Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
There is just as much reason to believe that FLAC sounds *better* than WAV as there is for the opposite. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
Yeah I read the review. Very disappointing. That JVC CD player was all the rage back in 1990. 17 years ago! I particularly preferred the McIntosh MCD7007 (using the highly regarded TDA-1541A Gold Crown DAC chip) over the JVC unit back in the day. The SB3, even in stock form, can stand up to virtually any consumer grade CD player made. The JVC was less than $1000 back in 1990, IIRC. The McIntosh unit was twice that amount. As much as I loved my now departed McIntosh MCD7007, I consider the SB3 at least tenfold superior to it. It's that good! -- crooner Customized dual chassis Super Squeezebox EAD DSP-7000 Series III DAC with HDCD and mods. VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
Also, while I don't doubt the Transporter is a superb piece of equipment, the lowly SB2/SB3 more than holds its own. Specially when modified and used with a top quality DAC, in my experience. I believe the person who wrote the SB3 review on Affordable Audio actually posted in this group asking for advice. -- crooner Customized dual chassis Super Squeezebox EAD DSP-7000 Series III DAC with HDCD and mods. VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
NewBuyer;226069 Wrote: A little digital attenuation might not be a bad thing these days, with the current trend of recording so close to the 0dbfs level (sometimes even exceeding it). I'm also told that hardware implementations (including recent upsampling dacs) that natively widen an input S/PDIF signal to 24-bit during the resampling/upsampling process, don't pass the same 24-bit input signal that was input - but instead will alter the bits. So send a 24-bit S/PDIF signal (from say an SB3) into such a device, and those 24-bits that went in will not be the same 24-bits that will eventually hit the DAC anyway. What the effect of this might be (if any), was never explained. Do you have any more information on this? As previously explained, any differences in the lowest 3-4 bits won't be detectable anyway - but I'd like to know where this story comes from -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
opaqueice;226094 Wrote: There is just as much reason to believe that FLAC sounds *better* than WAV as there is for the opposite. That's a good point - maybe we could witness the birth of a new myth! :o) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So, this new iPod Touch thing
Nils;226091 Wrote: Ideally, it would look just as nice as Apples interface for controlling music on the devices, but I guess that is a pipedream. Yeah, I think that's a good guess. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38195 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
I understand that a number of reviewers have criticized the SB3 power supply and suggest an upgrade to improve the sound quality from the analog outputs. I intend to stick with the digital output to feed a Benchmark Dac1. Would a power supply upgrade be worthwhile in this case? -- gdg gdg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1122 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
YesI run to an external dac and the bigger psu adds finess and delicateness [resolution is improved?] probabley the wrong term. If your UK based I can give you the detail of who to build one ...pm me -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
I don't class my self as an expert in the digital side of things and certainly not on the minutia of the sb3 . What I can hear if I turn the volume down using the sb3 and turning up the analogue volume to match the original volume, is a softening of the sound a little like a telescope going out of focus. I'd rather have the problems of the analogue vol pot without appearing to loss digital information. -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
Phil Leigh;226102 Wrote: Do you have any more information on this? As previously explained, any differences in the lowest 3-4 bits won't be detectable anyway - but I'd like to know where this story comes from Hi Phil, Most recently I heard this from GW Labs, which makes 'the excellent DSP upsampling device' (http://www.gw-labs.com/products/index.html) based on the CS8420 I believe. Digital volume control still works from the SB3 through this device, but apparently the 24-bits are not passing through unchanged. I guess technically this results in some kind/amount of distortion(?) but who knows what the audible effect is (if any). I don't notice any degradation whatsoever, in spite of their assurance that the bits are being altered. -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
Thanx dude, Unfortunately I live in Canada. -- gdg gdg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1122 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
NewBuyer;226124 Wrote: Most recently I heard this from GW Labs, which makes 'the excellent DSP upsampling device' (http://www.gw-labs.com/products/index.html) based on the CS8420 I believe. Digital volume control still works from the SB3 through this device (like with other upsamplers and with upsampling DACs), but apparently the 24-bits are -not- passing through unchanged. Sorry, am I missing something here? It's an upsampler. You can't expect the bits to remain unaltered during such a process. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
zanash;226123 Wrote: What I can hear if I turn the volume down using the sb3 and turning up the analogue volume to match the original volume, is a softening of the sound a little like a telescope going out of focus. Point 1: Nobody has ever suggested that the SB's digital volume control should be used for basic gain staging. Your experiment yields results which are not relevant in day-to-day operation. Point 2: How can you be sure that the change in focus isn't due to the fact that you're operating the analogue preamp at a different gain? All active preamps have slightly varying noise and distortion as you adjust their gain. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
Being an IT person (like others on the forum) I guess I am less scared of some of these digital processes. Upsampling doesn't destroy any information. (Downsampling might.) For example, if you have a photo sized 300 pixels by 200 pixels on computer, and expand it to 600 by 400 pixels, you do not destroy any original information. You just make it bigger. There are various ways of expanding the image. You could create 2x2 pixel blocks exactly corresponding to the original photo. In which case, the photo looks exactly the same, just as blocky, except physically bigger on the screen. Or, you could expand it using a dithering technique which interpolates values for each of the pixels at the new resolution, from values of pixels at the old resolution. Either way, no information has been lost (and I mean none, nada, zip, not a jot) and one may argue that a dithered up-scaled picture might be a more natural representation for the human eye. If it is upscaled in this way, and downscaled in a compatible fashion to the original size, you still get exactly the original photo. Exactly, I mean exactly down to the last 1 or 0! Try it. Repeat the process ten times, a million times. The end result is exactly the same as the original, down to the last 1 or 0. It's just the way it works. (I might add that if anyone claimed to *see* a difference in the end image, it could only be put down to a placebo effect :-p Ooh!) The issue for red book is that the original signal is encoded with a 16 bit word length. Upscaling involves no degradation to the signal, in fact might enhance it subjectively (but not in terms of its content of absolutely accurate original information, which remains utterly unchanged). And if this upscaling is done to a sufficient degree it means that subsequent volume attenuation might still not impact that information content - you still have the original resolution encoded in the signal. (This depends on the level of upscaling, and the amount of attenuation - which is why it's recommended to stay in the higher side of the digital volume range.) If you're not so familiar with IT concepts it sounds scary, but really it does work this way. Regards, Darren PS: Eiret, I'm glad your calculator agrees with me that upscaling from 16 bit to 24 bit multiplies the numbers by 256 :-) PPS: Anyone wanting to know how to check for computer files being bit-identical should google checksum. -- darrenyeats SB3 with Inguz - Sony DAS-703ES DAC - Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (home-made room treatments and supports) darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
PS: Eiret, I'm glad your calculator agrees with me that upscaling from 16 bit to 24 bit multiplies the numbers by 256 :-) Yes, the calculator agree approximately. There is a bit missing. I dont remember why. To day i had a wake up call at 11:11, its true. -- eiret eiret's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11521 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
eiret;226132 Wrote: To day i had a wake up call at 11:11, its true. LOL! Brilliant. Yeah, what happens is that 8 bits can represent 2^8 states (256). That means numbers 0 to 255 - since 0 is one of the states. So 8 bits can represent any number up to 2^8-1. 16 bits can represent any number up to 2^16-1 etc. Regards, Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 with Inguz - Sony DAS-703ES DAC - Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (home-made room treatments and supports) darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
darrenyeats;226133 Wrote: LOL! Brilliant. Yeah, what happens is that 8 bits can represent 2^8 states (256). That means numbers 0 to 255 - since 0 is one of the states. So 8 bits can represent any number up to 2^8-1. 16 bits can represent any number up to 2^16-1 etc. Regards, Darren No i had an other wake up call at 14:37 Regards, eiret -- eiret eiret's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11521 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
I believe the person who wrote the SB3 review on Affordable Audio actually posted in this group asking for advice. Yep, they did...but there are so many glaring factual errors in the 'review' they obviously didn't heed any of it. -- amcluesent amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
darrenyeats;226129 Wrote: And if this upscaling is done to a sufficient degree it means that subsequent volume attenuation might still not impact that information content - you still have the original resolution encoded in the signal. (This depends on the level of upscaling, and the amount of attenuation - which is why it's recommended to stay in the higher side of the digital volume range.) I'm very confused by this discussion. According to Sean the TP can resolve 21 bits, which means the last three are meaningless (and for the SB it's considerably worse). Rounding errors from digital attenuation can only ever affect the last bit. So what are we talking about? I think it's ordinary signal/noise logic, which applies equally well to analogue controls, that tells you not to turn down the volume too much. The digital stuff is a red herring. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
gdg;226118 Wrote: I understand that a number of reviewers have criticized the SB3 power supply and suggest an upgrade to improve the sound quality from the analog outputs. I intend to stick with the digital output to feed a Benchmark Dac1. Would a power supply upgrade be worthwhile in this case? Maybe. Some people have found it to make a difference, others have not. The most plausible hypothesis is that the RFI generated by the stock switching supply presents no problem for the SB3, but it can affect other components more sensitive to this RFI. I bought an inexpensive, linear, regulated PSU and could not hear any difference. YMMV. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
opaqueice;226140 Wrote: I'm very confused by this discussion. According to Sean the TP can resolve 21 bits, which means the last three are meaningless (and for the SB it's considerably worse). Rounding errors from digital attenuation can only ever affect the last bit. So what are we talking about? I think it's ordinary signal/noise logic, which applies equally well to analogue controls, that tells you not to turn down the volume too much. The digital stuff is a red herring. Interesting question and reflection. Maybe the digital volumecontrol stuff is a red herring. From an amateur audio filosopher point of veiw there was meaningful to mention that it is measurable mathematically, an decrease in audio quality when using digital volumecontrol. Even though you cant hear it. Thats how i express it after reading the guide linked in an earlier post. There are peaple that prefer analog volumecontrol and those who dont. The same with proffessinoal audio producers(both analog and digital). If the transporter have digital volumecontrol ? Maybe it is bechause the digital is good enouhg ? It would be fine to have a final conclusion : Does digital volumecontrol resoult in decrease in audioquality ? Is it just measurable mathematically ? -- eiret eiret's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11521 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
OK I'll have a go: No, properly implemented digital level control does not compromise or degrade audio quality in a way that a human being (not a calculator) can detect, provided that it is used sensibly - i.e.the level is not attenuated too much. For the SB/TP that means keeping the level within the 80-100 range and using analogue attenuation to make this your normal listening range. By the way, on the topic of upsamplers altering the bits - ignoring the 16 v 24 issue - it is possible that the lowest bit may be altered due to rounding differences - but the lowest bit of 24 is inaudible anyway!. One could argue that altering the 16th bit of 16 bit audio is also inaudible - but there is some debate about this. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
opaqueice;226140 Wrote: I'm very confused by this discussion. According to Sean the TP can resolve 21 bits, which means the last three are meaningless (and for the SB it's considerably worse). Rounding errors from digital attenuation can only ever affect the last bit. So what are we talking about? I think it's ordinary signal/noise logic, which applies equally well to analogue controls, that tells you not to turn down the volume too much. The digital stuff is a red herring. The comment about volume control was a last minute aside. (I must remind myself to stop making these last minute asides which screw up my main message!). And I agree, SNR is the real issue in practical terms. The main point of my post was to explain upscaling and why it isn't to be feared. Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 with Inguz - Sony DAS-703ES DAC - Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (home-made room treatments and supports) darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
zanash;226121 Wrote: YesI run to an external dac and the bigger psu adds finess and delicateness [resolution is improved?] probabley the wrong term. If your UK based I can give you the detail of who to build one ...pm me Hi, I am in the UK and would be interested. Best Ivan -- IvanSlade IvanSlade's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12094 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
desertrat58;226090 Wrote: I upgraded from an SB3 to a Transporter. The SB3 was very good for the price. But the Transporter turned my revealing, high powered system into a concert hall. Slightly off topic, but given that the data stream is digital, I would think the main difference should be purely from the DAC stage. Did you give consideration to putting your dollars into a DAC and using the SB3 as a pure codec? -- quietdragon quietdragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10412 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
Yes I did, but I decided I wanted a one box solution. Also the TP has plenty of inputs to use its DAC for other devices. Everytime I looked at external DACs, I had to use their coax input for the SB3, and then had no inputs left over for my DVD player or CATV box. The TP is its own player, and a fine external DAC as well. -- desertrat58 Transporter - Bryston BP25MC preamp - MK (R.I.P.) MPS 2510 active monitors + MK MPS 5410 subwoofer. Also a Sota Nova tt with Graham 2.2 arm Benz Ace HO feeding into BP25MC. desertrat58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9431 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
Phil Leigh;226103 Wrote: That's a good point - maybe we could witness the birth of a new myth! :o) It could lie right along side the extant myth about CDs copied to CDR sounding better than the factory pressed CDs. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
jeffmeh;226151 Wrote: Maybe. Some people have found it to make a difference, others have not. The most plausible hypothesis is that the RFI generated by the stock switching supply presents no problem for the SB3, but it can affect other components more sensitive to this RFI. I bought an inexpensive, linear, regulated PSU and could not hear any difference. YMMV. Everyone who does this assumes that the switching supply radiates more RFI than the linear supply that they are replacing it with. This is not necessarily the case. Without numbers you are just guessing. You may as well reverse the resistors in the SB and hope that the thing will sound better when you're through. But which ones? All of them? A few critical ones? One guess is as good as another. Maybe you need a linear supply AND reversed resistors... TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
BTW, how do you insert those quote boxes into replies? -- desertrat58 Transporter - Bryston BP25MC preamp - MK (R.I.P.) MPS 2510 active monitors + MK MPS 5410 subwoofer. Also a Sota Nova tt with Graham 2.2 arm Benz Ace HO feeding into BP25MC. desertrat58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9431 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital outs and volume control on SB3
From Slimserver Home page, Player Settings for {name} / Audio - DIGITAL
VOLUME CONTROL set output level to fixed
--
amcluesent
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
desertrat58;226182 Wrote: BTW, how do you insert those quote boxes into replies? That'll be the big button over there that says Quote on it :) -- Skittler Dave. SB3 -- Cyrus 8vs -- PMC FB1 Skittler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11280 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] foobar vs. softsqueeze for FLAC playback with ASIO driver
I'm a newbie. I'm experimenting with a similar problem to the original post (comparing sound between foobar using asio drivers and softsqueeze). I have a laptop with foobar2000 and softqueeze installed. My laptop is connected to my Outlaw RR2150 via a USB cable. The Outlaw has a built-in USB DAC -- the UAC 3553B DAC -- so effectively the amplifier becomes the laptop's soundcard). When using foobar2000, there is a large, subjective improvement in sound quality when using ASIO instead of the base USB drivers. I'm using ASIO4ALL with foobar2000 to achieve this, since I have no unique drivers for the USB DAC in the Outlaw (so I think in this case I'm in a different situation than folks with an M-Audio USB DAC for example. I much prefer the SoftSqueeze interface (and hope to buy Slim Device hardware in the future), so I was comparing the SoftSqueeze sound to foobar. On initial comparison, foobar2000 seemed to sound much better. I then tried to setup ASIO with SoftSqueeze, but in the Audio Mixer combo box I'm not presented with options to use ASIO. I see the 'Primary Soundcard', my USB option, my laptop's internal soundcard, and Java Audio Engine. Is there a way to enable SoftSqueeze to use ASIO4ALL (or any other ASIO solution) with my amplifier's built-in USB DAC? Is there a way to use the Java Audio Engine and set it up to use ASIO? -- weadley2004 weadley2004's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13109 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35321 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
Skittler;226196 Wrote: That'll be the big button over there that says Quote on it :) Jeez, can't say I ever noticed that button. Time for the eye exam... -- desertrat58 Transporter - Bryston BP25MC preamp - MK (R.I.P.) MPS 2510 active monitors + MK MPS 5410 subwoofer. Also a Sota Nova tt with Graham 2.2 arm Benz Ace HO feeding into BP25MC. desertrat58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9431 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
Hi live in the UK and bought this one from Russ Andrews. http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA0999099307228YFPFJNCLQVWBGKOH/product-SqueezePak-power-supply-for-Squeezebox-1810.htm Found a definite improvement although without doubt a tad expensive, but once youve bought it youve bought it! Bad wolf -- bad.wolf bad.wolf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12172 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
bad.wolf;226209 Wrote: Hi live in the UK and bought this one from Russ Andrews. http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA0999099307228YFPFJNCLQVWBGKOH/product-SqueezePak-power-supply-for-Squeezebox-1810.htm Found a definite improvement although without doubt a tad expensive, but once youve bought it youve bought it! Bad wolf You're replacing a switch mode supply with a switch mode supply? Now I've heard everything! TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
Dudes, an engineer/audiophile friend just informed me that the SB3 power supply isn't a problem at the digital output but it does radiate AC noise. I figure a decent line conditioner with dedicated digital filters should do the job. -- gdg gdg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1122 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
Oh come on, everyone knows that my power supply is the best. Why I built it i don't know, but it does make me feel better. It's got Italian styling , british components and guaranteed to last for ever. Cool. -- mudlark SB3CyrusDACXPreXvs260AKEFiQ7 cable Avondale server Kubuntu Feisty Fawn, linkstation for storage. DIY SB3 3A linear power supply. mudlark's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7151 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
gdg;226223 Wrote: Dudes, an engineer/audiophile friend just informed me that the SB3 power supply isn't a problem at the digital output but it does radiate AC noise. I figure a decent line conditioner with dedicated digital filters should do the job. A digital watch radiates noise too, but when have you heard anyone complaining about it? A linear supply radiates noise- look at the waveform at the rectifiers and explain how THAT won't radiate. It isn't a matter of does it radiate- everything does, it is a matter of how much it radiates. It is also a matter of how susceptible other devices are to that radiation. You're going to get a what, $500 line conditioner to theoretically counteract the noise made by a $5 power supply? In this context the guys who spend $300 for a linear supply for the SBs look downright sensible! TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
mudlark wrote: It's got Italian styling , british components and guaranteed to last for ever. Italian styling is cool. British electrics, perhaps from Lucas, god of darkness? ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
Pat Farrell;226228 Wrote: mudlark wrote: It's got Italian styling , british components and guaranteed to last for ever. Italian styling is cool. British electrics, perhaps from Lucas, god of darkness? I once owned a Ducati 350 so don't talk to me about British electrics being crap. The bike would do a good 90 plus but 30 was pushing it in the dark. -- mudlark SB3CyrusDACXPreXvs260AKEFiQ7 cable Avondale server Kubuntu Feisty Fawn, linkstation for storage. DIY SB3 3A linear power supply. mudlark's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7151 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
Phil Leigh;226156 Wrote: OK I'll have a go: No, properly implemented digital level control does not compromise or degrade audio quality in a way that a human being (not a calculator) can detect, provided that it is used sensibly - i.e.the level is not attenuated too much. For the SB/TP that means keeping the level within the 80-100 range and using analogue attenuation to make this your normal listening range. By the way, on the topic of upsamplers altering the bits - ignoring the 16 v 24 issue - it is possible that the lowest bit may be altered due to rounding differences - but the lowest bit of 24 is inaudible anyway!. One could argue that altering the 16th bit of 16 bit audio is also inaudible - but there is some debate about this. Well, OK - but an analogue volume control turned way down is also bad. The point is, there doesn't seem to be ANY real difference between analogue and digital volume controls, even in principle. In both cases there's simply an issue of S/N. Digital rounding errors - at least in the case at hand - are totally irrelevant no matter how much you turn down the volume because they're always less than the noise. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
mudlark wrote: Pat Farrell;226228 Wrote: Italian styling is cool. British electrics, perhaps from Lucas, god of darkness? I once owned a Ducati 350 so don't talk to me about British electrics being crap. The bike would do a good 90 plus but 30 was pushing it in the dark. Yes, but do Italians drink warm beer? The answer to why the Brits drink warm beer is Lucas refrigerators. I own a scooter shop, scootrichmond.com, I know all about Vespa and Lambretta electrics. The proper thing to do at night is to park your Italian bike and go drink wine in the piazza. Pat -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
And in once owned a scooter.. a triumph tigress 250. handled a dream but the engine was weak. i agree about parking the little buggers and having a gill. -- mudlark SB3CyrusDACXPreXvs260AKEFiQ7 cable Avondale server Kubuntu Feisty Fawn, linkstation for storage. DIY SB3 3A linear power supply. mudlark's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7151 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
The point is, there doesn't seem to be ANY real difference between analogue and digital volume controls, even in principle. opaqueice, I am interested in your meaning after reading the guide. If you have time, please read trough this section of this guide : Digital volumecontrols. http://extra.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Digital_volume_control A little quote form the guide :Disasterous distortion can potentially arise when a digital volume control is implemented Binary numbers, just like decimal numbers, do not always multiply and divide evenly. There are often remainders - extra digits that are a result of the multiplication. -- eiret eiret's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11521 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Affordable Audio review of SB3
Amazing how many sound difference can not be statically identified in the double blind test. -- abelincoln abelincoln's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12875 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
cliveb;226126 Wrote: Sorry, am I missing something here? It's an upsampler. You can't expect the bits to remain unaltered during such a process. Hi cliveb, More likely that I am missing something, instead of you! As I understood it, when an incoming signal to an upsampler or upsampling DAC is already 24-bit (like say a digitally attenuated signal from an SB3 S/PDIF output), there may be some amount of word length reduction done immediately prior to the upsampling and re-extension of the bit width by the upsampling algorithm or device. Outcome: Who knows! :) (I haven't noticed any audible result). -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3, best audio quality and sound level
eiret;226237 Wrote: Binary numbers, just like decimal numbers, do not always multiply and divide evenly. There are often remainders - extra digits that are a result of the multiplication. My point is very simple. Rounding errors like that can only affect the last digit. So the worst thing that can happen is that the volume-reduced result is off by an amount equal to half the 24th digit. On the other hand the last three digits are lost in noise anyway for the transporter (and it's worse for the SB). So the distortion due to noise is always at least 16 times the amplitude of the distortion induced by the digital rounding. Am I missing something? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Upgrade for SB3?
Lucky this thread went off topic early...history tells us this topic is hazardous to your online health -- peejay Music is what feelings sound like - Unknown peejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7046 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38271 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
