[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/3/2023 7:58 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: 30 years ago the World Wide Web came into public existence. It has enabled cctalk to flourish. What did the World Wide Web have to do with mailing lists flourishing? We had text based discussions long before that in the form of Usenet and Mailing lists. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I am with Murray on this one. Maybe because of the WWW and not via Gopher nor BBS led some of us to discover cctalk. Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On May 3, 2023, at 5:09 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > >> On 5/3/2023 7:58 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >> 30 years ago the World Wide Web came into public existence. It has enabled >> cctalk to flourish. >> > > What did the World Wide Web have to do with mailing lists flourishing? We > had text based > > discussions long before that in the form of Usenet and Mailing lists. > > > bill > >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Don't forget fidonet (a network of bulletin board systems). On 5/3/2023 7:09 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/3/2023 7:58 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: 30 years ago the World Wide Web came into public existence. It has enabled cctalk to flourish. What did the World Wide Web have to do with mailing lists flourishing? We had text based discussions long before that in the form of Usenet and Mailing lists. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Wed, 3 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: Don't forget fidonet (a network of bulletin board systems). FidoNet is still a thing too. I'm the NC of Net 138. (which sadly, is now just myself and a couple of other nodes.) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I closed down my BBS nearly 30 years ago. I ran Bit Wiz Opus (115/689) for a long time. I've forgotten what it was called in FidoNet but my system was the gateway for net 115 to the back bone for several years. At a telephone cost of over $100/month. I shut it down sometime in the early 90's. It ran on a 10MHz 286. It's nice to hear that Fidonet still exists though with direct email, blogs, forums, etc. I'm quite surprised. But then, I play with 50 year old PDP-8 computers so who am I wonder why people keep old technology running😁. Mike On 5/4/2023 7:59 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 3 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: Don't forget fidonet (a network of bulletin board systems). FidoNet is still a thing too. I'm the NC of Net 138. (which sadly, is now just myself and a couple of other nodes.) g.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 04/05/2023 14:59, geneb via cctalk wrote: FidoNet is still a thing too. So is USENET. Julf
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
FidoNet is still a thing too. So is USENET. Julf And bigger than ever (storage size wise.) - Ethan -- : Ethan O'Toole
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Thu, 4 May 2023, Mike Katz wrote: I closed down my BBS nearly 30 years ago. I ran Bit Wiz Opus (115/689) for a long time. I've forgotten what it was called in FidoNet but my system was the gateway for net 115 to the back bone for several years. At a telephone cost of over $100/month. I shut it down sometime in the early 90's. It ran on a 10MHz 286. It's nice to hear that Fidonet still exists though with direct email, blogs, forums, etc. I'm quite surprised. But then, I play with 50 year old PDP-8 computers so who am I wonder why people keep old technology running?. While there are still some nodes running on POTS, it's mostly over IP these days. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Thu, May 4, 2023, 6:59 AM geneb via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 3 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > > Don't forget fidonet (a network of bulletin board systems). > > > FidoNet is still a thing too. I'm the NC of Net 138. (which sadly, is now > just myself and a couple of other nodes.) > Sadly, the node lists are super out of date... Warner g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/4/2023 10:35 AM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: On 04/05/2023 14:59, geneb via cctalk wrote: FidoNet is still a thing too. So is USENET. Julf I was going to jump in and say this but you beat me to it. I am involved in stuff on USENET all the time. Many groups have been destroyed and are pretty much useless but many of them are still going strong. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Running over POTS has it's appeal from a historical standpoint but from a speed standpoint IP is orders of magnitude faster. I think the term I was looking for is Fidonet Echomail Co-ordinator. And net 115 was the Chicago area. On 5/4/2023 10:30 AM, geneb wrote: On Thu, 4 May 2023, Mike Katz wrote: I closed down my BBS nearly 30 years ago. I ran Bit Wiz Opus (115/689) for a long time. I've forgotten what it was called in FidoNet but my system was the gateway for net 115 to the back bone for several years. At a telephone cost of over $100/month. I shut it down sometime in the early 90's. It ran on a 10MHz 286. It's nice to hear that Fidonet still exists though with direct email, blogs, forums, etc. I'm quite surprised. But then, I play with 50 year old PDP-8 computers so who am I wonder why people keep old technology running?. While there are still some nodes running on POTS, it's mostly over IP these days. g.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Thu, 4 May 2023, Warner Losh wrote: On Thu, May 4, 2023, 6:59 AM geneb via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 3 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: Don't forget fidonet (a network of bulletin board systems). FidoNet is still a thing too. I'm the NC of Net 138. (which sadly, is now just myself and a couple of other nodes.) Sadly, the node lists are super out of date... Are you getting a current one? The ones I get are up to date. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Fidonet is def. a thing. There is a New Zealand group- FSXnet - that I found when researching how to actually _join_ a Fidonet network. Docs for this from the pov of someone that has never done it are few. I.E. it seem very hard to find direction to join into Fidonet unless you are already there. https://fsxnet.nz/fsxnet/join This was done because I am setting up a BBS on a Macintosh SE running System 6. There is a modern BBS being written today (in C) called SubText BBS that can connect up to Fidonet (I connected to FSX net after signing up and getting a node assignment.). It's cool to get the network messages from all over the globe on your local BBS. https://jcs.org/subtext My BBS is up: telnet to-> bbs.diller.org login as guest. It's running on a SE w/ 4MB ram. Setting this up and getting things going was a fun diversion and using a Mac SE for it was a blast as well. On Fidonet? Send me some mail: massive@21:3/178 thanks, -andy > On May 4, 2023, at 8:59 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: > > On Wed, 3 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > >> Don't forget fidonet (a network of bulletin board systems). >> > FidoNet is still a thing too. I'm the NC of Net 138. (which sadly, is now > just myself and a couple of other nodes.) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( Back in the 80's I used to run the USENET (and UUCP) gateway for Finland. Julf On 04/05/2023 18:47, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/4/2023 10:35 AM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: On 04/05/2023 14:59, geneb via cctalk wrote: FidoNet is still a thing too. So is USENET. Julf I was going to jump in and say this but you beat me to it. I am involved in stuff on USENET all the time. Many groups have been destroyed and are pretty much useless but many of them are still going strong. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
It seems like all of the good USENET providers are subscription services now. I'm not sure of any ISP that I've heard of who still runs one. Pat On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 1:49 PM Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: > > Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( > > Back in the 80's I used to run the USENET (and UUCP) > gateway for Finland. > > Julf > > On 04/05/2023 18:47, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 5/4/2023 10:35 AM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: > >> On 04/05/2023 14:59, geneb via cctalk wrote: > >> > >>> FidoNet is still a thing too. > >> > >> So is USENET. > >> > >> Julf > > > > I was going to jump in and say this but you beat me to it. > > > > > > I am involved in stuff on USENET all the time. Many groups have been > > > > destroyed and are pretty much useless but many of them are still going > > > > strong. > > > > > > bill > > > >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
A shame. :( Julf On 04/05/2023 19:51, Patrick Finnegan wrote: It seems like all of the good USENET providers are subscription services now. I'm not sure of any ISP that I've heard of who still runs one. Pat On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 1:49 PM Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( Back in the 80's I used to run the USENET (and UUCP) gateway for Finland. Julf On 04/05/2023 18:47, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/4/2023 10:35 AM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: On 04/05/2023 14:59, geneb via cctalk wrote: FidoNet is still a thing too. So is USENET. Julf I was going to jump in and say this but you beat me to it. I am involved in stuff on USENET all the time. Many groups have been destroyed and are pretty much useless but many of them are still going strong. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Thu, 4 May 2023 at 18:49, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: > > Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( I use Eternal September, via Thunderbird. Works very well. Password requirements are annoying, and the initial setup is very non-intuitive, but follow the documentation and it works. https://www.eternal-september.org/ -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Thanks! Wow, they even provide UUCP batches! Julf On 04/05/2023 20:00, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 4 May 2023 at 18:49, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( I use Eternal September, via Thunderbird. Works very well. Password requirements are annoying, and the initial setup is very non-intuitive, but follow the documentation and it works. https://www.eternal-september.org/
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/4/2023 1:41 PM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( Doesn't have to be local. I use a server in Berlin. Back in the 80's I used to run the USENET (and UUCP) gateway for Finland. I used to run a server at the University where I worked. Used to score very high in ratings. Had a satellite feed as well as the terrestrial ones and moved a lot of news in my time. Those were good times. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Thu, 4 May 2023, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: It seems like all of the good USENET providers are subscription services now. I'm not sure of any ISP that I've heard of who still runs one. You can get free access via http://www.eternal-september.org/, however they don't carry any binary groups. (no loss really) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/4/23 13:23, geneb via cctalk wrote: > You can get free access via http://www.eternal-september.org/, however > they don't carry any binary groups. (no loss really) > That's useful to know--I haven't been on usenet in perhaps 40 years. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/4/23 13:23, geneb via cctalk wrote: You can get free access via http://www.eternal-september.org/, however they don't carry any binary groups. (no loss really) On Thu, 4 May 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: That's useful to know--I haven't been on usenet in perhaps 40 years. That's OK. Any flamewars that you were reading are probably still active.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 1:46 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On 5/4/23 13:23, geneb via cctalk wrote: > >> You can get free access via http://www.eternal-september.org/, however > >> they don't carry any binary groups. (no loss really) > > On Thu, 4 May 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > That's useful to know--I haven't been on usenet in perhaps 40 years. > > That's OK. > Any flamewars that you were reading are probably still active. > That's not only really funny, but probably true. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. I consider analog modems similar to out houses. An interesting historical factoid but not something to be missed🤣. Or even reminisce about. On 5/4/2023 3:08 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/4/2023 1:41 PM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( Doesn't have to be local. I use a server in Berlin. Back in the 80's I used to run the USENET (and UUCP) gateway for Finland. I used to run a server at the University where I worked. Used to score very high in ratings. Had a satellite feed as well as the terrestrial ones and moved a lot of news in my time. Those were good times. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Thu, 4 May 2023, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. Best of both worlds: https://tempestfpga.com/retromodem/ :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
geneb wrote: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> It seems like all of the good USENET providers are subscription >> services now. > You can get free access via http://www.eternal-september.org/ There's also news.dotsrc.org. (formerly sunsite.dk)
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 04/05/2023 22:46, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Any flamewars that you were reading are probably still active. I guess the site is called eternal-september for a reason :) Julf
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Summoning my inner "grumpy old man" but the lack of (or evolved?) Web standards produce webpages congested with large advertisements, embedded videos, etc that aren't useful for the site. I don't know what the average size is these days but seems pretty ridiculous. That and the number of trackers, my system ends up sending data to 12 websites just to view something of moderate interest. Similar to unoptimized programming and games, I don't see why there are 20gb patches (I assume just uncompressed videos) but there are probably some honest answers like 3d models. It just feels like unnecessary bloat. On Fri, May 5, 2023, 12:59 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > > Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high > speed internet needed for? > >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I beg to differ with you. I get download speeds over 100 Mbps regularly. A lot of download speed is dependent on the site being downloaded from's upload speed. Also, having very high speed internet allows for streaming on multiple devices. Like when my wife watching something on the Roku TV and I'm in a zoom meeting. On 5/5/2023 12:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 10:59 AM ben via cctalk
wrote:
> On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high
> speed internet needed for?
> Ben.
>
I do development that involves pulling large SCS trees, lots of fetching of
rpms and isos. It's nice to have the bandwidth.
Also bandwidth != latency ("multiplayer games").
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/5/2023 1:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben. Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 1:06 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) > I took the question as more "why do you need a gigabit"? Comcast had kept slowly bumping us up over the term of several contracts, from 600mbit to 1200mbit and as I said, I use the speed mostly for work. We just cut the knot and got rid of cable TV but I'm pretty sure Netflix says one 4K stream requires less than 25mbit/sec.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
No doubt many folks do have a need for speed but FWIW I get by fine with 6
Mbps D/L speed, streaming Youtube and local cable channels, browsing the
web, email & fora, etc.; I've also got a fall-back 56K toll-free dial-up
option which is still good for email and messaging when broadband is not
available.
Occasionally a bit more speed would be nice when downloading a particularly
large file, but that's a good excuse to get up & stretch my legs, make a
coffee or tea, or just sit outside getting some sun and fresh air.
The best part is that together with my cell phone it only costs me C$ 50/mo.
m
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 3:03 PM Tony Jones via cctalk
wrote:
> On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 10:59 AM ben via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> > On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> > the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high
> > speed internet needed for?
> > Ben.
> >
>
> I do development that involves pulling large SCS trees, lots of fetching of
> rpms and isos. It's nice to have the bandwidth.
>
> Also bandwidth != latency ("multiplayer games").
>
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-05-05 1:02 p.m., Tony Jones via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 10:59 AM ben via cctalk
wrote:
On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high
speed internet needed for?
Ben.
I do development that involves pulling large SCS trees, lots of fetching of
rpms and isos. It's nice to have the bandwidth.
Also bandwidth != latency ("multiplayer games").
True, until the last few years, I was on dial up speeds.
Nice to have bandwidth for all UPDATES OS's think you need.
The only really big download I have done for all the old DR WHO
episodes. Now if I could find that link again.
Ben.
tagline "Don't you love FTL download speeds"
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-05-05 2:06 p.m., Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/5/2023 1:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben. Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) bill REAL BDS'S COME ON MAGNETIC TAPE. BEN @ 110 BAUD.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
The local cable channels here are served over ethernet and that works fine for me at 6 Mbps, with only a very occasional hiccup. m On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 4:22 PM Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 1:06 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) > > > > I took the question as more "why do you need a gigabit"? > > Comcast had kept slowly bumping us up over the term of several contracts, > from 600mbit to 1200mbit and as I said, I use the speed mostly for work. > > We just cut the knot and got rid of cable TV but I'm pretty sure Netflix > says one 4K stream requires less than 25mbit/sec. >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Fri, May 5, 2023, at 10:44 AM, ben via cctalk wrote: > How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? > km from > the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high > speed internet needed for? > Ben. When I had 1200 baud I wanted 2400. When I had 2400 baud I wanted 9600. When I had 9600 I wanted 14.4, then 56K, then I wanted a leased line, then I wanted a T1 but had to settle for ADSL. When I had ADSL I wanted SDSL, when I had SDSL I wanted 10 Mbit, then 25 Mbit. A few years back when Comcast screwed me over I got 100Mbit municipal fiber to the house, then upgraded to symmetric gigabit a while later. I'll always take more, and I'm not ashamed of it! I work from home, it's nice to know I can be on a video meeting with 15 people and still download an ISO image in a few seconds while someone else in the house games or watches videos. -Seth -- Seth Morabito * Poulsbo, WA * https://loomcom.com/
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Fri, 5 May 2023 at 21:26, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > > No doubt many folks do have a need for speed but FWIW I get by fine with 6 > Mbps D/L speed, streaming Youtube and local cable channels, browsing the > web, email & fora, etc.; ... wow. I had 500Mb/s for ~CzK 1000/mth in Prague. Ballpark ₤30. Here in the Isle of Man I'm on 100Mb/s and it's a moderate pain. But for my 1st 2 months here, I had only 16Mb/s at my mum's, and it was horrible. > I've also got a fall-back 56K toll-free dial-up > option which is still good for email and messaging when broadband is not > available. I kept a POTS modem around for years but after 2002 or so, it just didn't seem worth it. Even from 512kb/s, dropping an order of magnitude felt like not being online at all. By the time I was on a few megabits/sec I mothballed the dialup device. I haven't had a landline since 2014 now. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On May 4, 2023, at 10:51 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > > It seems like all of the good USENET providers are subscription > services now. I'm not sure of any ISP that I've heard of who still > runs one. What about eternal-september.org? -- Chris
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 1:31 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > > True, until the last few years, I was on dial up speeds. > I think you may be an outlier ;-)
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Toll-free dial-up and the landline were very handy at my cottage, where the only moderately high-speed option was expensive satellite or microwave access. I also worked from home at the cottage; fortunately it only involved text-only remote access which also worked remarkably well at 56K; large file transfers (off-line backups etc.) ran at night. m On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 4:41 PM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 5 May 2023 at 21:26, Mike Stein via cctalk > wrote: > > > > No doubt many folks do have a need for speed but FWIW I get by fine with > 6 > > Mbps D/L speed, streaming Youtube and local cable channels, browsing the > > web, email & fora, etc.; > > ... wow. > > I had 500Mb/s for ~CzK 1000/mth in Prague. Ballpark ₤30. > > Here in the Isle of Man I'm on 100Mb/s and it's a moderate pain. But > for my 1st 2 months here, I had only 16Mb/s at my mum's, and it was > horrible. > > > > I've also got a fall-back 56K toll-free dial-up > > option which is still good for email and messaging when broadband is not > > available. > > I kept a POTS modem around for years but after 2002 or so, it just > didn't seem worth it. Even from 512kb/s, dropping an order of > magnitude felt like not being online at all. By the time I was on a > few megabits/sec I mothballed the dialup device. > > I haven't had a landline since 2014 now. > > > > -- > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven > IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 > Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/5/2023 4:33 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-05 2:06 p.m., Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/5/2023 1:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben. Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) bill REAL BDS'S COME ON MAGNETIC TAPE. BEN @ 110 BAUD. I used to have a BSD Distro. I think it was actually two tapes. But I also think I lost it during one of my moves. I do still have a 9-track drive to read one if I ever have to, though. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I think you might be surprised by how many people still have to use dial-up; at my cottage there is no cable service and high-speed fibre is finally just being installed this year as the area becomes more populous. Cell coverage is spotty, so a local hotspot is not always available or reliable and also not very fast, and satellite/microwave access is not affordable for everyone. m On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 4:48 PM Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 1:31 PM ben via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > True, until the last few years, I was on dial up speeds. > > > > I think you may be an outlier ;-) >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 2:03 PM Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > I think you might be surprised by how many people still have to use > dial-up; > obviously it still exists, a 1 sec Google search shows that: https://www.statista.com/statistics/185532/us-household-dial-up-internet-connection-usage-by-state-2009/ but sub 1% nation wide is an outlier to me. your statistics may vary ;-)
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Fri, 5 May 2023 at 16:41, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 5 May 2023 at 21:26, Mike Stein via cctalk > wrote: > > > > No doubt many folks do have a need for speed but FWIW I get by fine with > 6 > > Mbps D/L speed, streaming Youtube and local cable channels, browsing the > > web, email & fora, etc.; > > ... wow. > > I had 500Mb/s for ~CzK 1000/mth in Prague. Ballpark ₤30. > > Here in the Isle of Man I'm on 100Mb/s and it's a moderate pain. But > for my 1st 2 months here, I had only 16Mb/s at my mum's, and it was > horrible. > > I think it's generally a case of proximity to a population center. In a city in the US you can generally get very high speeds at reasonable cost, at least a couple of hundred mbit/s, but that decreases almost exponentially as you move farther out. I live in an area that I wouldn't classify as completely rural but it's not exactly suburban either and my options are limited to high prices for cable internet - I have 30 mbit/s down but only 5 mbit/s up for $40/mo, and that's essentially at cost because my provider is a cooperative. The commercial offerings are even worse. -Henry
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
When we moved to this house 33 years ago, there was no cable (still isn't available), and wired POTS was it. About 12 wire miles from the CO, so 56K was just a dream. Maybe 15 years ago, I was approached by the local telco because they wanted to replaced deteriorating buried copper with fiber and needed some land for a terminal. I sold them about 300 sq. ft. that I didn't even know that I owned. They poured a concrete pad and set up some boxes on it. Initially, connection was 5 Mbps; a few years ago, I was offered 20 for a lifetime rate of USD$40/month. It was gradually bumped up to about 55 Mbps. It works for me--if I wanted to pay more, I could get 100. This is a rural area. If I go a half-mile up the road, the people there are still 12-13 wire miles from the CO with no broadband at all. If that weren't enough, cell coverage there is maybe a bar-and-a-half of 2G. Some use satellite, but during windy or wet weather, I understand that their speed falls to nearly worthless. Lots of big evergreen (Doug-fir and Ponderosa pine) trees here to lay waste to comms. A utility from a county south of here has been stringing fiber along the road, which has promise--but no estimates of when connectivity will be available. People evidently don't recall the bad old days of POTS where calls outside of your calling area was billed as long-distance and reception was noisy and slow. Back then, a leased line connected to a 208 modem would run you about 5 kilobucks/month for 4800 bps, sync. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
> On May 5, 2023, at 3:55 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > People evidently don't recall the bad old days of POTS where calls > outside of your calling area was billed as long-distance and reception > was noisy and slow. Back then, a leased line connected to a 208 modem > would run you about 5 kilobucks/month for 4800 bps, sync. And based on some of the complaints I’ve been reading lately from other list members, I feel compelled to point out that all kinds of Real Work occurred within such constraints nonetheless, for decades, all over the world. ok bear.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-05-05 2:48 p.m., Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 1:31 PM ben via cctalk wrote: True, until the last few years, I was on dial up speeds. I think you may be an outlier ;-) You know a MOOSE could just walk and read this. You don't want a angry MOOSE. ⢀⣤⡤⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢠⢊⡾⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⡏⠸⠦⠤⣤⠀⠀⢀⡦⡄⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⣼⢡⠀⠀⣰⠁⠀⠀⠀⢰⢦⡀⢸⡇⣷⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⡏⢸⠀⠀⠈⢹⡇⠀⣀⡀⠀⣤⣤⠀⠀⢸⠳⠼⠀⠙⠛⢁⡿⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⣷⢸⣄⣀⠀⠈⠉⢉⣩⠿⠃⡟⠀⠙⠒⠛⢀⡼⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠸⣞⠿⣿⠂⠀⠀⣸⡅⠀⠀⠀⣀⣾⠟⠃⠀⠀⢀⣠⠟⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠘⢲⣄⠘⢳⣄⠀⠀⡞⣟⠀⢀⣼⠟⠛⠀⠀⠀⠛⣻⡏⠀⠀ ⢠⣄⣀⣀⠼⠋⠉⠈⠉⢉⡷⠶⣛⣀⣈⣉⠉⠁⠀⢀⣀⣤⠶⠚⠉⠀⠀⠀ ⠸⡤⠚⠁⠀⠘⣷⣿⣅⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠓⠒⠒⠚⠛⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣠⠞⠁⠀⠀⢀⣶⡦⠄⠀⠀⠉⢿⠻⢭⣶⣶⢤⡤⠀⠀ ⠀⢀⡼⠁⠀⠀⠀⠈⠳⢤⣠⣴⠾⠃⠀⠀ ⢰⡞⠀⢀⣦⠀⠘⠢⢤⣀⠀⠀ ⠸⣧⠀⣀⣴⢀⣤⣠⠤⠴⠖⠛⠁⠈⠉⠉⠉⠙⠢⢄⣀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠙⢶⣿⣟⡽⠋⢸⢰⡆⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠙⠒⢤⣤⣄⣀⣀⡀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠁⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠈⠙⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢸⡇⣿⢠⠀⠙⠢⡀⠀ ⠙⢿⣿⠀⠀⡀⠘⡆ ⠀⠀⡽⠀⠀⢹⠀⣹ ⠀⠀⣧⣿⢢⣸⡾⠋ ⠀⠀⠹⢿⣸⣇⠀⠀⡀⠀⠈⣆⢀⡿⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⣟⠦⣷⣷⠀⠀⢘⡆⠀⠀⠀⣾⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠈⠁⠀⢹⠀⣠⠞⢥⠤⠶⠶⢦⣀⣀⣀⡤⠶⣀⡀⠹⣆⠀⠀ ⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⡾⠁⠀⣼⠀⠈⢻⡓⠲⣄⡀⠀⠈⣇⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢰⡏⠀⠀⢀⡜⣇⠀⠀⣧⠀⠀⢸⠀⢠⡏⢻⠀⠀⡏⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢀⡇⠀⣴⠋⠀⠈⢧⠀⡇⠀⠀⡼⠀⣼⠀⠸⡆⠀⡇⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢸⠃⢰⠃⠀⠀⠀⠸⡆⢻⠀⠀⡇⢠⡇⠀⠀⣧⠀⡇⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⠏⢀⡎⠀⣧⠸⡆⣼⠁⣼⠀⠀⠀⣿⠀⡇⠀ ⠀⠀⡞⠀⡞⠀⠀⢹⠀⣇⠀⠀⠀⢠⡏⢠⡇⠀⠀⠀⣿⠀⢷⠀ ⠀⡼⠁⣼⠁⠀⠀⢸⠀⢸⡀⠀⢀⡟⠀⢼⣿⠀⠸⡆ ⡴⠁⢰⠃⠀⠀⠀⣸⠀⠈⣧⢀⣾⣀⣲⡟⠂⠀⠀⠀⣿⠀⣀⣷ ⠀⠀⢀⠜⠁⠀⡏⠀⠀⠀⣰⣯⣤⣽⠃⠀⠀⠀⢠⣯⣮⣼⠏⠀⠀⠀⢀⣽⣥⠼⡇⠀ ⢀⡴⣏⣀⡴⠟⠃⠀⠀⠀⠛⠚⠒⠉⠘⠛⠓⠚⠁⠀ ⠈⣛⣗⢚⠃⠀ The real catch with the internet was getting a local provider that did not charge a arm and a leg for any service. When BBS's where around, long distance was still $1.00 a minute. Ben. ⠀⠀
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-05-05 2:57 p.m., Mike Katz wrote: And for some more nostalgia: 4.5MB of punch cards (approx. 334 lbs): That is old, a full sized skirt.:)
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I do remember the bad old days, when even a leased line was insufficiently fast or reliable to send a quantity of data. I recall many times taking the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with my Samsonite carry-on case and not so much as a toothbrush. On arrival, turn the contents of the case over to someone waiting at the gate, and catch the next flight home with an empty case. My case, which I still have, comfortably accommodates six 10.5" reels of tape. I remember flying on an USAF general's plane with several 844 disk packs. One time, I forgot my B-area badge, so the general gave me his. Nobody saluted, however. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
There used to be a running joke in the test center on Kwajalein Atoll about the C141 full of mission tapes having a higher bit rate than the undersea cable connecting us to the mainland. Steve On 5/5/23 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I do remember the bad old days, when even a leased line was insufficiently fast or reliable to send a quantity of data. I recall many times taking the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with my Samsonite carry-on case and not so much as a toothbrush. On arrival, turn the contents of the case over to someone waiting at the gate, and catch the next flight home with an empty case. My case, which I still have, comfortably accommodates six 10.5" reels of tape. I remember flying on an USAF general's plane with several 844 disk packs. One time, I forgot my B-area badge, so the general gave me his. Nobody saluted, however. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
The iconic quote was Tannenbaum's "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." On Fri, 5 May 2023, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: There used to be a running joke in the test center on Kwajalein Atoll about the C141 full of mission tapes having a higher bit rate than the undersea cable connecting us to the mainland. Steve
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-05-05 8:39 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I do remember the bad old days, when even a leased line was insufficiently fast or reliable to send a quantity of data. I recall many times taking the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with my Samsonite carry-on case and not so much as a toothbrush. On arrival, turn the contents of the case over to someone waiting at the gate, and catch the next flight home with an empty case. My case, which I still have, comfortably accommodates six 10.5" reels of tape. I remember flying on an USAF general's plane with several 844 disk packs. One time, I forgot my B-area badge, so the general gave me his. Nobody saluted, however. --Chuck And us POOR people get the Station Wagon. I remember them as a kid, but they have been replaced by king cabs. Ben.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
AT&T recently ran a fiber line along the boulevard adjacent to the farm. The hold-up in ordering service is that they want a state-issued identification, which I don't have, and don't want to have. Their most incredibly obnoxiously stupid reason for this is (and I kid you not) "you will have our modem". Oh, I'm sorry, are you worried about your stupid $15 piece of plastic from China? No, it's not that, it's something sinister, and the rep is either told to give a stupid answer or truly believes the stupid answer they were told to give. I can easily get around the issue, but then, I've really always hated AT&T, because Ma Bell birthed Big Brother, and I'm sure that's the real reason they want to know who is connecting up to their service. I invested much time and trouble over the years getting away from them, only to eventually end up back under AT&T after they gobbled up every provider I signed up with to get away from them. This latest episode reminds me why I always tried to stay away from that garbage corporation. That being said, it's really hard to justify sticking with my shitty cellphone service as my internet gateway when I'm being tempted with cheap 300Mpbs bandwidth. The 5G "upgrade" was just a bait & switch: reception is no better than with the old 4G/LTE service, and dropouts as just as frequent. All these corporations are damned dirty shit-eating liars. This thread is thoroughly off-topic, but since we're here, I needed to vent. Sellam On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 9:38 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2023-05-05 8:39 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > I do remember the bad old days, when even a leased line was > > insufficiently fast or reliable to send a quantity of data. I recall > > many times taking the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with my Samsonite > > carry-on case and not so much as a toothbrush. On arrival, turn the > > contents of the case over to someone waiting at the gate, and catch the > > next flight home with an empty case. > > > > My case, which I still have, comfortably accommodates six 10.5" reels of > > tape. > > > > I remember flying on an USAF general's plane with several 844 disk > > packs. One time, I forgot my B-area badge, so the general gave me his. > > Nobody saluted, however. > > > > --Chuck > > > > > And us POOR people get the Station Wagon. I remember them as a kid, > but they have been replaced by king cabs. Ben. > >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/5/2023 3:33 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-05 2:06 p.m., Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/5/2023 1:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben. Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) bill REAL BDS'S COME ON MAGNETIC TAPE. BEN @ 110 BAUD. Wow, magnetic tape, how modern. What about paper tape or punch cards (Holerith if you are old enough to remember that name). Also if we are talking about download speeds and protocols what about Carrier Pigeon Internet Protocol (CPIP or IPoCP). This encompasses RFC-1149 & amended by RFC-2549. A carrier pigeon carrying a 1TB USB memory stick and flying at 40MPH (2/3's of it's maximum speed) for 40 miles would yield a data rate of 305,419,896 bps. Not bad for analog🤣 And for some more nostalgia: 4.5MB of punch cards (approx. 334 lbs):
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I believe it was Henry Spenser at a USENIX conference that said “Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with mag tape”. David > On May 5, 2023, at 8:59 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk > wrote: > > There used to be a running joke in the test center on Kwajalein Atoll about > the C141 full of mission tapes having a higher bit rate than the undersea > cable connecting us to the mainland. > > Steve > > On 5/5/23 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> I do remember the bad old days, when even a leased line was >> insufficiently fast or reliable to send a quantity of data. I recall >> many times taking the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with my Samsonite >> carry-on case and not so much as a toothbrush. On arrival, turn the >> contents of the case over to someone waiting at the gate, and catch the >> next flight home with an empty case. >> >> My case, which I still have, comfortably accommodates six 10.5" reels of >> tape. >> >> I remember flying on an USAF general's plane with several 844 disk >> packs. One time, I forgot my B-area badge, so the general gave me his. >> Nobody saluted, however. >> >> --Chuck >> >> >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Chuck, Did you at least get a bag peanuts on the flight? Ken On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 11:20 AM David Barto via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I believe it was Henry Spenser at a USENIX conference that said “Never > underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with mag tape”. > > David > > > > On May 5, 2023, at 8:59 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > There used to be a running joke in the test center on Kwajalein Atoll > about the C141 full of mission tapes having a higher bit rate than the > undersea cable connecting us to the mainland. > > > > Steve > > > > On 5/5/23 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> I do remember the bad old days, when even a leased line was > >> insufficiently fast or reliable to send a quantity of data. I recall > >> many times taking the "noon balloon" out of San Jose with my Samsonite > >> carry-on case and not so much as a toothbrush. On arrival, turn the > >> contents of the case over to someone waiting at the gate, and catch the > >> next flight home with an empty case. > >> > >> My case, which I still have, comfortably accommodates six 10.5" reels of > >> tape. > >> > >> I remember flying on an USAF general's plane with several 844 disk > >> packs. One time, I forgot my B-area badge, so the general gave me his. > >> Nobody saluted, however. > >> > >> --Chuck > >> > >> > > > > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/7/23 08:35, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > Chuck, > > Did you at least get a bag peanuts on the flight? > It was always a dinner flight, so I had my choice of chicken or mystery meat (the flight attendants called it that). If I was able to make reservations, I usually specified the kosher meal--better than warmed over TV dinners. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Did you ever choose the mystery meal? Regards, Tarek Hoteit > On May 7, 2023, at 9:50 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 5/7/23 08:35, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: >> Chuck, >> >> Did you at least get a bag peanuts on the flight? >> > > It was always a dinner flight, so I had my choice of chicken or mystery > meat (the flight attendants called it that). If I was able to make > reservations, I usually specified the kosher meal--better than warmed > over TV dinners. > > --Chuck > >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/7/23 11:58, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: > Did you ever choose the mystery meal? > > Regards, > Tarek Hoteit Only if it was the only choice left. On the menu, I think it was called "salisbury steak" --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Salisbury is the place in England where they used to dump the unusable remnants of the animals that went to slaughter. Sellam On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 12:18 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 5/7/23 11:58, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: > > Did you ever choose the mystery meal? > > > > Regards, > > Tarek Hoteit > > Only if it was the only choice left. On the menu, I think it was called > "salisbury steak" > > --Chuck > >
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-05-07 19:08, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Salisbury is the place in England where they used to dump the unusable remnants of the animals that went to slaughter. Sellam On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 12:18 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On 5/7/23 11:58, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: Did you ever choose the mystery meal? Regards, Tarek Hoteit Only if it was the only choice left. On the menu, I think it was called "salisbury steak" --Chuck Is that the plain truth? Sorry, couldn't resist! Nigel -- Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is latency. I need to move 1 PB . how long will it take filling and packing enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ?
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
LTO-9 is probably not the best route for "Sneakernet" transfers. When Tanenbaum uttered that famous quote, tape was still relatively fast (at least sequentially), as well as it having unparalleled capacity. Nowadays, if you were to do large-but-fast data transfers, i'd chuck all the data on a large SAN and put that in the back of the van. Amazon AWS offer a similar product when moving data from one place to another. Of course, if you had enough LTO-9 drives to load/unload data all in parallel, the transfer time would probably be in the same ballpark as the SAN. But keeping the data synced would be a nightmare, and all those LTO-9 drives would be horrendously expensive. Yes, a van full of data hurtling down the highway will still have much more bandwidth than an internet connection, but nowadays what's in the back of the van is unlikely to be tape. Cheers, Josh Rice -- Original Message -- From: "Stefan Skoglund via cctalk" To: da...@kdbarto.org; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "Stefan Skoglund" Sent: Monday, 2 Oct, 2023 At 10:08 Subject: [cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is latency. I need to move 1 PB . how long will it take filling and packing enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ?
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Stefan, Back it up to floppy diskettes. HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. -Ken On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is > latency. > > I need to move 1 PB . how long will it take filling and packing > enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? > > How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? > -- End of line JOB TERMINATED
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote: The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is latency. I need to move 1 PB . how long will it take filling and packing enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? On Mon, 2 Oct 2023, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: Back it up to floppy diskettes. HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. Far too unstable and prone to damage and data corruption. Use dead-tree technology of cards or paper tape. If you use cards, put diagonal sharpie marks on the decks, to facilitate visual re-ordering after the crash on the freeway. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I remember making those lines, but they were more for a crash across the room on the way from the 082 sorter to the 077 collator. Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I remember my thirty-year old cell phone number... On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:15 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is > latency. > >> > >> I need to move 1 PB . how long will it take filling and packing > >> enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? > >> > >> How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2023, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > > Back it up to floppy diskettes. > > HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. > > Far too unstable and prone to damage and data corruption. > Use dead-tree technology of cards or paper tape. > If you use cards, put diagonal sharpie marks on the decks, to facilitate > visual re-ordering after the crash on the freeway. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
Mike wrote: ... Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I remember my thirty-year old cell phone number... Because you rarely, if ever, call it. ;-)
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-10-02 1:15 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 5:18 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote: The main problem with that lorry hurtling down the freeway is latency. I need to move 1 PB . how long will it take filling and packing enough IBM LTO-9 tapes to send 1 PB ? How long does it takes to fill 1 tape with 18 TB ? On Mon, 2 Oct 2023, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: Back it up to floppy diskettes. HaHa. Sorry I could not resist. Far too unstable and prone to damage and data corruption. Use dead-tree technology of cards or paper tape. If you use cards, put diagonal sharpie marks on the decks, to facilitate visual re-ordering after the crash on the freeway. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com Also EAST / WEST , in case of data collision. :)
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 2023-10-02 4:36 p.m., Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: Mike wrote: ... Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I remember my thirty-year old cell phone number... Because you rarely, if ever, call it. ;-) I never could figure out how to call myself, so I have no need to remember it. BTW the last time I have seen a phone book was about 25 years ago.
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
I have to call it every time I misplace it in the house somewhere ;-) Never in the fridge yet, so far... Golden years, my derriere! On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 6:37 PM Rick Bensene via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Mike wrote: > ... > Gawd, I still remember those numbers, some 60 years later; so why can't I > remember my thirty-year old cell phone number... > > Because you rarely, if ever, call it. ;-) > > >
