Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-29 Thread ModelCitizen

JJZolx;296628 Wrote: 
 Many people looking for a simple entry into computer-based audio have
 expressed feelings that the server software is the weakest part of the
 SB system and have sold or returned Squeezeboxes because of it.  How
 many users new to the SB and these forums have posted asking how to
 play music using WinAmp or Foobar instead of using the web itnerface?

Yes, but we now have the Controller interface (and it's pretty certain
that this is going to be licensed/ported to other handhelds that can
accept it). The vast majority of every day users will use that in
preference to a computer (and especially audiophiles who tend to be
older than the norm) . The Web Gui is becoming a secondary concern for
Logitech.

Uh.. just realised the Slim web site has changed.

MC


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Rc / Eq

2008-04-29 Thread darrenyeats

DRC in the bass would be nice.

Above the bass I see RC as a strategy with a kind of negative feedback
loop. The more you focus on complete correction the more likely the
correction might be distorted by random variabilty. I see this all the
time on FR plots done with impulses and mics, there is something like a
tooth comb pattern overlaying the general shape of the FR curve.
Correcting for these tiny variations is usually futile because their
exact position and size tend to vary on each measurement. That's just
FR, but RC tries to correct a lot more. Another way of saying it is
that IMO a lot of what is corrected by RC is in a fashion noise. As
opaqueice stated at higher frequencies there is a lot of chop and
change within small distances. It doesn't make sense to correct this
kind of thing at a particular point. That is why many RC systems allow
you to soften the filter so it works over a larger area but no so
starkly. My point is that this limitation is inherent to the DSP
endeavor - it isn't just a feature of implementations of DSP
technology.

That's why I like to use warble tones to do my FR curves. They smooth
the picture FR-wise, and FR-wise humans perceive the smooth picture and
filter out those random fluctuations.

That's why I believe there is no total solution possible with RC. It
can help, for some listeners, but I don't agree it is a silver bullet
that with enough work can cure all. In the bass it works a treat and
opaqueice wrote some explanations also as to why.

I am more for taking the 'natural' approach first. If that doesn't work
or isn't possible then DSP is the next port of call, by all means.
Darren


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-29 Thread ModelCitizen

JJZolx;296624 Wrote: 
 
 Functions as a CD player. +1
 Touchscreen. +1
 All in one ripping and database system.  +2
 Of course, it's a different paradigm, with some shortcomings compared
 to the slim approach.  Biggest is probably lack of multi-zone playback,
 but then again SD hasn't exactly mastered that one yet and few
 audiophiles are concerned with multi-zone.
 Lack of wireless networking. +10!  You can bet that will save them a
 massive amount of development and support costs (gathering from what
 we've seen at SD), as well as saving their customers endless headaches.
 If someone wants a wireless connection they can attach it to a WAP. 
 Very smart.  Of course the internal hard drive means that no network is
 even necessary.

Upon reflection I agree with all of this, apart from the zoning bit. I
don't pretend to understand NaimNet but the blurb about the HDX states
Streams to 6 StreamNet devices. 
The more I think about the HDX the more i think that Naim have got it
right and that it is far from flawed product. Considering their
probable target market as it stands at the moment it seems well aimed.
It is attempting to take all the hassle and geekness out of network
music.

Even I am attracted to dumping the wireless network and anyone who can
afford a Naim kit can afford an electrician to wire in the network
cable. I personally don't want a CD player or a ripper and would want
much bigger (and simply/cheaply upgradeable hard drives)... but then I
am comfortable with computers and technology (but not the time they
take up).

I don't really care what lossless format the music plays in as long as
tags are supported (and I see it supports flac anyway).

I'm interested how quiet the device is and how good the interface and
remote are. I've not found out yet, but it looks like the screen is on
the HDX (damn) and so presumably not on the remote, which is a flaw
IMHO.

My guess is that they'll produce a cut down version nearer to my
requirements in the near future.

I've attached a Naim to Dealer missive (which I probably shouldn't
have).

MC


+---+
|Filename: Naim's HDX (Retailer Info).pdf   |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4981|
+---+

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Radio quality ?

2008-04-29 Thread StigErik

Anne;296492 Wrote: 
 Hei!
 Yes, I see. P4 is certainly one LOUD station, but the sound seems very
 intimate, detailed, lively and there is a lot of ambience there.
Yes, *seems like*, thats the whole idea make it sound big on lo-fi
equipment, in cars etc.

Personally, I dont like this kind of sound - you get tired of it rather
quickly I think.

NRK Jazz is also one of my favourites, very good sound, even if only
160 kbps WMA.

Agree with you on the sound vs music comment. I dont buy the so-called
reference CD's with eleveator-type music/noise either. But - there is
a limit for what I can accept. When a radio station process the sound so
much that the music suffers, I just turn it off.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audio insanity

2008-04-29 Thread Mr_Sukebe

Interesting level of negativity on here, particularly so as I'm assuming
that no one here has actually head the system in question.

As for WAF, chances are that he's rich enough to have a dedicated
listening room that his wife never has to go in, so why not get the
best system he can if he has the dosh.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-29 Thread CardinalFang

I think they've pitched it right for the UK audiophile audience. No PC
to set up, no wireless streaming, in fact all the things that baffle
the audiophiles and make them shout but they'll be degradation as the
bits go through the air and get dirty all go away with this design.
The only gripe (apart from the price) would have been the 400G disk
space, but you can extend it.

The shame of it all is that the established names will come through
with products that make it a far easier purchasing decision for people
keen to empty their wallets of more money. They may not be as
innovative, or usable even, but they have the badge.

It's an expensive product for the audio bigots who will happily lap it
up. The transporter is no longer the high end for audiophiles, even if
it is the best.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-29 Thread darrenyeats

I am not part of the mass market. I'm typing this on a laptop running
Linux. There are plenty of people like me but I realise they are the
minority.

I like Slim Devices products because they tap into a home network and
data server that were already there for me. I don't need to pay for
things which I've already got (and I've got them because they are
useful in general).

On the audiophile side, the SD products are characterised as minimal
players which can be connected to my main rig. The total absence of
physical noise from fans and electrical noise due to moving parts is
very attractive to me as an audiophile. Such basic characteristics seem
to be lacking from other products and that pretty much disqualifies them
by comparison.

Just as the audiophile cognoscenti are reversing their hogwash about CD
players being inherently better than music servers (to the truth) a few
other audio sacred cows are going to get slaughtered in the medium
term.
Darren


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Rc / Eq

2008-04-29 Thread Mr_Sukebe

I'm going to sit on the fence on this and say it depends.
I've used a Behringer DEQ2496 in my system very successfully in my old
flat, but that was partly to do with the fact that the room in question
had a lot of issues.
In my new house, the listening room is clearly a lot better and I
actually found that the 2496 was detrimental to the sound, even with
everything disabled.

So I'm going to suggest that in a troublesome room, can work wonders,
otherwise it can be best without.

For reference, I had played a lot with the DEQ and found that the
auto-correction was particularly intrusive, and that a manual
correction to dial out too much bass was the least intrusive.  My setup
was dedicated CD transport  DEQ2496  External DAC  Stereo amp 
speakers.  So in theory, the DEQ was only taking in a digital signal
and spewing one out of the other side.  Quite how it damaged the sound
quality just by being in sequence, I've never understood.
I've also heard a full on TACT system, and prefered that with the DRC
out of the loop.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audio insanity

2008-04-29 Thread darrenyeats

Mr_Sukebe;296716 Wrote: 
 Interesting level of negativity on here, particularly so as I'm assuming
 that no one here has actually head the system in question.
 
 As for WAF, chances are that he's rich enough to have a dedicated
 listening room that his wife never has to go in, so why not get the
 best system he can if he has the dosh.
I view it more as an interesting experiment. I don't see it as pursuing
SQ in a way everyone agrees is best - if there were no domestic or
financial limitations I would pursue a different course, personally.
But I think hearing it would be educational. :)
Darren


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-29 Thread adamslim

ModelCitizen;296711 Wrote: 
 The more I think about the HDX the more i think that Naim have got it
 right and that it is far from flawed product. Considering their
 probable target market as it stands at the moment it seems well aimed.
 It is attempting to take all the hassle and geekness out of network
 music.

I agree in part, but still I think the server / client is where
everything is moving, rightly.  Naim could have provided a computer
that does the ripping, tag lookups, database, music server side, a
crossover cable and a 'slim' client that has the sensitive audio bit. 
Then geeky types like us could use our own PC system, saving half the
price.

All you need to do is package up EAC and FLAC, MP3Tag, the server, and
Firefox, with a UI into a silent PC.  Easy for consumers, and dead easy
for Naim - you're just splitting the HDX into two.  Offers a perfect
upgrade route too - Linn Akurate DS users can easily upgrade to the
Klimax DS without having to rerip or move swap HDs

ModelCitizen;296711 Wrote: 
 I don't really care what lossless format the music plays in as long as
 tags are supported (and I see it supports flac anyway).
 
 I'm interested how quiet the device is and how good the interface and
 remote are. I prefer the screen on the remote rather than the device
 but without wireless I gues this is not possible. The tie up with AMG
 is interesting. This is something I think Logitech should be looking
 into (for Reviews and Bios).

Be interesting to see if you can amend the tags.  For me this is
essential - I bet AMG is totally inconsistent with Classical music. 
And the screen on the device is rather pointless, although a nice idea!


-- 
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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audio insanity

2008-04-29 Thread opaqueice

Mr_Sukebe;296716 Wrote: 
 Interesting level of negativity on here, particularly so as I'm assuming
 that no one here has actually head the system in question.
 
 As for WAF, chances are that he's rich enough to have a dedicated
 listening room that his wife never has to go in, so why not get the
 best system he can if he has the dosh.

Did you even look at the link?  That's not a listening room - it's a
listening -house- (not to mention the yard).

As for the sound, well...  designing a crossover network to properly
integrate a six-way horn system like that is likely to be very
difficult.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audio insanity

2008-04-29 Thread adamslim

harmonic;291144 Wrote: 
 Have a look  at jean yves system  
 
 http://www.stereotimes.com/showreportces05page2.shtml
 
 http://www.aca.gr/pop_jyk.htm

OMG, digital active 5-way horns, driven by SET valve amps.  One can but
drool...


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audio insanity

2008-04-29 Thread Skunk

opaqueice;296736 Wrote: 
 
 As for the sound, well...  designing a crossover network to properly
 integrate a six-way horn system like that is likely to be very
 difficult.

Not to mention the time alignment needed to have the main horn sounds
arrive at the same time as the bass horns.

I'm in the 'give the guy a break' camp though. That could just as
easily be a $500,000 painting on the wall, or a collector's car in the
garage that never gets driven, both of which would provide much less
overall enjoyment.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audio insanity

2008-04-29 Thread Mr_Sukebe

Skunk;296772 Wrote: 
 I'm in the 'give the guy a break' camp though. That could just as easily
 be a $500,000 painting on the wall, or a collector's car in the garage
 that never gets driven, both of which would provide much less overall
 enjoyment.

Probably more importantly is the fact that we're guessing at how good
it can be and are trying to apply our existing knowledge and experience
on how it will sound.
As an analogy, valve amps should be rubbish as they really don't
measure well, yet somehow the Border Patrol and Wavac stuff I've heard
can bring me to tears with how good they are.

Another way to consider it is that just maybe he knows something we
don't, after all it's not that he can't buy a much cheaper system using
the ubiquotous 2 way floorstanders and brand X amps.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Rc / Eq

2008-04-29 Thread Phil Leigh

Just for the sake of balance - not wishing to start a fight or
anything...
1) I find my all-digital TACT 2,2XP transparent and highly listenable
and I am more than happy for it to do full-spectrum DRC.
2) You don't need to be very fussy about the correction curve IMHO. A
bit of gentle roll-off over 14Khz is fine IMHO
3) My big speakers still sound as big as ever...possibly bigger
4) a parametric EQ is not the same thing as DRC. Not saying there's
anything wrong with P-eq (used them for years in the studio) 
YMMV of course!


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get a quality balun in the UK

2008-04-29 Thread bigfool1956

I've got a new amp coming Thursday, and it has only XLR inputs. As I am
still very much a vinyl head, even if the TP has usurped my CDP for
digital, so my preamp is very much required (and loved).

Means I need to connect single ended pre to the XLR ins on the amp.
Boulder state that single ended can be used, which leaves me requiring
either an inline RCA to XLR single ended adapter or a similarly
configured balun.

I'm also unsure which would be best in this case.

Any thoughts and help would be appreciated.


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David Ayers
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get a quality balun in the UK

2008-04-29 Thread chill

David

Whilst this isn't the DIY forum, I don't think it is difficult to make
up the adapters that you need.  Hypex have a nice clear explanation of
the wiring here (http://www.hypex.nl/docs/wiring.pdf) - see the section
at the bottom right of the document.  All you need is a couple of XLR
plugs, a couple of RCA plugs, some decent cable and a soldering iron!

Chris


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get a quality balun in the UK

2008-04-29 Thread bigfool1956

Well I agree that it's trivial to make the appropriate cables, but
currently I'm using Nordost Valhalla interconnects, so what I really
want to do is drop a high quality solid adapter into the sockets on the
amp, and plug the Nordosts into them.

Mind you, in the long run I will probably get the Nordosts
re-terminated, as I suspect this power amp will be my last one.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Radio quality ?

2008-04-29 Thread tricka

Hi there

may I suggest you go to this site: http://classicalwebcast.com/
And in a shameless plug for all things Aussie :
http://www.abc.net.au/classic/ 
My second favourite is: http://www.radioswissclassic.ch/?lang=en

I must say though that while I have my online radio going alot for the
best radio experience I still prefer my FM tuner and the ABC. The sheer
variety of stations online is terrific and the quality will only get
better.

Cheers Tricka


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A Spoonful of Slow...

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get a quality balun in the UK

2008-04-29 Thread chill

Ah, ok then.  Neutrik make what looks like the right adapter, and you
can get it from Maplin online -
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=219905C=MaplinU=SearchTopT=xlrdoy=29m4

Chris


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get a quality balun in the UK

2008-04-29 Thread bigfool1956

Cardas make an appropriate adapter, and I've generally like their
product. Finding one in the UK seems to be tricky though.

I might go with the Maplin one as a temporary measure, assuming they
have a pair in my local store, or have a look at the local Digital
Village, as the DJ stores seem to do that sort of stuff. Trouble is I
need it quickly.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Songs you use for critical listening

2008-04-29 Thread pski

Phil Leigh;294742 Wrote: 
 True - however, the recently remastered version of Tres Hombres / ZZ Top
 is both classic rock and sounds great (to me).
 Also, most Eagles CD's sound rather good, and the recent John Fogerty
 album (Revival) is worth a listen. The recently remastered 1st three
 UFO albums sound great if you like heavier rock.
 Oh - and Masque by Kansas sounds superb to me!

Remastered UFO Dang!   I think we need a new base thread called
Look what I found It's sad that I had to learn about the new Jack
Bruce/Robin Trower from McPaper(but I'm glad I did)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet Sound

2008-04-29 Thread pski

I would also remind everyone to check the settings of your player(s.)

Since I have my receiver on a switch to a/b with the tv system, it was
easy for me to a/b/c with the sb3...

The sb3 was definitely poor. On checking the player settings, the
default lame settings were no limit and fast but dirty...

Since my library is alac, this made a difference after it was changed.

p


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-29 Thread opaqueice

darrenyeats;296720 Wrote: 
 
 On the audiophile side, the SD products are characterised as minimal
 players which can be connected to my main rig. The total absence of
 physical or electrical noise that is due to moving parts is very
 attractive to me as an audiophile. Such basic characteristics seem to
 be lacking from other products and for me they are disqualified by
 comparison.

Exactly!  As a paranoid audiophile, why in the world would you want a
player with a CD drive and two hard disks?  All those spinning
platters, all that electrical noise... what a terrible idea for a
supposedly audiophile product, especially when you can so easily avoid
it.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet Sound

2008-04-29 Thread JJZolx

pski;297063 Wrote: 
 I would also remind everyone to check the settings of your player(s.)
 
 Since I have my receiver on a switch to a/b with the tv system, it was
 easy for me to a/b/c with the sb3...
 
 The sb3 was definitely poor. On checking the player settings, the
 default lame settings were no limit and fast but dirty...
 
 Since my library is alac, this made a difference after it was changed.

Hmmm...

If I understand how bitrate limiting and the file format conversions
work, then ALAC would normally be streamed as Flac when Bitrate
Limiting is set to 'No Limit'.  Meaning that LAME isn't used and the
LAME Quality Level has no effect.


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Jim

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Songs you use for critical listening

2008-04-29 Thread kmr

Somebody already mentioned the Jim Keltner drum piece from The
Sheffield Drum Record - the other piece on this is just as good (from
Ron Tutt IIRC).  There's also The Sheffield Track Record which is
composer and soundtrack man James Newton Howard and a band in some
really well recorded rock instrumentals.

Barnstorm, Mother Says - terrific drums and cymbals.  Extremely well
recorded, especially for 1972.

Aimee Mann, The Forgotton Arm - produced by Joe Henry, this is a
marvelously live-sounding recording with fabulous guitar and drums.  A
heartwrenching tale but you can't stop listening.

Peter Gabriel, Passion - stuff he recorded for the soundtrack to The
Last Temptation of Christ.


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