RE: trying to get information

[Rose Tierney]

Hi,
One time I rehomed a dog of my breeding, I gave the new owners all the
information pertinant to the breeding of the dog but not details about the
original owner nor did she know (as if she cared). I had the first owner
sign the transfer papers and made a special request to the CKC because of
being a rescue situation. The new owners were aware of all the
circumstances but not the names and they were happy with that.

A friend of mine is in Scotties and told me of a rescue Scottie that was
reclaimed by the original owner when they had a change of heart. The new
owner did not have the transfer papers and the police told her she would
have to relinquish her Scottie to the person with the Registration.

Always when dealing with rescue animals get the legal transfers done in
case the original owner changes their mind. This is not uncommon in abusive
situations.

Rose T.




From: Burlile\MemoriesBMDs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: February 8, 2003 8:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: trying to get information


>
> > Is there some reason as a rescue dog that we should not
> >  have access to this information?
>
> Depends on how you define "rescue dog".  IF your dog came from a rescue >
organization, they may or may not have a policy with regard to releasing
the
> dog's historymuch like an adoption agency.
>
> If your dog was rehomed with you by his breeder, there is no legitimate >
reason I can think of not to provide you with information about his
parentage > and relatives.

Okay, I have a question  why is it "okay" for a rescue organization to
chose not to share this info, but not a breeder?

Tailwags,
Cathy Burlile
Memories BMDs

Re: trying to get information

[Burlile\\MemoriesBMDs]

> >  Okay, I have a question  why is it "okay" for a rescue organization
to
> >  chose not to share this info, but not a breeder?
>
> I didn't say it was "ok", I just stated that it's a fact.  Personally, I
> don't agree with it.  I think all known medical and identity information
> about the dog should be provided to the adoptor.

*** I agree.

> Assuming they're not incapacitated in some way, are there reasons I'm not
> thinking of for a breeder not to provide information to the adoptor of a
dog
> they place?
>
> Very possible there are issues I'm not considering...

*** I can't think of any unconsidered issues, Sherri.  Sometimes these
questions
just "pop into my head."   Sometimes I'm playing devil's advocate when I
ask, sometimes
I'm just curious and sometimes I'm being nosey  Oh!  I didn't say that,
did I?  LOLOL

*** All of the dog's history the breeder has knowledge of, excluding
previous owners' names and contact info, should be part of what's "rehomed"
with the dog.  Ditto for a rescue organization are my feelings.  All history
the
rescue organization has knowledge of, excluding previous owners' names and
contact
info, should be part of the rescue package.  How can a new owner know what
they're getting into if they have no info?

*** On the "flip side"    oh, that expression's going to date me.
There isn't a "flip side"
on a CD!   why would someone not insist the breeder provide this info
BEFORE taking the dog
home?  I can think of only one situation.

Tailwags,
Cathy, Memories BMDs

Re: trying to get information

[Eileen Morgan]

Do the papers list all previous owners? (horse papers do--I've never had
papers on a rescue so I am not sure about that).  One thing most rescue
clubs do is protect the privacy of the prior owner, the one who surrendered.
There are those people on both sides of the adoption issue who will harass
or otherwise intrude and be weird with the turn-in/adopting family. We don't
let either side know who each other are in the two rescue groups I've been
involved with. We do let the turn-in family know that things are going well
with the dog, but we don't give them personal contact info.

I once spent over an hour on the phone with a very angry and very  . . .
strange . . . woman who had turned a dog into rescue (she lived on the other
side of the country from me, by the way, and I have no idea how she got my
phone number) and now she and the husband wanted it back. I think she was on
something and she was about one staircase short of her attic anyhow. I would
hate to have some innocent new family call that person up to ask about some
minor health or behavior issue!

Eileen Morgan
The Mare's Nest
http://www.enter.net/~edlehman


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Re: trying to get information

[BernerFolk]

In a message dated 2/8/2003 9:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>>> Is there some reason as a rescue dog that we should not
>>>  have access to this information?

>> Depends on how you define "rescue dog".  IF your dog came from a rescue 
>> organization, they may or may not have a policy with regard to releasing 
the
>> dog's historymuch like an adoption agency.

>> If your dog was rehomed with you by his breeder, there is no legitimate
>>  reason I can think of not to provide you with information about his
>>  parentage and relatives.

>  Okay, I have a question  why is it "okay" for a rescue organization to
>  chose not to share this info, but not a breeder?

I didn't say it was "ok", I just stated that it's a fact.  Personally, I 
don't agree with it.  I think all known medical and identity information 
about the dog should be provided to the adoptor.

Assuming they're not incapacitated in some way, are there reasons I'm not 
thinking of for a breeder not to provide information to the adoptor of a dog 
they place?  

Very possible there are issues I'm not considering...

-Sherri V.   

Re: trying to get information

[Burlile\\MemoriesBMDs]

>
> > Is there some reason as a rescue dog that we should not
> >  have access to this information?
>
> Depends on how you define "rescue dog".  IF your dog came from a rescue >
organization, they may or may not have a policy with regard to releasing the
> dog's historymuch like an adoption agency.
>
> If your dog was rehomed with you by his breeder, there is no legitimate >
reason I can think of not to provide you with information about his
parentage > and relatives.

Okay, I have a question  why is it "okay" for a rescue organization to
chose not to share this info, but not a breeder?

Tailwags,
Cathy Burlile
Memories BMDs

re: trying to get information

[Canine-Corner]

It seems the breeder would like you to have some information and contact.
I would say this is not common amongst Berner breeders; particularly with
the open registry (Berner-garde.)  We should all be supporting this- as the
more dogs that can be listed in the data base the more we know about the
breed as a whole.  Even neutered dogs get cancer, so we ought to know what
we are producing regardless of whether an individual dog is to be bred or
not.
Even micro-chip information should be linked to you should the dog be
found...  (you can have that scanned; and then call with the information- IF
it is registered someplace- (some people I have come to find out have the
dogs chipped, but never send in the paper work, making the chip useless!)
perhaps then you will be contacted by the breeder (if they were the ones who
chipped the dog) hopefully opening up some communication.  It's fun to check
out the berner-garde data base and see who is who and who is related too
whom too.  There are also some pictures which can give you a sense of
"type."
I don't know who the breeder is- but perhaps check with the regional club
she may be a member of and see if her health is ok etc... we have a lot
going on , and sometimes I ignore the computer for weeks at a time, so I
know it can take me weeks to respond to emails...
We can't all breed perfect dogs all the time- or have all perfect dogs in
every litter, try as we may! we can only do our best and take precautions to
ensure such- and hope our best fulfills our expectations.  Hopefully, the
breeder should not feel that because this dog had less then perfect hips,
the breeding should remain anonymous.  It is obvious they are a caring
conscientious breeder, or would not have taken the dog back in the first
place, nor had the dog
x-rayed prior to breeding/showing, themselves...
just my 2 cents.
Good Luck.
~Rebecca (owned by Bernese since 1989)
Canine-Corner "from hair to heel"
Grooming & Training
Red Hook, NY

and/or
Mid-Hudson Kennel Association, Ltd.
Referral Chair/Instructor


"A DOG IS THE ONLY RELATIVE YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHOOSE SO CHOOSE
WISELY!"


- Original Message -
From: "James and Karen Gross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernerlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:37 PM
Subject: trying to get information

> My question is this:
> I have also asked for his birthdate (we know it is in November 2001, but
not the
> date) and for the information regarding his micro chip.
> No matter how many emails I send her, or how I ask, I can not get her to
> reply to my emails with the information.
> Is this normal?  Is there some reason as a rescue dog that we should not
> have access to this information?
> Any replies would be greatly appreciated.
> Karen and Thor (the big slimer duffen, that my mom loves)



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Re: trying to get information

[Dino Candelaria]

The Breeder's email could be down, or she could be very busy and only looks at it once 
in
a while.  (not making excuses, she should get back to you if she actually hears from 
you)
Have you tried calling? or sending a regular letter with your info so she can either, 
email 
call or write?

Do you know the dogs "official"/ AKC registered name?  He may be in the Berner Garde
data base. http://www.bmd.org/bg1.html  If he is you could find his pedigree, date of
birth and health clearances(if reported).

Dino Candelaria and the Blackcoral Berner Bunch



>>> "James and Karen Gross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 02/05/03 08:37PM >>>
We got our 'baby' from the breederhe was sold and then she traveled to
Nebraska to get him from the buyer when he could no longer keep him.She
brought him home and had him tested/xrayed as she wanted to breed and show
him herself.  She stated that his hips were too shallow to be able to
breed/show him, so we took him, had him neutered and promised to take care
of him forever.
My question is this: I have sent her several emails, requesting some general
information regarding his parents and siblings so that I can do some
research and do a family tree for himto put in his scrapbook.I have
also asked for his birthdate (we know it is in November 2001, but not the
date) and for the information regarding his micro chip.
No matter how many emails I send her, or how I ask, I can not get her to
reply to my emails with the information.
Is this normal?  Is there some reason as a rescue dog that we should not
have access to this information?
Any replies would be greatly appreciated.
Karen and Thor (the big slimer duffen, that my mom loves)

Re: trying to get information

[Jennifer Popp]

I've not had that experience in my dealings with the breeders I've gotten my
dogs from. Normal or not, I wouldn't consider it acceptable. BUT, have you
tried calling her? You must also consider the possibility of something being
wrong at her end. Her computer is down. Family issues that need attention.
Any number of things could be going on on her side. So before we crucify
her, I'd try an alternative form of communication.

Jenn Popp

Healthy Paws Bones and Raw Food Diet
http://www.healthy-paws.ca
Toronto, Ontario (Canada)
416-264-1313 / email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message -
From: James and Karen Gross
| My question is this: I have sent her several emails, 
| No matter how many emails I send her, or how I ask, I can not get her to
| reply to my emails with the information.
| Is this normal?

Re: trying to get information

[BernerFolk]

In a message dated 2/6/2003 12:42:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> We got our 'baby' from the breederhe was sold and then she traveled to
>  Nebraska to get him from the buyer when he could no longer keep 
him

>  My question is this: I have sent her several emails, requesting some 
general
>  information regarding his parents and siblings so that I can do some
>  research and do a family tree for himto put in his scrapbook.I have
>  also asked for his birthdate (we know it is in November 2001, but not the
>  date) and for the information regarding his micro chip.

>  No matter how many emails I send her, or how I ask, I can not get her to
>  reply to my emails with the information.
>  Is this normal?  

NO.

> Is there some reason as a rescue dog that we should not
>  have access to this information?

Depends on how you define "rescue dog".  IF your dog came from a rescue 
organization, they may or may not have a policy with regard to releasing the 
dog's historymuch like an adoption agency.

If your dog was rehomed with you by his breeder, there is no legitimate 
reason I can think of not to provide you with information about his parentage 
and relatives.  There is also no reason I can think of why you wouldn't be 
provided with the option of registering him (if he wasn't registered already) 
or transferring his registration from the previous owner to yourself (if he 
was registered). 

You mention a microchip...do you have the number and registry?  If not, can 
you have it scanned?  

~ Sherri Venditti