Re: Anyone for zMud slinging on Tuesday night?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1 Nov 2004, at 9:55 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are going to be watching the TV with one eye Tuesday night, and on the computer with the other. then how about having the Brin-L room up and running? It'll be there if anyone wants to use it. I'll try to join the crowd, if there is one that is. :o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Personal: My brag and my fear...
In a message dated 11/2/2004 12:31:45 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is the chat room going to work tomorrow? yes, but ithink no one will do so untul evening news hour. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Predictions, and this explains everything
At 10:55 PM 11/1/2004 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: >There are several factors that lead me to believe that Kerry will win >tomorrow. The youth vote that you mentioned is one. I also think that >lower income voters (another group that is not easily polled) will turn >out in record numbers and vote heavily for Kerry. I should point out that pollsters use weighting to account for these things.Thus, the problem with the youth vote and the low-income vote isn't that they are "not easily polled", it is that the appropriate weight for this vote may be hard to predict. > I also think that Iraq >will keep many Republicans home tomorrow. I think that you are wrong on this. The Iraq War is actually the one thing that still motivates many Republicans. Where you could be right is that when "independents" and "swing voters" get into the voting booth, that all the problems in Iraq will convince them that we just simply need a change. JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Predictions, and this explains everything
Gautam Mukunda wrote: > > Whoever wins (my final prediction) I don't think it > will be as close as people think it will be. I think > we'll know by Wednesday morning. This with more > confidence than my actual pick for the victory. > How weird. In Brazil, we know the outcome of the elections a couple of hours after the end of them. In Democratic Iraq, we knew it even before iraqians had voted! [100% for Saddam] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction and Elections
Miron Murcury wrote: > > There is a Heinline novel about an actor who becomes > President of Earth. > Double Star And in RAH's Future History, the USA becomes a religious dictatorship by 2012 - which means that Kerry will win in 2004, he will be re-elected in 2008, and lose in 2012 by one of the Bush daughters :-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: National ID card
Ruben Krasnopolsky wrote: > > What's the big deal with a national ID card? > It's stupid and 20thcenturish. The right thing to do is to create a World Name Database, and enforce that every child's name is unique. Then forget about numeric IDs and just use the registered name Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Predicted electoral votes listed by state....
Julia wrote... > Oh, you mean the site that John and I discussed last week, > John slamming it for using polls that don't have very good > accuracy? :) Oops, sorry :-) I don't always follow every thread... Sorry for the double posting! Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Setting back the clock
> Behalf Of Ruben Krasnopolsky > Also during wartime, he made completely unnecessary > cultural divisions in the American public > - for instance, no one really needed the discussion > about a gay marriage amendment right now. > Bush is counting on this; that can explain why he > has been fanning the fires of cultural divisions in the USA. > Harming the people of the USA *during war* for a > possible political advantage. This second part completely explains the first. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Predicted electoral votes listed by state....
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:37:48 -0600, Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Try reading this as it is very very interesting: > http://www.electoral-vote.com/info/votemaster-faq.html As soon as I saw his name (Andrew Tannenbaum), I thought "Gee - is that the Andrew S. Tannenbaum who wrote the Computer Networks textbook I used in college (and later taught from as a TA in grad school)?". Yep, it is. He may or may not know a lot about proper polling methodology, but he certainly knows computer networking. My favorite bit of geek humor from his book (paraphrased, since I can't find the exact quote right now) : "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of magnetic tapes driving down the highway". -Bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Predictions, and this explains everything
> Behalf Of Nick Arnett > I've always found a bit bizarre not to have to show id to vote, given how > important it is. IIRC, around here, at least, you do have to > show id if > it's the first time you've voted. I guess that cuts down on > the number > of voters that can be invented... Weird. I just got done voting and, here in Missouri, we had to show some sort of identification to vote. If I recall correctly, it could be 1) a drivers licence/state id, 2) a voter registration card or 3) a college ID. I think there was a fourth one but I can't recall what it was. And the election judges were pretty good about verifying that your signature in the little book matched the signature on your ID. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: National ID card
> What's the big deal with a national ID card? > It would prevent voting fraud. > It would help transparency in many other ways - So, why not? > Well, I guess it can be used for government control, and not > always in benign ways. True enough. > But right now there *are* many ways for the government to do > just that - there are lots of IDs issued by the federal and > state governments - passports, driver licences, SSN, birth > certificates... > Are you people so sure that unifying that into a single > national ID would make the risks much worse? > Here I suggest it would increase the transparency of the > system without reducing the privacy much more than it already > has been. Here is the problem with a national ID card. The federal facility that I work at uses a secure Common Access Card, affectionately known as the "CAC". This is the same card that most DoD and military personnel use and is the precursor to the national ID card. This card has an embedded chip with selected pieces of personal information: SSN, birthday, blood type, etc. These cards are used to get computer access at virtually every computer in this building (about 3000+ computers). To use the CAC to access a computer, the user has to have the CAC and their Personal ID Number (PIN). The CAC is placed in a reader that is on EVERY computer, the computer prompts the user for a PIN number and then authenticates the PIN number and the certificate on the CAC with a central server. The PIN and the cert on the CAC must match the PIN and cert on the server for access. Except for the rocket scientist users that write their PIN on the CAC with a permanent marker (which is highly illegal) it is a VERY secure system. Even if someone steals or finds a CAC, it is useless without the PIN. It would not be impossible to forge a card, but it would be significantly more difficult to place an authentic cert and PIN on the server to use a forged card. It would require a major hacker or an inside person. About 3 months ago, the server, that authenticates the CAC, experienced a problem that made the server think that all CAC certs had expired. For TWO days, there were 15,000+ federal employees sitting at their desk doing nothing because they could not access ANY computer system in the building. The short term fix was to disable the CAC requirement, therefore making the entire system useless. Imagine this, all citizens have a federal ID card. To make it secure and worthwhile, it must be verified by a centralized authority (if not, what's the point, anyone could forge a fake?) You go to buy something at the store, or renew your license, or get medical treatment, and your national ID card won't authenticate because there are server problems / power failure / hardware or software issues, etc - you get the point. Then you are stuck. Disabling the authentication process defeats the purpose of the system. If there isn't some sort of centralized authentication, then the cards can EASILY be forged by anyone with a good computer, and again there is no point to the system. So do you really want to be in a position of not being allowed to buy groceries because your local Kroger store had hardware problems? Or because there was a power failure or backbone failure between you and the centralized authentication authority? A national ID card sounds like a good idea in theory, but the technology is nowhere near reliable enough to make this a reliable system. By the way, a while back I posted an article about Donald Rumsfeld wanting to make it MANDATORY for every computer sold in the US to require a secured card to allow use - even home computers. I can dig up that article if anyone is interested. Gary _ The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: MONSTER'S DEADLY WARNING TO 'RED' STATES
On Nov 1, 2004, at 8:53 PM, Robert G. Seeberger wrote: Let's Just Kill Him Maru We probably could and would have, except there was a score to settle in Iraq. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Predicted electoral votes listed by state....
On Nov 1, 2004, at 8:37 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: Unfortunately for John, this site is the most respected electoral site on the web, getting 6 times as many hits as its closest competitor. Try reading this as it is very very interesting: http://www.electoral-vote.com/info/votemaster-faq.html From the site: "I am a professor of computer science at the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam, The Netherlands." Are we at war with them yet? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: National ID card
On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 12:22:20PM -0500, Gary Nunn wrote: > A national ID card sounds like a good idea in theory, but the > technology is nowhere near reliable enough to make this a reliable > system. Not true. The technology for a distributed, redundant, fault-tolerant system defintely exists. Look at, for example, the Internet domain name server (DNS) system. Or google.com. The problem is whether people are willing to spend the time and resources necessary to design, set up, and maintain such a system. Evidently in the system you described, they were not. (Two days to come up with the "short term" solution of disabling the security? Obviously no one had gone through and anticipated various scenarios and formulated plans of action, let alone having designed the system robustly in the first place). -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: National ID card
Gary Nunn wrote: >Imagine this, all citizens have a federal ID card. To make it secure and >worthwhile, it must be verified by a centralized authority (if not, what's >the point, anyone could forge a fake?) You go to buy something at the >store, or renew your license, or get medical treatment, and your national ID >card won't authenticate because there are server problems / power failure / >hardware or software issues, etc - you get the point. Then you are stuck. >Disabling the authentication process defeats the purpose of the system. > >If there isn't some sort of centralized authentication, then the cards can >EASILY be forged by anyone with a good computer, and again there is no point >to the system. I respectfully disagree that this technical point kills the idea. An efficient national ID card system can do the authentication without needing to access a central computer. You are right that this would make the system prone to failure. So let's go for parallel computing rather than centralized... And with lots of backups. IDs are always used with different levels of authentication for different purposes. For trivial use of the card, quick visual examination would be enough. For slightly more serious usage, something like a signature or a fingerprint could be quickly checked. For something more serious, the card could be checked, this time by computer, against some local state government database. For a few really serious things, centralized checking would be used. But rarely. Occasionally the centralized checking system will be down so badly that it will pull down the local databases too. Creating major trouble; but no more frequently than the times when the power grid is down. Been there, Detroit over one year ago... I still think that the good arguments against this kind of ID are about politics, privacy, and freedom. What if this ID is used to enforce unjust laws? Technical arguments, I would take as guides to improve the design. Ruben ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: National ID card
On Nov 2, 2004, at 9:22 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: What's the big deal with a national ID card? It would prevent voting fraud. It would help transparency in many other ways - So, why not? Here is the problem with a national ID card. It would not be impossible to forge a card, but it would be significantly more difficult to place an authentic cert and PIN on the server to use a forged card. It would require a major hacker or an inside person. Let's just hope it isn't implemented by Diebold. So do you really want to be in a position of not being allowed to buy groceries because your local Kroger store had hardware problems? Or because there was a power failure or backbone failure between you and the centralized authentication authority? Why would this be the case? I don't have to show any ID to buy groceries now... Do you think that the mere existence of a national ID would change how how we do all business? Would I have to have my ID verified to buy a hot dog from the vendor at a ball game? Would I even go to a ball game? A national ID card sounds like a good idea in theory, but the technology is nowhere near reliable enough to make this a reliable system. By the way, despite my argument with your Kroger example (are they still in business?), I have no argument with your fundamental point, that any system that has a central authorization system therefore has a single point of failure. I worked for Sun Microsystems 'til a couple of years ago, and they were quite hot on the idea of national ID cards at the time. Of course, that's because the cards (including your beloved CAC) use Java[tm] technology and because they figured that they'd get a big chunk of the back-end server business. The one think they have going for them is that they are promoting a federated, rather than centralized, authority model. That way, you'd only be prevented from purchasing paw-paws at Kroger's if the store's network was down. You could always go down the street to the A&P (are they still in business?). By the way, a while back I posted an article about Donald Rumsfeld wanting to make it MANDATORY for every computer sold in the US to require a secured card to allow use - even home computers. I can dig up that article if anyone is interested. This from the party that promised to "get the government off the backs of the people." If I was a Republican, I'd be embarrassed. Thankfully, I'm not. Dave Can We See Your Papers Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: National ID card
> Not true. The technology for a distributed, redundant, > fault-tolerant system definitely exists. Look at, for example, > the Internet domain name server (DNS) system. Or google.com. > > The problem is whether people are willing to spend the time > and resources necessary to design, set up, and maintain such a system. > Evidently in the system you described, they were not. (Two > days to come up with the "short term" solution of disabling > the security? Obviously no one had gone through and > anticipated various scenarios and formulated plans of action, > let alone having designed the system robustly in the first place). Everything that you said about the technology is absolutely true, to some degree, however, there is still the possibility of hardware or software failure at the scanning point, and many places in between. Do you remember a few years ago when corrupted copies of the DNS were distributed and a significant portion of the internet was useless for a few hours? I can dig up some references if you are interested. A centralized or distributed authority would have to have significantly more security and accountability than the DNS system has today. As for the problem that I used as an example, everyone was aware of the "short term" solution in the first 30 seconds of the problem, but it all came down to one contractor in Florida making the decision that the system would NOT be disabled, even at the expense of paying 15,000+ employees for two days to literally sit and do nothing. >From a security standpoint, that was the correct decision, but from a practical standpoint, how many millions of dollars were lost in salaries and lost productivity? In essence, you are right, it comes down to system design, planning and policy. But my fear would be what happens when your card can't be authenticated. Would there be a contingency plan? Would a contingency plan that bypasses authentication defeat the purpose of the system? Cards go bad, are damaged, lost, destroyed, people forget their PIN number, etc - that happens EVERY day here. Based on my experiences here with a secured ID card, a national ID card system would be disastrous. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: National ID card
Serious comment, now . . . At 12:08 PM Tuesday 11/2/04, Dave Land wrote: On Nov 2, 2004, at 9:22 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: What's the big deal with a national ID card? It would prevent voting fraud. It would help transparency in many other ways - So, why not? Here is the problem with a national ID card. It would not be impossible to forge a card, but it would be significantly more difficult to place an authentic cert and PIN on the server to use a forged card. It would require a major hacker or an inside person. Let's just hope it isn't implemented by Diebold. So do you really want to be in a position of not being allowed to buy groceries because your local Kroger store had hardware problems? Or because there was a power failure or backbone failure between you and the centralized authentication authority? Why would this be the case? I don't have to show any ID to buy groceries now... Do you think that the mere existence of a national ID would change how how we do all business? Would I have to have my ID verified to buy a hot dog from the vendor at a ball game? Um, what about the suggestions some have made of having your medical records stored in the National Health Care Database and every time you go to buy food, it checks and if you are overweight, have diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, or anything else, you won't be allowed to buy anything that someone has decided may be bad for your condition so you will not burden the National Health Care Service* excessively? Would I even go to a ball game? A national ID card sounds like a good idea in theory, but the technology is nowhere near reliable enough to make this a reliable system. By the way, despite my argument with your Kroger example (are they still in business?), I have no argument with your fundamental point, that any system that has a central authorization system therefore has a single point of failure. I worked for Sun Microsystems 'til a couple of years ago, and they were quite hot on the idea of national ID cards at the time. Of course, that's because the cards (including your beloved CAC) use Java[tm] technology and because they figured that they'd get a big chunk of the back-end server business. The one think they have going for them is that they are promoting a federated, rather than centralized, authority model. That way, you'd only be prevented from purchasing paw-paws at Kroger's if the store's network was down. You could always go down the street to the A&P (are they still in business?). By the way, a while back I posted an article about Donald Rumsfeld wanting to make it MANDATORY for every computer sold in the US to require a secured card to allow use - even home computers. I can dig up that article if anyone is interested. This from the party that promised to "get the government off the backs of the people." If I was a Republican, I'd be embarrassed. Thankfully, I'm not. Dave Can We See Your Papers Maru *Whenever You See The Word "Service" In The Name Of A Government Agency, Think Animal Husbandry Maru -- Ronn! :) "Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot remain in the cradle forever." -- Konstantin E. Tsiolkovskiy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: National ID card
At 12:08 PM Tuesday 11/2/04, Dave Land wrote: The one think they have going for them is that they are promoting a federated, rather than centralized, authority model. That way, you'd only be prevented from purchasing paw-paws at Kroger's if the store's network was down. You could always go down the street to the A&P What if my bladder does not need to be emptied? Old Joke Maru --Ronn! :) "Bathroom humor is an American-Standard." ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: National ID card
Ruben wrote > I respectfully disagree that this technical point kills the idea. WHAT? Didn't anyone tell you that when you disagree on this list that you have to be abrasive and condescending? Hey don't go disrupting the natural order of the Brin-L universe, other people might follow your example. :-) <---notice the smiley indicating jest > I still think that the good arguments against this kind of ID > are about politics, privacy, and freedom. What if this ID is > used to enforce unjust laws? > > Technical arguments, I would take as guides to improve the design. All good points, putting aside the technical issues, I think that Erik was absolutely right, it would come down to planning, design and policy. My fear is that Rumsfeld & Co. would get their way and we would be using an access card every time we check our email online or check out a book at the library. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: National ID card
Dave wrote... > Why would this be the case? I don't have to show any ID to > buy groceries now... Do you think that the mere existence of > a national ID would change how we do all business? Would > I have to have my ID verified to buy a hot dog from the > vendor at a ball game? Would I even go to a ball game? Very true, my example was extreme, and as Ruben mentioned, the card could come into play for various levels of purchases. Let's use a less extreme example, suppose you are stopped by the police for speeding / traffic violation and your card can't be authenticated? Then what? Do they let you go because the system is down? Do they arrest you because your credentials can't be verified? Will they be given the authority to detain you for hours while attempting to verify your credentials? With Homeland Security, we all know very well that any system can and will be abused. How many stories have we read about abuses at airports for incoming travelers being detained and strip searched? How many over zealous police or security personnel will arrest someone simply because their credentials can't be identified because the central authority is not available or the card is damaged or they forgot their card? Another example, that would not necessarily be extreme, would be purchasing airline tickets. The same potential problems apply. Here's another question, if we were to go to a national ID system, does that mean we require all foreign visitors / travelers to have some sort of national issued ID also? Even if you required foreign travelers to carry their passports, that is a system that can be easily defeated. I am a dual citizen and legally have passports for two countries, suppose I am asked for my national ID and I simply say that I am a foreigner, and by the way, here is my passport to prove it? Just thinking out loud :-) > By the way, despite my argument with your Kroger example (are > they still in business?), I have no argument with your > fundamental point, that any system that has a central > authorization system therefore has a single point of failure. Unfortunately, even if it wasn't a single point of failure issue, if you don't have a centralized authentication point, the system can be defeated. The more distributed the authentication becomes, the easier it would be to compromise the system and enter bogus credentials. > > By the way, a while back I posted an article about Donald Rumsfeld > > wanting to make it MANDATORY for every computer sold in the US to > > require a secured card to allow use - even home computers. > I can dig > > up that article if anyone is interested. > > This from the party that promised to "get the government off > the backs of the people." If I was a Republican, I'd be > embarrassed. Thankfully, I'm not. When I read this article I was floored. I can't imagine many more ways that the government could intrude on your privacy other than monitoring your computer use and internet access. If that had ever come to pass, it would have taken about 1 hour for someone to come up with a way to defeat the system. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: some final notes about the aftermath
--- JDG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 07:03 PM 11/1/2004 -0800 David Brin wrote: > >3) But above all, note the tactic. Attack me for > >bigotry for pointing to a map. But by all means > >IGNORE the main points of my message: > > > >That all the cheating in the news is one-sided > >That all the defections are one sided > >That we were promised indictments of the outgoing > >administration and it will happen... only 4 years > late. > > So all that high-falutin' "Civil War" and "Battle > Hymn of the Republic" stuff was just the "minor points" of your message? You see??? He did it again! This is fun. Come on John, let's see if you can avoid the issue again. HUNDREDS of prominent GOP and conservative defectors and more than 75 conservative newspapers in one direction, and NONE going the other way... But no, it's all right. I am in a GREAT mood! We are going to be able - tonight - to stand up before the world and say that our government was illegally hijacked by monsters in 2000. The last four years were not America's fault. And we have proved it by taking our country back. (And yes, by damn, I am glad we are going to do what we did in 1865. We will end the Confedarates' "culture war" against progress. And then, with "charity to all and malice toward none", we will welcome our red state brethren back to full participation in American politics - participation that THEY have denied the rest of us for four long years.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: some final notes about the aftermath
--- Ruben's right of course that my confederacy metaphor is a stretch. A piece of disreputable polemic for which I really oughta not be proud... but I'm nevertheless unashamed. In fact, the plains and rockies states were Dangeous Ground for the Union during the Civil War. Troops and governors kept mostly close to home because of rampant, seething pockets of Confederate sympathies. In any event, consider this. Today HALF of the Senate is elected by 16 percent of the voters, in rural states. Now it's not such a horrific political imbalance in practice. All four senators from the Dakotas are progressive/conservative Democrats and farm bills are largely bipartisan. Still, is it really fair? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Making Georgia howl...
Oh, ... doesn't "Chief Justice William Jefferson Clinton" have a GREAT ring to it? Har! That'd stick in their craws! It would call for a major blowout, tonight, though. Many new senators. Let's go for it kinda like Sherman having one last bit of fun before Linvoln offers "malice toward none..." ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The real translation of Osama's rant
This from Stefan Jones. It's circulating on Slashdot: --- ((Translation may be suspect.)) Infidels, your imperalist hubris is so decedent, you have a baseball tournament full of Americans and Canadians, yet you dare to call it the World Series. Your Simpsons show is not as funny as it used to be - instead of good character based comedy, it now relies on pathetic plot twists, deus ex machinae, and spurious trips abroad. Proof indeed, of a spiritual and intellectual bankruptcy. Your so-called candidates for the President, resemble respectively, a monkey and Mr. Ed, the talking horse. The zionists in Hollywood have defiled the sacred texts of Star Wars, in order to sell some more Jar-jar Binks dolls, and DVD's. Star Trek - Enterprise - ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! We mock your insipid theme tune, and the dopey one from Quantum Leap. Doom 3 - a perfect symbol of America - graphically glorious and slicker than a burning Iraqi oil well - but in your pathetic rush to count polygons, you forget the gameplay. Allah would pity you if you weren't already cursed. Contemporary American Fiction - ha - what was once the arena of real men, if infidels, like Hemingway and Faulkner, is now controlled by a middle-aged, black women from Chicago. I spit upon The Corrections and Don DeLillo has written nothing decent since Libra. And you are so fat, that when you sit around the house, you literally sit around the house. Inshallah, suckers! Oh, ... doesn't "Chief Justice William Jefferson Clinton" have a GREAT ring to it? Har! That'd stick in their craws! It would call for a major blowout, tonight, though. Many new senators. Let's go for it kinda like Sherman having one last bit of fun before Linvoln offers "malice toward none..." ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Electoral College (Was: Re: 2004 Presidential Race Analysis)
I am committing the 'evil' of not reading all posts in this thread before replying (else I'd be responding sometime next week, I fear!)... ...Not to mention top-posting! ;) > "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 03:49 AM 10/11/2004 -0400 Bryon Daly wrote: > >You say "electoral suicide", I say "democracy". > :-) That measure > >could conceivably give up to 50% of the CO voters > some impact on the > >election that would otherwise be written off. Why > >can't (or shouldn't) every state do this? > > The reason is that Colorado has 9 EV's, and after > the 2010 Census will > almost certainly have 10 EV's. Under the 9 EV > system, the loser of > Colorado needs to garner a mere 39% of the Colorado > vote to earn 4 EV's. > That leaves the winner of Colorado with 5 EV's. In > other words, > campaigning in Colorado would produce an expected > return of only a single > EV - a smaller expected return than WY, VT, or DE. Yet Hawaii, with its 4 EVs, got a visit from the veep over the past weekend! And if the split is not nearly 50-50 by popular vote, then the balance/net return would be proportionally greater (than 1). Debbi who apologizes if somebody already said this, and felt a teeny bit smug about avoiding the long lines to vote today (although a wait of 1.25 hours last Fri, in Early Voting, was hardly better!) :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The real translation of Osama's rant
Infidels, your imperalist hubris is so decedent, you have a baseball tournament full of Americans and Canadians, yet you dare to call it the World Series. Bah! Who cares? Your Simpsons show is not as funny as it used to be - instead of good character based comedy, it now relies on pathetic plot twists, deus ex machinae, and spurious trips abroad. Proof indeed, of a spiritual and intellectual bankruptcy. So, so (and dissappointingly true). He's got our number on this one... The zionists in Hollywood have defiled the sacred texts of Star Wars, in order to sell some more Jar-jar Binks dolls, and DVD's. I'm still waiting for the super long special edition gift set of the LotR with the add-in child interest character Jar-jaromir... Star Trek - Enterprise - ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! We mock your insipid theme tune, and the dopey one from Quantum Leap. Hee hee, I like both! Doom 3 - a perfect symbol of America - graphically glorious and slicker than a burning Iraqi oil well - but in your pathetic rush to count polygons, you forget the gameplay. Allah would pity you if you weren't already cursed. Just gotta play the game... And you are so fat, that when you sit around the house, you literally sit around the house. Oh yeah? Well yo mamma so fat... Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Legends Aussie Centurion Mk.5/1 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Predicted electoral votes listed by state....
- Original Message - From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: Re: Predicted electoral votes listed by state > Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 9:58 PM > > Subject: Re: Predicted electoral votes listed by state > > > > > Gary Nunn wrote: > > > > > > > > I know many of you see the same articles on ABCnews.com that I do, > > but I ran > > > > across this website buried in a technology article, so some of you > > may have > > > > missed it. > > > > > > > > This website shows the predicted electoral college votes per state > > based on > > > > polls. > > > > > > > > Kind of interesting... > > > > > > > > By the way, this site is taking 600,000 hits a day so it may take > > a few > > > > seconds to load the main graphic of the US map... > > > > > > > > > > > > www.electoral-vote.com > > > > > > Oh, you mean the site that John and I discussed last week, John > > slamming > > > it for using polls that don't have very good accuracy? :) > > > > > Unfortunately for John, this site is the most respected electoral site > > on the web, getting 6 times as many hits as its closest competitor. > > Try reading this as it is very very interesting: > > http://www.electoral-vote.com/info/votemaster-faq.html > > > > xponent > > Visits Most Electoral Site This Cycle Maru > > rob > > Yes, it's the most popular site. It's spending a lot on advertising to > achieve that status, as well, at least that's the impression I get from > the various postings. Not true, which you would have seen if you read the link actually. The guy does the site out of his own pocket and spent donations on get out the vote sites. It's the most popular site because it is the least biased. > > But John was arguing with the use of certain polls there. Yeah, he prefers a site with a built in bias. Such as : http://www.electionprojection.com/ > > Now, the raw data is there for you to pull out the more accurate polls, > if you know which ones those are, but I'd take the electoral-vote-meter > with more salt than is needed for a margarita. (Especially considering > the swing it can take from one day to the next.) You have to read the entire site to know how to read it strange as it sounds. The front page map is only a day by day map that can change several times a day. There is a final projection map that is more stables over longer periods. Push polls are outright rejected and you get warnings about polls with questionable methodology such as Gallup. > > Margarita. I could use one one of these days. It's been over a month, > and the last one was disappointing, as it was served in a glass that > didn't have a wide enough rim to hold as much salt as I find necessary > for the quantity of margarita contained within the glass. (In other > words, I should go to El Arroyo or Chuy's or Antonio's, and NOT to Baby > Acapulco if I want my margarita on the rocks with salt. Other than the > margarita issue, though, Baby Acapulco is a great place for dinner, and > it has the virtue of being closer than any of the others, except maybe > the nearest Antonio's, but that's more of a pain to get to) > Ah.my favoritist drink! xponent Read The Faq Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Predicted electoral votes listed by state....
--- Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But John was arguing with the use of certain polls there. > > Yeah, he prefers a site with a built in bias. > Such as : http://www.electionprojection.com/ Me, I'm sticking with Zogby ;) http://www.zogby.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Election Chat
There is a special election chat currently underway for anyone that wants to join in. Instructions are the same as usual: As Steve said, "If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to do is send your web browser to: http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/ ...And you can connect directly from William's new web interface! My instruction page tells you how to log on, and how to talk when you get in: http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html It also gives a list of commands to use when you're in there. In addition, it tells you how to connect through a MUD client, which is more complicated to set up initially, but easier and more reliable than the web interface once you do get it set up." -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." - Bertrand Russell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Running Election Thoughts
Two early election thoughts 1) WV called very early for Bush; VA, NC, and SC!!! not called early for Bush. I have no idea what this means. It is completely incongruous to me. 2) Exit Polls are showing "moral values" right at the top of "most important issues" for voters in OH, PA,, and WI.If this holds, this is not only a *huge* surprise based on pre-election polling, it also probably portends a short night and a Bush win. I was very surprised when I saw this mentioned. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
- Original Message - From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: Running Election Thoughts > Two early election thoughts > > 1) WV called very early for Bush; VA, NC, and SC!!! not called early for > Bush. I have no idea what this means. It is completely incongruous to > me. > > 2) Exit Polls are showing "moral values" right at the top of "most > important issues" for voters in OH, PA,, and WI.If this holds, this is > not only a *huge* surprise based on pre-election polling, it also probably > portends a short night and a Bush win. I was very surprised when I saw > this mentioned. > Robert Novak just stated that the Bush people in Ohio are quite pessimistic right now. He thinks that portends a big advantage for Kerry. The tea leaf reading continues. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
At 07:00 PM 11/2/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: >> Two early election thoughts >> >> 1) WV called very early for Bush; VA, NC, and SC!!! not called early for >> Bush. I have no idea what this means. It is completely incongruous to >> me. >> >> 2) Exit Polls are showing "moral values" right at the top of "most >> important issues" for voters in OH, PA,, and WI.If this holds, this >is >> not only a *huge* surprise based on pre-election polling, it also >probably >> portends a short night and a Bush win. I was very surprised when I saw >> this mentioned. >> >Robert Novak just stated that the Bush people in Ohio are quite pessimistic >right now. He thinks that portends a big advantage for Kerry. The tea >leaf reading continues. :-) That's amusing, because National Review's Jim Geraghty reports that the Bush people are saying that the have OH and FL in the bag... (which is tantamount to a win.) I will say that based on the delay in calling VA, NC, and SC I would be really, really, really nervous right now if it weren't for WV getting called so quickly. JDG P.S. I will also point out that my final prediction had Bush winning without OH, so so much for Novak! ;-) ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
I talked a little while ago to a friend of mine who I think is Kerry's biggest local fundraiser. He's on the DNC's legal team (he's a real estate developer, but also an attorney) to deal with election day issues, which assigned him to Tucson, NM. He told me that as of 5 p.m., they had an unheard-of 86 percent voter turnout -- and he was still looking at a long line. As I spoke to him, I was waiting well over an hour to vote here in Santa Clara, which is about 45 minutes longer than I ever have before. My lawyer friend says he's not hearing of any significant legal issues coming up yet. I hope it stays that way. And as you might guess, he thinks a huge voter turnout will be good for Kerry. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Election and Spam
How curious. I got some spam about the brazilian elections in 2004-10-03, but IIRC I got *no* spam about the USA elections. Does it mean that neither bushites nor kerrites payed spammers to do their dirty work? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Turnout... was Re: Running Election Thoughts
Nick Arnett wrote: Tucson, NM. He told me that as of 5 p.m., they had an unheard-of 86 percent voter turnout -- and he was still looking at a long line. Just looked up the numbers... NM's turnout in 2000 was 47 percent. Wow. But I think this probably is apples and oranges -- 47 percent of voting age population v. 86 percent of registered voters. Maybe not... I'm not going to bug him to find out. In any case, it's a huge number, especially at 5 p.m. OTOH, at my sister's polling place on Pittsburgh's North Side, there was virtually no line. And they can see the Heinz plant from their front windows! Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
At 05:49 PM 11/2/2004 -0800 Nick Arnett wrote: >And as you might guess, he thinks a huge voter turnout will be good for >Kerry. Based on the past here in ultra-safe Takoma Park, MD I decided to leave 45 mins to vote, since I seemed to recall that it took me about 20 mins to vote in the past. It took me nearly 2 hours to vote this morning. But, no ID check was necessary - which I find to be unbelievable. I just had to know my birthdate and my address. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
JDG wrote: > > It took me nearly 2 hours to vote this morning. > > But, no ID check was necessary - which I find to be unbelievable. I just > had to know my birthdate and my address. > So, you didn't think it was worth spending another 2 hours to vote again for Bush as one of your friends? :-)) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
In a message dated 11/2/2004 6:50:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: which assigned him to Tucson, NM. Good luck finding it in NM! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
At 02:22 AM 11/3/2004 + Alberto Monteiro wrote: >JDG wrote: >> >> It took me nearly 2 hours to vote this morning. >> >> But, no ID check was necessary - which I find to be unbelievable. I just >> had to know my birthdate and my address. >> >So, you didn't think it was worth spending another 2 hours to vote >again for Bush as one of your friends? :-)) Well, I would have need my friend's birthday and address to do so and it cost me an hour of vacation time to vote today as I was made late to work. A lot of liberal analysts I read are just about ready to give up on FL meanwhile ABC News is reporting that there are 5 hour-long lines in Cleveland and Columbus at the time of poll closing, and OH is now basically hand-to-hand combat among the lawyers there between how to handle these lines (do you really make people wait until 1am to vote?) and of course, those provisional ballots. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:10:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A lot of liberal analysts I read are just about ready to give up on FL meanwhile ABC News is reporting that there are 5 hour-long lines in Cleveland and Columbus at the time of poll closing, and OH is now basically hand-to-hand combat among the lawyers there between how to handle these lines (do you really make people wait until 1am to vote?) and of course, those provisional ballots. JDG Did Ohio open at 6am and close at 7pm like AZ. Any shorter hours and they're just fooling themselves. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:13:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Did Ohio open at 6am and close at 7pm like AZ. Any shorter hours and they're just fooling themselves PS And in Tucson, it averages one polling place per 1/2 square mile of solid residential housing. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 11/2/2004 6:50:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: which assigned him to Tucson, NM. Darn, somebody caught that before I did... Just ran back to the computer to says that I never could spell Albuquerque, so I spelled it "Tucson." He's in Albuquerque. My ears heard the word "Tucson" and my fingers typed it without any cranial intervention. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
Dan Minette wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:52 PM > Subject: Running Election Thoughts > > > Two early election thoughts > > > > 1) WV called very early for Bush; VA, NC, and SC!!! not called early for > > Bush. I have no idea what this means. It is completely incongruous to > > me. > > > > 2) Exit Polls are showing "moral values" right at the top of "most > > important issues" for voters in OH, PA,, and WI.If this holds, this > is > > not only a *huge* surprise based on pre-election polling, it also > probably > > portends a short night and a Bush win. I was very surprised when I saw > > this mentioned. > > > Robert Novak just stated that the Bush people in Ohio are quite pessimistic > right now. He thinks that portends a big advantage for Kerry. The tea > leaf reading continues. :-) M... tea... ;) Just tried Bigelow's Green Tea with Mint today. I liked it a lot. I'm going to fold laundry and consider watching a little election coverage on TV. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Election and Spam
Alberto Monteiro wrote: > > How curious. I got some spam about the brazilian elections in > 2004-10-03, but IIRC I got *no* spam about the USA elections. > > Does it mean that neither bushites nor kerrites payed spammers > to do their dirty work? I didn't get any spam claiming to be from either of those campaigns, but the Lieutenant Governor has one of my e-mail addresses and sent me stuff about once a week for a few weeks. I didn't read any of it, so I don't know what he wanted from me. :) I think that maybe both camps could have realized that spamming could backfire in a major way. I know people who'd vote for the one who *didn't* spam them, and if there are enough such people in the US, spamming would be a Bad Idea. Of course, you could spam supposedly on behalf of the one you wanted to lose Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
"John D. Giorgis" wrote: > A lot of liberal analysts I read are just about ready to give up on FL > meanwhile ABC News is reporting that there are 5 hour-long lines in > Cleveland and Columbus at the time of poll closing, and OH is now basically > hand-to-hand combat among the lawyers there between how to handle these > lines (do you really make people wait until 1am to vote?) and of course, > those provisional ballots. Funny, I didn't have any sort of a wait at all last Monday when I did early voting ;) There were lines for early voting later in the week, at least in the next county. I did my early voting around 10AM. It worked out fairly well for me. (Voting today would have been a real pain, and if there had been much of a line to speak of, I would have ended up having to leave and go back later, dragging 3 children along, probably all cranky to boot.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:27:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm going to fold laundry and consider watching a little election coverage on TV. Julia If only you could fold the election coverage and laundry a few politicians. >sigh< Vilyehm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Electoral College (Was: Re: 2004 Presidential Race Analysis)
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:53:23 -0800 (PST), Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: : > who apologizes if somebody already said this, and felt > a teeny bit smug about avoiding the long lines to vote > today (although a wait of 1.25 hours last Fri, in > Early Voting, was hardly better!) :) Holy cow - 75 mins? I walked in, waited for the lady in front of me to get her ballot from the people checking addresses, got my ballot, voted, turned it in and left. Total time: ~7 mins including reading the short ballot questions and marking the ballot. Dinnertime is the right time to go vote, apparently. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Electoral College (Was: Re: 2004 Presidential Race Analysis)
In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:50:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Holy cow - 75 mins? I walked in, waited for the lady in front of me to get her ballot from the people checking addresses, got my ballot, voted, turned it in and left. Total time: ~7 mins including reading the short ballot questions and marking the ballot. Dinnertime is the right time to go vote, apparently. 4 minutes for me, I think. 6:45am. I did not vote for judges or school boards. Black marker in the ovals, then feed it to the hungry gulper. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The real translation of Osama's rant
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:36:51 -0800, d.brin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > This from Stefan Jones. It's circulating on Slashdot: > > --- > > ((Translation may be suspect.)) Anyone catch the Osama translation sketch on SNL this weekend? Some pretty funny bits. I tried to find it (or a transcript) online, but no luck. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Electoral College (Was: Re: 2004 Presidential Race Analysis)
I went to vote at around 5:15pm and was home by 5:45. Most of that time was taken up by driving to, from, and around the voting site (@20min) and the store to pick up dinners (gnoccis...). Here in my county we still use voting machines. They're avocado green (or alternatively, they resemble that strange lime green found inside US armored vehicles...) and look about as old. Well maintained, but they hearken from a more analog age. I personally felt reassured. Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Legends Aussie Centurion Mk.5/1 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Electoral College (Was: Re: 2004 Presidential Race Analysis)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:50:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Holy cow - 75 mins? I walked in, waited for the lady in > front of me to get her ballot from the people checking > addresses, got my ballot, voted, turned it in and left. Total > time: ~7 mins including reading the short ballot questions > and marking the ballot. Dinnertime is the right time to go > vote, apparently. > > 4 minutes for me, I think. 6:45am. I did not vote for judges or school > boards. Closer to 7 for me at early voting, but I had an upset 3-year-old on my lap as I was trying to mark the ovals. I voted for judges, but school board wasn't included on this ballot. It might have taken longer had I not perused a scan of my ballot on-line beforehand to figure out just which ovals I was going to blacken. Memorized it and was able to fill in ovals without thinking. > Black marker in the ovals, then feed it to the hungry gulper. Yum! Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
At this point, it is hard to see how Kerry wins FL. Overall, Bush is up 300,000 votes. Based on assuming that the remaining precincts in Broward, West Palm Beach, and Miami-Dade report for Kerry at the same rate as the currently reported precincts (97%, 84%, and 94%, respectfully), Kerry only picks up only 83,000 votes.I should clarify that this projection is based on two questionable assumptions - namely that the remaining precincts will vote in the same propotion for Kerry as the previous precincts - not necessarily true, and that the remaining precincts will have approximately the same number of votes per precinct as the previously reported precincts - also *very* not necessarily true.Nevertheless, the fact that this projection produces such a stark gap for Kerry has to be very troubling, as that is a long shot that those missing precincts will be *that* large. Additionally, no other county that Kerry is currently winning has *any* remaining precincts. Moreover, this doesn't account for Bush's general advantage among absentee voters (guesstimates are that Bush will pick up a minimum of 100,000 votes in this group) and those remaining precincts in rural counties. Look for Florida to be called by 1am. and as I have posted earlier, if Bush gets FL, Kerry has to either pull a mild upset in NM or IA, or else run the table Bush meanwhile would be 20 EV's away with OH, MI, WI, MN, IA, OR, NM, NH, and HI left to call. OH, of course is 20 EV's. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
At 11:39 PM 11/2/2004 -0500 John D. Giorgis wrote: >Look for Florida to be called by 1am. Of course, ABC would call FL just seconds after I write this ;-) and here I was worried about saying look for the FL call by 12am. I have just run a similar calculation on OH. There are many more precincts still left in OH than when I ran this on FL, but I have Kerry coming up roughly 20-40,000 votes short in OH. We'll see how this develops, with the big quesiton being Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) with only 67% of precincts in. It looks like we just might have a final result by my 2am over-under prediction. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Electoral College (Was: Re: 2004 Presidential Race Analysis)
On Nov 2, 2004, at 8:14 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:50:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Holy cow - 75 mins? I walked in, waited for the lady in front of me to get her ballot from the people checking addresses, got my ballot, voted, turned it in and left. Total time: ~7 mins including reading the short ballot questions and marking the ballot. Dinnertime is the right time to go vote, apparently. 4 minutes for me, I think. 6:45am. I did not vote for judges or school boards. Closer to 7 for me at early voting, but I had an upset 3-year-old on my lap as I was trying to mark the ovals. I voted for judges, but school board wasn't included on this ballot. It might have taken longer had I not perused a scan of my ballot on-line beforehand to figure out just which ovals I was going to blacken. Memorized it and was able to fill in ovals without thinking. Black marker in the ovals, then feed it to the hungry gulper. Yum! In Northern California at 11:30 AM, we waited in line about :30. Voting via Sequoia "AVC Edge" touch-screen voting machines was very easy: my wife Peggy and I finished the entire voting process (from inserting the smart-card through voting to handing the card to the poll worker to record them and reset the card for the next voter) in about 2-3 minutes, after standing around for 5-10 minutes waiting for machines to become available after signing in. Add a minute or two for the doddering poll worker to figure out that two voters had finished and had turned in their cards... Spent most of the time after signing in trying to figure out how the heck it could take anybody to take more than 5 minutes to vote. Dave Then again, We're Geeks Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Electoral College (Was: Re: 2004 Presidential Race Analysis)
Oh, and Nick's wife was still standing in line at close to 9:00. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
On Nov 2, 2004, at 9:24 PM, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 11:39 PM 11/2/2004 -0500 John D. Giorgis wrote: Look for Florida to be called by 1am. Of course, ABC would call FL just seconds after I write this ;-) and here I was worried about saying look for the FL call by 12am. I have just run a similar calculation on OH. There are many more precincts still left in OH than when I ran this on FL, but I have Kerry coming up roughly 20-40,000 votes short in OH. We'll see how this develops, with the big quesiton being Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) with only 67% of precincts in. It looks like we just might have a final result by my 2am over-under prediction. NBC called FL for Bush a little bit ago, and Tim Russert's tablet computer calculations make it very clear that unless Sen. Kerry wins OH, it's all but over. Of course, as I type that, NBC calls OH for Bush. How's that New Zealand real estate coming along? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Running Election Thoughts
At 10:00 PM 11/2/2004 -0800 Dave Land wrote: >Of course, as I type that, NBC calls OH for Bush. > >How's that New Zealand real estate coming along? My county-precinct analysis also has Kerry's best-case scenario falling 18,000 votes short in New Mexico.That should break the 269-269 tie. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
It seems over...
It seems basically over at this point - but apparently the Kerry campaign is going to hang on. Of all the possible outcomes, this was not one that crossed my mind. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brin: Iowa is the New Florida
If you think Iowa was won by bush think again. A few days ago the rethuglicans sent a dozen lawyers to the Johnson county auditors office and challenged every single absentee ballot they could. (Johnson county is one of the most democratic counties in the U.S., where shrub lost at the polls today by 65 to 35). There are literally thousands of 'provisional' ballots that are being challenged, more than the margin shrub is supposedly winning by at this point. Expect two flocks of lawyers to descend on Iowa and Ohio tomorrow. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
