Re: What is Magic?/Making Money
Hugh Lovel wrote: So I pass the ball back to you and invite you to brainstorm with me how do I make this real to farmers? I guarantee they will make more money doing things the way I teach. How do I get the word out? YES!! RUSH me my instant *ULTIMATE* Dowsing and Rainmaking Kit in its Leatherette zip-up waterproof case PERSONALISED with my name and comprising Pendulum, Dowsing Rods and Miniature Radionic Broadcaster PLUS my detailed but easy-to-understand Instruction Book PLUS a Personal Introduction one FREE Pass to ___ 's next FABULOUS Rainmaking Workshop FOR ONLY $99.99*. I understand if I am one of the FIRST TWENTY applicants I will also receive a FREE Internet Directory of Global Biodynamic Resources and go into a draw to WIN $25,000** * plus post packing** conditions apply OR Dear Friend, I have specially chosen you from all my friends and acquaintances to receive this VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE because I know you have the interests of Planet Earth very much to heart in all that you do. May I prevail upon you not to hit the delete key just yet for in all likelihood reading this email will cost you very little compared with the benefits it could bring to you and yours over the years to come. Believe me, this NEWS that I bring is so STUPENDOUS it fair takes my breath away whenever I think about it. In essence it is that for a very small outlay the BROWN expanse of 'lawn' out back of your place can become GREEN and stay GREEN for as long as you choose. All you require for this MIRACLE to occur is my Instant Rainmaking Kit together with easy-to-understand Instruction Booklet plus attendance at my next workshop, all available by return post at only $129.99* Should you decide you want to pass up on this WONDERFUL offer at this time, may I ask you to forward this message, unedited, to ten of your own friends, and include this request in it. Kind regards, * conditions apply *** OR as JC put it 'Cast your bread upon the waters and it will be returned a thousandfold.' *** Whilst one might say that if we knew the answer to your question, we would all be rich by now and probably not be members of this list at all, it would be simplistic in the extreme. BD agriculture has been around for almost a century; components of it date back hundreds (if not thousands) of years yet the vast majority of the world's farmers still practise conventional or other forms of agriculture. Why? Because there's no money to be made in BD the way it's set up. Think about it. A conventional farmer has 10,000 acres of land. To grow crops on it, he has to prepare the fields. Assuming he has the machinery, he will at the very least need seeds and fertiliser. A farm supply place will sell him both, the fertiliser will be chemical and supplied by an agribusiness or subsidiary which is part of a global setup. Where there's more than one applicable chemical, the 'best' will be recommended (or dictated) by Agric Department or council or farmers' association. The same applies to weedkillers and, for graziers, animal feeds and supplements. In some cases, fertilisers are bought 'on-the-ground', the price including spreading by the supplier to the farmer's requirements. A biodynamic farmer has 10,000 acres of land. To grow crops on it, he has to prepare the fields. Assuming he has the machinery, he will at the very least need seeds and BD preps. He can make his own preps for which he will need healthy compost of a particular mix and standard. He can make this too but it all takes time and he has repayments to make on the mortgage. So he will buy the preps in. For this he will need a listing of BD suppliers which he will get from his nearest association. He may have the equipment to mix and apply the preps; if not and he doesn't have the time or inclination to do it manually, he will have to bring in a contract sprayer. And so it goes. The BD preparations are good, we know that, but there isn't much profit there and the set-up is lousy. We know that too, if we're honest about it. I was in the air force for over thirty years, played more war games in NATO (Germany) than you could poke a stick at. The first step to victory was always the same - set up supply lines and depots and communications facilities. The second was information, loads of it. The next was personnel and equipment placement. In terms of preparation the battle was usually a set-piece and the least important. For BD to get ahead it needs an edge, even if it has to go outside BD to get it. Don't do things in isolation, package them. For instance, couple rainmaking sessions with workshops that farmers tell you are of value to them (even if they are not to you) like keeping their farms alive in drought or making ends meet on a reducing income or any number of other things. Use the internet to get to people. Produce information booklets and
Re: G.M.O. transfers
Dear friends, We in N.Z. are being threatened with the release of G.M.O.'s into our environment. In the U.S.A. you have been living with situation for a while Have any members of this list had G.M. pollen affect plants on your properties? Have you had any friends or neighbours affected in this way? Is it a concern for anyone or has some one found a way to protect from contamination or clean it out afterwards? - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps Sorry if you read me wrong, Jane. My intention was not to chastise you but simply bring you up to date. No emotional energy here. I have total respect for Jean-Paul, which is why I was curious about why he would care about the physcial attributes of the preps. Your remark about 'political bruha' seems to trivialize the actual state of things. It is important to understand that if the USDA says that manure-based compost teas are 'dangerous,' it's not going to be acceptable to the customers of we non-certified organic practitioners to provide them food that 'shit has been sprayed on.' Anyone to steps in the realm of reason in regard to this will really be putting themself in jeopardy should any of their customers become ill for any reason whatsoever after eating a meal containing tea blasted produce. Let me be clear about this, though: the USDA is just discussing the sanctions on tea right now. This is not, as far as I understand, part of the certification rule currently. (Lloyd? Frank?) Ironically, I have been thinking of adding oat straw tea to my daily routine. That and 1m hypericum 3x daily for a few weeks. Thanks for the post, Jane -Allan
Re: What is Magic?
Hi Loyd, I'm sure you could prep each tea brew as you set the brewing process going. Before that prep the composts that you are using for tea brewing and certainly keep the broadcasters going. Last year you posted that you had a measureable difference with a pentrometer where the broadcaster was working. Don't look for reasons why you can't do it, look for reasons why you can. Better still just do it and tell us how you got on. Very best of luck and good management, Peter. - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:49 AM Subject: Re: What is Magic?
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Jane Sherry wrote: Jean-Paul did not express interest, I was just lucky enough to be at the farm, ate some wonderful farm food, and mentioned the thread at bdnow. He is well aware of how ridiculous the USDA org regs are as regards e coli, and in fact mentioned that there could not possibly be any e coli in a properly made compost or compost tea! Jean Paul has previously said that he looks to Will Brinton as his composting guru. Brinton, in addition to advising us as to the proper shape of cow horn for prepmaking, is also on record pointing out that there is indeed a substantial possibility that 'properly made' compost and compost tea can have E. coli in it. Look at www.woodsend.org under publications, and make sure you have Adobe Acrobat reader. I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but if you are composting in a hurry, and even following the hot composting regs, you may still end up with fecal coliforms (E.coli and a few others) in the hundreds per gram, and can still brew them up into the thousands per ml. It may not happen every time, but apparently it can happen enough to make compost tea on food crops a sort of negative lottery. For that reason, compost tea advocates across the spectrum suggest that compost tea for fresh produce crops be made from certified compost containing no E.coli, especially no E.coli 0157:H7, the pathogenic form most likely to cause problems, found in a recent USDA study in nearly half the cattle herds in the USA. Yes, in really good compost you won't find E. coli, and yes, in really good compost tea E. coli will be reduced rather than grow. Vermicomposting, which composters who have a long cycle are often doing even without knowing it, will crash E. coli pops in as little as 7-60 days, perhaps due to the presence of certain amoebae that worms carry which find E. coli to be especially tasty...and/or perhaps due to other reasons involving the commensal consortia of microorganisms associated with the earthworms. Does everyone out there have 'really good compost'? Frankly I doubt it. Do the process standards required under the NOSB, or even recommended in Dr Ingham's Compost Tea Manual, always result in 'really good compost'? No, I think they do not. Those standards are designed to produce compost which is below 1,000 MPN per gram of fecal coliforms. Compost containing 100 or less MPN of E. coli (the predominant fecal coliform) has been used in reasonable looking compost tea brewers and been made to grow E.coli following various nutrient additions. This compost is well within the accepted norm of 'properly made compost'. So, while it may be true that many or most 'properly made composts' should contain low or no E. coli and not grow them in compost tea making, it is likely also true that some, perhaps even many 'properly made composts' do contain E. coli and lack the antagonists necessary to reduce E. coli, thus allowing growth to take place when suitable nutrients are added in a compost tea situation. Dr Ingham herself accepts as reasonable the suggestion that compost for tea applications on fresh produce within 120 days of harvest be tested and certified E. coli free. I think she knows that not all 'composts' will qualify. Frank Teuton
ORMUS was Re: Bowling for BioDynamics
Sunday, November 17 - Introductory lecture - 2:00 - 4:00 p.m. Coolfont Resort, Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. This lecture is free. Monday, November 18 - Workshop - 9:30 - 4:30 p.m., Coolfont Resort, Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. Cost $50 with pre-registration or $60 at the door. Lodging is available, For more information or reservations, call Coolfont and talk with Mara at 304-258-6941. You can find directions to Coolfont Resort on their web site at: Barry - I'll see you on the 17th and, probably, the 18th. I can bring some ag students and fellow practitioners with me, also. I have room for BD Now! campers but, alas, no room at the inn. Thanks for the heads up. See you later -Allan
Rain Making in Santa Fe
Hugh - Anyone - I can't find the details on this event on the web right now. Has it happened? If so, what was the attendence and how did it go? Tapes/Videos available? Thanks -Allan
Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Actually, Frank, in that conversation, JP also said it is because of Will Brinton that this e coli mess happened around these compost tea regs, and he didn't sound happy about it. Frankly, I have always understood the current organics game to be about claiming market share. Not at all about producing vital quality food for people. The more the world changes, the more convinced I am that we need locally produced food by people who's face we can see and name we can know. CSA's make more sense than ever. Here in the east coast of US, almost all of the organic food (in health stores) comes from the commercial so called organic farms in CA. It has no taste for the most part, and goes bad after two days and has no vital forces. I recently heard another story about a so called organic farmer who sprayed their farmers' market greens with some kind of 'approved' gas or chemical to make them stay fresher longer and poisoned their downhill neighbors. It pays to know who you are dealing with and failing that to develop powers of discernment. If you're going to trust this government to tell you what is safe to eat, then you're a fool, excuse me! (Yeah, you live in Canada where people don't even lock their doors!) When the margarine producers wanted more market share, who came out talking about clogged arteries from fat? Who has more obese members of the population than America? Certainly, there is going to be bad compost tea along with the good stuff. Just like farmers. If people would stop looking for a magic bullet (compost tea) or 'the great man' (Steiner, the gov't, whomever) to save them, and look to themselves and their own community work on their spiritual development along with other kinds of development, perhaps we'd get somewhere. Blessings, Jane S. From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:58:55 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps Jean Paul has previously said that he looks to Will Brinton as his composting guru. Brinton, in addition to advising us as to the proper shape of cow horn for prepmaking, is also on record pointing out that there is indeed a substantial possibility that 'properly made' compost and compost tea can have E. coli in it.
Re: Bowling for BioDynamics
Dear Barry, Very interesting. I was expecting to be in Santa Fe, NM on those dates. Dear Hugh, At 08:36 PM 11/10/2002, you wrote: Do you have a clue on how to sell this? God bless you if you do. We need a good salesman. And where, if it WAS you in Waynesville, you didn't sell me, that's no invalidation. It is an odd coincidence to see the name Waynesville, NC on this list at this time. I have been invited to Waynesville to give a lecture and workshop on ORMUS. I will be bringing one of the giant walnuts grown on a tree which was given ocean water ORMUS precipitate and I will be sporting my new darker beard from the ORMUS copper. The main theme of my talk with be an explanation of ORMUS theory about how resonances (like biodynamic and homeopathic resonances) are propagated by the ORMUS elements. Here are the specifics of my Waynesville presentations: Thursday, November 21 - Introductory lecture - 7:00 - 9:00 p.m., Human Dimensions Institute, Seven Springs Center, #770 Shelton Cove Rd., Waynesville, NC, $10 donation. Saturday, November 23 - Workshop - 10:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. (with a break for lunch), Human Dimensions Institute, Seven Springs Center, #770 Shelton Cove Rd., Waynesville, NC, Cost: $45 if prepaid $50 at the door. Lodging is available ($40-$75), For more information, pre-payment or reservations call Mary at 828-926-1511 or 800-714-1397 or call ParamDevi at 828-235-1397. Mary's email address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ParamDevi's email address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sunday, November 17 - Introductory lecture - 2:00 - 4:00 p.m. Coolfont Resort, Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. This lecture is free. Monday, November 18 - Workshop - 9:30 - 4:30 p.m., Coolfont Resort, Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. Cost $50 with pre-registration or $60 at the door. Lodging is available, For more information or reservations, call Coolfont and talk with Mara at 304-258-6941. You can find directions to Coolfont Resort on their web site at: http://www.coolfont.com/directions.asp I would like to invite the folks on this list to attend one or more of these presentations as they will be a great way for us to get better acquainted and to establish local circles of folks who are interested in working with and using the ORMUS materials in agriculture and as mineral supplements. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2319 Balm Baker City, Oregon 97814 Phone: 541-523-3357 Web Pages: Forest - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/bmnfa/index.htm ORMUS - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/whatisit.htm We must either let the Law of Love rule us through and through or not at all. Love among ourselves based on hatred of others breaks down under the slightest pressure. The fact is such love is never real love. It is an armed peace. And so it will be in this great movement in the West against war. War will only be stopped when the conscience of mankind has become sufficiently elevated to recognize the undisputed supremacy of the Law of Love in all the walks of life. Some say this will never come to pass. I shall retain the faith till the end of my earthly existence that this shall come to pass . . . --Mahatma Gandhi-- Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Certainly, there is going to be bad compost tea along with the good stuff. Just like farmers. If people would stop looking for a magic bullet (compost tea) or 'the great man' (Steiner, the gov't, whomever) to save them, and look to themselves and their own community work on their spiritual development along with other kinds of development, perhaps we'd get somewhere. Jane - I was with you until this last paragraph, which sounds like a vote for the blind leading-the-blind. Having spent far more time than I wished I had in communal situations, I vote for everyone think for themselves while following practical charismatic leaders. Psychologist/bodhisatva Ken Wilber provides some pretty strong spiritual evolution models that explain why it is to our advantage to work with individuals who are at least one rung up the ladder of evolution from where we are. His ideas are worth checking out. Otherwise, in many ways, we are trying to solve problems with the same minds that created them. Throw out government advice, sure (but the smart money will use it in a discerning fashion), but I'm cleaving to Rudolf Steiner and the several teachers that his ideas have inspired. I'm not ashamed of knowing less than someone else, in fact, am slow enough to look at almost everyone as a teacher. Aside from this, I'm all for organizing at the local level and think that, ideally, CSA is a route to redemption. Allan Balliett who is currently atoning for delivering the CSA concept to swines
Re: G.M.O. transfers
Hi Peter, Put Percy Schmeiser into your search engine. He has a website where he tells how Monsanto hounded him when his canola crop in Saskatchewan was contaminated with Roundup Ready Canola and he had never planted GMO seeds or used roundup. They sent in retired Royal Mounted Police to intimidate anyone who had been contaminated because their patent on Roundup Ready Canola superseeded a farmer's right to save seed. They offered a leather jacket to anyone who would rat on his neighbor. Percy had been the mayor of his town and in the Canadian parliament and he knew his way around. He refused to pay the fine. Monsanto sued him as an example. He has fought them all the way, but patent law made it impossible for him to win. He has spent $300,000 fighting them. Read Facing Down Goliath on that website. Evidently, many growers in the U.S. and Canada have been contaminated--canola, soybeans and corn. It's a nightmare. Contamination is inevitable. Zambia refused to accept GMO corn as humanitarian aid because they understood that it was just a ploy to contaminate their country's seeds. My advice would be to organize and fight this in any way you can, Merla Peter Michael Bacchus wrote: Dear friends, We in N.Z. are being threatened with the release of G.M.O.'s into our environment. In the U.S.A. you have been living with situation for a while Have any members of this list had G.M. pollen affect plants on your properties? Have you had any friends or neighbours affected in this way? Is it a concern for anyone or has some one found a way to protect from contamination or clean it out afterwards? - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps Sorry if you read me wrong, Jane. My intention was not to chastise you but simply bring you up to date. No emotional energy here. I have total respect for Jean-Paul, which is why I was curious about why he would care about the physcial attributes of the preps. Your remark about 'political bruha' seems to trivialize the actual state of things. It is important to understand that if the USDA says that manure-based compost teas are 'dangerous,' it's not going to be acceptable to the customers of we non-certified organic practitioners to provide them food that 'shit has been sprayed on.' Anyone to steps in the realm of reason in regard to this will really be putting themself in jeopardy should any of their customers become ill for any reason whatsoever after eating a meal containing tea blasted produce. Let me be clear about this, though: the USDA is just discussing the sanctions on tea right now. This is not, as far as I understand, part of the certification rule currently. (Lloyd? Frank?) Ironically, I have been thinking of adding oat straw tea to my daily routine. That and 1m hypericum 3x daily for a few weeks. Thanks for the post, Jane -Allan
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Jane wrote: Certainly, there is going to be bad compost tea along with the good stuff. Uh huh. And, if the bad compost tea is used on the fresh produce, that means there will be a food poisoning outbreak, and dead kids and old people, and that is just, well, tough luck? Or, B, farmers should only make and use compost tea on fresh produce if it is tested and thus known to be pathogen free? Please forgive my lack of 'spiritual evolution' but, in my view, the effort required to use known compost entities is small and the benefit of assurance of tea quality is large, given the potential risks. Somehow, Oh well and Shrug seem to me unacceptable as a response to this possibility. Frank Teuton
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Allan, we are not in disagreement. I'm all for teachers, as long as one, again, uses discernment, one's own cognitive intuitive powers along with their teachings. It's not Steiner I am knocking--just hero worship blind obedience (ie: Steiner didn't say that, etc etc) JS From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:53:07 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps am slow enough to look at almost everyone as a teacher. Aside from this, I'm all for organizing at the local level and think that, ideally, CSA is a route to redemption.
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Oh, well is not at all my response. I am not a scientist, but I bet if you looked up the numbers for those killed or sickened by pathogens in government approved meat (listeria, e coli, etc etc) you'd understand my perspective. I maintain, that this government is NOT to be trusted with my health. It is only a start to certify food is supposedly safe. This government approves all kinds of chemicals are 'safe' to allow industry to dump into my groundwater, earth, air and food. So if you're going to argue that we need government certification, I would argue we need local certification which would be much more meaningful to me. I simply don't trust this government to tell me what is and is not good for me. Shall I go on? What about mercury in children's vaccines? Take your pick. I understand the main intention here is to protect the people from pathogens. But that ain't going to happen. Like our friend down under said, what about the jerk who eats salad after going to the bathroom doesn't have enough sense to wash his hands. This country is lawsuit crazy. This is another good way to make lawyers rich and people poor. Nothing in me is going oh well and shrug about certification. It 's more like oh shit, they're co-opting another good thing to make themselves rich. Jane From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:49:39 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps Jane wrote: Certainly, there is going to be bad compost tea along with the good stuff. Uh huh. And, if the bad compost tea is used on the fresh produce, that means there will be a food poisoning outbreak, and dead kids and old people, and that is just, well, tough luck? Or, B, farmers should only make and use compost tea on fresh produce if it is tested and thus known to be pathogen free? Please forgive my lack of 'spiritual evolution' but, in my view, the effort required to use known compost entities is small and the benefit of assurance of tea quality is large, given the potential risks. Somehow, Oh well and Shrug seem to me unacceptable as a response to this possibility. Frank Teuton
Re: ORMUS was Re: Bowling for BioDynamics
Dear Allan, At 05:49 AM 11/11/2002, you wrote: Sunday, November 17 - Introductory lecture - 2:00 - 4:00 p.m. Coolfont Resort, Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. This lecture is free. Monday, November 18 - Workshop - 9:30 - 4:30 p.m., Coolfont Resort, Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. Cost $50 with pre-registration or $60 at the door. Lodging is available, For more information or reservations, call Coolfont and talk with Mara at 304-258-6941. You can find directions to Coolfont Resort on their web site at: Barry - I'll see you on the 17th and, probably, the 18th. I can bring some ag students and fellow practitioners with me, also. I have room for BD Now! campers but, alas, no room at the inn. Thank you for your kind offer to provide a space for BD Now! campers on your space! I am looking forward to meeting you. I am very interested in seeing your farm. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2319 Balm Baker City, Oregon 97814 Phone: 541-523-3357 Web Pages: Forest - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/bmnfa/index.htm ORMUS - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/whatisit.htm We must either let the Law of Love rule us through and through or not at all. Love among ourselves based on hatred of others breaks down under the slightest pressure. The fact is such love is never real love. It is an armed peace. And so it will be in this great movement in the West against war. War will only be stopped when the conscience of mankind has become sufficiently elevated to recognize the undisputed supremacy of the Law of Love in all the walks of life. Some say this will never come to pass. I shall retain the faith till the end of my earthly existence that this shall come to pass . . . --Mahatma Gandhi--
FYI: Arkansas Rice Farmers Run Dry
News article in NY Times today about aquifer depletion. Why, shucks, they used it all up. -- John Buckley (for registered users; it'sfree to join) http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/11/national/11RICE.html?todaysheadlines
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Jane: You sound like the kid who refused to do his homework because 'the universe is expanding'. Yep, there is all sorts of bad stuff out there, the 'gummint' is into it up to its armpits, etc, etc. It is still the case that compost tea can be made well, not so well, and downright badly. It is less obvious than originally put forward how easy it is to do it badly. In trying to tell whether Brinton or Ingham is right about the risk, it is necessary to look at their arguments and data. The Bess experiments at least show it is possible to grow E. coli from stuff that looks like compost (and had passed through the regulatory requirements for 'properly made compost' as far as process is concerned) in something that looks like a compost tea brewer, using recommended nutrients at recommended amounts. From the regulators POV this means 'compost tea' as an unrestricted practice is not acceptable. The restriction of no added nutrients first proposed by the Compost Task Force would eliminate the potential of magnifying foodweb populations through feeding; the other possibility of requiring testing either of the compost or the resulting teas preserves that potential, while imposing other costs. In my opinion, the NOSB was correct in not accepting unrestricted use of compost teas. What needs to happen next is to determine what the necessary safeguards are to permit amplified foodweb culture use for fresh produce growing. It is certainly premature to say 'oh of course it is the evil gummint placing its jackboot on the neck of conscientious compost tea proponents, whose inherent holiness suppresses all pathogen growth of any kind within a 50 meter radius of their passage through the time space continuum.' The science of all this is very far from being settled. I find it remarkable how easily the BD crowd dismisses their own compost scientist's viewpoint and research on this subject. It may be time to take a closer look at this, and be a bit more rigorous and skeptical. Frank Teuton---true, he doesn't lock his doors, but his garage is full of savage attack trained watch worms.which eat E. coli as if it were candy - Original Message - From: Jane Sherry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BdNow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps Oh, well is not at all my response. I am not a scientist, but I bet if you looked up the numbers for those killed or sickened by pathogens in government approved meat (listeria, e coli, etc etc) you'd understand my perspective. I maintain, that this government is NOT to be trusted with my health. It is only a start to certify food is supposedly safe. This government approves all kinds of chemicals are 'safe' to allow industry to dump into my groundwater, earth, air and food. So if you're going to argue that we need government certification, I would argue we need local certification which would be much more meaningful to me. I simply don't trust this government to tell me what is and is not good for me. Shall I go on? What about mercury in children's vaccines? Take your pick. I understand the main intention here is to protect the people from pathogens. But that ain't going to happen. Like our friend down under said, what about the jerk who eats salad after going to the bathroom doesn't have enough sense to wash his hands. This country is lawsuit crazy. This is another good way to make lawyers rich and people poor. Nothing in me is going oh well and shrug about certification. It 's more like oh shit, they're co-opting another good thing to make themselves rich. Jane From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:49:39 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps Jane wrote: Certainly, there is going to be bad compost tea along with the good stuff. Uh huh. And, if the bad compost tea is used on the fresh produce, that means there will be a food poisoning outbreak, and dead kids and old people, and that is just, well, tough luck? Or, B, farmers should only make and use compost tea on fresh produce if it is tested and thus known to be pathogen free? Please forgive my lack of 'spiritual evolution' but, in my view, the effort required to use known compost entities is small and the benefit of assurance of tea quality is large, given the potential risks. Somehow, Oh well and Shrug seem to me unacceptable as a response to this possibility. Frank Teuton
FW: [globalnews] A Message From Thomas
Title: FW: [globalnews] A Message From Thomas -- Forwarded Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: The Beloved Community Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:58:25 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: A Message From Thomas Beloved Friends, We are nearing our target of having 100,000 Spiritual Warriors trained and ready to respond to any global crisis prayerfully and peacefully. It is exciting to know that we are forming a community of committed individuals from many countries who are dedicated to healing the world. I believe that the 100,000 people we seek are just the beginning. Soon there will be millions, and it will be impossible to continue the warring systems of the past. Compassion will rule, and Peace will prevail on Earth. As you know, this began with the messages being received from Psychic Children from around the world, in particular a young boy named Thomas I met in Bulgaria. Though I do not understand how this works (I am probably more skeptical than most), I receive transmissions from Thomas nearly whenever I spend time in the hot tub at my home. Hot water seems to work as a catalyst for receiving psychic energy. I would like to share a short message I received today that applies to our work as Spiritual Warriors. (This particular message is in response to questions we have received about using the word Warrior.) >From Thomas: The Psychic Children are here to show that you can learn to see the world in a new way. When we change the way we SEE the world, it changes on its own. The words we use to do this are not as important as the Light that frames these words. To re-frame a word that was used to describe conflict into a word that now describes peace is the real work. That is why it is appropriate to use the phrase Spiritual Warrior. A warrior is not necessarily one who fights, but one who has supreme passion for an ideal. If creating peace in the world and in your life is your passion, then you are a Peace Warrior. To accept it in any other way is to give the word more importance than the experience. The Psychic Children are the new Spiritual Warriors, and we are inviting you to join us. Accept these messages any way you choose. Even if it is hard to believe that they came from this young boy in Bulgaria (I have a hard time believing it myself sometimes), at least integrate the essential teaching of peace that is at the foundation. We will continue to pass on these messages from Thomas as they are received. Free Internet Course: In the last three years over 2000 people have taken one of the Internet courses we have offered through the Beloved Community. Now, with the critical importance of this time and this movement, we have decided to offer a series of courses free or on a donation basis. You may consider this the required curriculum for being a Spiritual Warrior, a sort of Peacemaker University. We hope to offer three or four of these self-paced Internet classes over the next year, the first being The Spoonbenders Course. In this course you will learn how to bend spoons with your mind, then apply the same technology to bending the world toward peace. It will be a remarkable four week experience, and we are proud to offer it to everyone. I believe that if all 100,000 people learn this technology, then we will be a powerful, peaceful force for good. The Spoonbenders Course should be ready sometime in December. Stay tuned for complete info regarding the Peace Journey to Israel, and well as the Psychic Childrens Conference in Hawaii. In Peace, James Twyman Join Our List: If you are interested in joining the email list of James Twyman and the Beloved Community, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word list in the subject or body of the email. Remove: If you are no longer interested in receiving emails from James Twyman or the Beloved Community, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word remove in the subject or body of the email. -
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Well, Frank, it's clear you're putting words into my mouth and making assumptions based upon your own arguments not mine. Mine is simple. I do not trust government to determine what is safe for me to eat. That has nothing to do with your arguments, which scientifically speaking I am sure are very important. I am not proposing that we throw out all gov't regulations, just that we need someone in charge who is trustworthy. You are welcome to think my opinions are somewhere out there in the time space continuum. Jane From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:00:57 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps It is certainly premature to say 'oh of course it is the evil gummint placing its jackboot on the neck of conscientious compost tea proponents, whose inherent holiness suppresses all pathogen growth of any kind within a 50 meter radius of their passage through the time space continuum.'
Re: What is Magic?
In a message dated 11/10/02 10:37:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Most everyone here thinks I have short circuited somewhere. I guess what I wanted to say here is thank you for all of your thoughts on this site. I feel so strongly that I am supposed to be learning these things. Allan spoke in a recent post about creating sparks from your thoughts and I think you have helped me here. Much goes right over my head, but some I grasp on a deeper level than even I can really understand or explain. I am on a journey to find and support my intuitive nature (which is the real me) and disconnect from the logical side that I have had to learn to function in in my role here. Hard to do. Hey Michelle, you have not short circuited, you have plugged in and your molecules are getting rearranged. You have asked for help and you are getting it. Keep doing what you are and questions will be answered, help will come when needed. Soon the same people that doubt your efforts will be asking for your help. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Create Life and enjoy your New Farm...sstorch
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Dear Frank, The E. coli scare is absurd. I question whether there is a single human on this continent that doesn't have E. coli in their intestines. On the other hand, the HR 157:H7 strain that is so pathogenic is a feed lot breed. It isn't cattle herds on pasture that have it, it is herds in confinement being fed on grain by-products. This produces a chronic diarhea condition in the cattle and hence they get HR157:H7. My local slaughter house that only slaughters local pastured beef gets tested twice a week and has never had any HR157:H7 show up. It is pathetic when fear stampedes people and they ignore the science of the subject. Best, Hugh Lovel Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: What is Magic?/Making Money
Dear Roger, No doubt we all get to put up with a lot. But personally I have a tendency to be offended by such pitches. I guess I'm a reluctant huck, so I'm also a reluctant huckster. Best, Hugh Hugh Lovel wrote: So I pass the ball back to you and invite you to brainstorm with me how do I make this real to farmers? I guarantee they will make more money doing things the way I teach. How do I get the word out? YES!! RUSH me my instant *ULTIMATE* Dowsing and Rainmaking Kit in its Leatherette zip-up waterproof case PERSONALISED with my name and comprising Pendulum, Dowsing Rods and Miniature Radionic Broadcaster PLUS my detailed but easy-to-understand Instruction Book PLUS a Personal Introduction one FREE Pass to ___ 's next FABULOUS Rainmaking Workshop FOR ONLY $99.99*. I understand if I am one of the FIRST TWENTY applicants I will also receive a FREE Internet Directory of Global Biodynamic Resources and go into a draw to WIN $25,000** * plus post packing** conditions apply OR Dear Friend, I have specially chosen you from all my friends and acquaintances to receive this VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE because I know you have the interests of Planet Earth very much to heart in all that you do. May I prevail upon you not to hit the delete key just yet for in all likelihood reading this email will cost you very little compared with the benefits it could bring to you and yours over the years to come. Believe me, this NEWS that I bring is so STUPENDOUS it fair takes my breath away whenever I think about it. In essence it is that for a very small outlay the BROWN expanse of 'lawn' out back of your place can become GREEN and stay GREEN for as long as you choose. All you require for this MIRACLE to occur is my Instant Rainmaking Kit together with easy-to-understand Instruction Booklet plus attendance at my next workshop, all available by return post at only $129.99* Should you decide you want to pass up on this WONDERFUL offer at this time, may I ask you to forward this message, unedited, to ten of your own friends, and include this request in it. Kind regards, * conditions apply *** OR as JC put it 'Cast your bread upon the waters and it will be returned a thousandfold.' *** Whilst one might say that if we knew the answer to your question, we would all be rich by now and probably not be members of this list at all, it would be simplistic in the extreme. BD agriculture has been around for almost a century; components of it date back hundreds (if not thousands) of years yet the vast majority of the world's farmers still practise conventional or other forms of agriculture. Why? Because there's no money to be made in BD the way it's set up. Think about it. A conventional farmer has 10,000 acres of land. To grow crops on it, he has to prepare the fields. Assuming he has the machinery, he will at the very least need seeds and fertiliser. A farm supply place will sell him both, the fertiliser will be chemical and supplied by an agribusiness or subsidiary which is part of a global setup. Where there's more than one applicable chemical, the 'best' will be recommended (or dictated) by Agric Department or council or farmers' association. The same applies to weedkillers and, for graziers, animal feeds and supplements. In some cases, fertilisers are bought 'on-the-ground', the price including spreading by the supplier to the farmer's requirements. A biodynamic farmer has 10,000 acres of land. To grow crops on it, he has to prepare the fields. Assuming he has the machinery, he will at the very least need seeds and BD preps. He can make his own preps for which he will need healthy compost of a particular mix and standard. He can make this too but it all takes time and he has repayments to make on the mortgage. So he will buy the preps in. For this he will need a listing of BD suppliers which he will get from his nearest association. He may have the equipment to mix and apply the preps; if not and he doesn't have the time or inclination to do it manually, he will have to bring in a contract sprayer. And so it goes. The BD preparations are good, we know that, but there isn't much profit there and the set-up is lousy. We know that too, if we're honest about it. I was in the air force for over thirty years, played more war games in NATO (Germany) than you could poke a stick at. The first step to victory was always the same - set up supply lines and depots and communications facilities. The second was information, loads of it. The next was personnel and equipment placement. In terms of preparation the battle was usually a set-piece and the least important. For BD to get ahead it needs an edge, even if it has to go outside BD to get it. Don't do things in isolation, package them. For instance, couple rainmaking sessions with workshops that farmers tell you are of value to them (even if they are not to you) like keeping their farms alive in drought or
Re: G.M.O. transfers
Hi Peter and every one: we have not these problems in Brasil 'cause nationally a law rules on not planting gmos. Of course many farmers are interested on the promises but seems that we have paved a good way. I have read a bit about gmos, and some pollen migration were detected in Oaxaca, Mexico which contaminated wild corn in the area. There was a very tense situation because mexican government tried to do not let information about migration to be published. I've heard the same had happen in setentional Europe on wild beet. One site that you could look at is http://www.bio-integrity.org/ where you can find some warnnings not heard inside USDA. You problably know about the recent UKs Soil Association report on gmos? BR Nelson. - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Elaine outlined at the Bioneers conference the unscientific ness of the 2 tests they used and also the ludicriousness of having ecoli in an aerobic solution. This situation is just another example of bad science being used for capitialist ends. Need I go on about the corruptness of science in our present age. Science has become a joke. Until there is a united NAtions of science where sciences' own criteria are actually applied to itself and all branches of science are forced to keep up with each other, then science has lost its relevance as any form of authority. It is just yet one more prostitute of business. And this time its Elaine getting screwed by it. Elaine is the biggest threat to the chemical companies that has come along in a long time. She may have felt she was part of the establishment enough to have her work accepted. There are enough examples of 'expelled' scientisits around to show she may well be (is) getting the same treatment. Yet again the rich doing what they can (Joni Mitchell) Glen A Hugh Lovel wrote: Dear Frank, The E. coli scare is absurd. I question whether there is a single human on this continent that doesn't have E. coli in their intestines. On the other hand, the HR 157:H7 strain that is so pathogenic is a feed lot breed. It isn't cattle herds on pasture that have it, it is herds in confinement being fed on grain by-products. This produces a chronic diarhea condition in the cattle and hence they get HR157:H7. My local slaughter house that only slaughters local pastured beef gets tested twice a week and has never had any HR157:H7 show up. It is pathetic when fear stampedes people and they ignore the science of the subject. Best, Hugh Lovel Visit our website at: www.unionag.org -- Garuda Biodynamics - for BD Preps, Consultations, Books Diagrams See our web site http://get.to/garuda
FWD: Tree farms won't halt climate change
Dear Friends, Here is the first of two articles that were just forwarded to the Ecological Economics forum. Tree farms won't halt climate change 09:32 28 October 02 Fred Pearce, Valencia The Kyoto Protocol to halt climate change is based on a scientific fallacy, according to the first results of CarboEurope, a Europe-wide programme that has pioneered research into the carbon budget. The protocol says that countries can help meet their targets for cutting emissions of greenhouse gases over the next decade by planting forests to soak up carbon dioxide. But the soil in these Kyoto forests will actually release more carbon than the growing trees absorb in the first 10 years, the new research shows. Countries will be able to claim carbon credits for the forests. But that won't reflect what is happening in the atmosphere, says Riccardo Valentini of the University of Tuscia in Viterbo, Italy. He presented the CarboEurope data last week in Valencia, Spain. The project's revelations could embarrass governments now meeting in New Delhi to discuss implementation of the Kyoto Protocol. Earlier in October, Italy announced plans to achieve between 10 and 40 per cent of its emission reductions target for 2012 through forest planting. But now its own scientists are warning that these sinks might not work. CO2 surge The problem is soils. Forest soils and the organic matter buried in them typically contain three to four times as much carbon as the vegetation above. CarboEurope's researchers have discovered that when ground is cleared for forest planting, rotting organic matter in the soil releases a surge of CO2 into the air. This release will exceed the CO2 absorbed by growing trees for at least the first 10 years, they say. Only later will the uptake of carbon by the trees begin to offset the losses from soils. In fact, says CarboEurope chairman Han Dolman of the Free University Amsterdam, some new forests planted on wet, peaty soils will never absorb as much carbon as they spit out. The world's densest network of CO2 monitoring devices has revealed that Europe's forests are absorbing up to 400 million tonnes a year, or 30 per cent of the continent's emissions. Researchers once assumed that most of this came from young forests, since old forests were thought to be in equilibrium with the atmosphere - sucking up as much gas as they spew out. But, says Valentini, old forests actually accumulate more carbon than young plantations. This suggests that conservation of old forests is a better policy for tackling global warming than planting new ones. Perverse incentive But the Kyoto Protocol takes none of this into account. Besides ignoring soils, it has no measures to stop deforestation, says Valentini. Instead, it seems to give countries a perverse incentive to chop down existing natural forests and replace them with plantations. They will be able to claim carbon credits for the new planting, while in reality releasing huge amounts of CO2 into the air, says Valentini. There is nothing in the protocol to stop this. If the politicians had known in 1997 what we know now, they would never have agreed to its rules on carbon sinks - at least, I hope they wouldn't, says Dolman. 09:32 28 October 02 Return to news story © Copyright Reed Business Information Ltd. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2319 Balm Baker City, Oregon 97814 Phone: 541-523-3357 Web Pages: Forest - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/bmnfa/index.htm ORMUS - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/whatisit.htm We must either let the Law of Love rule us through and through or not at all. Love among ourselves based on hatred of others breaks down under the slightest pressure. The fact is such love is never real love. It is an armed peace. And so it will be in this great movement in the West against war. War will only be stopped when the conscience of mankind has become sufficiently elevated to recognize the undisputed supremacy of the Law of Love in all the walks of life. Some say this will never come to pass. I shall retain the faith till the end of my earthly existence that this shall come to pass . . . --Mahatma Gandhi--
FWD: Corporations
Dear Friends, Here is the second of two articles that were just forwarded to the Ecological Economics forum. Corporations http://www.fixgov.com/richardstimson.html Draft by Richard Stimson We start with solutions to world problems involving corporations that are most likely to meet with the approval of all members of the FixGov group and continuing with ones that may be more debatable. These ideas have been distilled from postings to the FixGov forum. Each proposed solution is numbered for convenience in referring to it when members offer comments. PROPOSALS ON WHICH WE ALL ARE THOUGHT TO AGREE 1. Corporations, especially the multinationals (also called transnationals), must be brought under control. They have extended their size and power to the point that they are a threat to the planet and its inhabitants. Some corporations are actually bigger than many national governments in the world. They are able to get free of environmental regulation by threatening governments that they will move to a more permissive jurisdiction. They undermine and destroy labor unions by similar threats or actual movement of factories to areas of low or non-existent standards for wages, health, and safety. 2. Remove the legal fiction that a corporation is a person. Here are 10 differences between corporations and real people: (1) Corporations have perpetual life, (2) Corporations can be in two or more places at the same time, (3) Corporations cannot be jailed, (4) Corporations have no conscience or sense of shame, (5) Corporations have no sense of altruism, nor willingness to adjust their behavior to protect future generations, (6) Corporations pursue a single-minded goal, profit, and typically are legally prohibited from seeking other ends, (7) There are no limits, natural or otherwise, to corporations' potential size, (8) Because of their political power, they are able to define or at very least substantially affect, the civil and criminal regulations that define the boundaries of permissible behavior. Virtually no individual criminal has such abilities, (9) Corporations can combine with each other, into bigger and more powerful entities, and (10) Corporations can divide themselves, shedding subsidiaries or affiliates that are controversial, have brought them negative publicity or pose liability threats. 3. Improper influence on government officials must be prevented. Outright bribery is used in some countries. Elsewhere, large corporations and their wealthy controlling stockholders influence public officials by campaign contributions and by favors such as expense-paid trips to luxury resorts, interest-free loans, and free use of corporate jet planes. They also underwrite propaganda campaigns to help political parties and candidates. To circumvent election laws in the US they stop short of saying vote for X or vote against Y but come as close to that as possible. Although it is illegal for corporations to contribute to political campaigns, they seem to have done so by various loopholes and subterfuges. 4. Newspapers and broadcasters need to be freed from the control of corporate cartels. Since the Telecommunications Act of 1996 there has been a parade of media mergers and over 4,000 radio stations have been bought up in the United States, while television networks are now in the hands of huge corporations like General Electric, Viacom, Disney, and Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation. Murdoch also controls large portions of the television and newspaper media in Great Britain, Australia, and elsewhere. Corporate media have done their best to hide corporate scandals and to downplay or distort any protests against corporations. 5. Corporate efforts to undermine pure food laws, to raise livestock under factory conditions with dangerous use of antibiotics and hormones, to treat food with hazardous radiation, to modify crops genetically without adequate testing, to patent life forms and traditional remedies, and to promote killer seeds that make farmers forever dependent on corporate suppliers must be brought under control. This should be done by national laws to the extent possible and by new international controls under the UN or similar body. 6. Agencies of the United Nations need to be prevented from operating in secrecy in behalf of multinational corporations. On the world scene, global corporationsError! Bookmark not defined. (including global bankers and financial companies) dominate international agencies unrestrained by democratic safeguards. At the World Bank, IMF, and WTO the walls of secrecy should be removed, independent outside experts should be used, and the policy-makers and advisory groups should include balanced representation of the interests involved, not dominated by the global corporations. The World Bank should include experts not beholden to the financial community; e.g., economists from labor organizations, consumer groups, and the academic world, as well as environmental organizations and experts from
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Dear Hugh, The fact that we all carry benign strains of E. coli in our guts, and are colonized therewith shortly after birth, does not mean that there are not virulent strains of E. coli from animal sources that we need to be concerned about. The E. coli 0157:H7 issue is covered in a number of places; one recent paper that is interesting is: http://www.fass.org/fass01/pdfs/Callaway.pdf The infectious dose is indicative of the virulence of pathogenic bacteria, and E. coli O157:H7 has an extremely low infectious dose. In one outbreak the contamination level of E. coli O157:H7 in uncooked hamburger meat was less than 700 cells/patty and some victims ingested very little of the (improperly) cooked meat (Griffin, 1998). The Walkerton water outbreak here in Canada underscored the manure problem associated with 0157:H7: http://www.med.uwo.ca/ecosystemhealth/education/casestudies/walkertonmed.htm Now, Hugh, I am willing to accept that BD folks as a group are at low risk of having and spreading 0157 around. But, the NOSB has to deal with a larger universe of people than that, with composts coming from feedlot animals, and with an influx of newbies who may or may not know their excrement from their waxy shoe protectant, if you catch my reference... Compost tea is new. By that I mean compost tea as Elaine defines it, aerobically amplified and nutrient added. Whatever we should say about the Bess study, she showed that you can grow E. coli in a compost tea environment. For the most part E. coli is simply an indicator for the fate of other pathogens, chosen for its ease of monitoring, but in its 0157 form (and a few others) it is a potent pathogen in its own right, and at very low infective doses. The majority of 0157 outbreaks have been meat related, but several have also occured in salad materials, fruit juices, and sprouts. So, concern that 0157 might pass into compost tea through compost and into the food supply through application of tea and retention on produce surfaces is not absurd. It is reasonable, and a small amount of precautionary activity can ensure that we develop this exciting new tool in agriculture safely and responsibly. This is not a bad thing, nor the end of the world; it just echoes the age old truth that along with greater power ( the ability to quickly multiply the bacterial count of a watery extract of compost a thousand fold) comes greater responsibility ( the need to be even more careful to avoid multiplying a pathogen). I guess this also means, that yes Virginia, it does so matter where your cow pattie comes from;-) I suppose I could say something about stampeding, fear, ignorance, sticking your head in the sand, and really doing your homework on the science of the matter, but I already have enough bad karma for being unpleasant with Jane, so I won't go there But Hugh, there are an awful lot of people out there who think there really is a pathogen problem, including Dr Brinton, and even Elaine herself. Pretending it doesn't exist is not the answer. Frank Teuton - Original Message - From: Hugh Lovel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:43 PM Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps Dear Frank, The E. coli scare is absurd. I question whether there is a single human on this continent that doesn't have E. coli in their intestines. On the other hand, the HR 157:H7 strain that is so pathogenic is a feed lot breed. It isn't cattle herds on pasture that have it, it is herds in confinement being fed on grain by-products. This produces a chronic diarhea condition in the cattle and hence they get HR157:H7. My local slaughter house that only slaughters local pastured beef gets tested twice a week and has never had any HR157:H7 show up. It is pathetic when fear stampedes people and they ignore the science of the subject. Best, Hugh Lovel Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps
Jane Sherry wrote: Well, Frank, it's clear you're putting words into my mouth and making assumptions based upon your own arguments not mine. Mine is simple. I do not trust government to determine what is safe for me to eat. Snip I am with you. Gil
Re: G.M.O. transfers
Dear Peter, Greg Willis put this information on the BDNow list in 1999, and it should help you with your question. We have made up the Pre Mix he talks about and use it here in Australia, mainly for regeneration of badly contaminated or dead soils. Luckily we have not had to use it for GMO decontamination yet, but we are ready, as I am sure it will happen one day. The pre mix recipe is an attachment, and as I cant attach it here I will have to type it up and send it later on to BDNow list. Cheryl. GMO's and Remediation by Greg Willis The primary concern with GMO organisms is that they create an imbalance or disharmony in the field. But this disharmony and imbalance extends greatly beyond the field both in terms of extant on the land and within the changes that occur on all living things around them. This includes all the plants, animals and humans in the area, in the region, in the continent, in the world and in the cosmos. It even extends to the dominions and realms around which life is built. As above, so below. Thus, we can say that the little manipulation of a gene in an obscure laboratory is very much like the fluttering of the butterfly wings that ends up, on the other side of the world as a hurricane. It is that important. So we begin. As we have said before, what is in the mind of the individual creator is as important, in some cases more important, than what is being created. If GMO's were created for the purpose of advancing human understanding of the cosmos, that would be acceptable within limits. If they are created for the purposes of controlling that which cannot be controlled, human conduct and Nature, if they are created for the purpose of greed or self-aggrandizement, that would be negative and counter-evolutionary in the broadest and narrowest sense. Both cause mankind to move backward, be retarded in its growth. The soul who creates, or brings into manifestation, a plant that is a true reflection of Spirit, is doing good for the world. A person who brings in a manifestation of Spirit by ignoring the Universal Laws of Creation, is harming mankind and the world, including, we might add, the mineral kingdom. Let us look at the various worlds on Earth: mineral, plant, animal and humankind. (Note: Go to the text - God Talks With Arjuna, THE BHAGAVAD GITA, Royal Science of God-Realization by Paramahansa Yogananda) and list the various koshas or sheaths.) These stages of expression are referred to in yoga as sheaths or koshas. These are screens of delusion, each of which, in descending order, obscures to a greater degree the real Cause and Essence of all creation, God. The five koshas are the bliss sheath, the intellect or discriminative sheath, the sheath of the mind, the life sheath or prana, and gross matter. The bliss sheath is that which covers and causes the causal world and body of man. The three sheaths of intellect, mind and life are the coverings of the astral universe and body of man. The matter sheath manifests as the physical universe and body of man. In ascending order, from matter to Spirit, the five natural evolutionary stages of life are results of these five sheaths. When one by one the sheaths are unfolded, there is a corresponding manifestation of a progressively higher expression of life. Inert minerals are enlocked in all five sheaths. With the unfolding of the matter sheath, the life sheath is revealed, and the resulting manifestation is the life in plants. When the matter sheath is unfolded and the mind sheath becomes manifested, the animal kingdom is expressed. (Animals have perceptions and consciousness, but not the intellect to discriminate between right and wrong.) When the mind sheath is unfolded, and the discriminative sheath is revealed, we have the manifestation of intellect, or man, with the ability to think, reason, and guide his actions by discrimination and free choice. When man rightly uses this discriminative power, the discriminative sheath is rolled back and the bliss sheath is revealed. This is the state of divine man, with just a thin veil of individuality between himself and God. Within the plant world, the world we are concerned with explicitly in this discourse, we have no sentient beings. We have no creatures that are aware of their presence nor have the discriminative powers to tell right from wrong. Plants lack the ability to experience bliss, they do not think for themselves and they do not recognize themselves as I or an individuality. They do, on the other hand, recognize their life in the sense that they are alive but do not recognize themselves as alive. Thus when a plant is harvested, it has no awareness that it has ceased to exist. True, it manifests the various stress indicators that Dr. Bose discovered, but it does not see itself as dying, only that it is changing form, physical form to Spiritual form. For the plant, there is no difference. (The same holds true for minerals, and to some extent, animals such as insects and the lower
Re: G.M.O. transfers
I don't know if you are not aware of GMO crops being used in Brazil, but, I had read years ago about those multi-nat.-corps. doing business in Brazil. It might be more prevalent than you think, or, it was stopped in the early stages. I haven't been following the story now for a couple of years since the GMO list is no longer free. Michael - Original Message - From: Nelson Jacomel Junior [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: G.M.O. transfers Hi Peter and every one: we have not these problems in Brasil 'cause nationally a law rules on not planting gmos. Of course many farmers are interested on the promises but seems that we have paved a good way. I have read a bit about gmos, and some pollen migration were detected in Oaxaca, Mexico which contaminated wild corn in the area. There was a very tense situation because mexican government tried to do not let information about migration to be published. I've heard the same had happen in setentional Europe on wild beet. One site that you could look at is http://www.bio-integrity.org/ where you can find some warnnings not heard inside USDA. You problably know about the recent UKs Soil Association report on gmos? BR Nelson. - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
Re: FWD: Tree farms won't halt climate change
Dears, Good points. I have envisioned, for the past 25 or so years, how might be the best way to draw carbon out of the atmosphere. Presently I'm growing corn as a soil improvment crop to add carbon in organized (not necessarily stable but lasting forms to the soil, i.e. the carbon stays in the soil even though it changes its forms.) forms and add it back to our soils. Corn is a C4 plant, meaning it is amongst the best photopynthesisers. I can't grow sugar cane here because of the winters or I wqould be experimenting with sugar cane. Trees change the ecology and bring the biology of the soil up into the trunk and canopy of the forest. So they actually deplete the soil of life and send it up into the stand. Maybe this DOES actually give off carbon dioxide initinally But no matter, corn grabs up so much more carbon dioxide in a single year it isn't funny, so why try to grow trees other than stable aesthetics? Grow corn. Or grow hemp, which is comparable in sequestering carbon dioxide, and preferable if you want fiber. Such good fiber. The reason, so far as I can tell, that trees are in favor is that inputs are so low you could wait forever. Well, the same is true of field broadcasting. If field broadcasting is used other inputs would be comparably low. People should investigate and not just accept the current global ideas. Best, Hugh Dear Friends, Here is the first of two articles that were just forwarded to the Ecological Economics forum. Tree farms won't halt climate change 09:32 28 October 02 Fred Pearce, Valencia The Kyoto Protocol to halt climate change is based on a scientific fallacy, according to the first results of CarboEurope, a Europe-wide programme that has pioneered research into the carbon budget. The protocol says that countries can help meet their targets for cutting emissions of greenhouse gases over the next decade by planting forests to soak up carbon dioxide. But the soil in these Kyoto forests will actually release more carbon than the growing trees absorb in the first 10 years, the new research shows. Countries will be able to claim carbon credits for the forests. But that won't reflect what is happening in the atmosphere, says Riccardo Valentini of the University of Tuscia in Viterbo, Italy. He presented the CarboEurope data last week in Valencia, Spain. The project's revelations could embarrass governments now meeting in New Delhi to discuss implementation of the Kyoto Protocol. Earlier in October, Italy announced plans to achieve between 10 and 40 per cent of its emission reductions target for 2012 through forest planting. But now its own scientists are warning that these sinks might not work. CO2 surge The problem is soils. Forest soils and the organic matter buried in them typically contain three to four times as much carbon as the vegetation above. CarboEurope's researchers have discovered that when ground is cleared for forest planting, rotting organic matter in the soil releases a surge of CO2 into the air. This release will exceed the CO2 absorbed by growing trees for at least the first 10 years, they say. Only later will the uptake of carbon by the trees begin to offset the losses from soils. In fact, says CarboEurope chairman Han Dolman of the Free University Amsterdam, some new forests planted on wet, peaty soils will never absorb as much carbon as they spit out. The world's densest network of CO2 monitoring devices has revealed that Europe's forests are absorbing up to 400 million tonnes a year, or 30 per cent of the continent's emissions. Researchers once assumed that most of this came from young forests, since old forests were thought to be in equilibrium with the atmosphere - sucking up as much gas as they spew out. But, says Valentini, old forests actually accumulate more carbon than young plantations. This suggests that conservation of old forests is a better policy for tackling global warming than planting new ones. Perverse incentive But the Kyoto Protocol takes none of this into account. Besides ignoring soils, it has no measures to stop deforestation, says Valentini. Instead, it seems to give countries a perverse incentive to chop down existing natural forests and replace them with plantations. They will be able to claim carbon credits for the new planting, while in reality releasing huge amounts of CO2 into the air, says Valentini. There is nothing in the protocol to stop this. If the politicians had known in 1997 what we know now, they would never have agreed to its rules on carbon sinks - at least, I hope they wouldn't, says Dolman. 09:32 28 October 02 Return to news story © Copyright Reed Business Information Ltd. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2319 Balm Baker City, Oregon 97814 Phone: 541-523-3357 Web Pages: Forest - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/bmnfa/index.htm ORMUS - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/whatisit.htm We must either let the Law of Love rule us through and through or not
Re: Bowling for BioDynamics
Title: Re: Bowling for BioDynamics So I don't want to see Think LOKI or anything else. hey folks one can not call on this fella as if the gods goddess are imaginary. They the energies of their conceptualization works have obvious effects. You Rattle their chains they rattle ours we have chaos on the list. Or as Essie put it once 'every once in a while, some guy drags a fire hydrant out and someone has to piss on it'. ( If is miss paraphrased you please forgive me Essie!) L*L Markess
Re: FWD: Tree farms won't halt climate change
Dears, Good points. I have envisioned, for the past 25 or so years, how might be the best way to draw carbon out of the atmosphere. Presently I'm growing corn as a soil improvment crop to add carbon in organized (not necessarily stable but lasting forms to the soil, i.e. the carbon stays in the soil even though it changes its forms.) forms and add it back to our soils. Corn is a C4 plant, meaning it is amongst the best photopynthesisers. I can't grow sugar cane here because of the winters or I wqould be experimenting with sugar cane. Trees change the ecology and bring the biology of the soil up into the trunk and canopy of the forest. So they actually deplete the soil of life and send it up into the stand. Maybe this DOES actually give off carbon dioxide initinally But no matter, corn grabs up so much more carbon dioxide in a single year it isn't funny, so why try to grow trees other than stable aesthetics? Grow corn. Or grow hemp, which is comparable in sequestering carbon dioxide, and preferable if you want fiber. Such good fiber. The reason, so far as I can tell, that trees are in favor is that inputs are so low you could wait forever. Well, the same is true of field broadcasting. If field broadcasting is used other inputs would be comparably low. People should investigate and not just accept the current global ideas. Best, Hug This was the comment. hope it survivest Berst, Hugh Dear Friends, Here is the first of two articles that were just forwarded to the Ecological Economics forum. Tree farms won't halt climate change 09:32 28 October 02 Fred Pearce, Valencia The Kyoto Protocol to halt climate change is based on a scientific fallacy, according to the first results of CarboEurope, a Europe-wide programme that has pioneered research into the carbon budget. The protocol says that countries can help meet their targets for cutting emissions of greenhouse gases over the next decade by planting forests to soak up carbon dioxide. But the soil in these Kyoto forests will actually release more carbon than the growing trees absorb in the first 10 years, the new research shows. Countries will be able to claim carbon credits for the forests. But that won't reflect what is happening in the atmosphere, says Riccardo Valentini of the University of Tuscia in Viterbo, Italy. He presented the CarboEurope data last week in Valencia, Spain. The project's revelations could embarrass governments now meeting in New Delhi to discuss implementation of the Kyoto Protocol. Earlier in October, Italy announced plans to achieve between 10 and 40 per cent of its emission reductions target for 2012 through forest planting. But now its own scientists are warning that these sinks might not work. CO2 surge The problem is soils. Forest soils and the organic matter buried in them typically contain three to four times as much carbon as the vegetation above. CarboEurope's researchers have discovered that when ground is cleared for forest planting, rotting organic matter in the soil releases a surge of CO2 into the air. This release will exceed the CO2 absorbed by growing trees for at least the first 10 years, they say. Only later will the uptake of carbon by the trees begin to offset the losses from soils. In fact, says CarboEurope chairman Han Dolman of the Free University Amsterdam, some new forests planted on wet, peaty soils will never absorb as much carbon as they spit out. The world's densest network of CO2 monitoring devices has revealed that Europe's forests are absorbing up to 400 million tonnes a year, or 30 per cent of the continent's emissions. Researchers once assumed that most of this came from young forests, since old forests were thought to be in equilibrium with the atmosphere - sucking up as much gas as they spew out. But, says Valentini, old forests actually accumulate more carbon than young plantations. This suggests that conservation of old forests is a better policy for tackling global warming than planting new ones. Perverse incentive But the Kyoto Protocol takes none of this into account. Besides ignoring soils, it has no measures to stop deforestation, says Valentini. Instead, it seems to give countries a perverse incentive to chop down existing natural forests and replace them with plantations. They will be able to claim carbon credits for the new planting, while in reality releasing huge amounts of CO2 into the air, says Valentini. There is nothing in the protocol to stop this. If the politicians had known in 1997 what we know now, they would never have agreed to its rules on carbon sinks - at least, I hope they wouldn't, says Dolman. 09:32 28 October 02 Return to news story © Copyright Reed Business Information Ltd. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2319 Balm Baker City, Oregon 97814 Phone: 541-523-3357 Web Pages: Forest - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/bmnfa/index.htm ORMUS - http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/whatisit.htm We must either
Re: What is Magic?
- Original Message - From: Peter Michael Bacchus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:51 PM Subject: Re: What is Magic? Hi Peter Thanks for the suggestions - we are just about to start some compost for next years pre sowing brews and I have proper preps for that. As for the second half of your message - nothing that a bit or rain would not have fixed - I did'nt realise my 'atttiude' was showing to this extent - or prhaps you are more perceptive than most? - thanks for the wakeup! Lloyd Charles Hi Loyd, I'm sure you could prep each tea brew as you set the brewing process going. Before that prep the composts that you are using for tea brewing and certainly keep the broadcasters going. Last year you posted that you had a measureable difference with a pentrometer where the broadcaster was working. Don't look for reasons why you can't do it, look for reasons why you can. Better still just do it and tell us how you got on. Very best of luck and good management, Peter. - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:49 AM Subject: Re: What is Magic?
FW: [globalnews] Global Inter-faith Prayer Vigil for Peace
Title: FW: [globalnews] Global Inter-faith Prayer Vigil for Peace >From Jean Hudons VisionaryActivism mailing list comes the following: Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 From: Bridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Global Inter-faith Prayer Vigil for Peace Hi Jean and all with the Earth Rainbow Network To add to y/our Meditation Focus #75 for co-creating peace in Iraq, I would like to share with us all this most poignant 40-day peace initiative to include with our prayers and meditations ... it is being sponsored by Inner Net of the Heart and began yesterday, on 11/9, with the intention to reverse the effects of 9/11. With blessings and gratitude to us all, for how we are each standing on behalf of us all ... Joie and our Rainbow Councils --- From: http://www.innernetoftheheart.org Reverse what began on 9/11 Join the Global Inter-faith Prayer Vigil for Peace Beginning on 11/9 You Are Invited To The Opening Event Of A 40-Day Global Prayer Vigil For Peace Timing Of The Vigil This Peace Prayer vigil begins on November 9, at dawn local time, all across the planet. The vigil will continue uninterrupted for 40 days, concluding at midnight on December 18, 2002. If your group cannot begin on November 9, no problem-just begin as soon as possible. Humanity stands at the brink of war. Spiritual leaders and their communities across the globe are responding to this crisis with an intensive worldwide prayer vigil for peace. To reverse what began on 9/11, the prayer vigil begins on 11/9 and will continue for 40 days. Participants include spiritual groups and organizations in the United States, Canada, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Tibet, Brazil, Korea, and others-all praying simultaneously for peace. Many spiritual groups that regularly pray for peace are joining the vigil as a way to commune with others in a worldwide prayer for peace. As Father Thomas Keating, founder of the Centering Prayer movement put it, Our Cistercian order already prays for peace six or seven times a day, but what is crucial about this global inter-faith vigil is that it is organized, conscious, and focused. It is important that we are praying for peace in communion with our counterparts in other faith traditions around the world's A similar response came from Buddhist master Thrangu Rinpoche in Nepal: In order to help pacify the tensions of a disturbed time such as this, it is necessary for every person with a mind of compassion. Inner Net of the Heart Join us where the heart's longing meets the world's need. Together we will form an inner net of hearts across the globe praying for peace. Join us in prayer: * On behalf of the millions of innocent children and civilians who Will be killed or maimed if a war begins * On behalf of all life forms that would be harmed by a war * In compassion for all beings May peace prevail on Earth The Global SOS Initiative is a joint project of the Manitou Institute and the Satyana Institute. Visit our website at http://www.innernetoftheheart.org -- With Blessings to Us All for All That We Are Joie and Our Rainbow Councils http://www.rainbowbridgecoalition.org To join Joie's e-list send an email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] with SUBSCRIBE in the subject line --- NOTE FROM JEAN: Here is more from http://www.innernetoftheheart.org which features a most beautiful peace-radiating visual effect. Humanity stands at the brink of war. If initiated, this war will likely escalate into a global conflict, or even a third world war. Today's arsenals of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons will render any such conflagration a colossal nightmare on a scale exceeding all conceivable horrors. Every living being on Earth, and the foundations of life itself, are now threatened. Every measure to stop this war must be taken with no delay. Human resources and institutions are striving in a noble effort to stem the tide toward war, but they are woefully inadequate to the task. There is an urgent need at this time to go beyond human resources altogether, and appeal directly to higher planes of spiritual reality. An infusion of spiritual light and consciousness is needed now, for which humanity must to appeal directly to the Divine source of all life in this hour of profound need. SOS! CLIP This appeal to join the prayer vigil is directed to spiritual leaders and aspirants in every religious faith and spiritual tradition-priests, ministers, monks, nuns, roshis, rabbis, reverends, gurus, masters, sheiks, shamans, swamis, healers, lamas, rinpoches, etc.-and their respective followers, parishes, and congregations. Practitioners in different faiths are asked to draw upon the heritage of their own traditions to find the most effective practices, prayers, meditation techniques, fasting, mantras, chants, visualizations, or ritual ceremonies for peace. CLIP In this hour of deliverance, we recognize that there are a number of highly evolved spiritual beings on the planet who have very deep access to spiritual planes of reality. In
