Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Nu Force amp and pre amp on the way
The cool thing about the Sander amp is he offers a 30 day trial at users home, free of charge. So there is no risk to try them. For the Nuforce amps I am not aware of such an offer and here in Switzerland I don't know any dealer who have them. So I ordered a Sanders amp. Looking forward to try them... Christian -- Schindler Schindler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8461 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62326 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anybody have experience with passive preamps?
2) the hiss reduces with new valves then quite rapidly comes back (2 months?) Yes 3) the output impedance of the 2.5 is 200 ohms, the input impedance of VTL's own power amps is 100k Yes 4) hissing noise is not due to impedance problems IME - and according to the specs you shouldn't have a problem anyway if everything is working properly I don't know how to explain why it's OK in his system, but not in mine. 5) I suspect that you have a faulty resistor or capacitor in the pre-amp - or possibly a fault in the valve heater circuits. New valves cause a change in bias conditions but over time the underlying fault causes the new valves to deteriorate. I've seen this in valve guitar pre-amps. The problem is in both channels. It is unlikely the same fault would be in both channels. 6) It is possible a fault is damaging the valves - do you have an old set? - swap them out with the current set and see if the old ones immediately hiss. Not sure I understand you here. New tubes are OK for a while. Old ones hiss. 7) How does the hissing change with the volume and mute controls on the pre-amp? is the hissing identical on left and right channels? Volume control has no effect, so the noise is coming from after the volume control. Mute kills the noise. Both channels are identical. 8) You commented that the top end sounds rolled-off... but the specs say the preamp goes to 60kHz -3dB... that seems odd. I'm dubious of specs written like that. Three dB down from 20 to 20 KHz is not very good for a preamp. I really don't care what the unit does above 20 KHz. Besides, the tonality is not a problem. It is just not as extended as the DAC = amp configuration. I suspect it was designed that way to give the unit a warmer sound. I'm hesitant to send the unit back to VTL because: a) I suspect they would say I just need new tubes b) While it was being repaired, the amp speakers would be connected to the TV (I am outvoted on this). I wouldn't be able to listen to music. I'd have withdrawal symptoms. DTs, etc. Based on what you say, I believe I will contact VTL to see what they say. Thanks for the suggestions. I rather hope it is broken. It would save me the expense of upgrading. -- duke43j duke43j's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15911 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63739 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which headphones?
ok thanx a lot =) I'll just get an official replacement cable for my 600s I guess, I don't really believe in cables improving sound quality and the aftermarket ones I saw were ridiculously expensive. -- BlueScreenJunky BlueScreenJunky's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22725 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63677 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
duke43j;426889 Wrote: I've been doing some reading on this in my search for an external DAC for my own system. I believe that older DAC designs were very susceptible to jitter, and reclockers had a useful function in reducing the jitter before it reached the DAC. The more modern DAC designs that contain asynchronous rate converters are much more tolerant of jitter. That being the case, I believe a reclocker won't give you much of an improvement when used with a modern DAC. (I expect a loud chorus of replies with that remark.) Also, the older DACs were based on a resistive ladder approach which had linearity problems. The newer designs are based on a delta-sigma scheme and are much more linear. I would suggest you try a modern DAC such as the Benchmark or Cambridge Audio and see how it sounds. I think you will be quite pleased with the performance without an external reclocker. You could always add a reclocker later, but I don't think you'll find it necessary. I tend to agree, however I continue to read about SB users utilizing the Pace-Car re-clocker in conjunction with very high quality modern external DACs. Why would this be necessary unless the external DAC isnt effective at reducing the jitter it is being fed? Obviously marketing comes into play but whos marketing the re-clockers, or the DAC manufacturers? I realize too, that there is some real science at play here. According to the designer, my external DAC is measured at less than 1ps jitter (0.005% @ 10 kHz; 0.0038 @14 kHz; 0.002% @20 kHz); but what do these low numbers really mean? Does this mean that the DAC is reducing the jitter from the transport down to these very low specs? If so, I cant see the need for a re-clocking device (unless 0.005% jitter is audible). However, there appears to be some science (and marketing) behind the concept that a re-clocker can significantly improve jitter in devices like the SB3/Duet even when these devices are used in conjunction with external DACs. Can someone help me understand this maybe sort through the science/marketing? -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
timequest;427061 Wrote: I tend to agree, however I continue to read about SB users utilizing the Pace-Car re-clocker in conjunction with very high quality modern external DACs. Why would this be necessary unless the external DAC isnt effective at reducing the jitter it is being fed? Obviously marketing comes into play but whos marketing the re-clockers, or the DAC manufacturers? I realize too, that there is some real science at play here. According to the designer, my external DAC is measured at less than 1ps jitter (0.005% @ 10 kHz; 0.0038 @14 kHz; 0.002% @20 kHz); but what do these low numbers really mean? Does this mean that the DAC is reducing the jitter from the transport down to these very low specs? If so, I cant see the need for a re-clocking device (unless 0.005% jitter is audible). However, there appears to be some science (and marketing) behind the concept that a re-clocker can significantly improve jitter in devices like the SB3/Duet even when these devices are used in conjunction with external DACs. Can someone help me understand this maybe sort through the science/marketing? If we take the Benchmark as an example they publish specs showing that output distortion doesn't change as input jitter is increased. The take-home point is that the measurements (whatever you think of them) don't change when the input jitter changes. http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/system1/files/documents/DAC1.pdf Either they are printing drivel or you don't need a re-clocker. There doesn't appear to be a middle ground. I don't have a Benchmark and I've no plans to buy one so I've no point to prove. I'm just saying. :) Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Laptop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 SB3 / Rio Karma / Laptop - JVC UX-C30 / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
I ought to add, if you're worried about jitter, or worried that you should be worried, you can always just use the SB3 or TP standalone. That avoids the brain-dead S/PDIF interface without needing any clever and apparently controversial jitter-killing electronics. Less boxes too! ;) Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Laptop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 SB3 / Rio Karma / Laptop - JVC UX-C30 / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
darrenyeats;427088 Wrote: I ought to add, if you're worried about jitter, or worried that you should be worried, you can always just use the SB3 or TP standalone. That avoids the brain-dead S/PDIF interface without needing any clever and apparently controversial jitter-killing electronics. Less boxes too! ;) Darren All true - but unfortunately there is still jitter in the SB3 DAC (much less in the TP however...). I don't have the SB3 specs to hand but they are merely good - not stellar like the TP's. SPDIF is not the only source of jitter. Power supplies are also involved... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
darrenyeats;427085 Wrote: If we take the Benchmark as an example they publish specs showing that output distortion doesn't change as input jitter is increased. The take-home point is that the measurements (whatever you think of them) don't change when the input jitter changes. http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/system1/files/documents/DAC1.pdf Either they are printing drivel or you don't need a re-clocker. There doesn't appear to be a middle ground. I don't have a Benchmark and I've no plans to buy one so I've no point to prove. I'm just saying. :) Darren This is what I want to believe, that the jitter issue is resolved by using a good DAC with low jitter measurements. If this was simply the case however, then why would the minimum length of the digital cable necessarily be a factor; if the DAC would correct any jitter issues, why even worry about whats upstream from the DAC? Discussions regarding the importance of minimizing jitter in the digital cable (i.e.: lengths of 1.5 meters or more), or by re-clocking the signal before the DAC, leads me to believe there is more to the issue of reducing jitter than simply incorporating a low-jitter DAC. I would like to have a better understanding -- timequest timequest's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25640 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anybody have experience with passive preamps?
duke43j;426822 Wrote: Shortly after I bought the VTL I took it back to the dealer to try it in his system. The noise wasn't nearly as pronounced through his McIntosh amp and BW 800 speakers. I had to put my ear right up to the speaker before I heard any noise. From that demo I concluded that my preamp wasn't broken, but my system was somehow more sensitive to the noise (possibly a low input impedance of his amp vs. my 100 KOhm amp??). In looking for another preamp I've been shying away from tubes because of the noise problem I'm currently having. Going to a dedicated stereo system is not practical in my house. But I like the idea of trying an upgraded VTL preamp. It would tell me if I need to just get a better quality tube preamp, or move to solid state. From the comments you've given me it sounds like passive preamps are not for me. You mentioned the Ayre preamps. Can you describe their tonality (i.e. compared with your VTL or with other solid state preamps)? The Ayre K-xr is out of my league, but the K-5xe has a surround bypass and is within my price range. It really sounds like something is wrong with the pre-amp. How long ago did you check it at the dealer? An amplifier can deal with under or over voltage better then a pre-amp, do you know for sure that you have proper voltage and current at the outlet you are using? The VTL is a quality tube pre-amp and should work with just about any amp/speaker combination out there. Which is why I feel its something in your home or the pre-amp itself. Also do we know if the amp is OK? Did you take your pre-amp and AMP back to the dealer and listen to them on a pair of the dealers speakers. Can you isolate the pre-amp on another phase or with an isolation transformer to rule out any ground loops? Not being onsite seeing and hearing it, I am trying to think of anything it might be. Phil also raises some points that need to be verified/eliminated. Onto the Ayre K-5xe, it is an excellent SS pre-amp. It is very nature or neutral as in like its almost not even there in the system. Ayre sounds great with Thiel or Vandersteen speakers. Now the KX-R is the true meaning of a SS pre-amp that doesn't add, color, subtract, or do anything to the signal, the music just lives. I am seriously thinking about ordering one but have my eye on the new Vandersteen Model 7s. So if the K-5xe is in your price range that would be an option and have no concerns about buying a used one. But again, I think it at least pays to have the VTL checked/serviced and verify that the amp is not part of the problem. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, Vandersteen Quatro, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: SB3, GFR-700HD, Thiel 2.3, Second Boom Home Office: SB3, NAD C370, two VSM-1 Home Gym: SB3, Parasound Vamp v.3, Thiel PowerPoint 1.2 House Portable: SB3, Audioengine A5 Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Expedition: SB3, ToughBook iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63739 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
timequest;427138 Wrote: This is what I want to believe, that the jitter issue is resolved by using a good DAC with low jitter measurements. If this was simply the case however, then why would the minimum length of the digital cable necessarily be a factor; if the DAC would correct any jitter issues, why even worry about whats upstream from the DAC? Discussions regarding the importance of minimizing jitter in the digital cable (i.e.: lengths of 1.5 meters or more), or by re-clocking the signal before the DAC, leads me to believe there is more to the issue of reducing jitter than simply incorporating a low-jitter DAC. I would like to have a better understanding These are two different issues...the 1.5m cable is NOT to do with jitter, it's to do with reflections on the transdmission line... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why Reclock If Using Low Jitter DAC
Happy to toss in my 2 cents. I'm no audio engineer, but I'm a music lover, trained musician across quite a few instruments, and have played/orchestrated/arranged and listened to live music in a variety of venue types (which I recognize in an audiophile community is very common of course! I'm always humbled reading these forums!). What I can say is that to my ears (and a few others who have heard it) and in my particular audio setup the PaceCar2 reclocker has had a surprisingly positive impact. I've had it for almost 2 weeks as has been breaking in nicely. I use the Transporter, feed the PaceCar, SPDIF to a Meridian 568.2 (which I recognize isn't as good as today's 2 ch DACs of equivalent price or even lower as it's a few years old now, but very musical and impressive for a multi-channel processor when paired with quality cabling/power/etc.). I have it set up to do A/B comparisons between (1) Transporter's analog output (using it's internal DAC), (2) T's digital coax output using Meridian's DAC, and (3) Toslink out to PaceCar to Meridian. Frankly the comparison is almost silly to the point that it's a tad depressing switching back to (1) or (2). Listening to 24/96 music is truly a treat with this system. I don't have any personal experience with the Benchmark DAC or some of the top DAC's in the market today to know if the relative impact on performance would be the same or not, so just giving you all one data point. -- silverlight silverlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
