Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 04:17:31PM -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: > Yes, we have toxic waste and obnoxious IROC drivers, but otherwise > it's not too bad a place. Either that or I'm beyond help, which is > not out of the realm of possibility. Transportation sucks. Traffic is horrible, and public transit has poor coverage unless you just want to go to New York or Philly. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
Erik Reuter wrote: >Jim Sharkey wrote: >> Yes, we have toxic waste and obnoxious IROC drivers, but >>otherwise it's not too bad a place. >Transportation sucks. Traffic is horrible, and public transit has >poor coverage unless you just want to go to New York or Philly. Traffic's no worse than Atlanta or LA. Public transportation's not too good, true, but then I take the Northeast Corridor train every day, which is usually pretty good. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> Transportation sucks. Traffic is horrible, and public transit has poor > coverage unless you just want to go to New York or Philly. > Well, bad traffic and poor public transit are not unique to New Jersey. At least New Jersey *has* New York and Philly to go to...not too many states are situated so favorably between two such terrific cities. New Jersey gets bad press...mostly by people who have never actually been here or whose personal experience is limited to the area around Newark Airport...which would be kind of like judging the entire state of Alaska only by looking at Prince William Sound immediately after the Exxon Valdez crashed and spilled. Or like judging the entire state of Texas by...the entire state of Texas. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 08:29:17PM -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: > Traffic's no worse than Atlanta or LA. That would be damning with faint praise? Or like saying Fargo has nice weather compared to Antarctica? -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 08:36:51PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, bad traffic and poor public transit are not unique to New > Jersey. At least New Jersey *has* New York and Philly to go to...not > too many states are situated so favorably between two such terrific > cities. If you want to spend hours commuting to and from work, Jersey's your place then! -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> New Jersey gets bad press...mostly by people who > have never actually been > here or whose personal experience is limited to the > area around Newark > Airport...which would be kind of like judging the > entire state of Alaska only by looking > at Prince William Sound immediately after the Exxon > Valdez crashed and > spilled. Or like judging the entire state of Texas > by...the entire state of Texas. Good point. However, it cannot alter my opinion of NJ since I have to look across the Delaware River at the butt end of a little town of Phillipsburg... Damon, and if you don't know anything about P'burg, count yourself blessed. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> If you want to spend hours commuting to and from work, Jersey's your place > then! > You're acting like New Jersey is somehow uniquely bad in this regard. The traffic near Boston, DC, Long Island, LA, and Atlanta is at least at bad and probably worse. The Long Island Expressway is not nicknamed "The World's Longest Parking Lot" for nothing. (On the other hand, I will admit that around here, people pray not to have to commute through Princeton...) Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
Erik Reuter wrote: >Jim Sharkey wrote: >> Traffic's no worse than Atlanta or LA. >That would be damning with faint praise? Or like saying Fargo has >nice weather compared to Antarctica? No, it's that if you are going to say that the place sucks because of the traffic, you're going to have to say that cities people treat as being better than NJ suck too. I've lived in NJ 32 out of my 35 years. I know it has problems. I also know that it's not the armpit of America the way it gets made out to be. If it wasn't for the "little brother of NYC" it seems to get, it wouldn't have the same bad press. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
Tom Beck wrote: >You're acting like New Jersey is somehow uniquely bad in this >regard. The traffic near Boston, DC, Long Island, LA, and Atlanta >is at least at bad and probably worse. Exactly. You *could* move to Montana and never see two cars at the same time on the roads, but I don't know how many engineers they're hiring. Jim Suck it up Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 09:07:26PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > You're acting like New Jersey is somehow uniquely bad in this > regard. The No, I'm not. And we won't say what you are acting like :-) -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 09:10:19PM -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: > No, it's that if you are going to say that the place sucks because of > the traffic, you're going to have to say that cities people treat as > being better than NJ suck too. No, I don't have to. Face it, Jersey sucks! Don't be a Jersey apologist :-) -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 09:13:29PM -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: > Exactly. You *could* move to Montana and never see two cars at the > same time on the roads, but I don't know how many engineers they're > hiring. Or Jersey could build better roads and public transportation that doesn't suck! -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
Erik Reuter wrote: >No, I don't have to. Face it, Jersey sucks! Don't be a Jersey >apologist :-) hehehe, well, I'll admit that we *do* need to apologize big hair, flashing license plate frames, and ever allowing Joe Pisarcik to be a quarterback. We good? :) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
Erik Reuter wrote: >Or Jersey could build better roads and public transportation >that doesn't suck! It's been my observation that at least part of the problem with improving public transportation is that Americans like their cars too much. If the state *was* to improve the system, I really don't know how many peope would actually take it. And of course, there's the question of who would pay for it. Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation system in the Metro winds up with loads of traffic. Jim Lived there the other three years Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> It's been my observation that at least part of the problem with improving > public transportation is that Americans like their cars too much. If the > state *was* to improve the system, I really don't know how many peope would > actually take it. And of course, there's the question of who would pay for it. > > Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation system in the > Metro winds up with loads of traffic. > A) That's true B) Don't bother arguing with Erik - he's baiting us. There's no point responding to his obvious (if lame) attempts at trolling. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 09:32:03PM -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: > Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation system in > the Metro winds up with loads of traffic. But then you have a CHOICE! You don't have to sit in traffic, you can take the subway! New York city and Chicago both have useful train systems and lots of traffic -- I'll choose the train every time (and live close to a train). In Jersey, there just aren't enough train lines to live next to unless you just want to commute to New York or Philly, in which case, I'd rather live in New York or Philly anyway! -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 09:34:41PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > B) Don't bother arguing with Erik - he's baiting us. There's no point > responding to his obvious (if lame) attempts at trolling. Wrong as usual, Tom. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:36 PM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > New Jersey gets bad press...mostly by people who have never actually been > here or whose personal experience is limited to the area around Newark > Airport...which would be kind of like judging the entire state of Alaska only by looking > at Prince William Sound immediately after the Exxon Valdez crashed and > spilled. Or like judging the entire state of Texas by...the entire state of Texas. Texas won't stand for such insults Tom! >From this day forward every Mexican I meet will hear about what a wonderful place New Jersey is and how much more money they will make if they move there. :) xponent Don't Mess With Texas Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> Texas won't stand for such insults Tom! > Texas is SO touchy. For all its size and bluster, it must really be nervous and not at all as self-confident as it tries to make itself seem. > >From this day forward every Mexican I meet will hear about what a > wonderful > place New Jersey is and how much more money they will make if they move > there. > Except, you won't ever meet any more Mexicans, as they've all already moved here. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
Erik Reuter wrote: >Jim Sharkey wrote: >> Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation >>system in the Metro winds up with loads of traffic. >In Jersey, there just aren't enough train lines to live next to >unless you just want to commute to New York or Philly, in which >case, I'd rather live in New York or Philly anyway! That's understandable. However, the desire to live in cities changes in many people as they get older, get married, and raise children. At that point, they have to go somewhere. And NJ is no worse a choice than Long Island, Westchester, and etc. And as Tom pointed out, those aren't convenient either. You really can't compare a subway system to suburban rails anyway. I don't see them as the same animal. Even the Metro, which I've already spoken well of, has limited suburban stops. Can anyone cite me an example of good public transportation *into* a metropolitan area? Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 01:05:38AM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: > From this day forward every Mexican I meet will hear about what a > wonderful place New Jersey is and how much more money they will make > if they move there. Actually, there are quite a few Mexicans living and working in Jersey. It seems most yardwork, snow shoveling, home remodeling work, etc. is done by going to the "pick-up zone" and hiring a few Mexicans. It sounds rather sad, but all parties involved seem to be voluntarily gaining a benefit of some sort, so it may actually be for the best. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 08:40:07AM -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: > Can anyone cite me an example of good public transportation *into* a > metropolitan area? Chicago and Cincinnati both have excellent buses from the suburbs to the city. But that isn't the issue. NJ has bad roads, few trains, and horrible buses. There is no choice for most people but to sit in traffic. It sucks, no matter how much the apologists compare it to other cities with bad traffic but good buses and/or trains. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
At 08:40 AM 11/2/03 -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: >Jim Sharkey wrote: >> Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation >>system in the Metro winds up with loads of traffic. >In Jersey, there just aren't enough train lines to live next to >unless you just want to commute to New York or Philly, in which >case, I'd rather live in New York or Philly anyway! That's understandable. However, the desire to live in cities changes in many people as they get older, get married, and raise children. At that point, they have to go somewhere. And NJ is no worse a choice than Long Island, Westchester, and etc. And as Tom pointed out, those aren't convenient either. You really can't compare a subway system to suburban rails anyway. I don't see them as the same animal. Even the Metro, which I've already spoken well of, has limited suburban stops. Can anyone cite me an example of good public transportation *into* a metropolitan area? I'm not sure what you mean by "good public transportation" here. If you mean for getting commuters in to the city in the morning and back out to their homes some distance away at night, I was under the impression that New York City probably had the best such system in the country. Is that not what you mean, or is my impression incorrect? What is really a problem with relying on public transportation in many cities I have lived in/near is when neither your home nor your job site is right downtown. Instead of a 30-minute drive directly from your house to your office (or whatever), you have take a bus that takes the better part of an hour to get downtown, then wait there sometimes for an hour or more for another bus that will take an hour to get you back out to the vicinity of where you work. If you're lucky, you get to leave home about 5 am in order to get to work by 8. If you're not lucky, the first bus of the morning which goes past your home does not get downtown until the only bus going out to the area where you work has already left, so you are simply SOOL if you don't have a reliable car . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:02:19 -0600 At 08:40 AM 11/2/03 -0500, Jim Sharkey wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: >Jim Sharkey wrote: >> Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation >>system in the Metro winds up with loads of traffic. >In Jersey, there just aren't enough train lines to live next to >unless you just want to commute to New York or Philly, in which >case, I'd rather live in New York or Philly anyway! That's understandable. However, the desire to live in cities changes in many people as they get older, get married, and raise children. At that point, they have to go somewhere. And NJ is no worse a choice than Long Island, Westchester, and etc. And as Tom pointed out, those aren't convenient either. You really can't compare a subway system to suburban rails anyway. I don't see them as the same animal. Even the Metro, which I've already spoken well of, has limited suburban stops. Can anyone cite me an example of good public transportation *into* a metropolitan area? I'm not sure what you mean by "good public transportation" here. If you mean for getting commuters in to the city in the morning and back out to their homes some distance away at night, I was under the impression that New York City probably had the best such system in the country. Is that not what you mean, or is my impression incorrect? New York's Long Island Rail Road is probably the best example I can think of (and the obvious choice for me, considering I use it every day.) Metro North (CT and Upstate NY from NYC) is a decent system, but trains don't necessarily run as frequently as you might expect. LIRR is really expensive, though. I spend more than $200 on my monthly commute, including subway. With parking costs, that's still cheaper than using the car everyday. A better comparison for New Jersey might be Westchester or Rockland Counties in NY. Queens and Nassau Counties (Long Island) don't really have the suburban feel that most of NJ does anymore. And LIRR and the NYC subway handle a much higher volume of traffic than NJTransit. The main thing I notice when I travel is that the subway or rail systems in other cities is not that they're schedules are less convenient, but that they are typically a LOT cleaner. From DC's Metro to Portland's Light Rail, the systems look much better. Of course, the traffic volume argument also applies. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers. https://broadband.msn.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Jim Sharkey wrote: > > Reggie Bautista wrote: > >Someone else said once in the same newsgroup "Of course, since > >JMS is an atheist, he doesn't believe in hell, anyway." > > >jms' reply was "Says you. I'm FROM New Jersey" > > Now, why does everyone have to crack on New Jersey? There aren't that > many areas in the world where you are always within three hours' drive > of the ocean, mountains, and major metropolitan areas. > > Yes, we have toxic waste and obnoxious IROC drivers, but otherwise it's > not too bad a place. Either that or I'm beyond help, which is not out > of the realm of possibility. You can also get "hamburger relish" there (it has some form of tomato in it), which you can't get in Austin or Phoenix. I'm going to have to ask my sister to get some next time she's visiting her future parents-in-law, to send to *my* parents-in-law. :) My father-in-law grew up in New Jersey, one of his sisters still lives there, and he visits regularly, though not as often as he did when his father was still alive. The part of New Jersey he grew up in is pretty, but the whole thing of not being *allowed* to pump your own gas bugged us. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > New Jersey gets bad press...mostly by people who have never actually > been here or whose personal experience is limited to the area around > Newark Airport...which would be kind of like judging the entire state of > Alaska only by looking at Prince William Sound immediately after the > Exxon Valdez crashed and spilled. Or like judging the entire state of > Texas by...the entire state of Texas. When I was going to school in Austin but still nominally living with my mother in New Hampshire, I ran into 3 kinds of people: Those who had never been to Texas, and weren't sure why I liked it so much, those who had been to Texas but not to Austin who thought that I was totally insane for liking it, and people who had been to Austin or the Hill Country area nearby, and who would very happily and enthusiastically exclaim, "Texas Hill Country!" when I said I was going to school in Austin. So, there's a bit of Texas that has at least *some* redeeming quality. :) But if you don't like it, don't come here, that leaves more of it for the rest of us. (And speaking of hills, our house is near the top of one, and we have a gorgeous view to the north in our backyard, starting with the floodplain that we think some neighbors are kinda stupid for building on, and going up to Hutto proper a few miles away and then nothing but gorgeous Texas sky. The view to the south has a much closer horizon.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Jim Sharkey wrote: > Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation system in > the Metro winds up with loads of traffic. You can survive a lot better in DC without a car than you can in, say, northwest Austin. (Which is still more survivable without a car than where I'm living *now*.) The DC Metro system rocks! Julia who managed to get from the Columbia Heights neighborhood to BWI on public transportation and MARC, with a *huge* suitcase and a couple of other bags about 3 years ago ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: > On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 01:05:38AM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > From this day forward every Mexican I meet will hear about what a > > wonderful place New Jersey is and how much more money they will make > > if they move there. > > Actually, there are quite a few Mexicans living and working in Jersey. > It seems most yardwork, snow shoveling, home remodeling work, etc. is > done by going to the "pick-up zone" and hiring a few Mexicans. It sounds > rather sad, but all parties involved seem to be voluntarily gaining a > benefit of some sort, so it may actually be for the best. We've got sites like that in Austin. But it's not just Mexicans, there are white people there looking for that sort of work as well. Most of the Mexican-Mexicans (as opposed to people of Mexican descent who were born here) I see working are hired by builders or yard care companies and have somewhat more regular work than that. Do you see many Mexicans with more regular employment than just pick-up work? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:53 AM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > > Texas won't stand for such insults Tom! > > > Texas is SO touchy. For all its size and bluster, it must really be > nervous and not at all as self-confident as it tries to make itself seem. Hey! Don't start none there won't be none! :) > > > >From this day forward every Mexican I meet will hear about what a > > wonderful > > place New Jersey is and how much more money they will make if they move > > there. > > > Except, you won't ever meet any more Mexicans, as they've all already moved > here. > Wrongo Bucko! Not only do we have millions more, we got plenty of breeding stock! You aint seen Mexicans yet xponent The Invasion Has Begun Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The DC Metro system rocks! > > Julia As someone who grew up there, I have to say, I'm shocked to hear you say it. I always hated the DC Metro system because it was: 1) Too expensive and 2) Not extensive By which I meant that it cost a lot to get anywhere, and I couldn't get to the parties in Georgetown, which is where I wanted to go :-) Plus, it stopped at midnight. I can't tell you how much I preferred NYC's and Boston's subway systems. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 10:58:52AM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: > and have somewhat more regular work than that. Do you see many Mexicans > with more regular employment than just pick-up work? Yes, the townhome associations seem to have all Mexicans working for them. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 10:55:52AM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: > but the whole thing of not being *allowed* to pump your own gas bugged us. Me too! My first time I got yelled at for trying (there were no signs telling me!) -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:54 AM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 01:05:38AM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > From this day forward every Mexican I meet will hear about what a > > wonderful place New Jersey is and how much more money they will make > > if they move there. > > Actually, there are quite a few Mexicans living and working in Jersey. > It seems most yardwork, snow shoveling, home remodeling work, etc. is > done by going to the "pick-up zone" and hiring a few Mexicans. It sounds > rather sad, but all parties involved seem to be voluntarily gaining a > benefit of some sort, so it may actually be for the best. > Joking aside, that's often how it is done here. I've seen exactly the same thing in Mississippi when I visited there. And I think its notable that it doesn't seem to affect the unemployment rate to a great degree. Pisses the rednecks off to no end. xponent Employment Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: "Jon Gabriel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:07 AM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > The main thing I notice when I travel is that the subway or rail systems in > other cities is not that they're schedules are less convenient, but that > they are typically a LOT cleaner. From DC's Metro to Portland's Light Rail, > the systems look much better. Of course, the traffic volume argument also > applies. > They are trying to implement Light Rail here in Houston. I don't like Light Rail at all. I think it is a mistake to mix rail in with auto traffic. I would prefer a monorail system instead. xponent Rides Busses At Times Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> I would prefer a monorail system instead. > Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 01:32:28PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: > I would prefer a monorail system instead. Umm, how does it go, is there a danger that the track will bend? -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
In a message dated 11/2/03 3:22:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 01:32:28PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > I would prefer a monorail system instead. > > Umm, how does it go, is there a danger that the track will bend? > "Not on your life, my Hindu friend!" Tom Beck (who is glad he isn't the only one who saw all the Simpsons possibilities in the original mention of a monorail) www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 2:20 PM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 01:32:28PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > I would prefer a monorail system instead. > > Umm, how does it go, is there a danger that the track will bend? > Whatchutalkinabout Willis? xponent They Live Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote: > --- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The DC Metro system rocks! > > > > Julia > > As someone who grew up there, I have to say, I'm > shocked to hear you say it. I always hated the DC > Metro system because it was: > 1) Too expensive and > 2) Not extensive > By which I meant that it cost a lot to get anywhere, > and I couldn't get to the parties in Georgetown, which > is where I wanted to go :-) Plus, it stopped at > midnight. I can't tell you how much I preferred NYC's > and Boston's subway systems. The buses run at all hours, which is a *lot* more than you can say for Austin. When I was last in DC, the system was *incredibly* good for getting me where I wanted to be going. (And as for having to walk to Georgetown, we were doing an awful lot of walking that day, didn't give in to the public transportation system until *after* the free evening concert at the Kennedy Center.) Last time any female member of my family was on the Boston subway after dark, someone pointed a gun at her. So I'm a little less enthusiastic about after-hours use of the Boston subway than you. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: > On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 10:55:52AM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: > > but the whole thing of not being *allowed* to pump your own gas bugged us. > > Me too! My first time I got yelled at for trying (there were no signs > telling me!) We'd once driven an extra 10 miles to find a self-serve station in another state prior to that. :) We're fanatics about doing some things for ourselves. It doesn't extend to changing oil, though. We let folks who have it all lined up for recycling the oil do that for us. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Last time any female member of my family was on the > Boston subway after > dark, someone pointed a gun at her. So I'm a little > less enthusiastic > about after-hours use of the Boston subway than you. > > Julia Wow - I'd never heard of such a thing happening. That is, though, one thing that is definitely true about the DC Metro system - it is _incredibly_ safe. DC was, for a long time the murder capital of the US. Up until a year or two ago, I believe that there had _never_ been a murder on a Metro train, and the one that did occur happened, I believe, at the hands of someone having a psychotic break - not the sort of thing that the police can prevent with any real success. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 12:32 PM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > --- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The DC Metro system rocks! > > > > Julia > > As someone who grew up there, I have to say, I'm > shocked to hear you say it. I always hated the DC > Metro system because it was: > 1) Too expensive and > 2) Not extensive > By which I meant that it cost a lot to get anywhere, > and I couldn't get to the parties in Georgetown, which > is where I wanted to go :-) Plus, it stopped at > midnight. I can't tell you how much I preferred NYC's > and Boston's subway systems. You pinko you. You know that mass transit is the second step on the road to communism. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You pinko you. You know that mass transit is the > second step on the road > to communism. :-) > > Dan M. Hey, the fact that I like it doesn't make it good public policy :-) The question of whether it is or not is open to debate. I _don't know_. Transport policy is not something I know much (anything) about, so I frankly don't have an opinion on the topic. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > but the whole thing of not being *allowed* to pump your own > gas bugged us. > > Me too! My first time I got yelled at for trying (there were no signs > telling me!) Imagine coming from New Jersey to another state. The first time I went driving in Anita's car, I had *no* idea how to pump gas. She had to do it. How embarrassing. Of course, I soon realized that there was a benefit to that... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! > U...Donuts. Is there nothing they can't do? - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:07 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > > > > If you want to spend hours commuting to and from work, > Jersey's your > > place > > then! > > > > You're acting like New Jersey is somehow uniquely bad in this > regard. The > traffic near Boston, DC, Long Island, LA, and Atlanta is at > least at bad and > probably worse. The Long Island Expressway is not nicknamed > "The World's Longest > Parking Lot" for nothing. Forbes Rating of Worst Commutes to work: Greater Los Angeles San Fran Dallas/Fort Worth Houston Washington D.C. Denver Nerd From Hell > > (On the other hand, I will admit that around here, people > pray not to have to > commute through Princeton...) > > > > Tom Beck > www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
I wrote: >Someone else said once in the same newsgroup "Of course, since >JMS is an atheist, he doesn't believe in hell, anyway." >jms' reply was "Says you. I'm FROM New Jersey" Jim replied: Now, why does everyone have to crack on New Jersey? There aren't that many areas in the world where you are always within three hours' drive of the ocean, mountains, and major metropolitan areas. Yes, we have toxic waste and obnoxious IROC drivers, but otherwise it's not too bad a place. Either that or I'm beyond help, which is not out of the realm of possibility. Sorry, I didn't mean to start a debate about the relative merits of New Jersey. I just thought jms' line was funny in the context of the religion/anti-religion tirades going back and forth. I personally have nothing against New Jersey. I was born and raised in Kansas (although I live in Missouri now), and have always heard about how boring and how desparately flat it is, which I never really got since the Kansas City area is quite hilly and interesting. Then I drove to Colorado. If most people's experience of Kansas is from driving across I-70, then I think I get it now. Reggie Bautista _ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Reggie Bautista > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 01:32 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > >> Then I drove to Colorado. If most people's experience of > Kansas is from driving across I-70, then I think I get it now. "I saw Kansas at its most scenic - at night.. during a snowstorm." -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
--- Chad Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Forbes Rating of Worst Commutes to work: > Greater Los Angeles > San Fran > Dallas/Fort Worth > Houston > Washington D.C. > Denver I saw this the other day...hard to believe that we're worse than New York or Boston, but I can vouch for Dallas being worse than Denver. Fortunately I have flexible hours, and avoid driving in rush-hours (which BTW are from ~ 6:30-9:15AM and ~4:30-6:30PM, but much longer in icy weather, such as we're having now). Debbi who rode in a T-shirt last Wed. (80oF), but the next day it barely got above freezing (32oF)! __ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
At 03:32 PM 11/3/03 -0600, Reggie Bautista wrote: I wrote: >Someone else said once in the same newsgroup "Of course, since >JMS is an atheist, he doesn't believe in hell, anyway." >jms' reply was "Says you. I'm FROM New Jersey" Jim replied: Now, why does everyone have to crack on New Jersey? There aren't that many areas in the world where you are always within three hours' drive of the ocean, mountains, and major metropolitan areas. Yes, we have toxic waste and obnoxious IROC drivers, but otherwise it's not too bad a place. Either that or I'm beyond help, which is not out of the realm of possibility. Sorry, I didn't mean to start a debate about the relative merits of New Jersey. I just thought jms' line was funny in the context of the religion/anti-religion tirades going back and forth. I personally have nothing against New Jersey. I was born and raised in Kansas (although I live in Missouri now), and have always heard about how boring and how desparately flat it is, which I never really got since the Kansas City area is quite hilly and interesting. Then I drove to Colorado. If most people's experience of Kansas is from driving across I-70, then I think I get it now. There's always I-80 across Nebraska and Wyoming¹ . . . _ ¹Which for me is shorter than I-70, though obviously YMMV, particularly if you are going to, say, Denver rather than Salt Lake . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote: > --- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Last time any female member of my family was on the > > Boston subway after > > dark, someone pointed a gun at her. So I'm a little > > less enthusiastic > > about after-hours use of the Boston subway than you. > > > > Julia > > Wow - I'd never heard of such a thing happening. That > is, though, one thing that is definitely true about > the DC Metro system - it is _incredibly_ safe. DC > was, for a long time the murder capital of the US. Up > until a year or two ago, I believe that there had > _never_ been a murder on a Metro train, and the one > that did occur happened, I believe, at the hands of > someone having a psychotic break - not the sort of > thing that the police can prevent with any real success. This was when I was about 6 or 7 years old. My mother used to go to Quincy a few times a year by herself in the evening -- she'd have my father pick up dinner for himself and us kids, and she'd leave as soon as he got home from work. She'd take a bus to Harvard Square (the Red Line didn't go any farther towards Arlington than that at that time, the nice Alewife (sp?) station with its parking garage was years in the future), take the Red Line to the other end in Quincy, and do some shopping there without children in tow. The last time she did that, on the way back a man sat down next to her, pulled out a gun, played with it, and pointed it at her at one point between the Central stop and Harvard. When she got to Harvard, she got off, planning to find a police officer if he followed her. He went off in the other direction. She came home on the bus and never took the subway at night by herself again. The only times I've been on the subway at night were times when I was meeting someone at South Station, and I'd be with some man who'd driven me from New Hampshire and gone with me to pick up whoever it was. The person most likely to volunteer for that duty was a reasonably large man who had a leather jacket, so I felt reasonably safe in his company. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:42 AM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > The only times I've been on the subway at night were times when I was > meeting someone at South Station, and I'd be with some man who'd driven me > from New Hampshire and gone with me to pick up whoever it was. The person > most likely to volunteer for that duty was a reasonably large man who had > a leather jacket, so I felt reasonably safe in his company. :) Leather jackets make the wearer safe. Everyone around the leather clad "one" gets shot into smithereeens. You *have* seen The Matrix haven't you? xponent Defensive Strategy Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:42 AM > Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > > > > The only times I've been on the subway at night were times when I was > > meeting someone at South Station, and I'd be with some man who'd driven me > > from New Hampshire and gone with me to pick up whoever it was. The person > > most likely to volunteer for that duty was a reasonably large man who had > > a leather jacket, so I felt reasonably safe in his company. :) > > > Leather jackets make the wearer safe. > Everyone around the leather clad "one" gets shot into smithereeens. > > You *have* seen The Matrix haven't you? Yup. And *I* have a leather jacket now. Doesn't fit quite right, but what do you expect for $30 at a consignment store? :) It's not as cool as any of the ones in The Matrix, though Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
- Original Message - From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > > > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:42 AM > > Subject: Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question) > > > > > > > The only times I've been on the subway at night were times when I was > > > meeting someone at South Station, and I'd be with some man who'd driven me > > > from New Hampshire and gone with me to pick up whoever it was. The person > > > most likely to volunteer for that duty was a reasonably large man who had > > > a leather jacket, so I felt reasonably safe in his company. :) > > > > > > Leather jackets make the wearer safe. > > Everyone around the leather clad "one" gets shot into smithereeens. > > > > You *have* seen The Matrix haven't you? > > Yup. And *I* have a leather jacket now. Doesn't fit quite right, but > what do you expect for $30 at a consignment store? :) > > It's not as cool as any of the ones in The Matrix, though > I've noticed that one cannot buy jackets that cool. Really cool jackets must be just another fiction. xponent Cool Skins Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
Chad Cooper wrote: > > Forbes Rating of Worst Commutes to work: > Greater Los Angeles > San Fran > Dallas/Fort Worth > Houston > Washington D.C. > Denver > > Nerd From Hell > We're number one! We're number one! We'renumberone! Yay! I've known people who leave home (in San Bernardino, where homes are mostly affordable) at 5 a.m. to commute 3 hours each way to work, and that's not even going all the way to downtown L.A. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
