RE: injection prevention

[Dave Watts]

> I think that approach is asinine.  To blindly sanitize 
> variables with no regard for what they contain seems dumb.  
> The correct answer to me would be to sanitize as necessary 
> with functions like htmleditformat() at the point of use.

I don't think there is a single "correct" answer. That said, there is a good
argument for storing "unsafe" strings and making them safe when viewed. This
article mentions both approaches, although it's really about something else
altogether:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
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injection prevention

[Brad Wood]

So, what are your thoughts on using the following logic to prevent
cross-site scripting attacks:

 

Place code in Application.cfm to strip out ALL tags in all URL, FORM,
and COOKIE variables. 

Note: this would not allow you to pass things like XML around in URL or
FORM fields.

 

I think that approach is asinine.  To blindly sanitize variables with no
regard for what they contain seems dumb.  The correct answer to me would
be to sanitize as necessary with functions like htmleditformat() at the
point of use.

 

Am I crazy, or do other people do this?

 

~Brad



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Devil Went Down to Silicon Valley

[s. isaac dealey]

http://ontap.riaforge.org/blog/index.cfm/2008/2/6/Devil-Went-Down-to-Silicon-Valley

All comments, criticisms, etc. welcome, though probably better to make
them on the blog rather than here. :) 

-- 
s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch
 isn't it time for a change? 
 ph: 503.236.3691

http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog



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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Craigsell]

http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/editions/#s4

Developer edition is free.  All that's left is the will to learn.

I'll bet that as Adobe merges more applications together like the are doing 
now (LiveCycle, CF, Flex, etc.) and make everything PDF compatible, the 
market share will increase.  The ability to create, manage, and work with 
PDFs is a powerful incentive.  Hopefully that will overcome the price point 
issue - if hosting companies don't put it on their servers it makes it hard 
to justify coding applications in it.

Warren 


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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[s. isaac dealey]

> Correct. However  there is a direct relationship between interest and
> getting a job.

I was responding to a comment about (paraphrase) "Adobe should do
something to improve adoption amongst SMB because they'll sell more
licenses". So yup, agree with you there -- but I wasn't arguing against
this. 


-- 
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 isn't it time for a change? 
 ph: 503.236.3691

http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog



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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Gerald Guido]

>> I do however take issue with craigslist being used as a benchmark for
determining the interest in ColdFusion and the assumption that there is
a direct relationship between interest and profitability.

Correct. However  there is a direct relationship between interest and
getting a job.


On Feb 7, 2008 8:53 PM, s. isaac dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > But guess what? There's not a whole lot of small-biz/enterprise
> > asking CF by name. And I don't think anyone here will dispute that.
> > If you check out craigslist, dice, monster, etc... demand for PHP
> > developers far out number demand for CF developers. If you dispute
> > that, you are in denial.
>
> I certainly don't deny that's the case on craigslist.
>
> I do however take issue with craigslist being used as a benchmark for
> determining the interest in ColdFusion and the assumption that there is
> a direct relationship between interest and profitability. Throughout the
> world, there's immense interest in water, though until very recently
> there was very little profit in it, and ultimately what surprising
> profit there is to be had in water these days is largely an effect of
> marketing spin i.e. commercial con artistry. There is conversely very
> little, you might say even miniscule interest in WebSphere compared to
> the interest in water, and by most accounts WebSphere is pretty
> profitable ostensibly with much less in the way of commercial deception.
>
> At some point in the future, Adobe may become more interested in the
> "long tail" (SMB) instead of targeting the enterprise. It may or may not
> be beneficial to them now or in the future. But even with every last
> scrap of information that's available with regards to the market (number
> of consumers, amount of money they're spending, etc. etc.) the execs at
> Adobe responsible for pricing are probably not getting it 100% correct,
> simply because economics is almost on par with quantum physics in its
> complexity. I don't think I'm likely to be able to accurately judge how
> on-target Adobe is by looking at craigslist and seeing that there are
> fewer CF jobs for me to bid on than there are PHP or ASP jobs.
>
>
> --
> s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch
>  isn't it time for a change?
> ph: 503.236.3691
>
> http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog
>
>
>
> 

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Aaron Rouse]

Our entire CF based RAD tool was built originally for CF3 and upgraded some
for 4 and never touched since then.  We had to change one page when we went
to CF6 and nothing for CF7 or CF8.  The one page we had to change, we had to
change a handful of references to #URL# to #Variables.URL#.

On Feb 7, 2008 4:38 PM, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:32 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> >
> > > I would guess the same thing that happened to CF 4.5, which I
> > > would consider to be the ASP classic of those days.  It got
> > > upgraded to newer and better things.
> >
> > CFML written for a 4.5 server is largely compatible with CF 8. I just
> > upgraded a CF 4.5 server to CF 8. "Classic" ASP doesn't use the same
> > languages as ASP.NET.
> >
>
> Largely compatible does not mean compatible.  I had to make a bunch of
> changes just upgrading from 7 to 8.
>
> Are you saying that you can't run classic asp sites on IIS 6/7?
>
> CFC's are largely a new language that was totally not available in 4.5 and
> so are functions.  I don't remember when CFSCRIPT was added, but that's
> pretty much a new language.
>
> Russ
>
>
>
> 

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[s. isaac dealey]

> > No, I'm pretty sure it was introduced in 4.x. I seem to recall it
> was > 4.0.1, but I'm not entirely sure. 
> 
> I bet Ben Forta could tell us half asleep with both eyes closed. 
> He's a master of random CF version history factoids.  :)

I should hope so! He's been the product evangelist since before I
started working with it. :) 

-- 
s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch
 isn't it time for a change? 
 ph: 503.236.3691

http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog



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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Aaron Rouse]

Every computer lab I have been in within the past 3 years has had computers
that could easily handle the needs of CF and even CF and MSSQL Express.
This includes 4 Universities and 3 community colleges.  I had to install CF
onto my personal laptop within the past year for a class that was not even
CF related at all, it just had a bunch of examples in a CFM application and
the book detailed how to install the developer version and how to run it.
Out of the 45 or so people in the class, I do not recall one person
complaining about anything in regards to the CF.

On Feb 7, 2008 2:29 PM, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That would require a classroom with powerful enough computers that can run
> CF.  That's a pretty large investment.  I know in my university, all the
> students have laptops, so it would be a lot easier to have a shared server
> and have all of the students put their work there.  It would also teach
> them
> more about what goes on in the real world, as most developers develop
> straight on the server, and a lot of times straight on the productions
> server.
>
> Having each student install CF and IIS or apache on their own PC might be
> a
> bit of a pain, and laptops in general are not very good choice for running
> CF servers, although I know some people are doing it, including me.  Those
> who are just taking this as a class, might not appreciate their laptop
> slowing down because of CF though.
>
> Russ
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:21 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> >
> > As a student you typically do not have to pay to be able to put up a
> > hosted
> > PHP page.  Most universities give their students free web accounts and
> > most
> > of those accounts have access to PHP.  At least that has been my
> > experience
> > with three major Universities here in Texas.  There are of course
> > limitations to what you can do, for example I know the University of
> > Houston
> > provides the accounts, PHP, and even Oracle accounts but I do not think
> > they
> > provide a way for students to run PHP pages that connect to the Oracle
> > database.
> >
> > I personally do not see why a class could not be taught using no more
> than
> > the developer version of CF.  Each workstation would have it loaded up
> as
> > would the teacher's machine.
> >
> > On Feb 7, 2008 1:56 PM, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Flex is client side technology. Guess what - the "client" for CF,
> > > which would be you running CF on your own machine, is also free.
> > > Shoot, as it stands, CF is "more" free as you don't have to be a
> > > student to run it on your own machine for nothing.
> > >
> > > Now your argument stating that you would only learn it if you could
> > > host it - I'm not sure I'd say thats a common belief - but you have to
> > > pay for PHP hosting as well.
> > >
> > > On Feb 7, 2008 12:03 PM, Brad Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > On a related note, according to James Ward from Adobe (who visited
> my
> > > > user group last night) the educational pricing for Flex is free.
> > > >
> > > > I would definitely be in favor of similar educational pricing for
> CF.
> > I
> > > > learned CF in college in my spare time, but NOT because of the
> > developer
> > > > edition but rather due to a friend who owned a CF server and let me
> > host
> > > > their for free.  If it hadn't been for that there's no way I would
> > have
> > > > bothered with CF when I couldn't actually use it for real on my
> > personal
> > > > site to experiment with.  I would have probably gone over to Perl or
> > > > PHP.
> > > >
> > > > ~Brad
> > > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> ==
> > =
> > > Raymond Camden, Camden Media
> > >
> > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
> > > AOL IM : cfjedimaster
> > >
> > > Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[s. isaac dealey]

> But guess what? There's not a whole lot of small-biz/enterprise
> asking CF by name. And I don't think anyone here will dispute that. 
> If you check out craigslist, dice, monster, etc... demand for PHP
> developers far out number demand for CF developers. If you dispute
> that, you are in denial.

I certainly don't deny that's the case on craigslist. 

I do however take issue with craigslist being used as a benchmark for
determining the interest in ColdFusion and the assumption that there is
a direct relationship between interest and profitability. Throughout the
world, there's immense interest in water, though until very recently
there was very little profit in it, and ultimately what surprising
profit there is to be had in water these days is largely an effect of
marketing spin i.e. commercial con artistry. There is conversely very
little, you might say even miniscule interest in WebSphere compared to
the interest in water, and by most accounts WebSphere is pretty
profitable ostensibly with much less in the way of commercial deception.

At some point in the future, Adobe may become more interested in the
"long tail" (SMB) instead of targeting the enterprise. It may or may not
be beneficial to them now or in the future. But even with every last
scrap of information that's available with regards to the market (number
of consumers, amount of money they're spending, etc. etc.) the execs at
Adobe responsible for pricing are probably not getting it 100% correct,
simply because economics is almost on par with quantum physics in its
complexity. I don't think I'm likely to be able to accurately judge how
on-target Adobe is by looking at craigslist and seeing that there are
fewer CF jobs for me to bid on than there are PHP or ASP jobs. 


-- 
s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch
 isn't it time for a change? 
 ph: 503.236.3691

http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog



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Re: Beyond Captcha

[James Holmes]

I think youtube must have had a number of people with the same issue,
as it's now simply a single colour text snippet on a white background,
but I agree with the principle (I am also colour vision impaired and
I've seen some where I thought, "there's a word in there?").

I keep hearing good things about cfformprotect and It's about time I
tried it out.

On Feb 8, 2008 10:17 AM, Kay Smoljak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2008 9:30 AM, s. isaac dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > not to mention for example, just being color blind
> > which is much more common, particularly amongst men, could cause
> > problems with captchas that work for people who are hearing impaired.
>
> Bit of anecdotal evidence here: a friend of mine is color blind. The
> YouTube signup CAPTCHA took 18 goes for him to get it right. They're
> lucky he really, really wanted an account.
>
> Personally, I get "CAPTCHA anxiety" every time I see one of those
> things, and I don't have any impairments at all. I would much rather
> deal with spam accounts in other ways - even using methods that
> involve more manual work for me/my client - that don't inconvenience
> users.
>
> --
> Kay Smoljak
> business: www.cleverstarfish.com
> standards: kay.zombiecoder.com
> coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
> personal: goatlady.wordpress.com
>
> 

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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Kay Smoljak]

On Feb 8, 2008 9:30 AM, s. isaac dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> not to mention for example, just being color blind
> which is much more common, particularly amongst men, could cause
> problems with captchas that work for people who are hearing impaired.

Bit of anecdotal evidence here: a friend of mine is color blind. The
YouTube signup CAPTCHA took 18 goes for him to get it right. They're
lucky he really, really wanted an account.

Personally, I get "CAPTCHA anxiety" every time I see one of those
things, and I don't have any impairments at all. I would much rather
deal with spam accounts in other ways - even using methods that
involve more manual work for me/my client - that don't inconvenience
users.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
standards: kay.zombiecoder.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: goatlady.wordpress.com

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> I don't know either. Perhaps because you have invested 
> heavily in CF like many of us here?

I am more invested in the defense of common sense. I think that the people
who are complaining about how Adobe isn't giving CF away, or getting it into
schools, etc, have unrealistic expectations about (a) what exactly Adobe can
do and (b) whether it's in Adobe's best interest to do so.

> True. However, ColdFusion taught me the *experiential 
> meaning* of FUD. 

I'm not sure what that means.

> Which is why this thread has gone on so long 
> and also why I am learning Java and ..NET.

> The point is: People are jumping ship or at least getting 
> prepared to.
> 
> FUD is in the air and is *palpable*.

Again, this is nothing new. People have been doomsaying about CF since
before there was, say, ASP. People have been jumping ship all this time.
And, of course, everyone knows best how to make CF more popular than the
people actually selling the product. And yet, CF is still here.

Well, this thread, or one very much like it, goes on so long every time it
comes up, probably about once or twice a year. You should certainly learn
Java or .NET or both anyway, because they're good things to know, but I
wouldn't do it solely on account of this thread.

> I was briefly placated by Adobe's hiring a new Evangelist 
> until I read the by line on his blog.

So one admittedly juvenile crack on a personal blog outweighs the fact that
Adobe is taking CF evangelism more seriously? He doesn't represent your
"stack of choice" any more than Steve Ballmer represents .NET.

Developers, developers, DEVELOPERS!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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Re: CFC, YES OR NO

[James Holmes]

Even in that rare situation, multiple instances can be created easily,
each with the appropriate datasource, all with no modification in the
CFC code. Even this tiny use of state vastly improves the portability
of the code.

OO doesn't have to be all or nothing.

On Feb 7, 2008 10:04 PM, Dominic Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>By introducing state to the object
> however, you can set the datasource the first time you get an instance of
> the component and then never have to worry about it again (unless you are
> using multiple datasources which I imagine would be rare in such a
> situation). The component is then self contained and as such is more
> reusable.

-- 
mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles:
http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/

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RE: Need some procedural / technical advice...

[Rick Faircloth]

Thanks for the reply and the tip, Dennis.

Rick

> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis Powers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:09 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Need some procedural / technical advice...
> 
> >> "I looked at the data and found what looked
> >> like Chinese characters in some of the fields that caused errors.
> 
> >> However, they just provide scripts to build
> >> tables and tab-delimited text data files.
> 
> Automated imports relay on clean properly formatted data or else a larger
> amount of error checking plus human intervention.
> 
> We ran into this with a client that was receiving used car data via FTP.
> Since we couldn't anticipate every error that was submitted and often times
> although the data was formatted correctly it was incorrect (example: "Color:
> 4Wheel Drive") we fixed what we could but left the final choice to the user.
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Dennis Powers
> UXB Internet - A website design and Hosting Company
> 690 Wolcott Road
> P.O. Box 6029
> Wolcott, CT  06716
> Tel: (203)879-2844
> http://www.uxbinternet.com/
> http://www.uxb.net/
> 
> 




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Re: Beyond Captcha

[s. isaac dealey]

I was just gonna say, y'know some sites like PayPal have decided to
implement audio captcha for visually impaired users, so my thought was
-- okay, guy gets the notion that maybe an audio captcha is just better
as an alternative to the visual captcha and forgets that there are also
deaf users who would be unable to use that one. So for any system that
uses captcha to work across the board, it's got to cover both visually
and hearing impaired, not to mention for example, just being color blind
which is much more common, particularly amongst men, could cause
problems with captchas that work for people who are hearing impaired. 

> Your examples aside, the below paragraph was intended to point out that all
> possible users need to be considered for a 'better mouse trap', not just the
> developer's notions.  Being hearing impaired yourself, I would have expected
> that you would understand the need to adhere to Section 508 guidelines as
> well as those issues that may not be addressed in Section 508, as opposed to
> taking my point personally, rather than an overall suggestion to all.
> 
> 
> >Why is being able to read an issue for the deaf again?  Being hearing
> >impaired myself, I'm kind of stumped on that one.  In fact, how is reading
> >a simple text on a page an issue for anyone that can't hear or is color
> >blind?  If you're worried about the color blind / deaf community not being
> >able to pass a simple question, then I don't know what to say to that.

-- 
s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch
 isn't it time for a change? 
 ph: 503.236.3691

http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog



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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Gerald Guido]

>>> I don't know why I bother responding to these threads, though.

I don't know either. Perhaps because you have invested heavily in CF like
many of us here?

>> People have been griping about CF pricing/marketing/evangelism since it
was an Allaire
product.

True. However, ColdFusion taught me the *experiential meaning* of FUD. Which
is why this thread has gone on so long and also why I am learning Java and
..NET.

The point is: People are jumping ship or at least getting prepared to.

FUD is in the air and is *palpable*.

I was briefly placated by Adobe's hiring a new Evangelist until I read the
by line on his blog.

Personally I do not want an "Evangelist" for my stack of choice who uses
terms like "PHP and open sores fanboys" in the about section of his blog.

Nothing personal, and I am all for free expression, and I am sure he is very
good at what he does etc., but I don't want a person with that sort of
sophomoric mentality being a spokesperson for a technology I have spent
years mastering. Especially in the Enterprise.

It doesn't give me warm fuzzies.


On Feb 7, 2008 5:18 PM, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > You keep saying that Adobe is targeting the enterprise.  Most
> > enterprises I know are not using ColdFusion, and are using
> > .NET because .Net is more "enterprisey".  If they have money
> > and want to invest in the JAVA technology, they will go for
> > something like Websphere.
>
> I didn't say they were successfully targeting the enterprise - although I
> think they are, based on the sales I've seen - or that most enterprises
> are
> using CF - I don't ever expect to see CF be the dominant web application
> server. I said they're targeting the enterprise. I think that's fairly
> self-evident, based on their pricing model. Again, though, it doesn't
> really
> matter whether it's the dominant technology, to Adobe - the only thing
> that
> matters to Adobe is whether they're maximizing their profit.
>
> And, for what it's worth, I've seen several environments with CF on
> WebSphere.
>
> > ColdFusion is just not an enterprise ready technology, and it
> > won't be until they at least support x64.
>
> Very few enterprises are using x64 for production application servers, as
> far as I can tell. Most enterprises, again as far as I can tell, are not
> early adopters. The enterprises I'm working with, that are using CF, would
> disagree with your characterization of CF as not "enterprise-ready". Your
> observations may be different from mine, of course.
>
> > ColdFusion is best aimed at SMBs IMHO.  They are the ones
> > that can make the most use of it, and they are the ones that
> > I feel make up the bulk of Adobe's revenues for Cf.
>
> Again, this is a matter of your opinion. Your opinion (and mine, for that
> matter) are irrelevant, since neither of us are responsible for CF pricing
> and licensing at Adobe.
>
> I don't know why I bother responding to these threads, though. People have
> been griping about CF pricing/marketing/evangelism since it was an Allaire
> product. CF continues to be a relatively successful niche product, despite
> everyone's prediction of imminent doom for over ten years. I wonder how
> many
> people'll be using RoR in ten years. I wonder what Microsoft will have
> replaced ASP.NET with in ten years. Whatever happened to poor old
> "classic"
> ASP, anyway?
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>
> WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
> http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/
>
> 

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Looking for a developer...

[Nate Willard]

Hi everyone,

A client of mine is looking for a coldfusion developer
to re-engineer their site. The design is already
underway and being handled by an agency. 

The project at a high-level entails coding the site
from scratch and implementing a CMS. 

If interested, please email me directly with your
available timing and rate. 

Thanks


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RE: Need some procedural / technical advice...

[Dennis Powers]

>> "I looked at the data and found what looked
>> like Chinese characters in some of the fields that caused errors.  

>> However, they just provide scripts to build
>> tables and tab-delimited text data files.

Automated imports relay on clean properly formatted data or else a larger
amount of error checking plus human intervention.  

We ran into this with a client that was receiving used car data via FTP.
Since we couldn't anticipate every error that was submitted and often times
although the data was formatted correctly it was incorrect (example: "Color:
4Wheel Drive") we fixed what we could but left the final choice to the user.


Best Regards,

Dennis Powers
UXB Internet - A website design and Hosting Company
690 Wolcott Road
P.O. Box 6029
Wolcott, CT  06716
Tel: (203)879-2844
http://www.uxbinternet.com/
http://www.uxb.net/



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Re: Java-Coldfusion conversion

[Mark Mandel]

What version of CF are you on?

Mark

On Feb 8, 2008 10:49 AM, Ankush Khurana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> I have run into a huge issue and I need your help ASAP. I need to make the
> following JAVA code happen in CF.
>
> public static final String componentFile = "config/client.xml";
> String[] compArgs = new String[1];
> compArgs[0] = componentFile;
> FrameworkManager.main(compArgs);
> MessageFactory mf = (MessageFactory) FrameworkManager.getComponent(
> MessageFactory.ROLE);
>
> FrameworkManager and MessageFactory are being imported. they are in .JAR
> files provided by the customer. I just cannot get the "main" to  get
> executed, foget about moving forward.
>
> Can you help please?
>
> Thanks.
> Ankush
>
> 

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Java-Coldfusion conversion

[Ankush Khurana]

Hi,
I have run into a huge issue and I need your help ASAP. I need to make the 
following JAVA code happen in CF.

public static final String componentFile = "config/client.xml";
String[] compArgs = new String[1];
compArgs[0] = componentFile;
FrameworkManager.main(compArgs);
MessageFactory mf = (MessageFactory) 
FrameworkManager.getComponent(MessageFactory.ROLE);

FrameworkManager and MessageFactory are being imported. they are in .JAR files 
provided by the customer. I just cannot get the "main" to  get executed, foget 
about moving forward. 

Can you help please?

Thanks.
Ankush 

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Brad Wood]

> No, I'm pretty sure it was introduced in 4.x. I seem to recall it was
> 4.0.1, but I'm not entirely sure. 

I bet Ben Forta could tell us half asleep with both eyes closed.  He's a
master of random CF version history factoids.  :)

~Brad

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Beyond Captcha

[Mik Muller]

The problem I have with standardized anti-spam / captcha type form techniques 
is that it standardized the technology the spammers have to overcome -- 
allowing them to potentially leverage their efforts across a great many 
websites.  If everyone took the time to write a custom script or technology the 
spammers would pull their hair out trying to deal with all these varying 
methodologies, and who knows, eventually they may give up and go into 
chiropracty.

Mik


At 02:19 PM 2/7/2008, Billy Cox wrote:
>It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
>will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons saying
>'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.
>
>Does anyone want to speculate on what will replace/kill Captcha? (it can't
>happen too soon) Does anyone love Captcha and hope that it is the better
>mousetrap?
>
>p.s. I posted this question to CF-community, but I got no responses since
>they are embroiled in other more interesting topics right now...
> 
> 
>Billy Cox
>Old World Spices
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Michael Muller
Admin, MontagueMA.net Website
work (413) 863-0030
cell (413) 320-5336
skype: michaelBmuller
http://www.MontagueMA.net

Eschew Obfuscation




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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[William Seiter]

Yes, Cfscript in 4.0 released Nov 1998...  still over 9 years ago


-- 
William E. Seiter
 
Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
Enter passkey: goldengrove
 
Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
http://William.Seiter.com

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:18 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

> Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't CFSCRIPT been around 
> since CF 3 (1997)

No, I'm pretty sure it was introduced in 4.x. I seem to recall it was 4.0.1,
but I'm not entirely sure. The ability to write functions in CFSCRIPT wasn't
introduced until CF 5, though.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software


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RE: VerifyClient() throws exception that I don't understand...

[Dave Watts]

> So I follow the security guide and use verfiyClient() as 
> auggested in CF8 Ajax programming rules and techniques -> 
> Improving security: 
> http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?cont
> ent=ajaxdata_11.html#1156357
> 
> I got the following exception but I have no idea what I did wrong.
> 
> 
> Client verification failure.
> You must have a valid login to access this page.
> 
> The error occuried in XXX.cfm line x
> 
> (where x is the line I have 

You won't be able to run this page directly, if you have this, I think. It
will only let you run the page from your AJAX call. If your AJAX call
invokes a CFC method, you'd have to use the VERIFYCLIENT attribute in your
CFFUNCTION tag instead.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't CFSCRIPT been around 
> since CF 3 (1997)

No, I'm pretty sure it was introduced in 4.x. I seem to recall it was 4.0.1,
but I'm not entirely sure. The ability to write functions in CFSCRIPT wasn't
introduced until CF 5, though.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Todd Rafferty]

On Feb 7, 2008 5:38 PM, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> CFC's are largely a new language that was totally not available in 4.5 and
> so are functions.  I don't remember when CFSCRIPT was added, but that's
> pretty much a new language.
>

If you can run a CF 4.5 site that contains mostly includes, modules and
custom tags on a CF8 box, then there's seriously something wrong with the
code. =)
-- 
http://www.web-rat.com/


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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Todd Rafferty]

Er.. I meant to say, if you "can't" - sorry... distracted by the better
half.

On Feb 7, 2008 6:05 PM, Todd Rafferty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Feb 7, 2008 5:38 PM, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > CFC's are largely a new language that was totally not available in 4.5and
> > so are functions.  I don't remember when CFSCRIPT was added, but that's
> > pretty much a new language.
> >
>
> If you can run a CF 4.5 site that contains mostly includes, modules and
> custom tags on a CF8 box, then there's seriously something wrong with the
> code. =)
> --
> http://www.web-rat.com/




-- 
http://www.web-rat.com/


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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[William Seiter]

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't CFSCRIPT been around since CF 3 (1997)

>CFC's are largely a new language that was totally not available in 4.5 and
>so are functions.  I don't remember when CFSCRIPT was added, but that's
>pretty much a new language.  

-- 
William E. Seiter
 
Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
Enter passkey: goldengrove
 
Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
http://William.Seiter.com



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VerifyClient() throws exception that I don't understand...

[henry ho]

So I follow the security guide and use verfiyClient() as auggested in CF8 Ajax 
programming rules and techniques -> Improving security: 
http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?content=ajaxdata_11.html#1156357

I got the following exception but I have no idea what I did wrong.


Client verification failure.
You must have a valid login to access this page.

The error occuried in XXX.cfm line x

(where x is the line I have 



Any idea what does this mean?  Valid login?  I use my own login mechanism.  I 
tried cfloginuser, but it won't work either.  I have already set 
this.sessionManagement = true in Application.cfc, the only prereq. of calling 
verfiyClient()... 

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> Largely compatible does not mean compatible.  I had to make a 
> bunch of changes just upgrading from 7 to 8.  

I'm sorry to hear that. However, the vast majority of syntax is the same,
and there are plenty of CF applications written for 5 and earlier that will
simply run, as is, on CF 8. And, of course, there's a huge difference
between "making a bunch of changes" and REWRITING YOUR ENTIRE APPLICATION.

> Are you saying that you can't run classic asp sites on IIS 6/7?

I'm saying that Microsoft created a CF competitor, found it wanting, and
replaced it with something completely different. People who invested their
time and effort learning classic ASP had to essentially throw that knowledge
away to build new applications with the new tools Microsoft provided.
Overnight, Microsoft turned the value of knowing ASP into something like the
value of knowing COBOL - great for maintaining applications, not so great
for building new applications. I guess those ASP people could ask for their
money back, though.

That is obviously not the case with CF. There are new things to know about
CF 8, of course, but you write CFQUERY, CFOUTPUT, etc the same in CF 8 as
you would in CF 3. I've been teaching the official CF curriculum since CF 3.
It's amazing how much of it hasn't changed!

> CFC's are largely a new language that was totally not 
> available in 4.5 and so are functions.  I don't remember when 
> CFSCRIPT was added, but that's pretty much a new language.

The addition of new features has nothing to do with continued support of
existing features. To use any of these new features, you can integrate new
code into your existing code base at your own pace. If you have a classic
ASP application, and you want to add some nifty ASP.NET functionality (user
controls, code-behind, etc) you have to REWRITE YOUR ENTIRE APPLICATION. If
you fail to see the difference, you are either blind or you bill by the
hour.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:32 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> 
> > I would guess the same thing that happened to CF 4.5, which I
> > would consider to be the ASP classic of those days.  It got
> > upgraded to newer and better things.
> 
> CFML written for a 4.5 server is largely compatible with CF 8. I just
> upgraded a CF 4.5 server to CF 8. "Classic" ASP doesn't use the same
> languages as ASP.NET.
> 

Largely compatible does not mean compatible.  I had to make a bunch of
changes just upgrading from 7 to 8.  

Are you saying that you can't run classic asp sites on IIS 6/7?

CFC's are largely a new language that was totally not available in 4.5 and
so are functions.  I don't remember when CFSCRIPT was added, but that's
pretty much a new language.  

Russ



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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> I would guess the same thing that happened to CF 4.5, which I 
> would consider to be the ASP classic of those days.  It got 
> upgraded to newer and better things.

CFML written for a 4.5 server is largely compatible with CF 8. I just
upgraded a CF 4.5 server to CF 8. "Classic" ASP doesn't use the same
languages as ASP.NET.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:19 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

---snip---
> 
> I don't know why I bother responding to these threads, though. People have
> been griping about CF pricing/marketing/evangelism since it was an Allaire
> product. CF continues to be a relatively successful niche product, despite
> everyone's prediction of imminent doom for over ten years. I wonder how
> many
> people'll be using RoR in ten years. I wonder what Microsoft will have
> replaced ASP.NET with in ten years. Whatever happened to poor old
> "classic"
> ASP, anyway?


I would guess the same thing that happened to CF 4.5, which I would consider
to be the ASP classic of those days.  It got upgraded to newer and better
things. 

Russ


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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> You keep saying that Adobe is targeting the enterprise.  Most 
> enterprises I know are not using ColdFusion, and are using 
> .NET because .Net is more "enterprisey".  If they have money 
> and want to invest in the JAVA technology, they will go for 
> something like Websphere. 

I didn't say they were successfully targeting the enterprise - although I
think they are, based on the sales I've seen - or that most enterprises are
using CF - I don't ever expect to see CF be the dominant web application
server. I said they're targeting the enterprise. I think that's fairly
self-evident, based on their pricing model. Again, though, it doesn't really
matter whether it's the dominant technology, to Adobe - the only thing that
matters to Adobe is whether they're maximizing their profit.

And, for what it's worth, I've seen several environments with CF on
WebSphere.

> ColdFusion is just not an enterprise ready technology, and it 
> won't be until they at least support x64.  

Very few enterprises are using x64 for production application servers, as
far as I can tell. Most enterprises, again as far as I can tell, are not
early adopters. The enterprises I'm working with, that are using CF, would
disagree with your characterization of CF as not "enterprise-ready". Your
observations may be different from mine, of course.

> ColdFusion is best aimed at SMBs IMHO.  They are the ones 
> that can make the most use of it, and they are the ones that 
> I feel make up the bulk of Adobe's revenues for Cf.

Again, this is a matter of your opinion. Your opinion (and mine, for that
matter) are irrelevant, since neither of us are responsible for CF pricing
and licensing at Adobe.

I don't know why I bother responding to these threads, though. People have
been griping about CF pricing/marketing/evangelism since it was an Allaire
product. CF continues to be a relatively successful niche product, despite
everyone's prediction of imminent doom for over ten years. I wonder how many
people'll be using RoR in ten years. I wonder what Microsoft will have
replaced ASP.NET with in ten years. Whatever happened to poor old "classic"
ASP, anyway?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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Re: brain dead

[C S]

>Absolutely right, good way to be sure of that is to use DateDiff() as it
>specifically compares the date unit you want which is days in this case:
> ..
>Don't have to fiddle with the dates that way.

True, but functions can mess with the indexes.  For that reason I usually use 
CreateODBCDate with

WHERE  ColumnName >= #StartDate#
ANDColumnName < #TheDay_AFTER_TheEndDate# 

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Matt Quackenbush]

On Feb 7, 2008 3:26 PM, Dave Watts wrote:

> > So, what is Adobe doing so the freelance developers like me
> > have MORE customers that ask Coldfusion by name?
>
> It isn't Adobe's job to make you successful at your business. That's your
> job.
>
> Personally, I would love to see Adobe doing all sorts of stuff like you
> suggest. I'd love to see them give CF away. My company provides CF
> training,
> among other things. But I don't expect Adobe to run their business to
> benefit me, and I give them the benefit of the doubt that they've done
> their
> best to maximize their own profits.
>

Okay, I've stayed out of this ludicrous discussion until the above post came
through.  Dave, preach on my friend!  I could not possibly have stated it as
well as you just did.  Thank you!  :-)


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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:26 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> 
> > The more small-biz/enterprise ask CF by name equals The more
> > jobs are for CF developers equals The more developers are to
> > take on CF (versus PHP,RoR,.NET) equals The more small-biz
> > ask CF by name equals The more Adobe sells CF servers
> 
> This is not necessarily true. Especially the last part. If you're using
> shared hosting, it's not necessarily the case that more shared hosting
> clients means more CF server licenses. It might be very likely in many
> cases, though, I guess.
> 
> But even if it is true, it's not necessarily relevant to Adobe. What's
> relevant to Adobe - or any company selling any product - is to maximize
> profits on the products they sell. If that means selling 100 copies at $1
> million apiece, or selling 1 million copies at $100 each, so be it.
> 
> Now, unless people at Adobe are throwing darts at a pricing chart while
> blindfolded, they've presumably spent some time figuring out elasticity of
> demand, support costs per product sale, etc. And, they've concluded that
> they're better off targeting the enterprise. You may agree or disagree,
> but
> pricing their products is their prerogative.
> 

You keep saying that Adobe is targeting the enterprise.  Most enterprises I
know are not using ColdFusion, and are using .NET because .Net is more
"enterprisey".  If they have money and want to invest in the JAVA
technology, they will go for something like Websphere. 

ColdFusion is just not an enterprise ready technology, and it won't be until
they at least support x64.  

ColdFusion is best aimed at SMBs IMHO.  They are the ones that can make the
most use of it, and they are the ones that I feel make up the bulk of
Adobe's revenues for Cf. 

Russ




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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> The more small-biz/enterprise ask CF by name equals The more 
> jobs are for CF developers equals The more developers are to 
> take on CF (versus PHP,RoR,.NET) equals The more small-biz 
> ask CF by name equals The more Adobe sells CF servers

This is not necessarily true. Especially the last part. If you're using
shared hosting, it's not necessarily the case that more shared hosting
clients means more CF server licenses. It might be very likely in many
cases, though, I guess.

But even if it is true, it's not necessarily relevant to Adobe. What's
relevant to Adobe - or any company selling any product - is to maximize
profits on the products they sell. If that means selling 100 copies at $1
million apiece, or selling 1 million copies at $100 each, so be it.

Now, unless people at Adobe are throwing darts at a pricing chart while
blindfolded, they've presumably spent some time figuring out elasticity of
demand, support costs per product sale, etc. And, they've concluded that
they're better off targeting the enterprise. You may agree or disagree, but
pricing their products is their prerogative.

I don't think Adobe is interested in directly competing with free software.
I suspect they believe there's not much profit there.

> So, what is Adobe doing so the freelance developers like me 
> have MORE customers that ask Coldfusion by name?

It isn't Adobe's job to make you successful at your business. That's your
job.

Personally, I would love to see Adobe doing all sorts of stuff like you
suggest. I'd love to see them give CF away. My company provides CF training,
among other things. But I don't expect Adobe to run their business to
benefit me, and I give them the benefit of the doubt that they've done their
best to maximize their own profits.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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Report Builder - table of contents

[Raj Vijay]

Thank you



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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Brad Wood]

Even though there are objections, I would be willing to accept a CF
class requiring the developer edition to be installed on all lab
machines.  Keep in mind though that installation and configuration of
the application server might be outside of the scope of the curriculum
for that class if is an entry level course.

Regardless of the classroom talk though, my last post was more targeted
at the college students who are going to spend four years experimenting
in their dorm room writing apps in every language they can get their
hands on.  These are the resume-holding people that graduate and go out
into the world and help drive up or down the numbers of available
programmers for a particular language.  When I was in college learning
how to build web apps for the first time, I wanted something I could
actually put on the internet and tell my mom to go look at.  ColdFusion
developer edition would not have been that answer for me.  Without my
friend letting me use his server I would have certainly used my personal
site on the school server which only offered Perl and PHP.  Why?
Because they were free.

I experimented with a number of Microsoft apps while I was in college
and graduated with some knowledge of them.  Why?  Because Microsoft
courted my school (along with any other educational institution) and
offered tons of free _fully functional_ Microsoft software for me to
play with for the duration of my student-hood. 

If Adobe doesn't want to do that, I understand--  It is their decision.
But, I gotta' say as bitter-sweet as my feelings are for Microsoft, I
think that was a smart move on their part.  I really, really want to see
large scale adoption of CF, Flex, Air, etc.  That's why I am in favor of
anything which will help that.

~Brad

-Original Message-
From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:21 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

As a student you typically do not have to pay to be able to put up a
hosted
PHP page.  Most universities give their students free web accounts and
most
of those accounts have access to PHP.  At least that has been my
experience
with three major Universities here in Texas.  There are of course
limitations to what you can do, for example I know the University of
Houston
provides the accounts, PHP, and even Oracle accounts but I do not think
they
provide a way for students to run PHP pages that connect to the Oracle
database.

I personally do not see why a class could not be taught using no more
than
the developer version of CF.  Each workstation would have it loaded up
as
would the teacher's machine.

On Feb 7, 2008 1:56 PM, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Mark Fuqua]

It is interesting, that while the developer community has been belly achin'
about prices for cf, Adobe has actually raised the price for enterprise 50%.
It might also be worth noting that cs3 web premium, which I recently
purchased (upgrade thankfully) is priced at 1600.  Considerably higher than
cf standard.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:42 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better


We have seen an official response:

http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/buy/

:)

Will

-Original Message-
From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07 February 2008 19:57
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

>
> Not anyone who's going to tell you how to run your business, no. But
> you know that Ben Forta and the rest of the product evangelists are
> plugged into this list and other well-known CF resources, so
> presumably someone at Adobe has heard all of these criticisms before.
>


If all of this has been heard before, should've we have seen an official
response to this somewhere?  I remember at the last CFUnited people brought
up that CF should be marketed better to universities.   And they're like yea
yea we should...  but they never did anything about it to my knowledge.

Russ






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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> That would require a classroom with powerful enough computers 
> that can run CF.  That's a pretty large investment.  I know 
> in my university, all the students have laptops, so it would 
> be a lot easier to have a shared server and have all of the 
> students put their work there.  

CF will run just fine on any laptop made in the last few years. I'm able to
run CF on my laptop, which has a Core Solo processor, 1 GB of RAM, and
Vista.

> It would also teach them more about what goes on in the real 
> world ...

In the real world, people buy CF licenses. One CF Standard license would be
sufficient if you really needed a shared server. I'm not sure what the EDU
pricing is for that, but I imagine it's not too expensive - it'll probably
be cheaper than the dedicated server hardware needed.

> ... as most developers develop straight on the server, and 
> a lot of times straight on the productions server.

Because people develop on production servers? That's a lousy justification
for classroom setup.

> Having each student install CF and IIS or apache on their own 
> PC might be a bit of a pain, and laptops in general are not 
> very good choice for running CF servers, although I know some 
> people are doing it, including me.  

You don't need a separate web server for development. It's very easy to
install CF using the built-in web server.

> Those who are just taking this as a class, might not appreciate 
> their laptop slowing down because of CF though.

They could easily be taught how to manually start and stop services, I
think.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Mike Francisco]

As a freelance developer (I am sure many on this list are), my simple mind
that tells me that 'to CF or not to CF' boils down to this cycle:

The more small-biz/enterprise ask CF by name equals
The more jobs are for CF developers equals
The more developers are to take on CF (versus PHP,RoR,.NET) equals
The more small-biz ask CF by name equals
The more Adobe sells CF servers

But guess what? There's not a whole lot of small-biz/enterprise asking CF by
name. And I don't think anyone here will dispute that.  If you check out
craigslist, dice, monster, etc... demand for PHP developers far out number
demand for CF developers. If you dispute that, you are in denial.

So, what is Adobe doing so the freelance developers like me have MORE
customers that ask Coldfusion by name?



> That might be true in many cases. However, you're essentially asking them
> to
> give something away that they're selling now. Generally, the way you
> influence prices is by choosing to buy or not buy a product. If you tell
> Adobe that they should lower the price, or give more product away, and you
> continue to buy the product yourself, you probably won't convince them to
> change their pricing model.
> 


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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Will Swain]

We have seen an official response:

http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/buy/

:)

Will

-Original Message-
From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 07 February 2008 19:57
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

> 
> Not anyone who's going to tell you how to run your business, no. But 
> you know that Ben Forta and the rest of the product evangelists are 
> plugged into this list and other well-known CF resources, so 
> presumably someone at Adobe has heard all of these criticisms before.
> 


If all of this has been heard before, should've we have seen an official
response to this somewhere?  I remember at the last CFUnited people brought
up that CF should be marketed better to universities.   And they're like yea
yea we should...  but they never did anything about it to my knowledge. 

Russ




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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Raymond Camden]

On Feb 7, 2008 2:29 PM, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That would require a classroom with powerful enough computers that can run
> CF.  That's a pretty large investment.  I know in my university, all the
> students have laptops, so it would be a lot easier to have a shared server
> and have all of the students put their work there.  It would also teach them
> more about what goes on in the real world, as most developers develop
> straight on the server, and a lot of times straight on the productions
> server.

CF runs pretty well on even older machines. Remember this is just one
person hitting one app server.

>
> Having each student install CF and IIS or apache on their own PC might be a
> bit of a pain, and laptops in general are not very good choice for running
> CF servers, although I know some people are doing it, including me.  Those
> who are just taking this as a class, might not appreciate their laptop
> slowing down because of CF though.

Um, if they are in school learning to be a web developer, than frankly
they need to deal with it. The same would apply to PHP as well.

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Todd Rafferty]

Setup a start/stop bat script to turn things off when you're not in class?
I think server setup SHOULD be part of the class IMHO.

On Feb 7, 2008 3:29 PM, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Having each student install CF and IIS or apache on their own PC might be
> a
> bit of a pain, and laptops in general are not very good choice for running
> CF servers, although I know some people are doing it, including me.  Those
> who are just taking this as a class, might not appreciate their laptop
> slowing down because of CF though.
>


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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> If all of this has been heard before, should've we have seen 
> an official response to this somewhere?

What would you expect their response to be, other than "we'll consider
this?"

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
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WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

That would require a classroom with powerful enough computers that can run
CF.  That's a pretty large investment.  I know in my university, all the
students have laptops, so it would be a lot easier to have a shared server
and have all of the students put their work there.  It would also teach them
more about what goes on in the real world, as most developers develop
straight on the server, and a lot of times straight on the productions
server.  

Having each student install CF and IIS or apache on their own PC might be a
bit of a pain, and laptops in general are not very good choice for running
CF servers, although I know some people are doing it, including me.  Those
who are just taking this as a class, might not appreciate their laptop
slowing down because of CF though. 

Russ

> -Original Message-
> From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:21 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> 
> As a student you typically do not have to pay to be able to put up a
> hosted
> PHP page.  Most universities give their students free web accounts and
> most
> of those accounts have access to PHP.  At least that has been my
> experience
> with three major Universities here in Texas.  There are of course
> limitations to what you can do, for example I know the University of
> Houston
> provides the accounts, PHP, and even Oracle accounts but I do not think
> they
> provide a way for students to run PHP pages that connect to the Oracle
> database.
> 
> I personally do not see why a class could not be taught using no more than
> the developer version of CF.  Each workstation would have it loaded up as
> would the teacher's machine.
> 
> On Feb 7, 2008 1:56 PM, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Flex is client side technology. Guess what - the "client" for CF,
> > which would be you running CF on your own machine, is also free.
> > Shoot, as it stands, CF is "more" free as you don't have to be a
> > student to run it on your own machine for nothing.
> >
> > Now your argument stating that you would only learn it if you could
> > host it - I'm not sure I'd say thats a common belief - but you have to
> > pay for PHP hosting as well.
> >
> > On Feb 7, 2008 12:03 PM, Brad Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On a related note, according to James Ward from Adobe (who visited my
> > > user group last night) the educational pricing for Flex is free.
> > >
> > > I would definitely be in favor of similar educational pricing for CF.
> I
> > > learned CF in college in my spare time, but NOT because of the
> developer
> > > edition but rather due to a friend who owned a CF server and let me
> host
> > > their for free.  If it hadn't been for that there's no way I would
> have
> > > bothered with CF when I couldn't actually use it for real on my
> personal
> > > site to experiment with.  I would have probably gone over to Perl or
> > > PHP.
> > >
> > > ~Brad
> > >
> > --
> >
> >
> ==
> =
> > Raymond Camden, Camden Media
> >
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
> > AOL IM : cfjedimaster
> >
> > Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
> >
> >
> 
> 

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

> 
> Not anyone who's going to tell you how to run your business, no. But you
> know that Ben Forta and the rest of the product evangelists are plugged
> into
> this list and other well-known CF resources, so presumably someone at
> Adobe
> has heard all of these criticisms before.
> 


If all of this has been heard before, should've we have seen an official
response to this somewhere?  I remember at the last CFUnited people brought
up that CF should be marketed better to universities.   And they're like yea
yea we should...  but they never did anything about it to my knowledge. 

Russ


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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Aaron Rouse]

As a student you typically do not have to pay to be able to put up a hosted
PHP page.  Most universities give their students free web accounts and most
of those accounts have access to PHP.  At least that has been my experience
with three major Universities here in Texas.  There are of course
limitations to what you can do, for example I know the University of Houston
provides the accounts, PHP, and even Oracle accounts but I do not think they
provide a way for students to run PHP pages that connect to the Oracle
database.

I personally do not see why a class could not be taught using no more than
the developer version of CF.  Each workstation would have it loaded up as
would the teacher's machine.

On Feb 7, 2008 1:56 PM, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Flex is client side technology. Guess what - the "client" for CF,
> which would be you running CF on your own machine, is also free.
> Shoot, as it stands, CF is "more" free as you don't have to be a
> student to run it on your own machine for nothing.
>
> Now your argument stating that you would only learn it if you could
> host it - I'm not sure I'd say thats a common belief - but you have to
> pay for PHP hosting as well.
>
> On Feb 7, 2008 12:03 PM, Brad Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On a related note, according to James Ward from Adobe (who visited my
> > user group last night) the educational pricing for Flex is free.
> >
> > I would definitely be in favor of similar educational pricing for CF.  I
> > learned CF in college in my spare time, but NOT because of the developer
> > edition but rather due to a friend who owned a CF server and let me host
> > their for free.  If it hadn't been for that there's no way I would have
> > bothered with CF when I couldn't actually use it for real on my personal
> > site to experiment with.  I would have probably gone over to Perl or
> > PHP.
> >
> > ~Brad
> >
> --
>
> ===
> Raymond Camden, Camden Media
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
> AOL IM : cfjedimaster
>
> Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org
>
> 

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

Or perhaps create a new license type - academic vs educational, which would
let you use the server as part of the classroom, but not to host the
university's own website for example.  

Russ

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:17 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> 
> > Another important thing about running a business is listening
> > to your customers.  If enough developers feel that this is a
> > good idea and make their voice heard, perhaps Adobe will
> > reconsider it.
> 
> That might be true in many cases. However, you're essentially asking them
> to
> give something away that they're selling now. Generally, the way you
> influence prices is by choosing to buy or not buy a product. If you tell
> Adobe that they should lower the price, or give more product away, and you
> continue to buy the product yourself, you probably won't convince them to
> change their pricing model.
> 
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> 
> Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
> http://training.figleaf.com/
> 
> WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
> http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/
> 
> 

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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Peter Donahue]

Good afternoon everyone,

Anyone who uses a screen reader will gladly welcome the demise of
CAPTCHA as the images cannot be read by these programs making Web sites that
use them inaccessible by persons who are blind or who have another print
disability.

Peter Donahue

- Original Message - 
From: "Billy Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: Beyond Captcha


It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons saying
'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.

Does anyone want to speculate on what will replace/kill Captcha? (it can't
happen too soon) Does anyone love Captcha and hope that it is the better
mousetrap?

p.s. I posted this question to CF-community, but I got no responses since
they are embroiled in other more interesting topics right now...


Billy Cox
Old World Spices
[EMAIL PROTECTED]









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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> Another important thing about running a business is listening 
> to your customers.  If enough developers feel that this is a 
> good idea and make their voice heard, perhaps Adobe will 
> reconsider it.

That might be true in many cases. However, you're essentially asking them to
give something away that they're selling now. Generally, the way you
influence prices is by choosing to buy or not buy a product. If you tell
Adobe that they should lower the price, or give more product away, and you
continue to buy the product yourself, you probably won't convince them to
change their pricing model.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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RE: Beyond Captcha

[William Seiter]

Crackers and hackers use automated tools to break username/passwords on a
site.  The existence of a 'capture' system (captcha, cognitive, etc), is to
further stop them from getting through.  Admin/ User pages/ whatever is
protected by a username/ password, but is accessible on the internet.

William

-- 
William E. Seiter
 
Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
Enter passkey: goldengrove
 
Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
http://William.Seiter.com

-Original Message-
From: Matt Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:45 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Beyond Captcha

If you're dealing with an actual person, then there is probably no
stopping them. Is that what you mean by crackers / hackers?
Do you mean trying to get in admin parts of sites, or legitimate
customer account screens?
I'm not sure I understand the use case...

On Feb 7, 2008 1:37 PM, William Seiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This tag seems nice for a blogging environment or a web entry system
> (similar to the web page where you can add comments to this list at
> houseoffustion.com), but what about not just the 'spammers', what about
the
> crackers and hackers who want to gain entry to the website via a login
page?
>
> William
>
> --
> William E. Seiter
>
> Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
> Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
> Enter passkey: goldengrove
>
> Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
> http://William.Seiter.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Francisco [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:25 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Beyond Captcha
>
> I don't want to speculate, but I do know what works extremely well for my
> apps... Jake Munson's CFFormProtect
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Billy Cox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:19 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Beyond Captcha
> >
> > It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
> > will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons
> > saying
> > 'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.
>
>
> 



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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Todd Rafferty]

Heh.  You should have seen CF8's captcha when it was in beta BEFORE there
was a difficulty attribute. XD

On Feb 7, 2008 2:52 PM, Billy Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I just know that I was pissed off the first time I encountered a captcha
> that was unreadable even to human eyes.
>

-- 
http://www.web-rat.com/


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RE: Beyond Captcha

[Billy Cox]

Cool... I'll check it out.

I just know that I was pissed off the first time I encountered a captcha
that was unreadable even to human eyes.


-Original Message-
From: Matt Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:37 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Beyond Captcha


+1 on cfformprotect. Just did an install last week.
Quick.
Easy.
Transparent to user. And so far no spam.

http://cfformprotect.riaforge.org/


-- 
Matt Williams
"It's the question that drives us."



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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Todd Rafferty]

On Feb 7, 2008 2:44 PM, s. isaac dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It doesn't matter if it's visual, auditory or even cognitive as in the
> case of a word-problem. At
> some point in the not too distant future a very primitive AI will look
> at the word problem and in milliseconds spit back the answer "5" - and
> it will be correct more often than a human.
>

Agreed, then we'll be doing crazy things like "Don't answer 1 + 2 correctly"
just to try to do a little misdirection.  Bah, who cares about the future.
We'll have programs writing programs to bypass spam just as there will be
programs bypassing programs that program.

-- 
http://www.web-rat.com/


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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:56 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> 
> > If someone from adobe sat down with me and gave me some
> > constructive criticism on my business, I would definitely
> > take it under consideration.
> 
> What makes you think that, over the last ten years that people have been
> arguing about this, Allaire/Macromedia/Adobe didn't take it under
> consideration and reject it?
> 

Another important thing about running a business is listening to your
customers.  If enough developers feel that this is a good idea and make
their voice heard, perhaps Adobe will reconsider it. 

Russ


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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Raymond Camden]

Flex is client side technology. Guess what - the "client" for CF,
which would be you running CF on your own machine, is also free.
Shoot, as it stands, CF is "more" free as you don't have to be a
student to run it on your own machine for nothing.

Now your argument stating that you would only learn it if you could
host it - I'm not sure I'd say thats a common belief - but you have to
pay for PHP hosting as well.

On Feb 7, 2008 12:03 PM, Brad Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On a related note, according to James Ward from Adobe (who visited my
> user group last night) the educational pricing for Flex is free.
>
> I would definitely be in favor of similar educational pricing for CF.  I
> learned CF in college in my spare time, but NOT because of the developer
> edition but rather due to a friend who owned a CF server and let me host
> their for free.  If it hadn't been for that there's no way I would have
> bothered with CF when I couldn't actually use it for real on my personal
> site to experiment with.  I would have probably gone over to Perl or
> PHP.
>
> ~Brad
>
-- 
===
Raymond Camden, Camden Media

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster

Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

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RE: Beyond Captcha

[William Seiter]

Your examples aside, the below paragraph was intended to point out that all
possible users need to be considered for a 'better mouse trap', not just the
developer's notions.  Being hearing impaired yourself, I would have expected
that you would understand the need to adhere to Section 508 guidelines as
well as those issues that may not be addressed in Section 508, as opposed to
taking my point personally, rather than an overall suggestion to all.


>Why is being able to read an issue for the deaf again?  Being hearing
>impaired myself, I'm kind of stumped on that one.  In fact, how is reading
>a simple text on a page an issue for anyone that can't hear or is color
>blind?  If you're worried about the color blind / deaf community not being
>able to pass a simple question, then I don't know what to say to that.


-- 
William E. Seiter
 
Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
Enter passkey: goldengrove
 
Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
http://William.Seiter.com

-Original Message-
From: Todd Rafferty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:42 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Beyond Captcha

First, it was a quick example off the top of my head so sorry I screwed that
one up - silly me.  Next time I'll point to
http://simplebits.com/contact/instead.  His question is "Is fire hot
or cold?"  Second, Ok?  Your point?
It doesn't invalidate what I've seen already.

The blind, I can see things being an issue, but if a screen reader can read
the page and reads the question correctly, not sure how this is an issue.

Why is being able to read an issue for the deaf again?  Being hearing
impaired myself, I'm kind of stumped on that one.  In fact, how is reading a
simple text on a page an issue for anyone that can't hear or is color
blind?  If you're worried about the color blind / deaf community not being
able to pass a simple question, then I don't know what to say to that.

On Feb 7, 2008 2:32 PM, William Seiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Unfortunately both of those examples can be seen as biased.
>
> The first one implies only one of them is true, when both are true fire
> and
> ice both can give burns.
>
> The second one implies that the reader knows enough about math to do a
> simple word problem.
>
> The enduring problem with a form protection system that interacts with the
> user is that it has to be useable by all users.  The highly intelligent,
> the
> blissfully unaware, the blind, the deaf, the colorblind, the average as
> well
> as the developer.
>
> William




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Test - Please ignore

[C S]

Test 

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RE: Beyond Captcha

[Dave Watts]

> This tag seems nice for a blogging environment or a web entry 
> system (similar to the web page where you can add comments to 
> this list at houseoffustion.com), but what about not just the 
> 'spammers', what about the crackers and hackers who want to 
> gain entry to the website via a login page?

That's an entirely different problem. A CAPTCHA won't help with that either.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Matt Williams]

If you're dealing with an actual person, then there is probably no
stopping them. Is that what you mean by crackers / hackers?
Do you mean trying to get in admin parts of sites, or legitimate
customer account screens?
I'm not sure I understand the use case...

On Feb 7, 2008 1:37 PM, William Seiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This tag seems nice for a blogging environment or a web entry system
> (similar to the web page where you can add comments to this list at
> houseoffustion.com), but what about not just the 'spammers', what about the
> crackers and hackers who want to gain entry to the website via a login page?
>
> William
>
> --
> William E. Seiter
>
> Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
> Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
> Enter passkey: goldengrove
>
> Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
> http://William.Seiter.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Francisco [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:25 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Beyond Captcha
>
> I don't want to speculate, but I do know what works extremely well for my
> apps... Jake Munson's CFFormProtect
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Billy Cox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:19 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Beyond Captcha
> >
> > It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
> > will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons
> > saying
> > 'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.
>
>
> 

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Re: Beyond Captcha

[s. isaac dealey]

> The enduring problem with a form protection system that interacts
> with the user is that it has to be useable by all users.  The highly
> intelligent, the blissfully unaware, the blind, the deaf, the
> colorblind, the average as well as the developer.

The big reason I generally avoid them. Although there is also the
niggling issue that CAPTCHA however it's displayed, is gradually
becoming ineffective in general. There are already reports that show
robots being able to reverse-engineer the captcha with as yet limited
ability (i.e. it succeeds once in a while). I've already seen spam on
forums protected with captcha. As technology improves, captcha will
become less effective until the point at which humans actually have a
harder time figuring out the captcha than the robots do. There is no
system you can implement to get around this. It doesn't matter if it's
visual, auditory or even cognitive as in the case of a word-problem. At
some point in the not too distant future a very primitive AI will look
at the word problem and in milliseconds spit back the answer "5" - and
it will be correct more often than a human. 



-- 
s. isaac dealey  ^  new epoch
 isn't it time for a change? 
 ph: 503.236.3691

http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog



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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Todd Rafferty]

First, it was a quick example off the top of my head so sorry I screwed that
one up - silly me.  Next time I'll point to
http://simplebits.com/contact/instead.  His question is "Is fire hot
or cold?"  Second, Ok?  Your point?
It doesn't invalidate what I've seen already.

The blind, I can see things being an issue, but if a screen reader can read
the page and reads the question correctly, not sure how this is an issue.

Why is being able to read an issue for the deaf again?  Being hearing
impaired myself, I'm kind of stumped on that one.  In fact, how is reading a
simple text on a page an issue for anyone that can't hear or is color
blind?  If you're worried about the color blind / deaf community not being
able to pass a simple question, then I don't know what to say to that.

On Feb 7, 2008 2:32 PM, William Seiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Unfortunately both of those examples can be seen as biased.
>
> The first one implies only one of them is true, when both are true fire
> and
> ice both can give burns.
>
> The second one implies that the reader knows enough about math to do a
> simple word problem.
>
> The enduring problem with a form protection system that interacts with the
> user is that it has to be useable by all users.  The highly intelligent,
> the
> blissfully unaware, the blind, the deaf, the colorblind, the average as
> well
> as the developer.
>
> William


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RE: Beyond Captcha

[William Seiter]

This tag seems nice for a blogging environment or a web entry system
(similar to the web page where you can add comments to this list at
houseoffustion.com), but what about not just the 'spammers', what about the
crackers and hackers who want to gain entry to the website via a login page?

William

-- 
William E. Seiter
 
Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
Enter passkey: goldengrove
 
Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
http://William.Seiter.com

-Original Message-
From: Mike Francisco [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:25 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Beyond Captcha

I don't want to speculate, but I do know what works extremely well for my
apps... Jake Munson's CFFormProtect



> -Original Message-
> From: Billy Cox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:19 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Beyond Captcha
> 
> It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
> will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons
> saying
> 'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.


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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Matt Williams]

+1 on cfformprotect. Just did an install last week.
Quick.
Easy.
Transparent to user. And so far no spam.

http://cfformprotect.riaforge.org/


-- 
Matt Williams
"It's the question that drives us."

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RE: Beyond Captcha

[William Seiter]

Unfortunately both of those examples can be seen as biased.

The first one implies only one of them is true, when both are true fire and
ice both can give burns.

The second one implies that the reader knows enough about math to do a
simple word problem.

The enduring problem with a form protection system that interacts with the
user is that it has to be useable by all users.  The highly intelligent, the
blissfully unaware, the blind, the deaf, the colorblind, the average as well
as the developer.

William

-- 
William E. Seiter
 
Have you ever read a book that changed your life?
Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com
Enter passkey: goldengrove
 
Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer
http://William.Seiter.com
-Original Message-
From: Todd Rafferty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:27 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Beyond Captcha

Lately I've been seeing simple questions such as "What burns? Fire or Ice?"
and you type fire and that's the new trend.  Or, they'll do a simple math
using their string counterpart ("one hundred and two plus one = "), etc.

On Feb 7, 2008 2:19 PM, Billy Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
> will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons
> saying
> 'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.
>
> Does anyone want to speculate on what will replace/kill Captcha? (it can't
> happen too soon) Does anyone love Captcha and hope that it is the better


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RE: Beyond Captcha

[Mike Francisco]

I don't want to speculate, but I do know what works extremely well for my
apps... Jake Munson's CFFormProtect



> -Original Message-
> From: Billy Cox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:19 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Beyond Captcha
> 
> It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
> will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons
> saying
> 'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.
> 
> Does anyone want to speculate on what will replace/kill Captcha? (it can't
> happen too soon) Does anyone love Captcha and hope that it is the better
> mousetrap?
> 
> p.s. I posted this question to CF-community, but I got no responses since
> they are embroiled in other more interesting topics right now...
> 
> 
> Billy Cox
> Old World Spices
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

~|
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RE: Beyond Captcha

[Andy Matthews]

OpenID? 

-Original Message-
From: Billy Cox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:19 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Beyond Captcha

It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons saying
'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.

Does anyone want to speculate on what will replace/kill Captcha? (it can't
happen too soon) Does anyone love Captcha and hope that it is the better
mousetrap?

p.s. I posted this question to CF-community, but I got no responses since
they are embroiled in other more interesting topics right now...
 
 
Billy Cox
Old World Spices
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 






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Re: Beyond Captcha

[Todd Rafferty]

Lately I've been seeing simple questions such as "What burns? Fire or Ice?"
and you type fire and that's the new trend.  Or, they'll do a simple math
using their string counterpart ("one hundred and two plus one = "), etc.

On Feb 7, 2008 2:19 PM, Billy Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
> will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons
> saying
> 'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.
>
> Does anyone want to speculate on what will replace/kill Captcha? (it can't
> happen too soon) Does anyone love Captcha and hope that it is the better
> mousetrap?
>
> p.s. I posted this question to CF-community, but I got no responses since
> they are embroiled in other more interesting topics right now...
>
> Billy Cox
>

-- 
http://www.web-rat.com/


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Beyond Captcha

[Billy Cox]

It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe that Captcha
will soon be as rare (and just as appreciated) as those little icons saying
'this site optimized for IE 4.0'.

Does anyone want to speculate on what will replace/kill Captcha? (it can't
happen too soon) Does anyone love Captcha and hope that it is the better
mousetrap?

p.s. I posted this question to CF-community, but I got no responses since
they are embroiled in other more interesting topics right now...
 
 
Billy Cox
Old World Spices
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 




~|
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date
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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> If someone from adobe sat down with me and gave me some 
> constructive criticism on my business, I would definitely 
> take it under consideration.

What makes you think that, over the last ten years that people have been
arguing about this, Allaire/Macromedia/Adobe didn't take it under
consideration and reject it?

> Why do you know someone? 

Not anyone who's going to tell you how to run your business, no. But you
know that Ben Forta and the rest of the product evangelists are plugged into
this list and other well-known CF resources, so presumably someone at Adobe
has heard all of these criticisms before.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

If someone from adobe sat down with me and gave me some constructive
criticism on my business, I would definitely take it under consideration. 

Why do you know someone? 

Russ

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:11 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> 
> > > All the evidence we can gather points to the fact that Allaire,
> > > Macromedia and now Adobe are profitable with the ColdFusion pricing
> > > model exactly as it stands.  So, there's very little motivation to
> > > address their marketing approach.  If they were losing money on
> > > ColdFusion, I think you'd see them either doing more marketing, or
> > > dropping the product line entirely.
> >
> > If they are making good money on it, and it's mostly from the
> > enterprise sector, wouldn't it make sense to let the
> > educational institutions have it for free?  This way
> > enterprise would have a better pool of talent, and are more
> > likely to get CF/stick with CF in the coming years.
> >
> > Look everyone has to make sacrifices in order to be
> > competitive.  MS released SQL Express in response to MYSQL
> > and PostgreSQL.  Oracle released Oracle Lite.  Even though
> > this might've caused a hit for their sales of SQL Server
> > standard and workgroup, they are probably getting more sales
> > for SQL Server Enterprise, and less people moving to free platforms.
> 
> If some guy from Adobe told you how to run your business, wouldn't that be
> a
> bit presumptuous?
> 
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> 
> Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
> http://training.figleaf.com/
> 
> WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
> http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/
> 
> 

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Josh Nathanson]

> If they are making good money on it, and it's mostly from the enterprise
> sector, wouldn't it make sense to let the educational institutions have it
> for free?  This way enterprise would have a better pool of talent, and are
> more likely to get CF/stick with CF in the coming years.

I don't have any good answers as to why the owners of CF haven't done some 
of the obvious things that would improve its adoption, other than that they 
haven't been "forced" to do so.

With Macromedia and now Adobe, their success as a whole is not dependent on 
the success of CF, so I imagine they focus their marketing efforts on their 
more popular product lines.

There are only so many person-hours to go around, and I imagine that any 
product line that is profitable with essentially zero marketing effort is 
not going to have additional person-hours assigned to it.

This is probably much less frustrating for Adobe than it is for us 
developers.

-- Josh 


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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Dave Watts]

> > All the evidence we can gather points to the fact that Allaire, 
> > Macromedia and now Adobe are profitable with the ColdFusion pricing 
> > model exactly as it stands.  So, there's very little motivation to 
> > address their marketing approach.  If they were losing money on 
> > ColdFusion, I think you'd see them either doing more marketing, or 
> > dropping the product line entirely.
>
> If they are making good money on it, and it's mostly from the 
> enterprise sector, wouldn't it make sense to let the 
> educational institutions have it for free?  This way 
> enterprise would have a better pool of talent, and are more 
> likely to get CF/stick with CF in the coming years. 
> 
> Look everyone has to make sacrifices in order to be 
> competitive.  MS released SQL Express in response to MYSQL 
> and PostgreSQL.  Oracle released Oracle Lite.  Even though 
> this might've caused a hit for their sales of SQL Server 
> standard and workgroup, they are probably getting more sales 
> for SQL Server Enterprise, and less people moving to free platforms.

If some guy from Adobe told you how to run your business, wouldn't that be a
bit presumptuous?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

~|
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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Brad Wood]

On a related note, according to James Ward from Adobe (who visited my
user group last night) the educational pricing for Flex is free.

I would definitely be in favor of similar educational pricing for CF.  I
learned CF in college in my spare time, but NOT because of the developer
edition but rather due to a friend who owned a CF server and let me host
their for free.  If it hadn't been for that there's no way I would have
bothered with CF when I couldn't actually use it for real on my personal
site to experiment with.  I would have probably gone over to Perl or
PHP.

~Brad

-Original Message-
From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:55 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

If they are making good money on it, and it's mostly from the enterprise
sector, wouldn't it make sense to let the educational institutions have
it
for free?  This way enterprise would have a better pool of talent, and
are
more likely to get CF/stick with CF in the coming years. 

Look everyone has to make sacrifices in order to be competitive.  MS
released SQL Express in response to MYSQL and PostgreSQL.  Oracle
released
Oracle Lite.  Even though this might've caused a hit for their sales of
SQL
Server standard and workgroup, they are probably getting more sales for
SQL
Server Enterprise, and less people moving to free platforms. 

~|
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RE: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Russ]

If they are making good money on it, and it's mostly from the enterprise
sector, wouldn't it make sense to let the educational institutions have it
for free?  This way enterprise would have a better pool of talent, and are
more likely to get CF/stick with CF in the coming years. 

Look everyone has to make sacrifices in order to be competitive.  MS
released SQL Express in response to MYSQL and PostgreSQL.  Oracle released
Oracle Lite.  Even though this might've caused a hit for their sales of SQL
Server standard and workgroup, they are probably getting more sales for SQL
Server Enterprise, and less people moving to free platforms. 


Russ


> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:33 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better
> 
> > >Well it's a bit hard for CF, because of the pricing model.  CF is
> priced
> > >per
> >>Server, meanwhile all the other technologies you mention can be hosted
> for
> >>(relatively) free.  .NET makes it up by selling more Windows Server
> >>licenses, and PHP and RoR are free.
> 
> All the evidence we can gather points to the fact that Allaire, Macromedia
> and now Adobe are profitable with the ColdFusion pricing model exactly as
> it
> stands.  So, there's very little motivation to address their marketing
> approach.  If they were losing money on ColdFusion, I think you'd see them
> either doing more marketing, or dropping the product line entirely.
> 
> -- Josh
> 
> 
> 

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Re: ColdFusion: Some People Just Don't Know Any Better

[Josh Nathanson]

> >Well it's a bit hard for CF, because of the pricing model.  CF is priced 
> >per
>>Server, meanwhile all the other technologies you mention can be hosted for
>>(relatively) free.  .NET makes it up by selling more Windows Server
>>licenses, and PHP and RoR are free.

All the evidence we can gather points to the fact that Allaire, Macromedia 
and now Adobe are profitable with the ColdFusion pricing model exactly as it 
stands.  So, there's very little motivation to address their marketing 
approach.  If they were losing money on ColdFusion, I think you'd see them 
either doing more marketing, or dropping the product line entirely.

-- Josh


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Re: converting Word doc to text with cf8 on the fly?

[cfSearching]

Don L-2 wrote:
> 
> I understand Word doc is binary... thanks for the note though.  
> 

Well, my point was more that you will need to use some other component, be
it POI, COM or something else to convert the document to text. AFAIK there
is no built in CF tag or function that can convert MS Word documents to
text. 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/converting-Word-doc-to-text-with-cf8-on-the-fly--tp15294972p15338286.html
Sent from the Cold Fusion - Technical mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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RE: Missing Template Handler Strangeness....

[Dave Watts]

> I have a custom missing template set up, but something either 
> in the application or with CF7 keeps hitting it.
> 
> I know this because I have the missing template write to a CF 
> log file. Everytime I refresh the logs, this log file keeps growing.
> 
> Almost like something within the application keep repeatedly 
> hitting the page. I've cut the page right back to just the 
> logging in order to rule out any external coding issues.

You should be able to log the name of the file that CF is looking for. It's
a member of the exception structure (CFCATCH.MissingFileName). You should
also be able to log the name of the file that's looking for the file.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Training: Adobe/Google/Paperthin Certified Partners
http://training.figleaf.com/

WebManiacs 2008: the ultimate conference for CF/Flex/AIR developers!
http://www.webmaniacsconference.com/

~|
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date
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RE: CFExchange Permission Problems

[Ryan, Terrence]

Basically, do the logs give a reason for the denial?

As for the service account, you can pass in a username/password AND a mailbox. 
The username doesn't have the username for the mailbox owner.  As long as the 
service account has permissions for the mailbox, then it should work. 

What kind of filtering do you want? 

Terrence Ryan
I.T. Director
Wharton Computing and Information Technology   
E-mail:     [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From: Sehlmeyer, Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:21 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFExchange Permission Problems

I do have access to the logs, let me know specifically what you're looking for 
and where and I can find it.

I'm using the users' credentials to login to the mailbox.  If I could use a 
single service account and just tell it which mailbox to look in that would 
work better, any suggestions on how to filter this scenario?


Jason
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: Ryan, Terrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:00 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFExchange Permission Problems

Do you have access to the exchange logs?

Also, are you using a service account, or the user's actual credentials?

Terrence Ryan
I.T. Director
Wharton Computing and Information Technology   
E-mail:     [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: Sehlmeyer, Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CFExchange Permission Problems

Any Idea why all of my users can access their mailbox by using a
cfexchange connection except one?

 

I can OWA with the name/password that is used in the connection string
and everything works fine, but Coldfusion complains of invalid access
when trying to access the users.

 

Access to the Exchange server denied. 

Ensure that the user name and password are correct.

 

  

 



 




  

 

Jason

[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

 









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RE: Expires after 10 days

[Bobby Hartsfield]

Just give it an enddate with a datetime data type. When you add the record,
make the endadate = #createODCDateTime(dateadd('d', 10, now()))# then:

select whatever from table where #createODBCDateTime(now())# < enddate

-or-

You could also just put a startdate and make its value
#createODBCDaetTime(now())# when you enter the record then:

Select whatever from table where startdate >
#createODBCDateTime(dateadd('d', -10, now()))#

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com



-Original Message-
From: Ali [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:22 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Expires after 10 days

Hi:
Sorry if it's a very basic question. I wonder how I can set a query record
to be displayed for a period of time? For example an advertisement  stays
visible for 10 day in  the site and  inactivates automaticly  afterward? I
thought maybe I use a "bit" entry in my database and somehow write a code in
CF that changes it from 1/YES to 0/No when 10 days later come but how I
really have no idea. Please help me.
Plus I wonder what is the name of such site/applications which show such
advertisement? Are they Auction sites or they have another name?
Thanks
Ali




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Report Builder - table

[Raj Vijay]

Thank you


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Re: Expires after 10 days

[Casey Dougall]

On 2/7/08, Ali <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi:
> Sorry if it's a very basic question. I wonder how I can set a query record
> to be displayed for a period of time? For example an advertisement  stays
> visible for 10 day in  the site and  inactivates automaticly  afterward? I
> thought maybe I use a "bit" entry in my database and somehow write a code
> in
> CF that changes it from 1/YES to 0/No when 10 days later come but how I
> really have no idea. Please help me.
> Plus I wonder what is the name of such site/applications which show such
> advertisement? Are they Auction sites or they have another name?
> Thanks
> Ali



You would be better off relying on two fields. first Date field is the Start
Date of the Add, the  secend field also being a date field with the end
date.
then structure your SQL statement to select the Ad where the date is  EQ or
GT the start date and LT or EQ to end date.


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Expires after 10 days

[Ali]

Hi:
Sorry if it's a very basic question. I wonder how I can set a query record
to be displayed for a period of time? For example an advertisement  stays
visible for 10 day in  the site and  inactivates automaticly  afterward? I
thought maybe I use a "bit" entry in my database and somehow write a code in
CF that changes it from 1/YES to 0/No when 10 days later come but how I
really have no idea. Please help me.
Plus I wonder what is the name of such site/applications which show such
advertisement? Are they Auction sites or they have another name?
Thanks
Ali


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RE: CFExchange Permission Problems

[Sehlmeyer, Jason]

I do have access to the logs, let me know specifically what you're looking for 
and where and I can find it.

I'm using the users' credentials to login to the mailbox.  If I could use a 
single service account and just tell it which mailbox to look in that would 
work better, any suggestions on how to filter this scenario?


Jason
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: Ryan, Terrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:00 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFExchange Permission Problems

Do you have access to the exchange logs?

Also, are you using a service account, or the user's actual credentials?

Terrence Ryan
I.T. Director
Wharton Computing and Information Technology   
E-mail:     [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: Sehlmeyer, Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CFExchange Permission Problems

Any Idea why all of my users can access their mailbox by using a
cfexchange connection except one?

 

I can OWA with the name/password that is used in the connection string
and everything works fine, but Coldfusion complains of invalid access
when trying to access the users.

 

Access to the Exchange server denied. 

Ensure that the user name and password are correct.

 

  

 



 




  

 

Jason

[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

 







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Re: brain dead

[Todd Rafferty]

Don't remember when exactly, but it's there.  What version of MySQL are you
using?

On Feb 7, 2008 8:52 AM, Jeff Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> When did mySQL get the between operator? LOL! I've been stuck in MSSQL
> land for the past 7 years!
>

-- 
http://www.web-rat.com/


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CFSELECT binding question

[T. John Cunningham]

I am currently working on developing a photo album for our local  
volunteer fire department (www.soundbeachfire.org). I am getting hung  
up on a cfselect form binding on the applications admin page.  
Essentially, I have two drop down lists.

DROP DOWN LIST 1 (CATEGORIES): This list contains a list of categories  
and sub-categories for the album. I am limiting the amount of  
subcategories to 4 levels deep. When the page renders, it displays the  
categories in a fashion such as:

-- Please Select --
Category 1
Category 2
 Sub Category A
 Sub Category B
... Sub Category B1
... Sub Category B2

The Query for the above is as follows:


select L0.catid AS L0_catid
 , L0.title as L0_title
  , L1.catid AS L1_catid
  , L1.title as L1_title
  , L2.catid as L2_catid
  , L2.title as L2_title
  , L3.catid as L3_catid
  , L3.title as L3_title
   from t_media_cats as L0
left outer
   join t_media_cats as L1
 on L1.parent = L0.catid
left outer
   join t_media_cats as L2
 on L2.parent = L1.catid
left outer
   join t_media_cats as L3
 on L3.parent = L2.catid
  where L0.parent is null
order by L0_title
  , L1_title
  , L2_title
  , L3_title


On the HTML side, the select statement is (I cut down the sub- 
categories to just 3 levels):


   
 #getCategories.L0_title#
 
 
 ...  
#getCategories.L1_title#
 
 
 
 
 ...  
#getCategories.L2_title#
 
 
   
 

** I removed any of the binding attempts to leave clean code that  
shows the working model without the binding **

DROP DOWN LIST 2 (ALBUMS): This is where I am now stuck. The second  
drop down lost contains a list of all of the albums in a specific  
category. I want to bind this cfselect to the previous list so that  
only the albums in a selected category appear.

The query for this is:


SELECT albumid, title
FROM t_media_albums
ORDER BY title ASC


THE PROBLEM

I am able to bind a simple query (one level of categories) from the  
first drop down list but can not figure out a way to create the bind  
using the method of displaying sub-categories as I have designed. I  
have tried a few different solutions but am unable to come up with a  
way to fix the problem.

I appreciate any help and feedback.

Best regards,

T. John Cunningham
Sr. Solutions Specialist

Sirius Innovations, LLC

(203) 280-1026 Direct
(203) 428-4178 Main
(866) 505-1131 Toll-Free
(866) 861-3293 Toll-Free Fax

P.O. Box 321
Monroe, CT 06468

Corporate Website: http://www.siriusinnovations.com
ID Services Website: http://www.mobile-identification.com








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Re: brain dead

[Jeff Price]

When did mySQL get the between operator? LOL! I've been stuck in MSSQL land for 
the past 7 years!


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Re: brain dead

[Dominic Watson]

Woops, didn't see you were using MySQL.

Just pass the dates into datediff and it will always return the number of
days between them, no need to specify the unit of time you want to compare.
So:

 SELECT *
FROM myTable
WHERE DateDiff(aDateTimeCol, ) >= 0
AND DateDiff(aDateTimeCol, ) <= 0

Dominic

On 07/02/2008, Dominic Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You have to factor in the time as well, which makes this a range search
> > and not an exact match.
>
>
> Absolutely right, good way to be sure of that is to use DateDiff() as it
> specifically compares the date unit you want which is days in this case:
>
> SELECT *
> FROM myTable
> WHERE DateDiff(d,  aDateTimeCol,  cfsqltype="cf_sql_timestamp">) >= 0
> AND DateDiff(d,  aDateTimeCol,  cfsqltype="cf_sql_timestamp">) <= 0
>
> Don't have to fiddle with the dates that way.
>
> If you know the dates are just being set with the date info and no time
> info, then BETWEEN is fine. Or if there is time data stored and you want to
> use BETWEEN, you could do as Jeff says but use BETWEEN instead of the <=
> and  >=.
>
> Dominic
>
> --
> Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk
>



-- 
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Re: brain dead

[Dominic Watson]

>
> You have to factor in the time as well, which makes this a range search
> and not an exact match.


Absolutely right, good way to be sure of that is to use DateDiff() as it
specifically compares the date unit you want which is days in this case:

SELECT *
FROM myTable
WHERE DateDiff(d,  aDateTimeCol, ) >= 0
AND DateDiff(d,  aDateTimeCol, ) <= 0

Don't have to fiddle with the dates that way.

If you know the dates are just being set with the date info and no time
info, then BETWEEN is fine. Or if there is time data stored and you want to
use BETWEEN, you could do as Jeff says but use BETWEEN instead of the <=
and  >=.

Dominic

-- 
Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk


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Missing Template Handler Strangeness....

[Don]

I have a custom missing template set up, but something either in the 
application or with CF7 keeps hitting it.

I know this because I have the missing template write to a CF log file. 
Everytime I refresh the logs, this log file keeps growing.

Almost like something within the application keep repeatedly hitting the page. 
I've cut the page right back to just the logging in order to rule out any 
external coding issues.

Any ideas? 

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Re: brain dead

[Jeff Price]

You have to factor in the time as well, which makes this a range search and not 
an exact match.

The start of a day is 00:00:00, the end of the day is 23:59:59

startDateTime = CreateDateTime(startYear, startMonth, startDay, 0, 0, 0)
endDateTime = CreateDateTime(endYear, endMonth, endDay, 23,59,59)

SELECT *
FROM myTable
WHERE aDateTimeCol >= 
AND aDateTimeCol <= 

> Hi there
> 
> I have in a MySQL Database a field called anniversarydate.
> 
> The field is actually a datetime field.
> 
> In the program I want to select all records between certain dates but 
> I am struggling to do it - am wondering what the secret is.  Basically 
> I have in the field:
> 
> 2008-01-25 15:08:12  I'm guessing that I somehow have to ignore the 
> time part of the field.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance 


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Re: brain dead

[Todd Rafferty]

SELECT columns
FROM table
WHERE anniversarydate BETWEEN  AND 

?

On Feb 7, 2008 7:37 AM, Toby King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi there
>
> I have in a MySQL Database a field called anniversarydate.
>
> The field is actually a datetime field.
>
> In the program I want to select all records between certain dates but I am
> struggling to do it - am wondering what the secret is.  Basically I have in
> the field:
>
> 2008-01-25 15:08:12  I'm guessing that I somehow have to ignore the time
> part of the field.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> 

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Re: CFC, YES OR NO

[Dominic Watson]

>
> the use of CFCs doesn't necessarily have anything to do with object
> > oriented design.  Lots of CFCs are just groupings of functions to
> > perform application tasks


Every time I hear that I get a little twitch going on in my neck (ala the
prison gauard in the Life of Brian).

A group of functions in a component is still OO. An object does not have to
have state. Conversely, an object does not have to have methods and can
simply be a set of public fields (for example a representation of a garden
gnome - it doesn't do anything but it has state). However, I would bet that
in many cases these stateless objects could be given state to be more
useable and reusable.

For example, lets say we had a component that was a group of functions that
returned queries from the database - perhaps they are all queries about
garden gnomes. Having no state, the datasource properties could either be
hard coded into each cfquery (eek), retrieved from the
request/application/session scopes (even more eek), passed to each method as
an argument (fine but a bit hard work). By introducing state to the object
however, you can set the datasource the first time you get an instance of
the component and then never have to worry about it again (unless you are
using multiple datasources which I imagine would be rare in such a
situation). The component is then self contained and as such is more
reusable.

Anyways, I think it is all about understanding. The more you can understand,
the more use you can get. Why buy a super dooper fast computer and refuse to
learn anything but how to check your email? Just having a basic
understanding of OO for ColdFusion is going to save a lot of confusion in
learning about CFCs and I believe will actually make learning them faster.
Dominic
-- 
Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk


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RE: CFExchange Permission Problems

[Ryan, Terrence]

Do you have access to the exchange logs?

Also, are you using a service account, or the user's actual credentials?

Terrence Ryan
I.T. Director
Wharton Computing and Information Technology   
E-mail:     [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: Sehlmeyer, Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CFExchange Permission Problems

Any Idea why all of my users can access their mailbox by using a
cfexchange connection except one?

 

I can OWA with the name/password that is used in the connection string
and everything works fine, but Coldfusion complains of invalid access
when trying to access the users.

 

Access to the Exchange server denied. 

Ensure that the user name and password are correct.

 

  

 



 




  

 

Jason

[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

 





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Re: Cfeclipse/Aptana plugin

[Casey Dougall]

On 2/7/08, Tim L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> even if a toolbar set of buttons is not available (hopefully it is), I
> can't locate the flyout menu you're referring to with html tags - can you
> point me to where that is?  thanks again for any help



Well, it's more a auto complete than anything. If you have aptana installed,
and even if you are in cfeclipse perspective, start typing a tag like  tag which
seems to be a bit strange.

If you have changed "Insite Delay" under cfeclipse editor properties, you
may not see these auto complete options.


Casey


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Re: brain dead

[benjamin schwartz]

Do your select statement like this

 select * from tableName where  anniversarydate >= '#firstDate#' and
anniversarydate <= '#endDate#'

On Feb 7, 2008 7:37 AM, Toby King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi there
>
> I have in a MySQL Database a field called anniversarydate.
>
> The field is actually a datetime field.
>
> In the program I want to select all records between certain dates but I am
> struggling to do it - am wondering what the secret is.  Basically I have in
> the field:
>
> 2008-01-25 15:08:12  I'm guessing that I somehow have to ignore the time
> part of the field.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> 

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