Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[bsei2816]

Sorry but I don't believe it gives the location of their marriage. This 
record does confirm the native locations for the parents we saw in 
Marcionilia's marriage.

Bill Seidler

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Cheri Mello]

I am on my cell and can't see the record, but if you see the words "donde
receibam" or something like that, it translates to "where received" meaning
where they married.

On Jan 30, 2018 1:51 PM, "Sean Andrade"  wrote:

> Thanks for all the help! I can't imagine the odds of someone from the
> mainland and someone else from Brazil having a child in Rabo de Peixe,
> especially back then.
>
> I found Marcionila's birth record on the bottom left: http://culturacores.
> azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-
> 1851-1857/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1851-1857_item1/P164.html
>
> I see that it mentions Brazil, but does it mention where the parents were
> married?
>
> On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 4:32:27 PM UTC-8, "E" Sharp wrote:
>>
>> ​Bill,
>>
>> Mainland Portugal records are fairly easy to research.  Same site
>> tombo.pt  Just need to search Portugal not Azores.
>>
>> "E"​
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Sean Andrade]

Thanks for all the help! I can't imagine the odds of someone from the 
mainland and someone else from Brazil having a child in Rabo de Peixe, 
especially back then.

I found Marcionila's birth record on the bottom 
left: 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1851-1857/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1851-1857_item1/P164.html

I see that it mentions Brazil, but does it mention where the parents were 
married?

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 4:32:27 PM UTC-8, "E" Sharp wrote:
>
> ​Bill,
>
> Mainland Portugal records are fairly easy to research.  Same site tombo.pt  
> Just need to search Portugal not Azores.  
>
> "E"​
>
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

["E" Sharp]

​Bill,

Mainland Portugal records are fairly easy to research.  Same site tombo.pt
Just need to search Portugal not Azores.

"E"​

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[bsei2816]

 

I'm not sure if I have all of this correct, but it seems the groom and his 
parents, as well as the bride, are from Rabo de Peixe.  The bride's father 
is from continental Portugal and her mother is from Brazil.  I am not 
familiar with these places but I did find them on google maps.

Groom: José Gonçalves da Silva, 51 years old, single, proprietor, 
legitimate son of Daniel Gonçalves and Maria Leocádia, native, baptized, 
and resident of this freguesia

Bride: Dona Marcionila Gomes da Silva, 20 years old, single, domestic 
service, with paternal consent, native and baptized in this same freguesia, 
 legitimate daughter of Domingos Gomes Fernandes, native of the place of 
Meixide, conselho de Chaves, Bispado de Braga and of Dona Rosa Gomes da 
Silva, native of the city of Goiana, diocese of Olinda, province of 
Pernambuco.

I have never researched records on the continent or in Brazil.

Bill Seidler


On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-8, Sean Andrade wrote:
>
> Thanks! In her parents marriage record that you found can you make out 
> their parents names and are they all from Rabo de Peixe?
>
> On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 7:14:27 PM UTC-8, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> I've seen that from time to time. They leave the Azores, try out Brazil 
>> or America, and go back to the Azores.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:04 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry...my tree is still a work not in as much progress as it should 
>>> be.  Thanks...I thought Ruth would probably be a sister of Clotilde.
>>>
>>> I noticed in the 1899 marriage record that although Clotilde was born in 
>>> Brazil, her parents were native of Rabo de Peixe.  I found their marriage 
>>> here (Right side)
>>>
>>>
>>> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879_item1/P133.html*
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>> They must have moved to Brazil shortly after marrying and then returned 
>>> to Rabo de Peixe later with at least two kids.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Seidler
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>>
>>
>>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Sean Andrade]

Thanks! In her parents marriage record that you found can you make out 
their parents names and are they all from Rabo de Peixe?

On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 7:14:27 PM UTC-8, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> I've seen that from time to time. They leave the Azores, try out Brazil or 
> America, and go back to the Azores.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:04 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Sorry...my tree is still a work not in as much progress as it should be.  
>> Thanks...I thought Ruth would probably be a sister of Clotilde.
>>
>> I noticed in the 1899 marriage record that although Clotilde was born in 
>> Brazil, her parents were native of Rabo de Peixe.  I found their marriage 
>> here (Right side)
>>
>>
>> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879_item1/P133.html*
>>  
>> 
>>
>> They must have moved to Brazil shortly after marrying and then returned 
>> to Rabo de Peixe later with at least two kids.
>>
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> -- 
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Cheri Mello]

I've seen that from time to time. They leave the Azores, try out Brazil or
America, and go back to the Azores.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:04 PM,  wrote:

> Sorry...my tree is still a work not in as much progress as it should be.
> Thanks...I thought Ruth would probably be a sister of Clotilde.
>
> I noticed in the 1899 marriage record that although Clotilde was born in
> Brazil, her parents were native of Rabo de Peixe.  I found their marriage
> here (Right side)
>
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879_item1/P133.html*
> 
>
> They must have moved to Brazil shortly after marrying and then returned to
> Rabo de Peixe later with at least two kids.
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> --
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[bsei2816]

Sorry...my tree is still a work not in as much progress as it should be.  
Thanks...I thought Ruth would probably be a sister of Clotilde.

I noticed in the 1899 marriage record that although Clotilde was born in 
Brazil, her parents were native of Rabo de Peixe.  I found their marriage 
here (Right side)

*http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1870-1879_item1/P133.html*
 


They must have moved to Brazil shortly after marrying and then returned to 
Rabo de Peixe later with at least two kids.


Bill Seidler

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Sean Andrade]

According to my relative Ruth was his sister in law, Clotilde's sister.

On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 1:58:11 PM UTC-8, Sean Andrade wrote:
>
> Thanks for the information!
>
> I have a relative that has some oral history on that side of the family 
> and the name Ruth rings a bell, but I can't imagine it being the same one. 
> I will follow up with her to see if she may know anything.
>
> Do you happen to have a family tree that you could share with me? I can 
> email you in private if you don't mind.
>
> Thanks!
> Sean
>
> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 5:46:14 PM UTC-8, bsei...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>
>> Sean,
>>
>> I found another record that may interest you.
>>
>> Here is the baptism of Manuel Pacheco de Mello, the father of your Maria 
>> and the groom in the marriage on my last post.  Manuel’s age and parents 
>> both fit the marriage record. (#137, bottom right continuing on next page)
>>
>>
>> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1870-1874/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1870-1874_item1/P304.html*
>>  
>> 
>>
>> Interestingly, the margin note looks like he married in Ribeira Grande to 
>> Ruth Gonçalves da Silva from Ribeirão das Lajes, Estados Unidos do Brazil 
>> (on 15 Jan 1921?).  How this Ruth might relate to Clothilde Gonçalves da 
>> Silva that he married in 1899, or what happened to Clothilde I do not know. 
>>
>> Other margin notes show Manuel became widowed (again?) on 16 Nov 1963? 
>> and died in Rabo de Peixe in 1965.
>>
>> This baptism also shows Manuel is neto paterno de Francisco Pacheco de 
>> Mello and Helena Isabel.  These are my GGG-grandparents through their 
>> son Francisco Pacheco de Mello married to Rita de Jesus.  
>>
>> Here is the baptism of my Manuel Pacheco de Mello (#40, bottom left 
>> continuing on right)  
>>
>>
>> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1875-1879/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1875-1879_item1/P17.html*
>>  
>> 
>>
>> He has the exact same name and birthplace as yours and is only 3 months 
>> younger so they were contemporaries in Rabo de Peixe.  The two Manuel 
>> Pacheco de Mello baptisms (Nov 1874 and Feb 1875) show them to be first 
>> cousins.  Both have Francisco Pacheco de Mello and Helena Isabel as 
>> paternal grandparents; one from their son Francisco (my great-great 
>> grandfather) and one from their son Manuel (your Maria’s grandfather)
>>
>> I am sorry for the length of this.  I hope I kept everything straight.
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>  
>>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Sean Andrade]

Thanks for the information!

I have a relative that has some oral history on that side of the family and 
the name Ruth rings a bell, but I can't imagine it being the same one. I 
will follow up with her to see if she may know anything.

Do you happen to have a family tree that you could share with me? I can 
email you in private if you don't mind.

Thanks!
Sean

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 5:46:14 PM UTC-8, bsei...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Sean,
>
> I found another record that may interest you.
>
> Here is the baptism of Manuel Pacheco de Mello, the father of your Maria 
> and the groom in the marriage on my last post.  Manuel’s age and parents 
> both fit the marriage record. (#137, bottom right continuing on next page)
>
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1870-1874/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1870-1874_item1/P304.html*
>  
> 
>
> Interestingly, the margin note looks like he married in Ribeira Grande to 
> Ruth Gonçalves da Silva from Ribeirão das Lajes, Estados Unidos do Brazil 
> (on 15 Jan 1921?).  How this Ruth might relate to Clothilde Gonçalves da 
> Silva that he married in 1899, or what happened to Clothilde I do not know. 
>
> Other margin notes show Manuel became widowed (again?) on 16 Nov 1963? and 
> died in Rabo de Peixe in 1965.
>
> This baptism also shows Manuel is neto paterno de Francisco Pacheco de 
> Mello and Helena Isabel.  These are my GGG-grandparents through their son 
> Francisco Pacheco de Mello married to Rita de Jesus.  
>
> Here is the baptism of my Manuel Pacheco de Mello (#40, bottom left 
> continuing on right)  
>
>
> *http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1875-1879/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1875-1879_item1/P17.html*
>  
> 
>
> He has the exact same name and birthplace as yours and is only 3 months 
> younger so they were contemporaries in Rabo de Peixe.  The two Manuel 
> Pacheco de Mello baptisms (Nov 1874 and Feb 1875) show them to be first 
> cousins.  Both have Francisco Pacheco de Mello and Helena Isabel as 
> paternal grandparents; one from their son Francisco (my great-great 
> grandfather) and one from their son Manuel (your Maria’s grandfather)
>
> I am sorry for the length of this.  I hope I kept everything straight.
>
> Bill Seidler
>  
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[bsei2816]

 

Sean,

I found another record that may interest you.

Here is the baptism of Manuel Pacheco de Mello, the father of your Maria 
and the groom in the marriage on my last post.  Manuel’s age and parents 
both fit the marriage record. (#137, bottom right continuing on next page)

*http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1870-1874/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1870-1874_item1/P304.html*
 


Interestingly, the margin note looks like he married in Ribeira Grande to 
Ruth Gonçalves da Silva from Ribeirão das Lajes, Estados Unidos do Brazil 
(on 15 Jan 1921?).  How this Ruth might relate to Clothilde Gonçalves da 
Silva that he married in 1899, or what happened to Clothilde I do not know. 

Other margin notes show Manuel became widowed (again?) on 16 Nov 1963? and 
died in Rabo de Peixe in 1965.

This baptism also shows Manuel is neto paterno de Francisco Pacheco de 
Mello and Helena Isabel.  These are my GGG-grandparents through their son 
Francisco Pacheco de Mello married to Rita de Jesus.  

Here is the baptism of my Manuel Pacheco de Mello (#40, bottom left 
continuing on right)  

*http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1875-1879/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-B-1875-1879_item1/P17.html*
 


He has the exact same name and birthplace as yours and is only 3 months 
younger so they were contemporaries in Rabo de Peixe.  The two Manuel 
Pacheco de Mello baptisms (Nov 1874 and Feb 1875) show them to be first 
cousins.  Both have Francisco Pacheco de Mello and Helena Isabel as 
paternal grandparents; one from their son Francisco (my great-great 
grandfather) and one from their son Manuel (your Maria’s grandfather)

I am sorry for the length of this.  I hope I kept everything straight.

Bill Seidler
 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Cheri Mello]

Francisca's middle name is "Helena de Jesus." She has no last name.

The Brazil list is on Rootsweb, but Rootsweb is down. We do have people who
research Brazil. Hopefully one of them will answer that part of your
question. I know Brazil's records are coming online at FamilySearch.org.
Cheri

On Jan 24, 2018 12:00 PM,  wrote:

> Francisca Helena de Jesus
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[bsei2816]

Francisca Helena de Jesus

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[Sean Andrade]

Thanks for the help!

Bill, that marriage record you sent, What is Manuels mothers name? I see 
Francisca ___ de Jesus, but can not make out the middle name. I just 
started this side of my tree so I don't have much information yet.

If I wanted to search the Brazil records is there somewhere I can look, 
something similar to the CCA but in Brazil? Is there also a group like this 
for people searching Brazil lines?

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:10:50 PM UTC-8, bsei...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I see all the margin notes as Cheri states.  
>
> The parent's marriage is here: 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1890-1899/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1890-1899_item1/P198.html
>  which 
> shows that the groom (your Maria's father) and his parents are from Rabo de 
> Peixe.  The bride (your Maria's mother) is from parish Santa Cruz dos 
> Mendes, Estado do Rio de Janeiro (Brazil).
>
> I have Pacheco de Mello ancestors from Rabo de Peixe also but I'm not sure 
> how (or if) they connect to these Manuels.  My mother's maternal 
> grandfather was Ventura Pacheco de Mello, born Rabo de Peixe in 1885 to 
> Francisco Pacheco de Mello and Rita de Jesus.  My Ventura did have a 
> brother name Manuel Pacheco de Mello but on a 1903 passaporte listing he is 
> shown as single so is not likely either Manuel (father of groom or 
> groom) on this marriage.   
>
> Bill Seidler
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Birth Record Margin Notes

[bsei2816]

I see all the margin notes as Cheri states.  

The parent's marriage is here: 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1890-1899/SMG-RG-RABODEPEIXE-C-1890-1899_item1/P198.html
 which 
shows that the groom (your Maria's father) and his parents are from Rabo de 
Peixe.  The bride (your Maria's mother) is from parish Santa Cruz dos 
Mendes, Estado do Rio de Janeiro (Brazil).

I have Pacheco de Mello ancestors from Rabo de Peixe also but I'm not sure 
how (or if) they connect to these Manuels.  My mother's maternal 
grandfather was Ventura Pacheco de Mello, born Rabo de Peixe in 1885 to 
Francisco Pacheco de Mello and Rita de Jesus.  My Ventura did have a 
brother name Manuel Pacheco de Mello but on a 1903 passaporte listing he is 
shown as single so is not likely either Manuel (father of groom or 
groom) on this marriage.   

Bill Seidler

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