RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Just happened to have this on file. Just one way I have found Filho written. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheri Mello Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 7:52 PM To: Azores Genealogy Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves Courtney L, Yes, you have to train your eye. The names are capitalized and never written lower case. For the time period you are researching, you will want to get all the siblings as well. It will help build your tree and connect to other researchers and it will help train your eye. If you are searching the 1880s, you will notice all the names about 1/4 or 1/3 of the way through the document. They will be preceded with the words filho legitimo or filha legitima. The thing with filho legitimo or filha legitima, is letter height. f,l,h in filho/a and the l,g,t in legitimo/a all stick up or down below the other letters. Many times they are quite slanted and somewhat flourishy (penmanship style of the period). This is kind of hard to explain in an email. When I get my scanner up, I'll send an image to this list of what I am trying to describe. When you get back to the middle of the 1800s, the names are right on the top. Then you have to wade through for the date. By then, you'll be real good at names. Good luck, Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. attachment: Portuguese_Paleography_F_filho_de_Francisca_de_Machado.jpg
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Just to remember that there is one more resorce left: some native speakers willing to nelp... BUT just remember that they will help gladly and they are not willing to work for you ;) Eliseu Pacheco da Silva No dia 02/09/2013, às 00:43, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com escreveu: All romance languages have the adjective after the noun. The red flower becomes the flower red. The legitimate son becomes the son legitimate. In Spanish, I think it's hijo legítimo. In Portuguese, it's filho legitimo. You just change a couple of words around. There's a whole guide to picking apart the records. My little Google Shortener says I posted them 8 days ago and only 7 or 8 people looked at them. I know that out of the 1100 people on this list, the vast majority are NOT fluent and DON'T read Portuguese. But we learn to bumble our way through the records and read them. And many people learned how to read through this list or through classes taught by me, Rosemarie, Doug, and Joao Ventura, the archivist. Rosemarie, Doug, and I are NOT 100% Portuguese, but we learned. And I can completely blow away the native speakers at my Portuguese hall when I pull up the CCA site and start translating a record for them! Granted, I have a bit of an advantage being a former teacher who got to read a lot of bad penmanship! But with perserverance, it can be done. So for those who missed the links to reading the records, here they are again: goo.gl/dvL63b goo.gl/mBql3U Find your record. Pull what you can out of it. Post what you are reading and what you can't make out. Those people who do this get better responses to their posts than those who just say translate this. After some time, you will get the hang of it and will be helping others. And by-the-way, we have a number of retired people on our list who did not have a language requirement when they were in high school and they can read the records. So keep plugging away! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves/handwriting
Eileen, You have certainly come-a-long-way in just 3 years!! You are so right about everything, especially the cutting of words at the end of the line with no (-) to indicate anything! I’ll never forget my first look at a grandma Anna Machado. I THOUGHT it said Anna Machado of the villa (town) of Lobos because of the way the name was split. Come to find out her name was Anna Machado Villalobos!! It doesn’t help that some Priests don’t always capitalize a name, or at least it doesn’t look like it to me! So as you say, read carefully and keep an open mind. Jose especially can be Joze or Joseph and I have a Priest that loves to write Josepha as Jose pha so your wondering if he’s talking about a male or female!! Rosemarie From: Eileen Leite Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 8:31 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves/handwriting There have been a lot of great tips shared for deciphering the handwriting in the records, thanks! After several years I still struggle every time a priest retires and the handwriting changes. Reading a new batch of records these past few weeks, I had some trouble, and returned to my reading old records roots. These tips may be useful if you are new at this: Before you start researching online, open up a Portuguese Paleography (handwriting) guide (available at Cheri and Rosemary’s wonderful website, and also at the Familysearch Portugal wiki) and a Portuguese numbers list in separate windows to have them available for reference. (You can google ‘Portuguese Paleography’ and ‘Portuguese numbers’.) Also a list of months if you are new. When you find a record online, be sure to save it and then rename it to reflect what it is. You can go back later when your skills have improved and find things you missed the first time. I always include the date as well as the person in the file name: ‘Baptism Jose Bento Daniel’ can be confusing if there end up being 3 Jose Bento Daniels! DO NOT assume the cursive you learned in your youth applies! In too many cases it will not. Letter shapes change though time and from priest to priest. What looks like one letter may be a totally different letter. A clear (to my eye) Capital ‘Y’ was in fact a Capital ‘S’. I was looking for da Silva, and almost missed this record because I thought I saw a “Y”. Plus, Silva was abbreviated to a capital ‘S’ with a superscript ‘a’. See attached if you’re curious. Right side, on top. The one with the Y in the margin, haha. Joze da Silva e Maria do Carmo. But this wonderful priest wrote the date in numbers, not words, so I love him. Re: abbreviations: it was the texting of its time. Shortening words became an art as they saved time, ink and paper. See ‘leg’ superscript ‘o’, after filho, fourth line of the attached record. (Record on top right, it starts immediately to the right of the ‘1848’ in the margin.) It is ‘legitimo’. “Filho legitimo”. Compare letters in unknown words with shapes in recognizable words on the same page. In the attached record, ‘Antonio de Santos’ appears in the middle of the left-hand page, confirming the “Y” shape is actually a capital “S”. Looking at surrounding records can also clarify dates. I first read the year on the attached record as 1843 – except the previous page shows clearly 1847, so I looked at the date again. It is 1848. Words may be arbitrarily split in the middle or run together, in the middle of the line or at the end. See ‘Ju nho’, first line to right of margin ‘1848’, top right record, in the attached. It’s one word, ‘Junho’ (June). In this time period the record starts with the date, so you are looking for a month’s name in the first line. if you have the list of months at your elbow, you can determine it. Spelling is not always what you expect. Jose may be Joze, my husband’s name Leite is sometimes spelled Leyte. Don’t skip past a record because you are looking for Jose Leite and it says Joze Leyte. Be of good cheer and do not be discouraged! Yyour eye adjusts and your ability increases as you do it. After years of effort, I still feel extremely inept at reading the records, but have found so many of my husband’s people. I’m the German/Irish side, his people come from Sao Miguel, Azores, but I have the genealogy ‘bug’ so I do the research. And the ability has come. Part of me feels that these people want to be found, and they want you to find and remember their children. They will help you. Also, be open-minded about names! After a thousand Marias and 300 Rosas, finding a ‘Laura’ or a ‘Michaelha’ can freeze your brain for a second. Haha. Eileen Leite Leite, Rebello, de Brum; Ponta Garca, Povocoao, and Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves/handwriting
Correction: When Eileen Leite said: (available at Cheri and Rosemary’s wonderful website, and also at the Familysearch Portugal wiki) She meant Kathy Cardoza's Azores GenWeb site: goo.gl/HZoB3h Everything is there, mostly under Research Aids. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
I am stuck on my great grandfather on the Steves/Esteves side. I have tried searching the culturacores site but have had no luck since I cant read Portuguese even as much as I wish I could and my Spanish 2 I am currently taking in school isn't helping much lol. But here is all the information we have on him; Frank Machado Steves II it was Francisco Machado Esteves but once he came to the states in 1920 they changed it to a simple form of that. He arrived at Providence, Rhode Island on the boat the Roma. He was born 5/18/1898 in Angra Terceira, Portugal. To father Francisco Machado Esteves and mother Maria Rita I am not to positive of how accurate his mothers name is it was just the name I was given by my grandmother but we are not positive since Franks parents stayed in the Azores. Frank married Edna Maria Fagundes in 1931. And they had 7 kids but one died as a infant. His death date was 6/5/1978 the day after he fulfilled his promise he made to his country and his parents, his wifes is 12/18/1992. For his fathers birthdate we have as around 1870 and death as 5/9/1932 both in Sao Sebastiao. Thank you Courtney Luis -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Once you are done with Spanish 2 it will help alot. I took it over a year ago and has helped me. Below is a word list https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Portuguese_Genealogical_Word_List On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Courtney L courtneylui...@yahoo.com wrote: I am stuck on my great grandfather on the Steves/Esteves side. I have tried searching the culturacores site but have had no luck since I cant read Portuguese even as much as I wish I could and my Spanish 2 I am currently taking in school isn't helping much lol. But here is all the information we have on him; Frank Machado Steves II it was Francisco Machado Esteves but once he came to the states in 1920 they changed it to a simple form of that. He arrived at Providence, Rhode Island on the boat the Roma. He was born 5/18/1898 in Angra Terceira, Portugal. To father Francisco Machado Esteves and mother Maria Rita I am not to positive of how accurate his mothers name is it was just the name I was given by my grandmother but we are not positive since Franks parents stayed in the Azores. Frank married Edna Maria Fagundes in 1931. And they had 7 kids but one died as a infant. His death date was 6/5/1978 the day after he fulfilled his promise he made to his country and his parents, his wifes is 12/18/1992. For his fathers birthdate we have as around 1870 and death as 5/9/1932 both in Sao Sebastiao. Thank you Courtney Luis -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Yeah I still have a long way to finish Spanish school just started lol. But in the records where approximately are the names located because I try to look for them and never can see them I guess I don't have that genealogical eye yet. Thank you Courtney Luis -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Courtney L, Yes, you have to train your eye. The names are capitalized and never written lower case. For the time period you are researching, you will want to get all the siblings as well. It will help build your tree and connect to other researchers and it will help train your eye. If you are searching the 1880s, you will notice all the names about 1/4 or 1/3 of the way through the document. They will be preceded with the words filho legitimo or filha legitima. The thing with filho legitimo or filha legitima, is letter height. f,l,h in filho/a and the l,g,t in legitimo/a all stick up or down below the other letters. Many times they are quite slanted and somewhat flourishy (penmanship style of the period). This is kind of hard to explain in an email. When I get my scanner up, I'll send an image to this list of what I am trying to describe. When you get back to the middle of the 1800s, the names are right on the top. Then you have to wade through for the date. By then, you'll be real good at names. Good luck, Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Thank you I think I understand what youre saying I will sift through the birth records tonight and see if I can find anything Im still trying to get use to the site and different style of writing. Thank you Courtney Luis -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Courtney L, I've done a lot of work with Shirley Allegre (of this list - her computer is offline for another week or so). Since Shirley and I shared so many lines, we did a lot together. She's in northern CA and I'm in southern CA. We both ordered the film and went to work at it, collecting whole families (they are intermarried, so might as well). Every time we got a new priest or scribe, we moaned. There was one in Ponta Garca that we nicknamed the Chinese priest. His writing style was very square and boxy, like what you would see with Chinese letters. Shirley would get mad at him and threatened to go to the Azores and dig him up and make him rewrite the records! But we got used to him. And then we got a different one! Ugh! He was so much worse than the first. But after we got done whining and moaning about his penmanship (or lack thereof), we got used to him too. Keep on trying. You'll start to see the names jump out after awhile. Then you'll start to see the months. The years (numbers) will be last because they are all long hand. But with time, they come along too. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
Hi Courtney,I've been so busy lately with other research that I didn't mention to you that I found we are distantly related by the ESTEVES name. So when will you get your Esteves relatives tested with the Family Finder test? It would be fun to see if we both have any Esteves DNA now.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves From: Courtney L courtneylui...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, September 01, 2013 3:34 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com I am stuck on my great grandfather on the Steves/Esteves side. I have tried searching the culturacores site but have had no luck since I cant read Portuguese even as much as I wish I could and my Spanish 2 I am currently taking in school isn't helping much lol. But here is all the information we have on him; Frank Machado Steves II it was Francisco Machado Esteves but once he came to the states in 1920 they changed it to a simple form of that. He arrived at Providence, Rhode Island on the boat the Roma. He was born 5/18/1898 in Angra Terceira, Portugal. To father Francisco Machado Esteves and mother Maria RitaI am not to positive of how accurate his mothers name is it was just the name I was given by my grandmother but we are not positive since Franks parents stayed in the Azores. Frank married Edna Maria Fagundes in 1931. And they had 7 kids but one died as a infant. His death date was 6/5/1978 the day after he fulfilled his promise he made to his country and his parents, his wifes is 12/18/1992. For his fathers birthdate we have as around 1870 and death as 5/9/1932 both in Sao Sebastiao.Thank you Courtney Luis -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves
I thought I would add my experience. I learned Portuguese at the age of 40.
I still lack the confidence to converse and lack the opportunity but I can
read it well. That is, newspapers, Internet articles.
The written documents were another thing! Just jump in, as has been
mentioned. Look for names. Pretty soon you will get the format for the
years you are looking at. Other words will jump out at you and you will
learn their meanings. Padrinho for example--godfather. These will help you
find your place in the document. Don't think because you aren't fluent you
can't do it. Even people who can read modern Portuguese articles struggle
with those documents.
Do not be discouraged! It's not easy at first but it is SO rewarding!
Mary Bordi
On Sunday, September 1, 2013, Courtney L wrote:
Thank you I think I understand what youre saying I will sift through the
birth records tonight and see if I can find anything Im still trying to get
use to the site and different style of writing.
Thank you
Courtney Luis
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves genealogy
Im looking for more information on the family of Francisco Machado Esteves married to Maria Rita. Francisco is from Sao Sabastiao other than that I know nothing else. Thank you Courtney Luis -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves genealogy
Hi Courtney,I'm related to all the Esteves families on Terceira, as far as I know.Contact me at this email:terce...@dholmes.comDoug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Esteves/Steves genealogy From: Courtney L courtneylui...@yahoo.com Date: Mon, August 05, 2013 6:47 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com Im looking for more information on the family of Francisco Machado Esteves married to Maria Rita. Francisco is from Sao Sabastiao other than that I know nothing else.Thank you Courtney Luis -- -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
