Re: Our Friends at the UN
Jim Sharkey wrote: John D. Giorgis wrote: SWING VOTES: Ireland, Mexico, Guinea, Cameroon Yes folks, the fate of the world may well rest in the hands of Guinea or Cameroon, should Ireland or Mexico choose to abstain from voting. This kind of statement is an example of why some nations think the US is arrogant. God forbid a pathetic backwater like Cameroon have any say in what happens in the world. It's not like they live in it or anything. Jim But by the same token, we should continue to allow people in backwater states have a disproportionate say in the presidential election, right? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
In a message dated 10/29/2002 10:26:35 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Ahhh, Shredded Wheat, isn't that by POST Cereal? >> Kellogg has Frosted Mini Wheats. But there are too many people on the list getting frosted over other things. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Question for everyone
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:brin-l-bounces@;mccmedia.com]On > Behalf Of J. van Baardwijk ... > With some people, yes -- but not with Giorgis. Over the years, he > has been > talked to by several people about his behaviour, but he has never > shown any > signs of improvement. So, why should anyone believe that the > dinging system > will suddenly get him to accept that he has been misbehaving, and get him > to shape up? I suppose it's because we're eternal optimists. Well, no, actually. IMO, the purpose of any sort of governance is not behavior modification, but to create appropriate consequences for anti-social behavior. Those may seem to be the same thing, but done well, they're not. I must say, though, that I am terribly tempted to propose a deal in which all parties would abandon any attempts to change others' behavior around here. But I'm not at all confident that we really know how to see and act upon such boundaries. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Dinging plans (was RE: test)
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:brin-l-bounces@;mccmedia.com]On > Behalf Of Jim Sharkey [snip] > Do we know if he intended for the dings to be anonymous? Anyone? I know! At first, that was the thought, but that was because DB borrowed the notion from live chat, where the dynamics are quite different. My intention is to try to figure out something that works in this environment, with help from all of you. It surely won't satisfy all, perhaps none, but I hope we can collectively arrive at minimal governance with maximum positive effect for all. And I'm sure that no matter what is done, some people will disagree about whether we have arrived there or not. I guess I should point out that I will have ultimate veto power over anything I code -- that's the perogative of the inventor. But the community ultimately gets to decide if it wants to *use* it, which is what ultimately matters. I'll also add that I'm looking at this with an eye toward David's ideas about disputation forums on the net. I'm interested in seeing that sort of thing work, as it would appear to fit nicely as an item in my toolchest for the new venture I'm working on. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: POST
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:brin-l-bounces@;mccmedia.com]On > Behalf Of Doug > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:11 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: POST > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >In a message dated 10/29/2002 9:05:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > ><< > Doug wrote: > > > > Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: > > > > >Jim wrote: > > > > >>William Taylor wrote: > > > > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > >>> > "Ahem." > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > "Post." > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Ehrum. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Kellogg's. > > > > >>> > > > > >>>Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. > > > > >>> > > > > >>It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) > > > > > > > > > >Ah, get a Life. > > > > > > > > > Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. > > > > > > > > Cheerio, > > > > > > How lucky we all are, to be gifted by your charms. > > > > I'm a married man who is not interested in being gifted by > Doug's charms. > > > > Dan M. > > >> > > > >Soon the string will look like this: > > > > > >Total silliness. > > > Hmmm, looks like shredded wheat. > > Doug Ahhh, Shredded Wheat, isn't that by POST Cereal? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/29/2002 9:05:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << > Doug wrote: > > Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: > > >Jim wrote: > > >>William Taylor wrote: > > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >>> > "Ahem." > > >>> > > > >>> > "Post." > > >>> > > >>> Ehrum. > > >>> > > >>> Kellogg's. > > >>> > > >>>Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. > > >>> > > >>It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) > > > > > >Ah, get a Life. > > > > > Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. > > > > Cheerio, > > How lucky we all are, to be gifted by your charms. I'm a married man who is not interested in being gifted by Doug's charms. Dan M. >> Soon the string will look like this: Total silliness. Hmmm, looks like shredded wheat. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Question for everyone
> From: Ritu Ko [mailto:ritu@;theculture.org] > > > > Giorgis habitually uses personal attacks as a means to "win" > > a discussion; > > I am shocked to see that you think of that as something that > > is not "such a > > big problem". > > Are you usually so easily shocked? > > As for what I said, well, personal attacks doesn't ever let > anyone 'win' > an argument/discussion. So I fail to see what the big deal is. Remember the brilliant way Rito dealt with a recent and much nastier attack upon her. I've saved that post for future reference (in case I'm ever in the mood to respond to someone who has flamed me)... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Christian insanity.
> From: Jim Sharkey [mailto:templar569@;excite.com] > You know, I don't understand why certain Christians think > their faith is so weak. That is, they seem to be terrified > of the invasion of other ideas. If one's faith and beliefs > are strong, I don't see why exposure to other ideas is such a > problem. You'd think you could open your mind to new > experiences without losing your own faith. > > Jim My mother is something of a Fundy. From what I've been able to glean of her world view, the problem isn't that they're afraid of losing their own faith, it's that they don't want 'false religions' getting into the heads of the 'unsaved' before they have a chance to. Ecumenical thought, and tolerance in general, are Satanic Conspiracies after all . . . ++ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
In a message dated 10/29/2002 9:05:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << > Doug wrote: > > Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: > > >Jim wrote: > > >>William Taylor wrote: > > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >>> > "Ahem." > > >>> > > > >>> > "Post." > > >>> > > >>> Ehrum. > > >>> > > >>> Kellogg's. > > >>> > > >>>Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. > > >>> > > >>It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) > > > > > >Ah, get a Life. > > > > > Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. > > > > Cheerio, > > How lucky we all are, to be gifted by your charms. I'm a married man who is not interested in being gifted by Doug's charms. Dan M. >> Soon the string will look like this: Total silliness. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Our Friends at the UN
In a message dated 10/29/2002 8:07:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << This kind of statement is an example of why some nations think the US is arrogant. God forbid a pathetic backwater like Cameroon have any say in what happens in the world. It's not like they live in it or anything. Jim >> Or as Bugs Bunny would say, "What a bunch of Cam-maroons." Oh what we could have done if Peter Ustinov had actually been an ambasador. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Our Friends at the UN
At 10:07 PM 10/29/2002 -0500 Jim Sharkey wrote: > >John D. Giorgis wrote: >> SWING VOTES: >> Ireland, Mexico, Guinea, Cameroon >> >>Yes folks, the fate of the world may well rest in the hands of >>Guinea or Cameroon, should Ireland or Mexico choose to abstain from >>voting. > >This kind of statement is an example of why some nations think the US is arrogant. God forbid a pathetic backwater like Cameroon have any say in what happens in the world. It's not like they live in it or anything. > There's difference between giving the Cameroonians a *say*, and giving the despot of a tiny, one-party, banana republic the decisive vote on the morality of intervening in Iraq. I'd support the former, but right now, we're stuck with the latter - and find it fairly amusing. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
- Original Message - From: "Steve Sloan II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 10:32 PM Subject: Re: test > Reggie Bautista wrote: > > > Somehow, the thought of anonymous dinging had never > > entered my mind before this discussion started. Since > > I first heard mention of dinging, I always assumed it > > would be an open, transparent process. Personally, > > I'd like to see the ding-er give an explanation to the > > ding-ee as to why they are being dinged in a calm, > > polite way, much like it used to be when someone was > > tapped by the legendary "wand of dinging." > > Same here. The dinging Nick is developing seems pretty far > from what we called dinging in Jo Anne's day. The idea of > anonymous dings makes me nervous, plus I always thought of > a ding as merely a message telling the dingee (or other > small boat ;-) ) to cool off, not a mechanism for slowing > down the dingee's posting. I can see anonymous dings being a problem. I think we can do without that feature. To first order, the folks who will ding are now the folks who write emails discussing their displeasure with a post or a series of posts. The difficulty with the Jo Anne method is that times have changed. We have at least two posters who have indicated a strong disinclination to stopping a series of posts because it was politely requested. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
Reggie Bautista wrote: > Somehow, the thought of anonymous dinging had never > entered my mind before this discussion started. Since > I first heard mention of dinging, I always assumed it > would be an open, transparent process. Personally, > I'd like to see the ding-er give an explanation to the > ding-ee as to why they are being dinged in a calm, > polite way, much like it used to be when someone was > tapped by the legendary "wand of dinging." Same here. The dinging Nick is developing seems pretty far from what we called dinging in Jo Anne's day. The idea of anonymous dings makes me nervous, plus I always thought of a ding as merely a message telling the dingee (or other small boat ;-) ) to cool off, not a mechanism for slowing down the dingee's posting. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama => [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages ... http://www.sloan3d.com/brinl Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
Steve Sloan II wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. Aha! Borrowing a classic strategy from General Mills. You must be thinking of Captain Crunch. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. Aha! Borrowing a classic strategy from General Mills. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama => [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages ... http://www.sloan3d.com/brinl Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
- Original Message - From: "Adam C. Lipscomb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 9:46 PM Subject: Re: POST > Doug wrote: > > Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: > > >Jim wrote: > > >>William Taylor wrote: > > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >>> > "Ahem." > > >>> > > > >>> > "Post." > > >>> > > >>> Ehrum. > > >>> > > >>> Kellogg's. > > >>> > > >>>Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. > > >>> > > >>It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) > > > > > >Ah, get a Life. > > > > > Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. > > > > Cheerio, > > How lucky we all are, to be gifted by your charms. I'm a married man who is not interested in being gifted by Doug's charms. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: Doug wrote: Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: Jim wrote: William Taylor wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ahem." "Post." Ehrum. Kellogg's. Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) Ah, get a Life. Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. Cheerio, How lucky we all are, to be gifted by your charms. I knew that one would bowl you over. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
Doug wrote: > Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: >>Jim wrote: >>>William Taylor wrote: >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >"Ahem." > >"Post." Ehrum. Kellogg's. Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. >>>It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) >>> >> >>Ah, get a Life. >> >Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. Nah, we're not flakes, we're Froot Loops. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
Doug wrote: > Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: > >Jim wrote: > >>William Taylor wrote: > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >>> > "Ahem." > >>> > > >>> > "Post." > >>> > >>> Ehrum. > >>> > >>> Kellogg's. > >>> > >>>Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. > >>> > >>It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) > > > >Ah, get a Life. > > > Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. > > Cheerio, How lucky we all are, to be gifted by your charms. Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Silence. I am watching television." - Spider Jerusalem ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: Jim wrote: William Taylor wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > "Ahem." > > "Post." Ehrum. Kellogg's. Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) Ah, get a Life. Jeeze, what a bunch of flakes. Cheerio, Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
Dan Minette wrote: I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and the certainty of observation with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy of science. I'm sure we'll all be L8ted when we get that one Doug Sprinting for cover. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Christian insanity.
Gary Nunn wrote: > > Ok, this website is almost scary. At first it reads much like 'The > Onion", > but then you realize that it is for real.. > http://www.christianreporter.com/cgi/editorlite/print.cgi > > My favorite headline: > Prayer Teams Deploy Against Buddhist Gathering > posted - 11 October, 2002 > A 12-day Buddhist celebration is causing pastors > in Austria to swing into action. Reportedly, they > are afraid the Tibetan event will "weaken the > gospel's impact in Europe. > > >I am having a difficult time picturing a "prayer team" swinging >into action, it almost reminds me of watching the white-hot action >of bowling on TV. > > I have always said that the one thing that turns people away from > Christianity is Christians. That even gave my wife, a devout Catholic, a good chuckle. You know, I don't understand why certain Christians think their faith is so weak. That is, they seem to be terrified of the invasion of other ideas. If one's faith and beliefs are strong, I don't see why exposure to other ideas is such a problem. You'd think you could open your mind to new experiences without losing your own faith. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Our Friends at the UN
John D. Giorgis wrote: > SWING VOTES: > Ireland, Mexico, Guinea, Cameroon > >Yes folks, the fate of the world may well rest in the hands of >Guinea or Cameroon, should Ireland or Mexico choose to abstain from >voting. This kind of statement is an example of why some nations think the US is arrogant. God forbid a pathetic backwater like Cameroon have any say in what happens in the world. It's not like they live in it or anything. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Anonymous dings
Nick Arnett wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:brin-l-bounces@;mccmedia.com]On Behalf Of Doug Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:42 PM To: New Brin-l Address Subject: Anonymous dings I don't really like the idea of anonymous dings but if they are allowed the penalty should be at least .5 ding. Otherwise, I'm in favor of the system. Doug Doug *who*? ;-) The Doug you were able to respond to in regard to the above suggestion. 8^} Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Christian insanity.
Ok, this website is almost scary. At first it reads much like 'The Onion", but then you realize that it is for real.. http://www.christianreporter.com/cgi/editorlite/print.cgi My favorite headline: Prayer Teams Deploy Against Buddhist Gathering posted - 11 October, 2002 A 12-day Buddhist celebration is causing pastors in Austria to swing into action. Reportedly, they are afraid the Tibetan event will "weaken the gospel's impact in Europe. I am having a difficult time picturing a "prayer team" swinging into action, it almost reminds me of watching the white-hot action of bowling on TV. I have always said that the one thing that turns people away from Christianity is Christians. :-) ___ Gary L. Nunn Delaware Ohio "When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you." -African proverb ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
At 06:02 PM 10/29/2002 +0100 Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: > My opinion on listmail is that if you don't >like what somebody has to say, ignore it. People have a right to an >opinion, fortunatly others have just as much right to ignore it. Use >that right. Use filters, be it just mere mental or state of the art >electronical, you are equipped with them for a reason. Thank you for your interesting, calm, and reasonable thoughts. Unfortunately, the problem with your sentiments is that some people go absolutely bazooka if you simply choose to let subjects drop that you no longer care to pursue, let alone kill-file them, or ignore them. Thus, it seems that a certain list-member's rejection of your above sentiments - ie the rejection of the principle that one listmember has the right to ignore another list-member - is the source of the current angst among the rest of the listmembers. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Flying Saucer seen in Brazil
This is for Alberto Monteiro The Merciless A flying saucer was recently spotted hovering over Rio De Janeiro, broadcasting, "Take me to your leader." in Spanish. Yup, It's a genuine U. F. faux pas [Much much better as a verbal joke.] William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
Alberto wrote: > William Taylor wrote: > > > >> Lucky bastards [*] > >> > >> [*] movie reference :-) > > > > Waking Ned Divine. > > > No. Monthy Python's _Life of Brian_ > > > Wadda I win? > > > Two dings: one for the error, another for bad quoting. Oh, reg'lar little jailer's pet, are we? Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Silence. I am watching television." - Spider Jerusalem ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
Jim wrote: > William Taylor wrote: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > "Ahem." > > > > > > "Post." > > > > Ehrum. > > > > Kellogg's. > > > > Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. > > It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) Ah, get a Life. Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Silence. I am watching television." - Spider Jerusalem ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: cars, air L3er
External combustion engines (steam engines/turbines) are already more efficient than internal combustion engines, and what happened to the Stanley Steamer? -- William T Goodall Well come on ;-) They couldn't go far, took hours to warm up, had to carry both fuel and water, very dangerous in case of accident. They went away because the IC could make power NOW...back in 1889 or whenever. And I'm sure people look at past technologies and play with numbers to see if present developments can make them better. They still design steam turbines and other similar things, but obviously it can overcome drawbacks on a small scale usage. Kevin T. Sleet today! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
William Taylor wrote: > >> Lucky bastards [*] >> >> [*] movie reference :-) > > Waking Ned Divine. > No. Monthy Python's _Life of Brian_ > Wadda I win? > Two dings: one for the error, another for bad quoting. Alberto Monteiro The Merciless ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
William Taylor wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > "Ahem." > > > > "Post." > > Ehrum. > > Kellogg's. > > Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. It's a Trix. Get an ax. :) Jim "Keeping the pop culture references a-coming" Sharkey ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Cobblestones on Trantor?
I just sent this email to Gregory Benford: This hit me like, ...well, like a cobblestone. Page 87 of the PB of Foundation's Fear: ...carrying cobblestones ripped from the street. Rarely does something in a story stop me dead. This did. With advanced construction technology and/or a longer historical record of riots throughout history, I cannot see the logic in building a road out of stone that can be pried up for various nefarious purposes. I shall have to have Hari Seldon mentally think the following line: This was once a good neighborhood patterned after an ancient European city. No. WaitEarth is only a legend. That can't work. How about: Some idiot in planning who went with the lowest cost projection without studing history should lose his or her job over this. Cobblestones exist only to be ripped up at times of stress. Yea. That'd work. Back to my reading. William Taylor - Genitalia on a robot? That's a Gortian naughty. I wonder if he'll groan at this as well as some on the list did. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: test
Jim Sharkey wrote: > >BUT I'm really absolutely totally completely sick and tired of > >people telling me what an 'ignorant fool', 'arrogant basterd' > >or 'fucking son of a bitch' etc my husband is. > > Well, that's just plain messed up. The folks that have the > temerity to insult your husband to you in such a way need a > serious lesson in manners at the very least. Jeroen can be > difficult at times, and yes he bugs me sometimes as I do him, > I'm sure, but I can't imagine asking you to handle it, and > especially not accompanied by that kind of disparagement. > > Shame on those of you that did that. Seriously. Ditto. Ritu GCU Succint GSV Or Just Sleepy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Question for everyone
J. van Baardwijk wrote: > >But surely if the latter doesn't seem like such a big > problem, then the > >'direness' of the former disappears and we can all just > relax and talk > >of something else. > > Giorgis habitually uses personal attacks as a means to "win" > a discussion; > I am shocked to see that you think of that as something that > is not "such a > big problem". Are you usually so easily shocked? As for what I said, well, personal attacks doesn't ever let anyone 'win' an argument/discussion. So I fail to see what the big deal is. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Our Friends at the UN
Wall St. Journal Our Friends at the U.N. Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:01 a.m. EST President Bush is understandably losing patience with the U.N. on Iraq, noting yesterday that Saddam Hussein "is a person who has made the United Nations look foolish." We all know about the French and Russians, but lately Mexican President Vicente Fox has also joined the soft-on-Saddam queue. This council of conciliation is working to water down any use-of-force resolution to the point that it would prop up Saddam more than disarm him. Among other phrases, the countries object to declaring that Saddam is in "material breach" of earlier U.N. resolutions. Iraq has spent the past decade expelling U.N. arms inspectors, as well as trying to rearm with the most dangerous weapons possible, and this isn't a "breach" of disarmament promises? What is it, a foot fault? If Iraq isn't violating U.N. resolutions, then the world can forget about every future U.N. resolution too. They clearly mean nothing at all. The Franco-Russian-Mexican position isn't diplomacy so much as a denial of reality. Instead of attempting to enforce the 1990 and 1991 U.N. resolutions, they are walking away from them. * So: those of you support the UNSC's role in this - how do you defend the objection of the UNSC to even declaring Iraq in "material breach" of previous UN resolutions? As the WSJ says, this isn't diplomacy, it is denial of reality. Latest projected vote count: YES (Nine Needed for Passage): United States, United Kingdom, Norway, Bulgaria, Colombia, Singapore, Mauritius NO Syria ABSTAIN China, Russian Federation, France SWING VOTES: Ireland, Mexico, Guinea, Cameroon Yes folks, the fate of the world may well rest in the hands of Guinea or Cameroon, should Ireland or Mexico choose to abstain from voting. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] People everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages. -US National Security Policy, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: cars, air L3er
on 27/10/02 8:48 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I may be overly optimistic because it is my personal belief that now is the > time to start a shift away from non-renewable fuels, starting with oil. Any > vehicle that will run on anything but gasoline will play a part in starting > that shift. If this vehicle worked, it might help fill the gap until practical > fuel cells are available. Fuel cells are more efficient than internal combustion engines - but they still have to 'burn' something. At the moment they aren't very good at using the complex hydrocarbons of gasoline or diesel fuels. They will probably make a great replacement for batteries in laptop computers etc by burning ethanol (?) - but where does that come from? It *takes* energy to make refined fuels. External combustion engines (steam engines/turbines) are already more efficient than internal combustion engines, and what happened to the Stanley Steamer? -- William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
In a message dated 10/29/2002 4:33:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lucky bastards [*] << [*] movie reference :-) >> Waking Ned Divine. Wadda I win? William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Have your brains eaten for Halloween!
http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?xponent%20 MMM!! Yummy brains xponent Dinnertime Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Some things are too good to last
Jean-Louis replied: I suggest drinking Halloween floats : 1 part blond beer (eg. lager) with orange coloring 1 part Guinness which should float on the lager! Irish bars here in KC (and presumably elsewhere) call this either a half-and-half (if the bottom half is Harp) or a Black and Tan (if the bottom half is Bass). Ahh, the memories! A pint-sized half-and-half in my right hand, a double-shot of Bushmills Special Reserve in my left hand, and a bar full of drunks singing Irish drinking songs along with Eddie Delahunt... Those were *really* the days :-) Reggie Bautista Haven't even had a good glass of Mead in the past year Maru :-( _ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
Debbi wrote: And after further consideration, I have to agree with Erik that anonymous dinging should be severely penalized. If allowed at all. And you ought to try talking it out offlist first [*politely*], as somebody has already suggested. Somehow, the thought of anonymous dinging had never entered my mind before this discussion started. Since I first heard mention of dinging, I always assumed it would be an open, transparent process. Personally, I'd like to see the ding-er give an explanation to the ding-ee as to why they are being dinged in a calm, polite way, much like it used to be when someone was tapped by the legendary "wand of dinging." Reggie Bautista GSV Those Were The Days _ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
Dan wrote: I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and the certainty of observation with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy of science. Sounds like fun. When can we expect this post? I need to know so I can make sure there's enough empty space in my inbox so it doesn't bounce. Just for reference, Hotmail has a 2 MB limit... :-) Reggie Bautista _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > "Post." Julia replied: Ehrum. Kellogg's. Julia dodging the projectiles sure to follow *that* one Hey Julia, INCOMING!!! Reggie Bautista VFP :-) _ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: > >considering the telecommunications company for which I >work had pretty big layoffs yesterday (25% of the >workforce got axed). > Lucky bastards [*]. Here the telecomm companies don't layoff, they keep the employees with near-zero wages until they despair and quit - this saves them about 4% of the _total_ salary they paid for the employee [br law]. Alberto Monteiro [*] movie reference :-) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
In a message dated 10/29/2002 3:51:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << > > "Ahem." > > "Post." Ehrum. Kellogg's. Julia dodging the projectiles sure to follow *that* one >> Naw, I'm holding it in Chex. Vilyehm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sillier and sillier Re: Question for everyone
In a message dated 10/29/2002 3:51:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << if William is a witch (well, I suppose he'd really be a warlock), and he _has_ been chanting on-line. >> "Ohwa Tagoo Thialand." Vilyehm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test: questions & comment
Deborah Harrell wrote: > > --- Julia wrote: > > Deborah Harrell wrote: > > > > > > I'm trying to find out what the problem is: I just > > got > > > Sonja's post on this, but Jim's was already in my > > > inbox before lunch, so clearly others received it > > in timely fashion. > > > > > > We have a T1 line at the office; emails from my > > > Hotmail to Yahoo accounts and vice versa take no > > more than moments -> 5 minutes (it varies). Ideas? > > > > Question: Do longer posts take longer to reach you? > > No. Frex, a 2K post from William (13:25 EST) > 'arrived' approx. 45-60 min after his 3K post of > 13:41. But I'll try to keep better track of timing > from now on (as I am at work, I don't have a 'you've > got mail' alert, but check in when able). > > Evil Gremlins Of Silicon Maru OK, there went my *simple* explanation of what might have been happening. :P Is it just today, or is this a regular occurrence? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sillier and sillier Re: Question for everyone
- Original Message - From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Sillier and sillier Re: Question for everyone > --- Dan Minette wrote: > [Julia and Jean-Louis and William wrote:] > > > > > << L8 post on the minutia of the > > > > > philosophy of science. > > > > > > > > Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the > > reliability of data and the > > > > certainty of observation!! >> > > > > > > > > L8? How can one read a post that's late and > > hasn't arrived yet? > > > > By using time reversal, of course. Actually, > > backwards signals in time are > > required in one of the more prominant realistic > > interpretations of QM. > > So *that's* what is occuring in the bowels of my > computer?! I see... Julia wonders if William is a > witch (well, I suppose he'd really be a warlock), and > he _has_ been chanting on-line. Are you suggesting > that foul play is afoot? No, on principal, I'm arguing that the answer is uncertain. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << No. Frex, a 2K post from William (13:25 EST) > 'arrived' approx. 45-60 min after his 3K post of > 13:41. >> > > "Ahem." > > "Post." Ehrum. Kellogg's. Julia dodging the projectiles sure to follow *that* one ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sillier and sillier Re: Question for everyone
--- Dan Minette wrote: [Julia and Jean-Louis and William wrote:] > > > << L8 post on the minutia of the > > > > philosophy of science. > > > > > > Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the > reliability of data and the > > > certainty of observation!! >> > > > > > > L8? How can one read a post that's late and > hasn't arrived yet? > > By using time reversal, of course. Actually, > backwards signals in time are > required in one of the more prominant realistic > interpretations of QM. So *that's* what is occuring in the bowels of my computer?! I see... Julia wonders if William is a witch (well, I suppose he'd really be a warlock), and he _has_ been chanting on-line. Are you suggesting that foul play is afoot? That our Muggle computers have had their guts goosed by a rogue necromancer harnessing the power of Cthulu?! (sp) Thanks for the explanation. :) Jest Following The Thread Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
- Original Message - From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Question for everyone > Then either Heaven or Hell (or perhaps Purgatory) must be a rather smelly > place by now. Well, actually, it was a devilish quote. Since you have the archives, do you remember the reference quoted in Brin-L :-) > > > > >You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy > > > >of science. > > > > > > Nah, I do not believe you would be able to write such a post. You are > > > bluffing... :-) > > > >Well, I've got books on the philosophy of science and a scanner. Can > >anyone say "extensive quotes?" > > Dan, I said: *write* such a post, not *scan, copy and paste* such a post. Let me 'splane something to you. When it is just scanned copied and pasted, its plagiarism. When there are footnotes and some text around it, its well researched analysis. I didn't go to school 23 years with them learning me nutting. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
--- "J. van Baardwijk" wrote: > Deborah Harrell wrote: > > >And after further consideration, I have to agree > with Erik that > >anonymous dinging should be severely penalized. > > Excellent idea. So, what type of penalty did you > have in mind for those > anonymous dingers? Hanging? Beheading? Bullet > through the head? Lethal > injection? Well, with all the recent talk on the list of Waves of Bran and cod liver oil, I'm thinking... *do not read if you have a queasy stomach* * * ... a triple-H enema: "high, hot and a hell of a lot!" (slang from at VA hospital days) Right Back At Ya Maru ;) __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: POST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << No. Frex, a 2K post from William (13:25 EST) 'arrived' approx. 45-60 min after his 3K post of 13:41. >> "Ahem." "Post." ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
At 16:15 29-10-2002 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > >with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. > > Hey, are you threatening me? :-) Yea, and I'll insult you too. Yo mamma sews socks that smell. Then either Heaven or Hell (or perhaps Purgatory) must be a rather smelly place by now. > >You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy > >of science. > > Nah, I do not believe you would be able to write such a post. You are > bluffing... :-) Well, I've got books on the philosophy of science and a scanner. Can anyone say "extensive quotes?" Dan, I said: *write* such a post, not *scan, copy and paste* such a post. Jeroen "You're not getting away with it *that* easy" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test: questions & comment
--- Julia wrote: > Deborah Harrell wrote: > > > > I'm trying to find out what the problem is: I just > got > > Sonja's post on this, but Jim's was already in my > > inbox before lunch, so clearly others received it > in timely fashion. > > > > We have a T1 line at the office; emails from my > > Hotmail to Yahoo accounts and vice versa take no > more than moments -> 5 minutes (it varies). Ideas? > > Question: Do longer posts take longer to reach you? No. Frex, a 2K post from William (13:25 EST) 'arrived' approx. 45-60 min after his 3K post of 13:41. But I'll try to keep better track of timing from now on (as I am at work, I don't have a 'you've got mail' alert, but check in when able). Evil Gremlins Of Silicon Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
- Original Message - From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Question for everyone > > Julia > > who read *every* *single* L3+ post from Dan on the subject so far, and > who will force herself to read this one, if it is posted, and isn't sure > if that's a good sign or not It sounds as though you consider my posts the cod liver oil of mailing lists. Good for you but, eww Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sillier and sillier Re: Question for everyone
- Original Message - From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: Sillier and sillier Re: Question for everyone > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > In a message dated 10/29/2002 2:44:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > << L8 post on the minutia of the > > > philosophy of science. > > > > Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the reliability of data and the > > certainty of observation!! >> > > > > L8? How can one read a post that's late and hasn't arrived yet? By using time reversal, of course. Actually, backwards signals in time are required in one of the more prominant realistic interpretations of QM. > Heh heh heh. > > L8 in this case means significantly longer than L3, which is the tag for > longish messages. (There's a thread which includes "L3er" in the > subject line, meaning "longer than L3.) > > But I very much like your question. :) > > > If one is going to bandy the reliability of data and the > > certainty of observation, then there will be a certainty of > > decreased observation based upon the reliability of the > > brandy being served during the observation. > > Brandy? Where? > > Oh, never mind, I prefer port, anyway. Then the recent weather we've been having would have offered you many excuses: any port in a storm. That 8" in 3 hours was a good rain. > > Duck? DUCK? Are you sure you're not a witch? ;) Ducks liked it too. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
Dan Minette wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:59 PM > Subject: Re: Question for everyone > > > At 15:43 29-10-2002 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > > >I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and > the > > >certainty of observation > > >with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. > > >You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy > > >of science. > > > > Nah, I do not believe you would be able to write such a post. You are > > bluffing... :-) > > Well, I've got books on the philosophy of science and a scanner. Can > anyone say "extensive quotes?" N! Not the scanner! IIGH! ( ;) ) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
Jean-Louis Couturier wrote: > > De : Dan Minette [mailto:dsummersminet@;houston.rr.com] > > > I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and the > > certainty of observation with someone who has degrees both in science and > > philosophy. You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the > > philosophy of science. > > Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the reliability of data and the > certainty of observation!! > > Jean-Louis > No, really, I'm curious. Oh, boy, now I'm dreading the post that Dan is sure to craft. ;) Julia who read *every* *single* L3+ post from Dan on the subject so far, and who will force herself to read this one, if it is posted, and isn't sure if that's a good sign or not ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Sillier and sillier Re: Question for everyone
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 10/29/2002 2:44:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << L8 post on the minutia of the > > philosophy of science. > > Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the reliability of data and the > certainty of observation!! >> > > L8? How can one read a post that's late and hasn't arrived yet? Heh heh heh. L8 in this case means significantly longer than L3, which is the tag for longish messages. (There's a thread which includes "L3er" in the subject line, meaning "longer than L3.) But I very much like your question. :) > If one is going to bandy the reliability of data and the > certainty of observation, then there will be a certainty of > decreased observation based upon the reliability of the > brandy being served during the observation. Brandy? Where? Oh, never mind, I prefer port, anyway. > (An add hic observation.) > > William Taylor > - > (Ducking out of the way.) Duck? DUCK? Are you sure you're not a witch? ;) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
At 17:02 29-10-2002 -0500, William Taylor wrote: L8? How can one read a post that's late and hasn't arrived yet? By travelling through time, of course. Jeroen "Simple question, simple answer" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
- Original Message - From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Question for everyone > At 15:43 29-10-2002 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > > > > >Posted by you on 10/27 at 2:12 AM CDT, according to my computer. > > > > > > Yeah, well, that is what your computer says. But your computer is a M$ > > > Windows machine; how much do you trust Bill's Evil Empire? > > > >I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and the > >certainty of observation > > I am not questioning the reliability of your data or your observation > skills; I merely do not put overwhelming trust in the operating system used > on the computer on which you store your data. :-) But, it corresponds to my analog clock. It is true that there is an error bar on the observation, but the error bar is a quantity that has been verified by numerous other measurements. So, I admit that it could have been written as early as 1:00 AM or as late as 6:30 AM. But, that does not change the substance of my claim. The substance of my claim could only be laid at Microsoft's doorstep that Gates or one of his flunkies actually wrote that post. > >with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. > > Hey, are you threatening me? :-) Yea, and I'll insult you too. Yo mamma sews socks that smell. > >You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy > >of science. > > Nah, I do not believe you would be able to write such a post. You are > bluffing... :-) Well, I've got books on the philosophy of science and a scanner. Can anyone say "extensive quotes?" Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test: questions & comment
Deborah Harrell wrote: > > I'm trying to find out what the problem is: I just got > Sonja's post on this, but Jim's was already in my > inbox before lunch, so clearly others received it in > timely fashion. > > We have a T1 line at the office; emails from my > Hotmail to Yahoo accounts and vice versa take no more > than moments -> 5 minutes (it varies). Ideas? Question: Do longer posts take longer to reach you? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Question for everyone
> From: J. van Baardwijk [mailto:j.vanbaardwijk@;chello.nl] > > > >I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of > data and the > >certainty of observation > >with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. > > Hey, are you threatening me? :-) Yes, but is it an American or a European swallow ... er ... threat? ;-) - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
In a message dated 10/29/2002 2:44:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << L8 post on the minutia of the > philosophy of science. Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the reliability of data and the certainty of observation!! >> L8? How can one read a post that's late and hasn't arrived yet? If one is going to bandy the reliability of data and the certainty of observation, then there will be a certainty of decreased observation based upon the reliability of the brandy being served during the observation. (An add hic observation.) William Taylor - (Ducking out of the way.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Question for everyone
> From: Jean-Louis Couturier [mailto:jean-louis.couturier@;ixiasoft.com] > > De : Dan Minette [mailto:dsummersminet@;houston.rr.com] > > > I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability > of data and the > > certainty of observation with someone who has degrees both > in science and > > philosophy. You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the > minutia of the > > philosophy of science. > > Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the reliability of > data and the certainty of observation!! Oh no! Run for the hills! - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
At 15:43 29-10-2002 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > >Posted by you on 10/27 at 2:12 AM CDT, according to my computer. > > Yeah, well, that is what your computer says. But your computer is a M$ > Windows machine; how much do you trust Bill's Evil Empire? I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and the certainty of observation I am not questioning the reliability of your data or your observation skills; I merely do not put overwhelming trust in the operating system used on the computer on which you store your data. :-) with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. Hey, are you threatening me? :-) You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy of science. Nah, I do not believe you would be able to write such a post. You are bluffing... :-) Jeroen "Prove me wrong -- if you dare" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Question for everyone
De : Dan Minette [mailto:dsummersminet@;houston.rr.com] > I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and the > certainty of observation with someone who has degrees both in science and > philosophy. You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the > philosophy of science. Ooh! I want to read this. I hereby bandy the reliability of data and the certainty of observation!! Jean-Louis No, really, I'm curious. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
- Original Message - From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Question for everyone > At 15:36 28-10-2002 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > > >So, dinging is not moderation according to your definition. Why did you > >call it moderation, then? > > First word that came to mind, probably. Fair enough, many of us are a bit imprecise with word choices when we post quickly. From what I understand now, while we may not agree as to the advisiability of a dinging system, a list with dinging is not a moderated list. > > > >Posted by you on 10/27 at 2:12 AM CDT, according to my computer. > > Yeah, well, that is what your computer says. But your computer is a M$ > Windows machine; how much do you trust Bill's Evil Empire? I'll warn you once. Never ever bandy the the reliability of data and the certainty of observation with someone who has degrees both in science and philosophy. You risk being subjected to a L8 post on the minutia of the philosophy of science. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: test
De : Deborah Harrell [mailto:harrellmedleg@;yahoo.com] > And after further consideration, I have to agree with > Erik that anonymous dinging should be severely > penalized. If allowed at all. And you ought to try > talking it out offlist first [*politely*], as somebody > has already suggested. I don't think anonymous dinging should be allowed at all. If you're willing to penalize someone, you should be ready to suffer the consequences, which include having the dingee pi**ed at you. I'd rather just not have dinging at all. I'm very effec- tive at deleting emails which I don't feel like reading. Jean-Louis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
At 13:27 29-10-2002 -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote: And after further consideration, I have to agree with Erik that anonymous dinging should be severely penalized. Excellent idea. So, what type of penalty did you have in mind for those anonymous dingers? Hanging? Beheading? Bullet through the head? Lethal injection? Jeroen "Forty ways to kill a dinger" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
--- "J. van Baardwijk" wrote: > Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: > > >Out of context from exchange between Debbi and > Nick: > > > >Debbi: > > > I must once again respectfully disagree. > Anonymous dings, no matter the > > > value they are given, go against the idea of > transparency. If someone > > > dings me, I want to know who did it. > > > >Nick: > >I'm sure you do... but I don't think transparency > need be carried that far, necessarily. > > Debbi did not write what you attribute to her -- I > wrote that. > > Jeroen "Minor detail" van Baardwijk I _thought_ that seemed more elaborate than what I remembered writing... What I did say on Sat., Oct 26, same thread, was: "I personally would prefer to know who (and why). If I am convinced someone needs dinging, I am willing to have my opinion made public. If someone wants to ding me, I'd like to know [why]... "But transparency would be easier. And more in the spirit of IAAMOAC." And after further consideration, I have to agree with Erik that anonymous dinging should be severely penalized. If allowed at all. And you ought to try talking it out offlist first [*politely*], as somebody has already suggested. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: test
At 13:03 29-10-2002 -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: Jeroen can be difficult at times, and yes he bugs me sometimes as I do him, I'm sure, OH YES! Jeroen "Where's the bug spray?" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test
At 18:02 29-10-2002 +0100, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: Out of context from exchange between Debbi and Nick: Debbi: > I must once again respectfully disagree. Anonymous dings, no matter the > value they are given, go against the idea of transparency. If someone > dings me, I want to know who did it. Nick: I'm sure you do... but I don't think transparency need be carried that far, necessarily. Debbi did not write what you attribute to her -- I wrote that. Jeroen "Minor detail" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: test: questions & comment
I'm trying to find out what the problem is: I just got Sonja's post on this, but Jim's was already in my inbox before lunch, so clearly others received it in timely fashion. We have a T1 line at the office; emails from my Hotmail to Yahoo accounts and vice versa take no more than moments -> 5 minutes (it varies). Ideas? As for one of the subjects in this post: trying to use someone to "get at" someone else is just plain wrong. And cursing at the first someone (ie. Sonja) is despicable. :( Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
At 15:36 28-10-2002 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > Moderation on a list means that when someone sends a message, that > message is first read by a moderator, who will then decide whether or > not that message will be sent on to the actual list. So, dinging is not moderation according to your definition. Why did you call it moderation, then? First word that came to mind, probably. "Sounds like an awful lot of work for something that is not really useful, not really complies with IAAMOAC, and goes against David Brin's wish that this list be unmoderated." Posted by you on 10/27 at 2:12 AM CDT, according to my computer. Yeah, well, that is what your computer says. But your computer is a M$ Windows machine; how much do you trust Bill's Evil Empire? Jeroen "Question everything -- especially Micro$oft" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
Dan wrote: That all sounds reasonable. And demotions in the presence of massive layoffs means that the company is working hard to keep you because they think you are valuable. > And people say bootlicking and toadyism don't pay off. Are you positive its not that you've demonstrated your worth? I know it may not be the ideal time to argue with you, but you might consider that you were kept because that was a sound business decision. :-) * Sir, I resent this unwarranted and scurrilous attack on my abilities as a toady and "yes-man". I'll have you know that I have studied under the best, and worked for years to hone my skills, going so far as to earn an MUA (Master of the Underling Arts) at the Bavarian Institute of Technology's School of Mad Science (they have a really, really great online learning program). I demand that you submit proof that I am a "valued employee" kept as part of a "sound business decision". *g* Adam "Brilliant, sir, how do you do it, sir?" Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
re: test
At 14:20 28-10-2002 -0800, Adam Lipscomb wrote: Jeroen wrote: GREAT. *snipped some apparent typographical errors* I WILL ONCE AGAIN ... BE ... SHUTTING UP What "apparent typographical errors"? I did not see any typographical errors (either apparent or not apparent ones). Jeroen "Me no speaky the English" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Blix Endorses US Proposal, Negotiatins Continue
IRAQ: Blix Calls For Tough Inspections Regime, Agrees With U.S. Draft UN WIRE The chief U.N. weapons inspector told the Security Council yesterday that the decision of waging war on Iraq would be up to the council, not him. "We've seen sometimes stated that we hold peace and war in our hands. We decline that," Hans Blix said. "Our job is to report, and the decision of whether there is war or peace, or reaction, is for the council." Blix, the head of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, and International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei spoke after presenting their views on the U.S. draft resolution on Iraq's disarmament. Council members said they wanted to hear what the two thought of the new inspection regime crafted by the United States and United Kingdom. "Our role is to establish the facts; its for the Security Council to evaluate the facts and determine whether these facts constitute material breach and what is the next step to be taken by the council," ElBaradei said. "This is a council prerogative." Neither official would go into the specifics of the proposed regime with reporters after briefing the council, but both said it was important that the regime be fully backed by the council. "The intention is in the draft resolution to give very clear signals as to what we can do and to avoid what people have referred to as 'cat-and-mouse' play. It is helpful," Blix said. British Ambassador Jeremy Greenstock said council members "have a better idea now of what precisely the inspectors need. ... We will need further time to absorb what we have heard." He added, "We're talking about the clarity of what the resolution says. We're talking about the inspectors and the council being at one about the powers that they have. This is a cooperative process, not an adversarial one." The United States said the inspectors welcomed the tougher regime outlined in the U.S. draft. "I think it's clear from their comments that they welcome that authority that will strengthen their hand and give them the opportunity to do the job the council has asked them to do. We were pleased with that," said Deputy Ambassador James Cunningham. Although France and Russia have circulated their own drafts on inspections, both of which envision less stringent inspection regimes, Blix and ElBaradei limited themselves to comments on the U.S. text since it is the only one of the three formally before the council (Jim Wurst, UN Wire, Oct. 29). Blix said he was pleased the U.S. resolution gives inspectors the authority to decide the methods for interviewing Iraqi weapons scientists, but warned that there would be "great practical difficulties" in removing the scientists from Iraq for the interviews, as the U.S. resolution provides. A demand in the U.S. resolution for Iraq to provide a complete declaration of its chemical and biological weapons capabilities 30 days after the resolution is approved, however, would not be practical, Blix said. He and ElBaradei asked the Security Council members to help provide intelligence information on which suspect Iraqi sites inspectors should visit, but also said inspectors would only report to the council (Julia Preston, New York Times, Oct. 29). If the Security Council cannot agree on a new inspections regime, however, then the inspectors probably will not return to Iraq, Blix said. He indicated that there could be dangers in sending inspectors to Iraq without the full approval of the council. It is "almost inconceivable" to return inspectors to Iraq "while half of the council wants us to be there and the other half of the council does not want us to be there," Blix said. "Let me stress that from the inspectors' horizon, council unity is of the greatest importance," he said. "We have difficulty in acting with full strength if we feel that we do not have the backing" (Allen/Lynch, Washington Post, Oct. 29). U.S-French Compromises Negotiations on the new resolution are still progressing and might continue into next week, Bush administration officials at the United Nations said. The United States and France have neared a compromise on the language of the new resolution on Iraq, according to the New York Times. U.S. and French officials have agreed that the resolution would contain language in its final paragraphs warning Iraq of "serious consequences" if it fails to disarm -- a euphemism for military action, according to the Times (Preston, New York Times). France might also agree to a U.S. demand to also include the phrase "material breach" in the resolution -- which the United States believes would create the authority for military action -- but only if the Security Council has the authority to determine if Iraq has committed such a breach, according to the Los Angeles Times. Much of the debate over the resolution on Iraq has centered on the phrase, which means a violation of a resolution, according to the Times.
RE: Question for everyone
At 08:03 29-10-2002 +0530, Ritu Ko wrote: > Because if you (plural) do not convince him that his behaviour is in > dire need of improvement, you (plural) will have to put up with his > arrogance and his personal attacks (among other things) over and over > again. But surely if the latter doesn't seem like such a big problem, then the 'direness' of the former disappears and we can all just relax and talk of something else. Giorgis habitually uses personal attacks as a means to "win" a discussion; I am shocked to see that you think of that as something that is not "such a big problem". Jeroen "The only good Giorgis is a silent Giorgis" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
- Original Message - From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Question for everyone > At 21:00 28-10-2002 -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: > > > >I am not suggesting we do that to Giorgis's posts. I am trying to get > > >the message across that he should clean up his act and stop misbehaving > > >on this list. > > > > >Wouldn't a "dinging" system be a step in accomplishing that? If his (or > >anyone's) behavior aggravated enough people, the dings would add up, and > >maybe the person in question would get the message that his behavior is > >not in keeping with IAAMOAC? > > With some people, yes -- but not with Giorgis. Over the years, he has been > talked to by several people about his behaviour, but he has never shown any > signs of improvement. So, why should anyone believe that the dinging system > will suddenly get him to accept that he has been misbehaving, and get him > to shape up? Isn't the real problem that he has modified his behavior in response to group requests? Many folks asked both you and him to stop having flamewars online. Then, when he killfiled you in order to accommodate this; you kvetched. Then when he decided to take the discussion offline, you put it back online. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
At 21:00 28-10-2002 -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: >I am not suggesting we do that to Giorgis's posts. I am trying to get >the message across that he should clean up his act and stop misbehaving >on this list. > Wouldn't a "dinging" system be a step in accomplishing that? If his (or anyone's) behavior aggravated enough people, the dings would add up, and maybe the person in question would get the message that his behavior is not in keeping with IAAMOAC? With some people, yes -- but not with Giorgis. Over the years, he has been talked to by several people about his behaviour, but he has never shown any signs of improvement. So, why should anyone believe that the dinging system will suddenly get him to accept that he has been misbehaving, and get him to shape up? Jeroen "The only good Giorgis is a silent Giorgis" van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Column in Washington Post
There's Sheer Wizardry In Us Muggles By Chris Mooney http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20034-2002Oct25.html Enthusiastic praise of muggles. Julia hoping she gave enough info to go with the URL; *constructive* criticism welcomed ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
smoke
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20021029-_1m29smoke.html Scripps scientists link chemical in tobacco with onset of diseases By Bruce Lieberman UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER October 29, 2002 A naturally present chemical in tobacco may contribute to the onset of diabetes, cancer, aging and Alzheimer's, two scientists at The Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla have found. The chemical, called nornicotine, "cooks" the body's proteins, triggering the same reaction that turns burned sugar brown and causes food to spoil. "Nornicotine permanently and irreversibly modifies proteins, which can affect their overall function," said Scripps biological chemist Kim D. Janda. Janda and Scripps researcher Tobin J. Dickerson have published their study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The paper appeared online yesterday and will be in print later this year. Nornicotine also was found to react with prescription steroids, such as cortisone and prednisone, potentially making them more toxic, Janda and Dickerson found. In their study, titled "A previously undescribed chemical link between smoking and metabolic disease," the scientists found that nornicotine attaches itself permanently to steroids and certain amino acids on the surface of proteins. Amino acids are the chemical building blocks of proteins. Proteins, encoded by DNA, form the key structural elements in cells and are responsible for all the cell's activities. Once nornicotine modifies these steroids and proteins, the new molecules interact with other chemicals in the body and create new compounds. Among them are a variety of compounds known as advanced glycation endproducts, which have been implicated in numerous diseases including diabetes, cancer, atherosclerosis and Alzheimer's. "These advanced glycation endproducts are not supposed to be (present in your body) naturally," said Dickerson. "Your body is not prepared for them." Janda and Dickerson, testing the blood of 20 smokers and nonsmokers, found that the smokers had higher levels of proteins that had been modified by nornicotine than nonsmokers. The smokers also had higher levels of the advanced glycation endproducts. Nornicotine, unlike nicotine, persists in the bloodstream, suggesting that the chemical may contribute to tobacco addiction, Janda and Dickerson said. The chemical nornicotine is present in all tobacco products, including cigarettes and chewing tobacco, and in nicotine gum and patches. "It's been thought of as a little bystander," Janda said, adding that he plans to study nornicotine in nicotine gum and patches. Their study was supported by the Skaggs Institute for Chemical Biology at The Scripps Research Institute. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: I'm just getting burned out.
In a message dated 10/29/2002 9:42:43 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Welcome to the cynic's club. Easy to get in, hard to get out. Try not to stay too long, it doesn't become someone with your sense of humor. Jean-Louis Bitter cynic >> Marry someone who's mild. Great fun at pubs. Who's Line Is It Anyway came on at 1AM. That wasn't too long. And for the half year I spent in Los Angeles, I always listened to Cynic's Choice on the radio. The main hype from the shooting came from the fact that he died falling on a backpack. So it had to be assumed that it was a bomb. And since there were signs everywhere that it was a gun free zone, no teacher or security guard was there to shoot the guy as he climbed from the second to the forth floor. Since he was a Gulf War veteran, instead of using this as a reason to get rid of all guns, why not work to get rid of all veterans--through old age. It'll be nice when we have no need for new ones. NBL soon, but eventually. William Taylor -- (Not bloody likely) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
In a message dated 10/29/2002 9:50:25 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking to emulate the rat and cockroach as employment survival models - is that so wrong? >> Ask Archy. Though Freddy didn't last very long. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: test
Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: >My opinion on listmail is that if you don't like what somebody has >to say, ignore it. Good advice, Sonja. Not everyone seems to be able to just ignore some things that annoy them about others, though. I'm not sure how they're going to learn that skill. >One thing I did observe with increasing amazement is that most on >this list were very paranoid against the 'powers of Jeroen' who in >effect never did anything, and didn't have the power to do anything >much at that, to warrent that extreme form of paranoia shown. Except that he owns Brin-L.com, and has already proven once before to be more than willing to use it as his personal soapbox on the ills of the list. To be fair, that may be what has some people "paranoid." >Only... now that Nick is list administrator or should I say in effect >list owner. most of you are also just as happy to enter on the >road of censorship by setting up a dinging system. only thing >I can say is that it feels strange very strange that everybody so >paranoid toward Jeroen without any power to speak of is so trusting >all at once toward Nick who in effect holds all the power on this >list. I *believe* the dinging system is intended to be for everyone to use, not just Nick. I understand that you may be saying Nick could censor someone on the Q.T., but I imagine he could already do that if he so desired. I certainly hope that will never happen/ >I feel that if you are upset enough to ding someone you should at >least have the courage to stand by that and accept the consequenses >be it mailbombing or whatever. I agree that it should be public, perhaps even with an explanation. I certainly *hope* that the dingee would not resort to mailbombs, though. :) >As people in Europe keep saying you cannot in advance punish someone >for something that person hasn't yet done. Admittedly a very un-US >standpoint at the moment but in my opinion it still holds. It's only become an un-US attitude in the past year and seven weeks or so. I suppose it's the old "a liberal is just a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet" attitude. I don't agree entirely with the pre-emptive strike idea, but I don't totally disagree with it either. Anyway... >The thing that struck me somewhat is that DB is the one suggesting >this system. [as mentioned by Nick system">]. For an advocate of transperancy and the >one who coined >the idea of IAAMOAC I feel that DB (if this is indeed true), by >suggesting the introduction of a dinging system, has just lost a >considerable number of credits on my scale of respect. Do we know if he intended for the dings to be anonymous? Anyone? >BUT I'm really absolutely totally completely sick and tired of >people telling me what an 'ignorant fool', 'arrogant basterd' >or 'fucking son of a bitch' etc my husband is. Well, that's just plain messed up. The folks that have the temerity to insult your husband to you in such a way need a serious lesson in manners at the very least. Jeroen can be difficult at times, and yes he bugs me sometimes as I do him, I'm sure, but I can't imagine asking you to handle it, and especially not accompanied by that kind of disparagement. Shame on those of you that did that. Seriously. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
- Original Message - From: "Adam C. Lipscomb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 10:49 AM Subject: Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering... > considering the telecommunications company for which I > work had pretty big layoffs yesterday (25% of the > workforce got axed). I found out late in the morning > that I was saved from being cut at the last minute, > although I did get demoted from a salaried position to > hourly. > > This was upsetting at first, but the more I think > about it the better I feel. That's good. I've been where you are too many times. The oil patch is cyclical, while employment in the oil patch has been a downward spiral for the last 20 years. I've been through cycles of 50% layoffs, 80% layoffs, and 50% layoffs, getting caught myself in the last one. One of the hardest things about remaining is survivor's guilt. However, most of the folks that I know who have been laid off are better off within a year. Its considered a trueism. I'll admit, working for a technical company, I've got a biased sample, but then again you are too. Even when unemployment was at 10% back in the bad early 80s, folks bounced back fairly well. So, its OK to feel bad, if you do; but it still helps to know intellectually that folks usually do get through layoffs just fine. Indeed, its often the survivors who have the tougher row to hoe. > (1) I can get overtime pay again. Since I normally > pull about 43-44 hours a week, it should help my > bottom line. > (2) Fewer meetings and conference calls. > (3) I don't have to do annual reviews for my > employees. > (4) If I get promoted to supervisor again in the > future, I'll probably get another raise. > That all sounds reasonable. And demotions in the presence of massive layoffs means that the company is working hard to keep you because they think you are valuable. > And people say bootlicking and toadyism don't pay off. Are you positive its not that you've demonstrated your worth? I know it may not be the ideal time to argue with you, but you might consider that you were kept because that was a sound business decision. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Parenting advise from an old man who's done a lot of parenting
Dan Minette wrote: > I thought this might be a good time to offer general parenting advise for > those list members who have small children. I've noticed three things from > my near quarter century of parenting. > > 1) The single most difficult task for parents to teach children is to > accept responsibility for their own actions. They tend to say that other > people made them do it, argue for technical legalistic interpretations that > show that the didn't really break the rules, technically. > > 2) Children tend to model their behavior after their parents > > 3) The time to work on the behavior of your teenagers is when they are > under 8. > Thank you for the advice but I already knew that and I am acting accordingly. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: I'm just getting burned out.
- Original Message - From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:34 AM Subject: Re: I'm just getting burned out. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Three nursing teachers killed at our University Medical Center. The gunman > > makes four. > > > > And my first reaction when the police hold a news conference? > > > > Well, there goes Jeopardy. > > > > Not a very nice thought, but it must be becoming pandemic. > > I'd've thought the same sort of thing if they'd pre-empted Jeapordy here > for a news conference. I'm still coming off the rough time from last > week (nothing like being left alone for a week with a small child and > two dogs who like to dig, at a time when the week fell into a 10-day > stretch of rain falling every day and very little sunshine for the whole > time, so it's gloomy and a lot of mud ends up in the house), though, so > I hope it's a temporary condition in my case. :) One of the things that strikes me is how we single out certain deaths for national/international concern. I remember driving by an auto accident a few days after Princess Diana died. There was a car smashed under an 18 wheeler. I cannot imagine how people lived through it. IIRC, 4 people died, but it barely made the local news. Yet, 4 people in Arizona is enough to interrupt regular scheduled programming. I don't think its really compassion that's lacking when we don't want to spend a lot of time on these deaths. Every death is a loss; thousands per day are lives cut tragically short. Yet, we cannot be emotionally tied to each one. The fact that we do not want to focus more on a particular subset is not an indication of being hard hearted, IMHO. Dan M. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question for everyone
"J. van Baardwijk" wrote: > "The only good Giorgis is a silent Giorgis" Wrong! We as a list extend the same curtesy to you as we do to John. We tolerate everybodies opinion, even if we think it is far off. We are not into shutting anybody up even if some people would like to do so very much. So even though the argument is getting very tired you are welcome to express your opinion over and over and over. just as is John. Only this, I think that John isn't one of the nicest and most rational people around, but I'm sure that is only his on-line personallity. I got this impression from some rather heated and really very unpleasant personal e-mail exchanges ( that I really don't like to remember) with him somewhere far in the past. Sonja IAAMOAC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: I'm just getting burned out.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Three nursing teachers killed at our University Medical Center. The gunman > makes four. > > And my first reaction when the police hold a news conference? > > Well, there goes Jeopardy. > > Not a very nice thought, but it must be becoming pandemic. I'd've thought the same sort of thing if they'd pre-empted Jeapordy here for a news conference. I'm still coming off the rough time from last week (nothing like being left alone for a week with a small child and two dogs who like to dig, at a time when the week fell into a 10-day stretch of rain falling every day and very little sunshine for the whole time, so it's gloomy and a lot of mud ends up in the house), though, so I hope it's a temporary condition in my case. :) Julia who probably won't get to see Jeapordy today, due to having to pick up the shaggier dog from a grooming that will make it a *lot* easier to get the mud off her underside for the next few weeks, anyway ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
test
I've now read all messages in this thread. One off, I can right away say that the total thread makes me feel very queasy. It looks like a 'witch' hunt is sweeping brin-l and everybody is dancing around the fire in a kind of fever, very eager to get some one fried no matter the cost. For people who advocate freedom of speech the 'shutting people up' sentiment is awfully well established. For myself I've got to say that I defended Mark once when his behaviour got really annoying and I'll defend Jeroen now for the same reason. My opinion on listmail is that if you don't like what somebody has to say, ignore it. People have a right to an opinion, fortunatly others have just as much right to ignore it. Use that right. Use filters, be it just mere mental or state of the art electronical, you are equipped with them for a reason. Now for the rest of this very long mail, indeed exceptionally long for me. One thing I did observe with increasing amazement is that most on this list were very paranoid against the 'powers of Jeroen' who in effect never did anything, and didn't have the power to do anything much at that, to warrent that extreme form of paranoia shown. Except maybe the transgression of publishing the subscriber list after being taunted into doing so. At most one can say he was annoying, ignorant,... stupid even maybe to fall for the taunt, but nothing more. Most were happy enough to be dancing on his grave when Eileen pulled the plug on him as list administrator under the probably valid excuse of possible problems with Cornell. Only... now that Nick is list administrator or should I say in effect list owner. most of you are also just as happy to enter on the road of censorship by setting up a dinging system. And (if I understood correctly) without prior knowledge or anouncement at that I might add. Just as with the list tests we stumbled upon this. I do respect that Nick supplying the infrastructure does have the power to do that and doesn't need asking any of us for permission, indeed. However realising this, even more disturbing do I find the fact that he is actually using that power in consent with the other listowners. It feels like the testing (without any knowledge or participation or even an invitation toward any of the regular listmembers) of the new list. It only made some dust waft and settle quickly. Considering all this, only thing I can say is that it feels strange very strange that everybody so paranoid toward Jeroen without any power to speak of is so trusting all at once toward Nick who in effect holds all the power on this list. = Out of context from exchange between Debbi and Nick: Debbi: > I must once again respectfully disagree. Anonymous dings, no matter the > value they are given, go against the idea of transparency. If > someone dings > me, I want to know who did it. Nick: I'm sure you do... but I don't think transparency need be carried that far, necessarily. = It's the formulation that just struck me. Mentioning this would have caused a major upheavel if it had been said by anybody else but Nick, in or out of context. I find that very disturbing even if I can see that the reason for the desired anonymity as posed by Nick is a valid one. On this subject I remember one person who countered the argument by calling someone hiding behind anonymous dings a coward. I tend to agree. I feel that if you are upset enough to ding someone you should at least have the courage to stand by that and accept the consequenses be it mailbombing or whatever. At least then the reason to remove someone from the list would be provable and valid. As people in Europe keep saying you cannot in advance punish someone for something that person hasn't yet done. Admittedly a very un-US standpoint at the moment but in my opinion it still holds. As for = Nick: the heuristics could assure that even if *everyone* actively involved in the list dinged the same person anonymously, the effect would still be relatively minimal. = To which I say : so why bother. The venom will still arive but later and as Jeroen IMO correctly pointed out it will only prolong the unpleasantness. That is unless the next stage is indeed the introduction of censorship in which case this introduction of dinging would make much sense. = Nick: Remember, we're not talking about blocking messages, just delaying them. It is quite literally a moderating effect. = It's an effect already achieved by people not being on line continuously and the large time-zone differences of the members on this list. Especially when considering the antagonists (the ones we are all aware off that is) delaying messages further will get the most venomous ones only in the midst of the most heated discussions. I really feel that the introduction of dinging is the admittance that we as a group have failed miserably on account of the IAAMOAC credo. The thing that struck me some
Well, I'm feeling pretty good, considering...
considering the telecommunications company for which I work had pretty big layoffs yesterday (25% of the workforce got axed). I found out late in the morning that I was saved from being cut at the last minute, although I did get demoted from a salaried position to hourly. This was upsetting at first, but the more I think about it the better I feel. (1) I can get overtime pay again. Since I normally pull about 43-44 hours a week, it should help my bottom line. (2) Fewer meetings and conference calls. (3) I don't have to do annual reviews for my employees. (4) If I get promoted to supervisor again in the future, I'll probably get another raise. And people say bootlicking and toadyism don't pay off. Heh. Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking to emulate the rat and cockroach as employment survival models - is that so wrong? __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: I'm just getting burned out.
William Taylor wrote : > Three nursing teachers killed at our University Medical Center. The gunman > makes four. > > And my first reaction when the police hold a news conference? > > Well, there goes Jeopardy. > > Not a very nice thought, but it must be becoming pandemic. Welcome to the cynic's club. Easy to get in, hard to get out. Try not to stay too long, it doesn't become someone with your sense of humor. Jean-Louis Bitter cynic ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Some things are too good to last
Alberto Monteiro wrote: > > William Taylor wrote: > > > >P.S. A single female on our list should dress up as a large > >biologist/gardener alien in a tasteful pink dress with matching pillbox hat. > >Let's see how long it takes someone to figure out that she's dressed as a > >Jackie-O-Linten. > > > No, no, no. The men and women in the list should act in an assertive > way, showing that we abhor terrorism and those that support it. > > So, all women should be naked, and the men should drink > alchoholic beverages during Halloween. I'd say "I'll drink to that", but by the above, I ought not be drinking, but rather getting naked. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Some things are too good to last
De : Alberto Monteiro [mailto:albmont@;centroin.com.br] > No, no, no. The men and women in the list should act in an assertive > way, showing that we abhor terrorism and those that support it. > > So, all women should be naked, and the men should drink > alchoholic beverages during Halloween. I suggest drinking Halloween floats : 1 part blond beer (eg. lager) with orange coloring 1 part Guinness which should float on the lager! Jean-Louis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Some things are too good to last
De : Alberto Monteiro [mailto:albmont@;centroin.com.br] > No, no, no. The men and women in the list should act in an assertive > way, showing that we abhor terrorism and those that support it. > > So, all women should be naked, and the men should drink > alchoholic beverages during Halloween. I'd be all for that if it wasn't that temperatures are nearing zero these days. We'll stick to the alcohol part. Naked good, hypothermia bad. (Especially when my wife sticks her freezing feet on my until-then warm legs) Jean-Louis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Smoking Cats
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:brin-l-bounces@;mccmedia.com]On > Behalf Of Ronn Blankenship > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:35 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Smoking Cats > > > At 10:21 PM 10/28/02, William Taylor wrote: > > > >--- > >Poul Anderson's Bran Wave > > > > Is that a new cereal which guarantees regularity? Sounds to me like it would promote regular brain dumps. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Smoking Cats
At 10:53 PM 10/28/02, Deborah Harrell wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [I quoted:] > > << In households where they were exposed five > years or more, cats had more than triple the risk. > In a two-smoker household, the risk went up by a > factor of four." >> > > Cats ignore whoever they want to, whenever they want > to. > I can just see the frustration of a lawyer trying to > sign up a tabby for a class action suite. And since there's an obesity epidemic among pets (dogs and cats, anyway), would Fido sue his best friend for giving in to those oh-so-sad-eyes and slipping buttered-toast-and-bacon to the pooch? D. J. only eats proper cat food. He weighed 17 pounds the last time he was at the vet. (He has been up to 18.) Fat? No. Slow? Hardly. He can, however, stand on the floor on his hind legs and stick his nose in the sink . . . Somewhere I read that there are fitness clubs promoting "bring your dog to the track" to encourage jogging. (My former neighbor actually had a cat who would jog a slow 1/2 mile with her, then turn back home. Before he broke a leg and couldn't climb the fence, The first time Andy let someone back over him, it broke one of his hind legs. He still took off running and went over at least one fence before stopping under the neighbor's storage shed (a place he frequently went to cool off on hot days). When he got home from the vet with a pin in that leg, the vet's instructions were to keep him locked up because he wouldn't be able to fight or run from other neighborhood cats looking for a fight. Of course, he had to be taken out of the cage in order to clean it. I put him on the patio in the back yard while I cleaned the cage the first time. Within seconds, he was over the gate so he could see what was going on and supervise . . . --Ronn! :) , D.J. =^.^= , and Midnight =^.^= , Spot (1992-96), and Andy (1989-99) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
