Re: Books, was Proper function..
David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sorry no. Not any of the books Google finds with > that title, nor the Stephenson novel with a similar title. > I've read Cryptonomicon, which was O.K., if a bit long > for the content. I skipped Crypto, I imagine I would have had the same impression as you. Anathem (I mistyped an -a before) is about 900 pages, but after the first 80 pages or so the action picks up and it did not drag at all for me. I'd say it is somewhere in between Snow Crash and the Baroque Cycle books as far as balance between action and exposition. > How about Saturn's Children? I have not read it. I had the impression it was pulp SF, but that was just from reading a couple blurbs about it. Do you recommend it? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
John Williams wrote: > David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Sorry no. Not any of the books Google finds with >> that title, nor the Stephenson novel with a similar title. >> I've read Cryptonomicon, which was O.K., if a bit long >> for the content. > > I skipped Crypto, I imagine I would have had the same > impression as you. > > Anathem (I mistyped an -a before) is about 900 pages, but > after the first 80 pages or so the action picks up and it > did not drag at all for me. I'd say it is somewhere in > between Snow Crash and the Baroque Cycle books as far as > balance between action and exposition. Sounds good. The Baroque Cycle was scary in its length, and I was not too impressed with his habit of having ancestors or descendants of characters also being characters. (I read an excerpt.) >> How about Saturn's Children? > > I have not read it. I had the impression it was pulp SF, > but that was just from reading a couple blurbs about it. > Do you recommend it? Probably from the cover? : ) Charles Stross had a piece on his blog about how authors have pretty much no control over how their books are marketed by most publishers. Yes, I recommend it. Stross may not have the most polished writing, but the rest of his books are amazing. My favorites of his are the ones that start with The Atrocity Archives. Not everyone would come up with Lovecraftian computer science. ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, John Williams wrote: > Anathem (I mistyped an -a before) is about 900 pages, but > after the first 80 pages or so the action picks up and it > did not drag at all for me. I'd say it is somewhere in > between Snow Crash and the Baroque Cycle books as far as > balance between action and exposition. I haven't read the Baroque Cycle. If anyone has read Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon and Anathem, I'd be interested in some sort of comparison between the three. (Give me some time and I'll be making it myself, though.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
David said: > My favorites of his are the ones that start with > The Atrocity Archives. Not everyone would come > up with Lovecraftian computer science. I must read more Stross. At the moment all I've read was "A Colder War", which I thought was great (and which is available for free online). Having said that, I've had his _Singularity Sky_ and _Iron Sunrise_ on my bookshelves for a couple of years now and haven't quite worked up enough enthusiasm to read them. I'm having - and here I might have to turn in my Culture List membership - the same problem with Banks' _The Algebraist_ and _Matter_. The next fiction I'll read will probably be Greg Egan's _Incandesence_. I've enjoyed his novels quite a lot, flawed though they are, but wish there was more of a market for his short stories. As I'll probably be off work ill for one more day I might read it tomorrow. Rich, who has some enthusiasm for reading the Baroque Cycle, but that enthusiasm is outweighed by being intimidated by the sheer number of pages. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Anathem (I mistyped an -a before) is about 900 pages, but >> after the first 80 pages or so the action picks up and it >> did not drag at all for me. I'd say it is somewhere in >> between Snow Crash and the Baroque Cycle books as far as >> balance between action and exposition. > > I haven't read the Baroque Cycle. If anyone has read Snow Crash, > Cryptonomicon and Anathem, I'd be interested in some sort of comparison > between the three. (Give me some time and I'll be making it myself, > though.) I've read those three without reading the Baroque Cycle so I will try. Snow Crash is a brilliant piece of adventure cyberpunk ten years after anyone was taking it seriously. He then played in the post-cyberpunk world before writing Cryptonomicom, a sort of Slashdot version of the 20th Century. Anathem is what Cryptonomicom would be if it covered the whole of Western civilisaton from Plato onwards. Basically if you like Cryptonomicom plus Snow Crash you will like Anathem. Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Martin Lewis wrote: > Basically if you like Cryptonomicom plus Snow Crash you will like Anathem. OK, good to know -- I have something to really look forward to next week, then! :) Thank you very much, Martin. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Martin Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > post-cyberpunk world before writing Cryptonomicom, a sort of Slashdot > version of the 20th Century. Anathem is what Cryptonomicom would be if > it covered the whole of Western civilisaton from Plato onwards. For someone who has read Anathem but not Cryptonomicon, can you expand on the "Slashdot version of the 20th Century"? The slashdot comment makes me think of Stand on Zanzibar, but I guess that is not what you meant. What did you think of Anathem? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Probably from the cover? : ) Partly, and the blurb I read focused on the android sex element. > Yes, I recommend it. Stross > may not have the most polished writing, but the > rest of his books are amazing. Okay, I've added it to my list. I'm not sure if I will get it before The Temporal Void which should be coming in a couple weeks. > My favorites of his are the ones that start with > The Atrocity Archives. Not everyone would come > up with Lovecraftian computer science. Do you think someone who doesn't care for Lovecraft would like them? I also didn't enjoy The Da Vinci Code. I gather you liked these better than Cryptonomicon? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Richard Baker wrote: > David said: > >> My favorites of his are the ones that start with >> The Atrocity Archives. Not everyone would come >> up with Lovecraftian computer science. > > I must read more Stross. At the moment all I've read was "A Colder > War", which I thought was great (and which is available for free > online). Rich-- I like all of his books, and recommend them highly. None are perfect, but all have some brilliant parts. I'd say that the best overall in terms of plot, imagery, humor and writing is Glasshouse. By the way, there's also a short story in the Atrocity Archives sequence that's free online: http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=61 > Having said that, I've had his _Singularity Sky_ and _Iron > Sunrise_ on my bookshelves for a couple of years now and haven't quite > worked up enough enthusiasm to read them. I'm having - and here I > might have to turn in my Culture List membership - the same problem > with Banks' _The Algebraist_ and _Matter_. All four are good. Banks' books are always well-executed-- the worst complaint one can make is they're too much like some of the others. > The next fiction I'll read will probably be Greg Egan's > _Incandesence_. I've enjoyed his novels quite a lot, flawed though > they are, but wish there was more of a market for his short stories. > As I'll probably be off work ill for one more day I might read it > tomorrow. What I've read of Egan, I really like. He does have a "hard science" point of view, which means he's not for everyone. I did read the short story "Riding the Crocodile", which seems to be set in the same universe. > Rich, who has some enthusiasm for reading the Baroque Cycle, but that > enthusiasm is outweighed by being intimidated by the sheer number of > pages. Exactly. ---David The phrase "iron sunrise" is to "knuckle sandwich" as blank is to "loose change"? Analogies, Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
John Williams wrote: > David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Probably from the cover? : ) > > Partly, and the blurb I read focused on the android sex > element. Well, she's a fembot, she's SUPPOSED to have android sex. But yes, I had my doubts about the book at first. >> Yes, I recommend it. Stross >> may not have the most polished writing, but the >> rest of his books are amazing. > > Okay, I've added it to my list. I'm not sure if I will > get it before The Temporal Void which should be > coming in a couple weeks. Would that be Hamilton's _The Dreaming Void_? I've read it, but probably should have waited until the whole series came out and then read them all. I guess I like Hamilton, but can't figure out why. >> My favorites of his are the ones that start with >> The Atrocity Archives. Not everyone would come >> up with Lovecraftian computer science. > > Do you think someone who doesn't care for Lovecraft > would like them? I also didn't enjoy The Da Vinci Code. > I gather you liked these better than Cryptonomicon? They're not supernatural horror at all. They're just set in a Lovecraftian universe. The secret service called the Laundry is more than up to dealing with nameless horrors from non-Euclidean geometries. (Although they're not sure about the Great Old Ones...) I'm not sure The Da Vinci Code belongs with the others. It's really not science fiction, although it seems to be set ten years in the future. My problem with it is that the ending is pretty lame. Don't get me wrong, Cryptonomicon has some good parts. I'm just not sure they justify the length. It could be that The Atrocity Archives is best appreciated if you know a lot of theoretical computer science, so I'll withhold comment. There's a sequel called The Jennifer Morgue which is a relatively straightforward James Bond parody. That, I'd recommend to anyone. ---David Robots in space, Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
>>> My favorites of his are the ones that start with >>> The Atrocity Archives. Not everyone would come >>> up with Lovecraftian computer science. >> I must read more Stross. At the moment all I've read was "A Colder >> War", which I thought was great (and which is available for free >> online). > I like all of his books, and recommend them highly. None > are perfect, but all have some brilliant parts. I'd say > that the best overall in terms of plot, imagery, humor and > writing is Glasshouse. By the way, there's also a short > story in the Atrocity Archives sequence that's free online: > http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=61 I like his ideas but I'm hoping he improves his technique. Speaking of enjoyable SF, the best I've read recently is The Ghost Brigades by John Scalzi. I liked Old Mans War (to which it is a sequel) but The Ghost Brigades is a startlingly good follow up into a differnet league. Unfortunately the third book, The Last Colony, doesn't keep it up. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
David wrote: >How about Saturn's Children? I just bought a buttload of books from SFBC, and that was among them. If people are interested in talking about it, I could move it up in the queue. I'm in the middle of re-reading _Watchmen_, which has held up very well over the past ~25 years. Jim Rorschach Maru Lobster This will do in a pinch. Click here to have fresh, delicious lobster delivered to your door! http://tagline.excite.com/fc/JkJQPTgLehFoAifIyQ7Gh2AS1NPL605MuIPvlObBvAvdzEprLSi9B6/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Well, she's a fembot, she's SUPPOSED to have > android sex. Isn't that, ummm, speciest? DNA'ist? Why can't she have sex with a human? :-) > Would that be Hamilton's _The Dreaming Void_? No, "The Temporal Void", the sequel to Dreaming. amazon.co.uk should be "dispatching" it on Oct 3. > I guess I like Hamilton, but can't > figure out why. For me, I like his invented technologies, most of his characters, and I can never resist a great action plot. Also, the Raiel are a wonderful creation. > Don't get me wrong, Cryptonomicon has some good parts. > I'm just not sure they justify the length. I think that some authors, after becoming successful, have that problem. I guess that most SF authors write a lot of words about their world, but early on either the authors, or their editors, cut out a lot of the unnecessary parts. After a big hit or two, it seems the knife gets misplaced. > It could be that The Atrocity Archives is best > appreciated if you know a lot of theoretical computer > science, so I'll withhold comment. Did Stross come from a CS background? When you say theoretical computer science, do you mean something like Knuth or Sedgewick? Or further back, like von Neumann? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Books, was Proper function..
> > Well, she's a fembot, she's SUPPOSED to have > > android sex. > > Isn't that, ummm, speciest? DNA'ist? Why can't she > have sex with a human? :-) Um... that's the plot of the book. She's a sexbot designed for having sex with humans but there aren't any humans left to have sex with... > > It could be that The Atrocity Archives is best > > appreciated if you know a lot of theoretical computer > > science, so I'll withhold comment. > > Did Stross come from a CS background? When you say theoretical > computer science, do you mean something like Knuth or Sedgewick? > Or further back, like von Neumann? Yes, Stross has a CS degree and it shows. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stross -- --Max Battcher-- http://worldmaker.net The wiki has so many easy answers Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Max Battcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Um... that's the plot of the book. She's a sexbot designed for having sex > with humans but there aren't any humans left to have sex with... Now I'm wondering what happened to all the humans. I'll definitely have to check it out now. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Richard > > Rich, who has some enthusiasm for reading the Baroque Cycle, but that > enthusiasm is outweighed by being intimidated by the sheer number of > pages. But you must have read thousands of pages of history! The Baroque Cycle seems to be very well researched, and its recreations of 18th century England and France are incredible. It took me a long time to get through them (as it does for me to get through history), but they were very much worth it. I know I'll read them again. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Doug said: > But you must have read thousands of pages of history! About sixty thousand pages of history, I'd estimate. Not nearly enough, anyway. But the problem is the opportunity cost of reading the Baroque Cycle. In that number of pages I could get through, for example, the whole surviving part of Livy's history of Rome, or a handful of modern histories. I'll get to it eventually, I suppose. Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, John Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> post-cyberpunk world before writing Cryptonomicom, a sort of Slashdot >> version of the 20th Century. Anathem is what Cryptonomicom would be if >> it covered the whole of Western civilisaton from Plato onwards. > > For someone who has read Anathem but not Cryptonomicon, can you expand > on the "Slashdot version of the 20th Century"? The slashdot comment makes me > think of Stand on Zanzibar, but I guess that is not what you meant. It just ticks all the boxes for that crowd: history of computing, data havens, conspiracy theories, random trivia. > What did you think of Anathem? I liked it: http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2008/09/anathem_by_neal.shtml Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
John Williams wrote: > Max Battcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Um... that's the plot of the book. She's a sexbot designed for having sex >> with humans but there aren't any humans left to have sex with... > > Now I'm wondering what happened to all the humans. I'll definitely > have to check it out now. They got "distracted", and stopped reproducing. : ) ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Martin Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I liked it: > > http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2008/09/anathem_by_neal.shtml Interesting review. I must admit this comparison would have never occurred to me: "In fact, with its longeurs and constant debate, it occasionally resembles an unholy hybrid of The Republic and Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, and it can be every bit as tediously wearing as that sounds." I haven't read either of those, but I believe I can see what you are getting at. Although I didn't find it as tedious as you suggest, since I didn't expect a lot of character depth from Stephenson, and I tended to glide over the philosophy passages. One thing you didn't get into in the review which I found interesting was the segregation of Tens, Hundreders, and Thousanders, and the effects this had on preserving (or creating) knowledge and culture. Actually, I think Stephenson could have done more with the idea, butwell, I was going to say something that might give away too much for those who haven't read it yet. Rather than discuss it now (with a warning), I think I wait until a few more people here have read it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
John Williams wrote: > >> Um... that's the plot of the book. She's a sexbot designed >> for having sex with humans but there aren't any humans left >> to have sex with... > > Now I'm wondering what happened to all the humans. I'll definitely > have to check it out now. > Since I didn't read it, I don't spoil it... Of course humans went extinct. As soon as sexbots exist, human will prefer to have sex with bots instead of other humans, and then sex does not create new life - extinction. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Alberto Monteiro wrote: > John Williams wrote: >>> Um... that's the plot of the book. She's a sexbot designed >>> for having sex with humans but there aren't any humans left >>> to have sex with... >> Now I'm wondering what happened to all the humans. I'll definitely >> have to check it out now. >> > Since I didn't read it, I don't spoil it... > > Of course humans went extinct. As soon as sexbots exist, human > will prefer to have sex with bots instead of other humans, > and then sex does not create new life - extinction. The Gospel According to Futurama has a classic documentary entitled "Don't Date Robots!" in the episode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Dated_a_Robot It tells the plight of Billy Everyteen in the world of sexbots. This seems to be a borrowed copy of the documentary (didn't load for me): http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/48647/detail/ -- --Max Battcher-- http://worldmaker.net One of many topics that are explained/foretold in the canon of Futurama Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Rich wrote: Doug said: > > > But you must have read thousands of pages of history! > > About sixty thousand pages of history, I'd estimate. Not nearly > enough, anyway. Well that sounds like a hell of a lot to me. I've read a bit of American history, especially the Civil War, but I don't have the kind of command of the facts that you do on what you've studied (especially with my library still in boxes). > But the problem is the opportunity cost of reading the Baroque Cycle. > In that number of pages I could get through, for example, the whole > surviving part of Livy's history of Rome, or a handful of modern > histories. I'll get to it eventually, I suppose. Well don't feel guilty about reading the Livy even if you _never_ get to the Stephenson. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
Doug said: >> About sixty thousand pages of history, I'd estimate. Not nearly >> enough, anyway. > > Well that sounds like a hell of a lot to me. I've read a bit of > American > history, especially the Civil War, but I don't have the kind of > command of > the facts that you do on what you've studied (especially with my > library > still in boxes). It would be a lot if I'd focused on one period but I've been trying to at least make an attempt to cover all regions and periods fairly evenly (despite my innate bias towards Romans and Egyptians). The rough map of history I drew a few years ago(*) has around 90 such region-period boxes on it so on average I've only read around six or seven hundred pages on each. On quite a lot of them I've read *nothing*. And that map doesn't even show south-east Asia, most of Africa, the Pacific and Australia or the Americas, nor does it include such short-lived but not entirely negligible polities as the British Empire, the Soviet Union or the United States of America. Rich (*) http://www.theculture.org/rich/sharpblue/archives/000147.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Euan Ritchie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Speaking of enjoyable SF, the best I've read recently is The Ghost > Brigades by John Scalzi. > > I liked Old Mans War (to which it is a sequel) but The Ghost Brigades is > a startlingly good follow up into a differnet league. I also highly recommend _The Android's Dream_ by Scalzi. Imagine, if you will, _The Ghost Brigades_ meets Douglas Adams. Scalzi also has one of the oldest and longest-running blogs in the internet at whatever.com. In fact, he was nominated for two Hugo's this past round, one for best fan writer for his blog, which he won, and one for best novel for _The Lost Colony_, which you didn't like, Euan, but which only lost the Hugo by nine votes to _The Yiddish Policeman's Ball_ by some guy who won a Pulitzer or something :-) -- Mauro Diotallevi "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again." ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Books, was Proper function..
John Williams wrote: > David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... >> It could be that The Atrocity Archives is best >> appreciated if you know a lot of theoretical computer >> science, so I'll withhold comment. > > Did Stross come from a CS background? When you say theoretical > computer science, do you mean something like Knuth or Sedgewick? > Or further back, like von Neumann? John-- I guess I'd say "like Karp". The books are set in a universe(?) where P equals NP. Once one has a polynomial- time algorithm for doing NP-complete problems, Computational Demonology becomes feasible... : ) He has a few other stories where P equals NP. One of those is "Antibodies", which appears in _Toast, and other rusted futures_. Apparently the standard behavior for AIs that get a bit above human level in intelligence is to promptly rush to transcendence, eventually hacking the computational substrate of the universe itself. Finding how to do NP-complete problems in polynomial time is one of their first steps along the way... ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
