[AZORES-Genealogy] Flanders filming/interviews

[Manita M]

Good morning from Munich :)

Tomorrow I will be heading to Flanders to do some interviews and get B roll
for my documentary on our Azorean ancestors.

I have landed some awesome interviews and wonderful locations, but I need
your help.

What QUESTIONS do you want me to ask?

This is your opportunity to get access to Flanders experts. No question is
silly. Ask it.

If you prefer to PM me, that's fine.

Thank you :)

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] BRAGA - Sta. Maria, Açores

[Manita M]

This is such a great find.

On Aug 22, 2016 12:40 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
wrote:

> May be it is needed to someone:
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-
> VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1795-1801/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1795-1801_item1/P15.html
>
>
>
> Found a BRAGA born at Sta. Maria Island and baptized in Matriz de Vila
> Franca do Campo, 1795…
>
>
>
> Muito Obrigado,
>
> *Eliseu Pacheco da Silva, “sharing is the best way of growth… so stay
> gold!”*
>
> *Azores (S. Miguel, Graciosa, Faial); Mainland (Alentejo)*
>
> (http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel?lang=en)
>
>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Rodrigo Rodrigues book

[Manita M]

Is there anyone on this list that is in touch with this Rodrigo Rodrigues
family?

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Maria S,
>
> The Rodrigo Rodrigues genealogies is a 6 volume set that is out of print.
> It was produced as a hard copy only. Since it's a recent work (maybe 10 or
> 15 years old), it's no where old enough to be out of copyright and
> digitally scanned.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente

[Manita M]

Dear direct paternal line descendant of Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas,

We need your Y DNA tested to confirm a mystery and be able to make a huge
breakthrough with one of the original settlers of the Azores.

Of course we would then need to find a direct paternal descendant of his
father, the Count of Benavente and do the exact same thing and determine if
there is a Y DNA match, but even if that is years away, it would still be
helpful.

A bunch of us, myself included descend from this man and I'm dying to know
if it's true that he is who we think he is, then we connect to Rainha Santa
Isabel and some other VERY interesting people in history.

http://www.vamosaic.com/2016/04/23/what-do-vietnam-coimbra-genealogy-dna-testing-azores-joao-afonso-das-grotas-fundas-rainha-santa-isabel-benavente-toledo-and-san-diego-have-in-common/

On Aug 3, 2016 7:45 AM, "Manita M"  wrote:

> This is exactly what we need in order to have scientific proof. Otherwise,
> we will never know for sure.  We NEED to figure this out.  It's an
> intriguing story that needs to be told and properly researched.
>
> Is there anyway that we could identify a direct male descendant of Joao
> Afonso das GF? Then get the Y DNA done on that person?
>
> Is there anyone in this group that is on the direct paternal line to Joao
> Afonso das GF? Please, please identify yourself and would you please do a Y
> DNA test? If too cost prohibitive, I am sure a bunch of us would sponsor
> that test for you, me included.
>
> On Jul 30, 2016 10:57 PM, "Cheri Mello"  wrote:
>
>> Yes, we would need a strict line male descendant of Joao Afonso das
>> Grotas Fundas (the male test taker must have the genealogy of his father's
>> father's father's father back to Joao Afonso) AND we would need a man who
>> was the son of the son of the son of the son of the Count of Benavente to
>> compare to. They would both need a YDNA test.
>>
>> There could be people on this list that could be it, but their records
>> don't go back far enough in their freguesia or they aren't back that far
>> yet in time.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> --
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>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente

[Manita M]

This is exactly what we need in order to have scientific proof. Otherwise,
we will never know for sure.  We NEED to figure this out.  It's an
intriguing story that needs to be told and properly researched.

Is there anyway that we could identify a direct male descendant of Joao
Afonso das GF? Then get the Y DNA done on that person?

Is there anyone in this group that is on the direct paternal line to Joao
Afonso das GF? Please, please identify yourself and would you please do a Y
DNA test? If too cost prohibitive, I am sure a bunch of us would sponsor
that test for you, me included.

On Jul 30, 2016 10:57 PM, "Cheri Mello"  wrote:

> Yes, we would need a strict line male descendant of Joao Afonso das Grotas
> Fundas (the male test taker must have the genealogy of his father's
> father's father's father back to Joao Afonso) AND we would need a man who
> was the son of the son of the son of the son of the Count of Benavente to
> compare to. They would both need a YDNA test.
>
> There could be people on this list that could be it, but their records
> don't go back far enough in their freguesia or they aren't back that far
> yet in time.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Translation help with marriage record

[Manita M]

Can anyone make out the names of the couple and their parents? I'm at a
complete loss.

3rd record on the left:
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1599-1662/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1599-1662_item1/P42.html

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating she is a widow

[Manita M]

this is great!

hm, why do we have Simao Goncalves married to two different women?  is
it the same man? or just happens to be a different man with the same name?

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Joe Matias  wrote:

> might be of help.
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Sorry, not JR, I meant to say Manoel (César Furtado). Manoel has
>> Kryptonite eyes.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> JR, Wow, do you have Kryptonite in your eyes? LOL I thought we ran out
>>> of records.
>>>
>>> So now these people you list are the End of the Line ancestors, correct?
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>
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>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating she is a widow

[Manita M]

Thank you for this ... this is amazing ... just went back a generation ...
wot!

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:30 PM, mances  wrote:

> Here's the marriage of João Roiz [Noia] and Isabel de Oliveira on 17 nov
> 1649  in Matriz de Vila Franca do Campo.
> Bottom:
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1599-1662/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1599-1662_item1/P186.html
>
> - João Roiz is the son of Miguel de Noia and Úrsula Roiz
> - Isabel de Oliveira is the daughter of Sebastião de Oliveira and Clara
> Gonçalves (d.)
>
> João was baptised in Matriz de Vila Franca do Campo on 16.6.1624 - CCA #57
>
> Miguel de Noia and Úrsula Roiz are my ancestors too. They married on 5 sep
> 1615 in Rosário, Lagoa. The record doesn't list their parents.
>
>
> Manoel César Furtado
>
>
>
> Em sexta-feira, 24 de junho de 2016 16:00:43 UTC-3, Cheri Mello escreveu:
>>
>> Marriage of Manuel da Souza and Bernarda d'Oliveira, right center:
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1670-1705/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1670-1705_item1/P19.html
>>
>> So now you have Bernarda's parents, but that's as far back as you'll get.
>> You're out of records.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> Her death, top left
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1728-1749/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1728-1749_item1/P40.html
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Manita M  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Speaking of mtdna...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/science/mitochondrial-dna-mothers.html?smid=fb-nytscience&smtyp=cur&_r=1&referer=http://m.facebook.com/
>>>> On Jun 24, 2016 1:51 PM, "Cheri Mello"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not have Bernarda de Oliveira's baptism. I only have her father
>>>>> as Manuel da Sousa and mother as Maria de Oliveira who died before 5 Jun
>>>>> 1710. No source on that. Ugh!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have Bernanda's marriage and death. That's it.
>>>>> Cheri
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating she is a widow

[Manita M]

Speaking of mtdna...

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/science/mitochondrial-dna-mothers.html?smid=fb-nytscience&smtyp=cur&_r=1&referer=http://m.facebook.com/
On Jun 24, 2016 1:51 PM, "Cheri Mello"  wrote:

> I have them.
>
> I do not have Bernarda de Oliveira's baptism. I only have her father as
> Manuel da Sousa and mother as Maria de Oliveira who died before 5 Jun 1710.
> No source on that. Ugh!!
>
> I have Bernanda's marriage and death. That's it.
> Cheri
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating she is a widow

[Manita M]

Thank you again.

Does anyone else have my 6x great grandparents in their family tree?  Bernarda
de Oliveira AND Francisco Barbosa?

I am trying to go back on Bernarda de Oliveira direct maternal line, which
is also my direct maternal line and I am stuck, stuck, stuck.  I would love
to go back as far as possible on my direct maternal line (H6a1b2), ideally
to the original Azorean settler and of course where that original direct
Azorean maternal ancestor came from ... I can dream.  So far my mtDNA
matches are not close enough to figure that out ... YET.


On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Shirley Allegre 
wrote:

> Manita:Re my 863 Bernarda de Oliveira:
> Her 1st spouse was Domingos FERNANDES
> I descend from her #2 sp  My 862. Francisco Barbosa.
> They married 17 August 1721. SM-VFDC
> Francisco Barbosa, stonemason, widower of Maria (Fereira) Lima
> SPOUSE
> Bernarda de Oliveira, widow of Domingos Fernandes
>
> Shirley in CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -
> *From:* Manita M 
> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:39 PM
> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name
> indicating she is a widow
>
> Help with translation please!
>
> Below is a link to a marriage record that I need help with translating
> after the brides name.  Please refer to the top right, which is a
> continuation of the marriage record for Bernarda Oliveira and Francisco
>
> After the brides name, it says veuva (widow) de Domingos xx
>
> What is the ?
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1705-1743/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1705-1743_item1/P112.html
>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating she is a widow

[Manita M]

Thank you.

I descend from Bernarda on my direct maternal line :)
On Jun 23, 2016 3:17 PM, "Shirley Allegre"  wrote:

Manita:Re my 863 Bernarda de Oliveira:
Her 1st spouse was Domingos FERNANDES
I descend from her #2 sp  My 862. Francisco Barbosa.
They married 17 August 1721. SM-VFDC
Francisco Barbosa, stonemason, widower of Maria (Fereira) Lima
SPOUSE
Bernarda de Oliveira, widow of Domingos Fernandes

Shirley in CA


- Original Message -
*From:* Manita M 
*To:* azores@googlegroups.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2016 9:39 PM
*Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating
she is a widow

Help with translation please!

Below is a link to a marriage record that I need help with translating
after the brides name.  Please refer to the top right, which is a
continuation of the marriage record for Bernarda Oliveira and Francisco

After the brides name, it says veuva (widow) de Domingos xx

What is the ?


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1705-1743/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1705-1743_item1/P112.html


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio de Arruda married in Ponta Garca-VF-Sao Miguel, Azores on 1817-Jan-30 to Maria Jacinta

[Manita M]

No, Plzzz send :)

manita.morg...@gmail.com
On Jun 23, 2016 3:17 PM, "Shirley Allegre"  wrote:

> Manita did I send you my GEDCOM?  Look for these people in there.
> Shirley in CA
>
> - Original Message -----
> *From:* Manita M 
> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:43 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio de Arruda married in Ponta
> Garca-VF-Sao Miguel, Azores on 1817-Jan-30 to Maria Jacinta
>
> Do you have their baptism records?
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:41 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the clarification. I have them.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Manita M 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> PONTA GARCA, Sao Miguel researchers, please check your tree for this
>>> couple and if you have any information on them or their ancestors, kindly
>>> share:
>>>
>>> Below you will find the marriage record CCA link for:
>>>
>>> Antonio de Arruda (parents were Jose de Arruda and Maria da Costa)
>>> who married in PG on 1817-Jan-30
>>> to Maria Jacintha de Jesus (parents were Joam de Mello and Joana de
>>> Jesus)
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-
>>> PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849_item1/P
>>> 48.html
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Cheri Mello 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It got cut off on my end. Best not to put all your information in the
>>>> subject line. I have Antonio de Arrudas, but I don't know what wife you
>>>> want. You want to copy and paste your subject into the body of the email so
>>>> all can see what couple you are working on?
>>>> Cheri Mello
>>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating she is a widow

[Manita M]

Thank you kindly.  Very helpful as usual :)

It always breaks my heart when I see widows.  Back then the idea of being
unmarried would have been unimaginable.   And if you think about it, that
kind of thinking or let's call it survival wasn't so long ago.

My ancestors must be looking at me right now and thinking look it's 2016
she's unmarried with no children and thriving.  It's an actual option.  The
world has changed but only a few generations ago, my life would have been
completely different.
On Jun 22, 2016 9:50 PM, "JR"  wrote:

VFSM, Aug 17- 1721, Francisco Barboza pedreiro viuvo de Maria de Lima que
Deus haja com Bernarda de Oliveira viuva de Domingos Fernandes Valadeiro
que Deus haja, todos freguezes desta igreja. The expression, que Deus haja
means they are with God (defunto) similar to que Deus tem.

Take note of the certification; Looks like April 27, or 21, 1804

JR


On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 11:45:29 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Domingos Fernandes. Not sure if there's a 2nd surname or not.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio de Arruda married in Ponta Garca-VF-Sao Miguel, Azores on 1817-Jan-30 to Maria Jacinta

[Manita M]

Thank you for this!

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Shirley Allegre and I did this work. We can't be certain, but we believe
> this is Maria's baptism. (Top right);
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-RIBEIRAQUENTE-B-1792-1821/SMG-PV-RIBEIRAQUENTE-B-1792-1821_item1/P7.html
>
> Just a few pages before is Antonio's (bottom left).
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-RIBEIRAQUENTE-B-1792-1821/SMG-PV-RIBEIRAQUENTE-B-1792-1821_item1/P6.html
>
> His parents are not yet married. Not sure what the word is after dad's
> name.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 5:43 AM, Manita M 
> wrote:
>
>> Do you have their baptism records?
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:41 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the clarification. I have them.
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Manita M 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> PONTA GARCA, Sao Miguel researchers, please check your tree for this
>>>> couple and if you have any information on them or their ancestors, kindly
>>>> share:
>>>>
>>>> Below you will find the marriage record CCA link for:
>>>>
>>>> Antonio de Arruda (parents were Jose de Arruda and Maria da Costa)
>>>> who married in PG on 1817-Jan-30
>>>> to Maria Jacintha de Jesus (parents were Joam de Mello and Joana de
>>>> Jesus)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-
>>>> PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849_item1/P
>>>> 48.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Cheri Mello 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It got cut off on my end. Best not to put all your information in the
>>>>> subject line. I have Antonio de Arrudas, but I don't know what wife you
>>>>> want. You want to copy and paste your subject into the body of the email 
>>>>> so
>>>>> all can see what couple you are working on?
>>>>> Cheri Mello
>>>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>>>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio de Arruda married in Ponta Garca-VF-Sao Miguel, Azores on 1817-Jan-30 to Maria Jacinta

[Manita M]

Do you have their baptism records?

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:41 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification. I have them.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Manita M 
> wrote:
>
>> PONTA GARCA, Sao Miguel researchers, please check your tree for this
>> couple and if you have any information on them or their ancestors, kindly
>> share:
>>
>> Below you will find the marriage record CCA link for:
>>
>> Antonio de Arruda (parents were Jose de Arruda and Maria da Costa)
>> who married in PG on 1817-Jan-30
>> to Maria Jacintha de Jesus (parents were Joam de Mello and Joana de Jesus)
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-
>> PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849_item1/P
>> 48.html
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> It got cut off on my end. Best not to put all your information in the
>>> subject line. I have Antonio de Arrudas, but I don't know what wife you
>>> want. You want to copy and paste your subject into the body of the email so
>>> all can see what couple you are working on?
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>> --
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>>> membership."
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>>
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>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] translation help after brides name indicating she is a widow

[Manita M]

Help with translation please!

Below is a link to a marriage record that I need help with translating
after the brides name.  Please refer to the top right, which is a
continuation of the marriage record for Bernarda Oliveira and Francisco

After the brides name, it says veuva (widow) de Domingos xx

What is the ?


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1705-1743/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1705-1743_item1/P112.html

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio de Arruda married in Ponta Garca-VF-Sao Miguel, Azores on 1817-Jan-30 to Maria Jacinta

[Manita M]

PONTA GARCA, Sao Miguel researchers, please check your tree for this couple
and if you have any information on them or their ancestors, kindly share:

Below you will find the marriage record CCA link for:

Antonio de Arruda (parents were Jose de Arruda and Maria da Costa)
who married in PG on 1817-Jan-30
to Maria Jacintha de Jesus (parents were Joam de Mello and Joana de Jesus)


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-
PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1810-1849_item1/P
48.html


On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> It got cut off on my end. Best not to put all your information in the
> subject line. I have Antonio de Arrudas, but I don't know what wife you
> want. You want to copy and paste your subject into the body of the email so
> all can see what couple you are working on?
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> --
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> membership."
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio de Arruda married in Ponta Garca-VF-Sao Miguel, Azores on 1817-Jan-30 to Maria Jacinta

[Manita M]

Hi,

To all Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel researchers, Do you have this couple in your
tree

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Rainha Santa Isabel connection to Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

you have me sobbing ... you have no idea how much this means to me ...this
is the REASON why I do this ...to help create greater connection and
meaning ... I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE being AZOREAN ... definitely reach out to me
off list and let's continue this conversation ... unfortunately, I am
rushing, I am packing and getting ready to go to Portugal and haven't had
coffee yet ...ah

manita.morg...@gmail.com --> my personal e-mail

and like my Facebook page -->
*https://www.facebook.com/vamosaicdotcom
*

as this is where I will be putting updates on my trip ... it is NOT a DNA
or find my ancestors trip this time, except for visiting my 20x GGM in
Coimbra of course, but it is a spiritual one ... but, you know me ... I'll
probably find someone, talk to them and learn something new anyhow! ;)


On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Maria Lima  wrote:

> What a coincidence to receive and read your blog today!  Just this morning
> my husband and I attended a military function and I met a senior Army
> officer whose last name was Morgado.  That name sounded familiar to me and
> I then remembered the discussions on this list about that name some time
> ago.
>
> As he and my husband were chit chatting  I stared at his name tag and then
> it came to me why I thought the name sounded familiar especially when I saw
> it in writing (duh)!  I couldn't keep  myself from asking, "what is your
> ancestry?"  He responded,  Portuguese!  His ancestors come from a town
> north of COIMBRA.
> His  grandparents went to Fall River area and so did my husband's.  There
> were similar patterns in our ancestors' lives.
>
> What was amazing was to find another high ranking officer of Portuguese
> origin in the Army.  We certainly bonded and I encouraged him to get DNA
> and information from his father while his father is still "with us".
>
> I am going to send him your blog.  I hope he will try to get some of his
> family history while his parents are alive.
>
> You are vey talented and using your talent in helping others in finding
> their ancestors.  sometimes coincidences happen which help us find our
> ancestors. There just might be a connection with you and this gentlemen
> whose last name is Morgado.  I don't think it's a coincidence that I read
> your blog today and met another person with that name from northern
> Portugal and that I brought up his ancestors.  (Whew!).   Maybe we could
> correspond privately.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Maria Elena
>
> > On May 6, 2016, at 5:28 PM, manita.morgado 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello my fellow Azorean genealogy researchers!
> >
> > This is my story of how I discovered my connection to Rainha Santa
> Isabel. Perhaps you're connected to her too?
> >
> > The perfect audience for this blog post is newbies to Azorean genealogy
> research.  It's also a beautiful story of how interconnected we all are.
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.vamosaic.com/2016/04/23/what-do-vietnam-coimbra-genealogy-dna-testing-azores-joao-afonso-das-grotas-fundas-rainha-santa-isabel-benavente-toledo-and-san-diego-have-in-common/
> >
> > --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Paying for a document

[Manita M]

I would use João Ventura, professional genealogist in Terceira

Or

Go through your consulate

The former is easier, based on my personal experience
On Apr 26, 2016 11:37 AM, "we...@stargazerlabradors.com" <
we...@stargazerlabradors.com> wrote:

> My bank charges $40 dollars for a international bank to bank transfer. (US
> to Mainland Portugal) The document I would like to have emailed to me costs
> .34 cents. Is there another way to pay for the document like money order,
> pay pal, credit card? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank
> you in advance.
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joao's class

[Manita M]

I believe it got cancelled, as not enough interest.

Speaking of interest... Anyone on this list from or near Toronto that would
be interested in attending such a workshop? If so, I'd be happy to
co-ordinate and work with João.

I would imagine a minimum amount of attendees at X rate for it to be
worthwhile for João.

PM (private message) me directly and I'll take a poll of the interest
level.
On Mar 16, 2016 1:39 PM, "Carlota Torres"  wrote:

> and how about the East coast?
> Carlota Torres
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Liz Migliori  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> Not this year.  Joao com s once a year.   There will be a big week long
>> Portuguese conference in Salt Lake at the beginning of September
>>
>> Where do you live
>>
>> Liz
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2016, at 2:19 AM, Aaron Pereira  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Liz,
>>
>> I missed the announcement for the class; it would've been nice to go.  My
>> great grandpa lived and farmed in Turlock...
>> Was there a mention of another class?  Thanks.
>>
>> On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 10:46:18 PM UTC-7, Lizmig wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I just wanted to give a shout to to Joao Ventura for again delivering a
>>> great class to many newcomers this past Sunday in Turlock. CA.
>>>
>>> There were about 20 attendees in the pouring rain but we couldn't kick
>>> them out.  They wanted more.   So I guess it'll have to be longer next year.
>>>
>>> Thank you Joao
>>>
>>> Liz
>>>
>> --
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>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Translation help

[Manita M]

True.  I have twins in my family and they were listed together.
On Jan 31, 2016 9:57 PM, "Barb Davis"  wrote:

> In my experience twins are listed together rather than as two seperate
> baptisms.
>
> B
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 5:21:55 PM UTC-7, Eddie Machado wrote:
>>
>> Ok on this page it looks like it has possible twins. I am having a
>> difficult time reading it. Left side Manuel and Antonio the first two on
>> the page.
>>
>>
>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1835-1845/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1835-1845_item1/P197.html
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> Eddie
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam (Joao) GONCALVES of Ribeira Grande, Nossa Senhora da Conceicao - circa early 1700's birth

[Manita M]

Thank you kindly JR!  If you are ever in Toronto, I'm buying you a nice
dinner :)

Because of that information regarding his first marriage, I was able to
find his father's baptism record!

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-B-1720-1729/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-B-1720-1729_item1/P135.html
On Dec 14, 2015 6:12 PM, "JR"  wrote:

> They Joao Gonsalves married first in VF Matriz to Maria de Matos 03 May
> 1753. Have to go out will send what i have later
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1743-1763/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1743-1763_item1/P90.html
>
> JR
>
> On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 5:22:37 PM UTC-5, JR wrote:
>>
>> I don't have anything more on him, but since it says his first wife died
>> in Ponta Garca, he may have married in Vila Franca, where there are a lot
>> of Matos.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 1:09:27 PM UTC-5, manita.morgado wrote:
>>>
>>> *Background*
>>>
>>> The left bottom record of this CCA link is the baptism record for
>>> Francisco Goncalves of Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel born in 1770:
>>>
>>> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1767-1799/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1767-1799_item1/P39.html
>>> *
>>> He married in 1799.  Left page of CCA link:
>>>
>>> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1779-1810/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1779-1810_item1/P122.html
>>> )*
>>>
>>> *Help*
>>>
>>> *I have not been able to find information on his father, Joam (Joao)
>>> Goncalves who is a native of Ribeira Grande - Nossa Senhora da Conceicao.  *
>>>
>>> Does anyone have this person in their family tree?
>>>
>>> --
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Joam (Joao) GONCALVES of Ribeira Grande, Nossa Senhora da Conceicao - circa early 1700's birth

[Manita M]

*Background*

The left bottom record of this CCA link is the baptism record for Francisco
Goncalves of Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel born in 1770:

*http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1767-1799/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1767-1799_item1/P39.html
*
He married in 1799.  Left page of CCA link:

*http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1779-1810/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1779-1810_item1/P122.html
)*

*Help*

*I have not been able to find information on his father, Joam (Joao)
Goncalves who is a native of Ribeira Grande - Nossa Senhora da Conceicao.  *

Does anyone have this person in their family tree?

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[AZORES-Genealogy] CHILDREN of João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

Good morning from Toronto,

Does anyone in this group have the actual CCA links for the baptisms of the
children of João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?

I realize their names and their descendant names are in RR's book but I
have yet to see the actual baptism records.

Thanks.

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

I'm not sure if it's the correct Lopo Días, but I saw a reference in RR's
capitulo 162 to a Lopo Dias.  If this is indeed the person that the
testament refers to, I'm still not sure how Lopo Días and João Afonso are
related.
On Dec 8, 2015 5:12 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
wrote:

> I will try to establish if I am related to Lopo Dias… then I will let you
> know…
>
>
>
> *De:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *Em nome
> de *Manita M
> *Enviada:* 8 de dezembro de 2015 18:26
> *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* Shirley Allegre 
> *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>
>
>
> On the bottom half of page 102, as pointed out by Julio, there is a
> reference to:
>
> "LOPO DÍAS, DA MAIA, MEU PARENTE"
>
> Since this document was written in November 1511, can you please check
> your family trees for this man being alive at this time.  Who is? How is he
> "related" to Joao Afonso exactly.
>
> On Dec 8, 2015 12:35 AM, "Júlio"  wrote:
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
>
> terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre
> escreveu:
>
> See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I
> got some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco,
> plus other people.
>
> Shirley in CA
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Ângela Loura
>
> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>
>
>
> Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at
> the info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/>
>
>
>
> 2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
> It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.
>
> Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:
>
> I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.
>
> my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in
> ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are 
> Alfonso
> de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461
> Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died
> 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the
> child of this couple as there is mystery around him.
>
> DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd Count
> of Benavente.
>
> http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
>
> On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:
>
> Olá Manita,
>
>
>
> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>
>
>
> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
> Hola!
>
> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?
>
> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour
> to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information.
>
> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying
> on RR's information?
>
> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>
> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>
> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history
> and story.
>
>
>
&g

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

On the bottom half of page 102, as pointed out by Julio, there is a
reference to:

"LOPO DÍAS, DA MAIA, MEU PARENTE"

Since this document was written in November 1511, can you please check your
family trees for this man being alive at this time.  Who is? How is he
"related" to Joao Afonso exactly.
On Dec 8, 2015 12:35 AM, "Júlio"  wrote:

>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
> terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre
> escreveu:
>>
>> See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I
>> got some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco,
>> plus other people.
>> Shirley in CA
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ângela Loura
>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>>
>> Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at
>> the info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/>
>>
>> 2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>>
>>> It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.
>>>
>>> Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:
>>>
>>> I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.
>>>
>>> my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's
>>> in ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are 
>>> Alfonso
>>> de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461
>>> Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died
>>> 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the
>>> child of this couple as there is mystery around him.
>>>
>>> DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd
>>> Count of Benavente.
>>>
>>> http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
>>> On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Olá Manita,
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>>>>
>>>> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>>>>
>>>>> Hola!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
>>>>> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas 
>>>>> Fundas?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a
>>>>> detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more
>>>>> information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you
>>>>> relying on RR's information?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>>>>> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
>>>>>> history and story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even
>>>>>> today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of 
>>>>>> the
>

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

It's in Spain.

Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:

my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in
? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are
Alfonso de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died
1461 Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died
12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the
child of this couple as there is mystery around him.

http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:

> Olá Manita,
>
> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>
> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
>> Hola!
>>
>> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
>> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?
>>
>> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a
>> detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more
>> information.
>>
>> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you
>> relying on RR's information?
>>
>> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>>
>>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
>>> history and story.
>>>
>>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even
>>> today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the
>>> hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
>>> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
>>> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
>>> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
>>> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
>>> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
>>> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
>>> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
>>> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
>>> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
>>> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
>>> outstanding view.
>>>
>>> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards
>>> in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our
>>> ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned
>>> land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in
>>> the past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
>>> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
>>> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
>>> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
>>> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
>>> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
>>> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
>>> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
>>> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
>>> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
>>> Franca. Take your camera!
>>>
>>> JR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would like the answer to that question too!
>>>>
>>>> I have a few questions:
>>>>
>>>> 1.  What is the story?
>>>>
>>>> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but
>>>> my Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about
>>>> torture, abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to
>>>> Santiago de Compostela and building a hospital.
>>>>
>>>> 2.  What is the controversy?
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source
>>>> records exist on him?
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he
>>>> was?
>>>&g

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

Hola!

Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the history
and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?

I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour
to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information.

Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying
on RR's information?

Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:

> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history
> and story.
>
> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today,
> on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills
> and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
> outstanding view.
>
> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in
> times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors.
> Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land
> there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the
> past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
> Franca. Take your camera!
>
> JR
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>>
>> I would like the answer to that question too!
>>
>> I have a few questions:
>>
>> 1.  What is the story?
>>
>> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my
>> Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about torture,
>> abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago
>> de Compostela and building a hospital.
>>
>> 2.  What is the controversy?
>>
>> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source records
>> exist on him?
>>
>> 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he
>> was?
>>
>> I'm completely fascinated.
>>
>> 5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this
>> place when I go to Sao Miguel next week.
>>
>> Looking foward to any information you have on him.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao, São Miguel

[Manita M]

Check this out.

The father died in 1904 according to this link.

http://olharpovoacense.blogspot.ca/2013/11/tracos-da-nossa-historia-jacinto-manuel.html?m=1
On Oct 12, 2015 2:03 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
wrote:

> Just foud out that he went also by the name Alberto Porfírio de Araújo.
> His parents were Jacinto Manuel de Arruda (Presidente da Câmara of
> Povoação) Povoação Mayor, married to Ana Ermelinda Botelho.
>
> You have it all in my tree J.
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *Em nome
> de *Manita M
> *Enviada:* 12 de outubro de 2015 17:51
> *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Assunto:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda -
> Povoacao, São Miguel
>
>
>
> Thank you primo :)
>
> Do you have the names of his parents,  wife and children by chance?
>
> Once I'm able to access CCA,  I will look for the source documents.
>
> No marriage information?  Private chapel?  I've never heard of that.
> Hm.  I wonder why Lagoa?  Maybe his wife was from there?
>
> I'd be interested to know if anyone in this group is a descendant of this
> man.
>
> Thank you!
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 1:43 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Alberto was:
>
> - born in 21.11.1852, Matriz, Povoação, S. Miguel, Açores
>
> - died in 1.6.1905, Matriz, Povoação, S. Miguel, Açores
>
>
>
> I think they have married in a private chapel in the House of Nossa
> Senhora do Cabo… suspect the marriage is in Lagoa, Sta. Cruz… but never
> checked!
>
>
>
> eliseu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *Em nome
> de *Manita M
> *Enviada:* 12 de outubro de 2015 17:07
> *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Assunto:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda -
> Povoacao, São Miguel
>
>
>
> I'll take any information on him.
>
> Ideally, his birth, marriage and death records.
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 12:34 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" <
> eliseuman...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Manita!
> What would you need on Alberto Porfírio Botelho Arruda?
> May be I can help
> eliseu
>
> -Mensagem original-
> De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de
> manita.morgado
> Enviada: 12 de outubro de 2015 15:27
> Para: Azores Genealogy 
> Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao,
> São Miguel
>
> Attention to anyone that has ancestors from:
>
> Povoacao, São Miguel born in the early 1800s. I suspect the Vila of
> Povoacao and so Matriz Mãe de Deus church records but not necessarily.
>
> Could you please look in your trees for:
>
> *** Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda ***
>
> He was most likely born around 1810 to 1830 in Povoacao, São Miguel. He
> was definitely buried in the Povoacao cemetery, Santa Barbara.  I know as I
> saw his tombstone a few weeks ago when I was there.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
> --
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> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
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> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
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> --
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao, São Miguel

[Manita M]

Excellent.

Thank you!
On Oct 12, 2015 2:03 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
wrote:

> Just foud out that he went also by the name Alberto Porfírio de Araújo.
> His parents were Jacinto Manuel de Arruda (Presidente da Câmara of
> Povoação) Povoação Mayor, married to Ana Ermelinda Botelho.
>
> You have it all in my tree J.
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *Em nome
> de *Manita M
> *Enviada:* 12 de outubro de 2015 17:51
> *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Assunto:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda -
> Povoacao, São Miguel
>
>
>
> Thank you primo :)
>
> Do you have the names of his parents,  wife and children by chance?
>
> Once I'm able to access CCA,  I will look for the source documents.
>
> No marriage information?  Private chapel?  I've never heard of that.
> Hm.  I wonder why Lagoa?  Maybe his wife was from there?
>
> I'd be interested to know if anyone in this group is a descendant of this
> man.
>
> Thank you!
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 1:43 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Alberto was:
>
> - born in 21.11.1852, Matriz, Povoação, S. Miguel, Açores
>
> - died in 1.6.1905, Matriz, Povoação, S. Miguel, Açores
>
>
>
> I think they have married in a private chapel in the House of Nossa
> Senhora do Cabo… suspect the marriage is in Lagoa, Sta. Cruz… but never
> checked!
>
>
>
> eliseu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *Em nome
> de *Manita M
> *Enviada:* 12 de outubro de 2015 17:07
> *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Assunto:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda -
> Povoacao, São Miguel
>
>
>
> I'll take any information on him.
>
> Ideally, his birth, marriage and death records.
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 12:34 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" <
> eliseuman...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Manita!
> What would you need on Alberto Porfírio Botelho Arruda?
> May be I can help
> eliseu
>
> -Mensagem original-
> De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de
> manita.morgado
> Enviada: 12 de outubro de 2015 15:27
> Para: Azores Genealogy 
> Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao,
> São Miguel
>
> Attention to anyone that has ancestors from:
>
> Povoacao, São Miguel born in the early 1800s. I suspect the Vila of
> Povoacao and so Matriz Mãe de Deus church records but not necessarily.
>
> Could you please look in your trees for:
>
> *** Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda ***
>
> He was most likely born around 1810 to 1830 in Povoacao, São Miguel. He
> was definitely buried in the Povoacao cemetery, Santa Barbara.  I know as I
> saw his tombstone a few weeks ago when I was there.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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> --
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> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao, São Miguel

[Manita M]

Thank you primo :)

Do you have the names of his parents,  wife and children by chance?

Once I'm able to access CCA,  I will look for the source documents.

No marriage information?  Private chapel?  I've never heard of that.
Hm.  I wonder why Lagoa?  Maybe his wife was from there?

I'd be interested to know if anyone in this group is a descendant of this
man.

Thank you!
On Oct 12, 2015 1:43 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Alberto was:
>
> - born in 21.11.1852, Matriz, Povoação, S. Miguel, Açores
>
> - died in 1.6.1905, Matriz, Povoação, S. Miguel, Açores
>
>
>
> I think they have married in a private chapel in the House of Nossa
> Senhora do Cabo… suspect the marriage is in Lagoa, Sta. Cruz… but never
> checked!
>
>
>
> eliseu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *Em nome
> de *Manita M
> *Enviada:* 12 de outubro de 2015 17:07
> *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Assunto:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda -
> Povoacao, São Miguel
>
>
>
> I'll take any information on him.
>
> Ideally, his birth, marriage and death records.
>
> On Oct 12, 2015 12:34 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" <
> eliseuman...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Manita!
> What would you need on Alberto Porfírio Botelho Arruda?
> May be I can help
> eliseu
>
> -Mensagem original-
> De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de
> manita.morgado
> Enviada: 12 de outubro de 2015 15:27
> Para: Azores Genealogy 
> Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao,
> São Miguel
>
> Attention to anyone that has ancestors from:
>
> Povoacao, São Miguel born in the early 1800s. I suspect the Vila of
> Povoacao and so Matriz Mãe de Deus church records but not necessarily.
>
> Could you please look in your trees for:
>
> *** Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda ***
>
> He was most likely born around 1810 to 1830 in Povoacao, São Miguel. He
> was definitely buried in the Povoacao cemetery, Santa Barbara.  I know as I
> saw his tombstone a few weeks ago when I was there.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
> --
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> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao, São Miguel

[Manita M]

I'll take any information on him.

Ideally, his birth, marriage and death records.
On Oct 12, 2015 12:34 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
wrote:

> Hi Manita!
> What would you need on Alberto Porfírio Botelho Arruda?
> May be I can help
> eliseu
>
> -Mensagem original-
> De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de
> manita.morgado
> Enviada: 12 de outubro de 2015 15:27
> Para: Azores Genealogy 
> Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda - Povoacao,
> São Miguel
>
> Attention to anyone that has ancestors from:
>
> Povoacao, São Miguel born in the early 1800s. I suspect the Vila of
> Povoacao and so Matriz Mãe de Deus church records but not necessarily.
>
> Could you please look in your trees for:
>
> *** Alberto Profirio Botelho Arruda ***
>
> He was most likely born around 1810 to 1830 in Povoacao, São Miguel. He
> was definitely buried in the Povoacao cemetery, Santa Barbara.  I know as I
> saw his tombstone a few weeks ago when I was there.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Why migrate to the Azores?

[Manita M]

I'm definitely curious and I think you've made an excellent observation.

Love to the thoughts on this.
On Sep 22, 2015 2:45 PM, "Maria Lima"  wrote:

> (Cheri:  I don't know if this should b a new thread on literacy of the
> early inhabitants on Santa Maria island. ).
>
> Last night I was going through the baptism records of Santo Espirito (NS
> de Purificacao) on Santa Maria in early 1700 ( the first island settled ?)
>  and I noticed something that amazed me.  Almost *without exception*  the
> people who signed at the bottom of the records,  had BEAUTIFUL penmanship.
>  - not just the priest and witness but especially the Padrinho!!   This
> really got me to wonder about the topic being discussed here.  Where did
> they come from? We're they educated in Portugal and were they literate(?).
>At first I thought it was just one record or two records, but after
> noticing this and  then going through maybe twenty or so records,  I
> started to look to see the signatures and I just marveled at the ability to
> sign their name with clarity and fancy flourishes in the letters.  If they
> could sign their names so proficiently, do you think they were literate?
>
> Their ability to sign their name in 1702 made me wonder if MOST of those
> who settled on Santa Maria during the late 1600's came from wealthy
> families in Portugal.  It got me curious.
>
> I wanted to give out a yell to some of you who know so much about the
> early inhabitants of Santa Maria island.  Is there a book that gives
> information about the early inhabitants of the island. (?)
>
> Here's just one example with Joseph de Resendes being a godfather:
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1700-1710/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1700-1710_item1/P8.html
>
> Thanks for reading my email.
>
> Maria Elena
>
> On Sep 21, 2015, at 8:20 PM, A Faria  wrote:
>
> I have a Portuguese link regarding the demographics in the city of Porto
> at the time the Azores were discovered the Population was being heavily
> taxed to widen a street(Rua Nova known today as Rua do Infante D. Henrique)
> , there was a grain shortage, and grain was very expensive, this I suspect
> is representative of what was occurring nationally. On Pico island land was
> being given to those willing to clear the rocky soil and turn it into
> productive farm land.
>
> http://www.portopatrimoniomundial.com/rua-do-infante-d-henrique.html
>
> http://www.iseg.ulisboa.pt/aphes30/docs/progdocs/FABIANO%20FERRAMOSCA.pdf
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 10:00:55 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> Repost for Miguel Deavery, migueldeavery at gmail.com
>>
>> I often wonder why some of our ancestors went to the Azores ?Did they go
>> freely or were they forced ? Beautiful Islands in the middle of nowhere.I
>> think our ancestors were courageous to leave Portugal than go to  the
>> Azores and than leave again  to go throughout the world to give us
>> opportunities they never had in their own lives.I know the Azores Islands
>> are beautiful but it must of been isolating for those living there not to
>> long ago. I once heard a saying but where I don't recall. The saying was
>> ...There is Lisbon and everything else is scenery.
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Jose da Silva, b. about 1833, city?, Faial, Azores - shanghaied age 14 and brough aboad a cargo bark to Long Island, NY - Looking for any information.

[Manita M]

That is a spectacular story.  I LOVE this group.  Please keep sharing I
love learning about our ancestors.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 3:40 PM, nancy jean baptiste <
fishsongf...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> RMac,
>
> About the shanghai "story", my ancestor had a similar one.we were
> always told that my great grandfather, Jose de Sousa Pereira Mancebo, born
> Beira/Velas, Sao Jorge in 1838 was shanghaied when he was sent down to the
> dock to buy a fish.by pirates! In truth I found him on a whaling ship
> as a cabin boy at the age of 15.he stayed with the whaler for a long
> timefamily story is though that he was sold into white slavery and sent
> to Englandno proof of that.but in 1866 he jumped ship off the coast
> of New Bedford somewhere and found a relative and had a marriage arranged
> and married a mail order bride from Pico before the year was out..I
> believe he was avoiding the draft.he had no hope of a future in the
> Azoreshe was in the middle of 11 children with several older brothers.
> He made his living in New Bedford rolling cigarsa skill he had learned
> in Brazil when the whaling ship was there for an extended period..just
> as a side note, I've had contact by several DNA 3rd cousins from
> Brazilwe have yet to find our common ancestor..
>
> Nancy Jean
>
> --
> From: gfsche...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:52:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Jose da Silva, b. about 1833, city?,
> Faial, Azores - shanghaied age 14 and brough aboad a cargo bark to Long
> Island, NY - Looking for any information.
> To: azores@googlegroups.com
>
>
> RMac,
>
> You can find maps of the Azores on the Azores GenWeb. http://goo.gl/k1ZDXv
> (Click on Maps).
>
> There is no place called "Sao Miguel" on Faial island. "Sao Miguel" is
> another one of the Azores islands.
>
> Never heard of anyone in the Azores having a family crest ring. Really not
> sure about that at all. Most claims of "family crests" have completely
> fallen apart in my research.
>
> The Azores are an autonomous region of Portugal. They have their own
> archive system and have digitized their records. You can use Tombo.pt/en to
> access the records (stay in the left pane until you drill down to Faial).
>
> You can research all 12 or 13 freguesias there on Faial and I am sure you
> will find the birth of a Jose to a parent with Silva in their name. In all
> of the villages. Kinda like finding a Joseph Smith in all 50 of the states.
>
> You really need to do more research here in the U.S. to ascertain his
> freguesia over there.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Jose Ferreira De Couto (born abt. 1920 in Acores/Azores, Portugal and died accidently either in 1956 or 57 in Montreal, Canada)

[Manita M]

Oh my that is so incredibly sad :(

I have an idea.

I live in Toronto and I have a contact at the Portuguese consulate.  I can
try asking him?

Please give her my contact information.
On Sep 10, 2015 1:15 AM, "'Kelley O'Rourke' via Azores Genealogy" <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I am helping Connie Couto search for her father, Jose Ferreira De Couto,
> who came to Montreal, Canada in March 1954 from Acores/Azores by ship (Sao
> Miguel) to work on a farm.  According to Connie, he came with a friend (she
> cannot remember his friend’s name) and was on the first of two ships that
> came to Canada.  He was one of the first of a group of Portuguese
> immigrants to leave Acores/Azores.
>
>
>
> The plan was, that he was to come to Montreal, Canada, work on a farm, set
> up a home and then send for his wife, Erania Mediros De Couto who would
> follow with their two daughters.  Sadly, he was killed in a hit and run
> accident either in August of 1956 or 1957.  Subsequently his wife never
> made the trip either (she died in a car accident in Acores/Azores and is
> buried there) but his two daughters, Esrisanto and Connie emigrated in 1965
> with their aunt.
>
>
>
> They never found out where he was buried or what really happened to him.
> They know it was in Montreal but do not know where.  Connie (she is now 62)
> is the only remaining living family member and would love to know what
> really happened to her father, Jose and where he is buried in Montreal so
> she may visit his grave.  She would like to know as much about his
> (short-lived) life here in Canada.  She now resides in Toronto with her
> family.
>
>
>
> Any pictures or information you could provide would be most welcome.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Kelley O’Rourke,
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Slaves

[Manita M]

This is very interesting.

All my CCA records research are in the eastern part of Sao Miguel so
perhaps that is why I've never seen an "escravo" but I may not have noticed
it either as I'm still a newbie and not fully translating the records but
just focusing on the dates, names and places.

I'm very curious to hear from others on this topic.

Would the slaves have been "purchased" overseas and been brought to the
Azores?  I'm assuming they mainly came from Northern Africa?

I do know that at the time of settlement they brought slaves to help
populate but I had assumed they would have become "free" once they got to
the Azores.

Hmmm.

DNA-wise:

Anyone with Azorean DNA must have some slave OR North African DNA. Of
course anyone from Southern Portugal has some North African already mixed
into them so that can also explain the DNA ethnic makeup, but back to
slaves.

I am assuming the slaves came from Africa?

Yes, I'm well aware that there was white slavery too but those white slaves
ended up in the Berbarian lands and in fact could be our pre-Azorean
ancestors but that's another topic.

I just wonder if these slaves were already in mainland Portugal or Madeira
and then sent to the Azores or if they came to the Azores from Africa
directly?

Interesting topic and would love to hear from anyone with knowledge on this
topic that could reference sources.
On Sep 3, 2015 7:01 AM, "MaryAnn Santos"  wrote:

> I've seen a number of references to slaves - "escravos" - in the CCA
> records. My research is primarily in São Miguel.
>
> MaryAnn
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:29 AM, linda  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 8:53:17 PM UTC-7, manita.morgado wrote:
>>>
>>> Slave?
>>>
>>> I've never seen or noticed that in a CCA records.  I guess it could have
>>> been there and I didn't realize.
>>>
>>> Really?
>>>
>>> How common would this have been?
>>>
>>
>> As it happens, this week I've been going through early and mid 18th
>> century baptismal and marriage records for Angra and Horta.  During this
>> period and in these two cities, references to slaves are relatively
>> common.   I jotted a few notes as I went along, but wasn't trying to be
>> exhaustive in catching them, and for Angra Baptisms 1719-1729, I counted
>> about 20 records for slaves.  Between 1710 and 1719, I noted at least 5 (by
>> then, I was growing tired of jotting page numbers, so there are probably
>> more).  Though generally of babies, several of these baptisms were
>> of adults.  I also observed two further records with English slave owners
>> rather than native Portuguese owners.  In Horta I took note of four slave
>> records (two baptisms and two obits), and one baptism in Velas, Sao Jorge
>> as well (there are certainly more instances of slaves in the records of
>> these two cities, but I stopped noting them).  Previously, I've observed
>> records for slaves in Lajes/Praya da Victoria, Terceira (possibly
>> elsewhere) too, but I don't have my notes about those to hand at the moment.
>>
>> Angra and Horta were two of the principal cities for the archipelago--
>> the seats of commerce and government-- so that may account for the presence
>> of the slave populations there.   These urban centers were populated by
>> some of the wealthier citizens of the islands.  I inferred from names and
>> titles that many of the slave owners were of high social status.  In two or
>> three cases, women were listed as the owners.   The time period and
>> places are critical-- Portugal was one of the earlier countries to ban the
>> practice of slavery, IIRC-- my notes are on another computer-- but I'm not
>> sure now of the dates.  If you have been going through 19th century records
>> and/or rural parishes, then you are less likely to have seen slaves
>> mentioned.  Also, if you aren't a native speaker (I am not), then it's very
>> easy to pass over the word.  I was also surprised the first time I
>> encountered and understood it.
>>
>> rambling thoughts late at night-- hope this is helpful,
>>
>> Linda
>>
>>
>>
 On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 4:28:30 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:

> The child of eight days baptized March 7? 1659 son of one of the
> slaves by the name of Maria of (belonging to) Barbara of Sao Goncalo (S.
> Goncalo is the name of the area/place in S. Pedro) The Godfather was
> Sebastiao do Rego son of Francisco Martins
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Sandra Perez 
> wrote:
>
>> Sebastiao's birth--bottom right.  I think I see Goncalo Frz or Joao
>> Goncalo Frz and maybe Barbara.
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-B-1643-1667/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-B-1643-1667_item1/P90.html
>>
>> --
>> Sandra Perez
>>
>> --
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with translation please. Very difficult.

[Manita M]

Slave?

I've never seen or noticed that in a CCA records.  I guess it could have
been there and I didn't realize.

Really?

How common would this have been?
On Sep 2, 2015 11:06 PM, "linda"  wrote:

> Wonderful!  thanks :)
>
> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 4:28:30 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:
>
>> The child of eight days baptized March 7? 1659 son of one of the slaves
>> by the name of Maria of (belonging to) Barbara of Sao Goncalo (S. Goncalo
>> is the name of the area/place in S. Pedro) The Godfather was Sebastiao do
>> Rego son of Francisco Martins
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Sandra Perez 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sebastiao's birth--bottom right.  I think I see Goncalo Frz or Joao
>>> Goncalo Frz and maybe Barbara.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-B-1643-1667/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-B-1643-1667_item1/P90.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sandra Perez
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Margaret M Vicente
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

Thank you KINDLY!

This is VERY HELPFUL.

I am DEFINITELY going now that I have such detailed instructions on how to
find it.

I am going to try to do that hike.  I love hiking and I want to walk in the
footpath of our ancestors, so this is going to be particularly special for
me.

Thank you for sharing your wonderful photos.

Do you happen to know the exact name of the trail by chance?  Is it an
official trail?  Is it this one?

http://trails.visitazores.com/en/trails-azores/sao-miguel/trilho-do-agriao

Or do I just ask a local?



On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 2:49 AM, JR  wrote:

> More or less, Grotas Fundas, or a little bit more inland; but it is
> difficult terrain, and undeveloped, so few people lived beyond the actual
> neighbourhood. It is all hilly area and that's where they would go work
> their small parcels of land or the larger ones owned by the wealthy
> landowners. Nobody lived in the hills. There was a mill down below and you
> can still see the giant stone wheel mill. My grandmother and
> great-grandparents ran a mill, but closer to Ribeira Grande, the street on
> the western end, where another creek by the same name ran by. The beach
> area in Grotas Fundas can be treacherous if you don't watch for the tides.
> Otherwise it is like any other beach. But remember, the "sand" is all black
> volcanic grains, absorbs heat and gets quite hot in the sun.
>
> In this photo
> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-kGWCB2c you
> can see the cows in the hilly areas as you go the last street, called the
> Guiteria.
>
> In this photo
> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-7Gpfjnk ,
> taken at Grotas Fundas at street level you see the hills the cover up
> Ribeira Quente. To get there, you have to climb the hills and wind your way
> towards those jutting hills. And well beyond those immediate hills is
> Povoacao. Although Furnas is in between, it is located more northward in
> God's country, as they say, the last frontier of Sao Miguel.
>
> In this image of Ribeira Quente
> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-jsf57Td you
> are looking west toward Ponta Garca and Vila Franca. But as you see, only
> the hill is visible, the same one you saw from the other side in Grotas
> Fundas.
>
> JR
>
> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 12:49:08 AM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> That "Ribeira Quente, limit of the freguesia de Ponta Garca" meant Grotas
>> Fundas? I thought it basically meant the edge of town. I have a lot of
>> ancestors from the "limit!"  Things that I learn from this list!
>> Cheri
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM, JR  wrote:
>>
>>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
>>> history and story.
>>>
>>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even
>>> today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the
>>> hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
>>> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
>>> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
>>> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
>>> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
>>> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
>>> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
>>> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
>>> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
>>> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
>>> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
>>> outstanding view.
>>>
>>> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards
>>> in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our
>>> ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned
>>> land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in
>>> the past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
>>> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
>>> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
>>> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
>>> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
>>> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
>>> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
>>> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
>>> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
>>> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
>>> Franc

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente

[Manita M]

*This is VERY helpful and I appreciate that you have referenced the sources
and combined them all together into one tidy document.*

 this will be my last POST on this topic 

Somehow, I just can't let this go! * I am completely fascinated.  Am I on
the only one?  I am sure we have we have many descendants from my 13th
great grandfather in this google group alone.*

Here are my thoughts and questions:

*1.  Y DNA testing*

Now that we have Y DNA testing AND have knowledge of the DIRECT paternal
line of my/our mysterious 13th great grandfather ... could some of those
gentlemen simply not get tested?  Then of course we need to compare those Y
DNA results to the OFFICIAL direct paternal descendants of the Count of
Benavente?  Sounds so simple, but I am sure it isn't.  Maybe I am off my
rocker.
*Is there any special studies out there on this ancestor?*
I am thinking something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHG_SBgQWAw

Yes, I realize that this is mtDNA and not Y DNA, but you get where I am
going with this.


*2.  What crime did he commit?*


*3.  Living in such a remote area (Grotas Fundas)*
Yes, I totally had the thought it was a rather remote spot to want to live
and reading the reference to it aligns to what I was thinking. Hmm.


*4.  Which count built a hospital by the name of "Nossa Senhora do Piedade"
along the Silver Route on the way to Santiago de Compostela?*

This fascinates me, as I have personally done 2 pilgrimages to SdC.  In
fact, I *might* be going back in November to lead a small group.


*5.  going to Rome and asking the Pope for forgiveness?*

I thought I had read that someone went to Rome to ask the Pope for
forgiveness.  Has anyone else seen a reference to that?  It could just be
me misunderstanding the Portuguese, but I'm curious if anyone recalls
reading such a thing.


*6.  Language spoken:*
This may appear to be an odd and maybe even a stupid question.  If this
count came from Spain, would he not be speaking Spanish or whatever the
dialect of that area of Spain is?  Or would it be normal for people at that
time to have spoken Portuguese and Spanish?  OR ... were there Spanish
speaking people in Sao Miguel who had to then learn to speak Portuguese in
the 15th century, BEFORE Spain invaded the Azores?  I know odd question,
but I am curious.


*7.  Miguel Figueiredo Corte-Real: Os Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente
Radicados in Acores Desde o Seculo XV*

Does anyone have a pdf of this book that they can share with me?


*8.  Spanish Nobility Documents*

There is reference in "Genealogia de los Condes y Duques de Benavente" that
the Count of Mayorga had a son by the same name and the dates line up to
my/our ancestor.  *Is there no further mention of this man anywhere else in
Spanish documents?*


9.  Anyone have *a pdf copy of "Genealogia de los Condes y Duques de
Benavente"?*










On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:48 AM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> *Jo**ã**o Afonso (de Pimentel) **“**das Grotas Fundas*
> *Died 2 Sept 1512*
>
> NB: this is the work of several people including Rodrigo Rodrigues, Andrew
> Rapoza, George Pacheco, Diana cestodio Silva, in addition to those cited.
>
> NAME: He became known in St. Michael, Açores as "João Afonso das Grotas
> Fundas" [Frutuoso]. Frutuoso never gives him the family name Pimentel nor
> does he ever make reference to a relationship to the Spanish Counts of
> Benevente.  This claim is made by his grandson  João Afonso, o Moço, of
> Faial da Terra, where he died on 16.4.1577.  On the cover of his will, in
> an old script, it says that the said  João Afonso, o Moço descendes from
> the Condes de Benavente of Castile.
>
>
> BIOGRAPHY: "The Pimentels and the Resendes families of the island of São
> Miguel descended from João Afonso de Pimentel who came with these names in
> the last quarter of the 15th century" [*Familias** Antigas da Povoação**]*.
> (It was also suggested that he arrive in the middle of the 15th century [James
> Guill]. "He settled in the place of Grotas Fundas, on the island of São
> Miguel, where he had a large family and house, by which he became
> well-known on the island as João Afonso das Grotas Fundas [Frutuoso]." "The
> origin of this João Afonso is wrapped in some mystery; nevertheless, his
> 5th grandson [through a daughter of João Afonso], Padre Pedro Furtado
> Leite, outlined his ancestry in a letter in which he wrote that his
> mother was descended from João Afonso who, in turn, was the descendant of
> the Counts of Benavente, of Spain. In truth, there are some nobiliaries
> that refer to a son of the third Count of Benavente (there is a perfect
> coincidence of dates), of the name João Afonso, who left Spain, and
> disappears from history. The third Count of Benavente, Alonso de
> Pimentel, also known as the Count of Mayorga, was married to Dona Maria de
> Quinones y Toledo. The subsequent nobiliaries referred to their son João
> Afonso de Pimentel [*Fami

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RR book - Errors and Ommissions

[Manita M]

You are right!   Thank you.
On Sep 1, 2015 11:14 PM, "JR"  wrote:

> That's Thereza. Will send you updated version to your email.
>
> JR
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 10:59:33 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>>
>> We got 2 records for Roza with the same parents.
>>
>> Check this out:
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1739-1752/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1739-1752_item1/P142.html
>>
>> Will my Rosa Maria please make herself known?
>>
>> I'm confused.   I find it hard to believe that there could be another set
>> of parents with the same name in PG.
>>
>> Could the earlier or later record be a child that may have passed
>> ...probably the first?
>>
>> I don't have an orbit record for her either, so not sure if that could
>> help determine if one past away and the next girl was named the same name?
>>
>> Just a guess.
>>
>> Would love your thoughts.
>>
>> Thanks for all your help with this.
>> On Sep 1, 2015 10:42 PM, "JR"  wrote:
>>
>>> This is Rosa's record:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1752-1760/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1752-1760_item1/P26.html
>>>
>>> PG bap- Roza- born- Nov 8- 1753, bap- Nov 15(?)- 1753, filha de
>>> Cyprianno do Rego nat PG and Antonia Barboza nat VFSM; Pad- Jozeph Pacheco
>>> e Roza Pacheca filhos familias de Sebastiam Furtado e de Barbara Pacheca
>>> cazados desta fraguesia.
>>>
>>> JR
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 1:19:30 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:

 Looks like most of that list was copied from me and Shirley Allegre. We
 are the ones that researched that line as we come from Cipriano do Rego and
 Antonia Barboza. We found 8 children for them.

 We never found a son named Francisco for Cipriano & Antonia.

 We never found the baptism of Rosa Maria. The October 1751 date is
 probably too close to the Feb. 1751 date of the sibling Theresa.

 We found the SECOND baptism of Jose on 8 Jan 1780 (he married 20 Jan
 1780). We did the research years ago and I'd have to pull the image up, but
 I think it says it was his 2nd baptism. And we were not sure that he died
 30 April 1829 in PG. We have that as a possible date that needs further
 research (I think we found another Jose Barboza running around - it's been
 many years since we've worked this line).

 We have the marriage dates and spouses of all except for Anna.

 We have a few of their deaths.

 =
 As for RR.Hugo Moreira wanted to go back through and double check
 all of RR's work. I believe he did that for volume 1. It didn't happen for
 the other volumes. Hugo died and their was some argument about publishing
 the remaining books of RR which finally happened. No fact checking was
 done. So it's up to us to check it ourselves.

 Cheri Mello
 Listowner, Azores-Gen
 Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
 Tainhas, Achada

 --
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>>> membership."
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>> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RR book - Errors and Ommissions

[Manita M]

We got 2 records for Roza with the same parents.

Check this out:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1739-1752/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1739-1752_item1/P142.html

Will my Rosa Maria please make herself known?

I'm confused.   I find it hard to believe that there could be another set
of parents with the same name in PG.

Could the earlier or later record be a child that may have passed
...probably the first?

I don't have an orbit record for her either, so not sure if that could help
determine if one past away and the next girl was named the same name?

Just a guess.

Would love your thoughts.

Thanks for all your help with this.
On Sep 1, 2015 10:42 PM, "JR"  wrote:

> This is Rosa's record:
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1752-1760/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1752-1760_item1/P26.html
>
> PG bap- Roza- born- Nov 8- 1753, bap- Nov 15(?)- 1753, filha de Cyprianno
> do Rego nat PG and Antonia Barboza nat VFSM; Pad- Jozeph Pacheco e Roza
> Pacheca filhos familias de Sebastiam Furtado e de Barbara Pacheca cazados
> desta fraguesia.
>
> JR
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 1:19:30 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> Looks like most of that list was copied from me and Shirley Allegre. We
>> are the ones that researched that line as we come from Cipriano do Rego and
>> Antonia Barboza. We found 8 children for them.
>>
>> We never found a son named Francisco for Cipriano & Antonia.
>>
>> We never found the baptism of Rosa Maria. The October 1751 date is
>> probably too close to the Feb. 1751 date of the sibling Theresa.
>>
>> We found the SECOND baptism of Jose on 8 Jan 1780 (he married 20 Jan
>> 1780). We did the research years ago and I'd have to pull the image up, but
>> I think it says it was his 2nd baptism. And we were not sure that he died
>> 30 April 1829 in PG. We have that as a possible date that needs further
>> research (I think we found another Jose Barboza running around - it's been
>> many years since we've worked this line).
>>
>> We have the marriage dates and spouses of all except for Anna.
>>
>> We have a few of their deaths.
>>
>> =
>> As for RR.Hugo Moreira wanted to go back through and double check all
>> of RR's work. I believe he did that for volume 1. It didn't happen for the
>> other volumes. Hugo died and their was some argument about publishing the
>> remaining books of RR which finally happened. No fact checking was done. So
>> it's up to us to check it ourselves.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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Re: Fw: [AZORES-Genealogy] Genealogy resources

[Manita M]

This is absolutely SPECTACULAR!

Thank you very much for sharing.

John, could you please private message me.

2015-08-31 12:26 GMT-04:00 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com>:

> Sorry! Here is the bibliography:
>
>
> Selected Bibliography
>
>
>
> Abrantes e de Fontes, Marques de. *Pereiras Titulares e Titulares
> Pereiras, *Edição da S. A. A: 1971
>
> Arruda Botelho da Câmara, Morgado João, *Instituições Vininculares e
> Notas Genealógicas. *Instituto Cultural de Ponta Delgada, 1995.
>
> Arruda, Manuel Monteiro Velho, *Colecção de Documentos Relativos ao
> Descobrimento e povoamento dos Açores. *Ponta Delgada 1932.
>
> Bairros, João Chaves. *Um Ramo dos Chaves: Um Ensaio de Pesquisa
> Genealógica, *Vila do Porto: 1995.
>
> Bartell, Paul “Louis XVII vécut aus Açores? *Illustration: *CLXXXVII:
> 20-1-1934.
>
> Bettencourt, Jacinto de and Luiz Filipe de Bettencourt.* Subsídios para a
> História Genealógica* *Insulana*: Estudo Andrades, Lisbon: 1911.
>
> Bettencourt, J. Moniz, *Os Bettencourt: Dos Origens Normandas à Expansão
> Atlântica. *Lisbon: 1993.
>
> Botelho, Visconde do. *Os Botelhos de Nossa Senhora da Vida*, 1957.
>
> Borges, Paulo de (editor) *et al., Memória e Identidade: Paróquia de
> Nossa Senhora dos Remédios.*
> Nova Gráfica, Ponta Delgada: 2006.
> Braga, Paul Drumond, *A Inquisição nos Açores, *Instituto Cultural de
> Ponta Delgada, Ponta Delgada: 1997.
>
> Câmara Municipal da Povoação, *Famílias Antigas da Povoação, *Povoação:
> 1945.
>
> Comissão Organizadora da Reunião da Família Ivens Ferraz, *Ivens Ferraz:
> Origens e sua Descendência*, Lisbon: 1999.
>
> Canto, Ernesto do, (editor) *Arquivo dos Açores* (Volumes 1-15) Instituto
> Universitário, Ponta
> Delgada: 1980-1984)
>
> *Extractos de Registos Paroquiais, *ms. nd.
> Biblioteca Municipal de Ponta
> Delgada.
>
> *Árvores Genealógicas extraídas das Saudades
> da Terra do Dr. Gaspar  *
> *Fructuoso.* ms. (1894) Biblioteca Municipal
> de Ponta Delgada, n.d.
>
> Cardozo, Manuel da Silveira, *The Portuguese in America: 590BC-1974, *Oceana
> Publications, Dobbs Ferry: 1976.
>
> Carreiro, Walter Manuel Pacheco. *Monografia Histórica: Freguesia de São
> Roque-Rosto do Cão*, S. Roque: 2003.
>
> Carreiro da Costa, Francisco. *Esboço Histórico dos Açores*. Ponta
> Delgada: 1978.
>
> Chagas, Frei Diogo. *Espelho Cristalino em Jardim de Várias Flores, 
> *Universidade
> dos Açores, Braga: 1989.
> Clode, Luis Pete, *Genealogia da Família Drummond,* Funchal: 1979.
>  *Registo Genealógico das Famílias que
> Passaram à Madeira. *Funchal: 1950.
>
> Cordeiro, António. *História Insulana das Ilhas a Portugal Sugeytas no
> Oceano Ocidental.*
> Lisbon: 1917
>
> Cordeiro, Pedro, *Imagens de Portugal: Ponta Delgada. *Tempus Publishing
> Limited,
> Gloucestershire, GB: 2001.
>
> Correia, Daniel Arruda. *Crónica dos Arrifes*, Empresa Gráfica Açoreana,
> Ponta Delgada: 1984.
>
> Corte Real, Miguel de Figueiredo. *Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente
> Radicados nos *
> *Açores Desde o Século XV. *Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira, Angra:
> 1968.
>
> Costa, Susana Goulart, *Açores: Nove Ilhas, Uma História *(Bilingual
> Edition), Institute of Governmental Studies, University of California,
> Berkley, 2008.
>
> Cros, Jean du, *Livro do Armeiro-Mor, (*Facsimile) Academia Portuguese de
> História, Lisbon:
> 1956.
>
> Cunha, Manuel de Azevedo. *Notas Históricas-Estudos sobre o Conselho da
> Calheta da Ilha de São Jorge: Povoadores, Apelidos, Genealogias,
> Procedências e Gente de Cor. *N.D.
>
> Dias, Urbano de Mendonça. *Instituições Vinculares: Os Morgados das
> Ilhas. *Ponta Delgada:
> 1941.
>  *A Vida dos Nossos Avós. *Vila
> Franca do Campo: nd.
>
> Dória, Francisco António. *Os Herdeiros do Poder*, Editora Revan, Rio de
> Janeiro: 1995.
>
> Dos Santos, João Marinho, *Os Açores nos Séculos XV e XVI, (*2 volumes)
> Direcção Regional dos
> Assuntos Culturais, Secretaria Regional da Educação e Cultura, Ponta
> Delgada: 1989.
>
> Entin, Theresa Ann Soares. *The History of the Oliveira Soares Family,
> MS, n.d. *
>
> Faria e Maia, Francisco de Atayde. *Capitães dos Donitários: 1439-1766. 
> *Instituto
> Cultural de
> Ponta Delgada, 1988.
>
> Férin, Cristiano, *Extractos dos Assentos Paroquiais da Freguesia dos
> Fenais de Vera Cruz, Fenais da Ajuda ou Fenais da Maia, *in *Insulana:
> Documentos, *LX, Ponta Delgada: 2004.
>
> Ferreira, Manuel. *Manuel António de Vasconcelos: o 1º Jornalista
> Micaelense e O Açoreano Oriental. *Edição Impraçor, Lda. Ponta Delgada:
> 1994.
>
> *Manuel António de Vasconcelos: O Homem e o
> Artista. *Instituto Cultural de Ponta
> Delgada: 1993.
>
> Forjaz, Jorge. *Famílias Macaenses*, Fundação Oriente, n.d.
>
> Freitas, Joaquim Francisco, *Portuguese Hawaiian Memories*, Honolu

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] an original settler of Sao Miguel, Azores in RR's book ... access to records prior to LANDING

[Manita M]

Thank you kindly for your response.  Makes sense that further research
would have already been done.

I have never heard of:
Nobiliario de Familias de Portugal (Gaio)

How does one get their hands on that?  Ideally a pdf?
On Aug 31, 2015 7:01 AM, "'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy" <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Some of those mainland connections are documented in Frutuoso (like the
> Velho Cabrals). In Rodrigo Rodrigues and in Forjaz (*Genealogias da Ilha
> Terceira*) whenever the lineage of an early settler can be traced back to
> the mainland, Rodrigues and Forjaz have not only outlined these connections
> but also list sources, e.g. *Nobiliario de Familias de Portugal *(Gaio),
> etc. If Rodrigues and Forjaz do not have those connections, then it
> probably means that they have never been discovered (and probably never
> will be). Keep in mind that Gaio and Frutuoso are not infallible; they have
> made some mistakes with these older lineages.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> John Miranda Raposo
>
>
>
> On Sunday, August 30, 2015 8:27 PM, Manita M 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Here is a question for those of you who have been able to research as far
> back to an *original settler of Sao Miguel*.  I have a few branches on my
> tree where I have an original settler by way of connecting my ancestors to 
> *RR's
> book* on Sao Miguel.
>
> *How do you now take the leap from Sao Miguel, Azores to the mainland?*
>
> What do I need to do?  What advice would you give?
>
> Now having said all that, because I have connected to the original
> settlers via RR's book, it begs another question that may negate my
> question above to a certain extent: *because we know some of the original
> settlers via RR's book, I would suspect that the research of figuring out
> where those people came from before arriving in Sao Miguel has already been
> done.  No?  How does one go about finding the records prior to arriving in
> Sao Miguel?*
>
> Looking forward to your guidance and thoughts on this.
>
> Thank you!
> --
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[AZORES-Genealogy] an original settler of Sao Miguel, Azores in RR's book ... access to records prior to LANDING

[Manita M]

Hello,

Here is a question for those of you who have been able to research as far
back to an *original settler of Sao Miguel*.  I have a few branches on my
tree where I have an original settler by way of connecting my
ancestors to *RR's
book* on Sao Miguel.

*How do you now take the leap from Sao Miguel, Azores to the mainland?*

What do I need to do?  What advice would you give?

Now having said all that, because I have connected to the original settlers
via RR's book, it begs another question that may negate my question above
to a certain extent: *because we know some of the original settlers via
RR's book, I would suspect that the research of figuring out where those
people came from before arriving in Sao Miguel has already been done.  No?
How does one go about finding the records prior to arriving in Sao Miguel?*

Looking forward to your guidance and thoughts on this.

Thank you!

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Familias Antigas da Povoacao

[Manita M]

That is a very kind offer.

I'm a bit surprised there isn't a pdf circulating out there.

I would be happy to scan and share with the group.
On Aug 23, 2015 4:00 PM, "Cheri Mello"  wrote:

> Manita,
>
> I have it, but it's a photocopy from a public library. My scanner does not
> work with this Windows 8 computer :( If you don't find a PDF, I'm willing
> to copy and mail if you want to reimburse me.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Achada Casamentos

[Manita M]

I'm jumping on this thread and going to ask a novice question.  What
determined what went into this book?  THE book?

Is it the original settlers?
On Aug 21, 2015 3:12 PM, "mances"  wrote:

> These people are in RR's book (Genealogias de São Miguel e Santa Maria).
> Isabel de Resendes Vieira married Antonio de Medeiros Sousa or Medeiros
> Melo in Achada on 4 jun 1729.
>
> Manoel
>
> Em sexta-feira, 21 de agosto de 2015 15:49:57 UTC-3, Paul escreveu:
>>
>> *Thanks for trying. I have looked through the Maia casamentos between
>> 1700 - 1730 and the Achada casamentos 1700-1728 three times each looking
>> for the marriage of Antonio & Izabel with out any luck. Currently looking
>> through Achadinha. If they are not there I'll either asking the group if
>> anyone has them in their tree or say they were married sometime between
>> 1728-1733 that are missing for Achada.*
>>
>>
>> *Paul G.*
>> On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 1:59:01 PM UTC-4, Richard Francis Pimentel
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> *The closest I have in my notes is a marriage on 4 Jun 1729 of Antonio
>>> Medeiros de Sousa and ? de Resendes Vieira. *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Rick*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>>>
>>> *Epping, NH*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Paul
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 21, 2015 12:20 PM
>>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Achada Casamentos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can not say yes or no at this time. I found her casamentos to my 6th
>>> great grandfather Bento Pacheco Rapozo on 11 Jan 1731 in Maia. Here's the
>>> link for the marriage:
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1705-1742/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1705-1742_item1/P175.html
>>> left page. It lists Izabel as a widow of Antonio Medeiros de Mello who died
>>> on 16 Nov 1730 in Maia. The baptism records for Bento's & Izabel's children
>>> list her being from Achada Grande. So I have been looking at the casamentos
>>> from November 1730 going backwards trying to find her marriage to Antonio
>>> and stopping at any record with an Izabel de Resendes. All this in the hope
>>> of finding her baptism record.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul G.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 11:32:25 AM UTC-4, Richard Francis
>>> Pimentel wrote:
>>>
>>> *Is it the marriage with Sebastiao Machado? If so it is this record: *
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-ACHADA-C-1690-1728/SMG-ND-ACHADA-C-1690-1728_item1/P30.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The marriage is on 28 September 1699. The groom is Sebastiao Machado
>>> son of Sebastiao Machado and Catherina do Espirito Santo, the bride is
>>> Isabel de Resendes daughter of Manuel Soares de Resendes and Anna Marques*
>>>
>>> *Isabel Resendes is my  6th great grandmother.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Rick*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>>>
>>> *Epping, NH*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Paul
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 21, 2015 11:17 AM
>>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>>> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Achada Casamentos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am hoping that the attached is Izabel de Resendes first marriage
>>> record. The record starts at the bottom the page and continues at the top
>>> of the following page. Can someone please tell me her mother's surname
>>> Maria  and what village they are from. If listed, where Izabel was
>>> baptized.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-ACHADA-C-1690-1728/SMG-ND-ACHADA-C-1690-1728_item1/P76.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Paul G.
>>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[Manita M]

As long as he was born in Portugal is my understanding.
On Aug 18, 2015 8:24 PM, "'Denise' via Azores Genealogy" <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> If my grandfather naturalized in the US does that mean that my father and
> I can not apply for the dual citizenship?
>
> Denise D’Antona
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:07 PM, David Perry  wrote:
>
> I got Portuguese citizenship through the San Francisco consulate - my
> father was born in the Azores.  After I received my citizenship, my son did
> the same thing in New York  My having done it first made it easier for
> him.  Actually, it was all pretty easy for both of us.  The only glitch
> that might have been a problem was my father changed his name from Joao
> Pereira which was on his birth certificate to John Perry which was on my
> birth certificate.  Fortunately, he had made an official name change back
> in 1939 and had a paper record to prove it.  There was concern at the
> consulate that older records wouldn't fly in Lisbon - I had to get a recent
> BC for my father, the one he had from 1939 wouldn't fly - but they let the
> name change thing go through.  Without that certificate, my (and my son's
> applications) would have been denied.
>
> As for taxes paid in both countries, if you earn money in both countries,
> you pay taxes in both countries.  The US is the only major country however
> that taxes you on earnings overseas even if you haven't set foot in the US
> for decades.  And while there is an IRS tax credit for income earned
> overseas, I don't know if that applies to capital gains taxes or other
> forms of income besides earned income.  The forms required to satisfy the
> IRS are formidable and typically cost a few thousand dollars to complete if
> you pay someone.
> David
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-7, Jose Medeiros wrote:
>
>> Marylyn
>>
>> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother
>> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
>> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the
>> names of your grandfather and grandmother
>> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
>> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a
>> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in
>>> English
>>>
>>> Sent from Windows Mail
>>>
>>> *From:* Marilyn Thompson
>>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
>>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail,
>>> but enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the
>>> requirements. Thanks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:
>>>
 I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule
 that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we
 moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco
 Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was
 convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no
 problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and
 helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço
 Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful
 whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my
 great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and
 everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a
 residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that
 if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language
 proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have
 all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate
 gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente
 country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not
 have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather
 deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor
 vehicles in any US state😊


 *From:* Jose Medeiros
 *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
 *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com

 In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a
 superior being to you
 I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my
 grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
 You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all
 lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
 The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
 I have a family member that lives in Minnesota an