Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Are you decoding flac at the server and not at the device (file settings in SBS)? If so, the files won't play on the duet, as the decoding is done at the native level, which is too high for the Duet. If you have a Duet and a Touch on your network and want the files to play on both, you need to have decoding in FLAC at the device level. That's the default setting. -- firedog GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-DACV3, MF X-150 amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Phil Leigh;622059 Wrote: SOX is already installed when SBS is installed. SOX is used to playback 192 or 176.4 files by resampling them to 96 or 88.2. SOX does VERY high quality resampling and can convert between non-multiples with no quality problems. When I play 96-24 files on the touch theres no problem. But when I try to play these on the duet, it does not play them and says unsupported sample rate or something to that effect. If sox was working shouldn't it play at 48 hz? -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable, NHT 3.3 Speakers dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
I believe from your original post, you indicated that Squeezeboxserver is running on a NAS. If that's the case, transcoding may not be setup, as most NAS boxes do not have the processing power to support transcoding - therefore SOX may not even be installed in your application. It may be possible to work around this and actually install SOX and setup appropriate configurations to enable transcoding from 96kHz to 48kHz so your Duet Receiver can play these hi-rez streams. -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Sox is installed and supported on ReadyNAS devices which the OP mentions. All the x86 based ReadyNAS are capable of transcoding. -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
According to the 'wiki Hardware comparison' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Hardware_comparison), all Squeezeboxen after the SLIMP3 have two clocks. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Soulkeeper;622502 Wrote: According to the 'wiki Hardware comparison' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Hardware_comparison), all Squeezeboxen after the SLIMP3 have two clocks. (Except the Transporter and Touch with three clocks). The touch has two oscillators used for determining the audio sampling rates, one for 44.1 and 88.2 and the other for 48 and 96. There are other oscillators on the board for things like the processor, ethernet interface, RTC etc. These in no way determine the audio sample rate. So in terms of clocks that are used for the audio sample rate there are two. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;621992 Wrote: 2) Transporter: Will not use the DAC on the transporter as the Audio Research Dac 8 is far superior. *It has two oscillators: one for multiples of 44.1 KHZ and one for multiples of 48 KHZ so we avoid fractional sampling and the music is played at the native frequency.* Most (if not all) Squeezebox devices also have two oscillators. The Dac 8 may sound better than the Transporter, but not because of this. -- sebp 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/sebp) sebp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11768 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
adamdea;621745 Wrote: Only playing. Mind you the record now states that you have always had them. Seriously though- bearing in mind the enormous amount of money you have apparently spent on your system, if you do want to go down the music server /squeezebox route you might as well do it properly. Now taking your reports about your preferences at face value (I do hope everyone read that bit)my half baked views are as follows- 1 why not use the mac mini streaming over wireless from a NAS but connected directly by spdif or usb to your dac (but see 3). 2 why not try a transporter? They probably cost less than your power cables at the moment. Assuming the mac mini sounds better than the touch, who is to say that the transporter won't sound better either via spDIF or even using its own dacs. 3 why not buy a linn klimax or akurat or something 4 why not consider replacing or supplementing your dac with an ayre usb dac which can either be connected to the mac mini or to the touch using john swenson's special tweak. OR maybe a fabulous DCS dac 5 why not try implementing DRC which doesn't need to cost much but might make a huge difference. [6 by all means why not try the wireless bridge connected by ethernet option. That would leave you free to try all soundchecks mods. But you may be able to use part of his tool box (eg the digital out only mod) alone. after all there's probably no harm trying] Any of these options [well 6hmmm. ]seems likely to be more effective than buying an expensive power cable for your router. My point is simply that if you are wanting to use server based music as a your main source you might as well build your system around that assumption rather than fitting it into a setup designed for another purpose. Speakers: yup! have always had them and seem to have erased it from the signature when updating :) Thanks for all the input. Let me share my thoughts with you: 1) Prefer Squeezebox over Mac mini as to play on mac mini, will need itunes, if not mistaken. Want to stay away from itunes as I understand that it can not handle large libraries. My music collection is 2 TB and constantly expanding. Just bought the Ready Nas Pro 6 bay to speed up things: library scan, etc and get more space. Eventually want to stream movies as well from the Nas to some Gizmo: still looking (Ac Ryan, Dune, etc) Like the squeezebox controller, of course can use the Mac Mini with a ipod touch but I have seen this at my friends house and am not happy with the response time from the ipod touch. May be his router was slow but my controller is much faster. The Dac 8 has a USB input and the mac mini plugged into the Dac 8 via the USB port using the drivers audio research provides sounds good but prefer the convenience of the squeezebox system. 2) Transporter: Will not use the DAC on the transporter as the Audio Research Dac 8 is far superior. It has two oscillators: one for multiples of 44.1 KHZ and one for multiples of 48 KHZ so we avoid fractional sampling and the music is played at the native frequency. Have some 88.2 khz material (vinyl rips) that I would like to play in the native frequency via my laptop. The audio research Dac 8 does this. As of now, no other dac does this, same thing goes for 176 khz. Ayre and others will upsample it to 192 and not play at the native frequency. Native frequency sounds much better. There is not too much material at these frequencies but have some audiophile stuff that is at these frequencies. Hence, transporter not an option as I have invested a lot (recently) into the Dac 8. Also with transporter, I will be addressing the WLAN problem like the squeezebox touch. Also if I am not using the DAC, seems a bit of over kill as the touch with a linear power supply and some mods should outperform it. Correct me if I am wrong 3) Linn Klimax: studying. Another option is the Weiss Man 2002 or something like that but very pricey at the moment. Indicative price: USD 10k 4) Audio research dac 8 has a very good USB input and it is better than ayre, in my opinion, reasons stated above: native frequency etc 5) DRC: not sure what you mean. Request clarification 6) Agreed. For the time being prefer the squeezebox set up and will try with a linear power supply and the mods. If not happy will have to figure out what to do. A friend actually built his own HTPC to work as a music server with Solid State Drives with a LCD touch interface: similar to SOLOOS. This may be an option. Still waiting for him to iron out the noise issues. Thanks for all the input. BTW if you are in the market for a USB DAC, check out the Audio Research DAC 8. GREAT SOUND!! Very impressive indeed! -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable, NHT 3.3 Speakers
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
2) Transporter: Will not use the DAC on the transporter as the Audio Research Dac 8 is far superior. It has two oscillators: one for multiples of 44.1 KHZ and one for multiples of 48 KHZ so we avoid fractional sampling and the music is played at the native frequency. Have some 88.2 khz material (vinyl rips) that I would like to play in the native frequency via my laptop. The audio research Dac 8 does this. As of now, no other dac does this, same thing goes for 176 khz. Ayre and others will upsample it to 192 and not play at the native frequency. Native frequency sounds much better. 5) DRC: not sure what you mean. Request clarification 2)The PS Audio PWD will play all files at native resolution if you tell it to; I believe there are a few other DACs (Empirical Audio DAC and also EA Off Ramp Converter)like this. 5) DRC - I think the reference is to DSP (digital) Room Correction -- firedog GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-DACV3, MF X-150 amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;621992 Wrote: Speakers: yup! have always had them and seem to have erased it from the signature when updating :) Thanks for all the input. Let me share my thoughts with y 2) Transporter: Will not use the DAC on the transporter as the Audio Research Dac 8 is far superior. It has two oscillators: one for multiples of 44.1 KHZ and one for multiples of 48 KHZ so we avoid fractional sampling and the music is played at the native frequency. Have some 88.2 khz material (vinyl rips) that I would like to play in the native frequency via my laptop. The audio research Dac 8 does this. As of now, no other dac does this, same thing goes for 176 khz. Ayre and others will upsample it to 192 and not play at the native frequency. Native frequency sounds much better. There is not too much material at these frequencies but have some audiophile stuff that is at these frequencies. Hence, transporter not an option as I have invested a lot (recently) into the Dac 8. Also with transporter, I will be addressing the WLAN problem like the squeezebox touch. Also if I am not using the DAC, seems a bit of over kill as the touch with a linear power supply and some mods should outperform it. Correct me if I am wrong 5) DRC: not sure what you mean. Request clarification Thanks for all the input. BTW if you are in the market for a USB DAC, check out the Audio Research DAC 8. GREAT SOUND!! Very impressive indeed!I don't have much money to throw around right now, but if I did I would be very tempted by a Linn Klimax, or DCS DAC or maybe a NAD M2. If the NAD had asynchronous USB in I reckon it would be irresistible. The touch has 2 different oscillators actually. I know this because i replaced at Audio upgrades (maybe now called Fidelity audio or something). Some dacs do automatically convert of sample rates- but i wasn't aware that all of them did. I am not sure whether the touch does for its SPDIF out, but other more technical folk will know. AS regards the transporter as i understand it its internal PS layout an design are much more sophisticated than the touch, and there are internal bits in the touych (switchmode regulators?) which are difficult to replace but which (many folk say) make the benefit of an external linear supply doubtful. By the dtime you have purchased a linear psu (anywhere from 150 to 1000 (see Bolder cables)) maybe you might as well have got the transporter. If you really want to soup up the touch I reckon that at some expense you could get a separate PSU for the clock, which might help. I would have guessed that it would be worth at least trying out the transporter on digital out, as there are sound reasons why it might be better. All this is subject to the proviso that many people argue with some force that a properly engineered dac shouldn't really be affected that much by the transport, and the Touch digital out has been measured by many people as being fine. Anyway maybe you can use the Touch usb out with the Audio Research DAC. As regards DRC I have just started fiddling with Inguz which can be bolted on for free (but with measuring equipment required) -better check that out on its own thread. There are strong arguments that whatever fiddling you do with a transport or even dac will be a drop in the ocean compared with the beneficial changes available via room correction. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
adamdea;622011 Wrote: ...The touch has 2 different oscillators actually. I know this because i replaced at Audio upgrades (maybe now called Fidelity audio or something). Some dacs do automatically convert sample rates- but I didn't know that all of them (apart from AR) did. I am not sure whether the touch does for its SPDIF out, but other more technical folk will know. Most DAC's do not resample. The Touch does not resample. Some DAC's use an ASRC chip to resample. Native rate playback is irrelevant when using ASRC or SOX on the SBS. This is an enduring myth that needs busting :-) (NB do not confuse with oversampling which is whole different thing). -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
adamdea;622011 Wrote: Anyway maybe you can use the Touch usb out with the Audio Research DAC. Is there a MOD for this? Do you know the link? Noted all your points with thanks. Will see if I can demo the transporter and compare. -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable, NHT 3.3 Speakers dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Phil Leigh;622025 Wrote: Most DAC's do not resample. The Touch does not resample. Some DAC's use an ASRC chip to resample. Native rate playback is irrelevant when using ASRC or SOX on the SBS. This is an enduring myth that needs busting :-) (NB do not confuse with oversampling which is whole different thing). Hi. Heard of SOX but not sure what it is? is it a plugin? Read about it somewhere but do not know how to install it? What does it do and how do you install it? benefits? Please advise. Thanks -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable, NHT 3.3 Speakers dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;622054 Wrote: Hi. Heard of SOX but not sure what it is? is it a plugin? Read about it somewhere but do not know how to install it? What does it do and how do you install it? benefits? Please advise. Thanks SOX is already installed when SBS is installed. SOX is used to playback 192 or 176.4 files by resampling them to 96 or 88.2. SOX does VERY high quality resampling and can convert between non-multiples with no quality problems. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
JezA;619070 Wrote: Add up all the money you propose to spend on fancy power supplies, cables, NAS's and other voodoo. Spend it on a Transporter. Job done, right. I agree on this one. The transporter has much better DAC's. I have both in similar setups and have moved each of them back and forth to get a sense of the differences, it's night and day. Spend the money on the transporter, just too bad they removed the navigation knob... -- islandsound islandsound's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36101 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;622052 Wrote: Is there a MOD for this? Do you know the link? Noted all your points with thanks. Will see if I can demo the transporter and compare. On the touch forum (apparently works with ayre dac but not all others) http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110highlight=USB -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
garym;621267 Wrote: Dhinesh, You realize this post was a joke right? If not, you might be a customer for these products.;-) http://www.coconut-audio.com/ Ha Ha! I missed that! Just saw the shunyata misspelt and replied. ha Ha! I am cracking up! loved coconut audio as well. on the serious side, can any one of you give me input to help improve my set up? Am a very serious audiophile and need good sound. The convenience of the touch and the other squeezebox gizmos is amazing: better than picking up a CD everytime I want to listen to something. Nice Joke BTW -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;621655 Wrote: on the serious side, can any one of you give me input to help improve my set up? Am a very serious audiophile and need good sound. The convenience of the touch and the other squeezebox gizmos is amazing: better than picking up a CD everytime I want to listen to something. Nice Joke BTW Having analysed out your system quite carefully, I reckon your problem is that you don't have any speakers. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
adamdea;621719 Wrote: Having analysed out your system quite carefully, I reckon your problem is that you don't have any speakers. speakers are NHT 3.3 tks for the note. -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
adamdea;621719 Wrote: Having analysed out your system quite carefully, I reckon your problem is that you don't have any speakers. Some audiophiles end up overdoing the transparency and blacker blacks thing -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;621724 Wrote: speakers are NHT 3.3 tks for the note. Only playing. Mind you the record now states that you have always had them. Seriously though- bearing in mind the enormous amount of money you have apparently spent on your system, if you do want to go down the music server /squeezebox route you might as well do it properly. Now taking your reports about your preferences at face value (I do hope everyone read that bit)my half baked views are as follows- 1 why not use the mac mini streaming over wireless from a NAS but connected directly by spdif or usb to your dac (but see 3). 2 why not try a transporter? They probably cost less than your power cables at the moment. Assuming the mac mini sounds better than the touch, who is to say that the transporter won't sound better either via spDIF or even using its own dacs. 3 why not buy a linn klimax or akurat or something 4 why not consider replacing or supplementing your dac with an ayre usb dac which can either be connected to the mac mini or to the touch using john swenson's special tweak. OR maybe a fabulous DCS dac 5 why not try implementing DRC which doesn't need to cost much but might make a huge difference. [6 by all means why not try the wireless bridge connected by ethernet option. That would leave you free to try all soundchecks mods. But you may be able to use part of his tool box (eg the digital out only mod) alone. after all there's probably no harm trying] Any of these options [well 6hmmm. ]seems likely to be more effective than buying an expensive power cable for your router. My point is simply that if you are wanting to use server based music as a your main source you might as well build your system around that assumption rather than fitting it into a setup designed for another purpose. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
adamdea;621745 Wrote: Only playing. Mind you the record now states that you have always had them. Seriously though- bearing in mind the enormous amount of money you have apparently spent on your system, if you do want to go down the music server /squeezebox route you might as well do it properly. Now taking your reports about your preferences at face value (I do hope everyone read that bit)my half baked views are as follows- 1 why not use the mac mini streaming over wireless from a NAS but connected directly by spdif or usb to your dac (but see 3). 2 why not try a transporter? They probably cost less than your power cables at the moment. Assuming the mac mini sounds better than the touch, who is to say that the transporter won't sound better either via spDIF or even using its own dacs. 3 why not buy a linn klimax or akurat or something 4 why not consider replacing or supplementing your dac with an ayre usb dac which can either be connected to the mac mini or to the touch using john swenson's special tweak. OR maybe a fabulous DCS dac 5 why not try implementing DRC which doesn't need to cost much but might make a huge difference. [6 by all means why not try the wireless bridge connected by ethernet option. That would leave you free to try all soundchecks mods. But you may be able to use part of his tool box (eg the digital out only mod) alone. after all there's probably no harm trying] Any of these options [well 6hmmm. ]seems likely to be more effective than buying an expensive power cable for your router. My point is simply that if you are wanting to use server based music as a your main source you might as well build your system around that assumption rather than fitting it into a setup designed for another purpose. or consider picking up either a used Transporter or new Transporter SE to use as your SB player. Router ethernet Computer Server running SbS Transporter (connected with either WIFI or ethernet) either (a) XLR outputs to preamp/amp (i.e., use internal Transporter DAC) or (b) S/PDIF or Optical digital out to the input of any DAC of your choice. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
garym;621759 Wrote: or consider picking up either a used Transporter or new Transporter SE to use as your SB player. Router ethernet Computer Server running SbS Transporter (connected with either WIFI or ethernet) either (a) XLR outputs to preamp/amp (i.e., use internal Transporter DAC) or (b) S/PDIF or Optical digital out to the input of any DAC of your choice. That was Point 2 -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
adamdea;621766 Wrote: Agreed, see my point 2 oops. Sorry. Reading about Soundcheck's mods always gives me a temporary memory loss. Something to do with the 100% volume mod.;-) -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
garym;621768 Wrote: oops. Sorry. Reading about Soundcheck's mods always gives me a temporary memory loss. Something to do with the 100% volume mod.;-) HAHHAHAH! I´m getting the popcorns. :) -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Genius satire. The guys at Hydrogen Audio would probably give you a medal if you posted there. I will say however, that wired works much better on my system, in terms of almost no blips, drop outs, rebuffering etc. Especially with hi-res. But I'm not making any claims about SQ. -- firedog GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-DACV3, MF X-150 amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
firedog;621182 Wrote: I will say however, that wired works much better on my system, in terms of almost no blips, drop outs, rebuffering etc. Especially with hi-res. But I'm not making any claims about SQ. Yes, this is the strength of WIRED. One is not subject to weak WIFI signals, interference with WIFI from nearby networks, etc. If the data can all make it from the server to the player, the SQ is not the issue. But if it can't make it to the server consistently because of these WIFI issues, you'll suffer rebuffering, etc. This is why all my players except for the two radios I use on battery power outside are connected via ethernet. But as firedog points out, this approach has nothing to do with my concern over sound quality. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
satkinsn;621029 Wrote: The Linux server with Shinyota power cable is something else again; all the above is true, but a sense of *detail* joins the fray. It's as if I could drill down through endless layers of detail and there would always be more to find. Yet I don't feel as if any information is being kept from me; if anything, it's as if a veil has been lifted. Scott A. Do you mean Shunyata Power Cable? Which one? -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;621260 Wrote: Do you mean Shunyata Power Cable? Which one? Dhinesh, You realize this post was a joke right? If not, you might be a customer for these products.;-) http://www.coconut-audio.com/ -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;621260 Wrote: Do you mean Shunyata Power Cable? Which one? I must be in the bizzaro world. :rolleyes: -- ghostrider ghostrider's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18959 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;621260 Wrote: Do you mean Shunyata Power Cable? Which one? Apologies. I was writing quickly and managed to misstate name. It is a Shin-ola power cable, which I assume is Americanized. s. -- satkinsn satkinsn's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11398 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
satkinsn;621280 Wrote: Apologies. I was writing quickly and managed to misstate name. It is a Shin-ola power cable, which I assume is Americanized. s. I just spit out my coffee. ;-p -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
satkinsn;621280 Wrote: Apologies. I was writing quickly and managed to misstate name. It is a Shin-ola power cable, which I assume is Americanized. s. For those unfamiliar with American idioms and movies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsyS0oHLNFA -- Ron Olsen Ron Olsen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
earwaxer9;620958 Wrote: Yes to wired. The Transporter sounds better over ethernet. Case closed. Cat5 or Cat7. No difference. Length of cable - no difference. Even -if- wifi really does sound different to wired, it is nothing to do with jitter. There is no jitter at all, zero, involved in transmitting TCP/IP network packets from the server to the player. The server sends the packets, the player receives them and sticks them a buffer and then plays them out whenever it feels like. Entirely asynchronous and jitter free. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
satkinsn;621029 Wrote:
Not necessarily. I have extensively tested spreadsheets and can find
subtle but real differences.
Of course, you have to have a system capable of resolving those
differences in the first place - you're simply not going to see the
difference in two Excel spreadsheets if you're comparing them on, say,
an Asus Eee and a Dell netbook. Neither machine is capable of bringing
out the best in a spreadsheet, so it stands to reason that neither
machine will show differences.
At least, my testing has failed to show any.
Second, you have to compare 'apples' to 'apples.' It proves nothing if
you're comparing the payroll records of a small start up to the sick
time of a large corporation. They're too different to make any
meaningful judgement.
In order to adequately test spreadsheets, I've found it's important to
precisely match formulae and records length. But even after you have
'level matched' you have a number of further steps - the most obvious
being in the areas of power supply and cabling. I disconnect the stock
power supplies on the units I test, and use a purpose built linear
power supply with balanced XLR outputs.
Cabling adjustments include an oxygenated mouse cable - I don't claim
to understand why this makes a difference, but it is clear across a
variety of spreadsheets and texts. Since I apply it equally to all
tested documents, I figure it can't hurt.
With all the above done - and remember, the point here is not 'tweak'
endlessly; it's simply to get the best spreadsheet results I can - I
have found network issues can make a huge difference.
For instance, I have stored a favorite spreadsheet of mine ('small
tools misc. supplies, March '010') on both a Win 2003 box with a
stock power cable and a much larger Linux server (RHOS '09 with the
Friedlander extensions). To me, the differences couldn't be larger.
Off the Win server, 'small tools' is very good. The overall inventory
levels and controls are exactly where they should be - there is the
transparency to the records you'd expect, and a 'rounded quality' that
allows one to get a strong sense of the story the spreadsheet tells. In
particular, I delight in the way 'drill bits, metric' moves within a
defined but expansive range between the 13th and 29th.
The Linux server with Shinyota power cable is something else again; all
the above is true, but a sense of *detail* joins the fray. It's as if I
could drill down through endless layers of detail and there would
always be more to find. Yet I don't feel as if any information is being
kept from me; if anything, it's as if a veil has been lifted.
Could I prove this with an ABX test? Doubtful, but as others have noted
I think that says more about such tests than about what I perceive.
Scott A.
You made my day.
--
garym
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
garym;621034 Wrote: you made my day. +1 lmfao!!! -- Eriko Eriko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
That was incredible! +1 -- Curt962 Transporter...TouchBoom.. Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
andynormancx;619225 Wrote: There is no jitter involved in the networking between your NAS and the player, zero. That article you linked to is complete nonsense. Yes to wired. The Transporter sounds better over ethernet. Case closed. Cat5 or Cat7. No difference. Length of cable - no difference. -- earwaxer9 System: modified Winsome Labs Mouse, modified Maggie MMG's, Transporter, HSU sub 12, MSB DAC to 500 watt sub slave amp, JPS labs power cords, Silver audio interconnect, Audioquest Granite speaker cable. earwaxer9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39527 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Phil Leigh;619274 Wrote: OP: Back to ethernet... there are supposed to be isolating transformers at each end of an ethernet connection... Yep. * And a big fad polluted ground feeding all kind of mess into your device. No, there is nothing like an ITU-T (Telecommunications standards) conform grounding in place in 99.999% of all households. The Touch ground becomes the tip of your antenna. * though wired is still better than WLAN, which causes other problems inside the Touch. t is not the WLAN itself. It's its endpoint characteristics. Some folks made good experiences by introducing a wireless bridge and just introduced a small 3ft unshielded patch cable. One more: I really liked the earlier comment by somebody else: Buy a transporter. No need to tweak that one. As far as I recall there is quite a huge group of people around, who claimed that also for the Touch. (Phil thx again that you took some measurements!) Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Computer Audiophile in its review of the touch claims that the SPDIF output of the touch is bit perfect but I have my doubts as my ears are not HAPPY! Of course the SBT is bit perfect, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what you hear. From bit perfect to the analogue you hear lots of things happen: Jitter, RF interference, filtering etc. -- firedog GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-DACV3, MF X-150 amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
soundcheck;619567 Wrote: * And a big fad polluted ground feeding all kind of mess into your device. The Touch ground becomes the tip of your antenna. Do you mean this happens with shielded, unshielded or both type of cables? Cheers Johan -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
I can't recall if the OP was ever asked to check the SbS settings (SETTINGS PLAYERS Audio (dropdown menu), to make sure that BITRATE LIMITING is not turned on. If it is on, the OP may be listening to mp3 at LAME -V9 level. This would explain an unhappiness with the sound. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
soundcheck;619567 Wrote: Yep. * And a big fad polluted ground feeding all kind of mess into your device. No, there is nothing like an ITU-T (Telecommunications standards) conform grounding in place in 99.999% of all households. The Touch ground becomes the tip of your antenna. * though wired is still better than WLAN, which causes other problems inside the Touch. t is not the WLAN itself. It's its endpoint characteristics. Some folks made good experiences by introducing a wireless bridge and just introduced a small 3ft unshielded patch cable. One more: I really liked the earlier comment by somebody else: Buy a transporter. No need to tweak that one. As far as I recall there is quite a huge group of people around, who claimed that also for the Touch. (Phil thx again that you took some measurements!) Cheers I'm using unshielded cat5 between PC and router and router and Touch. There is no DC ground connectivity between PC-router or router-Touch. I've just measured it (again) using a very accurate, high sensitivity Fluke MM. Are you talking about AC connectivity at RF via the ground plane? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
soundcheck;619567 Wrote: * though wired is still better than WLAN, which causes other problems inside the Touch. My DAC rejects jitter and I connect to it with an optical cable. Where is the problem? Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB3, SB Touch SqueezeControl for Android darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
firedog;619570 Wrote: Of course the SBT is bit perfect, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what you hear. From bit perfect to the analogue you hear lots of things happen: Jitter, RF interference, filtering etc. Noted. Taken care to ensure the rest of the equipment is good to minimise jitter, RF interference, filtering, etc. Everything is plugged into the shunyata hydra and all the inter connects are good: digital cable is the stereovox ultra, interconnects are kimber select, power cords are kimber palladian or kimber pk 10 gold. As is evident, the shielding on these cables is good Ayre C5XE MP is connected to the same equipment: same dac, same system and sounds far better than the touch. Will work on soundchecks mods and then compare and report back. If you take a look at hiface (m2 tech) and the modified hi face, Pure music, amarra, etc their whole selling point is to give you a bit perfect signal at the USB output and feed it to your dac via a digital cable. Even this setup sounds better than the touch in my system. However, nothing REPEAT nothing can beat the convenience of a NAS with all your music. Imagine using a hiface off your laptop. How much can you fit it? NOT MUCH as they recommend using Solid state drives. The bigger sizes are very expensive. I need 2 TB to fit my stuff. So have to keep working on the touch till I get where I want to go! -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;619620 Wrote: If you take a look at hiface (m2 tech) and the modified hi face, Pure music, amarra, etc their whole selling point is to give you a bit perfect signal at the USB output and feed it to your dac via a digital cable. That's not correct. Amarra. Pure Music and so forth are mainly doing what I'm doing with my Toolbox. They try to limit the PC impact on the data stream as much as possible. And Amarra in particular is charging a lot of money for it. Hint: There's a freeware OSX player called Audirvana. That one should be tried first. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;619620 Wrote: However, nothing REPEAT nothing can beat the convenience of a NAS with all your music. Imagine using a hiface off your laptop. How much can you fit it? NOT MUCH as they recommend using Solid state drives. The bigger sizes are very expensive. I need 2 TB to fit my stuff. So have to keep working on the touch till I get where I want to go! I'm about as far from an expert as it's possible to get but I don't think so. You don't have to have the drive holding the music on the same machine as the server running SBS. There is nothing to stop you having your music on a NAS and running SBS or whatever on the laptop pointing (if that's the right word) at the NAS -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
magiccarpetride;619097 Wrote: EVERYTHING pretty much vanishes under the double blind ABX test circumstances. That's the fact that invalidates such a clever test. You can read up on it all over the web -- people. experienced audiophiles, have reportedly never been able to pass ANY ABX tests with better than 51% batting average. Even when comparing shitty, $20 DVD players against multi thousand dollars players, or bottom line power amps with ten thousand dollars power amps, under ABX regime all the differences mysteriously melt away. In many reported cases, the test subjects would've achieved pretty much the same results had they simply chosen to toss a coin. It's a fact, try it for yourself. Take the best component you can find, pair it up with the shittiest one, and run the two components through double blind ABX. 7 times out of 15, you'll be wrong. 8 times out of 15, you'll be right. Or vice versa, same difference basically. Same goes for pretty much anybody else who'd be willing to join you in the testing exercise. That, plus, as I've mentioned, there is a huge body of already published evidence that pretty much exposes the same interesting phenomenon. Does this mean that we're just a bunch of jerks who are imagining that, upon paying lots of money, we get our money's worth? Draw the conclusions for yourself... 3/10 Don't feed the troll. -- Muele BR Mogens 2 Radios (1 battery), 2 Controllers, 2 Receivers, 1 Squeezeplay. Served by an old 800 mhz IBM T21 Thinkpad (Yes I know most phones have more cpu-power these days, but it gets the job done). Muele's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21310 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
magiccarpetride;619097 Wrote: EVERYTHING pretty much vanishes under the double blind ABX test circumstances. That's the fact that invalidates such a clever test. You can read up on it all over the web -- people. experienced audiophiles, have reportedly never been able to pass ANY ABX tests with better than 51% batting average. Even when comparing shitty, $20 DVD players against multi thousand dollars players, or bottom line power amps with ten thousand dollars power amps, under ABX regime all the differences mysteriously melt away. In many reported cases, the test subjects would've achieved pretty much the same results had they simply chosen to toss a coin. It's a fact, try it for yourself. Take the best component you can find, pair it up with the shittiest one, and run the two components through double blind ABX. 7 times out of 15, you'll be wrong. 8 times out of 15, you'll be right. Or vice versa, same difference basically. Same goes for pretty much anybody else who'd be willing to join you in the testing exercise. That, plus, as I've mentioned, there is a huge body of already published evidence that pretty much exposes the same interesting phenomenon. MCR, Nonsense. First of all, I have heard differences blind. Second, there is a plenty of evidence online that others hear differences blind on a regular basis. You might want to rephrase that. Or better - and more beneficial to your good self - would be to try some proper blind listening for yourself. Discussion and theory can only take you so far. Regards, Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB3, SB Touch SqueezeControl for Android darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
jeza;619070 Wrote: add up all the money you propose to spend on fancy power supplies, cables, nas's and other voodoo. Spend it on a transporter. Job done, right. -- michael123 Please fix http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16814 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;619107 Wrote: 1) Check out: http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html Dac is very good. Was using a benchmark dac1 and changed it for the audio research dac 8. It sounds great when the digital out from the CD player is plugged into it. Unfortunately, with the touch I am not happy. The Dac is very high end. Quite a few members on the diyaudio forum reported better sound using a wired setup and 1 reported that using a bridge like ddwrt and using two identical routers resulted in an improvement in sound. Lets get more responses from audiophiles! Get the transporter, man. Your system deserves it. Transporter has completely different digital section -- michael123 Please fix http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16814 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
michael123;619164 Wrote: Get the transporter, man. Your system deserves it. Transporter has completely different digital section are you using the transporter wired or wireless (WLAN). I want to stick with WLAN as I prefer it, and am wondering if the transporter sounds good using WLAN. There are two issues here that we are discussing: 1) Mods on the touch (2) getting good sound using wlan. Transporter obviously does not need any mods but the 2nd issue: WLAN: does the transporter resolve this as well? Please advise. Thanks -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;619175 Wrote: are you using the transporter wired or wireless (WLAN). I want to stick with WLAN as I prefer it, and am wondering if the transporter sounds good using WLAN. There are two issues here that we are discussing: 1) Mods on the touch (2) getting good sound using wlan. Transporter obviously does not need any mods but the 2nd issue: WLAN: does the transporter resolve this as well? Please advise. Thanks There is no difference in sound of The Transporter using lan/wlan. But if you will use WLAN it is VERY important to have a good and stable wireless network. I am using wlan with a Netgear WNDR3700 router and it sounds great. It is stable and no sound dropouts/rebuffering. -- callesoroe Callesoroe SB-duet, Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma PLUS(PANELS), Acoustic Reality Ear TWO MKII(Bas) callesoroe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22693 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;619175 Wrote: are you using the transporter wired or wireless (WLAN). I want to stick with WLAN as I prefer it, and am wondering if the transporter sounds good using WLAN. There are two issues here that we are discussing: 1) Mods on the touch (2) getting good sound using wlan. Transporter obviously does not need any mods but the 2nd issue: WLAN: does the transporter resolve this as well? Please advise. Thanks Transporter works just fine on WIFI. It can even pickup a weaker signal due to having better antennas (dual antennas and you can even add larger antennas). p.s. this said, in my opinion and that of people that know a lot more than me, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the sound quality based on whether the bits arrive via WIFI or ethernet. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;618995 Wrote: After researching a bit and reading up on the forum, I would like to set up my squeezebox touch as follows and any input, criticism, guidance, etc to help all of us get on the right path would help. I will post back my experience so others can learn as well: Current Setup: 1)Do not have an option to run wired ethernet as NAS is in another room and wiring is not convenient. Besides I would like to keep the fan noise out of my listening room 2)Running Squeezecenter on a Readynas NV+ and will upgrade to Netgear Pro very soon. Have a dedicated router that is only used for streaming using WLAN to the touch, duet and SB3 in 3 different rooms. Router is a Cisco Linksys 610N. Have around 2 TB of music and using a laptop with a hiface and a itunes / hard disk / Mac, just does not cut it for me due to my LARGE music library 3)Touch analog outputs are not used and the SPDIF out put goes into the Audio Research Dac 8. Sound is OK but not on par with my Ayre C5XE MP CD Player even using good cables: stereovox xv ultra coax digital cable, kimber palladian power cord and kimber 1120 balanced interconnects on the Audio Research dac 8 4)All the equipment including the Touch is plugged into a Shunyata Hydra 8 Planned Setup: 1)Perform Soundcheck mods as posted on his tutorial 2)Plug the NAS and the router into a conditioner / filter. Thinking of Shunyata Hydra 2. If I use a UPS, the hydra will go into the APC 1000 on line UPS. Use an audiophile cable from the outlet to the Hydra 2. Not decided on the UPS as yet as I usually put the NAS off when not using it. 3)Change the power cable on the NAS to a decent audiophile cable like the KIMBER PK 10 gold 4)Change the power supply on the router and the touch to a linear power supply 5)Buy a bridge like WET 610N or use another router as a bridge (use ddwrt) and change the power supply to linear as well. Connect the touch to the Ethernet port of the bridge 6)Stream using wlan from the router connected to the NAS to the router connected to the touch Audiophiles may like the setup as it theoretically should isolate all the noise and result in a good / hopefully bit perfect output on the SPDIF output of the touch. The NAS will be in another room and the fan noise will not interrupt with the sound but we need the technically adept members of the forum to give us their input to see if the above will result in a better / bit perfect signal on the touch SPDIF output. Computer Audiophile in its review of the touch claims that the SPDIF output of the touch is bit perfect but I have my doubts as my ears are not HAPPY! Do not want to be in a situation where I go and buy the power supplies, etc only to find out that its of no use as my ears will still not be happy. Request everyone that is interested in getting a good sound using WLAN to study the above and give input. Or is there no way to get good sound using WLAN? This is a mystery to me! Thanks Well, here's my opinion. If you're using WLAN any server or (wireless) router mods are useless. First, if different OSs produce a different sound then one or all are not working properly - raise a support ticket or bug report. If over the network you open a spreadsheet from a Windows file server and it's different to the same spreadsheet opened from a Linux file server, that's a bug. Second, with WLAN there is no way an electrical filter on the computer end's power supply can impinge on the audio signal. Any questions about WLAN are negated if you buy a DAC that rejects jitter and noise (and some just do...deal with it!) If you're confident about the DAC rejecting jitter but not so confident about noise then use an optical cable. Or use a one box player which is designed properly (around here some people like the Transporter). This is the attraction of WLAN if you're paranoid in nature, it seems to me. There are no loose ends to worry about once you choose one of the several DACs or players available for purchase which are engineered properly. (Of course a lot of your boutique audiophile items are not...) What about wired LAN? This is what I don't get. It seems to me overkill to worry about WLAN. But paradoxically, wired LAN introduces an electrical connection between the computer server and the player and it is precisely that which requires apparently all sorts of gizmos and tweaks to deal with. If you're paranoid in nature using wired LAN is opening a whole can of paranoia worms! There's a whole lot of cleverness being talked about based on this flawed bit of logic. Put another way the imagined problems of wired LANs are numerous and complicated and expensive to deal with. The imagined problems of WLAN have a simple solution (see above). I'm outside of my comfort zone here. Refuting silliness is not my bag. If I did that all the time I would be refuting 24 hours a day! IMHO, if the cap fits wear it, etc. Darren --
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
darrenyeats;619207 Wrote: Well, here's my opinion. What about wired LAN? This is what I don't get. It seems to me overkill to worry about WLAN. But paradoxically, wired LAN introduces an electrical connection between the computer server and the player and it is precisely that which requires apparently all sorts of gizmos and tweaks to deal with. If you're paranoid in nature using wired LAN is opening a whole can of paranoia worms! There's a whole lot of cleverness being talked about based on this flawed bit of logic. Darren EXACTLY! This is what I do not get. When the SB was first reviewed in Stereophile, JA liked the fact that the server was in a different room and used WLAN to keep noise out of the audio signal. So I set up WLAN as well with the Benchmark DAC 1. Sound was good but the CD player was far superior. Changing the DAC improved the sound quite a bit but the BITE is still missing. And then, various forums: computer audiophile, etc, etc started raving about a wired connection: ETHERNET. This was a paradox to me as ETHERNET will open a new can of worms! Now it seems that to keep the worms to a minimum you need to use 2 routers. One at the NAS and one at the TOUCH and ensure the cables are CAT 5 or CAT 6 and that they are short as long cables introduce JITTER. Check out this article: http://www.ehow.com/how_2238303_deal-jitter-voip.html So it seems that the best solution would be to set up a WLAN backbone and then use a wired connection between the 2 routers and the NAS and touch. Now if I do this, I introduce switching power supplies in the audio signal via the power supplies of the routers. Switching power supplies = JITTER. So the next logical thing is to change the power supplies on the routers to linear and then plug these into a conditioner to get a clean audio signal. however, I am reluctant to try these solutions before getting feedback as it is no use spending the money if you do not get the expected results. perhaps I will check out the transporter as the cash outlay will be about the same and hopefully will get better sound! -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;619224 Wrote: Now it seems that to keep the worms to a minimum you need to use 2 routers. One at the NAS and one at the TOUCH and ensure the cables are CAT 5 or CAT 6 and that they are short as long cables introduce JITTER. There is no jitter involved in the networking between your NAS and the player, zero. That article you linked to is complete nonsense. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
andynormancx;619225 Wrote: There is no jitter involved in the networking between your NAS and the player, zero. That article you linked to is complete nonsense. Yep - that article is complete cr@p... and has no relevance at all to this forum or topic. OP: Back to ethernet... there are supposed to be isolating transformers at each end of an ethernet connection... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
After perusing this thread, I thought I would post a breakdown of what I have spent on my audiophile setup. These items are the money I have spent specifically to get good sound. Other costs, like my PC, network switches, remote control devices, etc. are not included because they are coincidental. (Note: Before the music reaches me, $millions is spent by artists and recording engineers to produce the music and the masters.) 1) $6000 over many years on CDs and lossless downloads 2) $300 on Squeezebox Touch 3) $500 on integrated amplifier with 24/192 Burr Brown DACs 4) $1400 on a pair of floor-standing speakers 5) $5000 on the listening room, furniture, and room treatments This quite neatly matches my humble opinion of the relative importance of each piece of the chain *to the sound*. I should add: 6) $priceless: adequate hearing; lucky to be one of the minority on this planet who can afford to do this; enough time and peace of mind to be able to sit down a couple of times a week and enjoy it. -- Henry66 Henry66's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
You can do all the clever stuff you like to the power for the NAS, but it won't make any changes to the data it delivers to the player. The Touch output is 100% bit perfect, as is are digital outputs on any other Squeezebox players when set to 100% volume with replaygain and fade in/out disabled. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
I have no Touch and love my Transporter but from reading all kinds of things making the Touch sounding better it must be a real broken design ;) -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
The weak link in all this is the ReadyNas NV\+. It is way underpowered for running SbS. The readynas Pro will be ok in this regard. The rest of your suggestions are mostly snake oil as the TOUCH will already have bit perfect data via the S/PDIF input. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Wombat;619014 Wrote: I have no Touch and love my Transporter but from reading all kinds of things making the Touch sounding better it must be a real broken design ;) You gotta love your Transporter. You paid a lot if money for it. ;) I guess not very many people have considered to tweak that device. The Touch is a great design. Kudos to the designers behind it. What this device delivers at such a pricetag is incredible. After a little tuning it'll catch up or even beat most of the stuff out there at any price. My SW tuning is free of charge. Network and PS tuning is affordable would do good to any device, even to your Transporter I'd guess. Again. The Touch, a little tweaked, must be considered a door opener into audiophile spheres, especially if used as Transport. By no means I would consider it a broken device. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
soundcheck;619028 Wrote: Again. The Touch, a little tweaked, must be considered a door opener into audiophile spheres, especially if used as Transport. By no means I'd consider it a broken device. I still want to see any measurement at the digital out that prooves any of these tweaks do change things in a positive way. Since i am in the audiophile section i can´t ask for serious listening A/B tests of cause. I doubt anyone has a setup here that allows a clean test setup to switch between mod/unmodded versions. I wonder how many claims about bettering tweaks will vanish under such circumstances. We have the sterophile reviewers here in this forum, so it would be fun if they can measure anything. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
dhinesh;618995 Wrote: Planned Setup: 1)Perform Soundcheck mods as posted on his tutorial 2)Plug the NAS and the router into a conditioner / filter. Thinking of Shunyata Hydra 2. If I use a UPS, the hydra will go into the APC 1000 on line UPS. Use an audiophile cable from the outlet to the Hydra 2. Not decided on the UPS as yet as I usually put the NAS off when not using it. 3)Change the power cable on the NAS to a decent audiophile cable like the KIMBER PK 10 gold 4)Change the power supply on the router and the touch to a linear power supply 5)Buy a bridge like WET 610N or use another router as a bridge (use ddwrt) and change the power supply to linear as well. Connect the touch to the Ethernet port of the bridge 6)Stream using wlan from the router connected to the NAS to the router connected to the touch Audiophiles may like the setup as it theoretically should isolate all the noise and result in a good / hopefully bit perfect output on the SPDIF output of the touch. The NAS will be in another room and the fan noise will not interrupt with the sound but we need the technically adept members of the forum to give us their input to see if the above will result in a better / bit perfect signal on the touch SPDIF output. Computer Audiophile in its review of the touch claims that the SPDIF output of the touch is bit perfect but I have my doubts as my ears are not HAPPY! Do not want to be in a situation where I go and buy the power supplies, etc only to find out that its of no use as my ears will still not be happy. Request everyone that is interested in getting a good sound using WLAN to study the above and give input. Or is there no way to get good sound using WLAN? This is a mystery to me! Thanks 1) not sure what these are 2) Worthless from an audio perspective. Good idea to plug into an APC SmartUPS or Liebert PSA UPS. 3) Worthless, not how bits work 4) Worthless, not how bits work 5) Worthless You seem to be introducing a ton of completely useless and worthless tweaks into a system that you do not understand. If these things could cause any effect to audio quality, your computer would not work. The only place you could see any improvement is in the DAC section. If you don't like the sound of the DAC you're using, get a different one. In all likelyhood, the difference is likely how hot the output of the DAC is compared to your CD player. Burn a 50% pink noise audio file to the CD and do a proper volume calibration between your SB+DAC and the CD player. I made some pink noise tracks and posted them here: http://ben.nerp.net/noise/ Get a SPL meter and make sure you get the same audio from both of your sources. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CM140/ -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Add up all the money you propose to spend on fancy power supplies, cables, NAS's and other voodoo. Spend it on a Transporter. Job done, right. -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
JezA;619070 Wrote: Add up all the money you propose to spend on fancy power supplies, cables, NAS's and other voodoo. Spend it on a Transporter. Job done, right. +1 to this Also on my top list of audio improvements: http://www.gooseisland.com -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
About tweaking in general i have learned my lessons. I was hunting after so much things bettering the sound of everything in my sound-chain. You can read some of my findings on diyaudio.com When i was at it i believed in everything i heard and was comfortable with it so i posted about. While you always change something at your system you get highered euphorics after every tweak, no place for scepticism! One day you have to realize that most of tweaking stuff simply happens in your head. The sound of a system changes from day to day due to mood and condition more as most tweaks ever can do. So this tweaking leads to nothing but the next tweak. Also somwhere here on this forum you can read how some black-gate NX obviously harmed my system with adding sibilance and other things. I was 100% sure they sound better as the original until i had a second transporter here a year later and was able to switch. You see i still believe in some things like caps and OP-Amps changing sound cause i really was able to compare things directly, especially speaker caps but about digital tweaking is written so much absurd stuff it nearly makes me feel sorry for the poor tweaker. I may add that sometimes i think people that have some strange sounding speakers do tweak most and never can be satisfied. They try to compensate these flaws with all kinds of doubtable tweaks. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
If the people who design and make products design and make them properly they shouldn't need tweaking. If they do need tweaking, why throw good money after bad? Why not just buy something that works right in the first place? -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
On 18/03/11 23:10, JezA wrote: If the people who design and make products design and make them properly they shouldn't need tweaking. If they do need tweaking, why throw good money after bad? Why not just buy something that works right in the first place? I don't disagree with your sentiment, but commercial products are usually built to a cost, ie. compromises are made in the design process. If money were no object then yes, the product designers should make them properly in the first place. But that rarely happens, if ever. And certainly not on a mass-market product. R. -- Feed that ego and you starve the soul - Colonel J.D. Wilkes http://www.theshackshakers.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
On 03/18/2011 07:10 PM, JezA wrote: If the people who design and make products design and make them properly they shouldn't need tweaking. If they do need tweaking, why throw good money after bad? Why not just buy something that works right in the first place? I don't agree with this as a general concept. Any design has tradeoffs. Consider the hot-rod hobby, they modify cars to make them suit personal needs, often getting more horsepower and torque by trading off fuel economy or reliability. Its not hard to take a mass market American V8 and get 500 or even 600 HP out of it, but it will not last 100,000 miles. There is truth to the old can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear but sometimes, a few tweaks can make a serious difference. For me, stereo is about the music, not the gear, and I have no interest in tweaks other than properly positioning my speakers. YMMV -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
I agree that many designs have trade-offs. But in the context of this thread, where the o/p was trying to improve a Touch by (among other things) changing the power cable on his NAS, I am trying to suggest that, in the first instance, the best people to improve a Touch are Logitech themselves; the Touch is designed to one price, a Transporter to a considerably higher price so is more likely to offer an improvement than 3rd party products. Perhaps there are ways of improving a Transporter too. (Though if a mains cable on a NAS did so, I would be very worried). -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
I shouldn´t have joined that thread maybe but how people find the Touch reacting on so many magic tweaks only to sound much better at the digital out is just insane. People describe differences sometimes that even some totaly different speaker models will have problems to archive :) I bet 90% of these people wouldn´t pass an abx test of a Squeezebox Classic to their Touch feeding a DAC over digital out... -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Wombat;619035 Wrote: I wonder how many claims about bettering tweaks will vanish under such circumstances. EVERYTHING pretty much vanishes under the double blind ABX test circumstances. That's the fact that invalidates such a clever test. You can read up on it all over the web -- people. experienced audiophiles, have reportedly never been able to pass ANY ABX tests with better than 51% batting average. Even when comparing shitty, $20 DVD players against multi thousand dollars players, or bottom line power amps with ten thousand dollars power amps, under ABX regime all the differences mysteriously melt away. In many reported cases, the test subjects would've achieved pretty much the same results had they simply chosen to toss a coin. It's a fact, try it for yourself. Take the best component you can find, pair it up with the shittiest one, and run the two components through double blind ABX. 7 times out of 15, you'll be wrong. 8 times out of 15, you'll be right. Or vice versa, same difference basically. Same goes for pretty much anybody else who'd be willing to join you in the testing exercise. That, plus, as I've mentioned, there is a huge body of already published evidence that pretty much exposes the same interesting phenomenon. Does this mean that we're just a bunch of jerks who are imagining that, upon paying lots of money, we get our money's worth? Draw the conclusions for yourself... -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
magiccarpetride;619097 Wrote: Does this mean that we're just a bunch of jerks who are imagining that, upon paying lots of money, we get our money's worth? Draw the conclusions for yourself... I did abx tests 10 years back mcr and i passed several, so your assumption here may hit the nail on the head. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
JezA;619084 Wrote: If the people who design and make products design and make them properly they shouldn't need tweaking. If they do need tweaking, why throw good money after bad? Why not just buy something that works right in the first place? This is wrong. Touch was designed to attract mainstream market, not audiophiles. Hence they threw in a cheap-ass touch screen, as candy coating on a product. But, from the audio quality perspective, that touch screen is criminally bad, as it degrades the sound quality. Hence, we tweak the original product and disable the noisy screen, because we care about the sound, not about the ability to touch a shiny colorful screen (most of us are grown up men, who have reached the age of maturity;) Or maybe not? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
Wombat;619098 Wrote: I did abx tests 10 years back mcr and i passed several, so your assumption here may hit the nail on the head. I'm sure you have the gold trophy that you proudly display on your mantelpiece. Also, I'm sure there is a wikipedia entry that celebrates your ABX accomplishments. Can you send us the link? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
magiccarpetride;619100 Wrote: I'm sure you have the gold trophy that you proudly display on your mantelpiece. Also, I'm sure there is a wikipedia entry that celebrates your ABX accomplishments. Can you send us the link? What you talk about? I have delivered several samples for tuning mp3 and lame developement over the years. This alone did get me involved in abx testing. You have ~300 posts without any hint about you have a clue about the things you talk. You behave all the time in a Trolling way. To bad this forum isn´t moderated a bit more. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
SuperQ;619050 Wrote: 1) not sure what these are 2) Worthless from an audio perspective. Good idea to plug into an APC SmartUPS or Liebert PSA UPS. 3) Worthless, not how bits work 4) Worthless, not how bits work 5) Worthless You seem to be introducing a ton of completely useless and worthless tweaks into a system that you do not understand. If these things could cause any effect to audio quality, your computer would not work. The only place you could see any improvement is in the DAC section. If you don't like the sound of the DAC you're using, get a different one. In all likelyhood, the difference is likely how hot the output of the DAC is compared to your CD player. Burn a 50% pink noise audio file to the CD and do a proper volume calibration between your SB+DAC and the CD player. I made some pink noise tracks and posted them here: http://ben.nerp.net/noise/ Get a SPL meter and make sure you get the same audio from both of your sources. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CM140/ 1) Check out: http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html Dac is very good. Was using a benchmark dac1 and changed it for the audio research dac 8. It sounds great when the digital out from the CD player is plugged into it. Unfortunately, with the touch I am not happy. The Dac is very high end. Quite a few members on the diyaudio forum reported better sound using a wired setup and 1 reported that using a bridge like ddwrt and using two identical routers resulted in an improvement in sound. Lets get more responses from audiophiles! -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
magiccarpetride;619099 Wrote: This is wrong. Touch was designed to attract mainstream market, not audiophiles. Hence they threw in a cheap-ass touch screen, as candy coating on a product. But, from the audio quality perspective, that touch screen is criminally bad, as it degrades the sound quality. Hence, we tweak the original product and disable the noisy screen, because we care about the sound, not about the ability to touch a shiny colorful screen (most of us are grown up men, who have reached the age of maturity;) Or maybe not? absolutely! in fact this is one of the mods on soundchecks blog: http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html -- dhinesh Squeezebox Touch, Duet and Classic, Ayre C 5 XE MP CD Player, Audio Research Ref 5 Preamp, Audio Research Dac 8, Mark Levinson No 436 Monoblocks, Shunyata Hydra, Cables: Shunyata Anaconda, Kimber Palladian, Stereovox Ultra digital cable dhinesh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12813 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] squeezebox setup for audiophiles
magiccarpetride;619097 Wrote: EVERYTHING pretty much vanishes under the double blind ABX test circumstances. That's the fact that invalidates such a clever test. That's just... not true at all. First of all, I personally have taken a fair number of ABX tests. Some I passed, some I failed. One thing I learned very quickly is that it's pretty easy to THINK you hear a difference, and then fail to be able to identify it blind. But after a while, you start to get a handle on when you really hear it and when your mind is playing tricks on you. You can download free software that's very easy to use and will let you ABX two files. I spent some time doing that comparing different lossy compression algorithms and bitdepths. From that experience alone, I can say it's absolutely not the case that EVERYTHING vanishes. Quite the contrary, it's very easy to hear differences at low-ish bit rates. Second, there's an entire body of hearing and psychoacoustic scientific literature in which blind hearing tests are a basic tool. Did you think the last century or so of careful research on that topic was conducted using sighted tests? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86419 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
