subject:"CakePlus \- On the top of CakePHP"


On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Community:
  1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)

I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have
commit privileges to the repository?

-- 
Chris Hartjes
Internet Loudmouth
Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
@TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread AD7six




On May 3, 7:45 pm, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On May 3, 8:59 pm, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your no authority clause is, it
  doesn't fly in the real world.  Even if developers aren't morons,
  that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know
  what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours.

  And you plan to handle this by branching?  What does that leave you
  with?  Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into
  a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase
  and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to
  happen on smaller projects.

  If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so
  far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory.

I think, we can't conclude the future at this point of time; you
 may be right or wrong with your opinion on the openness of the
 project. But, I'm quite positive about the power of openness.

Good luck with your efforts. If you
  avoid making changes to the cake core*
  make use of overriding
  make use of externals/vendor branching

You would have a fighting chance (IMHO) of succeeding and not having a
project that (might) look ok at the outset and quick stagnate.

Cheers,

AD
*By which I mean
3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS -
  don't remove things just for the sake of it
6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a
better solution
  especially in the absence of an alternative and when the things you
want to replace are configurable
7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for
index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add
actions
  or when you can just change your default routes or use mapResources
or otherwise with simple bootstrap code.
10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better)
 or when just by defining DISABLE_DEFAULT_ERROR_HANDLING in your
webroot index disables what you want to remove
13. Remove plugins. Replace with new mods architecture
  or when the change suggested potentially stems from a
misunderstanding

n. I think, modifying core is necessary evil. To bend it for the UIMS,
it's extremely necessary
  any changes *at all* planned for core classes that could be
overridden ( controller/model/view/helper/data source/etc.) imply
change for the sake of change - and that's gonna hurt if you want to
keep up to date.
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On May 5, 6:52 pm, AD7six [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On May 3, 7:45 pm, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On May 3, 8:59 pm, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your no authority clause is, it
   doesn't fly in the real world.  Even if developers aren't morons,
   that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know
   what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours.

   And you plan to handle this by branching?  What does that leave you
   with?  Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into
   a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase
   and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to
   happen on smaller projects.

   If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so
   far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory.

 I think, we can't conclude the future at this point of time; you
  may be right or wrong with your opinion on the openness of the
  project. But, I'm quite positive about the power of openness.

 Good luck with your efforts. If you
   avoid making changes to the cake core*
   make use of overriding
   make use of externals/vendor branching

 You would have a fighting chance (IMHO) of succeeding and not having a
 project that (might) look ok at the outset and quick stagnate.
 snip wonderful suggestions

 Thanks for the wonderful suggestions for which I'm waiting for,
before preparing a draft:-) Many thanks again.

--
  ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On May 5, 6:07 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Community:
   1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)

 I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have
 commit privileges to the repository?

  Yes, In developers we trust

--
  ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On May 4, 8:17 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   snip
 First off, it is a fork. As a matter of voting, I am against and
 thefore I shall not support it. I know I am no one, but it is a
 thought anyway.

 There is a particular clause I deemed to be disattached of reality.
 CakePHP, shall support PHP 6 and abandon PHP 4 as it lifespan passes
 thru time. For instance, if you propose that your Cake+ drops supports
 for PHP 4 now, it would break v4 users, what you do then? Use PHP
 Downgrade, you add as a third-party component on what CakePHP has
 bundled in its core, quite well developed. Perhaps you could adventure
 in developing a new Cake-like framework, but as far as I can on your
 feature list I would say it is going on BadwRong ways.

 I respect everyone's view. But, it's too early to judge if it's
wrong or not. While I'm positive, you're against to it. Let's see what
the future decides.

--
  ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On May 4, 12:46 pm, keymaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Way too ambitious to make all these changes and still keep up with
 evolving cake releases, IMHO.

 You're better off leaving the core as is, and just managing your value-
 added stuff. That alone is a handful, but you'd get 80% of the benefit
 with much less hassle.

 Really, the best thing would be to persuade the cake team to add some
 of the proven stuff into the core (eg. bindable, sluggable, asset
 helper, etc). That would obviate the need for your fork.

I understand that many people are for not touching core. Andy has
provided his very valuable suggestions for how to do that; possibly
may start from that. Hope, all are happy now:-)

--
  ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  On May 5, 6:07 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
  

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Community:
 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
  
   I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have
   commit privileges to the repository?

   Yes, In developers we trust


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Maybe I shouldn't laugh.

Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone
who has no idea how any successful open source project works.  If you
can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP
is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access
to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more
seriously.

If that makes me a fascist, so be it.  I pity in advance the person
responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts
in your project.

-- 
Chris Hartjes
Internet Loudmouth
Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
@TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread Dardo Sordi Bogado


The linux kernel.

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
On May 5, 6:07 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah

  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Community:
   1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)

 I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have
 commit privileges to the repository?
  
 Yes, In developers we trust
  

  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

  Maybe I shouldn't laugh.

  Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone
  who has no idea how any successful open source project works.  If you
  can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP
  is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access
  to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more
  seriously.

  If that makes me a fascist, so be it.  I pity in advance the person
  responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts
  in your project.


  --
  Chris Hartjes
  Internet Loudmouth
  Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
  @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

  


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread John David Anderson



On May 5, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado wrote:


 The linux kernel.

Sweet. I've been looking for a place to backup my funny videos  
collection. Imagine being able to have them at my fingertips on *any*  
linux machine I sit down to!!

Thanks for the tip.

-- John



 On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 wrote:

 On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On May 5, 6:07 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Community:
 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)

 I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have
 commit privileges to the repository?

  Yes, In developers we trust


 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

 Maybe I shouldn't laugh.

 Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone
 who has no idea how any successful open source project works.  If you
 can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP
 is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access
 to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more
 seriously.

 If that makes me a fascist, so be it.  I pity in advance the person
 responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts
 in your project.


 --
 Chris Hartjes
 Internet Loudmouth
 Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
 @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard




 


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  The linux kernel.

Um, no.

In the end there is someone who decides what goes into the main linux
trunk or whatever you feel like calling it.  Therefore, there is no
in developers we trust mechanism in place for commits.  They
restrict access to a few people.   Yes, you can grab a copy but you
CANNOT SIMPLY ADD YOUR CHANGES WHEREVER YOU WANT and get them
accepted.

http://www.wlug.org.nz/KernelDevelopmentWithGit

You actually think I would say what I said without actually looking into it?

-- 
Chris Hartjes
Internet Loudmouth
Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
@TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread Gary C.

LOL!

Wasn't the source code for Windows leaked a while back?  You mean I can add
Windows in there too? It'd be running *in* the Linux Core, so that should
resolve all its stability issues :P

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:58 AM, John David Anderson 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On May 5, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado wrote:

 
  The linux kernel.

 Sweet. I've been looking for a place to backup my funny videos
 collection. Imagine being able to have them at my fingertips on *any*
 linux machine I sit down to!!

 Thanks for the tip.

 -- John



  On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
 
  On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On May 5, 6:07 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Community:
  1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
 
  I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have
  commit privileges to the repository?
 
   Yes, In developers we trust
 
 
  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
 
  Maybe I shouldn't laugh.
 
  Okay, I will just ignore what you are saying as the output of someone
  who has no idea how any successful open source project works.  If you
  can point out ONE successful large open source project (yes, CakePHP
  is a large open source project) that allows unfettered commit access
  to their repository then maybe I would take you a little more
  seriously.
 
  If that makes me a fascist, so be it.  I pity in advance the person
  responsible for integrating submissions and resolving code conflicts
  in your project.
 
 
  --
  Chris Hartjes
  Internet Loudmouth
  Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
  @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard
 
 
 
 
  


 


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread John David Anderson



On May 5, 2008, at 10:08 AM, Dardo Sordi Bogado wrote:


 Chris,

 As you have a copy of full history, you can commit. You can't push to
 Linus repository, as he didn't trust you. But he pulls directly from
 the ones he trust, and examine the changes he thinks are worth
 integrating. And there isn't a central repository from where you get
 the source, most people use Linus, because they trust his work, but
 you can use Alan Cox or Andrew Morton repos, or anyone you trust. See,
 you still thinking in a centralized way.

If you think of patches in Trac as other pseudo repositories, this is  
exactly how CakePHP works right now.

-- John

 And John, you are looking for the MOB branch ;) Browse
 http://repo.or.cz and find for a poject using it, then push your
 videos there.

/me commits his Terry Tate vids

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread Dardo Sordi Bogado


  If you think of patches in Trac as other pseudo repositories, this is
  exactly how CakePHP works right now.

I know, just is more comfortable having that integrated in the SCM and
use a full blown repo.

   And John, you are looking for the MOB branch ;) Browse
   http://repo.or.cz and find for a poject using it, then push your
   videos there.

  /me commits his Terry Tate vids

LOL.



  


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Dardo Sordi Bogado
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Chris,

  As you have a copy of full history, you can commit. You can't push to
  Linus repository, as he didn't trust you. But he pulls directly from
  the ones he trust, and examine the changes he thinks are worth
  integrating. And there isn't a central repository from where you get
  the source, most people use Linus, because they trust his work, but
  you can use Alan Cox or Andrew Morton repos, or anyone you trust. See,
  you still thinking in a centralized way.

I understand totally what you are saying, believe me.  But you just
hit on the #1 issue I have that is simply being ignored:  Linus won't
let you push to his repository.  What happened to in developers we
trust?  Trust has to be both ways.  If the vast majority of people
trust Linus, and Linus doesn't let just anyone push to his repo, then
how is that any different than restricting access to a centralized
repository?  Linus created git because he hates Subversion and CVS,
not because of some sort of noble quest to give commit access to the
masses.  Please don't confuse the two.

Ok, let me push this out further.  Let's say we are using git for
CakePHP.  PHPNut, Nate and gwoo all have repos that you can pull from,
but each one is slightly different.  Which one will people want to use
as the official source for CakePHP?  Despite what you think, some
people want to know that there is an official source because,
shockingly, they don't want to go through the dance of picking
something from repo 1, something else from repo 2 and then something
else from repo 3.

I could argue about this all day, but I've had enough.  Dardo, we are
arguing about semantics so we must agree to disagree.

CakePlus is an attempt to fork CakePHP, nothing more.

-- 
Chris Hartjes
Internet Loudmouth
Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
@TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread Dardo Sordi Bogado


  I could argue about this all day, but I've had enough.  Dardo, we are
  arguing about semantics so we must agree to disagree.

I agree, I wasn't saying that git or it's model fits CakePHP or
everyone. I said that it could help in CakePlus.

  CakePlus is an attempt to fork CakePHP, nothing more.

As was outlined in the first post, yes.

I think I've made my stand clear: I don't agree to the idea of
modifying the core, but I like the idea of making something that I can
use on top of CakePHP, let's say:

1. Checkout the latest SVN of cake (just the core, not the appdir).
2. Clone CakePlus as the appdir.
3. Start hacking.

  --


 Chris Hartjes
  Internet Loudmouth
  Motto for 2008: Moving from herding elephants to handling snakes...
  @TheKeyBoard: http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard

  


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread Sliv


Personally I'd prefer to see all of this energy go into helping to
close tickets by writing tests, patches, documentation and offering
time/resources to join initiatives that need the help (i.e.
cookbook).  I just find that helping is superior to forking for
everyone in the community, unless you've tried to help and run into a
wall of some sort.

To use a personal example, I had thought of trying to fork a docs
initiative to concentrate on usage examples (less verbose than the
cookbook, more verbose than the API).  That may or may not be a good
idea, but instead, at least for now, I've been working on fixing a
checkout of the bakery, helping with Trac cleanup and (up until
recently) helping manage this google group.

I figure fixing existing issues by helping is better than starting
something else and leaving the community starving for assistance...

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread b logica


That's a great idea, except that--in this instance--the motivation for
this CakePlus fork seems more about fixing parts of Cake which the
OP disagrees with rather than fixing outstanding bugs. Unless the core
devs were to agree to these changes being made they aren't going to be
in Trac for anyone to deal with.

I think some of them (though not all) would be very worthwhile, btw.

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Sliv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Personally I'd prefer to see all of this energy go into helping to
  close tickets by writing tests, patches, documentation and offering
  time/resources to join initiatives that need the help (i.e.
  cookbook).  I just find that helping is superior to forking for
  everyone in the community, unless you've tried to help and run into a
  wall of some sort.

  To use a personal example, I had thought of trying to fork a docs
  initiative to concentrate on usage examples (less verbose than the
  cookbook, more verbose than the API).  That may or may not be a good
  idea, but instead, at least for now, I've been working on fixing a
  checkout of the bakery, helping with Trac cleanup and (up until
  recently) helping manage this google group.

  I figure fixing existing issues by helping is better than starting
  something else and leaving the community starving for assistance...



  


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-05 Thread Dr. Tarique Sani

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:32 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   On May 5, 6:07 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
   
 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Community:
  1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
   
I'm wondering if by this you mean that anyone who wants can have
commit privileges to the repository?
 
Yes, In developers we trust
 

 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.


Pt he isn't a project manager yet. Ah! the sweet days of innocence

@Rajesh - If you *really* build all that on top of Cake core your additions
will be very popular. Otherwise I guess you will be better off building most
stuff on top of code taken on X date and never look back - if you are hoping
to keep in sync with the Cake trunk it is not going to happen, IME things
will get painful very fast.

This also means that you are essentially forking Cake in which case it might
be helpful to look around for other (un-announced?) forks of CakePHP


Tarique

-- 
=
Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org
PHP for E-Biz: http://sanisoft.com
=

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-04 Thread keymaster


Way too ambitious to make all these changes and still keep up with
evolving cake releases, IMHO.

You're better off leaving the core as is, and just managing your value-
added stuff. That alone is a handful, but you'd get 80% of the benefit
with much less hassle.

Really, the best thing would be to persuade the cake team to add some
of the proven stuff into the core (eg. bindable, sluggable, asset
helper, etc). That would obviate the need for your fork.

Any remote chance of that happening, Nate?
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-04 Thread NOSLOW


Where's the nate that I was expecting to have teared him a new one
already? ;)

Seriously, though, I have to agree with nate and Tarique. Keeping the
project focussed seems to be key. I have all the confidence in the
world that the project will evolve in the right direction on it's own.
Yes, I would like to see some of these other features rolled into the
core, but I think it's best for the core developers who are most
intimate with the inner workings of Cake to decide what should and
should not make it in there. I don't have much experience with other
open source projects to draw comparison too, but this one seems to be
doing just fine without too many cooks.
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-04 Thread Dérico Filho




On May 3, 12:31 pm, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a
 fork.  Because I don't see how this would sit on top of Cake so much
 as be a replacement.  How would you plan to maintain all these
 changes against each successive Cake release?

 On May 3, 11:09 am, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime
  agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d...
  But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many
  people here.

  So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a
  complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking
  of hosting in Google Code or SF.net.

  Basic idea for the toolkit:
  1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation
  helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks  plugs from  Daniel
  Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/
  ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias
  2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic
  controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors
  3. Bundle a default users mod
  4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js)
  5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date
  picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper)
  6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5
  friendly)
  7. Default themed views
  8. Distinguish between vendors and libs
  9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V  C
  10. Admin interface.
  11. Bundle ACL/Auth
  12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier

  Changes to core:
  1. Remove compatibility and hacks 
  (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help...
  )
  2. Remove regexp wherever possible 
  (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat...
  )
  3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build
  forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc
  4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n 
  behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr...
  5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based.
  6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a
  better solution
  7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for
  index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add
  actions
  8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors
  9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs
  10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better)
  11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading 
  (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan 
  Knowles)
  12. Pluggable caching  template systems
  13. Remove plugins. Replace with new mods architecture (mods
  contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be
  installed through admin interface (Say, a gallary mod could be
  plugged easily)

  Community:
  1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
  2. No IRC
  3. All discussions through Google groups
  4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki
  5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project
  6. No authority. Tagline: Developers are no morons.

     Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

  --
    ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
  Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com    Blog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/

First off, it is a fork. As a matter of voting, I am against and
thefore I shall not support it. I know I am no one, but it is a
thought anyway.

There is a particular clause I deemed to be disattached of reality.
CakePHP, shall support PHP 6 and abandon PHP 4 as it lifespan passes
thru time. For instance, if you propose that your Cake+ drops supports
for PHP 4 now, it would break v4 users, what you do then? Use PHP
Downgrade, you add as a third-party component on what CakePHP has
bundled in its core, quite well developed. Perhaps you could adventure
in developing a new Cake-like framework, but as far as I can on your
feature list I would say it is going on BadwRong ways.
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-04 Thread mbavio


The label of On top of CakePHP makes me laugh. Lol, you are forking
CakePHP if you are going to change 75% of the core. Also, your idea of
beatiful and ideal openess never works in real life, just as Nate said
before. Git is good, and maybe it can help you with such crazy idea,
but again, what are you expecting? That with every discussion CakePlus
splits in two parts? Try to explain that to the newbies:

Look, you have 500 slightly different versions of CakePlus, take a
look to every single one of them and then choose what version you like
most. But hurry up, because tomorrow we are going to have 750
versions.

Sounds crazy to me, every good proyect needs heads and core work.

Cheers,
mbavio

On May 4, 12:17 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On May 3, 12:31 pm, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



  So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a
  fork.  Because I don't see how this would sit on top of Cake so much
  as be a replacement.  How would you plan to maintain all these
  changes against each successive Cake release?

  On May 3, 11:09 am, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime
   agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d...
   But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many
   people here.

   So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a
   complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking
   of hosting in Google Code or SF.net.

   Basic idea for the toolkit:
   1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation
   helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks  plugs from  Daniel
   Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson 
   (http://www.ad7six.com/
   ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias
   2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic
   controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors
   3. Bundle a default users mod
   4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js)
   5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date
   picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper)
   6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5
   friendly)
   7. Default themed views
   8. Distinguish between vendors and libs
   9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V  C
   10. Admin interface.
   11. Bundle ACL/Auth
   12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier

   Changes to core:
   1. Remove compatibility and hacks 
   (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help...
   )
   2. Remove regexp wherever possible 
   (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat...
   )
   3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build
   forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc
   4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n 
   behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr...
   5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based.
   6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a
   better solution
   7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for
   index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add
   actions
   8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors
   9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs
   10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better)
   11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading 
   (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan 
   Knowles)
   12. Pluggable caching  template systems
   13. Remove plugins. Replace with new mods architecture (mods
   contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be
   installed through admin interface (Say, a gallary mod could be
   plugged easily)

   Community:
   1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
   2. No IRC
   3. All discussions through Google groups
   4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki
   5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project
   6. No authority. Tagline: Developers are no morons.

  Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

   --
 ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
   Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/

 First off, it is a fork. As a matter of voting, I am against and
 thefore I shall not support it. I know I am no one, but it is a
 thought anyway.

 There is a particular clause I deemed to be disattached of reality.
 CakePHP, shall support PHP 6 and abandon PHP 4 as it lifespan passes
 thru time. For instance, if you propose that your Cake+ drops supports
 for PHP 4 now, it would break v4 users, what you do then? Use PHP
 Downgrade, you add as a third-party component on what CakePHP has
 bundled in its core, quite well developed. Perhaps you could

CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime
ago
http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d9df8b/300bec44c5902198
But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many
people here.

So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a
complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking
of hosting in Google Code or SF.net.

Basic idea for the toolkit:
1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation
helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks plugs from Daniel
Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson ( http://www.ad7six.com/
), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias
2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic
controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors
3. Bundle a default users mod
4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js)
5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date
picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper)
6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5
friendly)
7. Default themed views
8. Distinguish between vendors and libs
9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V C
10. Admin interface.
11. Bundle ACL/Auth
12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier

Changes to core:
1. Remove compatibility and hacks (e.g.,
https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/helpers/javascript.php#L465
)
2. Remove regexp wherever possible (e.g.,
https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/datasources/dbo_source.php#L305
)
3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build
forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc
4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n behavior
http://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-translation-part-2/
5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based.
6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a
better solution
7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for
index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add
actions
8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors
9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs
10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better)
11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading (http://
www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles)
12. Pluggable caching template systems
13. Remove plugins. Replace with new mods architecture (mods
contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be
installed through admin interface (Say, a gallary mod could be
plugged easily)

Community:
1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
2. No IRC
3. All discussions through Google groups
4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki
5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project
6. No authority. Tagline: Developers are no morons.

Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

--
?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
CakePHP group.
To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-03 Thread nate


So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a
fork.  Because I don't see how this would sit on top of Cake so much
as be a replacement.  How would you plan to maintain all these
changes against each successive Cake release?

On May 3, 11:09 am, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime
 agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d...
 But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many
 people here.

 So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a
 complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking
 of hosting in Google Code or SF.net.

 Basic idea for the toolkit:
 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation
 helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks  plugs from  Daniel
 Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/
 ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias
 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic
 controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors
 3. Bundle a default users mod
 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js)
 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date
 picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper)
 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5
 friendly)
 7. Default themed views
 8. Distinguish between vendors and libs
 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V  C
 10. Admin interface.
 11. Bundle ACL/Auth
 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier

 Changes to core:
 1. Remove compatibility and hacks 
 (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help...
 )
 2. Remove regexp wherever possible 
 (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat...
 )
 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build
 forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc
 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n 
 behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr...
 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based.
 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a
 better solution
 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for
 index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add
 actions
 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors
 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs
 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better)
 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading 
 (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles)
 12. Pluggable caching  template systems
 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new mods architecture (mods
 contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be
 installed through admin interface (Say, a gallary mod could be
 plugged easily)

 Community:
 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
 2. No IRC
 3. All discussions through Google groups
 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki
 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project
 6. No authority. Tagline: Developers are no morons.

    Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

 --
   ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
 Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com    Blog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
CakePHP group.
To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-03 Thread nate


Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your no authority clause is, it
doesn't fly in the real world.  Even if developers aren't morons,
that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know
what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours.

And you plan to handle this by branching?  What does that leave you
with?  Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into
a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase
and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to
happen on smaller projects.

If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so
far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory.

On May 3, 11:09 am, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime
 agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d...
 But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many
 people here.

 So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a
 complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking
 of hosting in Google Code or SF.net.

 Basic idea for the toolkit:
 1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation
 helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks  plugs from  Daniel
 Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/
 ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias
 2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic
 controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors
 3. Bundle a default users mod
 4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js)
 5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date
 picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper)
 6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5
 friendly)
 7. Default themed views
 8. Distinguish between vendors and libs
 9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V  C
 10. Admin interface.
 11. Bundle ACL/Auth
 12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier

 Changes to core:
 1. Remove compatibility and hacks 
 (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help...
 )
 2. Remove regexp wherever possible 
 (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat...
 )
 3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build
 forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc
 4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n 
 behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr...
 5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based.
 6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a
 better solution
 7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for
 index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add
 actions
 8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors
 9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs
 10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better)
 11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading 
 (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles)
 12. Pluggable caching  template systems
 13. Remove plugins. Replace with new mods architecture (mods
 contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be
 installed through admin interface (Say, a gallary mod could be
 plugged easily)

 Community:
 1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
 2. No IRC
 3. All discussions through Google groups
 4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki
 5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project
 6. No authority. Tagline: Developers are no morons.

    Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

 --
   ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
 Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com    Blog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
CakePHP group.
To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-03 Thread Dardo Sordi Bogado


  So it sounds like what you're talking about is really more like a
  fork.  Because I don't see how this would sit on top of Cake so much
  as be a replacement.  How would you plan to maintain all these
  changes against each successive Cake release?

Yes, It sounds like a fork. Anyway, maintaining a set of changes to
the core on top of the svn is easily done with git and quilt (as SCM
goes) but involves too much work from programmers.

I've tried to make a thing on top of CakePHP many times, never got
time to make it usable. But I'll like to contribute to the effort,
just don't like the idea of touching the core. There are many things
you can do providing classes that lay inside the app dir taking
precendence from the core ones. I think is better to work in a higher
layer on top of CakePHP instead of modifying the core, the core teams
is doing an excellent work.

- Dardo Sordi.

  On May 3, 11:09 am, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I have been thinking this for a while and also posted this sometime
   agohttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_frm/thread/949555be03d...


  But, I understand Cake should be a tiny and tight framework for many
   people here.
  
   So, I envision something new on the top of CakePHP--CakePlus, a
   complete toolkit to build contemporary UIMS based sites. And, thinking
   of hosting in Google Code or SF.net.
  
   Basic idea for the toolkit:
   1. Bundle MiBake template, Asset helper, Bindable behavior, Validation
   helper, Sluggable behavior, and other nice hacks  plugs from  Daniel
   Hofstetter (http://cakebaker.42dh.com), Andy Dawson (http://www.ad7six.com/
   ), Matt (http://www.pseudocoder.com/), Mariano Iglesias
   2. Bundle hacks from the post of grigri (especially the generic
   controller), baz, franky, and other GG contributors
   3. Bundle a default users mod
   4. Bundle jQuery, but use event delegations (check BehaviorS.js)
   5. 100% degradable Ajax (autocomplete, inline-editing, popup, date
   picker, client side validation--see Matt's Validation helper)
   6. Bundle Eric Meyer's reset.css. New CSS framework (liquid, IE 5
   friendly)
   7. Default themed views
   8. Distinguish between vendors and libs
   9. Unified pattern for sharing codes betweens M, V  C
   10. Admin interface.
   11. Bundle ACL/Auth
   12. All PHP codes to be beautified with PHP_Beautifier
  
   Changes to core:
   1. Remove compatibility and hacks 
 (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/view/help...
   )
   2. Remove regexp wherever possible 
 (e.g.,https://trac.cakephp.org/browser/branches/1.2.x.x/cake/libs/model/dat...

  )
   3. Remove scaffolding. Replace with UIMS: Let the users to build
   forms, define user level-based validation rules, etc
   4. Remove Translate Behavior. Replace with i18n 
 behaviorhttp://www.palivoda.eu/2008/04/i18n-in-cakephp-12-database-content-tr...


  5. Remove gettext based i18n. Replace with DB based.
   6. Remove Session, Cookie, XML, Configure wrappers. Todo: find a
   better solution
   7. Change dispatcher to make the default URL scheme to /foos for
   index, /foo/id for view, /foo/edit/id for edit, /foo/add for add
   actions
   8. Remove Felix's Set, Http Socket stuffs. Or move them to vendors
   9. Remove or change ACL/Auth and Caching stuffs
   10. Remove debugger. Or move to vendor (xdebug seems better)
   11. PHP 5. Other version supports by downgrading 
 (http://www.akbkhome.com/svn/akpear/PHP_DownGrade/DownGrade.php, Alan Knowles)
   12. Pluggable caching  template systems
   13. Remove plugins. Replace with new mods architecture (mods
   contributed through wiki or svn for quick improvements) which could be
   installed through admin interface (Say, a gallary mod could be
   plugged easily)
  
   Community:
   1. 100% open (svn, wiki, Google groups)
   2. No IRC
   3. All discussions through Google groups
   4. All docs and architecture drafts through Wiki
   5. On conflict of interests/architecture opinions, branch the project
   6. No authority. Tagline: Developers are no morons.
  
  Comments and suggestions are always welcome.
  
   --
 ?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?
   Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog:http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
  


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-03 Thread Dr. Tarique Sani

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so
 far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory.


Nate I am sure all the devs have better things to do than write long
explanations  of the obvious ;)

Cheers
Tarique

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-03 Thread nate


Well, clearly some things aren't obvious to everybody. ;-)

On May 3, 12:09 pm, Dr. Tarique Sani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so
  far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory.

 Nate I am sure all the devs have better things to do than write long
 explanations  of the obvious ;)

 Cheers
 Tarique

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On May 3, 8:59 pm, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Also, for as quaintly egalitarian as your no authority clause is, it
 doesn't fly in the real world.  Even if developers aren't morons,
 that doesn't mean that you won't get n00bs who only think they know
 what they're doing, or people who's opinions differ from yours.

 And you plan to handle this by branching?  What does that leave you
 with?  Subtilely different versions of the same code, which fall into
 a state of atrophy over time as they diverge from the core codebase
 and from each other, and as developers lose interest, which tends to
 happen on smaller projects.

 If you really think you can do this, hey, more power to you, but so
 far this plan doesn't even sound good in theory.

   I think, we can't conclude the future at this point of time; you
may be right or wrong with your opinion on the openness of the
project. But, I'm quite positive about the power of openness.

   Fascists believe in authority as they want to rule over others,
which may not happen here because of the openness. Also, newbies are
great contributors (for instance, I have removed bunch of spams form
Rails wiki when I was learning Rails). Conflicts are necessary evil
(if everyone believes in a same programming language and framework,
what is the need for others) and may occur only when there is no
communication.

   People may many times want credit--which they can do through Wiki
if they want. Let's see what happens. But, I'm extremely positive.

--
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Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP


On May 3, 9:04 pm, Dardo Sordi Bogado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  snip
 Yes, It sounds like a fork. Anyway, maintaining a set of changes to
 the core on top of the svn is easily done with git and quilt (as SCM
 goes) but involves too much work from programmers.

 I've tried to make a thing on top of CakePHP many times, never got
 time to make it usable. But I'll like to contribute to the effort,
 just don't like the idea of touching the core. There are many things
 you can do providing classes that lay inside the app dir taking
 precendence from the core ones. I think is better to work in a higher
 layer on top of CakePHP instead of modifying the core, the core teams
 is doing an excellent work.

I think, modifying core is necessary evil. To bend it for the
UIMS, it's extremely necessary. Another change that seems extremely
necessary is component vs model namespace confusion (You don't know
what is foo in $this-foo: if model or component). I'll try to prepare
a draft with changes and if others agree, I'll proceed. But, IMHO,
they looks necessary. May also take some ideas from orchid and fase
frameworks. And, thanks for your comments and ideas.

--
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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-03 Thread Dardo Sordi Bogado


 I think, modifying core is necessary evil. To bend it for the
  UIMS, it's extremely necessary.

I need to do my research in the area before arguing.

  Another change that seems extremely
  necessary is component vs model namespace confusion (You don't know
  what is foo in $this-foo: if model or component).

I can live with that confusion ;)

  I'll try to prepare
  a draft with changes and if others agree, I'll proceed. But, IMHO,
  they looks necessary. May also take some ideas from orchid and fase
  frameworks. And, thanks for your comments and ideas.

Looking forward to see it, as I said before it's an area of interest for me.

About modifying the core, I still don't feel comfortable with that (
and I've already done it for a couple of my projects ), the thing that
worries me the most is the dupplicattion of effort. I think many
things can be done with conventions, say naming things in determinated
way or inheriting from some base class, ie use CRUDSController for
base instead of AppController.

Also I agree about your idea of openness, there are lots of successful
open projects, and keeping that in mind is that I suggest you have a
look at git ( http://git.or.cz/ ), it's a distributed SCM, where every
one has the full history of the project so no repository is more
important than the other and it encoourages truly parallel
development.

That said, good lock!

- Dardo Sordi.

  --
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  Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!comBlog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
  


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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP

2008-05-03 Thread Dardo Sordi Bogado


  That said, good lock!

That should be good luck!, ouch!

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Re: CakePlus - On the top of CakePHP