Re: [blackbelly] Help!

[Terry]

Sounds similar to my introduction-- cept mine got attacked by a tray dog almost
immediately!!!

Terry W


--- Chris & Eileen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So my intro to BBs. I got 2 ewe lambs last night. We brought them home 
> ~10:30 & unloaded them into a cattle pannel enclosure. One escaped 
> immediately and is gone. The other freaked out, this morning and is 
> loose in the big 1 acre pasture with just hot wire around it. Don't 
> think that's going to do much. So besides putting out water and saying a 
> prayer I am going to go beat the bushes for "Coyote Bait" as she is now 
> named and make one more request for my horses to please befriend this 
> little lost lamb.
> Any other suggestions???
> Eileen
> PS Beth not sure about that ram at this point! 
> 
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Re: [blackbelly] Help!

[William Buchanan]

Ah, I remember that lesson well... 

I got burned by my first group not long after "moving to the country". Two
rams, three ewes. They seemed so calm in those crates...no problem I
thought... "I'll just open their doors and let them out into this pen till
morning. They'll be fine"...

I slowly opened each animals crate and stepped out of the pen. It was dark
but the best I can tell, they slowly eased out together and then WHAM!
The biggest ram blasted the enclosure wide open and the rest came tumbling
after. I stood there in shock while they disappeared into the woods. I could
hear them bleating and crashing through the jungle...  it was obvious that
they were traveling at TOP SPEEDwithin a minute there was complete
silence. It was over... not a trace... not a peep... all gone. 
Afterwards, when my neighbor got through laughing(he looked and sounded just
like the donkey on "HEE HAW") he informed me of rule number one of raising
livestock. 
(spoken slowly with a strong southern accent)
Rule Number One: DON'T YOU NEVER... NEVER EVER... unload ANY animals at
night, especially their FIRST NIGHT. (at this point you spit if you have any
tobacco)

I guess it would have been unethical to let the city slicker know this rule
beforehand...

Oh well, it turned out okay.
I managed to recover all of them over the next week, due to some nice
neighbors and a TON of luck.

 Things will get better. :0)

Best of luck,

Chris B.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris &
Eileen
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:12 AM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [blackbelly] Help!

So my intro to BBs. I got 2 ewe lambs last night. We brought them home 
~10:30 & unloaded them into a cattle pannel enclosure. One escaped 
immediately and is gone. The other freaked out, this morning and is 
loose in the big 1 acre pasture with just hot wire around it. Don't 
think that's going to do much. So besides putting out water and saying a 
prayer I am going to go beat the bushes for "Coyote Bait" as she is now 
named and make one more request for my horses to please befriend this 
little lost lamb.
Any other suggestions???
Eileen
PS Beth not sure about that ram at this point! 

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Re: [blackbelly] Help!

[Dayna Denmark]

If the lambs have ever seen a feed bucket you might have some luck if you 
put some grain in it and hold it out in front of you as you walk around. The 
only time these little buggers act sane is when food is involved, and, if 
hungry enough they may just cooperate. You keep that food bucket in sight 
and they just might follow .

Let us know how it turns out for them, ok?
Dayna


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Re: [Blackbelly] Help.

[Carol J. Elkins]

Hi Oneta,

All messages posted to the Blackbelly listserv have been archived, 
all the way back to 2000 when the list was first created. However, 
the resources used to archive the posts are less than reliable. 
Therefore, you may need to check two different sources:


This list would be the first place to look. Occasionally it stops 
archiving, but eventually it seems to recover all on its own:

http://www.mail-archive.com/blackbelly%40lists.blackbellysheep.info/

This archive (provided by the service that runs the Blackbelly 
Listserv) uses really poor archiving technology and its search 
results are often not accurate. You will need your Blackbelly 
Listserv email address and password to log on:
http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/private.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info 



Carol Elkins
List Owner


At 08:03 PM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
I went to the list trying to find some information I had read 
earlier and what I have saved as the list is from 2005.  Does anyone 
have the link for the new stuff, like in the last month or so.


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Re: [Blackbelly] Help

[Elizabeth Radi]

what are you using for formula?  
If the scours are a greenish tinge, have them checked for coccidiosis.
I don't buy the powdered formula.  If you alter the formula ratio to water, you 
change the osmolality of the milk and could lead to scours.  I fed mine whole 
milk from the grocery store. They did great on that.  No mixing worries either. 
 Just my experience from the University of life. 

Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- evarojoe...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Lee Ann 
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Help
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:05 -0800

My two bummers have the scours, I have tried electrolytes and probiotics, and 
also watered down the formula? They are 13 days old?

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help

[Michael Smith]

Lee Ann. One question. How often are you feeding them? And are you feeding them 
at night as well? I'm not very experienced raising lambs but I've had a few 
rounds of bottle babies, and they always had diarrhea because I was told by a 
local breeder that I could just stuff them full of formula a few times a day 
and not feed them at night. So I did. Soon as I started feeding them  less per 
meal and more meals...and during the night... the diarrhea went away.

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 6:47 AM, Elizabeth Radi  wrote:
> 
> what are you using for formula?  
> If the scours are a greenish tinge, have them checked for coccidiosis.
> I don't buy the powdered formula.  If you alter the formula ratio to water, 
> you change the osmolality of the milk and could lead to scours.  I fed mine 
> whole milk from the grocery store. They did great on that.  No mixing worries 
> either.  Just my experience from the University of life. 
> 
> Liz Radi
> Nubian goats 
> Nunn, Colorado
> 
> 
> --- evarojoe...@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> From: Lee Ann 
> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> Subject: [Blackbelly] Help
> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:05 -0800
> 
> My two bummers have the scours, I have tried electrolytes and probiotics, and 
> also watered down the formula? They are 13 days old?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help

[Cecil Bearden]

I agree, if you are feeding the recommended amount on the replacer bag, 
it is about twice as much as Blackbellies need.   If using milk 
replacer, only use Land o Lakes or Merrick.   Dumore has beef fat to 
make the fat test and it is not digestible.   The lamb will grow until 
about 9 months then die from a small heart.  I would use whole milk from 
the grocery store or a local dairy if you cannot get Merrick or Land o 
Lakes.  Livestock concepts has Merrick.


Cecil in OKla

On 3/1/2016 9:13 AM, Michael Smith wrote:

Lee Ann. One question. How often are you feeding them? And are you feeding them 
at night as well? I'm not very experienced raising lambs but I've had a few 
rounds of bottle babies, and they always had diarrhea because I was told by a 
local breeder that I could just stuff them full of formula a few times a day 
and not feed them at night. So I did. Soon as I started feeding them  less per 
meal and more meals...and during the night... the diarrhea went away.

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad


On Mar 1, 2016, at 6:47 AM, Elizabeth Radi  wrote:

what are you using for formula?
If the scours are a greenish tinge, have them checked for coccidiosis.
I don't buy the powdered formula.  If you alter the formula ratio to water, you 
change the osmolality of the milk and could lead to scours.  I fed mine whole 
milk from the grocery store. They did great on that.  No mixing worries either. 
 Just my experience from the University of life.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats
Nunn, Colorado


--- evarojoe...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Lee Ann 
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Help
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:05 -0800

My two bummers have the scours, I have tried electrolytes and probiotics, and 
also watered down the formula? They are 13 days old?

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help

[Michael Smith]

Another thing I forgot to mention, the breeder who recommended that
day-only feeding regimen?  Her goat kids (she raised goats, not sheep) also
mostly had diarrhea as well.

(if we are getting hits on the forum, it must be lambing season...)

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Cecil Bearden  wrote:

> I agree, if you are feeding the recommended amount on the replacer bag, it
> is about twice as much as Blackbellies need.   If using milk replacer, only
> use Land o Lakes or Merrick.   Dumore has beef fat to make the fat test and
> it is not digestible.   The lamb will grow until about 9 months then die
> from a small heart.  I would use whole milk from the grocery store or a
> local dairy if you cannot get Merrick or Land o Lakes.  Livestock concepts
> has Merrick.
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
>
> On 3/1/2016 9:13 AM, Michael Smith wrote:
>
>> Lee Ann. One question. How often are you feeding them? And are you
>> feeding them at night as well? I'm not very experienced raising lambs but
>> I've had a few rounds of bottle babies, and they always had diarrhea
>> because I was told by a local breeder that I could just stuff them full of
>> formula a few times a day and not feed them at night. So I did. Soon as I
>> started feeding them  less per meal and more meals...and during the
>> night... the diarrhea went away.
>>
>> -MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2016, at 6:47 AM, Elizabeth Radi  wrote:
>>>
>>> what are you using for formula?
>>> If the scours are a greenish tinge, have them checked for coccidiosis.
>>> I don't buy the powdered formula.  If you alter the formula ratio to
>>> water, you change the osmolality of the milk and could lead to scours.  I
>>> fed mine whole milk from the grocery store. They did great on that.  No
>>> mixing worries either.  Just my experience from the University of life.
>>>
>>> Liz Radi
>>> Nubian goats
>>> Nunn, Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>> --- evarojoe...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Lee Ann 
>>> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
>>> Subject: [Blackbelly] Help
>>> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:05 -0800
>>>
>>> My two bummers have the scours, I have tried electrolytes and
>>> probiotics, and also watered down the formula? They are 13 days old?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> ___
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>>>
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>>>
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>
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS????

[Cecil Bearden]

It appears I have a lamb with tetanus or Closridium.  It is my largest lamb 
and the first one of one of my 2 year old ewes.  I have been feeding oat hay 
that has a lot of grain in it.  I also have been feeding corn gluten pellets 
to supplement as we are in some of the coldest weather we have ever had. 
Last Tues a blizzard hit with 10 inches of snow and 6 ft drifts.  4 ewes had 
lambs that day.  I have about 45 lambs.  I have to keep everybody penned in 
about 2 acres as the wheat pasture is gone due to the drought.  About 3 am I 
found this lamb stretched out and could not stand.  His muscles are tight 
and will not allow him to move.  He has a frothy bloat.  I gave him tetanus 
antitoxin and penn last night but he is still in the same condition this 
morning.  It appears he is somewhat dehydrated as the skin is tight and 
tough.  I ran a feeding tube down his throat last night and it gave him some 
relief from the gas, but the froth is still there and I cannot get my 
feeding tube far enough down to administer a surfactant.  I am going to try 
some electrolyte solution in the tube and give hime more antitoxin and penn.


It appears to be tetanus /enterotoxemia.

any opinions would be welcome

Cecil in OKla





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Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS????

[Liz Radi]

Cecil,

In my opinion, feeding concentrates(grains, pellets(I am not talking alfalfa 
or grass pellets) etc) will not keep the animal warmer.  Only forages do, 
grass hay and alfalfa.
If  temp gets too low, the rumen may not work as efficiently or not at all, 
the rumen bugs will die off  if the temp in the body gets too low.so I like 
to give them free choice brome/orchard grass hay and alfalfa, only 25% of 
their diet being alfalfa.
We first started to get interested in hair sheep due to the no docking, 
disbudding and no shearing aspect of them, since we shear alpacas, and have 
our Nubians disbudded. And some ads stating parasite resistant,and no need 
for vaccinations.
I realize that everyone needs to do what they feel is best for their 
herd/flock, but these are my feeling regarding no vaccines to  lambs.  I 
think that every animal is subject to tetanus bacteria if the conditions are 
right, it is in the soil, and manure.  To not give CD&T is a disservice to 
the animal as dyeing of tetanus is a horrible death.  In alpaca they are 
looking into giving the tetanus part once every 5 years or so, not yearly as 
was done in the past, after the initial vaccine and a 21-28 follow up 
booster, and then again at a year.
I think the ideal in feeding ruminant animals is no concentrates, unless in 
late pregnancy or heavy lactation, and then only a small amount, and 
hopefully you know what you are doing.  I think for the most part, the 
grains/concentrates are being fed for the humans.

Now diagnosing tetanus(from one of my goat books)
usually occurs 2 weeks after wound or contamination, convulsions, may be 
head pressing, usually not circling.  Excited and stiff when touched, 
usually within 24-48 hours the entire body is stiff.  Fever.
treatment with high doses of penicillin IM , sedatives, and tetanus 
antitoxin., but treatment usually unsuccessful and 80% of goats die.

Hope this makes since, hard to articulate at times, not being a writer.
Sorry about your poor little lamb.

Liz Radi
Idar Alpacas and Nubian Goats
Nunn, Colorado 80648
970-716-7218
http://idaralpaca.blogspot.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Cecil Bearden" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS


It appears I have a lamb with tetanus or Closridium.  It is my largest 
lamb and the first one of one of my 2 year old ewes.  I have been feeding 
oat hay that has a lot of grain in it.  I also have been feeding corn 
gluten pellets to supplement as we are in some of the coldest weather we 
have ever had. Last Tues a blizzard hit with 10 inches of snow and 6 ft 
drifts.  4 ewes had lambs that day.  I have about 45 lambs.  I have to 
keep everybody penned in about 2 acres as the wheat pasture is gone due to 
the drought.  About 3 am I found this lamb stretched out and could not 
stand.  His muscles are tight and will not allow him to move.  He has a 
frothy bloat.  I gave him tetanus antitoxin and penn last night but he is 
still in the same condition this morning.  It appears he is somewhat 
dehydrated as the skin is tight and tough.  I ran a feeding tube down his 
throat last night and it gave him some relief from the gas, but the froth 
is still there and I cannot get my feeding tube far enough down to 
administer a surfactant.  I am going to try some electrolyte solution in 
the tube and give hime more antitoxin and penn.


It appears to be tetanus /enterotoxemia.

any opinions would be welcome

Cecil in OKla





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Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS????

[The Wintermutes]

Hi Cecil,

How old is your lamb?

If he is beyond 30 days old he might have eaten too much of the pellets.  I
have never had a problem with oat hay and oats.

I have had a lamb that grew so fast he became deficient in selenium/vitamin
E.  He was the biggest prettiest lamb out of 100+ lambs.  He could not walk
and was bloated from laying down on his side.  We gave him a BO-SE injection
and he was back to normal in 24 hours.  We did a repeat shot of BO-SE to be
safe 30 days later.  This lamb turned out to be one incredible sire.  I know
you have had a bad experience with BO-SE before but it does not sound like
you have much to lose to try it this time.

You are already giving anti-biotics, surfactants, and electrolytes.  The
only other suggestion I have is to keep the lamb upright.  You might want to
make a sling and hang him next to a wall so his feet are beneath him proper.
Or just fold his legs (if they will bend) under him and put him up against a
wall.  Just do not let him lie on his side.

I am assuming the lamb is not plugged up.  Make sure there is no blockage
requiring an enema.

Hope he makes it Cecil.  I know you have skills but not all of them live.

Good luck,

Mark Wintermute





It appears to be tetanus /enterotoxemia.

any opinions would be welcome

Cecil in OKla





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Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS????

[Cecil Bearden]

He died!  It did not present symptoms of selenium deficiency.  We are very 
high in selenium in this area.  The wate wells have been shut in due to 
selenium.  This was one of the prettiest and largest lambs for his age I 
have ever had.  I feed pellets for the nursing ewes as we are now in a 
drought and have had no wheat pasture for the last 30 days. Now we are in 
one of the worst winters, if the weatherman is right about what is coming.
I have lost only one lamb this season and I think it was butted.  This lamb 
appears to have eaten enough of the pellets to create enterotoxemia or 
tetanus.  Most of the symptoms are tetanus.
I did not get them vaccinated this year as I now need help to work with my 
animals.  I cannot walk on my right ankle due to some nerve problems.  My 
back also will not allow me to stand longer than 30 minutes.  It appears all 
of these problems are due to the stress of caring for my invalid father who 
died in August 2010.


I lost 30 acres of oats (that would have made 4 bales to the acre) this 
year to a hailstorm.  The 160 acres I rented only produced 65 bales of oat 
hay due to a genetic problem with the seed.  It was sprayed and fertilized 
and after cutting the oats, the Johnson grass gew up and made 350 bales of 
good hay, but no one wants to buy Johnson grass hay.  Last year I sold 250 
bales to a local horse arena/training facility.  But after cutting their 
pasture and baling their 20 acres and losing $1000 on repair parts due to 
junk in the field, they decided to buy hay from a neighbor.


My regular 30 acres of wheat/ryegrass pasture gave out last month since we 
have not had any measureable precipitation since August 2010.  The oat hay I 
baled and they are now eating has a lot of grain as the oat plants headed 
out at only 9 inches of height.  So, there is not a lot of straw mostly 
leaves and grain.  It is so tender that the 1 week old lambs are eating it. 
It is great they are learning to eat so early, but it also presents problems 
with tetanus.   This has been one hell of a year.  I now see why the 
original settler of this farm started teaching school job 2 years after the 
run of 89.  This is one of the worst farms areas in OKlahoma.   The farmland 
has been worn out, it is red clay that requires more fertilizer than you can 
imagine to produce. It was rented out for 20 years to a farmer who was not 
very interested in peserving the land.
The land is one of the highest points in Canadian county, there is nothing 
to block the constant wind.  It should be a good area for a wind generator, 
but the wind energy companies were ran out by the developers.  Due to the 
development and the need for more schools, etc, the taxes went from $500/yr 
to $3500/yr in the last 8 years


I hope no one thinks I am complaining, just saying how much of a challenge 
it is to farm in Central OKlahoma.   My paternal Grandfather traveled 
through this land as a traveling Wesleyan minister.  He said this land 
should have never been broken out of the native grass.  I would have to 
agree, when we applied 1 ton of chicken litter to the acre on the pasture, 
we had native Bluestem grass that grew to 6 ft in height.  It made excellent 
hay..  livestock will thrive on the pasture..


I retired to this land to farm and raise my sheep, but to make a living from 
this land, I have to develop it.  Which means I have to move somewhere and 
start over.


Thanks to you all for your help.

Cecil in OKla


- Original Message - 
From: "The Wintermutes" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS



Hi Cecil,

How old is your lamb?

If he is beyond 30 days old he might have eaten too much of the pellets. 
I

have never had a problem with oat hay and oats.

I have had a lamb that grew so fast he became deficient in 
selenium/vitamin
E.  He was the biggest prettiest lamb out of 100+ lambs.  He could not 
walk
and was bloated from laying down on his side.  We gave him a BO-SE 
injection
and he was back to normal in 24 hours.  We did a repeat shot of BO-SE to 
be
safe 30 days later.  This lamb turned out to be one incredible sire.  I 
know

you have had a bad experience with BO-SE before but it does not sound like
you have much to lose to try it this time.

You are already giving anti-biotics, surfactants, and electrolytes.  The
only other suggestion I have is to keep the lamb upright.  You might want 
to
make a sling and hang him next to a wall so his feet are beneath him 
proper.
Or just fold his legs (if they will bend) under him and put him up against 
a

wall.  Just do not let him lie on his side.

I am assuming the lamb is not plugged up.  Make sure there is no blockage
requiring an enema.

Hope he makes it Cecil.  I know you have skills but not all of them live.

Good luck,

Mark Wintermute





It appears to be tetanus /enterotoxemia.

any opinions would be welcome

Cecil in OKla





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Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS????

[Liz Radi]

Gee, Cecil, I am so very, very sorry to hear of your loss.  And the problems 
with your land.
We lived in Az for 5 years, now that is a challenge, you have to purchase 
everything that goes into their mouths.
Now live in Colorado a little better, on the grasslands near the Pawnee 
National grasslands.  The land does not seem to be too good for much other 
than sustaining Pronghorn antelope.  That is why we are trying to find 
Katahdin hair sheep to raise here. Should do well on our grassland. Oh 
another thing, we get less rain here than we did in Benson Arizona.  I think 
under 15 inches.  The wind blows here like a banshee also.  We put pallets 
around our garden.
Maybe go to the county extension agents office  and ask for help on amending 
your soil, planting shelter belts and whatever else you need.  So expensive 
to move these days.
I wish that I lived closer to Oklahoma, I could help you with your 
vaccinating.

But, at least you still have your ewe, and can repeat the breeding.
I was just reading on the internet about aflatoxins in corn, since the 
drought in Iowa, the plants are stressed so could be a problem with that.
I was a RN for 23 years and I know how the role of care giver  can reek on 
one's body over time.

Liz Radi
Idar Alpacas and Nubian Goats
Nunn, Colorado 80648
970-716-7218
http://idaralpaca.blogspot.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Cecil Bearden" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS


He died!  It did not present symptoms of selenium deficiency.  We are very 
high in selenium in this area.  The wate wells have been shut in due to 
selenium.  This was one of the prettiest and largest lambs for his age I 
have ever had.  I feed pellets for the nursing ewes as we are now in a 
drought and have had no wheat pasture for the last 30 days. Now we are in 
one of the worst winters, if the weatherman is right about what is coming.
I have lost only one lamb this season and I think it was butted.  This 
lamb appears to have eaten enough of the pellets to create enterotoxemia 
or tetanus.  Most of the symptoms are tetanus.
I did not get them vaccinated this year as I now need help to work with my 
animals.  I cannot walk on my right ankle due to some nerve problems.  My 
back also will not allow me to stand longer than 30 minutes.  It appears 
all of these problems are due to the stress of caring for my invalid 
father who died in August 2010.


I lost 30 acres of oats (that would have made 4 bales to the acre) this 
year to a hailstorm.  The 160 acres I rented only produced 65 bales of oat 
hay due to a genetic problem with the seed.  It was sprayed and fertilized 
and after cutting the oats, the Johnson grass gew up and made 350 bales of 
good hay, but no one wants to buy Johnson grass hay.  Last year I sold 250 
bales to a local horse arena/training facility.  But after cutting their 
pasture and baling their 20 acres and losing $1000 on repair parts due to 
junk in the field, they decided to buy hay from a neighbor.


My regular 30 acres of wheat/ryegrass pasture gave out last month since we 
have not had any measureable precipitation since August 2010.  The oat hay 
I baled and they are now eating has a lot of grain as the oat plants 
headed out at only 9 inches of height.  So, there is not a lot of straw 
mostly leaves and grain.  It is so tender that the 1 week old lambs are 
eating it. It is great they are learning to eat so early, but it also 
presents problems with tetanus.   This has been one hell of a year.  I now 
see why the original settler of this farm started teaching school job 2 
years after the run of 89.  This is one of the worst farms areas in 
OKlahoma.   The farmland has been worn out, it is red clay that requires 
more fertilizer than you can imagine to produce. It was rented out for 20 
years to a farmer who was not very interested in peserving the land.
The land is one of the highest points in Canadian county, there is nothing 
to block the constant wind.  It should be a good area for a wind 
generator, but the wind energy companies were ran out by the developers. 
Due to the development and the need for more schools, etc, the taxes went 
from $500/yr to $3500/yr in the last 8 years


I hope no one thinks I am complaining, just saying how much of a challenge 
it is to farm in Central OKlahoma.   My paternal Grandfather traveled 
through this land as a traveling Wesleyan minister.  He said this land 
should have never been broken out of the native grass.  I would have to 
agree, when we applied 1 ton of chicken litter to the acre on the pasture, 
we had native Bluestem grass that grew to 6 ft in height.  It made 
excellent hay..  livestock will thrive on the pasture..


I retired to this land to farm and raise my sheep, but to make a living 
from this land, I have to develop it.  Which means I have to move 
somewhere and start over.


Thanks to you all for your help.

Cecil in OKla

Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS????

[Cecil Bearden]

Liz
I had not thought about the aflatoxins in the corn..

Cecil
- Original Message - 
From: "Liz Radi" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS


Gee, Cecil, I am so very, very sorry to hear of your loss.  And the 
problems with your land.
We lived in Az for 5 years, now that is a challenge, you have to purchase 
everything that goes into their mouths.
Now live in Colorado a little better, on the grasslands near the Pawnee 
National grasslands.  The land does not seem to be too good for much other 
than sustaining Pronghorn antelope.  That is why we are trying to find 
Katahdin hair sheep to raise here. Should do well on our grassland. Oh 
another thing, we get less rain here than we did in Benson Arizona.  I 
think under 15 inches.  The wind blows here like a banshee also.  We put 
pallets around our garden.
Maybe go to the county extension agents office  and ask for help on 
amending your soil, planting shelter belts and whatever else you need.  So 
expensive to move these days.
I wish that I lived closer to Oklahoma, I could help you with your 
vaccinating.

But, at least you still have your ewe, and can repeat the breeding.
I was just reading on the internet about aflatoxins in corn, since the 
drought in Iowa, the plants are stressed so could be a problem with that.
I was a RN for 23 years and I know how the role of care giver  can reek on 
one's body over time.

Liz Radi
Idar Alpacas and Nubian Goats
Nunn, Colorado 80648
970-716-7218
http://idaralpaca.blogspot.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Cecil Bearden" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help TETANUS


He died!  It did not present symptoms of selenium deficiency.  We are 
very high in selenium in this area.  The wate wells have been shut in due 
to selenium.  This was one of the prettiest and largest lambs for his age 
I have ever had.  I feed pellets for the nursing ewes as we are now in a 
drought and have had no wheat pasture for the last 30 days. Now we are in 
one of the worst winters, if the weatherman is right about what is 
coming.
I have lost only one lamb this season and I think it was butted.  This 
lamb appears to have eaten enough of the pellets to create enterotoxemia 
or tetanus.  Most of the symptoms are tetanus.
I did not get them vaccinated this year as I now need help to work with 
my animals.  I cannot walk on my right ankle due to some nerve problems. 
My back also will not allow me to stand longer than 30 minutes.  It 
appears all of these problems are due to the stress of caring for my 
invalid father who died in August 2010.


I lost 30 acres of oats (that would have made 4 bales to the acre) this 
year to a hailstorm.  The 160 acres I rented only produced 65 bales of 
oat hay due to a genetic problem with the seed.  It was sprayed and 
fertilized and after cutting the oats, the Johnson grass gew up and made 
350 bales of good hay, but no one wants to buy Johnson grass hay.  Last 
year I sold 250 bales to a local horse arena/training facility.  But 
after cutting their pasture and baling their 20 acres and losing $1000 on 
repair parts due to junk in the field, they decided to buy hay from a 
neighbor.


My regular 30 acres of wheat/ryegrass pasture gave out last month since 
we have not had any measureable precipitation since August 2010.  The oat 
hay I baled and they are now eating has a lot of grain as the oat plants 
headed out at only 9 inches of height.  So, there is not a lot of straw 
mostly leaves and grain.  It is so tender that the 1 week old lambs are 
eating it. It is great they are learning to eat so early, but it also 
presents problems with tetanus.   This has been one hell of a year.  I 
now see why the original settler of this farm started teaching school job 
2 years after the run of 89.  This is one of the worst farms areas in 
OKlahoma.   The farmland has been worn out, it is red clay that requires 
more fertilizer than you can imagine to produce. It was rented out for 20 
years to a farmer who was not very interested in peserving the land.
The land is one of the highest points in Canadian county, there is 
nothing to block the constant wind.  It should be a good area for a wind 
generator, but the wind energy companies were ran out by the developers. 
Due to the development and the need for more schools, etc, the taxes went 
from $500/yr to $3500/yr in the last 8 years


I hope no one thinks I am complaining, just saying how much of a 
challenge it is to farm in Central OKlahoma.   My paternal Grandfather 
traveled through this land as a traveling Wesleyan minister.  He said 
this land should have never been broken out of the native grass.  I would 
have to agree, when we applied 1 ton of chicken litter to the acre on the 
pasture, we had native Bluestem grass that grew to 6 ft in height.  It 
made excellent hay..  livestock will thrive on the pasture..


I ret

Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[Stephanie Jones]

Britt,
I wish I could be of some help to you, I feel for you!  But, I am
waiting to see what this group of smart folks say, as I seem to lose
many lambs between the ages of 3-6 months.  We've researched all of the
possible problems that we are aware of, to no luck.  For lack of any
other answer, we think we have some kind of a deficiency in our ground,
or that we need to be immunizing against some unknown. Therefore, only
the strongest of the lambs survive.  We have out mineral tubs, hay,
pasture, and grain them daily.  Yet, we still loose some for no apparent
reason.  They appear healthy one day, found dead in the lot the next
day.  I hope I'm not discouraging you, I don't mean too.  I'm just
hoping that we both may learn something!  :)  Good luck!!  ;)
Stephanie
- Original Message - 
From: "Britt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb


> Not sure what happened but my 6 month old ram lamb has just all of the
> sudden become very weak.


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Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[The Wintermutes]

Hi Britt,

This is what I do.  I don't know what your wormer is but try an injectable
wormer like Dectomax or Ivermectin.  And don't be afraid to give yet another
dose 3 days later!  I also give 2cc of vitamin B shots in two different
areas (4cc total).  Then I give 1 oz of Propylene Glycol morning and night
(this is an emergency food source).  Then give a shot of antibiotic
appropriate to weight no where near the sites of the vitamin B shots.  Make
sure the lamb is drinking.  If you suspect he is not drench some water into
him.  Try to keep him laying upright (normal position) even if you must prop
him up.  It is a good sign if he is willing to stand now and then!

I know this sounds drastic but it is what I must do when a lamb goes down
here.  If I catch it soon enough they will be alive the next day.  Sheep
don't like anyone to notice that they are weak.  To many times I have not
realized they were in trouble and lost the lamb.

If the lamb survives allow him free choice to grain and the best hay &
grass.  It will take several weeks for a full recovery.  Keep a watchful eye
for any relapse of health.

I am not familiar with Seminole Sweet grain.  Make sure there is no copper
in it.  Also make sure your lamb has free access to loose mineral salts &
vitamins.  If you have a Selenium deficiency in your area there is a shot
you can give that can give dramatic results.  I never done this maybe
someone else can give you guidance in this.

If you just recently had a freeze he may be suffering from Prussic Acid
poisoning.  I would give the lamb a shot of Banamine 1cc/100# if you suspect
any poisoning.  There may be a better solution for Prussic Poisoning.  I am
not an expert in this area.  See your vet.

Mark Wintermute 

  


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Britt
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:09 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

Not sure what happened but my 6 month old ram lamb has just all of the 
sudden become very weak. He didn't look noticably skinny but when I held him

I could feel his bones and he seemed much lighter. I've observed him eat and

drink daily. I took him inside and gave him some drench and more grain but 
he didn't eat that much. What else should I do to help him get back to full 
strength? He's been recently wormed and I feed all the sheep Seminole Sweet 
12 daily. Please help! 

Thanks,
Britt 
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Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[Britt]

I hope this won't be a trend for me also. If he survives I'll definately 
have to get him fixed. I've been keeping him inside since yesterday and you 
would think he was bottle fed. He follows me around when he's strong enough 
to walk and seems to enjoy my company. He has his own room with a constant 
supply of hay, grain, and water. I noticed that his stool was clumped 
together and mushy. What does that mean? 

Thanks,
Britt 

Stephanie Jones writes: 

> Britt,
> I wish I could be of some help to you, I feel for you!  But, I am
> waiting to see what this group of smart folks say, as I seem to lose
> many lambs between the ages of 3-6 months.  We've researched all of the
> possible problems that we are aware of, to no luck.  For lack of any
> other answer, we think we have some kind of a deficiency in our ground,
> or that we need to be immunizing against some unknown. Therefore, only
> the strongest of the lambs survive.  We have out mineral tubs, hay,
> pasture, and grain them daily.  Yet, we still loose some for no apparent
> reason.  They appear healthy one day, found dead in the lot the next
> day.  I hope I'm not discouraging you, I don't mean too.  I'm just
> hoping that we both may learn something!  :)  Good luck!!  ;)
> Stephanie
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Britt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:08 PM
> Subject: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb 
> 
> 
>> Not sure what happened but my 6 month old ram lamb has just all of the
>> sudden become very weak.
>  
> 
> ___
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Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[Britt]

Mark, 

Thank you for the wealth of information. Does the Ivermectin have to be 
injected?? Could I give it orally? 

The Wintermutes writes: 

> Hi Britt, 
> 
> This is what I do.  I don't know what your wormer is but try an injectable
> wormer like Dectomax or Ivermectin.  And don't be afraid to give yet another
> dose 3 days later!  I also give 2cc of vitamin B shots in two different
> areas (4cc total).  Then I give 1 oz of Propylene Glycol morning and night
> (this is an emergency food source).  Then give a shot of antibiotic
> appropriate to weight no where near the sites of the vitamin B shots.  Make
> sure the lamb is drinking.  If you suspect he is not drench some water into
> him.  Try to keep him laying upright (normal position) even if you must prop
> him up.  It is a good sign if he is willing to stand now and then! 
> 
> I know this sounds drastic but it is what I must do when a lamb goes down
> here.  If I catch it soon enough they will be alive the next day.  Sheep
> don't like anyone to notice that they are weak.  To many times I have not
> realized they were in trouble and lost the lamb. 
> 
> If the lamb survives allow him free choice to grain and the best hay &
> grass.  It will take several weeks for a full recovery.  Keep a watchful eye
> for any relapse of health. 
> 
> I am not familiar with Seminole Sweet grain.  Make sure there is no copper
> in it.  Also make sure your lamb has free access to loose mineral salts &
> vitamins.  If you have a Selenium deficiency in your area there is a shot
> you can give that can give dramatic results.  I never done this maybe
> someone else can give you guidance in this. 
> 
> If you just recently had a freeze he may be suffering from Prussic Acid
> poisoning.  I would give the lamb a shot of Banamine 1cc/100# if you suspect
> any poisoning.  There may be a better solution for Prussic Poisoning.  I am
> not an expert in this area.  See your vet. 
> 
> Mark Wintermute  
> 
>
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Britt
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:09 PM
> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> Subject: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb 
> 
> Not sure what happened but my 6 month old ram lamb has just all of the 
> sudden become very weak. He didn't look noticably skinny but when I held him 
> 
> I could feel his bones and he seemed much lighter. I've observed him eat and 
> 
> drink daily. I took him inside and gave him some drench and more grain but 
> he didn't eat that much. What else should I do to help him get back to full 
> strength? He's been recently wormed and I feed all the sheep Seminole Sweet 
> 12 daily. Please help!  
> 
> Thanks,
> Britt 
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> Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.in
> fo 
> 
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Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[The Wintermutes]

The injectable works faster IMO.

Sharon 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Britt
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:01 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

Mark, 

Thank you for the wealth of information. Does the Ivermectin have
to be 
injected?? Could I give it orally? 

The Wintermutes writes: 

> Hi Britt, 
> 
> This is what I do.  I don't know what your wormer is but try an
injectable
> wormer like Dectomax or Ivermectin.  And don't be afraid to
give yet another
> dose 3 days later!  I also give 2cc of vitamin B shots in two
different
> areas (4cc total).  Then I give 1 oz of Propylene Glycol
morning and night
> (this is an emergency food source).  Then give a shot of
antibiotic
> appropriate to weight no where near the sites of the vitamin B
shots.  Make
> sure the lamb is drinking.  If you suspect he is not drench
some water into
> him.  Try to keep him laying upright (normal position) even if
you must prop
> him up.  It is a good sign if he is willing to stand now and
then! 
> 
> I know this sounds drastic but it is what I must do when a lamb
goes down
> here.  If I catch it soon enough they will be alive the next
day.  Sheep
> don't like anyone to notice that they are weak.  To many times
I have not
> realized they were in trouble and lost the lamb. 
> 
> If the lamb survives allow him free choice to grain and the
best hay &
> grass.  It will take several weeks for a full recovery.  Keep a
watchful eye
> for any relapse of health. 
> 
> I am not familiar with Seminole Sweet grain.  Make sure there
is no copper
> in it.  Also make sure your lamb has free access to loose
mineral salts &
> vitamins.  If you have a Selenium deficiency in your area there
is a shot
> you can give that can give dramatic results.  I never done this
maybe
> someone else can give you guidance in this. 
> 
> If you just recently had a freeze he may be suffering from
Prussic Acid
> poisoning.  I would give the lamb a shot of Banamine 1cc/100#
if you suspect
> any poisoning.  There may be a better solution for Prussic
Poisoning.  I am
> not an expert in this area.  See your vet. 
> 
> Mark Wintermute  
> 
>
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Britt
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:09 PM
> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> Subject: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb 
> 
> Not sure what happened but my 6 month old ram lamb has just all
of the 
> sudden become very weak. He didn't look noticably skinny but
when I held him 
> 
> I could feel his bones and he seemed much lighter. I've
observed him eat and 
> 
> drink daily. I took him inside and gave him some drench and
more grain but 
> he didn't eat that much. What else should I do to help him get
back to full 
> strength? He's been recently wormed and I feed all the sheep
Seminole Sweet 
> 12 daily. Please help!  
> 
> Thanks,
> Britt 
> ___
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> Visit the list's homepage at
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
>
http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbe
llysheep.in
> fo 
> 
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blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
>
http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbe
llysheep.info
 
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Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[Julian Hale]

At 11:14 AM 10/25/2005, you wrote:
>The injectable works faster IMO.
>
>Sharon

Injectable has also been shown to have a longer residual effect, so 
you would have more time before having to do it again.  With 
Ivermectin, I believe the oral has almost no residual effect, while 
the injectable lasts ~10 days.

Julian

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Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[The Wintermutes]

If he is a good looking ram lamb don't be in a hurry to fix him.  He might
be just lonely.  And not all rams grow up to be mean.  Some do, some don't
but if he does turn mean he'll taste the same! :)  As long as food is going
in and poop is coming out he has a good chance of living!  Keep up the good
work.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Britt
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:54 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

I hope this won't be a trend for me also. If he survives I'll definately 
have to get him fixed. I've been keeping him inside since yesterday and you 
would think he was bottle fed. He follows me around when he's strong enough 
to walk and seems to enjoy my company. He has his own room with a constant 
supply of hay, grain, and water. I noticed that his stool was clumped 
together and mushy. What does that mean? 

Thanks,
Britt 


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Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

[The Wintermutes]

Don't give up on young lambs.  The period between receiving mom's immunity
from colostrum and the age where they have acquired their own immunity to
the parasites, and whatever else is in your environment, is their most
vulnerable period.  Just because they have a problem doesn't mean they won't
be hardy future sheep.  Anything from bad weather, diet, injuries,
environment or combinations of these can cause a healthy lamb to get sick.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Stephanie Jones
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:29 AM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb

Britt,
I wish I could be of some help to you, I feel for you!  But, I am
waiting to see what this group of smart folks say, as I seem to lose
many lambs between the ages of 3-6 months.  We've researched all of the
possible problems that we are aware of, to no luck.  For lack of any
other answer, we think we have some kind of a deficiency in our ground,
or that we need to be immunizing against some unknown. Therefore, only
the strongest of the lambs survive.  We have out mineral tubs, hay,
pasture, and grain them daily.  Yet, we still loose some for no apparent
reason.  They appear healthy one day, found dead in the lot the next
day.  I hope I'm not discouraging you, I don't mean too.  I'm just
hoping that we both may learn something!  :)  Good luck!!  ;)
Stephanie
- Original Message - 
From: "Britt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: [blackbelly] Help...weak lamb


> Not sure what happened but my 6 month old ram lamb has just all of the
> sudden become very weak.


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Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!

[David Kellough]

I'm so new to sheep that I can't answer this, but a c-section is what I 
think of. As long as they are ready to be born. Nancy and Tom had a 
c-section not that long ago with good results and might be able to help.
 I wish you the best of luck and hope it turns out well for you.


- Original Message - 
From: "Stephanie Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!


> OK ---I know there are some knowledgeable folk who can help & I need
> it!! I have a 130 lb ewe heavy with lamb.  I'm expecting twins just
> any day.  BUT, yesterday when I got home she was down with a broke leg.
> It is broke above the hop (knee) .  Called 2 vets and they both said to
> shot her.  She is soo close to lambing that I decided to wait and
> talk to you folks this morning.  I did give her some percocet pain
> pills--good or bad, because I hated to see her suffer. She seems to be
> able to get up and lay down. And she is eating some.My questions are
> this:
>
> 1--can she lamb with that leg broke?  (we are ready to bottle feed)
> 2--can the leg heal on it's own?  (I know animals in the wild do heal,
> usually ending up with a bum leg---but they are alive!)
> 3-- Do you folks think it can be set?
> 4-- Do you all think I should just shot her and relieve her from her
> suffering :(   ?
>
> You all are a good bunch of people and I know that somebody out there
> must have had this problem  ALL HELP APPRECIATED!!!
>
> Stephanie
>
>
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Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!

[hlang]

Looking now at your mail, there must be a feeding problem. In many thousand 
ewes and years, not one broken leg at our ranch.

Because of the pregnancy, calcium and as may some minerals have been taken 
out of the bones and
used by the embryos. Do you feed lime ?

Duck tape and a wooden stick, if it is the front leg, what I assume, it 
would heal  in the next three weeks, under condition that she gets the right 
kind of feed.
Conifers, herbs, but you have to be there when the lambs are born.

If you send me your phone number, Heidi gone talk with about how to do it

regards Helmut
- Original Message - 
From: "Stephanie Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!


> OK ---I know there are some knowledgeable folk who can help & I need
> it!! I have a 130 lb ewe heavy with lamb.  I'm expecting twins just
> any day.  BUT, yesterday when I got home she was down with a broke leg.
> It is broke above the hop (knee) .  Called 2 vets and they both said to
> shot her.  She is soo close to lambing that I decided to wait and
> talk to you folks this morning.  I did give her some percocet pain
> pills--good or bad, because I hated to see her suffer. She seems to be
> able to get up and lay down. And she is eating some.My questions are
> this:
>
> 1--can she lamb with that leg broke?  (we are ready to bottle feed)
> 2--can the leg heal on it's own?  (I know animals in the wild do heal,
> usually ending up with a bum leg---but they are alive!)
> 3-- Do you folks think it can be set?
> 4-- Do you all think I should just shot her and relieve her from her
> suffering :(   ?
>
> You all are a good bunch of people and I know that somebody out there
> must have had this problem  ALL HELP APPRECIATED!!!
>
> Stephanie
>
>
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> Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 
> 30/01/2006
>
> 

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Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!

[Stephanie Jones]

OK Mark,
Need some info-- Yes, she seems to want to make it.  :)  Did you split
your ewes hind leg?  If so , how?  Do you think I can give her anything
for pain?  I hate to see her hurting.  It is a complete fracture of the
hind leg above the hop, as you can see the bone gouging  the skin from
inside.  It did not break the skin though. I'm thankful for any thing
that you can do to help us out.  I do not feel we have a feeding problem
as Helmut suggested.  I confident that she broke her leg tryiing to
outrun a dog.  She probably cut-back to quickly and slipped  on the wet
ground (rain) because of her weight.

Stephanie
- Original Message - 
From: "The Wintermutes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!


> Hi Stephanie,
>
> I have had a ewe break a hind leg and lamb successfully.  Not only did
she
> lamb large twins but her leg eventually healed.  Now her broken leg
sounds
> similar but may have been very different from your ewe.  I suspect my
ewe
> broke her leg from jumping off a four foot drop off while heavily
pregnant.
>
> What I did was just made sure she was getting all the food and water
she
> needed since she could not compete with any of the other ewes.  I also
kept
> an eye out for infection.  I never used anti-biotic or Banamine but I
> certaintly was expecting to need it!  My ewe could hardly move and it
was
> painful to watch.  I kept expecting the worse, but she lambed, raised
her
> babies and eventually healed.  I would have a hard time picking her
out of
> the flock today.  I'm sure she has lambed again since she broke her
leg.
>
> My opinion is if she is trying to live (she does get up now and then &
is
> eating and drinking - give her a chance).  If she lies down
(especially on
> her side) and just stares she is giving up.  At this point consider
putting
> her down.  I have had a C-section done on a ewe successfully.  The
cost was
> more than the cost of buying a new ewe.  It also meant treating the
incision
> for over a month to fight off infection.  If the lambs are not totally
to
> term their survival rate is not going to be good.
>
> If the ewe is giving up but you are not...  Make sure she is laying up
> right.  Make sure she is eating and drinking.  You may have to drench
her
> with propylene glycol and water to keep her going.  Occasionally help
her to
> her feet and make her walk around (she needs movement).
>
> I'm praying for you!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!

[The Wintermutes]

Hi Stephanie,

I have had a ewe break a hind leg and lamb successfully.  Not only did she
lamb large twins but her leg eventually healed.  Now her broken leg sounds
similar but may have been very different from your ewe.  I suspect my ewe
broke her leg from jumping off a four foot drop off while heavily pregnant.

What I did was just made sure she was getting all the food and water she
needed since she could not compete with any of the other ewes.  I also kept
an eye out for infection.  I never used anti-biotic or Banamine but I
certaintly was expecting to need it!  My ewe could hardly move and it was
painful to watch.  I kept expecting the worse, but she lambed, raised her
babies and eventually healed.  I would have a hard time picking her out of
the flock today.  I'm sure she has lambed again since she broke her leg.

My opinion is if she is trying to live (she does get up now and then & is
eating and drinking - give her a chance).  If she lies down (especially on
her side) and just stares she is giving up.  At this point consider putting
her down.  I have had a C-section done on a ewe successfully.  The cost was
more than the cost of buying a new ewe.  It also meant treating the incision
for over a month to fight off infection.  If the lambs are not totally to
term their survival rate is not going to be good.

If the ewe is giving up but you are not...  Make sure she is laying up
right.  Make sure she is eating and drinking.  You may have to drench her
with propylene glycol and water to keep her going.  Occasionally help her to
her feet and make her walk around (she needs movement).

I'm praying for you!

Mark  





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Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!

[The Wintermutes]

Hi Stephanie,

I have splint lambs with success using PVC pipe and duck tape.  My ewe's leg
that was broke was up high in the thigh/flank area.  Her leg did an awkward
flop when she walked.  She pretty much did not use it to get around with
choosing to be three legged.  I had really planned on getting rid of her
after she lambed but she just kept getting the job done.

I have never splint an adult sheep.  Maybe others will be more
knowledgeable.
 
If I were to do it I would set the bone as straight as possible.  Put sticks
that are strong enough to support the ewe's weight on both sides and start
wrapping with duck tape.  The sticks need to extend just past the hoove so
the weight is supported above the break.  Don't expect her to use the leg
much at all.  You may have to help her up and down for a while.  Also, I
would revisit the splint frequently enough to know that the circulation and
such remains OK.  Feed her really well and keep her moving everyday.  I
would not give her pain killer unless she needs it to keep her moral up.
The pain will help remind her not to use the leg.  Hopefully she isn't a
"wild thing" and will remain calm allowing you to assist her recovery.  You
might want to hand feed her while she is hurt.  You will have a friend for
life with a little corn!  

I have seen some amazing healing by sheep.  

Mark

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Stephanie Jones
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:12 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!

OK Mark,
Need some info-- Yes, she seems to want to make it.  :)  Did you split
your ewes hind leg?  If so , how?  Do you think I can give her anything
for pain?  I hate to see her hurting.  It is a complete fracture of the
hind leg above the hop, as you can see the bone gouging  the skin from
inside.  It did not break the skin though. I'm thankful for any thing
that you can do to help us out.  I do not feel we have a feeding problem
as Helmut suggested.  I confident that she broke her leg tryiing to
outrun a dog.  She probably cut-back to quickly and slipped  on the wet
ground (rain) because of her weight.

Stephanie
- Original Message - 
From: "The Wintermutes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!


 

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Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!

[Stephanie Parrish]

Hi Stephanie,

I believe the leg can be splinted and that will make the ewe more  
comfortable because it will reduce movement near the fracture  
(painful!), and the bones will set better that way, as well.  If you  
can splint it, I wouldn't use pain medication because of the effect it  
might have on the lambs.

Too bad you have such useless vets out there!  You might try calling a  
small animal vet, if you haven't yet - they have splints made for the  
back legs of dogs, which are pretty much the same shape as those of  
sheep, and one of these  might work well.  Or you can use a stick as  
Helmut wrote, or some thick aluminum wire that you can bend into the  
proper shape. You want something relatively flat that will sit nicely  
against the leg, so I don't like PVC pipe for that reason.

There are some principles you'll need to know if you've never done this  
before - I would take Helmut up on his offer to call him for  
instructions.  Several things that are important are:

1) use some roll cotton or other material as padding on the leg,  
between the leg and splint so that the splint doesn't gouge the skin.  
If the skin opens up and exposes the broken bone to the outside, you  
may have big problems with infection.  If the skin stays closed,  
infection is not a problem.

2) put the splint on the outside of the leg (opposite side of the udder)

3) the splint must go from just below the hoof (so the ewe bears weight  
on the splint, not the hoof) to just past the joint above the fracture.  
I'm not sure from what you've written exactly where the break is - do  
you mean it is above the hock(?) which is the joint that sticks out  
toward the back of the animal? If so, then you want your splint to  go  
up above the knee, which is the joint above the hock that points to the  
front of the animal.  If the break is truly above the knee, then your  
splint needs to go to the hip.

Call Helmut!

Good luck,
SP

On Jan 31, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Stephanie Jones wrote:

> OK ---I know there are some knowledgeable folk who can help & I need
> it!! I have a 130 lb ewe heavy with lamb.  I'm expecting twins just
> any day.  BUT, yesterday when I got home she was down with a broke leg.
> It is broke above the hop (knee) .  Called 2 vets and they both said to
> shot her.  She is soo close to lambing that I decided to wait and
> talk to you folks this morning.  I did give her some percocet pain
> pills--good or bad, because I hated to see her suffer. She seems to be
> able to get up and lay down. And she is eating some.My questions  
> are
> this:
>
> 1--can she lamb with that leg broke?  (we are ready to bottle feed)
> 2--can the leg heal on it's own?  (I know animals in the wild do heal,
> usually ending up with a bum leg---but they are alive!)
> 3-- Do you folks think it can be set?
> 4-- Do you all think I should just shot her and relieve her from her
> suffering :(   ?
>
> You all are a good bunch of people and I know that somebody out there
> must have had this problem  ALL HELP APPRECIATED!!!
>
> Stephanie
>
>
> ___
> This message is from the blackbelly mailing list
> Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly- 
> blackbellysheep.info
>

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Re: [blackbelly] HELP! Rejected lamb

[Cecil Bearden]

Tie mama where she can eat and drink, but not get back to butt the lamb.  If 
she is really agressive, you might remove the lamb from the pen for the 
first day but only as a last resort.  You must get the lamb to nurse her for 
at least 48 hours.  When the milk goes thru her system, her feces will smell 
natural to mama and she should accept it.  I have also used urine from the 
ewe to make her take it.  Some will take more than 2 days.  A pritchard teat 
is the only nipple I have found that will work on lambs.  If I have a 
stressed newborn I put it in a styrofoam ice chest on a towel to keep it 
warm..  A small light bulb will keep it just fine...

Now..   If you get this lamb raised on this ewe, SELL MAMA...
She will be a pain again next lambing..
Just my experience and my $0.02
Cecil Bearden
Piedmont, OK
- Original Message - 
From: "Dayna Denmark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:30 PM
Subject: [blackbelly] HELP! Rejected lamb


>
> I really need all of your help and/or experience on bottle feeding a baby.
> She was born yesterday, probably weighs all of 2 pounds, and for whatever
> reason mom has rejected her. I moved her up to the house this afternoon. 
> She
> is in a box in the bathtub. After many tries my husband and I got her to
> accept the bottle. Is there a trick to getting them to accept it? I think 
> we
> only got lucky because she was trying to nurse on my neck. I luckily 
> ordered
> the lambing kit from Pipestone vetinary supply so I have milk replacer,
> nipples, tubing, etc.
> For those of you raising bottle babies where/ how do you keep them? Do you
> try and leave baby with mom at all? Any of you try tying mom so she can't
> reject?
> Any help on how to do this would really be appreciated.
> Dayna
>
>
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help for prolapse

[Nancy & Tom Richardson]

Well I wouldn't have believed it but had my vet tell me this secret. A girl 
just started with prolapse about the size of a base ball. Put Karo syrup on 
it. about an hour later all gone! Now 2 days later still gone. She hasn't 
lambed yet but is as big as a house!  I am putting this in my diary for 
future reference. I think the sugar in it helps take out the swelling. At 
least that is what an old time cattle farmer I talked to today said. HE does 
it on cows! Nancy 


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Re: [Blackbelly] Help for prolapse

[cecil bearden]

Sugar also works very well.  It drains the water from the tissues.  It works 
for all types of prolapses..


Cecil in OKla
- Original Message - 
From: "Nancy & Tom Richardson" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help for prolapse


Well I wouldn't have believed it but had my vet tell me this secret. A 
girl just started with prolapse about the size of a base ball. Put Karo 
syrup on it. about an hour later all gone! Now 2 days later still gone. 
She hasn't lambed yet but is as big as a house!  I am putting this in my 
diary for future reference. I think the sugar in it helps take out the 
swelling. At least that is what an old time cattle farmer I talked to 
today said. HE does it on cows! Nancy

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Re: [Blackbelly] Help for prolapse

[Julian Hale]

At 03:19 PM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>Well I wouldn't have believed it but had my vet tell me this secret. A girl 
>just started with prolapse about the size of a base ball. Put Karo syrup on 
>it. about an hour later all gone! Now 2 days later still gone. She hasn't 
>lambed yet but is as big as a house!  I am putting this in my diary for future 
>reference. I think the sugar in it helps take out the swelling. At least that 
>is what an old time cattle farmer I talked to today said. HE does it on cows! 
>Nancy 

A prolapse is often a sign of selenium deficiency... it would be a good idea to 
give her some selenium gel or something similar.  BoSe works, too, but the 
potential for overdose is much higher, so be careful.  Oral is always the best 
route for selenium.

Julian 

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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Michael Smith]

If you can get the ewe to hang in a VERY small pen with the babies, I
bet, within a few hours, she will start feeding them.

http://web.me.com/mwsmith100/spring_2010/Angie.html

But watch to see if she's being violent, and kicking them.


_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.



On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Tom Quinn  wrote:
> Hi All
>
> One of our young ewes just had twins.  She is not accepting them and seems
> to have no milk
>
> I just cleaned them up and bottle fed them once with Advance all species
> formula--thats all I could find right now.
>
> I need suggestions bad!  How often to feed?  How much per feeding?  How
> long?
>
> This is our first crop of lambs
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Quinn
>
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Tom Quinn]

Michael

I put the 3 of them in a really small pen, but she was butting the lambs out
of the way, and it was getting dark.

I will keep them in the house tonight, and try again in the morning

-Original Message-
From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
[mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info]on Behalf Of
Michael Smith
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:47 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding


If you can get the ewe to hang in a VERY small pen with the babies, I
bet, within a few hours, she will start feeding them.

http://web.me.com/mwsmith100/spring_2010/Angie.html

But watch to see if she's being violent, and kicking them.


_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.



On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Tom Quinn  wrote:
> Hi All
>
> One of our young ewes just had twins.  She is not accepting them and seems
> to have no milk
>
> I just cleaned them up and bottle fed them once with Advance all species
> formula--thats all I could find right now.
>
> I need suggestions bad!  How often to feed?  How much per feeding?  How
> long?
>
> This is our first crop of lambs
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Quinn
>
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Nancy & Tom Richardson]

They need colostrum or they won't make it. Mana Pro makes a multi species 
one. But that may be what you fed if so that is great.  I feed about 2 
ounces if they will take it every 2 hours for the first 12 then more if they 
will take it and 4 every 4 hours for the next 12 if they will take that 
much. Some take more first then slack off. They will usually fall into a 
deep sleep after the first couple of feedings and you will think they are 
dead almost but when their bellies are really full they sleep sound. If the 
ewe is butting them now she will not take them from my experience. She will 
just end up hurting them. Good luck. I raised over 30 babies this spring not 
all from birth but alot of them we raise several kinds of sheep and I sell 
alot of bottle babies. Make sure you cuddle them and talk and stroke them 
this seems to stimulate them and make them excited to feed . also wipe their 
little bottoms with a damp cloth this imitates mom cleaning and helps them 
pass the black poo  etc  Nancy
- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Quinn" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 22:27
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding



Michael

I put the 3 of them in a really small pen, but she was butting the lambs 
out

of the way, and it was getting dark.

I will keep them in the house tonight, and try again in the morning

-Original Message-
From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
[mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info]on Behalf Of
Michael Smith
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:47 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding


If you can get the ewe to hang in a VERY small pen with the babies, I
bet, within a few hours, she will start feeding them.

http://web.me.com/mwsmith100/spring_2010/Angie.html

But watch to see if she's being violent, and kicking them.


_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.



On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Tom Quinn  wrote:

Hi All

One of our young ewes just had twins. She is not accepting them and seems
to have no milk

I just cleaned them up and bottle fed them once with Advance all species
formula--thats all I could find right now.

I need suggestions bad! How often to feed? How much per feeding? How
long?

This is our first crop of lambs

Thanks

Tom Quinn

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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Michael Smith]

first time mom?

if you plan to feed them, I would do it 4  times a day to start.
there's a ratio of their body weight to oz. of milk to give them.

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/artificialfeeding.html

http://ars.sdstate.edu/lvstk_educate/Sheep_Management/BABY_LAMB_CARE_PROTOCOL23.htm

(unless you milked the mother within the first several hours of birth,
you likely do not have colostrum to give. Colostrum replacer
formula/mixes are not the same thing, so save your money.)

past this, it's up to the more experienced breeders to clue you in.

I have had luck raising a group of bottle-babies last year, they did
have mother's milk for 5 weeks, then us feeding them, but we were
mixing goats' milk from the store-- with powdered formula mixed with
water to it's proper ratio.

They still got scours like, every 10 days or so, and it would take 5
days of treating them to get it to go away. I think it was just the
formula to blame, and the big feedings, rather than the normal little
natural gulps all day they would get from their mother.

This year had 5 naturally-raised lambs and not one bit, not ONE little
bit of scours.

_MWS



On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Tom Quinn  wrote:
> Michael
>
> I put the 3 of them in a really small pen, but she was butting the lambs out
> of the way, and it was getting dark.
>
> I will keep them in the house tonight, and try again in the morning
>
> -Original Message-
> From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info]on Behalf Of
> Michael Smith
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:47 PM
> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding
>
>
> If you can get the ewe to hang in a VERY small pen with the babies, I
> bet, within a few hours, she will start feeding them.
>
> http://web.me.com/mwsmith100/spring_2010/Angie.html
>
> But watch to see if she's being violent, and kicking them.
>
>
> _Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Tom Quinn  wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> One of our young ewes just had twins.  She is not accepting them and seems
>> to have no milk
>>
>> I just cleaned them up and bottle fed them once with Advance all species
>> formula--thats all I could find right now.
>>
>> I need suggestions bad!  How often to feed?  How much per feeding?  How
>> long?
>>
>> This is our first crop of lambs
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom Quinn
>>
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>>
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Tom Quinn]

I dont have any colostrum.  All of this happened after the feed stores were
closed.
I can probably find some tomowrrow-- or is that too late?

-Original Message-
From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
[mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info]on Behalf Of Nancy
& Tom Richardson
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:47 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding


They need colostrum or they won't make it. Mana Pro makes a multi species
one. But that may be what you fed if so that is great.  I feed about 2
ounces if they will take it every 2 hours for the first 12 then more if they
will take it and 4 every 4 hours for the next 12 if they will take that
much. Some take more first then slack off. They will usually fall into a
deep sleep after the first couple of feedings and you will think they are
dead almost but when their bellies are really full they sleep sound. If the
ewe is butting them now she will not take them from my experience. She will
just end up hurting them. Good luck. I raised over 30 babies this spring not
all from birth but alot of them we raise several kinds of sheep and I sell
alot of bottle babies. Make sure you cuddle them and talk and stroke them
this seems to stimulate them and make them excited to feed . also wipe their
little bottoms with a damp cloth this imitates mom cleaning and helps them
pass the black poo  etc  Nancy
- Original Message -
From: "Tom Quinn" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 22:27
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding


> Michael
>
> I put the 3 of them in a really small pen, but she was butting the lambs
> out
> of the way, and it was getting dark.
>
> I will keep them in the house tonight, and try again in the morning
>
> -Original Message-
> From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info]on Behalf Of
> Michael Smith
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:47 PM
> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding
>
>
> If you can get the ewe to hang in a VERY small pen with the babies, I
> bet, within a few hours, she will start feeding them.
>
> http://web.me.com/mwsmith100/spring_2010/Angie.html
>
> But watch to see if she's being violent, and kicking them.
>
>
> _Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Tom Quinn  wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> One of our young ewes just had twins. She is not accepting them and seems
>> to have no milk
>>
>> I just cleaned them up and bottle fed them once with Advance all species
>> formula--thats all I could find right now.
>>
>> I need suggestions bad! How often to feed? How much per feeding? How
>> long?
>>
>> This is our first crop of lambs
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom Quinn
>>
>> ___
>> This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list
>> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
>>
> ___
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>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Carol Elkins]

Tom, do everything you possibly can to milk colostrum from the ewe. 
Put her in a stanchion to hold her still. You may not get a lot, but 
every bit is important. Measure what you do get and divide it into 
two parts, one for each lamb. Do this as often as you can to get as 
much colostrum as you can from her. If she has any milk in her bag, 
you might try letting the lambs nurse. I stanchioned a ewe three 
times a day for 3 weeks and she finally accepted the lamb. (I bottle 
fed him to supplement what he was getting from the ewe.)


Read the article I wrote about Raising Bummer Lambs on a Bottle at 
http://critterhaven.biz/info/articles/bummer_lamb.htm It contains a 
recipe for a newborn milk formula to use if you have no colostrum. It 
also provides a schedule and a formula for feeding amounts. Cecil 
will caution you to not feed as much as the article recommends per 
feeding and I agree; but it is a place to start.


Carol

At 09:58 PM 8/2/2010, you wrote:

I dont have any colostrum.  All of this happened after the feed stores were
closed.
I can probably find some tomowrrow-- or is that too late?


Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Michael Smith]

Tom, also those teets are small, and you may want to try this, for
milking, if you have a larger syringe around.

http://www.tvsp.org/sheep_milker.html

don't forget to bump upwards on the bag a few times to get it to let
down, before you try this.

_MWS

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Carol Elkins  wrote:
> Tom, do everything you possibly can to milk colostrum from the ewe. Put her
> in a stanchion to hold her still. You may not get a lot, but every bit is
> important. Measure what you do get and divide it into two parts, one for
> each lamb. Do this as often as you can to get as much colostrum as you can
> from her. If she has any milk in her bag, you might try letting the lambs
> nurse. I stanchioned a ewe three times a day for 3 weeks and she finally
> accepted the lamb. (I bottle fed him to supplement what he was getting from
> the ewe.)
>
> Read the article I wrote about Raising Bummer Lambs on a Bottle at
> http://critterhaven.biz/info/articles/bummer_lamb.htm It contains a recipe
> for a newborn milk formula to use if you have no colostrum. It also provides
> a schedule and a formula for feeding amounts. Cecil will caution you to not
> feed as much as the article recommends per feeding and I agree; but it is a
> place to start.
>
> Carol
>
> At 09:58 PM 8/2/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> I dont have any colostrum.  All of this happened after the feed stores
>> were
>> closed.
>> I can probably find some tomowrrow-- or is that too late?
>
> Carol Elkins
> Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
> (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
> Pueblo, Colorado
> http://www.critterhaven.biz
>
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>
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Dave Andrus]

Tom, are you sure she does not have any milk? We had a ewe that bagged up, had 
her twins but would not let them nurse. IT turns out it must have hurt her when 
the lambs tried to nurse to the point she would walk away. What I did is hold 
her against the wall in the jug while helping the lambs to nurse every two 
hours around the clock. She finally started letting the lambs nurse willingly 
after two days. My suggestion would be don't give up on getting them to nurse 
untill you are sure she has no milk. If she bagged up my guess is she has milk. 
As far as quantities for bottle feeding there is a ton of info if you Google 
bottle feeding lambs.  I am not a real experianced shepherd but all the 
research I did when we were going through our ordeal I formed the opinion that 
if a ewe did not "violently" reject a Lamb chances are she could let them nurse 
if she has the milk. Dave 

Tom Quinn  wrote:

>Hi All
>
>One of our young ewes just had twins.  She is not accepting them and seems
>to have no milk
>
>I just cleaned them up and bottle fed them once with Advance all species
>formula--thats all I could find right now.
>
>I need suggestions bad!  How often to feed?  How much per feeding?  How
>long?
>
>This is our first crop of lambs
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom Quinn
>
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>
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Cecil Bearden]

20 to 30 cc will be fine per feeding and I would only do this for about 
every 4 hours.  As Carol said you can overfeed.  Pay close attention as to 
how tight the belly is.  If you will tie her head where she cannot butt the 
lambs and let them try to suck, it may work.  It will take 3 days.  Be sure 
you have the right ewe.  I know this sounds funny but it happens.  make sure 
she is butting both.  If not you may have another ewe that has lambed.  The 
stomach accepts colustrum for 24 hours.   I have used old mentholatum on the 
ewe's nose and down the backs of the lambs and it confuses mama into 
thinking they smell like her.


Cecil in OKla
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Smith" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding


Tom, also those teets are small, and you may want to try this, for
milking, if you have a larger syringe around.

http://www.tvsp.org/sheep_milker.html

don't forget to bump upwards on the bag a few times to get it to let
down, before you try this.

_MWS

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Carol Elkins  
wrote:
Tom, do everything you possibly can to milk colostrum from the ewe. Put 
her

in a stanchion to hold her still. You may not get a lot, but every bit is
important. Measure what you do get and divide it into two parts, one for
each lamb. Do this as often as you can to get as much colostrum as you can
from her. If she has any milk in her bag, you might try letting the lambs
nurse. I stanchioned a ewe three times a day for 3 weeks and she finally
accepted the lamb. (I bottle fed him to supplement what he was getting 
from

the ewe.)

Read the article I wrote about Raising Bummer Lambs on a Bottle at
http://critterhaven.biz/info/articles/bummer_lamb.htm It contains a recipe
for a newborn milk formula to use if you have no colostrum. It also 
provides
a schedule and a formula for feeding amounts. Cecil will caution you to 
not
feed as much as the article recommends per feeding and I agree; but it is 
a

place to start.

Carol

At 09:58 PM 8/2/2010, you wrote:


I dont have any colostrum. All of this happened after the feed stores
were
closed.
I can probably find some tomowrrow-- or is that too late?


Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Tom Quinn]

I worked on the ewe for a couple of hours, and got nothing.  She has no bag at 
all.  It sounded like she was letting down milk, but nothing.  That and the 
fact 
that she was butting the lambs away, led us to decide to get them warm and try 
to bottle feed tonight.  These little guys dont weigh much more than one pound 
each.  I will just have to see if we get them through the night, then brew up 
some colostrum replacer, and see if we can get anything from the ewe.



- Original Message 
From: Carol Elkins 
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 10:10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

Tom, do everything you possibly can to milk colostrum from the ewe. Put her in 
a 
stanchion to hold her still. You may not get a lot, but every bit is important. 
Measure what you do get and divide it into two parts, one for each lamb. Do 
this 
as often as you can to get as much colostrum as you can from her. If she has 
any 
milk in her bag, you might try letting the lambs nurse. I stanchioned a ewe 
three times a day for 3 weeks and she finally accepted the lamb. (I bottle fed 
him to supplement what he was getting from the ewe.)

Read the article I wrote about Raising Bummer Lambs on a Bottle at 
http://critterhaven.biz/info/articles/bummer_lamb.htm It contains a recipe for 
a 
newborn milk formula to use if you have no colostrum. It also provides a 
schedule and a formula for feeding amounts. Cecil will caution you to not feed 
as much as the article recommends per feeding and I agree; but it is a place to 
start.

Carol

At 09:58 PM 8/2/2010, you wrote:
> I dont have any colostrum.  All of this happened after the feed stores were
> closed.
> I can probably find some tomowrrow-- or is that too late?

Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Cecil Bearden]

Tom Quinn wrote:
I worked on the ewe for a couple of hours, and got nothing.  She has no bag at 
all.  It sounded like she was letting down milk, but nothing.  That and the fact 
that she was butting the lambs away, led us to decide to get them warm and try 
to bottle feed tonight.  These little guys dont weigh much more than one pound 
each.  I will just have to see if we get them through the night, then brew up 
some colostrum replacer, and see if we can get anything from the ewe.




- Original Message 
From: Carol Elkins 
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 10:10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

Tom, do everything you possibly can to milk colostrum from the ewe. Put her in a 
stanchion to hold her still. You may not get a lot, but every bit is important. 
Measure what you do get and divide it into two parts, one for each lamb. Do this 
as often as you can to get as much colostrum as you can from her. If she has any 
milk in her bag, you might try letting the lambs nurse. I stanchioned a ewe 
three times a day for 3 weeks and she finally accepted the lamb. (I bottle fed 
him to supplement what he was getting from the ewe.)


Read the article I wrote about Raising Bummer Lambs on a Bottle at 
http://critterhaven.biz/info/articles/bummer_lamb.htm It contains a recipe for a 
newborn milk formula to use if you have no colostrum. It also provides a 
schedule and a formula for feeding amounts. Cecil will caution you to not feed 
as much as the article recommends per feeding and I agree; but it is a place to 
start.


Carol

At 09:58 PM 8/2/2010, you wrote:
  

I dont have any colostrum.  All of this happened after the feed stores were
closed.
I can probably find some tomowrrow-- or is that too late?



Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Sounds like they were premature.  You can wrap them in a towel, get a 
baby diaper and cut a hole for the tail.  Keep them next to you when you 
go to bed.  They need to hear a heartbeat nearby, they have been next to 
one for 5 months...  Find some colostrum replacer asap.  Be sparing on 
the feeding, they will tell you when they are hungry.  If they are 
peeing about every 1-2 hours they are getting enough.  The first 24 ours 
is when they hydrate and expand.  Remember they can aspirate easily so 
keep their heads up. and do not let them lay on their side.

Cecil in OKla
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

[Nancy & Tom Richardson]

I agree with Cecil. I normally sleep with my new babies for the first night 
or 2. I didn't realize they were so small when I told you about the feeding 
amounts. On ones this small I feel lucky when I get a half ounce down them 
every 2 hours at first. I use a pet nurser bottle and the longest nipple but 
cut it back to about an inch long maybe shorter. It  just depends on the 
baby. Please let us know how they are dong. Nancy
- Original Message - 
From: "Cecil Bearden" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 06:12
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding



Tom Quinn wrote:
I worked on the ewe for a couple of hours, and got nothing.  She has no 
bag at all.  It sounded like she was letting down milk, but nothing. 
That and the fact that she was butting the lambs away, led us to decide 
to get them warm and try to bottle feed tonight.  These little guys dont 
weigh much more than one pound each.  I will just have to see if we get 
them through the night, then brew up some colostrum replacer, and see if 
we can get anything from the ewe.




- Original Message 
From: Carol Elkins 
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 10:10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding

Tom, do everything you possibly can to milk colostrum from the ewe. Put 
her in a stanchion to hold her still. You may not get a lot, but every 
bit is important. Measure what you do get and divide it into two parts, 
one for each lamb. Do this as often as you can to get as much colostrum 
as you can from her. If she has any milk in her bag, you might try 
letting the lambs nurse. I stanchioned a ewe three times a day for 3 
weeks and she finally accepted the lamb. (I bottle fed him to supplement 
what he was getting from the ewe.)


Read the article I wrote about Raising Bummer Lambs on a Bottle at 
http://critterhaven.biz/info/articles/bummer_lamb.htm It contains a 
recipe for a newborn milk formula to use if you have no colostrum. It 
also provides a schedule and a formula for feeding amounts. Cecil will 
caution you to not feed as much as the article recommends per feeding and 
I agree; but it is a place to start.


Carol

At 09:58 PM 8/2/2010, you wrote:

I dont have any colostrum.  All of this happened after the feed stores 
were

closed.
I can probably find some tomowrrow-- or is that too late?



Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Sounds like they were premature.  You can wrap them in a towel, get a baby 
diaper and cut a hole for the tail.  Keep them next to you when you go to 
bed.  They need to hear a heartbeat nearby, they have been next to one for 
5 months...  Find some colostrum replacer asap.  Be sparing on the 
feeding, they will tell you when they are hungry.  If they are peeing 
about every 1-2 hours they are getting enough.  The first 24 ours is when 
they hydrate and expand.  Remember they can aspirate easily so keep their 
heads up. and do not let them lay on their side.

Cecil in OKla
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