Re: An armed society
On Oct 27, 2008, at 3:30 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: Then again, an armed society is a polite society .. Bruce, We have found that in general Americans are the politest people we have met. They are also incredibly welcoming and friendly. We have certainly speculated if this was in part due to the variety of arms we have seen. I still shudder when a truck pulled up next to us in a supermarket car park with a shot gun on prominent display in the back window. When the driver opened the door of the truck it was surprising that there was room for him to sit with all the weapons visible in the car. That is more weapons than I had seen in my lifetime. The local Sheriff pulled in beside him and they had a conversation. I think from the body language that the Sheriff was admiring the guns, but I can't be sure and I did not want to hang around to find out. Regards, Maree someone with that many weapons on display must be doing it for show, or to compensate for some other kind of inadequacy. one gun should be sufficient for self protection. if gun toting red necks are polite to you it is likely because of your accent, plus you can't vote for obama!~) jon If you're trying to put food on the table, you may want more than one rifle for doing so. (Plus, if you're in rattlesnake country, you want a sidearm in case you find yourself too close to a rattler. Just remember to take the damn thing out of your bag before you go to the airport with that bag, m'kay?) And, geez, I *know* gun-toting rednecks who are voting for Obama, and I'm somewhat irked that someone can't look past a stereotype and instead makes jabs. If you don't live in gun country, don't be throwing around stereotypes about people who do. Julia who may have the only gun-free house in the neighborhood, but it's certainly not *weapon*-free In my defense, as much as I may resemble one some days, I am not really a redneck. :) (And I don't own *that* many guns, and at least two partially qualify for curio and relic status and are more technical curiosities than anything else.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: An armed society, ( was distribute the wealth)
On Mon 10/27/2008 6:39 AM Bruce Bostwick wrote Then again, an armed society is a polite society .. Bruce, We have found that in general Americans are the politest people we have met. They are also incredibly welcoming and friendly. We have certainly speculated if this was in part due to the variety of arms we have seen. I still shudder when a truck pulled up next to us in a supermarket car park with a shot gun on prominent display in the back window. When the driver opened the door of the truck it was surprising that there was room for him to sit with all the weapons visible in the car. That is more weapons than I had seen in my lifetime. The local Sherriff pulled in beside him and they had a conversation. I think from the body language that the Sherriff was admiring the guns, but I can't be sure and I did not want to hang around to find out. Regards, Maree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society
Lt Saavik wrote: We have found that in general Americans are the politest people we have met. They are also incredibly welcoming and friendly. We have certainly speculated if this was in part due to the variety of arms we have seen. I still shudder when a truck pulled up next to us in a supermarket car park with a shot gun on prominent display in the back window. When the driver opened the door of the truck it was surprising that there was room for him to sit with all the weapons visible in the car. That is more weapons than I had seen in my lifetime. The local Sheriff pulled in beside him and they had a conversation. I think from the body language that the Sheriff was admiring the guns, but I can't be sure and I did not want to hang around to find out. Regards, Maree someone with that many weapons on display must be doing it for show, or to compensate for some other kind of inadequacy. one gun should be sufficient for self protection. if gun toting red necks are polite to you it is likely because of your accent, plus you can't vote for obama!~) jon (no comments... except the misnomer and the canonical Star Trek quote...) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: Then again, an armed society is a polite society .. Bruce, We have found that in general Americans are the politest people we have met. They are also incredibly welcoming and friendly. We have certainly speculated if this was in part due to the variety of arms we have seen. I still shudder when a truck pulled up next to us in a supermarket car park with a shot gun on prominent display in the back window. When the driver opened the door of the truck it was surprising that there was room for him to sit with all the weapons visible in the car. That is more weapons than I had seen in my lifetime. The local Sheriff pulled in beside him and they had a conversation. I think from the body language that the Sheriff was admiring the guns, but I can't be sure and I did not want to hang around to find out. Regards, Maree someone with that many weapons on display must be doing it for show, or to compensate for some other kind of inadequacy. one gun should be sufficient for self protection. if gun toting red necks are polite to you it is likely because of your accent, plus you can't vote for obama!~) jon If you're trying to put food on the table, you may want more than one rifle for doing so. (Plus, if you're in rattlesnake country, you want a sidearm in case you find yourself too close to a rattler. Just remember to take the damn thing out of your bag before you go to the airport with that bag, m'kay?) And, geez, I *know* gun-toting rednecks who are voting for Obama, and I'm somewhat irked that someone can't look past a stereotype and instead makes jabs. If you don't live in gun country, don't be throwing around stereotypes about people who do. Julia who may have the only gun-free house in the neighborhood, but it's certainly not *weapon*-free ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society
If you're trying to put food on the table, you may want more than one rifle for doing so. (Plus, if you're in rattlesnake country, you want a sidearm in case you find yourself too close to a rattler. Just remember to take the damn thing out of your bag before you go to the airport with that bag, m'kay?) And, geez, I *know* gun-toting rednecks who are voting for Obama, and I'm somewhat irked that someone can't look past a stereotype and instead makes jabs. If you don't live in gun country, don't be throwing around stereotypes about people who do. Julia sorry, julia, i don't like rednecks (or religious zealots) and they don't like me. i wouldn't have it any other way!~) i lived in texas in the 50s and even back then i didn't know any gun toting cowboy types, or people who relied on hunting to put food on the table; maybe in the 1850's... however, i am sure there are exceptions to the rule and some rednecks may even vote for obama, especially after seeing what bush did to texas and then to the u.s. (and the world)... jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society
At 03:30 PM Monday 10/27/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: Then again, an armed society is a polite society .. An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. Robert A. Heinlein, _Beyond the Horizon_, 1942 Bruce, We have found that in general Americans are the politest people we have met. They are also incredibly welcoming and friendly. We have certainly speculated if this was in part due to the variety of arms we have seen. Another possible hypothesis is that people who are familiar with firearms and their use and handling tend to be independent and self-sufficient in other ways, and so may have fewer worries about things being out of their control and so have less reason to be fearful or suspicious of strangers and their intentions. (And not just because they can pull out a .45 and blow the stranger away if he threatens them . . . :P) I still shudder when a truck pulled up next to us in a supermarket car park with a shot gun on prominent display in the back window. When the driver opened the door of the truck it was surprising that there was room for him to sit with all the weapons visible in the car. That is more weapons than I had seen in my lifetime. The local Sheriff pulled in beside him and they had a conversation. I think from the body language that the Sheriff was admiring the guns, but I can't be sure Obviously I was not there to observe, but based on my experience I expect you are correct. When they get together socially LEOs discuss the tools of their trade and their relative positive and negative points in the same way geeks discuss the relative merits of different operating systems. and I did not want to hang around to find out. Regards, Maree someone with that many weapons on display must be doing it for show, or to compensate for some other kind of inadequacy. one gun should be sufficient for self protection. if gun toting red necks are polite to you it is likely because of your accent, plus you can't vote for obama!~) jon If you're trying to put food on the table, you may want more than one rifle for doing so. (Plus, if you're in rattlesnake country, you want a sidearm in case you find yourself too close to a rattler. A gun is a tool for a particular job. A toolbox that contained only a single #3 Phillips screwdriver would not be very useful for many jobs a technician or a DIYer will encounter. Similarly, the right gun (and ammo) for one purpose may be too much or too little for another purpose. And FWIW in many cases the best load for a sidearm in case you find yourself too close to a rattler is a shot shell rather than a regular bullet. OTOH, depending on what you're hunting, you may want a large-bore sidearm with a heavy round in case when you approach something you have shot with a rifle from a distance it is not yet entirely dead. Especially if it's something that might be able to get up and hurt you before it expires . . . (And FWIW IANAH . . . ) Just remember to take the damn thing out of your bag before you go to the airport with that bag, m'kay?) I hope you are not talking from personal experience. And, geez, I *know* gun-toting rednecks who are voting for Obama, and I'm somewhat irked that someone can't look past a stereotype and instead makes jabs. If you don't live in gun country, don't be throwing around stereotypes about people who do. Julia who may have the only gun-free house in the neighborhood, but it's certainly not *weapon*-free And I doubt you or anyone else familiar with them would claim that a single type of sharp object would be adequate or even usable in all situations. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 03:30 PM Monday 10/27/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: If you're trying to put food on the table, you may want more than one rifle for doing so. (Plus, if you're in rattlesnake country, you want a sidearm in case you find yourself too close to a rattler. Just remember to take the damn thing out of your bag before you go to the airport with that bag, m'kay?) I hope you are not talking from personal experience. No, just 2 incidents I heard about, the second involving the owner of the Dallas Cowboys. And, geez, I *know* gun-toting rednecks who are voting for Obama, and I'm somewhat irked that someone can't look past a stereotype and instead makes jabs. If you don't live in gun country, don't be throwing around stereotypes about people who do. Julia who may have the only gun-free house in the neighborhood, but it's certainly not *weapon*-free And I doubt you or anyone else familiar with them would claim that a single type of sharp object would be adequate or even usable in all situations. No. The katana isn't going to work all that well if you've got limited space, and the Klingon knife isn't going to work at arm's length all that well. Just to name 2. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 22 Dec 2005, at 3:07 am, Russell Chapman wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. Microsoft may yet have another life if it manages to dominate the living room in the way it has done the office. Sales between Thanksgiving and Christmas of Media Centre edition PCs in the US have been staggering. They may have shown a staggering increase, but since the sales of Media Centre have been negligible for the last few years that doesn't amount to much. Perhaps this is the year it finally takes off. It's not that MS get that much more for the Media Centre version of Windows (they do, of course) but the stake being claimed in the living room. Once Xbox360 takes that next step into people's home lives, it may be that they have got far enough. Sony's devices are better, Apple's 10foot interface is better, but it's the Microsoft stuff people will have, so it is Microsoft that the content providers will have to deal with. The content providers are clearly signalling that they don't want to be locked into one DRM environment. And especially not Microsoft's. Rather than breaking the law, they will just ensure that DRM laws etc benefit them in the first place... The most widely used DRM system on Windows PCs now is Apple's Fairplay. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping looks so silly. - Randy Cohen. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not the other has spent time in court over business practices would be edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect at first glance. What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? What percentage of the retail business does Wal-Mart have? Less than 9% according to Wilkipedia...which can stand correction if you have a better source. Still, I know it's not near 50%. Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). I cannot think of a comparable action by Wal-Mart. If I own a PC computer (not including Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If I want to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. Were you thinking of another comparison? Oh certainly! You correctly point at the obvious differences, but I was thinking more along the lines of the strongarm tactics that come with having a dominant market position, dictating pricing to vendors and customers etc xponent Legends Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
I play Microsoft's advocate from time to time, because as evil as people think they are they are more often just misunderstood, IMNSHO. People seem to anthropomorphized Microsoft into the demi-God of computer problems. Dan Minette wrote: What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Quick question: how many OSes would you like to know how to use every day? Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). This is much more of a Vertical Monopoly problem than a Monopoly problem. Our Anti-Trust Laws do not affect Vertical Monopolies, otherwise Sony, Viacom, Times Warner and others should be facing court battles. Every feature that Microsoft has given away for free has been things that should be included in an Operating System. Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to listen to music? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the network experience as a web browser? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the health of your PC as an anti-virus program? Microsoft does it and over-rich third parties whine about Monopolistic tendencies. Apple does it (iTunes, iPhoto, i*, Final Cut *, ...) and people hail it as the second coming! Linux does it every day, and has done it since the beginning... Why is Microsoft the exception to the rule? I cannot think of a comparable action by Wal-Mart. Price Gouging; Unfair Trade Agreements; Service Bundling; All-In-One-Stop-Shopping. There's an entire documentary on some of this if you care, but again, these are all Vertical Monopoly problems coming from the fact that Wal-Mart sells everything and owns quite a bit of the production systems as well. If I own a PC computer (not including Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If I want to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. Depends on your definition of hard. You can install Linux on your PC pretty easily nowadays, and you can try before you buy (spend the time installing) with very easy Live CDs (ask your neighborhood geek for a good Live CD, or order the Ubuntu CDs, which has an included Live CD to help you decide to install Ubuntu). Sure, there's a learning curve, but have you ever had two VCRs that used the exact same menu system? An Operating System is like a Gaggle of VCRs, in that respect. That's a tough cookie to crack and one of the reasons business and individuals have standardized on one (Windows); whether they like it or not they can use it where ever they come to it.Imagine the mess we'd have if there weren't a standard OS on most PCs. How many OSes do you think you can learn and keep fresh on day to day? In this case, the fact that there is a Monopoly is not from evilness on Microsoft's part, but from request/need of the market itself. Before Computers that was unprecedented in Capitalist markets (which goes to show how Computer software may in fact be a Socialist organism). People need to start realizing that the blame for Microsoft's profluence is partly their own. (The only real solution to the Microsoft Problem would be to institutionalize/nationalize the Operating System. Some States and Countries are already working on this, in fact, at least for government work.) -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ All progress is based upon a universal innate desire on the part of every organism to live beyond its income. --Samuel Butler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 21 Dec 2005, at 8:28 am, Max Battcher wrote: I play Microsoft's advocate from time to time, because as evil as people think they are they are more often just misunderstood, IMNSHO. However evil people think Microsoft is it is actually more evil than that :) People seem to anthropomorphized Microsoft into the demi-God of computer problems. Dan Minette wrote: What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Quick question: how many OSes would you like to know how to use every day? Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). This is much more of a Vertical Monopoly problem than a Monopoly problem. Our Anti-Trust Laws do not affect Vertical Monopolies, otherwise Sony, Viacom, Times Warner and others should be facing court battles. Every feature that Microsoft has given away for free has been things that should be included in an Operating System. Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to listen to music? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the network experience as a web browser? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the health of your PC as an anti-virus program? Microsoft does it and over-rich third parties whine about Monopolistic tendencies. Apple does it (iTunes, iPhoto, i*, Final Cut *, ...) and people hail it as the second coming! Linux does it every day, and has done it since the beginning... Why is Microsoft the exception to the rule? Because Microsoft was found guilty in a court of law of abusing its monopoly and is therefore subject to different rules (as a convicted monopoly abuser) than Apple or Linux (which are not convicted monopoly abusers) as part of the mandated remedy for that abuse. That's why. Just like someone on probation isn't allowed to do all the same things as their neighbour who isn't on probation. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without bricks tied to its head. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Sound familiar? History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Actually, they didn't live rich, compared to a US millionaire at the time. The GDP of the Soviet Union went backwards during it's last 10 years or so.. Interviews after the war indicated that many in the upper echelons of the Communist party still believed in their ideals. Or, take East and West Germany for comparison examples. North and South Korea also do well. Or how about Japanthey have much stronger relationships between the government and business than the US, yet their standard of living is far better than the USSR was. Central planned economies have done far worse than economies where markets exist, set prices, etc. In a central planned economy being politically correct is critical; efficiency is less critical. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 21, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Actually, they didn't live rich, compared to a US millionaire at the time. The GDP of the Soviet Union went backwards during it's last 10 years or so.. Interviews after the war indicated that many in the upper echelons of the Communist party still believed in their ideals. Of course, I didn't say that they lived rich compared to anybody, but that's how I don't have a leg to stand on arguments go, isn't it: how's that straw man coming along? I said: It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Sound familiar? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. But, they didn't manipulate the system for their personal benefit. If they did, they would have lived rich. They manipulated the system to achieve their ideal. Unfortunately, their ideal ran against the reality of centrally controlled economiesthe inefficiencies destroy wealth. The Soviet economy went backwards because centrally planned economies are notoriously inefficient. Inefficient means that more money goes down the toilet. Let me ask a question from another post. You argued that two jobs were lost for every job created when Wal-Mart comes into a town. Doesn't that mean that Wal-Mart needs only half the people to do the same amount of work? Are you arguing that featherbedding is a good idea? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 21 Dec 2005, at 7:04 pm, Jim Sharkey wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Aerospace is plumbing with the volume turned up. - John Carmack ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
William T Goodall wrote: Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. Microsoft may yet have another life if it manages to dominate the living room in the way it has done the office. Sales between Thanksgiving and Christmas of Media Centre edition PCs in the US have been staggering. It's not that MS get that much more for the Media Centre version of Windows (they do, of course) but the stake being claimed in the living room. Once Xbox360 takes that next step into people's home lives, it may be that they have got far enough. Sony's devices are better, Apple's 10foot interface is better, but it's the Microsoft stuff people will have, so it is Microsoft that the content providers will have to deal with. Rather than breaking the law, they will just ensure that DRM laws etc benefit them in the first place... Cheers Russell C. --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- GWAVAsig ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Jim Sharkey wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) I'm not complaining -- some of that money is coming to near me. Of course, between Dell Computers and Michael Susan Dell, we get a fair bit of computer-money philanthropy in the area anyway. :) I think the Dell name is going onto at least a wing of the new children's hospital that's being built in Austin. I'm sure a bunch of the equipment in it will be Dell stuff, as well; they were using Dell equipment for Tommy's upper GI series a little over a year ago at the existing children's hospital. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:35 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I have to chime in and say, Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem just by shopping at Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. About a quarter of the increase in productivity in the United States was attributable to Wal-Mart. Productivity gains are independent of the pay or benefits received by employees, so one cannot argue that's the source. Going to the local Wal-Mart, and going to the local mall, one can easily see the difference in the average economic status of people who shop at each place. Since my kids were looking at jobs at the mall, I can say that the benefits and wages there were not better than Wal Mart. So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some reason that inefficiency is inherently moral? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:56 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... - Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:35 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I have to chime in and say, Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem just by shopping at Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. About a quarter of the increase in productivity in the United States was attributable to Wal-Mart. Productivity gains are independent of the pay or benefits received by employees, so one cannot argue that's the source. Going to the local Wal-Mart, and going to the local mall, one can easily see the difference in the average economic status of people who shop at each place. Since my kids were looking at jobs at the mall, I can say that the benefits and wages there were not better than Wal Mart. So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some reason that inefficiency is inherently moral? Wrong question Dan. Efficiency has nothing to do with peoples dislike of Wal-Mart. But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not the other has spent time in court over business practices would be edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect at first glance. xponent Mom And Pop Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I have to chime in and say, Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem just by shopping at Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. About a quarter of the increase in productivity in the United States was attributable to Wal-Mart. Productivity gains are independent of the pay or benefits received by employees, so one cannot argue that's the source. Going to the local Wal-Mart, and going to the local mall, one can easily see the difference in the average economic status of people who shop at each place. Since my kids were looking at jobs at the mall, I can say that the benefits and wages there were not better than Wal Mart. So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some reason that inefficiency is inherently moral? Wrong question Dan. Efficiency has nothing to do with peoples dislike of Wal-Mart. But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not the other has spent time in court over business practices would be edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect at first glance. Yes. One of those companies is sued an average of 1700+ times a day every day, and one isn't. Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not the other has spent time in court over business practices would be edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect at first glance. What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? What percentage of the retail business does Wal-Mart have? Less than 9% according to Wilkipedia...which can stand correction if you have a better source. Still, I know it's not near 50%. Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). I cannot think of a comparable action by Wal-Mart. If I own a PC computer (not including Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If I want to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. Were you thinking of another comparison? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
Robert Seeberger wrote, ... How would the westward movement of settlers have been implimented without weaponry superior (in most but not all ways) to the weaponry available to the aboriginal residents (Injuns pardner)? I have heard -- but I cannot remember where -- that in the latter 19th century, say from 1860 to 1890, American aboriginals had weapons as good or better than those of the white soldiers who fought them. The big difference is that the US Army kept on coming, decade after decade, even though many of its soldiers and officers were incompetent, and the locals did not unite. In other words, the difference was not so much the technology of weaponry as the technology of organization. This contrasts with the famous verse (from Kipling? I am not sure.) regarding British conquests in Africa in the latter 19th century. The only line I remember, perhaps not quite rightly, is the one saying We have got the Gatling gun and they have not. (Although I suspect that British troops of that time would be more likely to use Maxim's machine gun.) ... conjecture leads me to think that individuals in possession of superior firepower would be a deterrent to raids and/or aboriginal insurgency in cases where (aboriginal) numbers were low enough to give advantage to the better armed group. I think so, too. -- Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
The greatest effect firearms have had upon history is to remove the advantage the large and powerful have always had over the small and weak. Is that true in a practical sense? Tzarist Russian was called a `musket empire' because its soldiers used muskets to put down the natives. In the 19th century in the United States, the Colt revolver was called `the great equalizer' since it meant that women could act as feminists and not be raped and killed by men as a consequence. In the 19th century, was that phrase merely a hope rather than an actuality? (I am speaking of large social movements, not the actions of a few in places like Wyoming.) -- Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: Re: An armed society ... The greatest effect firearms have had upon history is to remove the advantage the large and powerful have always had over the small and weak. Is that true in a practical sense? Tzarist Russian was called a `musket empire' because its soldiers used muskets to put down the natives. Indeed, I believe I have to qualify my statement and make it clear that it applies to the level of individuals. At the level of groups the large and powerful retain all advantages over smaller and weaker groups. In the 19th century in the United States, the Colt revolver was called `the great equalizer' since it meant that women could act as feminists and not be raped and killed by men as a consequence. Do you suppose that William Bonney would have achieved notoriety if he had only had edged weapons to draw upon? In the 19th century, was that phrase merely a hope rather than an actuality? (I am speaking of large social movements, not the actions of a few in places like Wyoming.) I think you are right to separate the individual from the group on this question. With regard to your question, I would think it is something of a mixed bag. Frex: How would the westward movement of settlers have been implimented without weaponry superior (in most but not all ways) to the weaponry available to the aboriginal residents (Injuns pardner)? Having no expertise on this subject, conjecture leads me to think that individuals in possession of superior firepower would be a deterrent to raids and/or aboriginal insurgency in cases where (aboriginal) numbers were low enough to give advantage to the better armed group. But if the numbers of aboriginals were large enough and their weaponry good enough to close the gap, then superior weaponry is of little use. Certainly this follows from general principles of warfare, at least I would think it is so. xponent Aboriginal Amateur Hour Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 12/4/05, Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Several years ago when Tickle Me Elmo was the hot, impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said TICKLE THIS! pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other decorations where I put them after taking them down.) (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the miniature Elmo . . .) Perhaps a used or even broken XBox controller hanging from a noose? Visibly broken might even be best, considering the point you are trying to make. Mauro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 1:18 AM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... I dated a girl who wanted me to pick anything I wanted for our song. For some reason, she seemed disappointed when I chose the hokey Pokey . . . Ronn!?..Have you been drinking the distillate of pure evil again? How many times do we have to tell you... xponent Nanny And The Professor Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] I dated a girl who wanted me to pick anything I wanted for our song. For some reason, she seemed disappointed when I chose the hokey Pokey . . . Ronn!?..Have you been drinking the distillate of pure evil again? How many times do we have to tell you... I fail to see what country music has to do with it?... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I have to chime in and say, Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem just by shopping at Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. Unless all the other sources of donuts in your entire metropolitan area have been run out of business by Wal-Mart (which is no small consideration), may I suggest that you to buy them elsewhere? Your own PS shows the wisdom of shopping elsewhere. Merry Christmas, Dave PS: Much as I want to, I cannot say that I have never set foot inside a Wal-Mart. Once, in San Diego, I went into one to extract my wife and child who, ignoring my protests, went in to some kind of super ultra mega Wal-Mart monstrosity to buy a pair of sunglasses. As if there weren't 10,000 other places to buy sunglasses. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: An armed society ...
Ritu wrote: You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. First, with respect to the idea behind the Heinlein quote, it is generally true that (reasonable) people are scrupulously polite in the face of deadly force. Most hostages treat their captors with strenuous courtesy, even if they would rather rip their intestines out and feed 'em to them. In my high school, we had fairly high racial tensions. It was generally known that not showing respect to certain kids would result in a beat-down, so those kids were accorded undue politeness and deference. An armed society is a society in which everyone is capable of dealing death. I will not live in fear. I do not want to live in a society where politeness is enforced by the fact that if I do not suck up to someone appropriately, they'll give me hot lead brain surgery. The whole argument smells way too much like Well, at least the trains ran on time. for my liking. I don't want to live in a distributed dictatorship, which is what the libertarian utopia of an armed society looks like to me. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Dave Land wrote: PS: Much as I want to, I cannot say that I have never set foot inside a Wal-Mart. Once, in San Diego, I went into one to extract my wife and child who, ignoring my protests, went in to some kind of super ultra mega Wal-Mart monstrosity to buy a pair of sunglasses. I've never spent money in one, but I have been in one, just to show my son the uniquely American sight of a sports department that has the bullets beside the baseballs and the guns with the golf clubs. It's one of his favourite stories, though most Australians he tells it to assume he means they were in the same building, not in the same square metre... Cheers Russell C. PS Does that circle this thread back to the armed society one again? --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- GWAVAsig ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: RE: An armed society ... Ritu wrote: You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. First, with respect to the idea behind the Heinlein quote, it is generally true that (reasonable) people are scrupulously polite in the face of deadly force. Most hostages treat their captors with strenuous courtesy, even if they would rather rip their intestines out and feed 'em to them. In my high school, we had fairly high racial tensions. It was generally known that not showing respect to certain kids would result in a beat-down, so those kids were accorded undue politeness and deference. An armed society is a society in which everyone is capable of dealing death. I will not live in fear. I do not want to live in a society where politeness is enforced by the fact that if I do not suck up to someone appropriately, they'll give me hot lead brain surgery. The whole argument smells way too much like Well, at least the trains ran on time. for my liking. I don't want to live in a distributed dictatorship, which is what the libertarian utopia of an armed society looks like to me. Lest we forget that swords can cut with two edges... The greatest effect firearms have had upon history is to remove the advantage the large and powerful have always had over the small and weak. But if you really fear firearms and have no faith in your fellow humans, you should rid your kitchen of large cutting bladesjust in case you piss off someone in your family and happen to go to sleep at an inopportune moment.G xponent In The News Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
At 06:35 PM Monday 12/5/2005, Dave Land wrote: On Dec 4, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work OK, I'm home sick from work today, and in my few minutes of consciousness, I really should be doing something productive, but I have to chime in and say, Gary, you're *CONTRIBUTING* to the problem just by shopping at Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart is the corporate equivalent of those rude shoppers. It shoves ahead in line, it doesn't care whose toes it steps on to get the best deal, it honks its horn and gives the finger to other businesses, and it treats its employees like crap. Unless all the other sources of donuts in your entire metropolitan area have been run out of business by Wal-Mart (which is no small consideration), may I suggest that you to buy them elsewhere? Your own PS shows the wisdom of shopping elsewhere. Merry Christmas, Dave PS: Much as I want to, I cannot say that I have never set foot inside a Wal-Mart. Once, in San Diego, I went into one to extract my wife and child who, ignoring my protests, went in to some kind of super ultra mega Wal-Mart monstrosity to buy a pair of sunglasses. As if there weren't 10,000 other places to buy sunglasses. If it is the practice of opening in the wee small hours of the morning of the Friday after Thanksgiving to sell a limited number of a particular hot toy which TV and such have programmed the children of the shoppers to believe that they will not have any friends if they fail to get that particular toy for Christmas and so the parents have been duly warned that if they are not among the first in line when the doors open before dawn that they will not get one of that particular toy for their children is what you object to, then you will have to avoid shopping at many more stores than just Wal-Mart. And as I mentioned earlier, you will have to boycott both the local and national evening news and the newspapers, as the lead story on all of them on Thanksgiving and throughout the following weekend is the early-Friday-morning shopping frenzy and whether or not retailers are satisfied with the results (they never are . . . ) 'Tis The Season Maru --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
At 08:05 PM Monday 12/5/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: RE: An armed society ... Ritu wrote: You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. First, with respect to the idea behind the Heinlein quote, it is generally true that (reasonable) people are scrupulously polite in the face of deadly force. Most hostages treat their captors with strenuous courtesy, even if they would rather rip their intestines out and feed 'em to them. In my high school, we had fairly high racial tensions. It was generally known that not showing respect to certain kids would result in a beat-down, so those kids were accorded undue politeness and deference. An armed society is a society in which everyone is capable of dealing death. I will not live in fear. I do not want to live in a society where politeness is enforced by the fact that if I do not suck up to someone appropriately, they'll give me hot lead brain surgery. The whole argument smells way too much like Well, at least the trains ran on time. for my liking. I don't want to live in a distributed dictatorship, which is what the libertarian utopia of an armed society looks like to me. Lest we forget that swords can cut with two edges... The greatest effect firearms have had upon history is to remove the advantage the large and powerful have always had over the small and weak. But if you really fear firearms and have no faith in your fellow humans, you should rid your kitchen of large cutting bladesjust in case you piss off someone in your family and happen to go to sleep at an inopportune moment.G Particularly if your wife's name is Lorena . . . Unkind Cut Maru --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: Re: An armed society ... At 08:05 PM Monday 12/5/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: RE: An armed society ... Ritu wrote: You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. First, with respect to the idea behind the Heinlein quote, it is generally true that (reasonable) people are scrupulously polite in the face of deadly force. Most hostages treat their captors with strenuous courtesy, even if they would rather rip their intestines out and feed 'em to them. In my high school, we had fairly high racial tensions. It was generally known that not showing respect to certain kids would result in a beat-down, so those kids were accorded undue politeness and deference. An armed society is a society in which everyone is capable of dealing death. I will not live in fear. I do not want to live in a society where politeness is enforced by the fact that if I do not suck up to someone appropriately, they'll give me hot lead brain surgery. The whole argument smells way too much like Well, at least the trains ran on time. for my liking. I don't want to live in a distributed dictatorship, which is what the libertarian utopia of an armed society looks like to me. Lest we forget that swords can cut with two edges... The greatest effect firearms have had upon history is to remove the advantage the large and powerful have always had over the small and weak. But if you really fear firearms and have no faith in your fellow humans, you should rid your kitchen of large cutting bladesjust in case you piss off someone in your family and happen to go to sleep at an inopportune moment.G Particularly if your wife's name is Lorena . . . Unkind Cut Maru Bobbit..the name itself is a tasty irony. xponent The Ironic Chef Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: An armed society ...
Dave Land wrote: First, with respect to the idea behind the Heinlein quote, it is generally true that (reasonable) people are scrupulously polite in the face of deadly force. Yep. An armed society is a society in which everyone is capable of dealing death. I will not live in fear. I do not want to live in a society where politeness is enforced by the fact that if I do not suck up to someone appropriately, they'll give me hot lead brain surgery. I don't disagree with these sentiments. But that is a separate issue altogether. It makes the society Heinlein was describing unappealing, and to me at least, somewhat barbaric. But that doesn't make his words 'a crock of shit'. :) That was my only point really. :) Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
On Dec 5, 2005, at 6:05 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: (With tongue firmly in cheek, one hopes) Lest we forget that swords can cut with two edges... The greatest effect firearms have had upon history is to remove the advantage the large and powerful have always had over the small and weak. But if you really fear firearms and have no faith in your fellow humans, you should rid your kitchen of large cutting bladesjust in case you piss off someone in your family and happen to go to sleep at an inopportune moment.G I know you're making a little joke, but the equivalence of knives and guns as weapons just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Even your own guns as equalizer argument goes against it: the small and weak have always had access to large cutting blades, but the strong and powerful can use 'em better. Guns are qualitatively different than knives (cleavers, swords, spears, pikes and the rest). With a gun, you just point and click, as a character said in a play. Guns are a remote control for someone else's life. Knives are proximity weapons, and even more than guns require considerable skill and strength to be deadly. Ever heard of a drive-by knifing? Or someone hiding in the bushes outside a schoolyard with a knife and killing a dozen kids? Remember when John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo knifed 10 people in Virginia? Me neither. Knifing someone is such a grisly business that not too many people have the stomach for it. Pretty much just the odd NFL star... Dave PS: When cars are outlawed, only outlaws will have cars. They are licensed, registered and highly regulated. When will the American Automobile Association finally get off its lazy ass and follow the lead of the National Rifle Association in lobbying to prevent unnecessary government intrusion into our freedom! They can have my Honda when they pry my cold, dead fingers from around the stickshift! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
At 08:26 PM Monday 12/5/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: Re: An armed society ... At 08:05 PM Monday 12/5/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: RE: An armed society ... Ritu wrote: You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. First, with respect to the idea behind the Heinlein quote, it is generally true that (reasonable) people are scrupulously polite in the face of deadly force. Most hostages treat their captors with strenuous courtesy, even if they would rather rip their intestines out and feed 'em to them. In my high school, we had fairly high racial tensions. It was generally known that not showing respect to certain kids would result in a beat-down, so those kids were accorded undue politeness and deference. An armed society is a society in which everyone is capable of dealing death. I will not live in fear. I do not want to live in a society where politeness is enforced by the fact that if I do not suck up to someone appropriately, they'll give me hot lead brain surgery. The whole argument smells way too much like Well, at least the trains ran on time. for my liking. I don't want to live in a distributed dictatorship, which is what the libertarian utopia of an armed society looks like to me. Lest we forget that swords can cut with two edges... The greatest effect firearms have had upon history is to remove the advantage the large and powerful have always had over the small and weak. But if you really fear firearms and have no faith in your fellow humans, you should rid your kitchen of large cutting bladesjust in case you piss off someone in your family and happen to go to sleep at an inopportune moment.G Particularly if your wife's name is Lorena . . . Unkind Cut Maru Bobbit..the name itself is a tasty irony. xponent The Ironic Chef Maru rob If a burglar is someone guilty of burglary, if a glutton is someone guilty of gluttony ... then God is an iron. -- Spider Robinson (1948 - ), Canadian science fiction writer. --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Mr. House Of Pain Maru wrote... Wishes may never become fishes, and unfortunate as it may be, people most often are not polite unless there is some overriding reason to be polite. Rob's wisdom is a great segue into my Annual Christmas Rant. For the first time in my work career, I had to work the Friday after Thanksgiving. That in itself wasn't a big deal as I had volunteered to work it so some of my co-workers could go out of town for Thanksgiving. Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work, and I was left speechless at just how rude and inconsiderate people were. I'm not just talking about one or two people, I'm talking about a majority of people. People were impatient and rude in the parking lot. Quick to cut someone off just to save a few steps and get 3 or 4 parking spaces closer. They were quick to honk their horns over and over if you didn't move the microsecond the light turned green, and of course they were quick to scream out the window or give the one finger salute - most had kids in the car. In the store, grown adults, were shoving and being rude in the toy department and especially electronics, because they just had to get that certain, popular toy. Others, amazingly, brought kids with them to shop and were screaming at them, to shut up and no you can't have any toys. What are these people thinking when they bring young children to shop for others and then are mean and nasty to the kids because they naturally want toys that they see? The REALLY popular item around here this year is the Nintendo DS Nintendogs Best Friends edition. It was made it VERY limited quantities and advertised like your would not believe, and I saw two grown adults, arguing and screaming at the unfortunate teenage Wal-Mart employee, about who saw the very last one, first. Naturally, my daughter wants one of the special edition Nintendo DS games, but there was NO WAY that I was going to join the feeding frenzy and act like an idiot. My son's mom (my daughter and son have different moms) , who makes sure her kids always have the latest and greatest, paid almost twice the price by buying the game and cartridge separately. She paid over $100 for the game cartridge on eBay. The game itself was a limited edition color and the cartridge was only available in the Special Limited Edition bundle, and was being sold on eBay by people who bought the game, but didn't want the cartridge. Saying that I am astounded would be an understatement. What's the point, if everyone is going to be rude and nasty? Perhaps I had a sheltered life, but growing up in the 70's, I NEVER remember anyone being rude, like I have seen in the last few years. Even now, when I go to a store now, I see the same things, maybe not as intense as the day after Thanksgiving, but still nasty and rude. So what is the cause? Why the change? Is it because people don't have patience any more? Is it because manufactures create an artificial shortage of popular products to sell other products when the Limited Editions sell out? It seems to be getting worse every year. climbing off my soapbox Gary PS - Quite by accident, one night a few days ago, I ran across one of the rare and coveted Nintendo DS Nintendog Best Friends edition bundle at Meijers The very last one, on sale no less, and I didn't have to act like a rude inconsiderate idiot to get it. :-) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Gary Nunn wrote: Is it because manufactures create an artificial shortage of popular products to sell other products when the Limited Editions sell out? In my opinion, it's because far too many parents feel that they have to purchase their children's love. My understanding is that a full 10% of the XBox 360's sold in the USA have been sold on eBay. For between $600 and $700 apiece, or a 100% markup. Had I known, I'd have ordered two, sold one, and essentially got one for free. I don't know exactly *how* the monster got created, but I do know there doesn't seem to be any way to put it back in its cave. On a related note, I consider myself lucky to live in a working class neighborhood. The pressure on my kids to keep up with the Joneses is nearly non-existent. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
At 01:16 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Gary Nunn wrote: Mr. House Of Pain Maru wrote... Wishes may never become fishes, and unfortunate as it may be, people most often are not polite unless there is some overriding reason to be polite. Rob's wisdom is a great segue into my Annual Christmas Rant. For the first time in my work career, I had to work the Friday after Thanksgiving. That in itself wasn't a big deal as I had volunteered to work it so some of my co-workers could go out of town for Thanksgiving. Driving to work, at 5:00 am that morning was a REAL eye-opener. I was astounded at the number of people at the Super Wal-Mart. I made the mistake of stopping there to pick up donuts on the way to work, and I was left speechless at just how rude and inconsiderate people were. I'm not just talking about one or two people, I'm talking about a majority of people. People were impatient and rude in the parking lot. Quick to cut someone off just to save a few steps and get 3 or 4 parking spaces closer. They were quick to honk their horns over and over if you didn't move the microsecond the light turned green, and of course they were quick to scream out the window or give the one finger salute - most had kids in the car. In the store, grown adults, were shoving and being rude in the toy department and especially electronics, because they just had to get that certain, popular toy. Others, amazingly, brought kids with them to shop and were screaming at them, to shut up and no you can't have any toys. What are these people thinking when they bring young children to shop for others and then are mean and nasty to the kids because they naturally want toys that they see? Maybe they could not find a baby sitter (perhaps 'cuz everyone else they could call also wanted to be at Wal-Mart at 0500) and so had to bring the kids with them. The REALLY popular item around here this year is the Nintendo DS Nintendogs Best Friends edition. It was made it VERY limited quantities and advertised like your would not believe, and I saw two grown adults, arguing and screaming at the unfortunate teenage Wal-Mart employee, about who saw the very last one, first. Think about those poor employees, having to get up in time to have the store open at 0500 (or 0100, as some of the stores around here have done in the past) on what for many is a long holiday weekend. But then for several years now stores like K-Mart and others have been open on Thanksgiving Day and running special sales that were only good that day. (Maybe that is their attempt to get a jump on Wal-Mart, which locally at least is closed on Thanksgiving Day itself.) Naturally, my daughter wants one of the special edition Nintendo DS games, but there was NO WAY that I was going to join the feeding frenzy and act like an idiot. My son's mom (my daughter and son have different moms) , who makes sure her kids always have the latest and greatest, paid almost twice the price by buying the game and cartridge separately. She paid over $100 for the game cartridge on eBay. The game itself was a limited edition color and the cartridge was only available in the Special Limited Edition bundle, and was being sold on eBay by people who bought the game, but didn't want the cartridge. Saying that I am astounded would be an understatement. Several years ago when Tickle Me Elmo was the hot, impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said TICKLE THIS! pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other decorations where I put them after taking them down.) (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the miniature Elmo . . .) What's the point, if everyone is going to be rude and nasty? Perhaps I had a sheltered life, but growing up in the 70's, I NEVER remember anyone being rude, like I have seen in the last few years. Even now, when I go to a store now, I see the same things, maybe not as intense as the day after Thanksgiving, but still nasty and rude. So what is the cause? Why the change? Is it because people don't have patience any more? Is it because manufactures create an artificial shortage of popular products to sell other products when the Limited Editions sell out? IMO, that (your last sentence) is a big part of it. Also, notice how much free advertising the national and local news on Thanksgiving and the following days give to those sales and their results. Me, I stay away from all the stores on Black Friday in protest. Of course, I don't have little ones who have been programmed by TV and their peers to demand that hot, impossible-to-find item, either . . . It seems to be getting worse every year. climbing off my soapbox Gary PS
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 01:16 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Gary Nunn wrote: What are these people thinking when they bring young children to shop for others and then are mean and nasty to the kids because they naturally want toys that they see? Maybe they could not find a baby sitter (perhaps 'cuz everyone else they could call also wanted to be at Wal-Mart at 0500) and so had to bring the kids with them. Hm. My kids' daddy doesn't WANT to be at Wal-Mart on that day. (Neither do I, come to think of it.) So if I really want to be at Wal-Mart the minute it opens, gee, I can leave the kids at home with him. Are some of these parents divorced? (Also, who gets a kid up that early anyway? You don't want to ENCOURAGE them to be up at 4AM!) Naturally, my daughter wants one of the special edition Nintendo DS games, but there was NO WAY that I was going to join the feeding frenzy and act like an idiot. My son's mom (my daughter and son have different moms) , who makes sure her kids always have the latest and greatest, paid almost twice the price by buying the game and cartridge separately. She paid over $100 for the game cartridge on eBay. The game itself was a limited edition color and the cartridge was only available in the Special Limited Edition bundle, and was being sold on eBay by people who bought the game, but didn't want the cartridge. Saying that I am astounded would be an understatement. Several years ago when Tickle Me Elmo was the hot, impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said TICKLE THIS! pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other decorations where I put them after taking them down.) Heh. I sold a used one for $5 a couple of months ago. (Elmo gets annoying after awhile. They've managed to break the Hokey Pokey Elmo. Unfortunately, what broke wasn't the part that controls the singing.) (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the miniature Elmo . . .) If you had the use of one for an afternoon, to take measurements, you could probably make a decent mock-up out of cardboard, masking tape and paint, couldn't you? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
At 11:54 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Julia Thompson wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 01:16 PM Sunday 12/4/2005, Gary Nunn wrote: What are these people thinking when they bring young children to shop for others and then are mean and nasty to the kids because they naturally want toys that they see? Maybe they could not find a baby sitter (perhaps 'cuz everyone else they could call also wanted to be at Wal-Mart at 0500) and so had to bring the kids with them. Hm. My kids' daddy doesn't WANT to be at Wal-Mart on that day. (Neither do I, come to think of it.) So if I really want to be at Wal-Mart the minute it opens, gee, I can leave the kids at home with him. Are some of these parents divorced? Or possibly never married in the first place. (Also, who gets a kid up that early anyway? You don't want to ENCOURAGE them to be up at 4AM!) Naturally, my daughter wants one of the special edition Nintendo DS games, but there was NO WAY that I was going to join the feeding frenzy and act like an idiot. My son's mom (my daughter and son have different moms) , who makes sure her kids always have the latest and greatest, paid almost twice the price by buying the game and cartridge separately. She paid over $100 for the game cartridge on eBay. The game itself was a limited edition color and the cartridge was only available in the Special Limited Edition bundle, and was being sold on eBay by people who bought the game, but didn't want the cartridge. Saying that I am astounded would be an understatement. Several years ago when Tickle Me Elmo was the hot, impossible-to-find item, I responded by getting one of the little 5-inch-or-so-high Elmos, tying a noose around its neck, and hanging it from the post my mailbox is attached to with a sign that said TICKLE THIS! pinned to its chest as part of my holiday decorations . . . (I suppose it may still be in a bag somewhere with other decorations where I put them after taking them down.) Heh. I sold a used one for $5 a couple of months ago. (Elmo gets annoying after awhile. About .001 seconds, if it makes noise and you are over a certain age . . . They've managed to break the Hokey Pokey Elmo. Unfortunately, what broke wasn't the part that controls the singing.) I dated a girl who wanted me to pick anything I wanted for our song. For some reason, she seemed disappointed when I chose the hokey Pokey . . . (Haven't figured out a way to do anything similar with an Xbox . . . at least not for a financial outlay comparable to that of the miniature Elmo . . .) If you had the use of one for an afternoon, to take measurements, you could probably make a decent mock-up out of cardboard, masking tape and paint, couldn't you? Assuming I had nothing else to do . . . --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
Dave Land wrote: On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Robert J. Chassell wrote: An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein, _Beyond the Horizon_, 1942 I am not much of a sci-fi fan, and I suspect that there may be one or two in this group, so let me ask: Is it Gospel because it is Heinlein, or can one safely read this and say what a crock of shit? I have a friend who is a fairly well-rounded geek (i.e., has read or seen a little of everything), and one evening in college (we were in the same dorm), I was walking by with two books, and he asked what they were. Oh, I've got one by Heinlein and one by Dick. Isn't that redundant? Take from that what you will. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: An armed society ...
Dave Land wrote: On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Robert J. Chassell wrote: An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein, _Beyond the Horizon_, 1942 I am not much of a sci-fi fan, and I suspect that there may be one or two in this group, so let me ask: Is it Gospel because it is Heinlein, or can one safely read this and say what a crock of shit? You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
Ritu wrote: You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. While there may be some truth to this, one would hope there are other, far superior ways to encourage politeness. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
Doug Pensinger wrote: Ritu wrote: You don't have to be fan of SF to appreciate what he was trying to say. According to my observations, the more lethal the members of a society are, the more emphasis the social norms lay on politeness. As John explained to me in Korea, when a stare is taken as an invitation for verbal abuse, and the wrong tone of voice or wrong body language can spark of fight with black-belts, people learn to be scrupulously polite. While there may be some truth to this, one would hope there are other, far superior ways to encourage politeness. Wishes may never become fishes, and unfortunate as it may be, people most often are not polite unless there is some overiding reason to be polite. We are often disappointed at our primitive emotional natures. Most of us fail to see the inner strength that comes with self-discipline. xponent The House Of Pain Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
Dave Land wrote: An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein, _Beyond the Horizon_, 1942 I am not much of a sci-fi fan, Die, heretic scum! and I suspect that there may be one or two in this group, so let me ask: Is it Gospel because it is Heinlein, or can one safely read this and say what a crock of shit? Die again, heretic scum! Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Robert J. Chassell wrote: An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein, _Beyond the Horizon_, 1942 I am not much of a sci-fi fan, and I suspect that there may be one or two in this group, so let me ask: Is it Gospel because it is Heinlein, or can one safely read this and say what a crock of shit? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:14:34 -0800 Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Robert J. Chassell wrote: An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein, _Beyond the Horizon_, 1942 I am not much of a sci-fi fan, and I suspect that there may be one or two in this group, so let me ask: Is it Gospel because it is Heinlein, or can one safely read this and say what a crock of shit? Dave Well Dave is some one had a gun pointed at me I would be very mannerly I know that, with the yes sirs no sirs and three bag full sirs (OK for the P.C. of you out there Yes Person of indiscriminate Sex :¬} -- ___ The pen is mightier than the sword! Edward Bulwer-Lytton (1803-73) Just look what happened in the US in 2000 Bush wins with the Pen of a Judge! Alex Gogan (1968- gulp!) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/188 - Release Date: 29/11/2005 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An armed society ...
Dave Land wrote: On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Robert J. Chassell wrote: An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein, _Beyond the Horizon_, 1942 I am not much of a sci-fi fan, and I suspect that there may be one or two in this group, so let me ask: Is it Gospel because it is Heinlein, or can one safely read this and say what a crock of shit? Judging from what I've seen over several years on Skiffy mailing lists: Both But...if you recall the massive evacuation of southeast Texas after Hurricane Rita and consider that this is after all Texas.everyone who owned a handgun (some value of a majority) was packing a handgun during the evac (and everyone knew it). People were very well behaved under *very* stressful conditions. Not that they were necessarily polite mind you.G xponent Anecdotal Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
