Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
pippin wrote: > Chuck Norris can hear jitter. > > Nuff said about it. Chuck Norris' system doesn't have jitter. Jitter is afraid of Chuck Norris. JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Daylight Robbery!
dennis55;287225 Wrote: > Wishing to upgrade from SB3 to Transporter i have looked around various > sites for a price...here in UK the retail is about £1250+. > Slim Devices advertise it for $1999. > Prices listed on the Slim Devices website are US dollars and exclude taxes (VAT), any applicable import duties, and freight. Certainly you were planning to pay VAT if someone bought the product for you here in the U.S. ;-) -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45764 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Virtual Dynamics Power 3 � 2000% Profit Margin
GuyDebord;284074 Wrote: > Without mentioning costs like marketing, representation, distribution, > etc. Suddenly the 15 dollars of components are worth so much more, > arent they? The rule of thumb often used by most analysts is that for the average high-tech company MSRP is generally 3X product cost. (My wife used to work in Investor Relations, so I cribbed this from her). This means a $99.99 product from a high-tech company is assumed to cost about $33 to build. By this rule, a cable with $15 product cost should retail for something closer to $45. Since I work for a publicly traded company in the high-tech sector, I can't comment on the validity of the 3x number. She was pretty adamant that the analysts used it across the board in estimating product costs and that they felt it was pretty accurate, at least for typical high-tech companies. FYI, in the world of products, gross margin % is calculated as: Gross_Margin$ / Total_Sales So for $15 cost and $300 sell price, the gm% is (300-15) / 300 or 95% gross margin. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45323 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD Player as DAC recommendation?
Phil Leigh;281785 Wrote: > Stage Height? Isn't that a measurement of how far the band was above the floor of the concert hall? I think the proper measure (here in the U.S.) is a unit called "inches". The stage height can be determined by sampling the floor (careful of the spilled beer) and using an analog device called a tape measure to determine the height of the stage, expressed in inches. This measure is especially important in punk/deathcore/rage music where stage diving is popular. Not compensating for stage height can lead to severe facial distortion, especially if you don't have a big crowd at your gig. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42020 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A photo of your Squeezebox setup (please)
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 Question: Should there be a new forum for photos? - yes - no - maybe SteveCresswell;237642 Wrote: > Here's my setup. > > Home designed and built 6AS7 retro 50s style "George Jetson" push-pull > valve amplifier > Fostex single driver speakers and Squeezebox 3. > > Beresford TC7510 Mk6 DAC can be seen below Squeezebox. > > Steve What I want to know is how much impact do you get from the bowl of bananas? Does other fruit produce a wider soundstage? I would think oranges (or other citrus) would provide real "danceability". Just curious... -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audioengine5 - how far?
pablolie;235684 Wrote: > They are quite bassy. I have them placed 15 inches from the wall on a > low table. I bought a subwoofer thinking I'd need bass support, but no, > they reach down with authority. Try it out, they seem quite resilient to > positioning. Very capable, user friendly and amazingly cost effective > little things - I am a huge fan, and 2 people that have listened to > them were "what?" and already bought theirs. I can't imagine what these > guys would put together if their were to design a $2,000 speaker next. I love the AE5's I am using. Well designed, great sound for the money, and handle a wide range of music types very nicely. People are always amazed when they hear them. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39300 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to provecables areworth money
opaqueice;235411 Wrote: > I probably know him. > > I think the thing to remember here is what Darwin taught us. Our > ancestors had to have a very good intuition for human-scale classical > mechanics - like predicting the trajectory of a rock through the air. > If they didn't they died. And in fact we're really, really good at > that (think baseball). But there's no reason we should have a good > intuition for anything else, and in general we just don't. > > Physics is weird and non-intuitive, and the only way to understand it > is to approach is carefully, systematically, and mathematically. It's > very difficult to communicate it to a lay audience without simplifying > it to the point of basically lying. I'm actually going to be giving a > series of public lectures soon, so I'm thinking about how to do this > quite a bit - it's hard! At the risk of threadjacking... I wouldn't doubt you know him. And I totally understand that he wasn't being mean when he said that, he was being completely honest. With the language of higher-level mathematics, he probably could explain it to me; unfortunately, I don't possess a background in mathematics deep enough to be able to understand it. It's fascinating stuff though, peering in from the outside, but I'm afraid that will always be my vantage point. Are your public lectures going to be in California, by any chance? I'd be of a mind to attend, if that's possible. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Trade a black Transporter for a silver one?
GoCubs;234647 Wrote: > I'd have him sign it too! Maybe someday it'll end up in the Smithsonian > or something! > > A bit off-topic, but I still get annoyed every time I travel through > San Francisco's airport terminal where they have a cool showcase on > technological innovation/development. There are product displays for > both Sonos and Roku (think I'll take some pics when I travel through > again next week), but no SlimDevices. What gives, especially > considering SFO's proximity to SlimDevices HQ!?!? > > -Greg Yeah, that display pisses me off. Whoever put the display together simply missed the great stuff that had been designed at Slim Devices. Baffling. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39222 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to provecables areworth money
opaqueice;234637 Wrote: > Haha, that's funny... I thought exactly the same thing when I read that > post! I had a little of that sinking feeling I get at cocktail parties > when someone finds out I'm a physicist and brings up QM - that > how-can-I-explain-politely-that-you-have-absolutely-no-idea-what-you're > -talking-about feeling... My cousin is a professor and research physicist at Stanford, working on the SLA. I'm a pretty smart guy by most measures of intelligence and can hold my own with him on a wide variety of topics. I once asked him if he could explain QM to me. As he is family, he didn't have to be polite. He said he could explain it, but there was simply no way in hell I could understand it. After thinking about that statement, I believed it explained QM in "layman's terms" about as succinctly as possible. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] VDC-SB: Power supply for SB from CIAudio
Ron F.;231186 Wrote: > ...If the UK cables have a core at the end, then the US cables ought to > as well and if they don't - an explanation is in order. > > -Ron The US supplies don't have a core at the end. They don't need one to pass regulatory compliance where the UK supply does. Simple as that. *N.B.:* -This applies to Slim Devices-badged product. Logitech-badged products have the same power supply for all regions. And it doesn't have a ferrite core.- -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38738 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezbox with Word Clock in, AES/EBU etc.?
acousticsguru;229955 Wrote: > I probably will. Let me ask you this, though: you're with Slim > Devices/Logitech in some indirect or direct way (likely a staff > member/on their payroll), correct? Why would you assume that? Sorry, but ezkcdude is not a Logitech/Slim Devices employee or representative. Like the vast majority of people around here, he's just passionate about audio and audio gear. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38637 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter MODS - Part II
rajacat;225280 Wrote: > BTW, how many of the regular fanboys are paid by Slim Devices and/or get > free gear? None. However, some of our most significant CODE contributors have gotten gear to test with or develop for. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38106 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Snap, Crackle and Pop
IvanSlade;218231 Wrote: > Can we please carry on with this under private mail. Either > [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sure... but I'm not the right guy to help you. Please try [EMAIL PROTECTED] They can help. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36764 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Snap, Crackle and Pop
IvanSlade;218064 Wrote: > Also Jim why don't the technical guys try to help my problem with the > snap crackle and pop? You, understandably, are trying to protect your > brand name and, I assume, trawl this forum. But even at the moment my > problems are back on the tranporter. I have 5 SB3s, 2 modded and one > transporter. I keep thinking that I have found the root of the problem > but then it reappears. Random stop and start interspered with crackle > and pops. I have adjusted the arial to 2.12Gig at the wireless > broadcast frequency etc. It is a problem. It cannot be the ram (eac > etc)on six units. There is interference from somewhere and I cannot > track it down. The DAC is wonderful. > Best > Ivan The single most qualified person we have -- Sean Adams, the designer of the SB3 and transporter hardware -- was helping you. He gave you a wide variety of suggestions and concluded that, from your replies, it was probably a h/w problem. You then replied that "It was the Lyngdorf power amp 2175 that was causing the problems. I have changed the amp and no problems anymore." With your descriptions of the problem as happening in exactly the sample place in a track, and occuring with both FLAC and MP3 files, as well as SqueezeNetwork, it sounds like a hardware problem (as Sean said). Since you've tried several SB3s and a transporter, I'm wondering if the problem isn't somewhere else in the hardware chain. Isolating each piece independently is the best way to accomplish tracking a h/w problem. -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36764 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Snap, Crackle and Pop
IvanSlade;218061 Wrote: > At least I got your attention. If there is such a back log then you are > over trading. For such a large comapany that surprises me. You know > about all of these things not I. The UK distribution is not very good I > find. I tried to procure one in the UK but to no avail. I am sorry if > Logitech is offended by my comments. We simply have more demand than we can keep up with right now, generally speaking. Some parts have long lead times, and if demand increases inside those lead times, there's little we can do to compensate. In addition, each unit takes a long time to assemble and -- more importantly -- test. > Personally I do not like the design especially the knobs which I find > far too small and tacky. They, inter alia, feel like plastic. There is > one thing that I will stand by though; in common with other manuals > yours is not easy to understand. Obviously my own stupidity, of course. > Someday somebody will write and produce a good manual for a good > product. > Best > Ivan It's impossible to design a product that pleases everyone and I'm sorry you were disappointed. Perhaps you should return the unit for a refund. We're working on a revamp of the documentation as part of the development process for SlimServer 7. I hope you'll find the newer manuals better than you found the current ones. -=> Jim -- JimC "well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that." -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36764 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Snap, Crackle and Pop
IvanSlade;217996 Wrote: > ...The DAC of the transporter is good but the build is appalling; > plastic, too small buttons .. I have the black version because the > silver is on 3 4 week backlog (import from China) colour does not > matter. The only plastic on the transporter is the polycarbonate lens. The rest is built from cast and/or milled aluminum (the bezel, knob, and buttons) or from sheet metal (the case). Further, the transporter is not built in China. It is built in Mt. View, CA. There is a backlog, as each unit is hand-assembled, and thoroughly tested before shipping. It's a pretty labor-intensive process. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36764 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
omega;215510 Wrote: > Quote: > > "Will you at least consider the _possibility_ that there's no problem > with the output stage and that the effect you are hearing is > perceptual?" > > Yes and No... > > Yes, there could be a problem with the slimserversoftware or > compatibility with our DACS or something else. > > No, I don´t think the effect that we are hearing is perceptual, > All people that have listen in my and hammers homes are convince that > this is not a placebo thing. Good grief. All the people are "convinced that this is not a placebo thing" and that makes it NOT a placebo thing? If you haven't tested using blind or double-blind methods, thereby isolating knowledge of the test condition from the test, the results simply cannot exclude the placebo effect. > Both me and Hammer have a very fine tunned system. > If we remove all the "isolation transformers" and "power cleaners" > external DAC etc > we propably not going to hear any differance or have much more > difficult to distinguish between "good" and "Bad" sound. Hmmm. Allow me to recap what I've read: You've _modified_ a Squeezebox such that you claim to hear a difference, and then call it a "design miss" but go on to state that an unmodified SB3 would probably not exhibit the problem. You can't _measure_ any difference so far but still insist there is a difference. A bunch of people you asked to listen for a problem believe they heard the problem. You don't perform your listening tests in a way that would exclude awareness of the test condition. But there's *no* chance that this is a perceptual problem... it simply has to exist because you heard it. Okey dokey. I'm done... I've finally crossed the bridge. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
omega;215390 Wrote: > Hi! > > -JIMC > Quote: > "I tried it, too. The results aren't really relevant, since I didn't > run the tests blind or double-blind. Let's just say I heard *exactly* > what I expected I would hear. > > Did you hear "the effect" ? I didn't hear a difference, but I didn't expect to, either. The reason my results aren't relevant is that I didn't do it blind/double-blind, so I did not control for personal bias. My system isn't very high-end at all, so it could possibly have been masked in the "digital out-->analog conversion-->speakers-->room effects" chain but I doubt that. > Last Sunday, we meet a friend of Hammer and did an analog measurement > with an "Oscilloscope" on the digital output (SB3). > "Everything" looked ok, nothing to explain "the effect thing" So if I'm understanding you, the two measurements you have taken have shown no difference in the signal, correct? Will you at least consider the _possibility_ that there's no problem with the output stage and that the effect you are hearing is perceptual? > My and hammers soundcards don’t have a "Digital in".. Maybe > planning baying one. > Then we try programs like "Audio DiffMaker" etc. There were two tests proposed: 1. Using a soundcard with digital-in, record the output from the SB3. This will be tricky to "compare" as you'll have to match starting points, but as long as the file contains the same segment of music, it should be straightforward. You could also post them here for other people to help you reveiw. This test tells about the digital output from the SB3. 2. Using any analog recording mechanism (with reasonable fidelity and dynamic range), record the "good" and the "bad" audio, again using the same section of music. Use AUDIODIFF to compare these. This second test is for THE REST of your system. In other words, if test 1 shows no difference, but test 2 *does* show a difference, the problem is occurring somewhere in the process of digital-to-analog conversion and/or turning the analog signal into audible frequencies. > Hammer and I are not so good in the "Digital Domain" > We need help from someone who has the "know-how" and the measuring > tools for this. (Jitter etc) > > We hope to get some help from Hammers friend at the Royal Institute of > Technology to track this thing. > He is a researcher and has very limited time. Well, hopefully he'll be able to find the time. Let us know what he finds, if he is able to help you test. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
ganjastone;215301 Wrote: > Not only you're not suggesting any help solving his so called problem, > you accuse him with different accusations. > > You don't even think of running a simple test, instead you suggest he > provides "scientific" proof (my words not yours). Actually, Sean's done a great deal of testing, both simple and complex, on the SB3 and the Transporter. He's never once observed the problem Omega spoke of... since it hasn't been seen before, some repeatable, measurable tests were proposed. None of them have been tried yet, or at least no data has been provided from the tests. Instead of measureable, repeatable data, we got a lot of "all of my friends hear it too!" responses. Interestingly, the results from the measurements Omega had made externally showed no difference. Here's his quote: omega;213761 Wrote: > Hi Craig! > > We only used Inguz "pink noise" source during the measure. > I am not using Inguz DSP plugin. > > I got the result from the measurement, but this shows "nothing". > This measure not measuring "Phase" etc. Early on, Sean suggested a placebo effect as one possible cause, which immediately started to reduce the signal-to-noise ratio on the thread. It shouldn't have, since the placebo effect has been proved over-and-over in a number of disciplines. In fact, even groups of people can suffer from it (a severe form being mass hysteria). At this point, since no one has provided measurable differences of audio before and after, and the external measurements showed no delta, I think the safe hypothesis is just as Sean orginally proposed: "placebo effect". If there's repeatable evidence to the contrary, I'm sure Sean would dig into it and try to identify the cause with an eye toward solving the problem. > Your attitude might even cause me to run a stupid on/off pausing test > :) > > I btw, am not a troll, but a true real happy SB user from Israel I tried it, too. The results aren't really relevant, since I didn't run the tests blind or double-blind. Let's just say I heard *exactly* what I expected I would hear. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Mods
haunyack;215252 Wrote: > Touche'... > . ;-) Even I can use humor, at least once in a while. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36826 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Mods
haunyack;215205 Wrote: > My stepfather would give me one chance to find the appropriate > switch..otherwise , he would find one and that usually spelled > trouble. > > He was German. > > . My father was a Marine Corp Drill Instructor. He liked to use the big leather belt with the Marine Corp logo on it... It's possible I still have "Semper Fidelis" imprinted on my rear-end. Oddly, as I'm apparently an authoritarian, I don't spank or hit my kids. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36826 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MP3 bug/"scratc" finder tool, where to find?
Here's a thread where several applications are mentioned: http://www.djforums.com/showthread.php?p=1167020 I haven't used any of these, but in case no one else has a suggestion, it is at least a place to start. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36879 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Mods
tomjtx;215091 Wrote: > > > I think deleting a thread is also censorship on a macro rather than > micro level. > > If one defines censorship as the restriction of the free flow of > information then thread deletion would fit into that category. Okay, fine. I think closing/deleting a thread is stopping a problem. Banning a user, or removing just their posts means someone has made a specific decision to silence one user and is closer to my personal interpretation of censorship, if not the dictionary version. But, for the record, I didn't delete the thread. It was deleted by Sean at the request of several community members. The forum community policing itself, if you will. I only voted on the future disposition like everyone else. That said, we (Logitech) reserve the right to lock/delete a thread that we feel isn't adding value to the discussion, generally because it has become one where there are personal attacks being made. This isn't "big brother" preventing dissent; This is a responsible forum administration policy. Posts critical of Logitech, or of our products, etc. have never been locked or deleted. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36826 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Mods
slimkid;215056 Wrote: > Having spent good part of my youth days fighting the dictatorship, I can > appreciate your vote. However, I'm disgusted with your reasoning. Also, > sounds rather pathetic that somebody who calls himself 'Logitech > director of marketing' would try to shout my mouth or to censor what I > read. I really have to wonder if Logitech company is OK with their > employees treating their customers like children. > > I may have come out somewhat too strong, but your comments and the sole > fact that this thread got deleted because somebody didn't like it, got > my blood boiling. > > K First, I don't call myself "Logitech Director of Marketing" -- that's my job. And, like me or not, I'm responsible for the customer facing aspects of this business unit. I didn't censor *you* or shut *your* mouth. You should re-read my post without looking for "Big Brother". What I said was that I *VOTE* for leaving the thread deleted because I think that seeing the clear consequences of an action (in this case, a personal attack) is the best way to reinforce the correct behavior. I do happen to think that some of the participants acted in a very childish fashion, hence my reference to children. Also, *I* didn't delete the thread, the community did (OK, Sean did, but at the request of enough users). I easily could have done so, since I have moderator rights to the forum, but it isn't something I would do lightly. We believe our community should have this platform, but we're not obligated to provide a forum where it degenerates into flame wars and personal attacks. The rules here are pretty simple and we are serious about keeping this a place for candid, open dialog (including complaints about our products, our branding, etc) but not a place for personal attacks. If you look around, you'll find a lot of people who complain about what I do for a living (things like changing the logo on the Squeezebox, for example). I've NEVER deleted a single post or thread on that topic, despite it being a complaint directed very much at me. I believe people are free to disagree with me and have shown that in how I act in this forum. Sure, there are users here who I would *personally* like to ban. In fact, many of the members of the community would like us to ban them too. However, they are still able to post, because this isn't consistent with the direction we want to take with the forum. I'm quite capable of feeling one way personally (angry, upset, etc.) and acting another professionally. If I were to delete individual posts, that would be censorship. Deleting a thread is management. The thread in question had *some* signal amongst the noise, but precious little. If you want it, you can find it -- just not here. I've raised three children. I know childish behavior. That thread had it in spades, which is why the community wanted it gone and if my *vote* helps keep it gone, great. If the rest of the community votes differently, then the thread will be restored and locked. I'll be OK with that outcome. > "Power consists in one's capacity to link his will with the purpose of > others, to lead by reason and a gift of cooperation." -- Woodrow Wilson Consider that while Logitech has (and, by extension, I have) absolute power over this forum, including the ability to shut it off completely, we don't do ANY of that. It would be inconsistent with creating the community that is so important to us, and it would simply be an exercise in angering a lot of people for no good reason. If you look at anything we do, you should look at history for a sense of what happens here -- almost no one is banned, almost never is a thread even locked (let alone deleted), and we ASK the community before doing most of those actions. Please, cool your blood down, look rationally at what I actually said, and what actually happened, and then consider what I've said here. I really believe you're overreacting to a rather simple statement. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36826 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Mods
Pat Farrell;215009 Wrote: > seanadams wrote: > > I'll do whatever you all want with it: > > a) resurrect > > b) resurrect and lock > > c) leave deleted > > My vote is to leave it deleted. Perhaps it can > serve as an example of where flaming goes, you lose the good > parts as well. > Which is *exactly* why I vote the same way. It appears to me to be like parenting children: only by making the consequences clear does the lesson stick. There's a Google cache of most of the thread, if you're really interested. No reason to post the nonsense again. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36826 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
tyler_durden;214127 Wrote: > I think that your average, golden-eared audiophile is just like the guy > who spends vast sums on wine because he can taste a difference. Interesting observation, epsecially as I tend toward being a bit of an oenophile (though not a true audiophile at all). When I first started wine tasting, I tried very hard to develop my ability to detect "raspberry" vs. "blackberry" in the wine and other subtleties that are perceptual. I also liked to use a lot of the rather pompous vocabulary you find aroudn wine snobs. Then, when I actually *learned* about wine from a really talented winemaker, I discovered that the perfect vocabulary for wine tasting is this: "I like this wine" or "I don't like this wine". Because, in the end, my tastes are NOT the same as anyone else's so trying to convince them my taste/smell/brain combination is more correct than theirs is equivalent to trying to teach pigs to sing. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
Skunk;213590 Wrote: > Yeah, to suggest that growing pot in the listening room will improve the > sound takes the cake. Wow, that's a pretty egregious typo there... I believe the original said: "smoking pot in the listen room will improve the sound and make you hungry for cake." -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
hammer65;213420 Wrote: > I have been an audiofile for many years and tried a lot of different > equipment both transistor/valve amplifiers, dynamic/electrostatic > speakers. Some of my friends are constructors of HiFi-equipment and I > have lend my ears for many critical listening sessions. I think Sean has made it clear many times that he designed the SB3 and transporter to faithfully reproduce the audio, without adding anything to the signal that might color the sound. Folks who create amplifiers are very often looking to add/enhance particular dynamics in the audio. Your friends may very well value your ears when it comes to telling them if something sounds "right" to you. That's perfectly fine, but not at all relevant to the discussion of the DIGITAL OUTPUT STAGE on the SB3. Your claim is that the digital output on the SB3 has a problem.You base this on human perception of the analog output (filtered through your system and speakers). Sean has tested the digital stage and can see no problems. He's basing this on measurement equipment connected directly to the DIGITAL stage. Human beings, no matter how much they may want to believe otherwise, can be influenced in their perceptions. Measurement equipment is designed to isolate external influences and provide an accurate picture. See the problem? Your claim about the digital stage is based entirely in analog perception, while Sean has verified the digital output using digital test equipment. No one has disputed that YOU, personally, PERCEIVE a problem, or that your friends, neighbors, and measurement guys with royal pedigrees, PERCEIVE a problem. The issue is simply that you haven't given anyone enough data to confirm the problem. Can you please, please, please try the SCIENTIFIC methods of recording/comparing that have been repeatedly suggested in this thread? > It's very sad that you Seanadams has an negatively attitude to > critisism. Isn't it important as a constructor/inventor to be > openminded and try to listen to critical voices. Even if our problem > sounds rather strange. Actually, I've found Sean to be very open to input on his products. He's incredibly passionate about them being the best they possibly can be and I've never seen him react negatively to someone who has information that will help him make the product better. > I have contacted a friend/researcher at the Royal Institute of > Technology here in Stockholm for help with the measurement. Maybe this > measurement will tell us if everything is placebo or not. Excellent. Can you PLEASE have him perform the tests suggested here? If you come back with a answer that "he hears it too" and haven't run the tests that have been suggested, I'll have to lock this thread as simply a very long, elaborate troll (and then I'll go have the hook surgically removed). -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?
hammer65;213201 Wrote: > ...I can't buy Seanadams comment: "There is nothing different between a > pause and a power off aside from what's shown on the screen". Why can > we hear the difference when nothing happens?Could it be a clock issue > or maybe a jitterproblem that affects the soundquality? Hammer, you're new here, so you may not realize that Sean designed the Squeezebox. If he says there's nothing different between pause and power off, then I'm pretty damn sure there's nothing different. He knows exactly what the hardware does. Really. > We are only interested if someone could find a solution/fix for our > problem. We are not talking about placebo affect nor problems with > scandinavian ears. > /hammer65 What everyone is trying to tell you is that you haven't provided useful data to help solve the problem. You keep working through listening tests with friends, neighbors, and even a measurement guy, when this isn't what will solve the "problem" you are talking about. If you really want someone to help you, try following their suggestions. The most important one has been mentioned several times now: using a computer soundcard, record the digital output from the Squeezebox for both cases and compare them. If the ones-and-zeroes for the music are different, then the Squeezebox is at fault; if they aren't, the problem is either somewhere else in the chain, or it is a placebo effect. To confirm it isn't in your DAC , try recording the analog output from the DAC (as suggested a couple of times now) and use the audiodiff tool to compare the files. A difference here shows the fault is with the DAC. Since none of us can actually participate in your "friends and family" testing as we're all a few thousand miles away, the results of that testing are useless to us. The only way anyone is going to be able to help is if you cooperate by attempting the tests suggested. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36503 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Should I replace my cables every 1000 hours
Videodrome;213205 Wrote: > ...On the other hand, I have seen several cables (particularly old, 10 > ga. Monster Cable speaker wire) turn green with oxidation. I'm not an > electrical engineer, but that has got to have deleterious effect on the > sound. Rule of thumb... Green stuff growing in garden == GOOD Green stuff growing on bread == BAD Green stuff growing on Cu cables == BAD -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36658 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Should I replace my cables every 1000 hours
mswlogo;213047 Wrote: > It seems the "experts" believe break in is neccessary for cables and > components. > This implies things are constantly changing and wearing. > If thats the case why not recommend replacement after so many hours. > > I don't know of anything in the physical world that "wears" when in > operation and knows to stop wearing past its peak. How does the device > know to stop wearing and when? At one point in time, the experts thought the Earth was the center of the solar system, that the Earth was flat, and various and sundry other bits of absurdum. As a general rule, when the "experts" argue stridently to convince you they are correct, it is a pretty good indicator they are neither. -=> Jim -- JimC JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36658 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
