Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Just invited the boys at ComputerAudiophile General Forum last night... One stat I'll reveal - 100% male response. Would be amazing to get even one lady respond! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
ralphpnj wrote: Perhaps ZZJolx's mom will take the test but first you have to add some Skynyrd samples :) LOL Ralph. I'll remember that next time... :eek: Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Julf wrote: Interesting - that will test how good your masking is - if one of them figures out a way to tell the samples apart, they will all use that instead of actually listening (this based on a similar listening test I did over at CA at one point, that had to be stopped prematurely because one of the members spotted a way to tell the samples apart and posted it - that changes pretty much all the responses from that point on). Wow. That sucks! Not cool... Hopefully that doesn't happen. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Julf wrote: You do realize that if your test is successful you will probably be banned? :) Well... So be it if that is the case. How odd it is that in 2014, there would even be controversy in using blind testing to empirically explore thresholds of human perception. As if there's some kind of heretical thinking going on here ;) Speaking of heresy... I also left a response on the recent Audio Stream article by Mike L. defending Pono against the evil Guardian inviting a look at the test. Looks like Mr. Lavorgna is trying to play scientist / reader of scientific literature now. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] An interesting article on vinyl vs digital.
Indeed, I agree, overall a nice article. I like that little embedded video talking about the limitations of vinyl mastering. Indeed that RIAA curve is nasty and the old LP technology is full of compromises we have taken for granted with the freedom of digital. (Makes issues like jitter laughable!) I think the main message about reminding the vinyl lovers that -LPs are less accurate- than a -good -CD is an important one that is quite clearly based in fact. Even though I do not own a turntable any more, a number of friends have bought TT's in the last 3 years and I've had the pleasure to listen to some excellent vinyl rigs as a result. They can sound very good and obviously the experience of the physical object, playback ritual, and large artwork can certainly provide a different (and some would argue richer) experience. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101433 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Adam, Since your friend did the test on the Goldberg already, tonight I just did a null test on 'Bozza' and 'Vivaldi'. Looks fine to me with peak amplitude differences at -90dB or so for both. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Mnyb wrote: Should the results for goldberg be discarded if there is some kind bias aviable on some fora ? It can go either way ? but can it be relied on ? To counter this effect don't search to much on the net on this but simply take the test under natural listening konditions and contribute to the statistics . So if as many people as possible with a real intrest in the true result take the test honestly ,the result will be much better :) Good point... Let me know if you guys see postings which would clearly bias voters! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
adamdea wrote: If you subtract one file from the other, you would expect them to cancel out completely if identical. If they were identical down to the 16th bit, you would expect the -difference- to be limited to a signal at 16th bit level only ie nulling down to -90dB or so (the precise answer would depend on the sort of dither used.. Actually someone whose judgment I trust has confirmed a null with the harpsichord [no it isn't it's a piano- what was I thinking of?] track down to -98dB. Anyway I was not wanting to encourage cheating, I was simply wanting to warn Archimago that someone (on whose judgment I had better not express an opinion) was alleging that there was a problem with the downconversion. Thanks for the note Adam. Myself and the beta-testers did consider scenarios such as this. Surely you know we would try our best to keep the identity of the tracks hidden as best we could without invalidating the test altogether - fine line there but I think we did a good job... Therefore, indeed, it is possible for the null test to show unexpected results but that depends alot on other factors. Great to see the responses so far! Just with the FTP site, 120 transfers of the file already. I of course do not expect that many responses yet since there's plenty of time to listen, but I am impressed by the quality of responses so far and the variety of gear people are using! Clearly folks are not using junk gear to assess and the majority are spending time listing out for me what they use and subjective impressions. All will be revealed in time of course... Keep the responses coming! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
adamdea wrote: I have posted a link to this test (mistakenly suggesting that it is 16/44 vs 24/96 but i hope to be able to correct that) on Pinkfish. It has been suggested on that site by someone that the two files do not null to the expected level. *Archimago could you possibly check*. As a matter of interest what program did you use for the downconversion? Hi Adam. As others have indicated, it's supposed to be a listening test and I wonder if these members did the null subtraction analysis before or after filling out the survey response? There could be reasons why they're not seeing what they expect but I'm not sure we should be talking about this at this time... I'll certainly reveal all the technical details once the test is done including settings and program used for conversion and dithering. If this is the kind of discussion going on for a simple 24-bit vs. 16-bit test; could you imagine how impossible it would be to do a 44kHz vs. 96kHz test! :mad: Anecdotally, the other day I was reading the recent Stereophile magazine and I came across the HDTracks ad that said You will hear the difference (page 100). Firm message - as if it's that simple! Although they refer to up to 24/192 (arguable need for 192kHz of course), it's the kind of thing I hope this test will allow people to experience and (as appropriate), question. Good gradual accumulation of data I'm seeing. Hopefully people will stay honest and use their ears. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Pascal Hibon wrote: I just filled out the questionnaire... looking forward to the results. I have also posted the link on a Belgian audio forum and hope that many members will participate. Another interesting test would be to compare CD quality to high res material. Thanks Pascal! Appreciate it :-). The responses are coming in and it's good to see input from a number of countries in Europe, US, and as far out as New Zealand... Yup CD vs. high-res would be fantastic if there were only a way to ensure that it was done blindly. I can imaging maybe a Windows/Mac/Linux program where you could choose ABX where it would play 24/96 or 16/44 that's upsampled to 24/96 maybe so the DAC doesn't show the change in resolution? The whole thing could be packaged in an executable so it isn't tampered with easily? Anyone heard of such a thing? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Just put in an invite to Audio Asylum... Many audiophiles hang out there but it's not a big site either in terms of head count I suspect! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
foxx wrote: When I wrote 'spotted' I meant 'heard'. Certainly, I did take a look at file sizes and creation dates ... but those might be deliberately misleading. And I am missing more elaborate tools and the technical understanding to investigate any further. Indeed I was aware of those factors as well, foxx :-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
It's live :-). Simple question... Can you tell the difference between 24/96 and 16/96 (encapsulated in 24/96 container) audio? Is there merit to 24-bit even necessary for home audio reproduction? Thanks for some of you who participated on the beta test over the last week. Feel free to have audiophile friends give it a shot and let me know on the survey site! http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/04/internet-test-24-bit-vs-16-bit-audio.html Happy Easter everyone. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
BTW: Could someone invite Neil Young? Thanks. :cool: Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
JJZolx wrote: Most audiophiles think ABX testing is worthless. Why would they want to ABX these samples? It's like telling an atheist to try praying to some god or another and seeing if they get any results. I'm also not sure what exactly the point would be of encoding them both at 24/96 when many people think that the 96 kHz encoding itself is detrimental to sound quality. That includes many audiophiles who prefer 44.1 kHz. Good luck with this test. I imagine you'll get quite a few people who are already convinced that hi-res audio is a scam and will come back and confirm to you there's absolutely no difference. Wow... When did many audiophiles prefer 44.1kHz and think 96kHz would be detrimental!? Monty's well known page about 192kHz makes sense and certainly you can get some intermodulation distortion with that much overhead; but I think most reasonable audiophiles / engineers would consider 96kHz about the sweet spot for maintaining high quality and reasonable file size. The reason to keep at 96kHz is precisely because that is the sweet spot IMO and most DACs measure exceptionally well with that sample rate these days plus the effects of digital filtering is reduced compared to 44/48kHz given that extra octave. Well, as Wombat states, I do have a little more faith in humanity :-). My interest is *not* as a proof to the audiophiles. To be honest, the faithful are a small percentage and as you indicate, unlikely to change (granted I know I've converted a few of them to the dark objective side in the last year!). However, my sense is that those guys are diminishing as a group. Each year that goes by, I think their influence will diminish for many reasons I won't go into here. I'm more interested in opening up a discussion and an opportunity to the folks just starting to get into audio and the whole idea of high-resolution. For now, the ship has sailed. The test has begun, and it's great to see the detailed responses people have entered already. I hope this provides an opportunity for those who are not as technical to experience the difference for themselves and contribute to a body of data which can at least try to answer whether larger file size, and higher expense would be audibly beneficial. --- Yes, the reason I would not do an Internet 44kHz vs. 96kHz test is that it's way too easy to spot the difference. I have some faith in humanity; but not *that* much :-). The only way to try something like that is with controlled testing in one's home / listening room with test subjects. As for advertising on other boards, I encourage folks to pass the site around! I do go to other boards as well and over the weeks will put in similar posts like this one... I figure we have 2 months. So as not to hammer my FTP site, I figure I'll just let the visitors to the blog and this forum have the first crack at it! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TAS Reviews new Sony HAP-Z1ES player
Great discussion guys... I agree with Mnyb around the topic of measurements. Diffmaker comparisons which null out pretty much tells us if there's any difference at all. As for the idea of needing more and fancy tests, well, of course there could be things to try... For example, on my blog there's a suggestion to try 2fs (ie. 96kHz) jitter tests as opposed to the standard 24-bit/48kHz one I'm using currently. Hey, I'm sure that will show significant differences between DACs at 24kHz! Maybe a dog/cat can appreciate jitter up at that frequency... The poster suggests that this makes an audible difference with 24/96 music. I already have the test signal to do this but have not tried yet so will withhold judgment. Ultimately, it boils down to audiophiles (and the press) accepting that if we're really going to get anywhere, double blind listening tests are essential. Yet no magazine does this. If anything, audiophiles look for every possible angle to debunk or invalidate testing which is acceptable to every other scientific discipline I know of that deals with human perception or biological effect. Show me double blind test results where listeners are able to discern differences between DACs, cables, etc... AND where standard measurements cannot explain these differences. Then we can at least consider what other tests need to be devised because then we can say with some certainty that we're missing something. --- Ralph: I think you're right about the assessment on JA. While I appreciate his work on objective measurements, there is at times a clear bias as to how he interprets the results. Mediocre results from an inexpensive / not well regarded brand will get used to explain inadequacies. Mediocre results of expensive / well regarded brand / well advertised products often gets tossed aside as I can't explain why Mr. Subjective loved the sound... Perhaps it's exactly because it measures like this! (For an example, have a look at his conclusion of Audio Note's CD-4.1x CD player - awful noise floor, waveform reproduction, even terrible jitter.) JA is a businessman after all... Yes, always worth reading these rags with this fact in mind. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101003 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TAS Reviews new Sony HAP-Z1ES player
Mnyb: Yes, Channel Classics is deep into the audiophile hardware kool-aid. However, the recordings are still good and I can enjoy both the DSD and PCM conversions. Funny thing was about a month ago I E-mailed them that the 24/192 version provided no benefit due to use of Saracon (which they confirmed they used). The proprietor still felt 192kHz was better despite the lack of any content 48kHz. Oh well... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101003 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TAS Reviews new Sony HAP-Z1ES player
Good discussion boys and I don't think there is a need to fight over this either... Whatever works is fine. High-res formats are already capable of retaining accuracy enough for anyone's needs and the limitations of the recording studio. The issue here is nothing even close to measurable and audible differences between digital vs. vinyl! I agree with keeping the original modulation technique - Channel Classics albums started life as DSD with minimal studio manipulation I am told, so I'm happy to keep a copy as DSD files in my archives since that's the best they get. Based on objective measures though, I feel no harm was done when converted to 24/88 for the DACs that cannot handle DSD so I have that version on my LMS server as well (the PCM version also has the benefit of digital room correction). I think Mnyb has a point with too many formats though... It just fragments the market, confuses the consumer, and creates unnecessary disappointment. Despite the advertising push into high-res HRA, I truly feel that there's just not going to be much of a market because the average consumer will not hear a difference and move along... This is *nothing* like the obvious benefits of DVD vs. Blu-Ray if people are searching for an analogy. With a small consumer base (ie. obsessive audiophiles who want the best version of their favourite album), it makes sense to aim for standardization. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101003 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Excited about Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III
dhallag wrote: haha... good different or bad different? Well... That depends if you believe non-flat frequency response and harmonic distortion could result in euphonic outcome. They very well could and I certainly didn't think the DACs sounded bad. I didn't like the Eastern Electric MinMax tube stage as much as the solid state because the noise level was clearly inferior at higher volumes. The MinMax is interesting in that it allows mode switching and so allows the listener to judge for him/herself. In all seriousness though. I hope you enjoy the new DAC and tell us what you think! I haven't heard Jolida gear in awhile, the last time was 5 years ago on an Asian trip and whatever model tube amp it was sounded very good. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101342 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Excited about Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III
dhallag wrote: I also saw the Touch Transport numbers and I was so happy to see that there are no audible differences between USB/Coax/Toslink. (The more and more I learn about the Touch), the more impressed I am with this technology. So your point is sound on how the Jolida will handle Coax, Toslink or USB may make a difference. I don't know if I am going to actually have 192/24 music -- right now I only have one album here. Since the difference between 192/24 and 96/24 is ultrasonic, I don't see a need here. What I was really surprised about was the measurements of the Analog RCA Connects: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/measurements-analogue-rca-interconnects.html I figured there would be an audible difference and maybe to some it would, but based this, I imagine that for most, there isn't an audible difference. Overall, I am very happy to know scientifically that as long as you have a shielded cable, that's all you really need and thus no need to waste money on cables. Much appreciated the advise to read Archimago's measurements. A pleasure, dhallag. Many moons ago, I was very much influenced by purely subjective reviews and suggestions. I remember being entranced by the green CD pen, captivated by the theories around Peter Belt's remarkable foil, and all manner of audiophile tweaks... Yes, including the various cables; making and testing many of my own. But I did take to heart the suggestion to find out yourself during one of these forum debates - but of course not as the guy suggested (ie. spending ridiculous $$$ on buying and listening to crazy expensive power cables, USB cables, and the like to gather experience with the esoterica - that would never settle anything!). The blog in many ways is a personal testimony of that journey out of a purely subjective mindset using what I had around the house (an unused E-MU0404 as ADC) and software freely available on the Internet. While I don't claim authority in definite answers based on just the tests, I do insist during discussions and debates that the other side show me what evidence they have beyond vague impressions. I try to keep my mind open and am totally willing to change my viewpoint if there is reason and evidence. Now as for the Touch - yes, amazing technology for the price! Bar none the best value for the money I have spent on audio gear. The thing that really blew me away was when I tested that TosLink output with EDO firmware and discovered it worked with my ASUS Essence One DAC at *24/192*... I had never come across this before and I think this speaks to the quality of the parts and the design. Enjoy the hobby! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101342 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TAS Reviews new Sony HAP-Z1ES player
Interesting comment Firedog. I have not heard the Sony but will certainly give it a try when I'm next at the dealer. As one who has been buying SACDs since about 2001, ripping my SACDs since 2012, having played with PCM -- DSD conversions like with JRiver upsampling, and have some experience with the whole PCM -- DSD conversion process (see the 'post on my blog this week' (http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/04/analysis-comparison-of-dsd-encoders.html)), I personally do not feel DSD adds anything special to sound quality. A well done 24/96 (especially multichannel!) is as good as anything I've heard from DSD over the years... As suggested by the conversion results on the blog post, I'm quite happy with 24/88 conversions of DSD64. Accuracy is excellent so the math is good! In fact, mainly for convenience and space savings, I only bother keeping about 20 of my SACDs as DSD on my server mainly as demos for friends who want to have a listen. The rest I keep as 24/88 for streaming to the Transporter. I suppose one could argue for the high sampling rate of DSD (temporal resolution of things like impulse responses) and filter difference, I'm not one who has experienced or believe that they make much difference ultimately compared to a good upsampling linear phase PCM filter. firedog wrote: ... BTW, if you haven't heard a native DSD recording of acoustic instruments, you might be amazed at how good it sounds. I have a couple of native DSD orchestral recordings that simply are the best sounding recordings I've ever heard of a symphony orchestra. Period. Can you tell us which recording you're referring to here? I would certainly love to have a listen... Maybe even try resampling to PCM to see whether I hear a difference. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101003 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Excited about Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III
dhallag wrote: Here is a review and thread about the new Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III. http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?98652-Jolida-Glass-FX-Tube-DAC-III I've ordered one and wanted to share my excitement. Enjoy... I've hear 2 DACs with tubes. An Eastern Electric one switchable between tube and solid state and a Wrightmod Oppo BDP-105. Wondering what the tube-DAC-loving folks are hoping to achieve. I actually got a chance to measure the Wrightmod unit but never got around to posting the results... Mainly because I wasn't sure the measurements were done right or if there was an issue with that unit. The tube output stage certainly made things sound (and measure) different! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101342 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with Boulder Cable Mod
I have heard the power supply (or at least a similar Boulder supply) paired with a SB3 a number of years back before a friend sold it off. I could never tell a difference but of course the SB3's analogue out is not as good as the Touch. As a digital source, it would not make sense to me how this could impact quality of the digital stream out of the Touch. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need a little help from the experts...
dhallag wrote: - I'm running LMS on my QNAP NAS. That was my first change. Since I did that, everything seems to move faster -- the GUI on the Duet controller and Touch. Plus the songs load faster so I love this change. It's got a 1.6Ghz CPU with 512DDRIII so I believe that is powerful enough, yes? Looking at the QNAP site, it looks like the typical processor they use is something along the lines of Marvell's Feroceon 88F6282 at 1.6 GHz. This is a single core ARM processor. To get a speed comparison, if you look at the Linux BogoMips rating, this processor gets something like 1600. This is equivalent to about a Celeron M @800MHz. As you can imagine, that's not a high level of performance. Good to hear that 24/192 transcoding to the Touch worked ok through the powerline though which is good. However, it looks like there's not much extra headroom for simultaneous streams. You could also try taking out the Receiver and use SqueezePlay on the computer as a simulation of a second Touch to check for dropouts. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101270 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Worth reading
Nice! Interesting blog... Impressed that in the UK at least, there's some demand for accuracy and the UK Advertising Authority is calling on a ban of Sony's stair stepped ad :-) http://www.mcelhearn.com/sonys-web-content-claiming-high-resolution-music-sounds-better-than-cds-banned-in-uk-for-false-claims/ Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101257 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need a little help from the experts...
dhallag wrote: With the advent of more sources offering 96/24 and 192/24 offerings (HDTracks and Youngs new Pono music), I'm starting to have more music that is at least 96/24. The Touch has no problem handing the 96/24 and 192/24, but the SB receiver does --- it does play them, but I get a lot of drop outs. Yes, looks like the Receiver is your weak link... Some good discussion and suggestions already. However I am curious about the drop outs you speak of. What computer are you using to run LMS on? Is it too slow to do the real-time conversion of hi-res files thus causing the drop outs? Are you running wireless / wired? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101270 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
darrenyeats wrote: I hated every multi-channel experience I've had so far. But that's just my opinion. Having had some surprisingly immersive 2 channel experiences, it seems multi-channel is the wrong solution to a problem of flat-sounding 2 channel systems. As with everything, YMMV applies. Although a fantastic stereo recording with an excellent system could portray a great surround image, it's certainly not the same experience for me compared to discrete surround. With the latitude for more precise imaging and freedom from being at the sweet spot (and able to move/turn one's head without the 3D imaging collapsing!), I'd say it's a solution that outstrips the capabilities of 2-channel sound. Maybe not ideal, but the best one we have currently... As a practical observation, during demos for friends/family, I don't believe anyone has requested to go back to 2-channel stereo after hearing a good multichannel mix over the years. And of course, there are many multichannel mixes I detest and would prefer the stereo mix (eg. Neil Young's Harvest). Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
mlsstl wrote: I believe the same will be true if multichannel becomes the defacto standard. The urge to use trendy effects will be irresistible. The capability for improved realism will be considered far too boring for many recordings and we'll be back to where were are with CDs today and LPs in the past -- a small percentage of absolutely magical recordings, a somewhat larger number of horrid recordings, and a whole bunch of mediocrity. Nicely put! Of course, I doubt many of us believes multichannel will ever become a standard for music releases... I don't mind the funky surround effects if it fits the music (eg. electronica, pop) but that would be awful in acoustic music meant to be natural. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
jfo wrote: I have been checking out the AIX site. How are you playing the 5.1's? Downloading and burning to DVD? 5 options I see: 1. Author to DVD - but you would need to convert the surround sound to Dolby Digital or DTS. This would be lossy and lose the high resolution benefits. 2. Author to DVD-A - will handle native 5.1 24/96 with lossless MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) compression. 3. Author to Blu-Ray - like #2 above but will handle multichannel 24/192+... Could get expensive depending on media costs! 4. Play off your computer's surround analogue outputs to surround receiver/preamp - sound quality compromised with most motherboard sound but one could buy a better sound card. 5. (Best solution) Play off computer HDMI output to a surround decoder/receiver. This is what I do. foobar and JRiver recognizes my Onkyo receiver over the HDMI cable and will play the multichannel audio natively. I haven't bothered to author DVD or DVD-A for years. Blu-Ray burning would be a waste since even a single layer disk can store 25GB; too much for just audio unless you have something like 10 surround albums you want on 1 disk. The only thing I have not tried is playing multichannel DSD through my receiver which I think is not a good solution since almost all audio processing like bass management happens in PCM so a conversion step from DSD - PCM is almost assured. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
Mnyb wrote: Well should not audiophiles be used to boring :) see all this audiophile music . just this track or do you plan to have more tracks ? ( with more instruments ) . . the 16bit version , is the algorithm you use transparent ? So that you don't get false positives. A popular sub genre is server upsampling with weird fillter settings and claims that the sound is improved I'd love to add another track with some more instruments - an orchestral piece would be lovely... Again, I prefer something free. I'll see about contacting Mark W. about something from AIX. Ideally music similar to that Open Goldberg would be amazing as a piece of music that's easily available and (hopefully) recognizable as something accepted as high-resolution in origin. The dithering algorithm will be MBIT+ from iZotope RX 3. I find it transparent. It's proprietary, noise shaped and I've heard many pros preferring it to the usual TPDF... Although I suspect TPDF would be fine! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
Julf wrote: Proper dithering should do it. Absolutely - will use iZotope RX 3 MBIT+. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is this some kind of Sony magic?
Guys, I feel like we're in some kind of audio time warp... We rehash PCM 24/192 for the on-line world (DVD-A -- HDTracks) starting ~2009 We rehash DSD64 for the on-line world (SACD -- DSD64 downloads) starting ~2012 We now rehash the *super tweeter* in concert with the hi-res experience in 2014... I have a sneaking suspicion that this will all commercially fail much faster than the 1st time round in the early 2000's. At least back then things *felt* new with the hi-res formats giving genuine excitement and early adopters had a chance to experience it all for themselves. (Maybe Pono will be the poster child come end of year?) The only thing left after this round of push into high-res to squeeze as much as they can from the consumer with old music is to bite the bullet and admit all that really matter is how well music is recorded and mastered in the first place. Maybe then we can get somewhere fresh with truly high quality audio rather than DR7 HDTracks releases in 24/96... Of course I could be totally wrong and by this time next year, everybody and their grandma will be talking about how great Pono is, Neil Young becomes a billionaire, and Blue Coast Records expanding their DSD servers with audiophiles clamouring for more! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101223 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
Peiter wrote: I know music is a matter of personal taste, but man ... Goldberg Variations BWV 988 is borring. :-) Boring or not, I just want audiophiles to test if they can really tell the difference between 24-bit and 16-bit. (As many claim they can!) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
bz31 wrote: http://www.opengoldbergvariations.org/ Thanks for the input guys! Thanks bz31 for the Goldberg Variation suggestion... This looks and sounds very good. Furthermore, being public domain with good background on the provenance of the recording, I think this one would be a fantastic test case. Do you guys agree that a good acoustic piano recording which is available as 24/96 would be a good one to unleash to the public for a test of 16 vs. 24-bits. Note that I will upconvert the 16-bit version back to 24-bits for the test plus maybe a few tweaks to help disguise the files from simple 16-bit detector programs :-). Could be fun! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
Mnyb wrote: Mark Waldrep is his name . Free files http://itrax.com/Pages/ArticleDetails.php?aID=44 You probably have to ask if he would be cool with you resampling and redistribute . What can be sure of with AIX records is that the music is recorded in hirez at the source ie AD conversion and all editing is done in the highest resolution , some other offerings can have limitations in the chain somewhere analog for example . Edit : or some flavour of DSD can be a limitation , the SACD is at best 20 bits ( worse in higher frequency ) but some of the never DSD formats can exceed that and performs better . Thanks for reminding me about iTrax and Mark Waldrep. Might give it a go later after vacation with the family. I checked out Mark's Real-HD blog - lots of commentary on the last couple weeks of Pono coverage! http://www.realhd-audio.com/?cat=45 Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audioengine D3 mini USB DAC / headphone amp.
Mnyb wrote: Nice little thing , wonder how it would fare with squeezelite on one of those plug computer cubie boxes or RasPI or wandboard and whatnot , you may have to get an 3,5mm headphone to RCA cable buts that's trivial . That there is no need for extra drivers makes it promising for Linux support . I'll bet someone's already doing this but I've missed that post :) Yup. Good question. In a future post I'll put up some measurements of this thing being run off my Nexus 7 tablet. Given that this can be done with Android, no reason why not full Linux. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101194 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
Hi guys. Read something funny on TAS yesterday. So wanted to try another test... Can anyone recommend a FREE, well recorded piece of music which *should* demonstrate the superiority of 24-bit audio that I can chop up / manipulate / post for a future on-line audio test? Just don't want to run into any copyright issues... :-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need advice: Good FREE 24-bit music recording?
marflao wrote: Can't you use one of the free 24bit downloads at the 2L webpage? Or won't that work for your project? ;-) Btw.. many thanks for your splendid tests. I really enjoy them every time. Looking forward to the next one. Yeah... They're freely available but I doubt they'd be cool with me cutting them up, manipulating a bit, and posting them as test samples for people to download... I'm thinking of another blind test :-). Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101201 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audioengine D3 mini USB DAC / headphone amp.
Hi guys. Lots of chatter in the last while with the Geek Out and these small USB DACs starting with the Dragonfly a couple years back... Got my hands on the Audioengine D3 locally and wanted to check out the performance using a few different machines. Not bad at all given the USB power and all! http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/03/measurements-audioengine-d3-usb-dac.html Happy spring! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101194 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anomalies in Beck's Morning Phase...
Daverz wrote: Got my RBCD copy. It is very compressed sounding to my ears. Everything is at the same volume level. Other words that come to mind are flat, processed, and hashy. All this works against the ambience that the music seems to be trying to create. It's nice music, but I think a release like this would have sounded much better 40 years ago. 40 years ago would have been about Dark Side Of The Moon (1973). Clearly those old tapes have provided us with excellent quality remasters over the years. In time, if Morning Phase ever were to be reissued, I wonder just how much improvement could be had from those master digital files? And will it always look like ruined lossy audio in those 2 tracks? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anomalies in Beck's Morning Phase...
ralphpnj wrote: The moral of this story is quite simple: if there is no penalty for lying then why bother to tell the truth. *That* is the truth. What a joke... If Ludwig is to be believed that he mixed everything in 24/96, then he must have received *ALL* MP3-encoded masters for those 2 tracks. As I noted, that spectrum looks like 192kbps (and optimistically 256kbps) spectra. Seriously, there's no excuse for what the audio signal look like. It's not necessarily about how it sounds either but rather the fact that a poor resolution album is being sold at a prime price with claims of high-resolution. Forget the vinyl / analogue sound... Maybe Beck is so forward thinking that he specifically called Ludwig and wanted those songs to have the MP3 sound :) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is really affecting the sound transmission?
JJ77 wrote: ... Just listened to some Flac Masters from Linn /records at 44.1Khz 24bit. Although these are very good, The DSF converted files do sound more detailed and live to me (again they are not the same songs/recordings so very subjective.). I can really see where you have to decide on your own what is the best sound for you. I do like the DSD (DSF) files as you can convert them to any format you want and they sound good. If the conversion software develops to a higher degree, then possibly the DSF conversions themselves in the future will be even better?? Welcome to the forum JJ. As you know, there are many opinions out there in audiophile land. Many variables are of course involved in all of this that it's often difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff as the proverb goes. As a hobby, it's fun to explore the variables and come to one's own conclusion on things... I like keeping things as the paraphrase from Einstein goes as simple as possible, but not simpler. And I personally find that having some objective analysis keeps me honest with myself and what I think I hear. This is especially significant when we're dealing with directions the industry pushes on the consumer especially these days when what is offered as improvements enter into the realm of the most likely imperceptible. In this regard, I would suggest the good ol' rules of thumb in terms of sound quality and what affects it: Good speakers/headphones (hard to tweak these) Good room (potential to tweak or correct for) Good music (what it's all about!) I believe that essentially everything else makes a difference but I would advocate not wasting too much time on it if it takes away from musical enjoyment. Which CD player/DVD/streamer, DAC, amplifier, DSD vs. PCM, sampling rates above 44kHz, 16 vs. 24-bits, cables all have a *very* steep slope of diminishing return (especially those cables!) to the point where there's really no reason to get too excited over the stuff. Standards are high these days such that one doesn't need to have a millionaire's system to feel that you're not missing out. Furthermore, much of this becomes purely subjective at some point as well - for example solid state vs. tubes. Even if one hears a difference, the value of the difference is usually idiosyncratic to the listener - not really worth arguing about unless there's an agreed-upon sense of what is to be achieved. Regarding the DSD sound and conversion. Yes, a good DSD recording sounds good whether native or converted to PCM. There are volume level idiosyncrasies with DSD conversion such that one has to be careful that the conversion does not lead to clipping (this was an issue back in the day with the first batch of SACDs). Along with that is what to do with all that high frequency noise created by noise shaping. Some converters like Weiss Saracon (professional software, expensive) will characteristically filter almost everything 40kHz which means there's no benefit to PCM files over 24/88kHz (a good example is Channel Classics - do not buy the 24/192 files because there's nothing over 40kHz). Other software like the free KORG AudioGate will retain more of the ultrasonic content so 24/176 or 192 will look like there's stuff there, but it's noise. From my experience with JRiver, it's more like AudioGate in this respect. I don't think it matters for the most part unless high-frequency content causes intermodulation distortion with one's speakers or strains the amplifier into oscillation. Most DSD DACs will impose a low pass filter so I do appreciate Saracon for imposing the filter in the software conversion itself. We must remember that there are limits to DSD, just like any other format. Many folks (including myself) feel that there's no point to DSD64 (current typical 2.8MHz sampling rate) simply because technically it isn't significantly better than 24/96 PCM; and is probably less accurate. To convert from DSD64 -- 24/88+ PCM will lead to small rounding type errors. Furthermore, if you have a DSP process in there like room correction filters, these do not function natively in DSD so that conversion to PCM will have to happen. Bottom line is that the purported benefits to DSD don't seem to be significant when compared to the limitations. Companies would like to sell you a new DAC for the DSD feature of course! It's just one of those things that gets argued upon ad nauseum but unlikely anyone ends up feeling satisfied with. The fact that you liked the JRiver conversion without any tweaking is good enough evidence to suggest that the PCM version moves you. Enjoy :-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101113 ___ audiophiles mailing list
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anomalies in Beck's Morning Phase...
ralphpnj wrote: There is one simple fix for HDTracks to resolve this whole mess: HDTracks should just convert the 24/96 PCM tracks to DSD! Once everything is convert to DSD is it, by default, Audiophile quality - regardless of what any stupid graphs might show :) Nice one... Alas, that's not good enough. You must run it through a *TUBE* DAC, then ANALOGUE TAPE, then ANALOGUE CONSOLE, then a Meitner DSD ADC. Furthermore, you must ensure that this is all Cardas / Nordost cabling. The process must further be supervised by Cookie Marenco herself. ONLY THEN is it truly ripened enough for audiophile tastes... :rolleyes: Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anomalies in Beck's Morning Phase...
ralphpnj wrote: I believe that you almost have it but there are still two things missing: First you must copy the PCM files onto a Mac Mini then you must run it through a *TUBE* DAC with asynchronous USB, then ANALOGUE TAPE, then ANALOGUE CONSOLE, then a Meitner DSD ADC and then back to the Mac Mini via asynchronous USB. Furthermore, you must ensure that this is all Cardas / Nordost cabling. Now I think that we have all the latest audiophile buzzwords covered! Oi. Don't you dare forget COOKIE. Never forget COOKIE. ;) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile Buzzwords, Fads, Crazes, Hypes and other Quantum Matters
JohnSwenson wrote: I was actually IR laser light, this is a very important distinction. CD players (NOT DVD players) used IR light to read the pits, the particular green ink had a strong absorption to the IR wavelength used by the laser, which did cut down on some leakage coming out of the edge of the CD. That DID allow some CD mechanisms to track better, cutting down on the electrical noise generated by the tracking circuits. Note that in order for this to work it had to be the right ink that had good absorption to IR, not just any old marker pen. Many tests were done with the wrong ink. Now fast forward to DVD players used to play CDs (which is now predominantly the case). The light is now red, not IR, the absorption characteristic of the ink is different to red than IR and the whole optical system and tracking mechanism is VERY different. I won't going into all the gory details but the upshot is that most DVD mechanisms have a very different response to edge painting than the original CD mechanisms did. Not that there is NO response, but it is different. The spectrum of the noise is quite a bit different due to the very different tracking systems. The upshot is that edge painting can still cut down on noise with DVD players, but how much is fairly variable depending on the specifics of the mechanism. In addition the noise that is being affected is quite different, which means it will most likely be detectable by different people in different ways than was the noise from the CD only player. So trying the same treated CD in a modern DVD based player is going to give very different results than the same CD in an older CD only player. Because of the different tracking mechanism for DVD players, there are others things that make a much bigger difference than edge painting, primarily vibrations in certain frequency ranges, if you want to tweak DVD players playing CDs, THIS is the area to (pardon the pun) focus on. I don't know whether Blue-Ray players have the same issues or not, I haven't studied them in this regard. (I just got my first Blue-Ray player a couple months ago) John S. Indeed you're right about the IR with CD, John... However, I have never read anywhere that this actually worked to reduce errors. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101032 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anomalies in Beck's Morning Phase...
Thanks for the tip Wombat. It appears that there's more of an issue with Morning Phase than I originally thought beyond DR6! http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/03/follow-up-anomalies-in-becks-morning.html Sad... Really... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101068 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: High-Resolution Audio Expectations...
Daverz wrote: I have to say, I don't trust results with headphones, because of the way they tend to collapse spatial information. But then all that matters is the results on the equipment that you'll use for your own listening. That's an interesting common sentiment I hear especially with the folks on Audio Asylum and with the dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles. True, the presentation is different, but I've always been much more successful picking out details with a good pair of headphones. Without the room effects to contend with, consistency of sound is also maintained when I bring my pair of headphones over to hear a friend's DAC for example. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101052 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: High-Resolution Audio Expectations...
Daverz wrote: One will certainly pick up a lot of details on headphones, but I think you lose some other kinds of audible detail because of the way headphones interact (or don't) with the pinna. I'll try to do some of my own testing here by downsampling with sox as suggested earlier. Code: sox infile -b 16 outfile rate 44100 dither -s Yeah, give it a try... If you come up with a good track for us to A/B, please let us know! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101052 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: High-Resolution Audio Expectations...
Alright guys... Time to just put this out there now that it has been a few years since relative widespread availability of high-resolution audio in the form of HDTracks and such. The recent Beck album is an important example of concerns around the wastefulness of these high bitrate files being sold. But IMO, likely of no audible benefit at all. 'HRA Expectations' (http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/03/musings-high-resolution-audio.html) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101052 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile Buzzwords, Fads, Crazes, Hypes and other Quantum Matters
Greening the edge of CD's was all the rage around the time I first got some $$$ to buy audio stuff. Start date: ~1990 Reason for the buzz: Some vague theory about stray red laser light bouncing around the polycarbonate. An article in ICE (International CD Exchange) apparently. Green supposed to absorb it. Buzz kill: These things never die, right? Crazy SACD girl Theresa Goodwin even wrote something around this in 2009 for Positive Feedback (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/green_pen.htm). End result: CD rot? Delusional disorder? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101032 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Would You Replace a Transporter With?
It will be a sad day when my Transporter dies :-( In late 2012 after the announcement that the Squeezebox was discontinued, I managed to buy a used Touch. This is the unit I did all the tests on last year. Well, I put the Touch away back in its box in storage yesterday since I still have my old SB3 for general streaming in my living room... I figure, when the time comes, it'll be the Touch -- DAC (maybe my TEAC UD-501). Let's hope it's a long time from now ;-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Does It Take To Turn The PC Into A Hi-Fi Audio Platform ?
Nice no-nonsense article... The kind of thing you'd expect from computer geeks ;) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101023 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Philips Golden Ears Challenge!
Nice ones Stephen and Wombat... :-) Wombat: Boy I hope you didn't have to do a day shift the next day if you went to bed after 0400! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100964 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Would You Replace a Transporter With?
Julf wrote: With an active repeater that regenerates the signal, yes. But a normal USB cable shouldn't be longer than 3 or 5 m. Correct, standard USB should not be longer than about 15-20 feet. An inexpensive active USB extender like the one I wrote about can connect to my TEAC UD-501 at full USB2 speeds for DSD128 and 24/192+ - I've tried up to 50 feet with good Cat 5e cable as in the description with no noticeable audio degradation. ' USB-Ethernet Cable Extender' (http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/12/measurements-usb-cable-extension-with.html) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look And Listen to the BW Nautilus...
Hey guys. Had a listen and got a chance to photograph the Nautilus last weekend... Good pair of speakers but the design is clearly showing its age. Don't know about you folks, but I'd never get my wife to accept such a contraption in the home :-). http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/02/musings-saturday-am-b-nautilus-listening.html Check it out if you have a chance! Would love to hear of other impressions on this iconic speaker. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100962 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look And Listen to the BW Nautilus...
darrenyeats wrote: I wonder if the dynamically compressed recordings as a reason for the fatigue was a bit of an excuse. IMO dynamic compression is not welcome at the mastering stage, it's different to reality ... but that doesn't mean it's -unpleasant- per se. A well sorted system should be informative, yes, but part of informing is the listener taking an interest - think infotainment! Also, taking modern recordings as a whole, Daft Punk's RAM isn't the harshest by any means? Yes, I do agree that dynamic compression itself doesn't necessarily lead to fatigue, but my feeling is that it is in general something that contributes to the sensation. My feeling has always been that a good system be neutral tonally and transparent enough to convey the lowest audible detail. I do believe the Nautilus system was able to do this. However, the music is what it is! Tracks like the disco-tinged Give Life Back to Music off RAM has a lot of high end energy and when mixed with those synthetically sharpened auto-tuned vocals, adds to the perception of fatigue for me in whatever system I listen to. While a DR9 isn't bad for the track (or for modern pop productions), I can't help but feel that the squashing of dynamics just adds to the treble overload. Sure, those sizzling trebles sound great in my car and cheap headphones, but on a superb system... Not so much IMO. Don't get me wrong though... I love Daft Punk. I would not necessarily change the production. Just that I find it more tolerable for longer term listening when I roll off the highs with an EQ from about 10kHz in the main system :-). And in the context of the Nautilus, I wonder if those trebles excite ringing in the aluminium tweeters... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100962 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look And Listen to the BW Nautilus...
cliveb wrote: IME extreme dynamic compression does indeed render some music unlistenable on good quality systems. It seems to me that revealing systems do exactly that: they *reveal* how bad the mastering is. Examples: Some years ago I noticed that Coldplay's XY sounded pretty ropey on our main system, but acceptable on an iPod. And recently my wife bought Night Visions by Imagine Dragons - it sounds absolutely *horrendous* on a decent system, but when I put it on my laptop to investigate why, I noticed that it sounded much less objectionable via cheap headphones through the laptop's on-board sound. I loved the band 'They Might Be Giants' in university. One of the most horrendous uses of compression I came across was back in 2001 when they released the single to Boss Of Me (theme from Malcolm In The Middle). I was horrified by how unlistenable that was with some decent Denon headphones I had back then... Of course it was only years later that I figured what was going on. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100962 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look And Listen to the BW Nautilus...
cliveb wrote: Thanks for your impressions. The Nautilus is a legend, and deservedly so. Being a 20 year old design is no barrier to good performance. Remember that some people think that the best speaker in history *ever* is the original Quad ESL - which came out in 1957. Regarding your comment about those thin speaker cables - 16AWG is perfectly adequate for audio signals. Audiophile fashions come and go. While today's dogma is for massive think cables, I can recall back in the 1980s when there was a faction who reckoned that speakers should be connected with very thin single-core cables. (And I'm sure we all remember that crazy period when Litz wire was de rigueur for hooking up speakers). Hmmm, I'll have to look for one of those Quad ESL's to have a listen :-). That's exactly why I took a picture of the speaker cable connection. Extreme bigger is better cables are unnecessary other than the bling factor. I noticed folks poking around afterwards surprised by how thin those cables looked; I'm sure thinking if bigger gauge may have improved the sound! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100962 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Philips Golden Ears Challenge!
Hey guys, I didn't post on this last week when I brought up the 'Philips Golden Ears Challenge' (https://www.goldenears.philips.com/en/index.html) on the blog. But I have been contacted by a couple folks on here who took the challenge and earned their Golden Ears :-). I don't think he'd mind me mentioning it - Wombat for example got the job done with his Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic and Sennheiser HD-590 headphones... Good show! Curious who else took the challenge and with what gear? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100964 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does an audiophile Squeezebox (digital out only) exist now?
Fantastic info. Thanks John. BTW: Are you running room correction software on these? Curious what plugin... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100850 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Shilling for Dollars
darrenyeats wrote: I pondered upon your comments and then I looked through Stereophile's measurements on DACs with interesting results. See my post here: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=151401 I hope you don't mind me name-dropping you! Interesting post Darren... Interesting extrapolation of John's comment. However, I really don't know how reasonable it would be to extrapolate those monotonic cascade of harmonics with these DACs which as you indicate are down in the -100dB and below range! Tube amps have 2nd order harmonics at something like -40dB which is orders of magnitude louder in comparison... Furthermore, those graphs in Stereophile are with input impedances of 600-ohms off the DAC. This is of course way lower than the typical preamp in the tens of k-ohms. I'd love to see DBTs demonstrating ability for people to differentiate decent DACs when volume controlled. Until that's demonstrated, it's hard to put much weight in whatever theory there may be for euphonic vs. dysphonic gear. Show me the piece of steak exists first... Then we talk about how it tastes ;-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99360 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does an audiophile Squeezebox (digital out only) exist now?
John, which Wandboard are you guys basing the CSP design off of? Duo, quad? Thanks... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100850 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Synergistic Research Tesla T2 SE, T3 SE, PowerCell 4!
Peiter wrote: Unfortunately I did not save the link to that discussion. As I recall I found that forum via a link on Your homepage. No prob... I'll keep my eyes peeled. Looks like something the inmates at the Audio Asylum would be discussing. Just curious what brands they'd be claiming to be superior for audio. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100883 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some publications at least make an effort to keep a semblance of honest ; -)
cliveb wrote: IMHO he's regurgitated a number of dogmas loosely based on a distorted understanding of the facts. And at the end he says he doesn't know why hi-res sounds better than CD, when he has a trivial method of finding out. All he needs to do is take one of his beloved hi-res files, whack it through a decent sample rate converter (eg. SOX) to convert it to 16/44.1, and then ABX the two. He'll find that he will be unable to tell the difference (at normal - or indeed anything less than insane - listening levels). In a sense, this kind of audio journalism is more dangerous than the sort written by the outright loonies, because it seems reasonable to the rational but uninformed reader. But, but, but... Neil Young said 24/192 was needed to liberate the music... And that we were going to be, like, hearing the music for the first time! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Synergistic Research Tesla T2 SE, T3 SE, PowerCell 4!
Peiter wrote: Archimago, keep on your good work. I'll refer to your pages when possible ... The other day, I read on a forum about the importance of the Network switch when streaming digital audio. Some was convinced that Switch A was a lot better sounding than Switch B Thanks for the note Peiter. Wow... Switches eh? Do you have a link to these discussions? I noticed at least a comment tonight on AudioStream addressing the desire among readers for measurements... Yup, step in the right direction after all those purely subjective cable reviews and fringe stuff like the Synergistic Tranquility Base. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100883 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Synergistic Research Tesla T2 SE, T3 SE, PowerCell 4!
Here you go... Measurements of an Oppo BDP-105 using one of audiophileland's valued company's products. I'm just amazed at the kind of attention Synergistic / Ted Denney gets at various supposedly respected places on the Net. Fancy power cables indeed... http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/02/measurements-power-cable-redux.html For more of Denney's musings, check out this article of his to hype the new Galileo line: http://www.synergisticresearch.com/featured/galileo-series/ Mildly entertaining... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100883 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Synergistic Research Tesla T2 SE, T3 SE, PowerCell 4!
SBGK wrote: Can you prove your measurements are relevant to how something sounds ? As I said in the article, the system can detect the slightest differences like the minimal phase filtering effects (eg. TEAC DAC filter settings)... I personally cannot hear significant differences between say the default settings of SoX filtering options for minimal vs. linear phase upsampling. I believe the system is significantly more sensitive to change in signal than my threshold for hearing (male, 42 years old, little very loud concerts in life, office job). Since people have different hearing acuity, I cannot of course prove it does or does not sound different to any specific person; as much as I cannot *prove* whether the guy I ran into yesterday was actually abducted by aliens as he claimed... What I can say is that within the limits of the system, there's not electrical change from the DAC and that lack of difference correlates to my (and my friend's) experience in listening to these cables (and with other tests I have done over the year). Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100883 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Synergistic Research Tesla T2 SE, T3 SE, PowerCell 4!
Julf wrote: Indeed - it is the problem of proving that unicorns don't exist. All we can say is that it is extremely unlikely that they exist. Further to this, it really should be upon the believer of said unicorn to provide the evidence of its existence. Certainly before one starts charging tickets for admission to see the beast :-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100883 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Synergistic Research Tesla T2 SE, T3 SE, PowerCell 4!
Mnyb wrote: Yes indeed aka Russels teapot (that is in orbit somewhere between earth and Mars disprove that if you can ) . Archimagos measurements are imho below whats considered human thresholds for hearing buy a very wide margin . If you can silence your room that much to get actual acuety below -100 dB in a room you will start to hear the blood in your own ears as in an anoic chamber . People have done experiments mixing in jet engines and marching bands in the last bits of CD quality audio and no one can hear that . Archimago measures below that ... Figured you'd enjoy this one based on previous discussions... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100883 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Clowntime is NOT over
SBGK wrote: or maybe you guys are wrong and the rest of the world is right. Is that a possibility ? Of course it's a possibility. Just not likely based on well understood science and the fact that the science was used to create our electronic gadgets and the lack of evidence for many of these beliefs. I do however wonder what you mean by the rest of the world is right. Suppose I take a $500 3' length of AudioQuest Diamond USB cable and go to the following places to talk about how this cable is the best sounding interconnect I've heard: 1. Rocky Mountain Audio Fest - Most there would likely be OK if I said this was the best USB cable known to man; the exhibitors might even show me a few they think superior. 2. My non-audiophile coworkers, friends, wife (ie. most of the world) - responses would range from indifference, cautious curiosity - really!, or perhaps some eye-rolling from those who have some concept/experience with how digital transfers work - really?. Most people will likely have some inkling that I'm probably one prone to conspicuous consumption for spending so much money on something they got for free with their printer. 3. Steve Hoffman music forum, home theater (eg. AVS) forum - some support but I'm sure a bit of disapproval. Nasty arguments not uncommon. 4. AES (Audio Engineering Society) Meeting - I'm not likely to make many friends among the professional organization if I keep talking about expensive audiophile products like this unless I were handing them out free. 5. Hydrogen Audio forum - I'll likely get banned or at the least asked to produce ABX test results. Don't do it, man... So... What do you think the rest of the world believes? I'd be cautious suggesting the rest of the world sides with commonly accepted audiophile beliefs. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100783 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Clowntime is NOT over
darrenyeats wrote: $500 USB cable is foo, therefore all audiophile claims are foo? Surely, Darren, you know exactly the kind of foo-lishness we're talking about... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100783 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Clowntime is NOT over
Interesting discussion boys girls. Posted a little something on Audio PCs this week for the blog. A few months ago, I think it was Mnyb who suggested I have a look at one of the audiophiles' cherished products. Managed to track one down :-). Look for some interesting pictures and results in the next week... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100783 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Clowntime is NOT over
castalla wrote: Ahem - it's the love of money actually. As I said earlier it's a sort of wealth distribution - there are better ones, but that's for another argument. Yup... Love of money... The point I think still applies (perhaps even more so for the snakeoil salespersons). Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100783 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DEMO: What a poor USB cable sounds like...
Found a really crappy piece of USB cable from the turn of the century :-) A demonstration of what a poor USB cable sounds like to demonstrate the effects of digital errors with an asynchronous USB DAC like the ASUS Essence One. Also a look at the jitter test... http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/01/demo-measurements-what-does-bad-usb-or.html Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100780 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Kellen wrote: My RMMA results gave me final noise level at -106.1 but I am talking about the screenshot which shows information down -130+ like with your Touch screen shot in your blog being showed underneath here. I wonder about these very low readings that are passed the EMUs skills. 15474 http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurements-logitech-squeezebox-touch.html Those are the EMU's skills :-)! As you see, there's a peak at 60Hz correlated to the AC mains hum (maybe also things like the Touch's screen refresh rate). That's down at -115dB. When the program reports dynamic range it will base the limits of the hardware off that even though for some (most) frequencies the noise floor is lower... That's why I also post the graphs rather than just the numbers so we can look at which parts of the spectrum is affected. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Using Cat5e USB Cable Extender - does it worsen jitter / audio quality?
darrenyeats wrote: What about here http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurements-logitech-touch-as-transport.html for 24/96? You have different results for RCA and cheap RCA. Good point. Fair enough :-). That was a demonstration of noise getting into the DAC from an unshielded RCA cable not meant as a digital coaxial interconnect. I guess it's best to say that so long as there's adequate shielding from noise in a non-galvanically isolated digital interface and bit perfection is achieved, there should be no differences... As a reminder, even though the cheap RCA cable demonstrated higher noise floor, the difference was really small and can be bettered with just a decent inexpensive generic coaxial cable! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100653 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Kellen wrote: And many of my thanks go out to you, Archimago. I did the loopbacks test and got each of noise and dynamic range @ -112db. My thinking is this reading is the best the EMU can perform at, no? If so, how can it show my Touch testings @ -130db as it does? Is it a guess work on the EMUs part? Should I only be satisfied with tests on gears no better than -112db? Yes, that -112dB is essentially the limits of the EMU. Remember though that this is through the whole 20-20kHz range and that the device is better (probably about -120dB) from 100Hz-10kHz which covers the frequencies our ears are most sensitive to as per Fletcher-Munson data. Should we be satisfied with -112dB noise floor? IMO... Yeah :-). I'd love to hear a piece of recorded music needing 100dB dynamic range, and none of my friends seem to listen in their home anechoic chamber! You should try running that Touch measurement again. No way it can do -130dB from 20-20kHz. If you're measuring the analogue output, you should be getting about -105dB with 24-bit audio. This correlates nicely with what John Atkinson got in the Stereophile measurements using much more expensive pro equipment. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Using Cat5e USB Cable Extender - does it worsen jitter / audio quality?
darrenyeats wrote: Right but a reasonably intelligent and well educated person finding something -implausible- does not constitute fact! Not long ago, it was a fact that digital transports and cables couldn't make a difference for DACs, until Archimago got his measuring stick out. Just a note to clarify what the results show: 1. Yes, transports do make a difference. Small changes can be found between the Squeezebox units and laptops mainly in the extreme high frequencies... I suspect this is the result of timing differences with the -synchronous- SPDIF interface and my old adaptive isochronous USB DAC. This effect goes away with asynchronous USB DACs (ASUS Essence One, TEAC UD-501). 2. Digital cables -by themselves- do not seem to make any difference - TosLink, coaxial, USB, HDMI all measure the same for me (obviously so long as the digital data isn't being corrupted). Theoretically, extremely long cables could cause timing errors but I haven't seen this with a 12-foot length of plastic TosLink (2x6' connected with plastic optocoupler) or 25-foot poor quality coaxial SPDIF. Of course, my billionaire playboy friend Keaton Goulden-Eyre III subjectively heard differences ;-). I'm still looking for the opportunity to borrow some expensive cables to try from the local audio store but have not been down there in a few months now... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100653 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Stratmangler wrote: Are you still using the noisy SMPS supplied with it? A decent quiet PSU lifts the performance levels considerably, at least it does in my experience. I've used both over the past year... Borrowed a friend's linear power supply about 6 months back. Interestingly, I didn't notice much difference in terms of ADC measurements so for the purpose of the testing, I just stayed with the switching PSU. This could make a difference listening with the DAC I suppose but I didn't get a chance to test that bit at the time. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Kellen wrote: I solved the stereo crosstalk problem by interchanging L-R RCA's. Now, measuring -103 dB and getting excellent rating. Was thinking would this EMU and RMAA combinations be good to measure power amp performances? That's more like it! And you'll (likely) see that the stereo crosstalk correlates nicely with interconnect quality with improvement using balanced cables as well. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Kellen wrote: Was also wondering just how accurate the EMU is because on some of these graphs it is showing levels way low like -130dB. If not accurate to these low levels does it make wrong the results? Merci. This has been accurate in my testing. The noise floor varies depending on the frequency and usually, what I have seen is that the EMU's ADC noise floor is excellent from 100Hz to 10kHz ~-130dB with some noise susceptibility lower down and above. Less susceptible to noise as expected with the use of balanced cables and equipment. For example, no problem at all measuring the LSB of a 16-bit signal as demonstrated here: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/07/measurements-dac-waveform-peeping-903db.html Easily measure below -96dB... I estimate that within the 20Hz-20kHz range, the EMU's limit is around -110dB with reasonable confidence. This is the level the Transporter and TEAC UD-501 measure using balanced interconnects. All the best with your testing Kellen! I encourage everyone with a decent ADC to give testing a try :-). Run a few experiments and find the answers for oneself and see if objective results correlate with subjective impression. Share your results with us - especially if you're hearing/seeing something surprising! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Kellen wrote: Wow, this is awesome stuffs. I also have a EMU 0404USB which I have used for years to record stuff with my band. I never thought to use it to measure like you are here. I think I will download the RMAA software and do a test on my Touch. Just for interests sake. Hi Kellen... Yup, give it a go! The EMU 0404USB is quite a remarkable, flexible device! I wish Creative improved the driver (on occasion, I get unexplained crashes switching sample rates for example) but it's a discontinued device. The ADC hardware seems quite capable and it's not difficult at all to get reliable results when used in testing. I'm sure there's a bit of variability as well... A quick note if you give it a try. For my unit, I notice the right channel is slightly more noisy than the left 10kHz (below -100dB so IMO still very good) so I tend to use the left channel more or average the results if possible - especially for those jitter spectral analyses. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Using Cat5e USB Cable Extender - does it worsen jitter / audio quality?
mintaudio wrote: I find your blog very interesting.. keep up the good work. I doubt it would be very popular over at 'Computer Audiophile' though! Smopular popular :-) Doesn't matter really... The interesting thing is that even if there are lots of disagreements and gnashing of audiophile teeth, I'm just showing folks what I'm finding beyond just subjective opinions - I hope this kind of evaluation of gear takes hold out there or at least gets readers thinking and questioning... Thus far, despite my invitations for links to disprove my findings, I haven't seen anyone present alternate objective findings! I think that's telling :-) Have a wonderful 2014 everyone! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100653 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Using Cat5e USB Cable Extender - does it worsen jitter / audio quality?
Probably the last measurement for the year :-). Let's see what adding a 50-ft Cat5e cable extender does to the DAC's audio output... If USB cables are *that* important, surely this should ruin a few things like worsen jitter substantially, right? Measurements with my -asynchronous- TEAC UD-501 DAC. http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/12/measurements-usb-cable-extension-with.html I want to thank you guys here on the forum for this past year! It's been fun posting up some measurements and getting the blog started :-). Hope you all had a wonderful 2013 with the Squeezeboxes and all the best for 2014! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100653 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is your personal philosophy as an audiophile?
Hey guys... Just thought I'd share what I'm rocking these days. Still lots to do in the sound room - very bare walls and the rug's taking its sweet time in arriving! Nonetheless, lots of fun putting the pieces together and loving what's coming out of my good 'ol Transporter. Have a wonderful Holiday Season everyone... :o http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/12/musings-look-at-sound-room.html Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98057 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone used this... AudiophileOptimizer
Mnyb wrote: Good ! But for the sake of discussion , if you tested this program and got the usuall null result . There would be next program and the one after that and so forth. That test with completely different OS and computers still outputting the exact same thing is a good indicator of how any off those program's would perform existing or future ones. Beyond getting quality hardware if you are using and internal soundcard and setting the PC for bitperfect audio . There is not much you can do , and with USB just make sure things are bitperfect . In general, yes, you're correct. Unless there's a reasonable explanation why things should sound different, I really think there's no point chasing these software optimization tweaks if the interface is known to be bit-perfect. As far as I can tell, software players are not able to substantially affect jitter (have not seen any objective results to show this despite claims from questionable sources). Shutting down processes / lowering CPU utilization may reduce noise from the computer so that could be a good thing. However, it's better to find a hardware solution or shield the audio devices from the computer, fix ground loops, etc. if this is a problem! Ironically, extreme audiophile music players like JPlay tend to lower the use of data buffers leading to higher CPU load thus worsening the potential for creating more interference. Maybe some people like this and happily pay for the privilege :confused:... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100440 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone used this... AudiophileOptimizer
Mnyb wrote: I would,suggests that Archimago has the equipment and the vervital to test this , but I doubt he will . He has done similar products, so one more ?. And by the reason I jut gave that there are endless flawed ideas for every correct one it would be endless work to follow every weird audio idea out there . Yeah... As per this post back in April: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-laptop-audio-survey-apple.html Using a decent DAC with an asynchronous USB interface device (CM6631A - same interface as the newer Schiit DAC's) , I was unable to measure a significant difference between Mac (OS X) vs. Windows 8 computer. As such, I cannot imagine what would lead to a significant difference if I were to install this software but running Windows Server 2012 on the same hardware as my Win8 computer! Getting a full version of Server 2012 isn't cheap and it's not exactly the kind of OS optimized for multimedia applications! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100440 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can Transporter play this
Yes, 24/88 plays great on the Transporter... I have a bunch of DSD/SACD rips in this format so having this feature is a must for me. If the Transporter did not handle this sample rate well, I would have likely moved on! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100465 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone used this... AudiophileOptimizer
Wow, looks like you need to also buy a copy of Windows Server 2012 to get this to work (assuming you're not running it already). Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100440 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is your personal philosophy as an audiophile?
Pneumonic wrote: Given that not one of us has - identical systems, setup in the same room, with the same music being played - any subjective comparison on what any us can or can't hear lacks a true reference and is nothing more than an exercise in futility as it is nothing more than a un-winnable I hear this, you hear that battle. In the absence of such reference many people use science, or maths, or measurements as a reference point since it's the only way to bring into the fold some element of objectivity which can be referenced by everyone. As for me. It boils down to this: If I can hear it, and measurements suggest I shouldnt be able to hear it, then I believe that what I hear may be real or imaginary but I side with imaginary and wonder if I should go see my shrink. If I can hear it, and measurements agree that I should be able to hear it, then I believe that what I hear is real and I grab another drink. If I can't hear it, and measurements suggest I should be able to hear it, then I change up my system. If I can't hear it, and measurements suggest I shouldnt be able to hear it, then I grab another drink. What the hell... Grab a drink anyways! :cool: Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98057 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is your personal philosophy as an audiophile?
heisenberg wrote: I was very saddened when I discovered that I can't reliably tell whether the music playing is from a 320 kbps mp3 or from a lossless source. Hence, I'm not into chasing after 24/192 -- like you've said, a complete overkill. Like Mnyb said, do not be saddened by this. I have yet to find a single person who I can verify as passing an ABX between 320kbps and lossless WAV/FLAC when the music is encoded with a good encoder like a newer version of LAME (I've tested about 10 audiophiles using combination of headphones or speakers)... Looking at the audiophile sites, one gets the impression as if this is some common feat! When I did the online MP3 test on my blog earlier this year, I know that some very outspoken members of other forums got the result wrong so I know for a -fact -that they're unjustifiably confident and just plain -wrong -about their self assessment. Of course this is not to say nobody can tell a difference, just that I think it's extremely -rare-. Knowing this fact for oneself is a sign of honesty and integrity IMO. I agree, no need to chase after overkill. As I've expressed in the past, I'm happy to have 24/96 as the limit of what I would bother to download (even if I buy 24/192, it's almost always converted down to 24/96). At 24/96, there's really ZERO possible audio information missing for human ears assuming one is even concerned about brickwall issues with 44kHz sampling. As for DSD, I see it as an interesting toy. I've written about it including PCM -- DSD128 upsampling and I find it sounds different, but the effect is like any DSP that can add some euphonia / body to the sound IMO. Still can't get myself to honestly believe there's anything special with DSD that cannot be captured with good PCM. I'm still unhappy about the DSD file format - useless old DSF DFF - poor tagging and compression capabilities; what a waste of storage. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98057 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is your personal philosophy as an audiophile?
jimbobvfr400 wrote: I did however have some older MP3 files (that I've since replaced with FLAC) where I could tell an immediate difference, or at least I think I could? I really do think Lame has been improved quite a bit in the later versions, either that or I was an idiot and couldn't use it properly. Exactly. I had some old stuff back in the day encoded with Xing MP3 in 320/256 and clearly the quality was inadequate. I suspect that many old timers in audio may have built their impression based on these old encoders or just listened to 128kbps and from then declared to everyone just how inferior MP3 is. The above would be a more diplomatic view. I suspect what's more sinister is that of expectation bias that tossing away bits *must* result in bad sound! and most people do not really test it out for themselves. Even worse are folks like Neil Young who make ridiculous statements about how MP3 throws out 80% of the data and other such objective drivel apparently believing that his ears are somehow golden. Maybe he can hear it, who knows... I wish I could place bets against him doing it though ;) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98057 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New HDMI Guest Review Measurements...
Mnyb wrote: Thanks again for the measurement part . Hdmi has been accused of horrible jitter in it's implementation ? And there are probably some not so fantastic implementations out there especially older ht amps . Can you see any of that in this Onkyo amp ? What's the spectrum using spdif or toslink at the same amp , I can't remember if this amp has figured in any of the other parts of your epic measurement series . This will ofcourse not change the fact that all functioning hdmi cables will yield the same result . But hdmi vs spdiff could be interesting . This is ofcourse another question than the one you tested . Btw is it really possible to make satire about these guys :) they do work as described using equipment who's noise and distortion behaviour ( tubes and or other cargo cult designs ) that definetely have the possibility to mask any subtle differences that could exist . This is actually to some extent possible , you can infact hear subtle differences even if you use speakers that are far from linear compared to the electronics ,but at moderate levels good speakers are not that bad . But it would not exactly help to drive these speakers with amps that barely can handle them :) to further ad insult to injury many cult speakers are designed to be used with said amps ? In reality the deviate from good contemporary speaker design to be able to use these amps !? 2 wrongs does make 1 silly or what ? Hello mnyb. Glad to see you guys enjoying Keaton's kontribution. The man's old but crafty :cool:. Yes, I did test the Onkyo relatively fully back in this post: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/10/measurements-onkyo-tx-nr1009-as-hdmi.html The HDMI jitter actually was fine in comparison to SPDIF coaxial and TosLink! In fact, it was better than coaxial and about equivalent to TosLink using the little CM6631A device for USB-to-SPDIF conversion. This is a bit of a surprise since the asynchronous USB CM6631A is usually quite adequate and relatively low in jitter as in previous measurements. Of course the jitter spectrum isn't as good as with the Transporter or TEAC stereo DAC, but it's quite reasonable and miles better than something like the distortion one sees with NOS DACs when doing the J-Test. Not to mention tube gear which would likely just drown out the signal with noise. I wrote a bit on HDMI and jitter in that post as well... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New HDMI Guest Review Measurements...
ralphpnj wrote: Thank you so much for presenting a clear and very reasonable introduction and review to this wonderful new product. However I do have a few questions which I feel are very important. As you know the new audiophile standard for listening to computer based audio is the Mac Mini - USB - tube based asynchronous USB DAC - tube pre-amp - tube power amp, at least according to the golden eared gods at both TAS and Stereophile. Now the Mac Mini does have a HDMI port so clearly the the Quantum HDMI Squeezer + ULTRA Cable set up would be ideal except that so few audiophile DAC's presently have HDMI inputs. So my two fold question is a) what DAC's presently feature HDMI input and b) are there any plans to bring the groundbreaking technology of the Quantum HDMI Squeezer + ULTRA Cable to a USB cable?? Please, please, pretty please!! Thank you Ralph for your inquiry. 1. The gods are correct. TAS and Stereophile are written by gentlemen of distinction who are genetically devoid of earwax and hearing loss. I of course run a custom HDMI DAC because I'm worth it and could afford to hire one of the chief digital consultants at Integra, Meridian and Esoteric to design the circuitry and Nodko-san to have his boutique Japanese workshop to realize the device with point-to-point soldering using fine silver wire and hand selected/individually heard components. The gods are aware that HDMI is best, just that we in the upper crust will not release this Truth yet. In a couple years, when asynchronous USB becomes -pass�-, TAS and Stereophile will surely speak more about HDMI when the general populace is ready. Consider my article a peek of what is to come. For now, everyone else will need to use their low-end HDMI receivers or something pedestrian like the NAD M51: http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m51-direct-digital-da-converter 2. As in my interview, those quantum resonances are unique to small connectors and especially micro-HDMI. In recent E-mail exchanges with QuantaVibes, I do believe they will be -trying -to recalculate the equations for micro-USB! It looks like USB users could very well be in for some fun ;). This could be especially wonderful for tablet users! Thank you for the interest... Yours humbly, Keaton I. Goulden-Eyre III Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New HDMI Guest Review Measurements...
Greetings. True to his word, Keaton Goulden-Eyre has reviewed another set of cables for me... Along with some HDMI cable measurements... Enjoy :-) http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/11/guest-review-measurements-quantum-hdmi.html Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100321 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Amazing USB cable breakthrough!!
Nice one Ralph :-). Taking the creative writing class again, eh? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100230 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Amazing USB cable breakthrough!!
ralphpnj wrote: The sad part is that what we all readily see as a complete farce is most likely not that far from reality. So in reality I'm right the cutting edge of high end audio marketing. Now all that is needed is a very serious review by of the audio clowns. :rolleyes: Although I'll be heading off to Asia again for business very soon, I've secured my friend Keaton Goulden-Eyre III for an upcoming review. Apparently something cutting edge he's supposedly working on... Should be good. I'll post a notice here when the blog post goes up. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100230 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: PCM-to-DSD Realtime Upsampling/Conversion Effects...
Hey guys, Been away for awhile on vacation and general summer merriment :cool: Anyhow, life's busy but found some time to have a look/listen to the realtime PCM-to-DSD conversion process found in JRiver MC19. As usual, details on my blog... 'PCM-to-DSD Upsampling Effects (JRiver MC19 Beta) ' (http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/09/measurements-pcm-to-dsd-upsampling.html) Cheers! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Haven't been through the forums much... Lots to do over the summer to worry about audio! However, I managed to borrow one of these units from my brother-in-law to check out. So... For those who may have wondered what a current low end digital streamer measures like in terms of analogue out and as TosLink transport, this one's for you: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/08/measurements-wd-tv-live-look-at-and.html Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Hello guys... Been away for a little while. In any case, managed to put something up from some measurements I did a few weeks back. Thought I'd try out one of Stereophile's digital tests which they've been doing for ages! http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/07/measurements-dac-waveform-peeping-903db.html Still on vacation ;-) Hope everyone having a good July! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
