Re: Religion kills
On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:55 PM, William T Goodall wrote: On 4 Aug 2008, at 22:42, Jon Louis Mann wrote: i actually agree with william about religion, except i try to be less intolerant and antagonistic. And where does that get you? Well, for one thing, many people on this list find Jon's posts pleasant and courteous, even when they are challenging. Jon, like many others here, consider IAAMOAC when they post. It's why personal attacks are to be avoided: they divide the community, rather than build it. Abrasive and monomaniacal posts are not pleasant and courteous, whether they come from someone defending or attacking religion. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Religion kills
On 5 Aug 2008, at 07:36, Dave Land wrote: On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:55 PM, William T Goodall wrote: On 4 Aug 2008, at 22:42, Jon Louis Mann wrote: i actually agree with william about religion, except i try to be less intolerant and antagonistic. And where does that get you? Well, for one thing, many people on this list find Jon's posts pleasant and courteous, even when they are challenging. Jon, like many others here, consider IAAMOAC when they post. It's why personal attacks are to be avoided: they divide the community, rather than build it. Abrasive and monomaniacal posts are not pleasant and courteous, whether they come from someone defending or attacking religion. It's true that some of the religionists on this list can be very tiresome but I just cheerfully carry on countering their nonsense. Burdens Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
On 05/08/2008, at 9:35 AM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: sounds like peter hamilton's new trilogy http://www.peterfhamilton.co.uk/index.php?page=Void_Trilogy what is de Sitter vs. anti-de Sitter universe? Which I've not yet read, even though I quite like Hamilton. I own a copy of Dreaming Void, but it's on a ship somewhere between the UK and Oz right now. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Alastair Reynolds
On 05/08/2008, at 9:45 AM, Olin Elliott wrote: Has anyone here read Alastair Reynolds -- Revelation Space, Chasm City, Redemption Ark. Revelation Space - so so. CC - v. good. RA - alright. I like Reynolds, but he's merely good not utterly brilliant. I've been reading his books for the past few months and really loving them, but he doesn't seem to be that well known among science fiction readers I've chatted with since I started. Yeah. Most people I know who've read him like him but wonder where his books are actually going. I've enjoyed all that I've read, but not so much that I'm desperate for more, or to re-read them. I'm also reading A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge. However, AFUTD (and A Deepness In The Sky as well) is awesome. Completely awesome. Just thought I'd bring up some books, since that is sort of what drew me here in the first place. Good good. All is Brin. :) Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
Jon Louis Mann wrote: who was it that postulated that reality is an illusion? Someone before Descartes. someone else suggested that we all exist in cyberspace? jon In that time, it was not cyberspace but demonspace. Just a matter of names. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Religion kills
On 05/08/2008, at 9:57 AM, Olin Elliott wrote: Betrand Russell (I'm fairly sure it was him) used to call himself A Teacup Athiest. He said he couldn't prove, beyond any doubt, that there wasn't a pink teacup orbiting the sun, but he didn't think that meant that the likelihood of it existing was on equal footing with its not existing. Twas a teapot. I had an amusing discussion the other night where I was talking about Teapotists, and as our knowledge of the solar system improves, the teapot orbits further and further out. Eventually, the teapot orbits a different star entirely... Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Compassion (was Re: Religion kills)
On 5 Aug 2008, at 05:07, Nick Arnett wrote: On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:01 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sanctimonious like some people And just how does that manage also to leave able to freely, so freely and urgently, share your views on religion. Sanctimonious: Making a show of being morally better than others. I'm not making a show of anything. Explanation Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Religion kills
On 05/08/2008, at 9:50 AM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: i sit corrected, in the name of atheism. as a devout atheist i believe there ain't no gawd, but i can't prove it, so i take it on faith. i believe the universe is cyclical and the big bang occurs when all the galaxies in the universe are sucked into super black holes which are then sucked into a super duper black hole at the center of this universe, which then explodes it reaches critical mass, so that the process of expansion, contraction and the heat death of the universe starts all over, again. jon Difference between belief and conviction. I don't believe there's no god. I think on balance there probably isn't. God is in the same class as fairies, Santa, goblins, bigfoot, nessie, chi and reflexology. No faith required to not believe in them, as I don't really believe (even in Not God). Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Alastair Reynolds
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Olin Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone here read Alastair Reynolds -- Revelation Space, Chasm City, Redemption Ark. I've been reading his books for the past few months and really loving them, but he doesn't seem to be that well known among science fiction readers I've chatted with since I started. I enjoyed the first couple, particulary CC, but he isn't a writer who has ever evolved. Here are a couple of reviews of some of his more recent ones: http://www.sfsite.com/02b/cr194.htm http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2007/06/the_prefect_by_.shtml Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Jon Louis Mann wrote: who was it that postulated that reality is an illusion? Someone before Descartes. Are we talking Plato's cave here, or something later? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The First Event
Reality is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. -- Douglas Adams -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julia Thompson Sent: 05 August 2008 14:43 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: The First Event On Tue, 5 Aug 2008, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Jon Louis Mann wrote: who was it that postulated that reality is an illusion? Someone before Descartes. Are we talking Plato's cave here, or something later? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
On 05/08/2008, at 11:14 PM, Curtis Burisch wrote: Reality is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. Sorry: Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. If you want to be precise. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The First Event
My apologies -- an imperfect memory serves me imperfectly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charlie Bell Sent: 05 August 2008 16:25 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: The First Event On 05/08/2008, at 11:14 PM, Curtis Burisch wrote: Reality is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. Sorry: Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. If you want to be precise. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The First Event
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008, Curtis Burisch wrote: My apologies -- an imperfect memory serves me imperfectly. It gives creativity more wiggle room, though. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Alastair Reynolds
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Olin Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone here read Alastair Reynolds -- Revelation Space, Chasm City, Redemption Ark. I've been reading his books for the past few months and really loving them, but he doesn't seem to be that well known among science fiction readers I've chatted with since I started. I'm also reading A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge. Just thought I'd bring up some books, since that is sort of what drew me here in the first place. Olin Since the conversation has drifted to books, this is good cause for me to de-lurk I just recently read Revelation Space, Chasm City, and Redemption Ark (Absolution Gap is on the shelf waiting), and I thoroughly enjoyed them. The universe presented in the books is pretty interesting to me, and it has a certain sense of wonder about it, that there's stuff out there that the characters barely comprehend. I also like the grittiness of the society that has fallen from it's high after the melding plague took out the most advanced technology. Regarding Vinge, I wish he would write some more. A Fire Upon the Deep, and A Deepness in the Sky were amazing, and Rainbows End presents a really interesting near future speculative setting (given the increasing popularity of virtual worlds like Second Life, etc. Rainbows End becomes even more interesting). --mike ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The First Event
From: Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reality is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. -- Douglas Adams Jon Louis Mann wrote: who was it that postulated that reality is an illusion? Alberto Monteiro wrote: Someone before Descartes. Are we talking Plato's cave here, or something later? Julia i don't recall the original reference, but there are many. one that stands out is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(Hinduism) hermann hesse wrote a great short story, maya... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Religion kills
Of course you may know that a cyclical universe seems to be out of favor with cosmologists now because the latest evidence points to the density of stuff in the universe (matter + energy + dark matter + dark energy) being less than the critical density necessary to halt the expansion, much less make everything fall back into a big crunch. And while some Biblical literalists and others may claim otherwise, there are many scientists who do not believe that there is necessarily an essential conflict between the findings of science and belief in God in general or Christian belief in particular. . . . ronn! :) if you're talking about those bloody creationist revisionist apologists, all i can say is no way!~) if you are talking about tomes like the tao of physics, then maybe... as for : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death i can only hope some future quantum physicist will yet save the universe from the scourge of entropy!~) jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The First Event
Jon Louis Mann wrote: sounds like peter hamilton's new trilogy http://www.peterfhamilton.co.uk/index.php?page=Void_Trilogy Which I've not yet read, even though I quite like Hamilton. I own a copy of Dreaming Void, but it's on a ship somewhere between the UK and Oz right now. Charlie. you might want to wait for the next volume which is coming out soon (i hope). that way you won't be left hanging, or forget what happened in DV. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: From: Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reality is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. -- Douglas Adams Jon Louis Mann wrote: who was it that postulated that reality is an illusion? Alberto Monteiro wrote: Someone before Descartes. Are we talking Plato's cave here, or something later? Julia In the context of science fiction, I believe the correct answer is Philip K. Dick. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Compassion (was Re: Religion kills)
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 3:19 AM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Sanctimonious: Making a show of being morally better than others. I'm not making a show of anything. Of course. Silly me. I should have recognized that you are doing nothing more than faithfully, er, reliably carrying the banner of Truth. With the pink unicorn logo in the corners. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Alastair Reynolds
On 5 Aug 2008, at 12:55, Martin Lewis wrote: On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Olin Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone here read Alastair Reynolds -- Revelation Space, Chasm City, Redemption Ark. I've been reading his books for the past few months and really loving them, but he doesn't seem to be that well known among science fiction readers I've chatted with since I started. I enjoyed the first couple, particulary CC, but he isn't a writer who has ever evolved. Here are a couple of reviews of some of his more recent ones: http://www.sfsite.com/02b/cr194.htm http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2007/06/the_prefect_by_.shtml Many of the reviews of his latest novel indicate a new direction. http://www.amazon.co.uk/House-Suns-Gollancz-Alastair-Reynolds/dp/0575077174/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1217954811sr=8-1 Opinions Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Theists cannot be trusted as they believe that right and wrong are the arbitrary proclamations of invisible demons. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Alastair Reynolds
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:49 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I enjoyed the first couple, particulary CC, but he isn't a writer who has ever evolved. Here are a couple of reviews of some of his more recent ones: http://www.sfsite.com/02b/cr194.htm http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2007/06/the_prefect_by_.shtml Many of the reviews of his latest novel indicate a new direction. I'm not sure what that change of direction is, House Of Suns reads just like all his others. Is the idea that it is more character focussed? I didn't see any evidence of this. Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
Julia Thompson wrote: who was it that postulated that reality is an illusion? Someone before Descartes. Are we talking Plato's cave here, or something later? Plato's cave was one, but probably the idea had come to someone before Plato. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
Jon Louis Mann wrote: Jon Louis Mann wrote: sounds like peter hamilton's new trilogy http://www.peterfhamilton.co.uk/index.php?page=Void_Trilogy Which I've not yet read, even though I quite like Hamilton. I own a copy of Dreaming Void, but it's on a ship somewhere between the UK and Oz right now. Charlie. you might want to wait for the next volume which is coming out soon (i hope). that way you won't be left hanging, or forget what happened in DV. jon Jon-- Hi. My name is David, and I read Peter F. Hamilton... I'm not sure why, but I read all of the last series, as well as Dreaming Void. I somehow remember that DV was the start of a trilogy, in which case it's a long wait. (On the plus side, it seems to have kept a lot of characters from the previous series.) ---David Halfway through Saturn's Children, and wondering why robots don't cover their soul chip slots better... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Wait how long for the file to download?
I have to use MS Excel in my work. Actually, it has always been an application that I thought does a lot of cool things... but boy, it crashes a lot on my desktop machine. I upgraded to the latest version, finally got used to the weird ribbon menus (still can't find things sometimes)... but it still crashes often. The latest version comes with some sort of diagnostic tool that checks all sorts of things. It didn't find anything wrong with my system, then prompted me to get the latest suggestions online. From a web page at MS, I received the following instructions. Update Diagnostic — Unable to access a required file The Update Diagnostic was unable to run because it requires a file that you have chosen not to download. To give Microsoft Office permission to download this file, do one of the following in one of these 2007 Office release programs: Access, Excel, PowerPoint, or Word 1. Click the *Microsoft Office Button*[image: Button image], and then click *Access Options*, *Excel Options*, *PowerPoint Options*, or *Word Options*. 2. Click *Trust Center*, click *Advanced Trust Center Settings*, and then click *Privacy Options*. 3. Select the *Download a file periodically that helps determine system problems* check box. 4. Wait about a week to allow the file to be downloaded, and then run Microsoft Office Diagnostics again. Uh, that's one big honkin' download, apparently. I knew those service packs were getting big... but a week! Okay, I understand what's really going on here... but couldn't they have said it a bit more clearly?! Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The First Event
At 04:57 PM Tuesday 8/5/2008, David Hobby wrote: Jon Louis Mann wrote: Jon Louis Mann wrote: sounds like peter hamilton's new trilogy http://www.peterfhamilton.co.uk/index.php?page=Void_Trilogy Which I've not yet read, even though I quite like Hamilton. I own a copy of Dreaming Void, but it's on a ship somewhere between the UK and Oz right now. Charlie. you might want to wait for the next volume which is coming out soon (i hope). that way you won't be left hanging, or forget what happened in DV. jon Jon-- Hi. My name is David, and I read Peter F. Hamilton... I'm not sure why, but I read all of the last series, as well as Dreaming Void. I somehow remember that DV was the start of a trilogy, in which case it's a long wait. (On the plus side, it seems to have kept a lot of characters from the previous series.) ---David Halfway through Saturn's Children, and wondering why robots don't cover their soul chip slots better... I was about halfway through DV when it had to go back to the library*, but if it's going to be a trilogy, I may just wait until the rest of it is out to get it again and finish it . . . _ *Yes, it's thick, but I also had other things to do during the time. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Alastair Reynolds
At 07:04 PM Monday 8/4/2008, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 4 Aug 2008 at 16:45, Olin Elliott wrote: Has anyone here read Alastair Reynolds -- Revelation Space, Chasm City, Redemption Ark. I've been reading his books for the past few months and really loving them, but he doesn't seem to be that well known among science fiction readers I've chatted with since I started. I'm also reading A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge. Just thought I'd bring up some books, since that is sort of what drew me here in the first place. I picked them up cheap recently second hand. FWIW, I saw a copy of _Redemption Ark_ for sale today at Dollar Tree. . . . . . . (wait for it) . . . . . . How much was it? I Bought A Copy Of _Kiln People_ At Another Store Of The Chain Sometime Back Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wait how long for the file to download?
At 10:18 PM Tuesday 8/5/2008, Nick Arnett wrote: I have to use MS Excel in my work. Actually, it has always been an application that I thought does a lot of cool things... but boy, it crashes a lot on my desktop machine. I upgraded to the latest version, finally got used to the weird ribbon menus (still can't find things sometimes)... but it still crashes often. The latest version comes with some sort of diagnostic tool that checks all sorts of things. It didn't find anything wrong with my system, then prompted me to get the latest suggestions online. From a web page at MS, I received the following instructions. Update Diagnostic Unable to access a required file The Update Diagnostic was unable to run because it requires a file that you have chosen not to download. To give Microsoft Office permission to download this file, do one of the following in one of these 2007 Office release programs: Access, Excel, PowerPoint, or Word 1. Click the *Microsoft Office Button*[image: Button image], and then click *Access Options*, *Excel Options*, *PowerPoint Options*, or *Word Options*. 2. Click *Trust Center*, click *Advanced Trust Center Settings*, and then click *Privacy Options*. 3. Select the *Download a file periodically that helps determine system problems* check box. 4. Wait about a week to allow the file to be downloaded, and then run Microsoft Office Diagnostics again. Uh, that's one big honkin' download, apparently. I knew those service packs were getting big... but a week! Okay, I understand what's really going on here... but couldn't they have said it a bit more clearly?! Nick How long would it take if you had dial-up? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wait how long for the file to download?
On Aug 5, 2008, at 8:18 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: 4. Wait about a week to allow the file to be downloaded, and then run Microsoft Office Diagnostics again. Uh, that's one big honkin' download, apparently. I knew those service packs were getting big... but a week! Okay, I understand what's really going on here... but couldn't they have said it a bit more clearly?! In case anyone thinks Nick's pulling our collective leg, the instructions are here: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/diagnostichelp.aspx?ShowHelp=30,15,23,25,11,2 or http://url.ie/l37 Nick: You understand what's really going on here? What -- A Microsoft employee was frustrated at how long it took to download the file, wrote a snarky message, and it ended up in the final product? Dave Lorem Ipsum Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
