Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

Florian Effenberger wrote on 2011-08-12 11:02:

if we do so, are there any objections to my proposed trademark policy
change? Here it is again for convenience:


the changes are now in effect.

Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Michael Meeks wrote on 2011-08-16 16:16:

So - FWIW, IMHO all of this is a bit over complicated; the more text we
add the weaker the policy. I would personally rather prefer to subset
our TM policy to the name 'LibreOffice' and the associated marks; and
then have some other blurb about when using the TDF mark is allowable -
which could be much looser, and separate.

OTOH, this is an improvement I guess.


that might make sense. To proceed, I propose I now incorporate the 
changes if nobody objects by tomorrow, and we then still can work on a 
new version in the near future.


So, if anyone vetoes to my latest draft 
(http://www.mail-archive.com/steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg01443.html), 
please let me know by tomorrow, otherwise I will publish it in the wiki, 
thus modifying our official trademark policy.


Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Michael Meeks]

On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 11:02 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> if we do so, are there any objections to my proposed trademark policy 
> change? Here it is again for convenience:

So - FWIW, IMHO all of this is a bit over complicated; the more text we
add the weaker the policy. I would personally rather prefer to subset
our TM policy to the name 'LibreOffice' and the associated marks; and
then have some other blurb about when using the TDF mark is allowable -
which could be much looser, and separate.

OTOH, this is an improvement I guess.

ATB,

Michael.

-- 
 michael.me...@novell.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot



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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Simon Phipps]

On 12 Aug 2011, at 10:02, Florian Effenberger wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Caolan McNamara wrote on 2011-08-11 12:26:
>> Alright, swap the logos, default to non TDF one.
> 
> if we do so, are there any objections to my proposed trademark policy change? 
> Here it is again for convenience:
> 
> old version:
> ==
> Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither 
> abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of 
> acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are please 
> inquire on our lists. Only the logos that bear the exact mention of the 
> software name with the mention “The Document Foundation” are reserved for the 
> sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash screens 
> from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or DVD labels 
> officially stemming from the Document Foundation. You may not use this set of 
> logos but only the logos bearing the software name without the Document 
> Foundation's mention.
> ==
> 
> new version:
> ==
> Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither 
> abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of 
> acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are please 
> inquire on our lists. The logos that bear the exact mention of the software 
> name with the mention "The Document Foundation" are reserved for two purposes:
> 
> * the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash 
> screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on 
> official materials from the legal entity itself
> 
> * the use within the Projects of the Community - like documentation, 
> marketing or website - when the respective work is prepared and coordinated 
> openly and transparently, on the appropriate communication channels, 
> following the Foundation's and Community's principles
> 
> /Example: A publisher working on a documentation with a few selected 
> community members is not eligible for use of logos with the mention "The 
> Document Foundation", whereas the documentation team itself may freely use it 
> for any project that is coordinated on its mailing lists.
> 
> You may not use this set of logos for other than the above purposes, but only 
> the logos bearing the software name without the Document Foundation's mention.
> ==


I think this is the correct approach and believe that it will avoid the 
problems that led to the IceWeasel fork of Firefox.

S.


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Paulo de Souza Lima]

It seems very fine to me!!! Great work!!!

2011/8/12 Florian Effenberger 

> Hi,
>
> Caolan McNamara wrote on 2011-08-11 12:26:
>
>> Alright, swap the logos, default to non TDF one.
>>
>
> if we do so, are there any objections to my proposed trademark policy
> change? Here it is again for convenience:
>
> old version:
> ==
> Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither
> abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of
> acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are please
> inquire on our lists. Only the logos that bear the exact mention of the
> software name with the mention “The Document Foundation” are reserved for
> the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash
> screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or DVD
> labels officially stemming from the Document Foundation. You may not use
> this set of logos but only the logos bearing the software name without the
> Document Foundation's mention.
> ==
>
> new version:
> ==
> Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither
> abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of
> acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are please
> inquire on our lists. The logos that bear the exact mention of the software
> name with the mention "The Document Foundation" are reserved for two
> purposes:
>
> * the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash
> screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on
> official materials from the legal entity itself
>
> * the use within the Projects of the Community - like documentation,
> marketing or website - when the respective work is prepared and coordinated
> openly and transparently, on the appropriate communication channels,
> following the Foundation's and Community's principles
>
> /Example: A publisher working on a documentation with a few selected
> community members is not eligible for use of logos with the mention "The
> Document Foundation", whereas the documentation team itself may freely use
> it for any project that is coordinated on its mailing lists.
>
> You may not use this set of logos for other than the above purposes, but
> only the logos bearing the software name without the Document Foundation's
> mention.
> ==
>
> Florian
>
> --
> Florian Effenberger 
> Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
> Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
> Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Caolan McNamara wrote on 2011-08-11 12:26:

Alright, swap the logos, default to non TDF one.


if we do so, are there any objections to my proposed trademark policy 
change? Here it is again for convenience:


old version:
==
Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither 
abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of 
acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are 
please inquire on our lists. Only the logos that bear the exact mention 
of the software name with the mention “The Document Foundation” are 
reserved for the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance 
on splash screens from software builds compiled by the Document 
Foundation or DVD labels officially stemming from the Document 
Foundation. You may not use this set of logos but only the logos bearing 
the software name without the Document Foundation's mention.

==

new version:
==
Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither 
abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of 
acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are 
please inquire on our lists. The logos that bear the exact mention of 
the software name with the mention "The Document Foundation" are 
reserved for two purposes:


* the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash 
screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on 
official materials from the legal entity itself


* the use within the Projects of the Community - like documentation, 
marketing or website - when the respective work is prepared and 
coordinated openly and transparently, on the appropriate communication 
channels, following the Foundation's and Community's principles


/Example: A publisher working on a documentation with a few selected 
community members is not eligible for use of logos with the mention "The 
Document Foundation", whereas the documentation team itself may freely 
use it for any project that is coordinated on its mailing lists.


You may not use this set of logos for other than the above purposes, but 
only the logos bearing the software name without the Document 
Foundation's mention.

==

Florian

--
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Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
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off-list Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Thanks for jumping in there :)  I hoped there were other people from Branding 
around or at least other people that might have some vague idea about the 
issues.  


It's ok for the rest of us to guess but it's better to have the right answers 
from the right people because there is a strong chance of the rest of us 
getting 
it wrong and falling into 'obvious' traps.  Italo was the only name i knew for 
certain.  

Thanks and regards from
Tom :)





From: Christoph Noack 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Thu, 11 August, 2011 7:08:01
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

Hi Tom, all!

A quick note ... mis-using the steering-discuss being an SC deputy.

Am Mittwoch, den 10.08.2011, 10:35 +0100 schrieb Tom Davies:
> Sounds good to me but i'm curious about the Branding Team's thoughts on this. 
>  

> Italo?

I'm not Italo, but I'm one of those who (with Bernhard, Nik, Ivan, ...)
developed the today's branding. Personally, I would be happy if we could
ship the non-tagline logo - and add the tagline on demand. This will
make things more simple and even more visually attractive.

When we worked on the motif design, Nik already made a draft how this
could look like:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/b/b3/ScatterInContext_bunch.jpg


So +1 to the proposal.

One thing that - then - needs to be addressed is the todays tagline
logo. Later this year, I'd like to propose a small revision to make
non-tagline and tagline logo more consistent.

Cheers,
Christoph


> From: Florian Effenberger 
> To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Sent: Wed, 10 August, 2011 9:25:05
> Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-08 13:17:
> > ... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least this
> > was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should
> > be used for "instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document
> > Foundation".
> > 
> > Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for builds
> > from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell people
> > to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
> > via TDF resources.
> 
> that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Caolan McNamara]

On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 14:31 +0200, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> Caolan McNamara wrote:
> > > > Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for 
> > > > builds
> > > > from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell 
> > > > people
> > > > to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
> > > > via TDF resources.
> > > 
> > > that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?
> > 
> > Its the logical conclusion. Do we think this is a desirable thing
> > however ? rather than a corner the rules paint us into that force
> > maintainable of duplicate logos, etc.
> > 
> It makes the whole thing much more consistent, therefore it makes a
> lot of sense to me.
> 
> The tm rule then boils down to: stuff from the official tdf/libo
> website - TDF mark permitted. Stuff from elsewhere: TDF mark not
> permitted, unless permission explicitely granted.

Alright, swap the logos, default to non TDF one.

a) The current with TDF logos are the ones in default_images/brand for
the about box, the splashscreen and the backing window
b) We have a --with-intro-bitmap and --with-about-bitmap for custom
splash and about pngs
c) So move the current ones to e.g. a TDF brand dir, grab the non-TDF
pngs from somewhere and stick those into the generic dir
d) Then for all the distro-config/*conf where the vendor is "The
Document Foundation" add --with-intro-bitmap/--with-about-bitmap to
point them to the TDF branded ones

So...

a) Where are the appropriate non-TDF about, intro *and* backing window
images ? Do they exist somewhere already ?
b) Looks like we don't have an option for selecting an alternative set
of backing window pngs (default_images/brand/shell) ? Is there another
way to do that already, or should we re-work and simplify
--with-intro-bitmap and --with-about-bitmap to be a single
--with-brand-images which points to a dir that contains a full set of
intro, about and backing window images

C.


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Andre Schnabel]

Hi,

> Von: Charles-H. Schulz
> 
> I'd +1 Thorsten's short summary, but does it work with Debian rules?

yes - it daoes, bacuse ...

> Le 10 août 2011 14:34, "Thorsten Behrens"  a
> écrit :

> >
> > The tm rule then boils down to: stuff from the official tdf/libo
> > website - TDF mark permitted. Stuff from elsewhere: TDF mark not
> > permitted, unless permission explicitely granted.


Debian can just use the LibreOffice logo (without TDF tagline), as they
build from source without major modifications.

Again - the only problem i see is that the "TDF-tagged" Logo is the default.

And - we already have two logos, so there is no additional effort in 
"creating and maintaining a second logo". 

regards,

André

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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Tom, all!

A quick note ... mis-using the steering-discuss being an SC deputy.

Am Mittwoch, den 10.08.2011, 10:35 +0100 schrieb Tom Davies:
> Sounds good to me but i'm curious about the Branding Team's thoughts on this. 
>  
> Italo?

I'm not Italo, but I'm one of those who (with Bernhard, Nik, Ivan, ...)
developed the today's branding. Personally, I would be happy if we could
ship the non-tagline logo - and add the tagline on demand. This will
make things more simple and even more visually attractive.

When we worked on the motif design, Nik already made a draft how this
could look like:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/b/b3/ScatterInContext_bunch.jpg

So +1 to the proposal.

One thing that - then - needs to be addressed is the todays tagline
logo. Later this year, I'd like to propose a small revision to make
non-tagline and tagline logo more consistent.

Cheers,
Christoph


> From: Florian Effenberger 
> To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Sent: Wed, 10 August, 2011 9:25:05
> Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-08 13:17:
> > ... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least this
> > was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should
> > be used for "instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document
> > Foundation".
> > 
> > Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for builds
> > from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell people
> > to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
> > via TDF resources.
> 
> that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Good point.  There are a LOT of distros out there so perhaps it might be best 
to 
save up applications until there is a batch to work through to help with 
work-flow.  Anyway, there is no point worrying about this unless the TDF 
suddenly gets swamped with tons of requests and that would give the batch 
anyway!  lol

Ok, lets forget this suggestion and get back to what this thread was really 
about before i side-tracked it (apols) :)
Regards from
Tom :)




From: drew 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Wed, 10 August, 2011 16:15:44
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 17:06 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Tom Davies wrote on 2011-08-10 16:45:
> > if it could be that simple then it would be easy to give quick answers to
> > requests.  I'm not sure what the relevance of Debian is.
> >
> >
> > Could there be an agreement now to allow any distro in the top 100  (or 
> > just 
>top
> > 50?) at DistroWatch
> >
> >
> > http://distrowatch.com
> > to use 'the proper' logos and splash-screen rather than the community 
>versions.
> > Any other distros that contact TDF could be dealt with one at a time but it
> > might help to have a blanket agreement covering the most popular ones.
> 
> I would not give general permissions. Permissions that are different 
> from the standard policy should always be granted on an individual basis 
> / case-by-case basis.

+1

It would make sense I suppose, looking at Linux distro's for instance,
to construct a reasonably simple mechanism for non-commercial users to
request the logo - perhaps a web form, the request could be sent to a
mailing list, a standing practice _could_ be to allow use after some
period of days after request assuming no one objects. (just a off the
top of the head thought)

//drew


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[drew]

On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 17:06 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Tom Davies wrote on 2011-08-10 16:45:
> > if it could be that simple then it would be easy to give quick answers to
> > requests.  I'm not sure what the relevance of Debian is.
> >
> >
> > Could there be an agreement now to allow any distro in the top 100  (or 
> > just top
> > 50?) at DistroWatch
> >
> >
> > http://distrowatch.com
> > to use 'the proper' logos and splash-screen rather than the community 
> > versions.
> > Any other distros that contact TDF could be dealt with one at a time but it
> > might help to have a blanket agreement covering the most popular ones.
> 
> I would not give general permissions. Permissions that are different 
> from the standard policy should always be granted on an individual basis 
> / case-by-case basis.

+1

It would make sense I suppose, looking at Linux distro's for instance,
to construct a reasonably simple mechanism for non-commercial users to
request the logo - perhaps a web form, the request could be sent to a
mailing list, a standing practice _could_ be to allow use after some
period of days after request assuming no one objects. (just a off the
top of the head thought)

//drew


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Tom Davies wrote on 2011-08-10 16:45:

if it could be that simple then it would be easy to give quick answers to
requests.  I'm not sure what the relevance of Debian is.


Could there be an agreement now to allow any distro in the top 100  (or just top
50?) at DistroWatch


http://distrowatch.com
to use 'the proper' logos and splash-screen rather than the community versions.
Any other distros that contact TDF could be dealt with one at a time but it
might help to have a blanket agreement covering the most popular ones.


I would not give general permissions. Permissions that are different 
from the standard policy should always be granted on an individual basis 
/ case-by-case basis.


Florian

--
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1
if it could be that simple then it would be easy to give quick answers to 
requests.  I'm not sure what the relevance of Debian is.  


Could there be an agreement now to allow any distro in the top 100  (or just 
top 
50?) at DistroWatch 


http://distrowatch.com
to use 'the proper' logos and splash-screen rather than the community versions. 
 
Any other distros that contact TDF could be dealt with one at a time but it 
might help to have a blanket agreement covering the most popular ones.  

Regards from
Tom :)





From: Charles-H. Schulz 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Wed, 10 August, 2011 15:10:20
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

I'd +1 Thorsten's short summary, but does it work with Debian rules?

Best,

Charles.
Le 10 août 2011 14:34, "Thorsten Behrens"  a
écrit :
> Caolan McNamara wrote:
>> > > Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for
builds
>> > > from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell
people
>> > > to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be
distributed
>> > > via TDF resources.
>> >
>> > that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?
>>
>> Its the logical conclusion. Do we think this is a desirable thing
>> however ? rather than a corner the rules paint us into that force
>> maintainable of duplicate logos, etc.
>>
> It makes the whole thing much more consistent, therefore it makes a
> lot of sense to me.
>
> The tm rule then boils down to: stuff from the official tdf/libo
> website - TDF mark permitted. Stuff from elsewhere: TDF mark not
> permitted, unless permission explicitely granted.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Thorsten
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Charles-H. Schulz]

I'd +1 Thorsten's short summary, but does it work with Debian rules?

Best,

Charles.
Le 10 août 2011 14:34, "Thorsten Behrens"  a
écrit :
> Caolan McNamara wrote:
>> > > Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for
builds
>> > > from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell
people
>> > > to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be
distributed
>> > > via TDF resources.
>> >
>> > that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?
>>
>> Its the logical conclusion. Do we think this is a desirable thing
>> however ? rather than a corner the rules paint us into that force
>> maintainable of duplicate logos, etc.
>>
> It makes the whole thing much more consistent, therefore it makes a
> lot of sense to me.
>
> The tm rule then boils down to: stuff from the official tdf/libo
> website - TDF mark permitted. Stuff from elsewhere: TDF mark not
> permitted, unless permission explicitely granted.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Thorsten
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[drew]

On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 14:31 +0200, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> Caolan McNamara wrote:
> > > > Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for 
> > > > builds
> > > > from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell 
> > > > people
> > > > to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
> > > > via TDF resources.
> > > 
> > > that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?
> > 
> > Its the logical conclusion. Do we think this is a desirable thing
> > however ? rather than a corner the rules paint us into that force
> > maintainable of duplicate logos, etc.
> > 
> It makes the whole thing much more consistent, therefore it makes a
> lot of sense to me.
> 
> The tm rule then boils down to: stuff from the official tdf/libo
> website - TDF mark permitted. Stuff from elsewhere: TDF mark not
> permitted, unless permission explicitely granted.

+1

So, if OpenSUSE wants to use the TDF logo in the distro all they need do
tis ask - but if 3 guys on an IRC channel decide to roll their own Linux
Distro, then on day one it would be the Community Logo.

[Side note - hopefully when future decisions are made to allow
commercial operators to use the TDF mark the community will be involved
in that decision, in some way]

//drew


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hmm I still think our subline would be valuable for gnu/linux distributions.
We may insert our previous language I think.

Charles.
Le 10 août 2011 10:25, "Florian Effenberger" 
a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-08 13:17:
>> ... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least
this
>> was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should
>> be used for "instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document
>> Foundation".
>>
>> Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for
builds
>> from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell
people
>> to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
>> via TDF resources.
>
> that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?
>
> Florian
>
> --
> Florian Effenberger 
> Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
> Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
> Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Caolan McNamara]

On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 10:25 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-08 13:17:
> > ... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least this
> > was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should
> > be used for "instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document
> > Foundation".
> >
> > Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for builds
> > from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell people
> > to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
> > via TDF resources.
> 
> that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?

Its the logical conclusion. Do we think this is a desirable thing
however ? rather than a corner the rules paint us into that force
maintainable of duplicate logos, etc.

C.


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1 
Sounds good to me but i'm curious about the Branding Team's thoughts on this.  
Italo?
Regards from
Tom :)





From: Florian Effenberger 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Wed, 10 August, 2011 9:25:05
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

Hi,

Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-08 13:17:
> ... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least this
> was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should
> be used for "instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document
> Foundation".
> 
> Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for builds
> from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell people
> to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
> via TDF resources.

that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?

Florian

-- Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-08 13:17:

... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least this
was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should
be used for "instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document
Foundation".

Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for builds
from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell people
to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
via TDF resources.


that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think?

Florian

--
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Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Andre Schnabel]

Hi,

> Von: "Charles-H. Schulz" 
> 
> Hmm, if that confuses you, it will confuse otgers. 

I htink, what is confusing here is that ...

> Le 8 août 2011 11:50, "Caolan McNamara"  a écrit :
> >
> > I'm not super-attached to the TDF tagline for distro/personal builds,
> > but I am attached to using the default logos, whichever they are, for
> > distro/personal builds.


... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least this 
was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should 
be used for "instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document 
Foundation".

Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for builds
from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell people
to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed
via TDF resources.

regards,

André


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Caolan,

Hmm, if that confuses you, it will confuse otgers. Florian, any chance we
may come up with a cleare sentence? (am on my phone on vacations).

Thank you,

Charles.
Le 8 août 2011 11:50, "Caolan McNamara"  a écrit :
> On Sat, 2011-08-06 at 18:43 +0200, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
>> Caolan,
>>
>> I think we got that covered already in the text... Or am I wrong?
>
> I thought it was such that the default logos (with TDF on it) could be
> used under the "substantially unchanged" concept. But on re-reading, it
> reads more like the implication is that it can be called LibreOffice
> under the "substantially unchanged" concept, but that death to anyone
> using the TDF tagline ?
>
> I'm not super-attached to the TDF tagline for distro/personal builds,
> but I am attached to using the default logos, whichever they are, for
> distro/personal builds.
>
> C.
>
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Caolan McNamara]

On Sat, 2011-08-06 at 18:43 +0200, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Caolan,
> 
> I think we got that covered already in the text... Or am I wrong?

I thought it was such that the default logos (with TDF on it) could be
used under the "substantially unchanged" concept. But on re-reading, it
reads more like the implication is that it can be called LibreOffice
under the "substantially unchanged" concept, but that death to anyone
using the TDF tagline ?

I'm not super-attached to the TDF tagline for distro/personal builds,
but I am attached to using the default logos, whichever they are, for
distro/personal builds.

C.


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think Italo would have alerted us if there was a problem.  Or someone else if 
he hadn't noticed it.  

Regards from
Tom :)





From: Florian Effenberger 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Sun, 7 August, 2011 11:59:15
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

Hi,

Tom Davies wrote on 2011-08-06 13:54:

> Has the marketing or Branding team (or reps here) approved of either this
> version or the original?  Since both have very much the same meanings i think
> approval of either would be good enough.

everyone involved should be subscribed to the steering-discuss list, so they 
can 
give their comments if they want. :)

Florian

-- Florian Effenberger 
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Tom Davies wrote on 2011-08-06 13:54:


Has the marketing or Branding team (or reps here) approved of either this
version or the original?  Since both have very much the same meanings i think
approval of either would be good enough.


everyone involved should be subscribed to the steering-discuss list, so 
they can give their comments if they want. :)


Florian

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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Caolan,

I think we got that covered already in the text... Or am I wrong?

Best,

Charles.
Le 6 août 2011 16:13, "Caolan McNamara"  a écrit :
> On Sat, 2011-08-06 at 12:47 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
>> The logos that bear the exact mention of
>> the software name with the mention "The Document Foundation" are
>> reserved for two purposes:
>>
>> * the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash
>> screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on
>> official materials from the legal entity itself
>
> hmm...
>
> a) "Only the logos that bear the exact mention of the software name with
> the mention “The Document Foundation” are reserved for the sole and
> official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash screens from
> software builds compiled by the Document Foundation"
>
> b) "You may use the Marks without prior written permission (subject to
> the following terms):
>
> 1. To refer to the LibreOffice software in substantially unmodified
> form.
>
> "Substantially unmodified" means built from the source code provided by
> TDF, possibly with minor modifications including but not limited to: the
> enabling or disabling of certain features by default, translations into
> other languages, changes required for compatibility with a particular
> operating system distribution, the inclusion of bug-fix patches, or the
> bundling of additional fonts, templates, artwork and extensions)."
>
> So does a packager of LibreOffice, like Red Hat, SuSe, Debian, Ubuntu,
> etc and so forth who compiles it themselves for their distro, have to
> change the splashscreen away from the default one which has "The
> Document Foundation" in it. i.e. a or b ?
>
> C.
>
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Caolan McNamara]

On Sat, 2011-08-06 at 12:47 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> The logos that bear the exact mention of 
> the software name with the mention "The Document Foundation" are 
> reserved for two purposes:
> 
> * the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash 
> screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on 
> official materials from the legal entity itself

hmm...

a) "Only the logos that bear the exact mention of the software name with
the mention “The Document Foundation” are reserved for the sole and
official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash screens from
software builds compiled by the Document Foundation"

b) "You may use the Marks without prior written permission (subject to
the following terms):

1. To refer to the LibreOffice software in substantially unmodified
form.

"Substantially unmodified" means built from the source code provided by
TDF, possibly with minor modifications including but not limited to: the
enabling or disabling of certain features by default, translations into
other languages, changes required for compatibility with a particular
operating system distribution, the inclusion of bug-fix patches, or the
bundling of additional fonts, templates, artwork and extensions)."

So does a packager of LibreOffice, like Red Hat, SuSe, Debian, Ubuntu,
etc and so forth who compiles it themselves for their distro, have to
change the splashscreen away from the default one which has "The
Document Foundation" in it. i.e. a or b ?

C.


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Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think the new wording is much clearer.  

Bullet-points definitely helped imo.  The wording seems about as smooth and 
straight forward as it is likely to get without changing the meanings.  It's a 
LOT less turgid than many simialr things i have read but seems to deal with the 
legal and Branding issues afaik.  


Has the marketing or Branding team (or reps here) approved of either this 
version or the original?  Since both have very much the same meanings i think 
approval of either would be good enough.  


Regards from
Tom :)





From: Florian Effenberger 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Sat, 6 August, 2011 11:47:53
Subject: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

Hello,

my other task from the last SC calls was to add a note to the trademark policy 
that helps in understanding when the subline can be used.

My proposed change follows:

old version:
==
Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither abbreviated 
nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of acceptable logos 
for 
general use. If you are not sure where they are please inquire on our lists. 
Only the logos that bear the exact mention of the software name with the 
mention 
“The Document Foundation” are reserved for the sole and official use of TDF as 
an entity, for instance on splash screens from software builds compiled by the 
Document Foundation or DVD labels officially stemming from the Document 
Foundation. You may not use this set of logos but only the logos bearing the 
software name without the Document Foundation's mention.
==

new version:
==
Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither abbreviated 
nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of acceptable logos 
for 
general use. If you are not sure where they are please inquire on our lists. 
The 
logos that bear the exact mention of the software name with the mention "The 
Document Foundation" are reserved for two purposes:

* the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash screens 
from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on official 
materials from the legal entity itself

* the use within the Projects of the Community - like documentation, marketing 
or website - when the respective work is prepared and coordinated openly and 
transparently, on the appropriate communication channels, following the 
Foundation's and Community's principles

/Example: A publisher working on a documentation with a few selected community 
members is not eligible for use of logos with the mention "The Document 
Foundation", whereas the documentation team itself may freely use it for any 
project that is coordinated on its mailing lists.

You may not use this set of logos for other than the above purposes, but only 
the logos bearing the software name without the Document Foundation's mention.
==

Does this make things clear. Shall we embed it, or can we find an easier 
wording?

Thanks,
Florian

-- Florian Effenberger 
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[steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

my other task from the last SC calls was to add a note to the trademark 
policy that helps in understanding when the subline can be used.


My proposed change follows:

old version:
==
Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither 
abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of 
acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are 
please inquire on our lists. Only the logos that bear the exact mention 
of the software name with the mention “The Document Foundation” are 
reserved for the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance 
on splash screens from software builds compiled by the Document 
Foundation or DVD labels officially stemming from the Document 
Foundation. You may not use this set of logos but only the logos bearing 
the software name without the Document Foundation's mention.

==

new version:
==
Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither 
abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of 
acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are 
please inquire on our lists. The logos that bear the exact mention of 
the software name with the mention "The Document Foundation" are 
reserved for two purposes:


* the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash 
screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on 
official materials from the legal entity itself


* the use within the Projects of the Community - like documentation, 
marketing or website - when the respective work is prepared and 
coordinated openly and transparently, on the appropriate communication 
channels, following the Foundation's and Community's principles


/Example: A publisher working on a documentation with a few selected 
community members is not eligible for use of logos with the mention "The 
Document Foundation", whereas the documentation team itself may freely 
use it for any project that is coordinated on its mailing lists.


You may not use this set of logos for other than the above purposes, but 
only the logos bearing the software name without the Document 
Foundation's mention.

==

Does this make things clear. Shall we embed it, or can we find an easier 
wording?


Thanks,
Florian

--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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