[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: TAP airlines Boston to Po ta Delgada
Look closely. TAP is marketing flights that is it not actually operating. For example, TAP offers a flight from San Francisco to Ponta Delgada, but it's on JetBlue SFO-BOS and then over to PDL. Guess which infamous airline owned by the Azorean government is operating the flight to PDL? Buying the ticket through TAP but still flying on Azores Airlines (aka SATA), is no cakewalk. The basic incompetency of SATA to run on time--even on the scheduled date--is still, literally, up in the air. Tomás Leal On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:41:25 AM UTC-8, E. Sharp wrote: > > TAP Airlines will be flying from Boston to Ponta Delgada in 2020. This is > good news since Delta cancelled their flights. > > “E” > > Sent from my iPhone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/cd032b13-27a2-40d8-9fa8-135778d86234%40googlegroups.com.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: DNA
The XX configuration is tricky, which many either forget or do not realize. The Y-gene is so easy to follow because it always comes directly from father to son, father to son, at so on. My Y-gene is the exact same one my several times great-grandfather had (unless some genetic mutation occurred in between). With a female child, each parent contributes an X gene. Which grandmother that particular X gene came from is another matter. The X gene passed father to daughter had to come from the father's mother; however, she had an X gene from each parent, so the X gene the father passed on could have come either from his mother's mother or his mother's father. In turn, that X gene could have come from different grandmothers. What this means is full sisters can have different X genes via their mother, as the one from their mother passed could have come from any one of three grandmothers (either of two passed from the mother's parents or one passed by the father)! Add in great-grandmothers and it's even more complicated. In the case presented here, the fathers were different so the X gene each one passed could be from a different grandmother as well. Thus, we can see the importance of "triangulation" of getting DNA samples from first cousins for comparisons, in addition to that from siblings. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b90e1385-18d7-41b1-9ebb-799e6e5311fa%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Leal on Pico
On Pico, you will find Leals in Ribeirinha, but the birth records likely say Piedade because the priest did the record-keeping in Piedade. Ribeirinha because its own town separate from Piedade in the 1950s. There are also Leals from Ribeirahs (Santa Cruz and Santa Barbara). There may be Leals in São Mateus, also. After a lifetime of thinking my Leal family originated on Faial, I discovered I have several genetic matches with descendants of Leals from Pico. I haven't made the connection yet, as it is most likely about 6 generations ago. Have you submitted your DNA for analysis? Uploaded to GEDmatch? If you have, mine is there and we might find some matches. Could be interesting. My number is F196772. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese social group
What is now Fremont (which is a consolidation of several small towns) had a great concentration of Azorean immigrants. In contrast, Oakland had fewer. My grandfather's oldest brother settled and remained in Fremont while later brothers spread into Oakland and elsewhere, Still, though, the festas were in Fremont and they went there. Thus, an Oakland resident would be likely to be active in a Fremont-based group. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: FYI Azores and Alaska Airlines
SATA and Virgin America have long code-shared on SFO-BOS-PDL flights and Virgin has been merged into Alaska, so most probably Alaska is simply renewing an existing agreement because the full "integration" of Alaska and Virgin is supposed to be completed the end of this year, and the Virgin name will disappear completely by 2019. Tomás Leal On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:37:26 PM UTC-8, "E" Sharp wrote: > > Azores Airlines aka SATA and Alaska Airlines have signed a codeshare > agreement which means to those of us who live outside Boston area served by > Alaska, hopefully, can make better connections to fro Boston.. (I hope). > Remember also Delta will be having some flights in the summer to the Azores. > > "E" > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Visiting the Azores - Access to Pre 1700s records for Sao Jorge and Pico
Tony, I am in Santo Amaro at the moment but will be leaving today until next year, probably late spring, for the entire summer--including when you're here. I have a home here (Terra Alta) and recently discovered I have some genetic matches here, even though I thought my family line was from Flamengos, Faial. A genealogy colleague has extensive ties to Santo Amaro and will be here next summer as well. We ought to connect. I also know some individuals (can't get them to join this group, though!) who trace to Manadas and to Willem van der Haagen from there, and I've met a local historian who knows a lot about Manadas history. Cheri is correct (of course!) as to the location of records for Pico and Sao Jorge. Fortunately, ferry service between Pico and Faial is frequent in summer and the archives in Horta are easy to reach from the ferry terminal. Besides, Willem van der Haagen helped start the settlement in Flamengos, where my grandfather comes from, so you might enjoy a visit there. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Trans help Bap Santa Maria
To some extent, what Ángela Loura points out is made even more difficult by the *acordo* from the 1990s by which the Portuguese-speaking world agreed--to varying degrees--on standardizing spellings going forward, based on how they were actually being said. For example, many words that had "ct" in them, such as "projecto" changed to show how they were being pronounced: "projeto." (If only English did the same!) Thus, "Baptista" is now spelled "Batista." However, when doing genealogy, we strive to stay with the spellings as they actually appear on documents. For example, my great-grandmother's name appears as "Francesca" despite the fact that the only spelling I've seen--including for her own daughter--is "Francisca." Then we have to factor in human error, as in the priest performing the baptism and not paying closer attention to what he's actually writing or the peasant pronouncing a name in such a way that the person writing it hears something else. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Trans help Bap Santa Maria
Thank you for your comment, Sam. When pour house was first ready for occupancy at the end of 2009, many locals thought we were crazy to build a "new" house out of the stones and roof tiles of ruins, and worse that than to assemble those pieces to give the impression the "new" house was already from the 1800s. Really, the neighbors thought we were crazy--until I explained to them (in my then-rudimentary Portuguese) that we believed we should honor our Azorean ancestors and respect the past. My response struck a chord with several local residents, and since that time they have come to respect what we've done. Restoring Laureano's house cemented our place in the community and coincided with a resurgence of interest in the past and preserving the adega-style architecture of the area, which so many of the locals viewed as reminders of the past of poverty and desperation. More of them now see the beauty of what our ancestors did in the face of terrible adversity. I take for granted what we did, and I find once again I need a reminder--thank you, Sam--that rediscovering and then preserving our heritage is perhaps one of the most important things we can do in our time here. Tomás Leal On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 4:46:29 PM UTC, Sam (Camas, WA) wrote: > > Tomás; You’ve obviously done a service to the community and to the hearts > of its residents. Well done. > > > > Sam (Camas, WA) > > > > > <#561782.2426...@smtp112.mail.ne1.yahoo.com_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Trans help Bap Santa Maria
Oops! I just did a search on the complete text of *Mau Tempo do Canal* and discovered TWO spellings for the name of the same person! Nemésio also shows it as "Lauriano" when listing some townspeople of Santo Amaro but "Laureano" when quoting the sister Maria Margarida when she speaks with her brother Laureano. No wonder there's so much confusion about the spelling of names!Yikes! This second spelling (which we put in azulejos on the façade of the restored building) is the one confirmed for us by the owners of the Escola Regional de Artesenato de Santo Amaro, twins Alzira and Conceição Neves, both of whom knew Laureano when they were children and young adults. (Laureano died in the early 1960s.) Oh well, who ever said genealogical research would be simple? Tomás -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Trans help Bap Santa Maria
The spelling of names in the past is always a challenge, especially with varying degrees of literacy and the near-absence of widespread communication that could help form standards as with Maria, João, José, Manuel, António, and so on. So many other names have variant spellings because of the use of spelling as something sounded, based on the local pronunciation. Here on Pico, the "standard" spelling is Laureano. Many years ago, a well-known resident in Terra Alta, Santo Amaro had a near-mythic place in the minds of residents. His "fame" caught the attention of Vitorino Nemesio, who included a mention of Laureano in *Mau Tempo do Canal.* |A copy of the page from the book was made into an azulejo decoration for the ferry terminal in Horta (and it was moved from the old terminal to the new building). I was delighted to see the azulejo and a written spelling of the name because I now live on the property of Laureano's home as an adult, when he gained his "fame." The house was a ruin that posed danger so we rebuilt it to last another few hundred years. In the clearing, we found a few "artifacts" in the ruin, including the ink bottle he used with his writing to judges in São Roque, who valued his opinions based on his voluminous reading. We restored the ruin to its original appearance and named it "Casa do Laueano," much to the delight of several older residents, one of whom had tears in her eyes when she first saw the restored building. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Azorean passports vs ship passenger manifest
Not all immigrants to the U.S. arrived with official passports. My grandfather's oldest brother emigrated from Horta in 1885, but his passport was issued later to verify his Portuguese citizenship and was signed for by his younger brother, who remained in Flamengos the rest of his life. His signature is on the back of the passport. I assume that after-the-fact documents were not rare, as I cannot imagine any official issuing a passport for someone who had already left the country. It's possible your ancestors simply came over without papers. Apparently, passports were not always required for entry to the U.S. For example, https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/United_States_Passports shows periods when passports were required, and it appears none were required between 1862 and 1918. To my knowledge, my paternal grandfather from the Azores is the only one of my four grandparents who had a passport; the other three did not. My Azorean grandfather, who emigrated in 1907, did have a passport before his departure. Because he was already 18, his passport states he was granted an exemption from military service. He probably felt the need for a passport stating his military exemption because he would have been forbidden by law from leaving the country ahead of fulfilling his military obligation. My other grandparents did not have the same issue. In those days, many young men swam or rowed out to the ship rather than leave from the port, so they could evade the authorities and emigrate without fulfilling military service, which might have caused further hardship on the family--loss of labor on the farm, loss of income, and so on. I don't know why or how my grandfather got this exemption, though I assume some sort of "hardship" was claimed. His father (my great-grandfather) had already died, leaving the farm to his widow (my great-grandmother). Three of his brothers (including his oldest one) had already emigrated and the oldest brother had already sent passage from Horta to New York and New York to Oakland when my grandfather applied for his passport. Thus, my grandfather was fully sponsored before he emigrated. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Travel to Pico in August
The flight from Oakland to Terceira is, technically, a charter flight ticketed by Azores Airlines (the "new" identity of SATA International) but managed and operated by a private company. I took this flight last summer and it was wonderful. However, SATA has sometimes cancelled this flight and rebooked passengers from San Francisco or Oakland to Boston for the regular Azores Airlines flight to the islands, either Ponta Delgada, São Miguel, or Lajes, Terceira. Be on the alert. My assumption is such a change occurs when there are too few passengers for the charter flight to break even for SATA. Regardless, you definitely should book your ticket entirely to Pico (PIX) through SATA so that you are completely covered on each leg of the journey. SATA has code-share arrangements with Virgin America and JetBlue from SFO to BOS and then to PIX through either PDL or TER. I would attempt the through flight first before considering the ferry from Terceira to Pico. Reason: One ticket through SATA protects you against cancellations, delays, or who-knows-what because SATA then accommodates you with hotel and meal vouchers and retickets you for the next flight. If you piece-meal your transit any other way and happen to miss a connection, it's your problem. July and August are the highest demand months for travel to and from the Azores. If you are going, get your tickets NOW, if you can. The fares will be at their highest, unfortunately. The Oakland flight might well be sold out already. That's just how it is during high season. The later you go in August, the lower the fare; a return in September is cheaper than in August. This is because the demand shifts. However, you might want to spend a day or three either in Ponta Delgada or Angra, both to adjust to the time difference and for the adding sightseeing. As for ferry service, you can get information at https://www.atlanticoline.pt/p/p/ There are two high-speed catamaran ferries now running, cutting the transit time considerably. Seats on the ferries are generally easy to get up to the departure time. Useful to know: There is a significant discount for passengers over 65. As a foreigner, you must present a passport to verify your age; a driver's license or anything else is likely to be refused because it is not an internationally-recognized item. The ferry ride can be lovely. From Terceira, there is regular service from Praia de Vitória to Santa Cruz, Graciosa, to Velas, São Jorge, to São Roque, Pico. There is occasional service from Angra as well. The Atlântico line has information on all the routes. The new ferries, however, are enclosed and not open as the older Santorini was, so the ride is not at open-sea feeling as before. Still, the boats come close enough to the islands that you can see things otherwise missed by airplane. Where in Pico would you be staying? I'm in Santo Amaro the whole summer. It would be wonderful to meet a fellow list-member in person! Tomás Leal On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:40:26 PM UTC, "E" Sharp wrote: > A relative has invited my husband and I to their home in Pico the > beginning of August. We would leave out of Oakland to Terceira, I guess. > How does one get from Terceira to Pico? Are the flights usually full this > time of year Oakland to Terceira in August? > > Thanks, > "E" > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Monte de Baixo, in Candelária?
FYI, Monte is a village in the freguesia of Candalaria, Pico. It's just east of the town of Candalaria. Tomás Leal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Name of the parish and island
I'd be very interested in knowing what you come up with for this marriage. My grandfather's family is from Flamengos, and I've long been told that the Duartes are cousins. My grandfather emigrated in 1907 with his best friend and "cousin" Francisco Duarte. They were both about 18 at the time, sponsored by their older brothers who had settled in the East Bay area across from San Francisco, and moved and settled in the City. I knew the next generation of offspring of "Frank" Duarte, and they were certain the Duartes and Leals were related, as my aunt and father had insisted, but no one knew how. Obviously, the connection was too far back for anyone to know exactly. What's interesting is the Duarte name came from the Flemish founder Josse van Heurter, who first settled along the shore at Praia do Almoxarife but left due to a lack of potable water and some pirate attacks, and then to the valley just behind, Vale dos Flamengos, where the colony did well. "Duarte" also appears as "Dutra" and "D'Utra" as does the name of the "big city" of Horta. My Leal family name is not from the Flemish, though the family name "Silveira" runs through all five generations ahead of my grandfather that I can trace. All males use Silveira as their middle name, which could indicate the Leals married into and settled on land originally belonging to a Silveira family. This name came from a literal translation of Willem van der Hagen, a leader of the colony who traveled throughout the "triangle" of Faial, Pico and São Jorge under the name Guillerme da Silveira. Three of his children (two daughters, one son) remained in Flamengos the rest of their lives, and the daughters had children, many of whom used "Silveira" as their primary family identification rather than their fathers' names (which were inserted elsewhere). Somewhere, I'm guessing, offspring of van der Hagen (Silveira) and van Heurter (Duarte) married and formed the connection my family and the Duartes claimed existed. However, I cannot find it. Similarly, I cannot find a link from the offspring of van der Hagen and the Silveira family that features so prominently in my Leal family names. Sigh! I would be most interested in knowing what you're able to come up with regarding any Duartes of Flamengos. Perhaps we can find a similar name somewhere back on our trees. Alas, anyone in California who might have any clue is long dead. Tomás Leal On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 1:13:58 AM UTC-1, Sme wrote: > > Is this a parish on Faial? > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-FLAMENGOS-C-1820-1860/FAL-HT-FLAMENGOS-C-1820-1860_item1/P89.html > > Marriage of Antonio Francisco Duarte and Anna Luisa,for both sets of > parents. > > Thank you kindly. > Suzanne > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Meaning of "canada"
We have a canada running through our property on Pico. It's a footpath running from the rua up the side of the hill to allow access to the various terraces which are land-locked. Canadas started as footpaths, whether providing access to terraces above, cutting through a woods, or leading to someone’s house from one of the “caminhos,” which were more used roads within and between towns. To identify where someone lived or something was, villagers gave names to many of the canadas. Over time, some of the canadas got widened so a cart could get through and some got gravel put on them. Outside of the established cities such as Ponta Delgada, Angra, Horta, and a few others, most Azorean roads had only popular names the locals used until the second half of the 20th century, when "official" names came into being. Some canadas became newly-named roads that kept the word "canada" in their names, but often these new roads were given names honoring various individuals. Thus, a canada name that appears on an old birth, marriage, or death registration may no longer exist by that name—if it exists at all today. Sometimes, oldtimers remember where a certain canada used to be or what name a current road popularly had in the past. As a result, a canada can be a nameless footpath but today it could also be a back alley or a minor road in a town. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Source Reference
The English teacher in me writes: "Proper" citation depends upon the discipline involved and the specific reading audience. The two main styles used throughout the U.S. are those of the Modern Language Association (MLA) and the American Psychological Association (APA). The two are similar and also significantly different. Every English department uses MLA and social sciences use APA. Each style differs because of the type of sources used and what aspects of those sources are more important. For example, for an in-text citation, MLA requires name and page number but APA requires name and year of publication. MLA is more interested in exactly where the citation came from and APA is more interested in how current the information is. MLA requires a "works cited" page that provides full publication information in a particular order and APA requires a "references list" with information in a different particular order. There are several other styles in use as well. "How do I cite . . . ?" depends on what audience you're writing for. Regardless of audience, you know some things need to be available for your reader: - The source you used for the information you cite. For a general audience, a simple "signal phrase" at the start of the sentence telling readers where you got it is sufficient. In terms the information frommy grandfather's birth registration, that I read the physical record book in the Horta archives, accessed the same page online via the CCA site, and had Vanda Fraga, a notary in Madalena, Pico, get a certified record for me doesn't really make any difference in terms of the information. All three provided me the same basic information. If I just say where I got it in the sentence, that's probably good enough. - What should the reader be able to do with your source? If the reader should be able to duplicate your method and find the exact same information, then you need to tell the reader exactly where you looked. If there is no reason for the reader to duplicate your effort, there's no need for a formal citation. - If you are publishing an article in a professional journal, your readers have specific expectations of how you cite your sources. Follow those guidelines. Without researching the point at all, I have a hunch genealogy falls within the general umbrella of social sciences, so journals would use APA. Posts to this list would not. Can you tell I'm teaching Freshman Composition online while spending the summer here in the Azores? :-) Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Puzzling birth and death records
Yes, puzzling and confusing. My grandfather was born from the pregnancy following that of stillborn twins. Yep, he was given the name of one of the twins. In tracking down names on one line from Praia do Almoxarife, I repeatedly saw siblings with the same first name (the boys, of course most of the girls were "Maria") but with some variations in middle names and even in "last names" used in adulthood. While I understand that Catholic Church was rather adamant about baptizing a child only with a saint's name, there were so many more saints than names used in the Azores! What adds further confusion is when father and son have the same given name. The son may use his mother's family name to distinguish himself from his father--or some other name entirely. That may be the only name he goes by, which makes for confusion when tracing the names. Again, when tracking down names from this one line in Praia, I noticed one son's last name was not the same as his father's OR his mother's. Go figure. What I have learned is that names often were tied to land ownership. For example, a woman who owns land might use that family name all her life and never take her husband's name. Her children may have her family name somewhere in the string as a way of linking with the land ownership. Of course, everyone in the village knew who was who, so it didn't matter. Obviously, no one was thinking of those of us many, many years later trying to fill out the names and dates on a family tree! Though my grandfather's family name was Leal, all males in his paternal line had Silveira as a middle name (I have names back only three generations before my grandfather, into the early 1700s). Given the family was from Flamengos and three children of the town's founder Guillerme da Silveira (né Willem van der Haagen) remained and died in Flamengos leaving children, it's quite possible the use of Silveira in the Leal family line indicated some connection with one of these three children--which would mean I'm directly descended from van der Haagen himself. However, the use of Silveira could well have been an affectation or aspiration at one point. It may also have been an indication of illegitimacy. (Van der Haagen himself was illegitimate.) Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Other sites
On Saturday, March 21, 2015 at 5:19:17 PM UTC-7, Rosemarie wrote: > > . . . If you are searching Pico or Faial, there is another site: > www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt. > I've tried using this site, as some ancestors come from Praia do Almoxarife. However, the bulk of my ancestors are from Flamengos, just inland from both Praia and Horta. Anyone have any idea why the records from Flamengos are not available on this site? On the chance records may have been moved, I did check all three parishes of Horta but turned up nothing matching any of the names I have. Frustrating! Unfortunately, I don't have any dates for anyone earlier than my great-grandparents (both born in Flamengos), so I'd have to go page by page in the online copy of Flamengos records until I hit something--a task that would clearly take the equivalent of many weeks of non-stop searching. I was hoping to find a shortcut. Sigh! Tomás Leal Flamengos, Faial: Leal, Silveira, da Costa Prair do Almoxarife, Faial: de Vargas, Dias, Dutra, Henriques, Pereira -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: DNA STUDY AZORES
I got the complete study by scrolling down and clicking on the Blackwell Publishing link, where I got the full file in PDF format and downloaded it: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1469-1809.2004.00147.x/pdf Tomás -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] censuses in Terceira around 1806-9
Yes, there are indeed censuses taken in the Azores. I have a copy of a book detailing the families of the frequesia of Santo Amaro, Pico, from a census in 1883 was published a few years ago (limited number) with government grants. There is a similar book for the freguesia of Prainha, Pico. The books arranged the information by road and house numbers (which are different from today's addresses, as those came only recently), and for each entry there is detailed information on the names and ages of all residents and all the land holdings of the family, along with the uses of each holding (pasture, grain, vineyard, and so on). The books were published in sufficient number to be distributed to each household in the frequesias (which is how I got my copy) and there are some additional copies that are sold at the multi-media center in Sao Roque do Pico. Tomás Leal > > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: São Roque do Pico family genealogy up to the 18th century
My summer home is within the freguesia of Santo Amaro, so I'll check with my contacts there about Igor Espínola de França's book. There are already two large books published with government support that are based on the 1883 census. The first book was on Prainha and the second one (which I have) is on Santo Amaro. I wondered when someone would do something similar for other places in the conceilho. I'll post what I find out. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Where to buy shoes on Pico?
Alas, wish I had known you were searching, as I could have shown you some stores you could visit for those shoes. Shopping can be a great frustration because the local stores are so poorly marked. Often, I happen to walk by a building and see an open door--a little loja! Who knew? The best way to find where to buy something on Pico is to ask a resident--and hope you can follow the directions, as they are usually vague and based on some visual clue known only to someone who already knows where the store is. If you checked Sol-Mar in Madalena, you were two blocks away from a sporting goods store that has a shoe department with every kind of athletic shoe. Also, you were one block away in the other direction from a "Chinese store" that also has a wide selection of shoes (mostly women's, though, but several men's as well). All the larger towns have stores owned and operated by immigrants from Macau, who have come in under special conditions set by the Portuguese government to provide goods at lower prices. They import scads of goods made in China and other Asian countries; some are of inferior quality and some are completely lousy. However, some are pretty good, and the prices are amazingly low. If you're visiting for a few weeks and need a pair of walking shoes, a Chinese store could be the place to get just what you need for the time you need it, and the cost will be in line with your use. FYI, I ship pairs of shoes over for myself each spring so I'll have them there in summer. I have to because I wear special shoes with rocker soles that enable me to walk without pain or difficulty (and avoid surgery that has only a 50-50 chance of success). Thus, I don't know first-hand the quality of the shoes at these stores, but I do know plenty of locals who have bought shoes there, and they're satisfied. Everyone: Next time you're headed to anywhere in the archipelago in the summer, let us know ahead of time, as several list members come here each year for extended periods of time. For example, I usually get to Pico late May and stay through the summer. I have family in Flamengos, Faial, so I go over there now and then. With the "third age" fares on the ferries, I go to other islands for brief visits. Because some of us are here for extended periods and have learned more ins and outs of finding things, especially specific locations and records, we can sometimes aid genealogical research of other members. I have done some digging around here for list members in the U.S. and photographed the homes of some earlier family members. Just as list members help each other with genealogy matters on the list, so we can help each other here in paradise in the Atlantic! -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Naming of Expostos
Another aspect of the expostos--and I don't know whether this has come up earlier or not, so please forgive my possible duplication--is something I learned on a short visit to Santa Maria last week (with Nancy Jean Baptiste, in fact!). Various pirate raids preceded some increases in the number of children left on the wheel. No doubt some rapes occurred during these raids, and the women probably abandoned the children rather than kept them as perhaps painful reminders or even because of the stigma the children might incur as the invaders' offspring. Though I haven't seen evidence, I have heard stories, both in the Azores and from other countries such as Croatia, that the children resulting from rapes were officially abandoned and sometimes given to their birth mothers after they officially abandoned them. Thus, the mothers could in fact raise their own children (and, presumably, be able to nurse at the time) without the shame of having been raped or their children experiencing the stigma of bastards of pirate invaders. Life could go on almost as though nothing had happened. However, I do suspect that everyone knew the real story, and the leaving of the child on the wheel and placement of the abandoned child with a wet nurse (the birth mother at times) was simply a device for maintaining social acceptance for the mother and gaining that acceptance for the child. Yes, many knew, but in time some would "forget" and others would be born never knowing the story. Today, there is much less public shame in having a baby without marriage or being a single mother, so it's easy to overlook the social repercussions that could occur in the past. However, things were not so different "in the old days." Girls did get pregnant without being married. Extra-marital affairs happened. Priests did not always mind their vows. Things happened, and villages needed a mechanism for keeping things going, which meant reinforcing the prevailing social standards no matter what actually happened. The wheel was both a salvation for an abandoned child but also a way for adults to maintain their positions in the village. Can you imagine how standards would have collapsed if the truth were ever publicly acknowledged and accepted? Tomás -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Finder Matches to the British Isles and Ireland
I too was surprised that my Y-DNA results were simply "Celtic," which I've
always associated with Ireland and the British Isles--my mother's side.
What was more surprising is the long line of males on my paternal side--the
Y chromosome sources--coming up Celtic, so I was a bit confused.
I dug into some history and found there were TWO Celtic migrations, both
from central Europe westward. The second one swept up through modern-day
France and across the channel to Ireland and the British Isles, and the
timing of this one covers the period of the Norman Invasion. What was news
to me was the much earlier one that turned southward and went into the
Iberian Peninsula and settled in the area of Galicia. Then I learned that
the Portuguese language is derived from Galician, as is modern Spanish.
Thus, "Celtic" made more sense for my Y-DNA line, making Portuguese a
Celtic language. Even today, Galician folk songs and dances (viewable on
YouTube) resemble what I've seen in both Ireland and in the Azores.
Further, I found that the Celtic genes do appear in some people from
Flanders, though not a majority. My paternal line is from Flamengos, Faial,
which as many on this list know was settled by Flemish colonists, so it's
possible the Celtic strain from Flanders into Galicia made it to Faial as
well. Wilhelm van der Haagen was a leader of this colonization (at the
invitation of the Portuguese king), and he adopted a Portuguese translation
of his name: Guilermo Silveira. The Germanic "haag" is the equivalent of
the Portguese "silveira," a name that appears in the middle of every male
on my paternal side from my grandfather to the grandfather of my
great-grandfather (as far back as I know names, so far). Further, three of
van der Haagen's children (two daughters and one son) are known to have
settled and died in Flamengos. Most of us know the Portuguese tradition of
using the mother's family name as a "middle name" for many offspring, but
Azoreans also seem to use family names to indicate connection with land as
well. A woman might retain her family name after marriage if the couple
remained on land her family had owned, for example.
Thus, a supposition I'm trying to track down is that the males on my
paternal line had some connection with a female some generations earlier
who owned land in the "Valley of the Flemish" ("Vale dos Flamengos" is
still used as a name for the area) and whose family name was Silveira,
possibly one of van der Haagen's daughters. A Leal married a Silveira and
moved to live on her family's land. The second part of my hypothesis is
that even though Silveira is a fairly common Portuguese name (similar to
"Smith" in the U.S. in occurence), the persistence of its use with males in
my paternal line has something to do with a desire to indicate a connection
to the "original" Silveiras--the children of van der Haagen. None of my
Faialense relatives knows of any such distant connection, but there is
little knowedge at all among them about previous generations. For people
living in subsistence, focus was more on present-day survival than ancestry
records, so it's not surprising so little is known further back than a
generation or two.
Tomás Leal
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Citizenship and language requirements
There is some confusion, and I do know the correct information. Countries within the European Union have aligned citizenship laws to one standard: Citizenship extends to the CHILD of a citizen. Anyone born of a Portuguese citizen has by birth Portuguese citizenship. A birth within Portugal is registered officially with the government and the person need to nothing else. A birth outside of Portugal must be registered with the Portuguese government. This can be accomplished through a consulate. Citizenship does NOT extend to grandchildren. A grandchild may claim citizenship AFTER the parent claims citizenship, but not before. Portugal does have additional opportunities for citizenship. One is by marriage to a Portuguese citizen. After a specific period of time (which I think is three years), the non-Portuguese spouse may request citizenship. The request must be completed entirely in Portuguese. This is the extent to which the spouse demonstrates fluency. Another opportunity is for a grandchild of a citizen, as is my situation. Because my father never claimed citizenship through his father, I cannot make my claim as a child of a citizen, only as a grandchild. In this situation, I must fulfill four requirements: 1. Prove citizenship of the grandparent, usually through a registration of the grandparent's birth, which in days gone by was done by the parish priest when listing the baptism. This proof must be an official copy, which can be obtained through the government. 2. Prove the absence of a criminal record. In North America, this can be initiated through the local law-enforcement authority and in the U.S. ties into FBI records. This record must be recently acquired when applying for citizenship. "Recently" seems to mean within the past six months. 3. Prove a minimum of three years of residency in Portugal. This is the tricky part for grandchildren in North America who are full-time in North America. I have a home in Pico and spend the entire summer there. This is my fifth summer here, and I have an official document from the junta of the freguesia that I am here "a major part of the year." 4. Demonstrate fluency in the Portuguese language. Here, things get a little murky--in true Portuguese fashion. There is a written test that can be administered at the consulate. In some areas of the U.S. the test can also be administered by individuals authorized by the Portuguese government to administer the test, such as any one of several teachers of Portuguese language and culture in the U.S. who have official status with the Portuguese government. In my situation, I am studying Portuguese from a woman who was a teacher employed by the Portuguese government in Angola and Pico. She is retired both from teaching and from her U.S. job. As a condition of securing her qualification for a Portuguese pension, she has been operating a small "school" teaching Portuguese language and culture. In the San Francisco Bay Area, there is a group of such teachers, all of whom are recognized by the Portuguese government and receive instruction materials they can use, though they are not paid for their work by the government. Every year, there is a conference of these teachers and the consul and other officials attend. In areas with concentrations of Portuguese immigrants (primarily Azorean), it is likely you can find someone who can help. The nearest consulate (San Francisco has one, fortunately) can also provide some guidance. Another example of the regulations: I belong to a local association. There is a married couple in which the wife was born in Portugal and emigrated as a young adult. She married a man born in California whose grandparents were Portuguese immigrants but whose parents never claimed citizenship. His grandparents and parents are dead. Their two adult sons would like to secure citizenship, and they attempted through their mother. However, the government insisted on proof of their legitimacy and they had to provide copies of their parents' marriage registration. Notice I wrote "registration" and not marriage "certificate." The parents married in California and never registered their marriage in Portugal. This has now been done and both sons can file claims of citizenship. Because they are citizens by birth, they merely have to show their mother's birth as a Portuguese citizen and the registration of her "foreign" marriage. One son is engaged and he inquired about citizenship for his non-Portuguese spouse, as both want an EU passport for travel within the EU and for the possibility of living and working in the union. After the marriage, the spouse must wait three years and then apply, which he will do through the consulate in San Francisco, with a request written in Portuguese. This information came directly from the consulate staff. And, yes, notice that I wrote "he" for the son's spouse.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Muito obrigado, Sr. Ventura!
Friday I attended an all-day workshop led by João Ventura on methods for tracing ancestry through Portuguese records, particularly Azorean records. The workshop was wonderful and João's formidable skills were apparent. I was so happy to meet and talk with a list member with so much expertise that he so willingly shared with us. I learned so much! The workshop was part of a four-day Annual Conference on Portuguese-American Education and Culture presented by the Luso-American Education Foundation and hosted by U.C. Berkeley, which this years celebrated the fortieth anniversary of the "Carnation Revolution." It was attended by the Consuls General of Portugal and Brazil, the representative of the Governo Regional dos Açores, and several Portuguese language and studies instructors. I had a great time brushing up my Portuguese is preparation for my next trip to the paradise in the Atlantic in May. Muito obrigado, João Ventura, por sua generosidade! e valiosas. Estou tão feliz para se encontrâ-lhe e aprender tanta informação valiosa. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Legitimate vs Natural
Quarta-feira, 29 de Janeiro de 2014 9:53:06 UTC-8, Cheri Mello escreveu: > > Maybe I should have typed the whole thing out instead of pulling it out of > context. > > filho legitimate: baby born in wedlock > filho natural: baby's parents not married > filho illegitimate: one parent married to somewhere else, as John stated. > > Ah! This makes sense. I was reading your previous clarification as using "natural" by itself, similarly to how it's used on other paperwork. Coupled with "filho" the meaning is clear and quite different from the use on the marriage registration. And, may I say, this little "slip up" is completely insignificant in the context of all the fabulous things you've done with this list and all the help you've given so many of us in our genealogy list. :-) Always a fans of yours, Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Legitimate vs Natural
To add a little spice to this discussion . . . On the registration of my great-grandparents' marriage, "natural" is used in the sense of "native of" or "born in." For example, my great-grandfather is described as "natural, baptisado, e moradôra da rua de Igreja desta freguesia," which I understand as "born, baptized, and living in Rua de Igreja of this parish." He is further described as the "filho legitimo" of his parents who also are "naturais" of the same parish, as is my great-grandmother. Her parents, in contrast, are from two different villages, Flamengos and Almoxarife, though both clearly lived in Flamengos at the time of the marriage. The father was described as "natural dos Flamengos" and the mother as "natural do Almoxarife." Seems the translation of "natural" can shift depending on context. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese Citizenship
Yes, we did have this discussion some time ago--I was part of that discussion because I had gotten the information and had spoken with the Portuguese consul at that time in San Francisco. I have recently spoken with the current consul, who confirmed my understanding. The European Union standard, to which all member countries have been coming into alignment with, stipulates that citizen extends to the child of a citizen. Portugal has a provision for the grandchild of a citizen. I am a grandchild, so I qualify but I must meet additional criteria: - Residency of three years - Clean criminal record - Satisfactory score on the Portuguese language exam. Because I have lived in the Azores for 12 weeks a year since 2009, I was able to get a certificate from the junta presidente of my freguesia stipulating I had spent "a major part of each year" in the country. This coming year, I will be there for an even longer period. I am studying with a Portuguese native who was a teacher while living in Angola and who has an arrangement with the Portuguese government to act as a teacher in the U.S. The language exam is my only hurdle remaining. BTW, I already have European Union citizenship and passport through an Irish grandparent, which I got in 1987, just before Ireland brought its laws into alignment with the EU standards. The window closed six months after I got my citizenship, so I was lucky. Thus, I can live and work anywhere in the EU. To qualify for a residency card, I need to spend more than 90 consecutive days (the maximum allowed without a residency card), and I will qualify in 2014. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Hawaiian Born - Apply for Citizenship??
According to The Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, SEC. 305. [8 C. 1405], "A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth." Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Links to other Flamengos records?
Sábado, 16 de Novembro de 2013 3:19:11 UTC-8, Doug da Rocha Holmes escreveu: > > Hi Tomas, > > With what you found, is there any hint as to how we are related according > to the Family Finder test? > If one branch is from Pico, maybe that's the one to pursue. > > Doug da Rocha Holmes > Hey, Doug! Nothing yet. What my great-grandparents' marriage registo shows is that my great-grandfather's parents were from Flamengos, and my great-grandmother's father was also from Flamengos though her mother from Praia do Amoxarife. So far, no one from Pico, though I know the Leal name exists there (as well as on Terceira). Next time I'm over there, I'll have to spend a day or two in the archives in Horta, flipping through page after page trying to find records for this earlier generation. I have no idea of their birthdates, so I'll just have to flip, flip, flip until I hit something. It's fortunate that these old records identify parents and grandparents as well as their parishes. There was a practical reason, of course, in that so many individuals had so few names used over and over and over. Seeing a child's baptism record state the names of both parents and both parents' parents is a big help. Bet no one was thinking of helping genealogists of later centuries! Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Links to other Flamengos records?
Thank you, Pam Santos! Now I have the portal page bookmarked. I was able to find my greatgrandmother's baptism record and my great-grandparents' marriage record. YAY!! Tomás Leal > >> > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Links to other Flamengos records?
Thanks to another member of the list who posted a link, I was able to click and search for my great-grandparents' marriage registration in 1868. The link was http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-FLAMENGOS-C-1860-1891/FAL-HT-FLAMENGOS-C-1860-1891_item1/ What I cannot figure out is how I can now move to other Flamengos records such as births and deaths. If I "trim"the URL to try to get to a main directory, I get an error message. The only thing I can do is go to the domain name, but then I cannot figure out what to click to find what I want. Does anyone know how I can drill down from the homepage of Culturacores and get to the volumes I'd like to look at? Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Finder Matches and the Population Finder bar
As long as you're going to bring up the matter, Cheri, let me add my ,02 euros worth: Given there is already an option for user information to be made "Private" on Family Tree DNA, what not make the match bars also available for privacy or "opt out"? It seems such a waste to close off such rich information because of complaints from some users. As anyone can readily tell by looking at the various reports, most users are fully public with their information on the site. The site's "now you see it, now you don't" seems overkill, a massive solution to a much smaller problem. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] P.S. to Listing childless marriags
One more question: What about co-habitating couples who never married? Certainly if there are children it makes sense to list both parents, perhaps with a notation there was no marriage. But what of an unmarried couple with no children? It would seem that the more information shown, the better for others researching the family genealogy. Tomás -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Listing childless marriages?
Is it correct to list all marriages of an ancestor, even those that produced no children? In building my family tree, I have been showing all marriages, even those that ended in divorce or death but without children. Someone recently questioned whether it is "correct" to list non-relatives who do not factor into genealogy because there were no children. My stand is that whatever happened in the family--birth, marriage, death--gets shown. What do others on this list do? Tomás -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] The location on the registration may not be the real location
I just found out that the location listed on a birth, marriage, or death registration may not be where the event actually occurred. Instead, it may be simply the larger town where registrations were made. While here in Pico, I offered to check some family names for Mike Gilfilian in nearby Piedade. MIke's records list many generations born, married, and died in Piedade. However, I hit a dead end--sort of. Longtime residents said that none of the family names are from Piedade. Further, they told me, emigrants from Piedade went to Canada and not the United States. Instead, they told me, the names are from a village a few kilometers away, Ribeirinha. Emigrants from that village went to the United States and not Canada. Why did all the paperwork show Piedade instead of Ribeirinha? Until 30 years ago, Ribeirinha was not a separate political entity with its own government offices. Thus, all birth, death, and marriage registrations for Ribeirinha were filed with the registrar in Piedade, who in turn checked in with the camara in Lajes do Pico. The location Piedade was used because that's where the registrar lived and worked! I went over to Ribeirinha and checked with someone I know there. Sure enough, the family names are known in Ribeirinha. Most are still in use today, so now we have a few warm leads I'm trying to follow. If you seem to have hit a dead end, you might check a nearby village or town on the chance that records were kept elsewhere in years gone by. Tomás Leal, in Pico for only a few more days and very sad to be leaving so soon. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question- How are last names passed down in Azorean Culture?
The naming practice is just as confusing to me when I am in the Azores among the living as it is in searching documents. I have neighbors I know are related to each other with different family names. Some children use the father's family name, others use the mother's. One factor, I've learned, is the repetition of the same handful of given names. Most women have Maria as their first given name, which means most women have the same name. How do you distinguish one from the other? Some use a combination of first and second names as in "Maria Santo Christo" or "Maria da Paz." Some go entirely by the second name. Many women named "Maria Conceição" go only by Conceição. One family here of four sisters is an example. Each one is Maria, though only the first one uses that name (Maria da Gloria), the next two (twins) use only their second names, and the fourth one goes back and forth between Maria Margarida and just Margarida. In her case two different people talking about her to me might use different names to refer to her. As for a family name, that can depend upon whose land the family now lives on. All four of these sisters use their family name, not their husbands' names, primarily because their family has been a prominent one for a few generations. In the case of my family in Faial, my grandfather's youngest sister remained in the house to care for their mother and she remained in the house after their mother died. Her last name was Leal, same as everyone else in the family. She married "the boy next door" whose family name was Coelho; however, she deemed "rabbit" an inappropriate name for a woman, so she never changed her last name. In turn, both her sons used the name Coelho, but she used Leal with her daughter, which she still does, long after her marriage to Abreu (another boy next door). Maintaining the Leal name ties her with the property and signals everyone how the property has passed from generation to generation. Another complication is the repetition of the male names José, Manuel, Jõao, António, or Carlos. The oldest son quite often gets the same first name as his father. I have a neighbor, Manuel Paulino, whose adult son is also Manuel. So the two could be told apart, the son uses his mother's family name: Manuel Furtado. This is what everyone calls him. In turn, his daughters use Paulino as their family name. Thus, their birth certificates probably show their parents' last names as different from their own. In the nearby town of Santo Amaro, most men and many women use two names: António Carlos, José Manuel, Maria de Jesus, Mary Jõao, and so on. Many of my neighbors do not even know each other's last name Reason: Many of the 294 permanent residents have one of three dominant family names: Morais, Neves, or Melo. Some have TWO of those names in their "full" names. Here in my fourth summer, I am still trying to get the names straight, and I frequently have to look at my notes to see who is who. It took me two summers to determine whether it's António Carlos or Carlos António I call for delivery of the gas cannisters. And then I had to spend another summer getting straight whether I was to call António Carlos Melo Neves or António Carlos Neves Melo! Finally, I have it right. Really, getting the names straight among the living is difficult enough; searching through old records seems nearly impossible. But as many of us have found out, the results are worth the effort! Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Coming to US illegally - Passporte question
On Sunday, June 23, 2013 8:04:19 PM UTC, E Sharp wrote: > > Here's a question for you all including those living in the Azores. If > someone entered to the US illegally, under dark of night, ca 1900 do you > think they would they have gotten a Passportes before they left Faial? The > ship left Faial illegally and there were about 40 passengers on the ship. > My grandfather and three of his older brothers left Faial between 1885 and 1905 and supposedly entered through New Bedford or New York on their ways to California, but I have been unable to find anything showing entry for any of them, nor have I been able to find any passport example, the manifest from the ship m grandfather came on clearly lists the cousin he travelled with and the older brother that cousin was coming to visit. Nowhere is my grandfather's name listed, however. All four brothers left before turning 18, which I've learned was a common practice to avoid military service. Just this year, the granddaughter (my second cousin) of the oldest brother found some interesting paperwork she shared with me. The oldest brother applied for a Portuguese passport AFTER he began the process of applying for American citizenship! He did this just as my grandfather (the youngest male of the family) was about to come from Faial in 1905, a trip the oldest brother paid for. On one form, he stated his entry date as having been in March 1885. Another piece of paper was a declaration from Portugal that this brother had been born in Portugal and was a subject of the king. On the back is a written notation that this paperwork was requested by and given to a younger brother who had remained in Faial. That brother's signature appears in receipt of the paperwork. I was surprised to see these two pieces of paper. It seems that paperwork could catch up with immigrants after the fact. As others have pointed out, the U.S. wasn't so fussy about admitting immigrants from Europe, especially sturdy workers from southern European countries who could build the labor force in the factories sprouting up as the U.S. took over the position away from Britain as number one in industrial output. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Home Sales
I second Nancy Jean's response and add that records don't always tell the
whole story. Some emigrants simply left, hoping to return, and family
members--sometimes even complete strangers--used the abandoned properties
as their own, if only to work the land. After a time, the "squatters" may
file paperwork claiming ownership by virtue of their possession for a
certain number of years.
Another issue is informal, unrecorded agreements made between emigrants and
remaining residents, for which there are no records, only word-of-mouth
stories. One more is the issue of power of attorney ("procurador") that
emigrants sometimes signed to designate someone to take care of the
property in their absence. In Portugal, the procurador has absolute
authority to do anything. Nancy Jean and I have heard many stories of
emigrants or their adult children returning many years later to find
properties sold from under them, and there is nothing they can do because
of the attorney agreement.(In contrast, the power-of attorney agreement in
the U.S. usually specifies exactly what the designee may and may not
handle, may and may not do.)
Thus, the process of tracing ownership can take a lo-o-o-ong time, and
there's no guarantee the tracing will turn up completely accurate
information. What matters, ultimately, is how the property is registered at
the concelho--and even that information may be outdated because many
Azoreans traditionally do not file documents so they can avoid paying fees
and higher taxes.
Best advice: work with a local who knows the ropes.
Tomás
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: rental
Somme rental companies have websites you can use. Bear in mind most of these sites will use euros in their pricing. If you know any Portuguese, there are a couple of sites entirely in Portuguese, though several have English pages. One English-language, all islands rental company we have used many times is Ilha Verde: http://www.ilhaverde.com/en/ You can also look on Azores.com's rental page: http://www.azores.com/car On Faial itself: http://www.autoturisticafaialense.com/ You can easily find rental companies through an Internet search using the terms "rental car" and "Faial" or "Azores." Important to remember: On most islands, rental car inventory is limited year-round and in many cases cars are shipped in for the summer season, either from San Miguel or the continent, according to projected demand. You must set up a reservation NOW if you want to have a car when you arrive. May and June usually have good availability, but July is difficult and August nearly impossible without an advanced reservation. On Pico, I know locals who rent out their cars, and in August they are the only option for visitors who have not already reserved by early June. Tomas Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores?hl=en.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Azores property
Having property in the Azores, which involved considerable effort to ensure clear title and subsequent purchases of adjoining lands, I cannot imagine any way of tracing ownership from the U.S. without some contact there. You'd need to find the map in the concelho (the equivalent of a county in the U.S.) office to identify the exact pieces of property involved. Then you look to see who is officially listed as the owner and determine whether that person is current on the property taxes. You also have to ask around. Neighbors know who owns what--or they may think they do. The neighbors may confirm what is listed officially. The difficulty in tracing ownership results from several factors, all of which originate in "the old days" of great poverty: 1. Many Azoreans are reluctant to do anything officially because it means paying fees. An ownership change could trigger a reassessment. 2. Property is often passed to others without legal documentation, simply someone's word of it. Again, this unofficial bequeathing was a way to avoid fees and taxes. 3. Occupancy can lead to ownership. After ten years, an occupant can claim ownership by filing a document through a notary public. Three unrelated witnesses attest that the person has held the property for at least the minimum number of years. This legal maneuver is used to correct official listings that would otherwise be impossible to trace through legal documents. Because of earthquakes, fires, and volcanic eruptions, many old records no longer exist. 4. In many areas of the Azores it is common to own several parcels of land in various places. Higher elevations are good for pastures, mid-level for grains and vegetables, lower or sea-level for other things. On Pico, for example, all vineyards are low, using rock walls for protection from the wind. A farmer or rancher could easily acquire several different parcels and spend days moving up and down the slopes tending to different crops or animals. Thus, adjoining parcels may have completely unrelated ownerships. 5. Families often split parcels so that the widow and all adult children got a piece of property. Later, some might sell their parcels while others kept theirs. The result is a crazy quilt of ownerships. Further complicating matters is that many immigrants left their properties behind, hoping to return. Others still on the island used unoccupied land and held an informal ownership without every having gone through any legal process. Some immigrants signed power of attorney documents as protections, but such a document in Portugal gives the designated representative complete control over the property. Some immigrants returned to find their land had been sold off and the money kept by the representatives. Some non-residents have bought properties based on ownerships they were told were accurate only to find themselves in court being sued by some distant relative of a deceased previous owner who claimed an inheritance of the land. In many cases, courts side with "family" members against non-resident buyers. Anyone thinking of buying property in the Azores must go through the effort to ensure the title is clear. In the case of our property, a local property owner who has renovated several buildings and owns many pieces of land spent nearly a year checking--in her spare time--who owned what. She talked with everyone surrounding the property and got the full picture. Despite her efforts, we discovered that one terrace in the middle of four did NOT belong to the property but to someone in another town, distantly related to another previous owner. We bought that piece to have one solid piece. Then we discovered two additional terraces--one of the other side of the footpath--was also understood to be associated with the main property. After several months and diligent work by a notary, everything got straightened out legally and registered accurately with the concelho. Tomás Leal On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 10:58:06 AM UTC-7, Marie wrote: > > This is a bit off topic; but I was wondering if there is any way to > determine who now owns a certain piece of property from here in the > US that used to belong to my great-grandfather in Sao Jorge, OR must this > be done in person in the actual concelho or freguesia. Who would I contact > ?? > > Thanks for any help > > Marie > > Sao Jorge: Borba, de Borba, Carvalho, Silveira Carvalho > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese English dictionary
My experience in the Azores is that Spanish may be of some usefulness in getting your ideas across but of little usefulness to you in understanding what Azoreans are saying. European Portuguese is an older language than modern Spanish. Though vocabulary is similar, spellings and pronunciations are quite different. Also, the ways of addressing others, especially strangers, can be significantly different. After studying European Portuguese for a few years, I find that I do understand a lot of Spanish I hear and can pick up most of what I read. On the continent, your Spanish might be more useful because many residents would be more familiar with hearing Spanish. In the Azores, though, this is less likely. Further, the local accents of the islands are a challenge. Remember that each island developed pretty much on its own for a few hundred years. The movement between islands was limited until only the last 40 to 50 years. On some islands, the same can be said of the villages. I have been to all nine islands and I have to adjust my ear and be careful with my pronunciation whenever I move from island to island, with the exception of Pico and Faial, which because of proximity have a longer history of traffic between the two islands. Another issue is levels of education--which works both in your favor and against you. Up through the Salazar years, Portuguese children had only about four years of education. They learned a lot of Portuguese history and arithmetic and were drilled in verb conjugation. After the revolution of 1974, public education started to expand to what it is elsewhere but the expansion didn't come immediately to the Azores. Thus, Azoreans who went to school before, say, 1980, have much less education and have no foreign language learning, unlike today when most students learn a second language (usually English) from early years through high school. Because the economic importance of tourism in the Azores is recognized there, many young people learn French and German in addition to English--better jobs exist for those who speak more languages. With younger people, especially those in service jobs, you will probably get by in English and your Spanish will be useful. With most older adults, you'll find several have lived some years in North America, following volcanic eruptions and earthquakes that disrupted everyday life and the economy. These adults usually learned and retain some English. Adults who did not emigrate for a time will speak only Portuguese, often an "old-fashioned" kind that takes some getting used to. As for online dictionaries, I use http://pt.bab.la/dicionario/ingles-portugues/ frequently. It's good for giving examples of sentences that help me figure out the nuance of a word. However, I cannot imagine any usefulness in face-to-face instances, only in reading and writing situations. It seems that smartphones have developed a reliance on apps to the exclusion of all else. Though signals are generally good in the Azores, there are patches with limited or in-and-out connections. When travelling, I always use a book, and there are several small phrase books good for travellers. In the U.S., you must look carefully, however, and pick a book that is based on European and not Brazilian Portuguese. The differences are similar to British and American English; spellings are similar and pronunciations are different but often understandable. However, words don't always mean the same thing in both places. A Brazilian word for something may not be understood at all in Europe, though the reverse is less often the case. In the Azores, you will also encounter local vocabulary you will not find in any dictionary, though this is probably not a problem with anyone in a service job. One last note: I find that women are much easier to work with linguistically than men. My experiences all show that women are more likely to work with me to create understanding on both sides and men, especially older men, much less so. Even with those who lived in North America for a time, the women are more likely to have some fluency in English while many of the men might understand a few things but cannot speak in English. Women often have to interact more with others as part of getting things done while men often end up in labor jobs that rely little on language. Tomás On Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:09:33 AM UTC-7, Lorraine wrote: > > *There are several Portuguese/English dictionaries online. Can anyone > recommend a good one (easy to use) that will help me before and during my > trip to the Azores in May? I can speak some Spanish. Will that help me be > understood in Portuguese? Thanks again.* > > *Lorraine* > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join th
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Looking for English speaking taxi driver in Horta, Faial
I want to second Cheri's response. Every time I'm in Horta and need a taxi--usually between the airport and the center of town--the driver is more often bilingual, especially younger drivers. Just about everyone under 30 has studied English in school and speaks English to a passable level of fluency. Those who interact with tourists regularly usually speak sufficient English for basic transactions to go smoothly. Many of the taxi drivers in Horta have in fact lived in North America for a time. Even though we speak Portuguese well enough to carry on all transactions in that language, most of the drivers pick up we're really from somewhere else and switch to English. I've even answered in Portuguese a driver's question given in English, yet the driver stayed with English. Simply put, the taxi drivers want to make money driving their cabs. They will work with tourists to make things happen, one way or another. In general, we find that locals who do speak English, especially those under 30) prefer to use English with visitors as a way of practicing their language skills. I've told clerks in stores I want to use Portuguese because I am in Portugal and must practice my Portuguese and most of them respond entirely in English. The younger the clerk, the more likely the person is bilingual and eager to use English. A little background: There is a general acknowledgement that Portuguese is a difficult language. I repeatedly get compliments on my attempts and insistence to use the language. Some time ago, a consensus formed that to be full member of the world community the Portuguese would need to learn English and the school system made English a priority. To the younger half of the population, English is seen as the avenue to the future, as a way out of a lower economic status toward a better one. Every college-educated person knows English, partly because of the possibility of having to leave Portugal to earn a living. Every high school student thinking of going to college knows English, even those living in small villages. Tomás Leal On Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:58:44 PM UTC-7, PatGirard wrote: > > I will be arriving on a transatlantic cruise in Horta on May 8th. I'll be > there only one day. I'd like to know if anyone knows of a English speaking > taxi driver that would take me to Feteira. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores?hl=en.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for travel in the Azores
On Sunday, April 7, 2013 8:32:25 AM UTC-7, nan wrote: > > Question about ATM and Credit Cards. Thank you. But does it need to have > a chip? My cards just have a magnetic strip (no chip). I hear a card with > a chip is needed throughout Europe. Nancy > > > Oops. Let me clarify my first sentence: My card is the standard American version with only a magnetic stripe, no chip. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores?hl=en.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Question about Chips in ATM and Bank Cards for travel in the Azores
My Bank of the West card has always worked in every ATM in the Azores. I use it to get cash in euros (the daily maximum is 200 euros, regardless of any higher limit your bank might set). It's always been accepted as a credit card when I needed it, though in grocery stores there can be some confusion because "everybody" uses debit cards rather than credit cards. My card is actually a debit card, but I have to treat it as a credit card in such a situation. Before you go, it's always a good idea to notify your bank or credit card company you will be going to Portugal and using your card. Because I go for twelve weeks (I know, lucky me!) I don't want my bank wondering why my card is being used for so long outside the U.S. Fortunately, Portugal is a low-incident of fraud country so there's rarely any problem. In contrast, Brazil is high in fraud and I twice had to call my bank from Rio to question because my card didn't work. The problem was cleared up within five minutes, and I was fine until a few days later because someone at the bank hadn't noted I would be in Brazil for a few weeks. On the second call, everything was fine the rest of the trip. Tomás Leal -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores?hl=en.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Rose Andrade Trombus/Trombas - Fayal
Whew! So much wonderful information!! Yes, I show the second wife of Jose Abreu to be Minnie Andrade. Unfortunately, Andrade is a very common name in the Fremont area. I had been told by my father's first cousin--also a first cousin to Jose Abrea and who knew him, Rose Trambas, and Minnie Andrade--that there was an Andrade in the neighborhood that had some distant relationship with me. Unfortunately, soon after I got started on tracing the family tree, this cousin died. Her husband, however, knew many of these people though his genealogical knowledge was sketchy. He died earlier this year (at 98). His children, my second cousins, know some details and I will contact them for more. They know Andrades, and one cousin still lives nearby Fremont and may be helpful. BTW, I live only about 25 minutes away from Fremont, so I can get down there and check around. I'm so glad you were able to provide so many dates that I can use to fill in more blanks on my tree! I'll keep digging away to see what else I can find. Tomas Leal -- -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Rose Andrade Trombus/Trombas - Fayal
I may have some connection by marriage with Rose Trambas (the spelling I have). Her huband, Jose Abreu, may be the nephew of my grandfather, Joao Silveira Leal. Jose Abreu settled in the Mission San Jose area of Fremont. In the late 1920s, my grandmother was very ill and my father and his slightly older sister went to live with "Uncle Joe" (even though he was actually a first cousin) and Aunt Rose for a time. I have a few photographs of Joe and Rose leaving for their honeymoon and some other photos of family gatherings in Fremont, though I don't know everyone in these photos, but in one photo a woman standing next to Jose Abreu looks very much like the woman in the photos of Jose and Rose leaving for their honeymoon. I also have a copy of Jose Abreu's passport photo with his signature on it but no date. I don't have life dates for Jose Abreu, but 1897 could be correct, as the next child in the family, Manuel, was born in 1900. Manuel I knew as a child but never Jose for some reason.They were born in Flamengos, Fayal, and emigrated, I assume, in their late teens, probably under the sponsorship of my grandfather's oldest brother Antonio (1869-1939), who was the first of the Leals to come to California In this particular case, Rose Trambas Abreu died and Jose remarried later to Minnie Andrade. Again, I have no life dates for any of them,nor marriage dates. It would be wonderful if these photos are of the Rose Trambas you're looking for. Unfortunately, the Azoreans seemed limited on the number of names they used with their children, so there are so many duplicates. If you think my Jose Abreau is the one who married your Rose Trambas, I'd be happy to send you electronic copies of the photos I have. Also, I have a large pdf file of the Leal family tree, broken down and expanded according to my grandfather's and his sibilings' branches.Unfortunately, no one in my family who would have had any first-hand acquaintance with Jose or Rose is still alive. I have already met with Antonio's daughter, Marie Leal Pine, her husband, Vincent Pine, and their four children (one of whom went to school for a time with another member of this list, Susan Vargas Murphy), trying to gather as much information as they had but though they had some photos for me they had no dates. Even with such sketchy information, I'm happy to work with you on filling in whatever blanks--assuming my Jose Abreu is the person married to your Rose Trambas. Tomas Leal -- -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: ATMs in the Azores
For the past three years, I have stayed in the Azores for 12 weeks in the summer and used my debit card from my U.S. to withdraw euros. I've never had a problem. My bank does charge a "foreign transaction fee" and an "interbank charge" on these transactions, which work out to about $5-6 per transaction withdrawing 200 euros.These fees are still less than and currency exchange or local bank would charge to change dollars. There is a daily maximum amount you may withdraw regardless of what your bank allows in the U.S. That maximum is 200 euros, and I always go the limit. That said, my partner had trouble using a Bank of America debit card, which the bank was not able to correct while we were there. Upon our return, the bank issued a new card and there wasn't a problem on the next trip. Yes, European cards have smart chips in them, which are more secure than the magnetic strip that American banks refuse to give up. The truth is American banks know the superiority of the smart chip cards but refuse to invest in a changeover. Unfortunately, it seems you will not know whether your card will or will not work until you are there. I recommend calling your bank to inform of your intended use in Portugal. The MultiBanco machines are secure, so that is not a worry. In contrast, I had repeated trouble using my debit card in Brazil because of a greater incidence of card theft and fraud. A call to my bank cleared up with problem and the system cleared my card within 15 minutes. Whenever travelling out of the country, it's good to notify your bank ahead of time, giving the dates you will be in particular countries. The same holds for any credit card you choose to use. Different card issuers have different security thresholds at which an account may be stopped. No issuer will reveal its threshold, of course. A call ahead of time prevents this problem. Tomas Leal -- -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Family from Flamengos, Faial.
Diane George wrote: "I had my nephew tested and his Haplogroup is J2, and J-M172 (Shorthand). The most distant paternal ancestor is Joao Inacio da Silva. The baptismal certificate for his son, Jose Ignacio Silva, shows that Joao was from Horta Matriz, Faial, with unknown parents, but we have no other information about him. His wife was Clara Florinda, daughter of Francisco Ignacio da Costa and Maria Clara, from Flamengos, Faial." - - - My paternal grandfather was born in Flamengos in 1888. There are da Costas on his mother's side (my great-grandmother), and I'm wondering whether there is any connection. My grandfather's father is José Silveira Leal; his mother is Francisca Emília da Costa. His mother's parents are Manuel José da Costa and Francisca Ignácia do Coração de Jesus. Her paternal grandparents are António José da Costa and Victoria Luisa. By any chance do any of these names appear as related to any of the da Costas in your family? Her maternal grandparents are Silvestre de Vargas and Teresa Inácia Coração Jesus. In case anyone else has family from Flamengos, the names on my grandfather's father side are: Parents António Silveira Leal and Maria Felicia Rosa. Paternal grandparents are ? Silveira Leal and Joanna Rosa. Maternal grandparents are José(?) Leal Rosa and Elenna Rosa. Tomás Leal -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Y-DNA roll call
My haplogroup is R1b1b2, which is also M269. My paternal grandfather was born in Flamengos, Faial on September 17, 1888. His father was Antonio Silveira Leal, born June 19, 1825. His father was also Silveira Leal, though I don't have his first name or life dates. I was able to get these names from my grandfather's baptism registration, which lists his parents' names and their parents' names. Tomas Leal -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Granfather's birthplace in Faial
The library in Horta has the various parish records going far back. I have copies of baptism certificates of my grandfather's oldest brother who was born in 1869. The records are stored by parish, then by year and by date. Tomás Leal -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese citizenship
My information on gaining citizenship through a grandparent originally came from a government brochure and was confirmed a couple of months ago in a conversation I had with the outgoing Consul General in San Francisco. The Vice-Consul added that she could help in arranging for the exam. Over the past several years, EU countries have been bringing their laws into alignment. The standard is one must claim citizenship through a parent. Some countries still allow a claim through a grandparent, but not as easily as once upon a time. When I claimed Irish citizenship and got the passport, I did so in 1987--six months before Ireland changed its laws to eliminate the grandparent connection. Apparently there is some pressure on countries to follow suit. In Portugal, for example, Brazilians are having a much more difficult time securing Portuguese citizenship, and I heard rumblings from others born in former colonies such as Angola. One reason seems to be that many applicants are poorer and are suspected of trying to get into the social programs. Whether this development will affect me remains to be seen. Given I made a contact in the consulate in San Francisco, I may be OK. Tomas -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship
In response to some of the questions and statements regarding Portuguese citizenship: Reason for wanting citizenship: My reason is purely sentimental, a greater connection with my Azorean grandfather and the family there. In fact, I already possess Irish citizenship and passport via my mother's father, so I have EU status. The U.S. "ignores" other citizenships rather than accepts them. To the U.S., a citizen is a citizen and that's that. Because of the relationship with Israel and that country's granting of citizenship to anyone Jewish, the U.S. has ignored the dual-citizenship issue. As far as the U.S. is concerned, I am only an American citizen. How I found what I needed: I knew my grandfather's village--Flamengos, Faial--and thus knew the parish. All parish records from those years are stored in the new library in Horta. All I had to do was look up his baptism record by the date. He was baptized a few days after his birth, so I easily found the original document. Because I still have a way to go with citizenship, I have only a photocopy for my own interest, not an official copy. When I need that, I will get it. Because of the strong position of the Catholic Church in Portugal, a baptismal record counts as a birth certificate. In fact, there is no birth certificate for most people of that time. When getting Irish citizenship, I used a certified copy of that grandfather's baptism certificate, and that was all that was needed to prove Irish birth. Because my grandparents immigrated (separately) to the U.S., they married in San Francisco, where my mother was born and married and where I was born. The paperwork proving my connection was easily obtained--took about five minutes. My Azorean grandfather also immigrated to San Francisco, where he married my grandmother. My father was also born here. Thus, once I have the Portuguese document, I will easily have everything I need to prove my connection. "Benefits" of EU citizenship: Having EU citizenship allows me to live and work within the EU. However, it does NOT make available all the benefits. I have never paid into any European health plan; thus, I cannot get national health insurance anywhere in the EU. For that, I must be employed and pay the taxes. In 2010, I had a medical emergency and had to pay completely out of pocket. Fortunately, medical care in the EU is nothing close to what is in the U.S. Treatment that would easily have cost over $1,000 cost me about $175. My own medical insurance reimbursed my prescription costs less my co-pay, and the ER cost was less than my co- pay, so I got nothing. An additional reason for pursuing Portuguese citizenship is there are some work possibilities for me there. Should something come through, I would go into the tax system and thus contribute to the various programs such as health care. I could then, possibly, get some kind of coverage. Tomas -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese citizenship
My understanding--which was confirmed when I met recently with the Portuguese Consul General in San Francisco--is you must meet four requirements: 1 - Have a grandparent born in Portugal (which means, of course, proof of the person's birth and your connection) 2 - No criminal record 3 - Three years' residency in Portugal 4 - Passing a Portuguese language exam For me, only the last one remains, so I'm working on my Portuguese. I have the residency, via an affidavit by the president of the village in Pico where I have a home and spend "significant portion of the year" each year. Tomás Leal -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ellis Island records
I do know about other ports of entry and that "Ellis Island" doesn't always mean that particular point of entry. My grandfather himself told me he had entered through Ellis Island. He also took the train from New York to Oakland with a ticket his brother Antonio had already paid for. Both the ship passage and the train ticket were paid in advance by Antonio, who had already settled in what is now Fremont CA. In fact, my grandfather met this brother for the first time when he arrived in Oakland, as the brother had left shortly before my grandfather's birth. My grandfather's buddy accompanied him on the train to Oakland and was met by his older brother, who lived in San Leandro. Alas, anyone else who could confirm the my grandfather's version of the story is now dead (except, of course, for me!). -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Ellis Island records
I know my grandfather came to the U.S. through Ellis Island in 1905, and I know he travelled from Faial with a boyhood buddy. In scouring the Ellis Island records, I found the ship manifest but only the buddy's name, not my grandfather's name. I know I have the correct ship manifest because each passenger's U.S. destination shows on the manifest and this information matches for my grandfather's friend. I went through the manifest carefully, aware that spellings could be off because of misunderstandings between immigrants and immigration or ship officials who spoke only English. I'm also aware that some immigrants were given "American names" when they entered, often against their will or without their knowledge. None of these issues explain the absence of my grandfather's name on the manifest. Does anyone know other ways I might be able to track down an accurate listing of my grandfather's entry? -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
