Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-29 Thread Mike Borgelt 
CASA doesn't have any money that isn't obtained 
from user fees and a small amount from 
consolidated revenue. If CASA pays WE pay.


Mike


At 08:54 AM 3/30/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_003D_01D2A93B.9F1FED40"
Content-Language: en-au

As CASA is the party requiring them, CASA should pay!

Regards,

Roger Browne

From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Colin Collum

Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 9:17 AM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March


Strictly speaking the tests involved in aviation 
medicals are screening rather than diagnostic 
and as such should not be billed to the health 
system but paid for directly by the recipient.


Regards,

Colin

--
From: Aus-soaring 
<<mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au> 
on behalf of Jo Pocklington 
<<mailto:jopockling...@bigpond.com>jopockling...@bigpond.com>

Sent: 29 March 2017 16:15:35
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

Not only the RAMPC, AvMed creates an impost on 
the Australian health system with unnecessary 
tests in relation to Class 2 applications. 
Former CASA Director of Aviation Medicine, from 
1988 to 1997, Dr Robert Liddell stated in his 
Aviation Safety Regulation Review Submission 
(Feb 2014) that:  "... When their DAME and their 
specialist believe they meet the risk target for 
certification without endless further testing 
demanded by CASA and the advice of their own 
specialist is ignored by the regulator then 
pilots lose confidence in the regulator...".  Regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[<mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Greg Wilson

Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2017 3:58 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

For those of you wishing to email your AVMED 
discussion response to the minister, his email address is


Darren Chester 
MP<<mailto:darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>


You may also like to ask the transport minister 
to ask the Health Minister (Hon Greg Hunt MP – 
Minister for Health and Minister for Sport) 
about the impact on testing for the onerous RAMPC on medical GPs.


Cheers,

Greg Wilson


 On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:30:37 +1100 Noel 
Roediger 
<<mailto:roedi...@internode.on.net>roedi...@internode.on.net> wrote 

Dear Jo.

Sincere thanks from me – and I’m sure from all 
others re your advice on the AVMed issue.


I’ve prepared a loaded  response that will put a 
bee up their bum but won’t send until Bev wakes 
and vetts it tomorrow and then I’ll copy to this site.


Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off site.

Love

Noel.

From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Jo Pocklington

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

You could simply say something like "the AOPA 
proposal dated 23 August 2016 regarding Class 2 
Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[<mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Peter Champness

Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

Thanks,

Is there a generic reply which I could copy?

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington 
<<mailto:jopockling...@bigpond.com>jopockling...@bigpond.com> wrote:


Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & 
RA-Aus submissions are not yet available.  AOPA 
put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 
(attached), which many are supporting.


GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though 
they can operate on an RAMPC, RAMPC requires 
fulfilling unconditional private driver licence 
requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in 
a medical history form + only being eligible in 
the absence of certain conditions - although 
these conditions do not preclude an 
unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ 
disqualifying conditions for an RAMPC including 
a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, coronary 
bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated 
diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore 
more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a 
healthy private pilot with a recent history of 
prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, 
but that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty 
obtaining a Cla

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-29 Thread Roger Browne 
As CASA is the party requiring them, CASA should pay!

 

Regards,

 

Roger Browne

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of Colin Collum
Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 9:17 AM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

Strictly speaking the tests involved in aviation medicals are screening
rather than diagnostic and as such should not be billed to the health system
but paid for directly by the recipient.

Regards,

Colin

  _  

From: Aus-soaring <aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au> on behalf of Jo
Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com>
Sent: 29 March 2017 16:15:35
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March 

 

Not only the RAMPC, AvMed creates an impost on the Australian health system
with unnecessary tests in relation to Class 2 applications. Former CASA
Director of Aviation Medicine, from 1988 to 1997, Dr Robert Liddell stated
in his Aviation Safety Regulation Review Submission (Feb 2014) that:  "...
When their DAME and their specialist believe they meet the risk target for
certification without endless further testing demanded by CASA and the
advice of their own specialist is ignored by the regulator then pilots lose
confidence in the regulator...".  Regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of Greg Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2017 3:58 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

For those of you wishing to email your AVMED discussion response to the
minister, his email address is 

Darren Chester MP<darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>

You may also like to ask the transport minister to ask the Health Minister
(Hon Greg Hunt MP - Minister for Health and Minister for Sport) about the
impact on testing for the onerous RAMPC on medical GPs.

Cheers,


Greg Wilson

 


 On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:30:37 +1100 Noel Roediger
<roedi...@internode.on.net> wrote  

Dear Jo.

 

Sincere thanks from me - and I'm sure from all others re your advice on the
AVMed issue.

 

I've prepared a loaded  response that will put a bee up their bum but won't
send until Bev wakes and vetts it tomorrow and then I'll copy to this site.

 

Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off
site.

 

Love

 

Noel.

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of Jo Pocklington
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

You could simply say something like "the AOPA proposal dated 23 August 2016
regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me" - regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of Peter Champness
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

Thanks,

 

Is there a generic reply which I could copy? 

 

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com>
wrote:

Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are not
yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 (attached),
which many are supporting. 

GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an RAMPC,
RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence requirements
+ a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form + only being
eligible in the absence of certain conditions - although these conditions do
not preclude an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying
conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, angina,
coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated diabetes, sleep
apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a
healthy private pilot with a recent history of prostate cancer is ineligible
to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a
Class 2 Medical Certificate. 

Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject line:
'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of Mike Borgelt
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper


OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current discussion
paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).

If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC to
fly gliders. You can go to recreat

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-29 Thread Mike Borgelt 

At 08:16 AM 3/30/2017, you wrote:


Strictly speaking the tests involved in aviation 
medicals are screening rather than diagnostic 
and as such should not be billed to the health 
system but paid for directly by the recipient.


Regards,

Colin


As far as I know they are paid for by the 
applicant, however this is irrelevant as the 
overall system (labs, GPs, Specialists) is still 
carrying the extra load of the unnecessary testing.

Or does our health system have so much slack that it doesn't matter?

Mike





--
From: Aus-soaring 
<aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au> on 
behalf of Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com>

Sent: 29 March 2017 16:15:35
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

Not only the RAMPC, AvMed creates an impost on 
the Australian health system with unnecessary 
tests in relation to Class 2 applications. 
Former CASA Director of Aviation Medicine, from 
1988 to 1997, Dr Robert Liddell stated in his 
Aviation Safety Regulation Review Submission 
(Feb 2014) that:  "... When their DAME and their 
specialist believe they meet the risk target for 
certification without endless further testing 
demanded by CASA and the advice of their own 
specialist is ignored by the regulator then 
pilots lose confidence in the regulator...".  Regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Greg Wilson

Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2017 3:58 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

For those of you wishing to email your AVMED 
discussion response to the minister, his email address is


Darren Chester 
MP<<mailto:darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>


You may also like to ask the transport minister 
to ask the Health Minister (Hon Greg Hunt MP – 
Minister for Health and Minister for Sport) 
about the impact on testing for the onerous RAMPC on medical GPs.


Cheers,

Greg Wilson



 On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:30:37 +1100 Noel 
Roediger 
<<mailto:roedi...@internode.on.net>roedi...@internode.on.net> wrote 

Dear Jo.

Sincere thanks from me – and I’m sure from all 
others re your advice on the AVMed issue.


I’ve prepared a loaded  response that will put a 
bee up their bum but won’t send until Bev wakes 
and vetts it tomorrow and then I’ll copy to this site.


Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off site.

Love

Noel.

From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Jo Pocklington

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

You could simply say something like "the AOPA 
proposal dated 23 August 2016 regarding Class 2 
Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[<mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Peter Champness

Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

Thanks,

Is there a generic reply which I could copy?

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington 
<<mailto:jopockling...@bigpond.com>jopockling...@bigpond.com> wrote:


Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & 
RA-Aus submissions are not yet available.  AOPA 
put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 
(attached), which many are supporting.


GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though 
they can operate on an RAMPC, RAMPC requires 
fulfilling unconditional private driver licence 
requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in 
a medical history form + only being eligible in 
the absence of certain conditions - although 
these conditions do not preclude an 
unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ 
disqualifying conditions for an RAMPC including 
a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, coronary 
bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated 
diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore 
more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a 
healthy private pilot with a recent history of 
prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, 
but that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty 
obtaining a Class 2 Medical Certificate.


Submissions to 
<mailto:avmed...@casa.gov.au>avmed...@casa.gov.au 
 and should include in the subject line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper

OK how many have put in a submission to CASA 
Avmed re the current

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-29 Thread Mark Newton 
They are.

  - mark


On 30 Mar 2017, at 9:16 AM, Colin Collum <crcol...@melbpc.org.au> wrote:
> 
> Strictly speaking the tests involved in aviation medicals are screening 
> rather than diagnostic and as such should not be billed to the health system 
> but paid for directly by the recipient.
> Regards,
> Colin
> From: Aus-soaring <aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au> on behalf of Jo 
> Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com>
> Sent: 29 March 2017 16:15:35
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March
>  
> Not only the RAMPC, AvMed creates an impost on the Australian health system 
> with unnecessary tests in relation to Class 2 applications. Former CASA 
> Director of Aviation Medicine, from 1988 to 1997, Dr Robert Liddell stated in 
> his Aviation Safety Regulation Review Submission (Feb 2014) that:  "... When 
> their DAME and their specialist believe they meet the risk target for 
> certification without endless further testing demanded by CASA and the advice 
> of their own specialist is ignored by the regulator then pilots lose 
> confidence in the regulator...".  Regards Jo
>   <>
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf 
> Of Greg Wilson
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2017 3:58 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March
>  
> For those of you wishing to email your AVMED discussion response to the 
> minister, his email address is 
> 
> Darren Chester MP<darren.chester...@aph.gov.au 
> <mailto:darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>>
> 
> You may also like to ask the transport minister to ask the Health Minister 
> (Hon Greg Hunt MP – Minister for Health and Minister for Sport) about the 
> impact on testing for the onerous RAMPC on medical GPs.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Greg Wilson
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:30:37 +1100 Noel Roediger 
> <roedi...@internode.on.net <mailto:roedi...@internode.on.net>> wrote 
> Dear Jo.
>  
> Sincere thanks from me – and I’m sure from all others re your advice on the 
> AVMed issue.
>  
> I’ve prepared a loaded  response that will put a bee up their bum but won’t 
> send until Bev wakes and vetts it tomorrow and then I’ll copy to this site.
>  
> Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off site.
>  
> Love
>  
> Noel.
>  
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au 
> <mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>] On Behalf Of Jo Pocklington
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March
>  
> You could simply say something like "the AOPA proposal dated 23 August 2016 
> regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo
>  
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au 
> <mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>] On Behalf Of Peter Champness
> Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Is there a generic reply which I could copy? 
>  
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com 
> <mailto:jopockling...@bigpond.com>> wrote:
> Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are not 
> yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 (attached), 
> which many are supporting. 
> GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an RAMPC, 
> RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence requirements + 
> a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form + only being eligible 
> in the absence of certain conditions - although these conditions do not 
> preclude an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying 
> conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, 
> coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated diabetes, sleep 
> apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a 
> healthy private pilot with a recent history of prostate cancer is ineligible 
> to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a 
> Class 2 Medical Certificate. 
> Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au <mailto:avmed...@casa.gov.au> and should 
> include in the subject line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards J

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-29 Thread Noel Roediger 
Bev reckoned I was sailing too close to the wind so, for the time being, I’ve 
deleted the anus prick.

 

Noel.   

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Noel Roediger
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 10:01 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

Dear Jo.

 

Sincere thanks from me – and I’m sure from all others re your advice on the 
AVMed issue.

 

I’ve prepared a loaded  response that will put a bee up their bum but won’t 
send until Bev wakes and vetts it tomorrow and then I’ll copy to this site.

 

Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off site.

 

Love

 

Noel.

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Jo Pocklington
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

You could simply say something like "the AOPA proposal dated 23 August 2016 
regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Peter Champness
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

Thanks,

 

Is there a generic reply which I could copy? 

 

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com> 
wrote:

Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are not yet 
available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 (attached), which 
many are supporting. 

GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an RAMPC, 
RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence requirements + a 
visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form + only being eligible in 
the absence of certain conditions - although these conditions do not preclude 
an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying conditions for 
an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, coronary bypass 
surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is 
therefore more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot 
with a recent history of prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but 
that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical 
Certificate. 

Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject line:  
'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Mike Borgelt
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper


OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current discussion 
paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).

If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC to 
fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble that 
causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial reasons 
you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.

If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA 
proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all bitching 
rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.

Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation 
since 1978
www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> 
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 
<tel:+61%207%204635%205784> 
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring

 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-29 Thread Mike Borgelt 



Someone still has confidence in CASA at all? Who knew?

Mike



At 03:15 PM 3/29/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_001A_01D2A8A7.B32E81A0"
Content-Language: en-au

Not only the RAMPC, AvMed creates an impost on 
the Australian health system with unnecessary 
tests in relation to Class 2 applications. 
Former CASA Director of Aviation Medicine, from 
1988 to 1997, Dr Robert Liddell stated in his 
Aviation Safety Regulation Review Submission 
(Feb 2014) that:Â  "... When their DAME and 
their specialist believe they meet the risk 
target for certification without endless further 
testing demanded by CASA and the advice of their 
own specialist is ignored by the regulator then 
pilots lose confidence in the regulator...".  Regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Greg Wilson

Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2017 3:58 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

For those of you wishing to email your AVMED 
discussion response to the minister, his email address is


Darren Chester 
MP<<mailto:darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>


You may also like to ask the transport minister 
to ask the Health Minister (Hon Greg Hunt MP – 
Minister for Health and Minister for Sport) 
about the impact on testing for the onerous RAMPC on medical GPs.


Cheers,

Greg Wilson



 On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:30:37 +1100 Noel 
Roediger 
<<mailto:roedi...@internode.on.net>roedi...@internode.on.net> wrote 

Dear Jo.

Sincere thanks from me – and I’m sure from all 
others re your advice on the AVMed issue.


I’ve prepared a loaded  response that will put 
a bee up their bum but won’t send until Bev 
wakes and vetts it tomorrow and then I’ll copy to this site.


Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off site.

Love

Noel.

From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Jo Pocklington

Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

You could simply say something like "the AOPA 
proposal dated 23 August 2016 regarding Class 2 
Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[<mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au>mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Peter Champness

Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

Thanks,

Is there a generic reply which I could copy?

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington 
<<mailto:jopockling...@bigpond.com>jopockling...@bigpond.com> wrote:


Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & 
RA-Aus submissions are not yet available.  AOPA 
put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 
(attached), which many are supporting.


GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though 
they can operate on an RAMPC, RAMPC requires 
fulfilling unconditional private driver licence 
requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in 
a medical history form + only being eligible in 
the absence of certain conditions - although 
these conditions do not preclude an 
unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ 
disqualifying conditions for an RAMPC including 
a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, coronary 
bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated 
diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore 
more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a 
healthy private pilot with a recent history of 
prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, 
but that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty 
obtaining a Class 2 Medical Certificate.


Submissions to 
<mailto:avmed...@casa.gov.au>avmed...@casa.gov.au 
 and should include in the subject line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper

OK how many have put in a submission to CASA 
Avmed re the current discussion paper? You have 
until 31st March.(the end of this week).


If you don't, there is a possibility you will be 
required to have a RAMPC to fly gliders. You can 
go to 
<http://recreationalflying.com>recreationalflying.com 
to see the trouble that causes because if you 
can't get one for a number of relatively trivial 
reasons you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.


If you don't put in a submission, preferably in 
strong support of the AOPA proposal which has 
been linked to here a while ago you get to lose 
all bitching rights and sympathy whe

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-28 Thread Jo Pocklington 
Not only the RAMPC, AvMed creates an impost on the Australian health system 
with unnecessary tests in relation to Class 2 applications. Former CASA 
Director of Aviation Medicine, from 1988 to 1997, Dr Robert Liddell stated in 
his Aviation Safety Regulation Review Submission (Feb 2014) that:  "... When 
their DAME and their specialist believe they meet the risk target for 
certification without endless further testing demanded by CASA and the advice 
of their own specialist is ignored by the regulator then pilots lose confidence 
in the regulator...".  Regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Greg Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2017 3:58 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

For those of you wishing to email your AVMED discussion response to the 
minister, his email address is 

Darren Chester MP<darren.chester...@aph.gov.au>

You may also like to ask the transport minister to ask the Health Minister (Hon 
Greg Hunt MP – Minister for Health and Minister for Sport) about the impact on 
testing for the onerous RAMPC on medical GPs.

Cheers,


Greg Wilson



 


 On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:30:37 +1100 Noel Roediger 
<roedi...@internode.on.net> wrote  

Dear Jo.

 

Sincere thanks from me – and I’m sure from all others re your advice on the 
AVMed issue.

 

I’ve prepared a loaded  response that will put a bee up their bum but won’t 
send until Bev wakes and vetts it tomorrow and then I’ll copy to this site.

 

Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off site.

 

Love

 

Noel.

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Jo Pocklington
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

You could simply say something like "the AOPA proposal dated 23 August 2016 
regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Peter Champness
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

Thanks,

 

Is there a generic reply which I could copy? 

 

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com> 
wrote:

Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are not yet 
available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 (attached), which 
many are supporting. 

GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an RAMPC, 
RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence requirements + a 
visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form + only being eligible in 
the absence of certain conditions - although these conditions do not preclude 
an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying conditions for 
an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, coronary bypass 
surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is 
therefore more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot 
with a recent history of prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but 
that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical 
Certificate. 

Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject line:  
'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Mike Borgelt
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper


OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current discussion 
paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).

If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC to 
fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble that 
causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial reasons 
you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.

If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA 
proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all bitching 
rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.

Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation 
since 1978
www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> 
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 


___
Aus-soari

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-28 Thread Greg Wilson 
For those of you wishing to email your AVMED discussion response to the 
minister, his email address is 

Darren Chester MPdarren.chester...@aph.gov.au

You may also like to ask the transport minister to ask the Health Minister (Hon 
Greg Hunt MP – Minister for Health and Minister for Sport) about the impact on 
testing for the onerous RAMPC on medical GPs.

Cheers,

Greg Wilson





 On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:30:37 +1100 Noel Roediger 
roedi...@internode.on.net wrote  

Dear Jo.
 
Sincere thanks from me – and I’m sure from all others re your advice on the 
AVMed issue.
 
I’ve prepared a loaded  response that will put a bee up their bum but won’t 
send until Bev wakes and vetts it tomorrow and then I’ll copy to this site.
 
Can you fwd. your private email address please so we can communicate off site.
 
Love
 
Noel.
 
From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Jo Pocklington
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 6:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March


 
You could simply say something like "the AOPA proposal dated 23 August 2016 
regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo
 
From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Peter Champness
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 
Thanks,
 

Is there a generic reply which I could copy? 


 
On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington 
jopockling...@bigpond.com wrote:
Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA  RA-Aus submissions are not 
yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 (attached), which 
many are supporting. 
GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an RAMPC, 
RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence requirements + a 
visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form + only being eligible in 
the absence of certain conditions - although these conditions do not preclude 
an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying conditions for 
an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, coronary bypass 
surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is 
therefore more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot 
with a recent history of prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but 
that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical 
Certificate. 
Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject line:  
'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo
 
From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Mike Borgelt
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper



OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current discussion 
paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).

If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC to 
fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble that 
causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial reasons 
you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.

If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA 
proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all bitching 
rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.

Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - design  manufacture of quality soaring 
instrumentation since 1978
www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 



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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-28 Thread Mark Newton 
On 28 Mar 2017, at 4:45 PM, Mike Borgelt  
wrote:
> 
> Yeah Number 4. “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule 
> is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them 
> with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. 
> 
> Alinsky's Rules for radicals.

This is why when you’re writing a letter to a Minister about a Government 
policy you wish to delay or block, it’s good to ask how the policy affects 
other Ministers in other portfolios.

They can’t answer the question without forwarding your letter to the second 
Minister, so you end up doubling the amount of work they have to do to answer 
your letter. :-)

“Don’t waste your time, waste theirs.”
https://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/16/dont-waste-your-time-waste-theirs-a-guide-to-writing-to-ministers/
 


Thinking about this in the context of Part 149 :-)

   - mark


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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mike Borgelt 
Yeah Number 4. “Make the enemy live up to its own 
book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter 
gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill 
them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.


Alinsky's Rules for radicals.

Mike



At 01:39 PM 3/28/2017, you wrote:

I completely understand this.

But his advice to hold CASA’s feet to the fire 
about adherence to their own principles remains a good one.


  - mark

On Mar 28, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Mike Borgelt 
<mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> 
wrote:


Jonathan Aleck is the problem at CASA, not any 
kind of solution. Has been for a long time. His 
nickname is "the witchdoctor". Skidmore managed 
to tell a porkie at a Senate hearing into the 
Jabiru engine debacle. I wonder why? Left soon after



Mike

At 01:04 PM 3/28/2017, you wrote:
I had a 1:1 meeting with Jonathan Aleck this 
morning, on the subject of their newly touted 
“Regulatory Philosophy.”


Aleck wrote the policy document, and says he’s quite proud of it:
https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/standard-page/our-regulatory-philosophy 



(the meeting arose because I challenged 
CASA’s stakeholder engagement people 
about how item 8, “Just culture,” 
applied to CASA’s actions in relation to 
Fadlalla and Civil Aviation Safety Authority 
[2015] AATA 331 (15 May 2015), in which a two 
judge Administrative Appeals Tribunal 
systematically eviscerated CASA for 
enforcement overreach, bad-faith heavy 
handedness, and outright fabricating 
allegations against a student pilot in an 
attempt to get his license cancelled after a 
mistake in his flight planning caused him to 
arrive at Jandakot 3 minutes after last light. 
If you have an hour to spare, have a read of 
the 107 paragraph decision, and marvel at how 
a judge can so comprehensively dismantle an 
out of control regulator: 
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2015/331.html 
)


Aleck's intention is that for each action CASA 
takes, whether it’s enforcement, 
regulatory drafting, or policymaking, the 
person within CASA who is implementing the 
action should be able to explain how it is 
consistent with the ten points laid out in the 
statement on their website. His staff are 
running internal training across the country for CASA employees.


His expectation is that where that can’t 
or doesn’t happen, people like us will — and should — demand better.


I don’t think it’s possible to 
defend the AVMed status quo against those ten 
principles. Specifically, class 2 medicals for 
private pilots offend items 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 
and 9; and since the UK and US liberalized 
their private medicals, there’s probably 
an argument to be had about item 4 too.


Have at it. Two days left.

  - mark

On Mar 28, 2017, at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt 
< 
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:


Excellent. So send in your comments to CASA 
and also print out and send by snail mail to the Minister.


Make a pile of paper on his mail room desk. More impressive than emails.

Here are his contact details: 
http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/chester/contact.aspx


Mike




At 11:02 AM 3/28/2017, you wrote:

I support the AOPA proposal and the US treatment of Class 2 medicals.

I too recently did my Class 2 medical.

I discussed with the DAME how the RAMPC 
requirements restrict to single engine ops, 
less than 1,500kg, only 1 pax, and ops below 
10,000’ AMSL. He agrees that 
there is there is no science behind this.


At least in the US the proposed Class 
2  allows multi engine ops, IFR, Night.


I know that many DAMEs also want change.

Regards

Michael



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Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of 
quality soaring instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
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quality soaring instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mark Newton 
I completely understand this.

But his advice to hold CASA’s feet to the fire about adherence to their own 
principles remains a good one.

  - mark

On Mar 28, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Mike Borgelt  
wrote:
> 
> Jonathan Aleck is the problem at CASA, not any kind of solution. Has been for 
> a long time. His nickname is "the witchdoctor". Skidmore managed to tell a 
> porkie at a Senate hearing into the Jabiru engine debacle. I wonder why? Left 
> soon after
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> At 01:04 PM 3/28/2017, you wrote:
>> I had a 1:1 meeting with Jonathan Aleck this morning, on the subject of 
>> their newly touted “Regulatory Philosophy.”
>> 
>> Aleck wrote the policy document, and says he’s quite proud of it:
>> https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/standard-page/our-regulatory-philosophy 
>>  
>> 
>> (the meeting arose because I challenged CASA’s stakeholder engagement 
>> people about how item 8, “Just culture,” applied to CASA’s actions in 
>> relation to Fadlalla and Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2015] AATA 331 (15 
>> May 2015), in which a two judge Administrative Appeals Tribunal 
>> systematically eviscerated CASA for enforcement overreach, bad-faith heavy 
>> handedness, and outright fabricating allegations against a student pilot in 
>> an attempt to get his license cancelled after a mistake in his flight 
>> planning caused him to arrive at Jandakot 3 minutes after last light. If you 
>> have an hour to spare, have a read of the 107 paragraph decision, and marvel 
>> at how a judge can so comprehensively dismantle an out of control regulator: 
>> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2015/331.html 
>>  
>> )
>> 
>> Aleck's intention is that for each action CASA takes, whether it’s 
>> enforcement, regulatory drafting, or policymaking, the person within CASA 
>> who is implementing the action should be able to explain how it is 
>> consistent with the ten points laid out in the statement on their website. 
>> His staff are running internal training across the country for CASA 
>> employees. 
>> 
>> His expectation is that where that can’t or doesn’t happen, people like 
>> us will — and should — demand better. 
>> 
>> I don’t think it’s possible to defend the AVMed status quo against those 
>> ten principles. Specifically, class 2 medicals for private pilots offend 
>> items 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9; and since the UK and US liberalized their 
>> private medicals, there’s probably an argument to be had about item 4 too.
>> 
>> Have at it. Two days left.
>> 
>>   - mark
>> 
>>> On Mar 28, 2017, at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt < 
>>> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Excellent. So send in your comments to CASA and also print out and send by 
>>> snail mail to the Minister.
>>> 
>>> Make a pile of paper on his mail room desk. More impressive than emails.
>>> 
>>> Here are his contact details: 
>>> http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/chester/contact.aspx 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 11:02 AM 3/28/2017, you wrote:
 I support the AOPA proposal and the US treatment of Class 2 medicals.
 
 I too recently did my Class 2 medical.
 
 I discussed with the DAME how the RAMPC requirements restrict to single 
 engine ops, less than 1,500kg, only 1 pax, and ops below 10,000’ 
 AMSL. He agrees that there is there is no science behind this.
 
 At least in the US the proposed Class 2  allows multi engine ops, IFR, 
 Night.
 
 I know that many DAMEs also want change.
 
 Regards
 
 Michael
 
 
 
 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list 
 Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au 
 http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
  
>>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring 
>>> instrumentation since 1978
>>> www.borgeltinstruments.com 
>>> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
>>> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 
>>> ___
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>>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au 
>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring 
>>> 
>> ___
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>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au 
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring 
>>

Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mike Borgelt 
Jonathan Aleck is the problem at CASA, not any 
kind of solution. Has been for a long time. His 
nickname is "the witchdoctor". Skidmore managed 
to tell a porkie at a Senate hearing into the 
Jabiru engine debacle. I wonder why? Left soon after



Mike

At 01:04 PM 3/28/2017, you wrote:
I had a 1:1 meeting with Jonathan Aleck this 
morning, on the subject of their newly touted “Regulatory Philosophy.”


Aleck wrote the policy document, and says he’s quite proud of it:
https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/standard-page/our-regulatory-philosophy

(the meeting arose because I challenged CASA’s 
stakeholder engagement people about how item 8, 
“Just culture,” applied to CASA’s actions 
in relation to Fadlalla and Civil Aviation 
Safety Authority [2015] AATA 331 (15 May 2015), 
in which a two judge Administrative Appeals 
Tribunal systematically eviscerated CASA for 
enforcement overreach, bad-faith heavy 
handedness, and outright fabricating allegations 
against a student pilot in an attempt to get his 
license cancelled after a mistake in his flight 
planning caused him to arrive at Jandakot 3 
minutes after last light. If you have an hour to 
spare, have a read of the 107 paragraph 
decision, and marvel at how a judge can so 
comprehensively dismantle an out of control 
regulator: 
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2015/331.html 
)


Aleck's intention is that for each action CASA 
takes, whether it’s enforcement, regulatory 
drafting, or policymaking, the person within 
CASA who is implementing the action should be 
able to explain how it is consistent with the 
ten points laid out in the statement on their 
website. His staff are running internal training 
across the country for CASA employees.


His expectation is that where that can’t or 
doesn’t happen, people like us will — and should — demand better.


I don’t think it’s possible to defend the 
AVMed status quo against those ten principles. 
Specifically, class 2 medicals for private 
pilots offend items 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9; and 
since the UK and US liberalized their private 
medicals, there’s probably an argument to be had about item 4 too.


Have at it. Two days left.

  - mark

On Mar 28, 2017, at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt 
<mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> 
wrote:


Excellent. So send in your comments to CASA and 
also print out and send by snail mail to the Minister.


Make a pile of paper on his mail room desk. More impressive than emails.

Here are his contact details: 
http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/chester/contact.aspx


Mike




At 11:02 AM 3/28/2017, you wrote:

I support the AOPA proposal and the US treatment of Class 2 medicals.

I too recently did my Class 2 medical.

I discussed with the DAME how the RAMPC 
requirements restrict to single engine ops, 
less than 1,500kg, only 1 pax, and ops below 
10,000’ AMSL. He agrees that there is there is no science behind this.


At least in the US the proposed Class 
2  allows multi engine ops, IFR, Night.


I know that many DAMEs also want change.

Regards

Michael



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quality soaring instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mark Newton 
I had a 1:1 meeting with Jonathan Aleck this morning, on the subject of their 
newly touted “Regulatory Philosophy.”

Aleck wrote the policy document, and says he’s quite proud of it:
https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/standard-page/our-regulatory-philosophy 


(the meeting arose because I challenged CASA’s stakeholder engagement people 
about how item 8, “Just culture,” applied to CASA’s actions in relation to 
Fadlalla and Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2015] AATA 331 (15 May 2015), in 
which a two judge Administrative Appeals Tribunal systematically eviscerated 
CASA for enforcement overreach, bad-faith heavy handedness, and outright 
fabricating allegations against a student pilot in an attempt to get his 
license cancelled after a mistake in his flight planning caused him to arrive 
at Jandakot 3 minutes after last light. If you have an hour to spare, have a 
read of the 107 paragraph decision, and marvel at how a judge can so 
comprehensively dismantle an out of control regulator: 
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2015/331.html 
 )

Aleck's intention is that for each action CASA takes, whether it’s enforcement, 
regulatory drafting, or policymaking, the person within CASA who is 
implementing the action should be able to explain how it is consistent with the 
ten points laid out in the statement on their website. His staff are running 
internal training across the country for CASA employees. 

His expectation is that where that can’t or doesn’t happen, people like us will 
— and should — demand better. 

I don’t think it’s possible to defend the AVMed status quo against those ten 
principles. Specifically, class 2 medicals for private pilots offend items 2, 
3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9; and since the UK and US liberalized their private 
medicals, there’s probably an argument to be had about item 4 too.

Have at it. Two days left.

  - mark

> On Mar 28, 2017, at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt  
> wrote:
> 
> Excellent. So send in your comments to CASA and also print out and send by 
> snail mail to the Minister.
> 
> Make a pile of paper on his mail room desk. More impressive than emails.
> 
> Here are his contact details: 
> http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/chester/contact.aspx 
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 11:02 AM 3/28/2017, you wrote:
>> I support the AOPA proposal and the US treatment of Class 2 medicals.
>> 
>> I too recently did my Class 2 medical.
>> 
>> I discussed with the DAME how the RAMPC requirements restrict to single 
>> engine ops, less than 1,500kg, only 1 pax, and ops below 10,000’ AMSL. He 
>> agrees that there is there is no science behind this.
>> 
>> At least in the US the proposed Class 2  allows multi engine ops, IFR, Night.
>> 
>> I know that many DAMEs also want change.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___ Aus-soaring mailing list 
>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au 
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring 
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>> design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>  tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: 
> int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mike Borgelt 
Excellent. So send in your comments to CASA and 
also print out and send by snail mail to the Minister.


Make a pile of paper on his mail room desk. More impressive than emails.

Here are his contact details: 
http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/chester/contact.aspx


Mike




At 11:02 AM 3/28/2017, you wrote:

I support the AOPA proposal and the US treatment of Class 2 medicals.

I too recently did my Class 2 medical.

I discussed with the DAME how the RAMPC 
requirements restrict to single engine ops, less 
than 1,500kg, only 1 pax, and ops below 
10,000’ AMSL. He agrees that there is there is no science behind this.


At least in the US the proposed Class 2  allows multi engine ops, IFR, Night.

I know that many DAMEs also want change.

Regards

Michael



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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Jo Pocklington 
Regarding the RAMPC restriction on carrying passengers, which states:  "An 
eligible person holding an RAMPC must not operate an aircraft with more than 1 
passenger on board, and that 1 passenger (if carried) must be a qualifying 
passenger. This is a defined term meaning a passenger who, before boarding an 
aircraft has been told by the eligible person that he or she holds a current 
(RAMPC) that is of a lower medical standard than a class 1 or class 2 medical 
certificate normally required which imposes conditions, all of which are and 
will be complied with for the flight."

 

This is nonsense.  RAMPC pilots are totally lacking known medical issues. The 
CASA assumption is that because a GP - and not a CASA appointed AvMed doctor 
sitting in Canberra, who has not examined the pilot - signs off the 
certificate, then it must be lacking in some sort of rigour, or medical 
authenticity.

 

Given the medical standard requested by CASA/AvMed, the RAMPC is not of a lower 
medical standard than a Class 2 and should have no additional operational 
restrictions over a CASA Class 2 Medical Certificate - regards Jo

 

-Original Message-
From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Texler, Michael
Sent: Tuesday, 28 March 2017 12:03 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

I support the AOPA proposal and the US treatment of Class 2 medicals.

I too recently did my Class 2 medical.

I discussed with the DAME how the RAMPC requirements restrict to single engine 
ops, less than 1,500kg, only 1 pax, and ops below 10,000’ AMSL. He agrees that 
there is there is no science behind this.

At least in the US the proposed Class 2  allows multi engine ops, IFR, Night.

I know that many DAMEs also want change.

Regards

Michael

 

 

 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Texler, Michael 
I support the AOPA proposal and the US treatment of Class 2 medicals.

I too recently did my Class 2 medical.

I discussed with the DAME how the RAMPC requirements restrict to single engine 
ops, less than 1,500kg, only 1 pax, and ops below 10,000’ AMSL. He agrees that 
there is there is no science behind this.

At least in the US the proposed Class 2  allows multi engine ops, IFR, Night.

I know that many DAMEs also want change.

Regards

Michael



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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Peter Champness 
ok

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com>
wrote:

> You could simply say something like "*the AOPA proposal dated 23 August
> 2016 regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me*" – regards Jo
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Champness
> *Sent:* Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Is there a generic reply which I could copy?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are
> not yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016
> (attached), which many are supporting.
>
> GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an
> RAMPC, RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence
> requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form +
> only being eligible in the absence of certain conditions - although these
> conditions do not preclude an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+
> disqualifying conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5
> years, angina, coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated
> diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than a Class
> 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot with a recent history of prostate
> cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot is unlikely to have
> difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical Certificate.
>
> Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject
> line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper
>
>
> OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current
> discussion paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).
>
> If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC
> to fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble
> that causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial
> reasons you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.
>
> If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA
> proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all
> bitching rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.
>
> Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.
>
> Mike
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978*
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mike Borgelt 


Just so everyone knows, RAMPC is NOT a private car licence medical 
standard. It is a HEAVY VEHICLE licence medical standard with 
additional CASA bastardisations.



Mike





Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring 
instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784:  int+61-42835 5784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mike Borgelt 
Thanks Jo, so you all have less time. Get busy. I suggest you send a 
copy direct to the Minister, Darren Chester also. If nothing else 
just say you strongly support the AOPA proposal for PRIVATE pilots.


It is worse than just tug pilots as one of the CASA options is to 
extend the RAMPC to ALL sport and recreational aviators which I'm 
sure will include glider pilots.


This CASA discussion paper is a calculated insult to AOPA and 
Australia's private pilot population. The ONLY reason it is happening 
is because AOPA stirred the Minister and the discussion paper 
deliberately leaves out the option: Align the private pilot aviation 
medical standard with that which now prevails in the UK or USA  which 
is what AOPA wants. CASA is just miffed that they have to do 
something they don't want to do because the Minster told them to get onto it.


Mike





At 04:56 PM 3/27/2017, you wrote:

Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions 
are not yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 
2016 (attached), which many are supporting.


GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on 
an RAMPC, RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver 
licence requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical 
history form + only being eligible in the absence of certain 
conditions - although these conditions do not preclude an 
unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying 
conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, 
angina, coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated 
diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than 
a Class 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot with a recent history 
of prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot 
is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical Certificate.


Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and 
should include in the subject line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo


From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper

OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current 
discussion paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).


If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a 
RAMPC to fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see 
the trouble that causes because if you can't get one for a number of 
relatively trivial reasons you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.


If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of 
the AOPA proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get 
to lose all bitching rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.


Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring 
instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia

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tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784:  int+61-42835 5784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Jo Pocklington 
You could simply say something like "the AOPA proposal dated 23 August 2016 
regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me" – regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Peter Champness
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

 

Thanks,

 

Is there a generic reply which I could copy? 

 

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington <jopockling...@bigpond.com> 
wrote:

Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are not yet 
available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 (attached), which 
many are supporting. 

GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an RAMPC, 
RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence requirements + a 
visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form + only being eligible in 
the absence of certain conditions - although these conditions do not preclude 
an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying conditions for 
an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, coronary bypass 
surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is 
therefore more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot 
with a recent history of prostate cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but 
that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical 
Certificate. 

Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject line:  
'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Mike Borgelt
Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper


OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current discussion 
paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).

If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC to 
fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble that 
causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial reasons 
you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.

If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA 
proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all bitching 
rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.

Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation 
since 1978
www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> 
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 
<tel:+61%207%204635%205784> 
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 


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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Peter Champness 
Thanks,

Is there a generic reply which I could copy?

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington 
wrote:

> Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are
> not yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016
> (attached), which many are supporting.
>
> GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an
> RAMPC, RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence
> requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form +
> only being eligible in the absence of certain conditions - although these
> conditions do not preclude an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+
> disqualifying conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5
> years, angina, coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated
> diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than a Class
> 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot with a recent history of prostate
> cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot is unlikely to have
> difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical Certificate.
>
> Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject
> line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper
>
>
> OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current
> discussion paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).
>
> If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC
> to fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble
> that causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial
> reasons you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.
>
> If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA
> proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all
> bitching rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.
>
> Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.
>
> Mike
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978*
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

2017-03-27 Thread Mark Newton 
I submitted mine last week. Spiced and seasoned by a Class 2 medical 
examination the week before, accompanied by a small collection of avmed 
screwups which they still, 2 weeks after the exam, don’t appear to have 
rectified.

  - mark


> On Mar 27, 2017, at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are not 
> yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016 (attached), 
> which many are supporting. 
> 
> GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an RAMPC, 
> RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence requirements + 
> a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form + only being eligible 
> in the absence of certain conditions - although these conditions do not 
> preclude an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+ disqualifying 
> conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5 years, angina, 
> coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated diabetes, sleep 
> apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than a Class 2 Medical, eg a 
> healthy private pilot with a recent history of prostate cancer is ineligible 
> to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot is unlikely to have difficulty obtaining a 
> Class 2 Medical Certificate. 
> 
> Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au  and should 
> include in the subject line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo
> 
>  <> 
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au 
> ] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt
> Sent: Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper
> 
> OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current discussion 
> paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).
> 
> If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC to 
> fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com 
>  to see the trouble that causes because if 
> you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial reasons you will be up 
> for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.
> 
> If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA 
> proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all 
> bitching rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.
> 
> Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.
> 
> Mike
> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation 
> since 1978
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>  tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: 
> int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
> 
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