RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> a side note to this is that the proposed java based CF App Server > is not an > applet machine... it is a servlet engine at heart. Just a technicallity, > but I thought it was worth mentioning that applets have nothing to do with > most of allaire's future plans for java based technologies. Yes, true. I suppose I didn't phrase that properly -- sometimes I'm too terse. I just meant since CF will be Java-based there will be course increased activity all across the Java front in regards to such things. Today it's rare to find Java CFX or a Java applet for CF. --min > ~Simon ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Thanks! Works like a charm. best, paul At 11:47 AM 1/19/01 -0600, you wrote: >Paul, > >Check the CF_AEBrowser custom tag, I think it does it as well as testing for >a variety of other things... > >Is there a way to test if a browser has turned off Javascript? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
- Original Message - From: "Kevin Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 3:34 AM > What about when it comes time to implement wireless and other new > technologies? Are you willing to putting all your eggs in one basket in > the hopes that your proprietary vendor implements these client > technologies by the time you are ready? If your CIO comes to you Yes - an excellent point. One of the real strengths of this merger is Macromedia's legacy expertise in ASP development - partially inherited from their acquisition of Drumbeat (which BTW was a an exceptional product), and to which they can now add client and server side expertise in Cold Fusion. In terms of database driven development and environments, this encompasses a huge gamut of possibilities. Providing Macromedia also embrace XML and other emergent dynamic web enabling technolgogies, we, as developers, should only concern ourselves with optimum productivity, utilising whichever development environment provides for that most effectively and efficiently. I look to Macromedia to keep their eye on the ball, and, as a single source company, and preferably within a single product (e.g, UltraDev), provide me with the freedom of choice in achieving my optimum development objectives within a diverse, yet integrated, development environment. We have to look beyond Cold Fusion, ASP etc. to the ultimate objectives - we should not see this as the end of Cold Fusion, but the beginning of Cold Fusion Plus. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge -- A couple examples of mixin g technologies
At 02:00 PM 1/18/01 Hal Helms wrote: >People who want to see a killer demo of integrating CF and Flash should look >at FigLeaf's org chart demo that Steve mentions. Imagine having the ability >to do this kind of interface easily--that would be a bee-yoo-tiful thing. That is a very nice interface. A couple of sites we've done using Cold Fusion to drive Flash Navigation and content are at http://edisongrassroots.com/ and http://servicecentral.com/ - the Cold Fusion part of the interface is more apparent on the Service Central site, where all the content is being dynamically pulled from a database, and only the navigation is flash, as opposed to the Edison site, where the entire site is generated Flash. Judith Campbell Chief Technical Officer Digital Positions, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 404-351-9366 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
At 06:04 1/19/01 -0800, you wrote: >Is there a way to test if a browser has turned off Javascript? Several ways. I think someone just posted one way, but what we do in a login form is create a hidden variable named "has_javascript" and set it to 0. Then when they submit the form, a javascript handler updates the "has_javascript" variable to be 1. Then you just check that variable. If they don't have javascript the value will still be 0. send them to a no javascript page -R ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Paul, Check the CF_AEBrowser custom tag, I think it does it as well as testing for a variety of other things... HTH, John -Original Message- From: paul smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 8:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Is there a way to test if a browser has turned off Javascript? best, paul At 11:09 AM 1/18/01 -0500, you wrote: >Look, I'm not saying that Flash (or anything other than "vanilla" HTML) >should be used everywhere. I like JavaScript, but I can't rely on it >everywhere. What I am saying is that Flash, like any other client-side >technology, can have a relevant role in business applications if used >properly. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> Is there a way to test if a browser has turned off Javascript? You can attempt to execute JavaScript in a page, and have that page send the results back to the server. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
After all the difficulty that we developers have with proprietary technology, it's amazing to me that this discussion still takes place when talking about client-side web development. What about when it comes time to implement wireless and other new technologies? Are you willing to putting all your eggs in one basket in the hopes that your proprietary vendor implements these client technologies by the time you are ready? If your CIO comes to you tomorrow and says that he wants your site Palm-enabled in three months, could you do it? With an HTML-based site, you could do it in a week. All of a sudden that 96% market penetration doesn't mean much. Kevin >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/18/01 11:01AM >>> At 2:22 PM -0500 1/17/01, Aaron Johnson wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >That's where Flash usually exists does it not? The point is that >where Flash really shines is it's ability to mimic "instant feedback" >to the user... ie: user clicks button, instantly shows "Press >Releases" or whatever.. and thus you have (1) html page that contains >one big .swf with all those features.. there isn't a need for >multiple HTML pages, in fact the only benefit to doing it your way >would be that you could bookmark a Flash file.. you still can't >search it's text with CTRL-F or with an indexing engine... printing >is marginally better in Flash 5, you still can't bookmark a specific >layer even if you have multiple HTML pages. While what you say "to mimic "instant feedback" is one use of Flash, it isn't he only one. It also can be used to attain faster feedback when interfacing the client. It is not necessary to download "one big .swf" that anticipates all the user's choices. You can have a small, attractive, simple .swf that interfaces the server for information based on user input... an equivalent to an html form. this is more efficient because: to display the requested information, only the data (not the html) need be transmitted to the browser The Flash plugin inherently provides browser/platform compatibility... there is no need to transmit markup or client-side script routines to accomplish this. With limited experimentation on a simple form, I have found that Flash can refresh the form in less than 1/2 the time it takes with conventional methods. For the performance of my apps in particular, and of the web in general, this is too significant again to ignore. > >When it comes down to it, what is Flash really usable for? Display of >information? No. Showing store products in a dynamic environment? >No. Both of these can be done better, and with less bandwidth (and much more readably/useably) than with html alone. A simple example of usability: the user inputs and invalid field (or partial field) the CF app returns this field (or portion) hilited in bold or red. No need to transmit an error page, etc no popups, no error messages to decipher... the user's attention is focused on the exact problem... a glaring error You could have a standard catalog page as a .swf... then change the content only based on user selection. Again, the entire page need not be retransmitted and redisplayed... only the changed content whether it be images or text or sample sound snippets. Someday, client-side presentation services will allow efficient merging of static data on the client (or in the cache) with dynamic data from the server, through html x.x html or whatever. Flash offers his today. >Showing dynamic graphs and 3d images? Sure. I gotta be honest >in saying that the only place I see Flash right now is @ cool >development shop sites... Raremedium, Juxt... even the Macromedia >showcase for Flash (http://www.macromedia.com/showcase/) mentions a) >ad banners, b) sound, c) complex client side applications... Flash >isn't going to take over the www. It wasn't made too. > >Just my thoughts... > >Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I >Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer >MINDSEYE, Inc. >617.350.0339 >617.350.8884 >66172567 >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge -- A couple examples of mixin g technologies
People who want to see a killer demo of integrating CF and Flash should look at FigLeaf's org chart demo that Steve mentions. Imagine having the ability to do this kind of interface easily--that would be a bee-yoo-tiful thing. Hal Helms == See www.ColdFusionTraining.com for info on "Best Practices with ColdFusion & Fusebox" training, Jan 22-25 == -Original Message- From: Steve Drucker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge -- A couple examples of mixin g technologies I'm afraid that Dave gave out the url of a very early prototype that we created over a year ago using Flash 4 and CF...the demo (with code ripped from the production app) is actually located here... http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart/orgchart.cfm This demonstrates the use of Flash and CF to create an org-chart interface. You can lookup users by name (passing information to a CF page for data retrieval) and then drag names into the appropriate locations on the chart. Clicking the Save button passes the information back to CF for DB processing. A couple additional benefits are that the org chart dynamically resizes based on browser resizing and the EXACT SAME CODEBASE works on Netscape 4.x and Internet Explorer... Other data-driven demos are available at http://www.figleaf.com/figleafhome/flash/ and the Harpoon project is all about creating data-driven Flash business objects from CF. At the ACFUG and ChiFug this month, I will be demonstrating using CF, Flash, Spectra, and Generator for content management purposes. This compelling mix of technologies is what we feel will drive the web in the future. Is it a panacea? No...but it does deliver many compelling advantages. Regards, Steve Drucker CEO Fig Leaf Software -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge NOW, it does. It didn't last night. I guess it wasn't quite ready for prime time then. Thanks. best, paul PS> I get the 404 on OK, too (They probably don't want the changes to be permanent.) At 09:18 AM 1/18/01 +, you wrote: >Click Search & you get a list of names which you can >drag & drop into the various boxes. > >When I hit OK I get a 404 though :-( > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:58 AM >To: CF-Talk >Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > >What's it supposed to do? It just sits there for me. > >best, paul > >At 06:18 PM 1/17/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: > > > >http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Is there a way to test if a browser has turned off Javascript? best, paul At 11:09 AM 1/18/01 -0500, you wrote: >Look, I'm not saying that Flash (or anything other than "vanilla" HTML) >should be used everywhere. I like JavaScript, but I can't rely on it >everywhere. What I am saying is that Flash, like any other client-side >technology, can have a relevant role in business applications if used >properly. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
After all the difficulty that we developers have with proprietary technology, it's amazing to me that this discussion still takes place when talking about client-side web development. What about when it comes time to implement wireless and other new technologies? Are you willing to putting all your eggs in one basket in the hopes that your proprietary vendor implements these client technologies by the time you are ready? If your CIO comes to you tomorrow and says that he wants your site Palm-enabled in three months, could you do it? With an HTML-based site, you could do it in a week. All of a sudden that 96% market penetration doesn't mean much. Kevin >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/18/01 11:01AM >>> At 2:22 PM -0500 1/17/01, Aaron Johnson wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >That's where Flash usually exists does it not? The point is that >where Flash really shines is it's ability to mimic "instant feedback" >to the user... ie: user clicks button, instantly shows "Press >Releases" or whatever.. and thus you have (1) html page that contains >one big .swf with all those features.. there isn't a need for >multiple HTML pages, in fact the only benefit to doing it your way >would be that you could bookmark a Flash file.. you still can't >search it's text with CTRL-F or with an indexing engine... printing >is marginally better in Flash 5, you still can't bookmark a specific >layer even if you have multiple HTML pages. While what you say "to mimic "instant feedback" is one use of Flash, it isn't he only one. It also can be used to attain faster feedback when interfacing the client. It is not necessary to download "one big .swf" that anticipates all the user's choices. You can have a small, attractive, simple .swf that interfaces the server for information based on user input... an equivalent to an html form. this is more efficient because: to display the requested information, only the data (not the html) need be transmitted to the browser The Flash plugin inherently provides browser/platform compatibility... there is no need to transmit markup or client-side script routines to accomplish this. With limited experimentation on a simple form, I have found that Flash can refresh the form in less than 1/2 the time it takes with conventional methods. For the performance of my apps in particular, and of the web in general, this is too significant again to ignore. > >When it comes down to it, what is Flash really usable for? Display of >information? No. Showing store products in a dynamic environment? >No. Both of these can be done better, and with less bandwidth (and much more readably/useably) than with html alone. A simple example of usability: the user inputs and invalid field (or partial field) the CF app returns this field (or portion) hilited in bold or red. No need to transmit an error page, etc no popups, no error messages to decipher... the user's attention is focused on the exact problem... a glaring error You could have a standard catalog page as a .swf... then change the content only based on user selection. Again, the entire page need not be retransmitted and redisplayed... only the changed content whether it be images or text or sample sound snippets. Someday, client-side presentation services will allow efficient merging of static data on the client (or in the cache) with dynamic data from the server, through html x.x html or whatever. Flash offers his today. >Showing dynamic graphs and 3d images? Sure. I gotta be honest >in saying that the only place I see Flash right now is @ cool >development shop sites... Raremedium, Juxt... even the Macromedia >showcase for Flash (http://www.macromedia.com/showcase/) mentions a) >ad banners, b) sound, c) complex client side applications... Flash >isn't going to take over the www. It wasn't made too. > >Just my thoughts... > >Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I >Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer >MINDSEYE, Inc. >617.350.0339 >617.350.8884 >66172567 >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge -- A couple examples of mixin g technologies
Very impressive! This (elegantly) illustrates how bandwidth can be reduced, and interactivity enhanced, by use of Flash... The contents of the search form are refreshed without refreshing the page/form, itself. truly, less is more! The drag & drop implementation is intuitive and user-friendly. The resize is an amazing "usability" feature... the contents of the page are resized along with the window... the user need not bother with scroll bars to view the entire page. The fact that a single codebase supports multiple browsers and platforms transparently, and that the application looks *exactly* the same on all... offers a significant enhancement to productivity in deploying and maintaining an application. With a front-end such as this, we will see a new genre of web applications: seamless data entry & maintenance "what if" type prototyping interactive training There is a lot more to this than just an attractive page. I didn't notice any glitz or distracting animation... just an easy to use application. Very impressive! Dick At 9:44 AM -0500 1/18/01, Steve Drucker wrote: >I'm afraid that Dave gave out the url of a very early prototype that we >created over a year ago using Flash 4 and CF...the demo (with code ripped >from the production app) is actually located here... > >http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart/orgchart.cfm > > >This demonstrates the use of Flash and CF to create an org-chart interface. >You can lookup users by name (passing information to a CF page for data >retrieval) and then drag names into the appropriate locations on the chart. >Clicking the Save button passes the information back to CF for DB >processing. A couple additional benefits are that the org chart dynamically >resizes based on browser resizing and the EXACT SAME CODEBASE works on >Netscape 4.x and Internet Explorer... > >Other data-driven demos are available at >http://www.figleaf.com/figleafhome/flash/ and the Harpoon project is all >about creating data-driven Flash business objects from CF. At the ACFUG and >ChiFug this month, I will be demonstrating using CF, Flash, Spectra, and >Generator for content management purposes. This compelling mix of >technologies is what we feel will drive the web in the future. Is it a >panacea? No...but it does deliver many compelling advantages. > >Regards, >Steve Drucker >CEO >Fig Leaf Software > >-Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:55 AM >To: CF-Talk >Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > >NOW, it does. It didn't last night. I guess it wasn't quite ready for >prime time then. > >Thanks. > >best, paul > >PS> I get the 404 on OK, too (They probably don't want the changes to be >permanent.) > >At 09:18 AM 1/18/01 +, you wrote: >>Click Search & you get a list of names which you can >>drag & drop into the various boxes. >> >>When I hit OK I get a 404 though :-( >> >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:58 AM >>To: CF-Talk >>Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge >> >> >>What's it supposed to do? It just sits there for me. >> >>best, paul >> >>At 06:18 PM 1/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >> >Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: >> > >> >http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation > use Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was > not orginally an MM product. Actually, I *do* remember -- I still have my old FutureSplash cd, complete with the funky crab. But to me this is one of the great success stories of Macromedia -- that they saw this superior product produced by like 9 or 10 guys, bought the company and rather than crush it they made it the centerpiece of their offering. They hired much of the FutureWave staff and have consistently improved Flash while staying true to it's original vision. It's because of that sort of history that I think Macromedia could do wonders for Allaire. Frankly, I think Macromedia has an understanding of business that Allaire has never quite managed to acquire. As a FutureWave customer I was hopeful when Macromedia acquired FutureWave, and I wasn't disappointed by future releases. I am equally as excited about the CF/MM merger, and if it works out as well as the futuresplash/flash deal, i will be very very happy. Michael Caulfield Design Architect Cognitive Arts (847) 425-8529 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> > Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in > > business apps: > > > > http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf > > > > ObObvious: > > Went to page. Asked if I want acitveX control to run. > clicked no. Blank page. Well, of course. The link is to a SWF file itself, presented for demonstration purposes. > Relying on flash (or other similar) with no alternative > content for those choosing not to allow activex is ... > > In an intranet or vpn (with all that a closed and controlled > quasi-laboratory situation implies) I can see axtivex > playing a role. Exposed to the world though ... well I dunno. > > And what about lynx and ADA requirements? > Especially the ADA requirements - being near DC > you should have a good handle on that, Dave. Look, I'm not saying that Flash (or anything other than "vanilla" HTML) should be used everywhere. I like JavaScript, but I can't rely on it everywhere. What I am saying is that Flash, like any other client-side technology, can have a relevant role in business applications if used properly. I don't know what percentage of ColdFusion development is devoted to the public internet, compared to the percentage devoted to internal business applications. I do know that most of our development falls in the latter category, where you generally have a relatively controlled environment. Most internal business applications don't meet (and don't have to meet) ADA standards, because they're not public accommodations. In any case, just like any other client-side technology, you have to make the same choices about how to present content. Nothing I've said is meant to propose that everybody just present all content in Flash. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
At 2:22 PM -0500 1/17/01, Aaron Johnson wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >That's where Flash usually exists does it not? The point is that >where Flash really shines is it's ability to mimic "instant feedback" >to the user... ie: user clicks button, instantly shows "Press >Releases" or whatever.. and thus you have (1) html page that contains >one big .swf with all those features.. there isn't a need for >multiple HTML pages, in fact the only benefit to doing it your way >would be that you could bookmark a Flash file.. you still can't >search it's text with CTRL-F or with an indexing engine... printing >is marginally better in Flash 5, you still can't bookmark a specific >layer even if you have multiple HTML pages. While what you say "to mimic "instant feedback" is one use of Flash, it isn't he only one. It also can be used to attain faster feedback when interfacing the client. It is not necessary to download "one big .swf" that anticipates all the user's choices. You can have a small, attractive, simple .swf that interfaces the server for information based on user input... an equivalent to an html form. this is more efficient because: to display the requested information, only the data (not the html) need be transmitted to the browser The Flash plugin inherently provides browser/platform compatibility... there is no need to transmit markup or client-side script routines to accomplish this. With limited experimentation on a simple form, I have found that Flash can refresh the form in less than 1/2 the time it takes with conventional methods. For the performance of my apps in particular, and of the web in general, this is too significant again to ignore. > >When it comes down to it, what is Flash really usable for? Display of >information? No. Showing store products in a dynamic environment? >No. Both of these can be done better, and with less bandwidth (and much more readably/useably) than with html alone. A simple example of usability: the user inputs and invalid field (or partial field) the CF app returns this field (or portion) hilited in bold or red. No need to transmit an error page, etc no popups, no error messages to decipher... the user's attention is focused on the exact problem... a glaring error You could have a standard catalog page as a .swf... then change the content only based on user selection. Again, the entire page need not be retransmitted and redisplayed... only the changed content whether it be images or text or sample sound snippets. Someday, client-side presentation services will allow efficient merging of static data on the client (or in the cache) with dynamic data from the server, through html x.x html or whatever. Flash offers his today. >Showing dynamic graphs and 3d images? Sure. I gotta be honest >in saying that the only place I see Flash right now is @ cool >development shop sites... Raremedium, Juxt... even the Macromedia >showcase for Flash (http://www.macromedia.com/showcase/) mentions a) >ad banners, b) sound, c) complex client side applications... Flash >isn't going to take over the www. It wasn't made too. > >Just my thoughts... > >Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I >Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer >MINDSEYE, Inc. >617.350.0339 >617.350.8884 >66172567 >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge -- A couple examples of mixin g technologies
I'm afraid that Dave gave out the url of a very early prototype that we created over a year ago using Flash 4 and CF...the demo (with code ripped from the production app) is actually located here... http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart/orgchart.cfm This demonstrates the use of Flash and CF to create an org-chart interface. You can lookup users by name (passing information to a CF page for data retrieval) and then drag names into the appropriate locations on the chart. Clicking the Save button passes the information back to CF for DB processing. A couple additional benefits are that the org chart dynamically resizes based on browser resizing and the EXACT SAME CODEBASE works on Netscape 4.x and Internet Explorer... Other data-driven demos are available at http://www.figleaf.com/figleafhome/flash/ and the Harpoon project is all about creating data-driven Flash business objects from CF. At the ACFUG and ChiFug this month, I will be demonstrating using CF, Flash, Spectra, and Generator for content management purposes. This compelling mix of technologies is what we feel will drive the web in the future. Is it a panacea? No...but it does deliver many compelling advantages. Regards, Steve Drucker CEO Fig Leaf Software -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge NOW, it does. It didn't last night. I guess it wasn't quite ready for prime time then. Thanks. best, paul PS> I get the 404 on OK, too (They probably don't want the changes to be permanent.) At 09:18 AM 1/18/01 +, you wrote: >Click Search & you get a list of names which you can >drag & drop into the various boxes. > >When I hit OK I get a 404 though :-( > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:58 AM >To: CF-Talk >Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > >What's it supposed to do? It just sits there for me. > >best, paul > >At 06:18 PM 1/17/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: > > > >http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You're right, I guess. I said specifically that you can't "...get stats for which part of your .swf was viewed..." Your article mentions Macromedia Flash advertisements, and the implications are that you can track "clicks" by assiging a "clickTag"(in MM lingo). My point is that .swf's are inherently not trackable My point is that for every click or action in a .swf, if it's designed right, most of the time no request is made to the server, thus no log, thus no tracking. Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer MINDSEYE, Inc. 617.350.0339 617.350.8884 66172567 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hey Dave, I wasn't trying to say that Flash has no business applications. I was replying to previous posts where I was under the assumption that people were thinking that Flash would literally become the defacto standard for the display of information in a web page, which I think you'd agree is not and will not become the case. In fact, I've used Generator & Spectra here at MINDSEYE for displaying information and showing dynamically-generated info on multiple sites. The Generator/Flash/CF combo is a powerful one, and I must say that I think the most powerful example of a business application I've seen built using Generator is the site you've done for Rydex Funds. Respectfully, AJ Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer MINDSEYE, Inc. 617.350.0339 617.350.8884 66172567 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Ah...what might have been! The textual content could have been managed by Spectra/CF with the Flash objects being dynamically updated by Generator...as Fig Leaf has done successfully in several implementations. The logging of dynamic content items could have been accomplished through a variety of services -- including Spectra's Business Intelligence systems. Now you can tell your client that with the merger, integrating these platforms will only be getting easier...reducing their overall costs of development. Regards, Steve Drucker CEO Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com -Original Message- From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > Jeez, what is all this talk of Flash - it is a TERRIBLE program; far too > time consuming and cumbersome. > > uurgggh Flash has one use, and one use only - making pretty animations that are there to pad an otherwise bland page One of our clients wanted us to make a completely Flash site - we told them how long it would take to make updates (and thus us charging them), so they took the option to do the updates themselves (surprisingly) Occasionally you see something interesting in Flash, but it's an incredible rarity... I feel sorry for companies that only work in Flash, as they can't tell clients who has been where on their site - either by something like WebTrends or by logging to a database. Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
NOW, it does. It didn't last night. I guess it wasn't quite ready for prime time then. Thanks. best, paul PS> I get the 404 on OK, too (They probably don't want the changes to be permanent.) At 09:18 AM 1/18/01 +, you wrote: >Click Search & you get a list of names which you can >drag & drop into the various boxes. > >When I hit OK I get a 404 though :-( > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:58 AM >To: CF-Talk >Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > >What's it supposed to do? It just sits there for me. > >best, paul > >At 06:18 PM 1/17/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: > > > >http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> Jeez, what is all this talk of Flash - it is a TERRIBLE program; far too > time consuming and cumbersome. > > uurgggh Flash has one use, and one use only - making pretty animations that are there to pad an otherwise bland page One of our clients wanted us to make a completely Flash site - we told them how long it would take to make updates (and thus us charging them), so they took the option to do the updates themselves (surprisingly) Occasionally you see something interesting in Flash, but it's an incredible rarity... I feel sorry for companies that only work in Flash, as they can't tell clients who has been where on their site - either by something like WebTrends or by logging to a database. Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Jeez, what is all this talk of Flash - it is a TERRIBLE program; far too time consuming and cumbersome. uurgggh N http://www.mcbdigital.com ---> ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
What Flash software packages can be used to do this? Can the free Flash 5 Print Authoring Kit do it? best, paul At 03:29 PM 1/17/01 -0800, you wrote: >Actually Flash 5 is very usefull for all those things, the action script in >it allows you to connect to a database via middleware, like coldfusion, so >your content can be just as dynamic as any site that is database driven. I >have seen demos of working input forms and shopping carts that were 100% >flash using CF for database interaction. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Click Search & you get a list of names which you can drag & drop into the various boxes. When I hit OK I get a 404 though :-( -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge What's it supposed to do? It just sits there for me. best, paul At 06:18 PM 1/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: > >http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
What's it supposed to do? It just sits there for me. best, paul At 06:18 PM 1/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: > >http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
I have tried to subscribe to this list in digest form ... but I can't seem to make it work.. heck I don't know how I managed to finally get it to work the first time I looked up the old mail and tried to use that command. I am really getting bugged trying to get this list in digest form. Please somebody!!! either make this list go in digest form or unsubscribe me lol Shelly ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
From: "Dave Watts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: > > http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf > ObObvious: Went to page. Asked if I want acitveX control to run. clicked no. Blank page. Relying on flash (or other similar) with no alternative content for those choosing not to allow activex is ... In an intranet or vpn (with all that a closed and controlled quasi-laboratory situation implies) I can see axtivex playing a role. Exposed to the world though ... well I dunno. And what about lynx and ADA requirements? Especially the ADA requirements - being near DC you should have a good handle on that, Dave. Pan ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Actually Flash 5 is very usefull for all those things, the action script in it allows you to connect to a database via middleware, like coldfusion, so your content can be just as dynamic as any site that is database driven. I have seen demos of working input forms and shopping carts that were 100% flash using CF for database interaction. -Original Message- From: Aaron Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 That's where Flash usually exists does it not? The point is that where Flash really shines is it's ability to mimic "instant feedback" to the user... ie: user clicks button, instantly shows "Press Releases" or whatever.. and thus you have (1) html page that contains one big .swf with all those features.. there isn't a need for multiple HTML pages, in fact the only benefit to doing it your way would be that you could bookmark a Flash file.. you still can't search it's text with CTRL-F or with an indexing engine... printing is marginally better in Flash 5, you still can't bookmark a specific layer even if you have multiple HTML pages. When it comes down to it, what is Flash really usable for? Display of information? No. Showing store products in a dynamic environment? No. Showing dynamic graphs and 3d images? Sure. I gotta be honest in saying that the only place I see Flash right now is @ cool development shop sites... Raremedium, Juxt... even the Macromedia showcase for Flash (http://www.macromedia.com/showcase/) mentions a) ad banners, b) sound, c) complex client side applications... Flash isn't going to take over the www. It wasn't made too. Just my thoughts... Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer MINDSEYE, Inc. 617.350.0339 617.350.8884 66172567 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> When it comes down to it, what is Flash really usable for? Display of > information? No. Showing store products in a dynamic environment? > No. Showing dynamic graphs and 3d images? Sure. I gotta be honest > in saying that the only place I see Flash right now is @ cool > development shop sites... Raremedium, Juxt... even the Macromedia > showcase for Flash (http://www.macromedia.com/showcase/) mentions a) > ad banners, b) sound, c) complex client side applications... Flash > isn't going to take over the www. It wasn't made too. It doesn't have to take over the web to be useful. We're using it quite a bit for business purpose - for displaying information and showing dynamically-generated info. While I like to think that Fig Leaf is a "cool development shop site", we're really not. We build business applications, and we focus squarely on return-on-investment. To the extent that Flash helps us with this, we'll use it. Take a look at this, and tell me Flash has no place in business apps: http://www.figleaf.com/development/flash4/orgchart.swf Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
a side note to this is that the proposed java based CF App Server is not an applet machine... it is a servlet engine at heart. Just a technicallity, but I thought it was worth mentioning that applets have nothing to do with most of allaire's future plans for java based technologies. ~Simon > Simon Horwith > Allaire Certified ColdFusion Instructor > Certified ColdFusion Developer > Fig Leaf Software > 1400 16th St NW, # 220 > Washington DC 20036 > 202.797.6570 (direct line) > www.figleaf.com > -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > As much as I dislike Java, in a year or two the new Java-based > CF will propel programmers to create an infusion of new Java-based > applet's. And all that entails. > > Then of course there is the multi-platform SVG spec that is > beginning to be integrated into modern browsers. The new > SVG/XML/DOM/CSS browsers coming online can do very powerful things. > > These are all powerful, free multi-platform technologies. I > can't see how flash will really be able to compete with them in > the long run So I have major issues with Cold Fusion being > saddled with these old, fat, dying technologies. Here's a little experiment. Replace "flash" with "ColdFusion" in the previous paragraph. After all, CF is a proprietary, not-free, not-quite-platform-independent technology. Here's an example: "As much as I dislike ASP, in a year or two the new .NET architecture will propel programmers to create an infusion of new COM+ components, and all that entails. Then of course there is the multi-platform PHP, Python and Perl languages, which can do very powerful things. These are all powerful, free multi-platform technologies. I can't see how CF will really be able to compete with them in the long run..." And yet, personally, I haven't been concerned with the survival of the CF platform since ASP 1.0, when I just figured that Microsoft would crush CF like it did everything else back then. I feel the same way about Flash. SVG may be powerful, but it fails the all-important test of actually existing in the market. As for new browsers, I'm sure that they'll all implement all that alphabet soup - "SVG/XML/DOM/CSS" - in a compatible manner, right? As for the long run, who knows? We have to build applications now, with the tools we have now - and by that criteria, Flash does the job better than SVG. If I recall correctly, it was John Maynard Keynes said, "In the long run, we shall all be dead." Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Actually, you can. Go forth and read: http://www.macromedia.com/solutions/richmedia/tracking/ At 11:06 AM 1/17/01 -0600, you wrote: >From: "Aaron Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Yeah.. > >ever tried: > >bookmarking a specific element of a .swf? >printing a .swf? >getting stats for which parts of your .swf was viewed? >sending a user to a specific part of your .swf (ie: send this to a >friend..?) >and the point of all points... how all people find your pages: can a >search engine index content a .swf? > >point: You can't. > >I'm with you, I think Flash can do some good things, but remember all >the things it can't do > >Flash: 99% Bad >http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> As much as I dislike Java, in a year or two the new Java-based > CF will propel programmers to create an infusion of new Java-based > applet's. And all that entails. > > Then of course there is the multi-platform SVG spec that is > beginning to be integrated into modern browsers. The new > SVG/XML/DOM/CSS browsers coming online can do very powerful things. > > These are all powerful, free multi-platform technologies. I > can't see how flash will really be able to compete with them in > the long run So I have major issues with Cold Fusion being > saddled with these old, fat, dying technologies. Here's a little experiment. Replace "flash" with "ColdFusion" in the previous paragraph. After all, CF is a proprietary, not-free, not-quite-platform-independent technology. Here's an example: "As much as I dislike ASP, in a year or two the new .NET architecture will propel programmers to create an infusion of new COM+ components, and all that entails. Then of course there is the multi-platform PHP, Python and Perl languages, which can do very powerful things. These are all powerful, free multi-platform technologies. I can't see how CF will really be able to compete with them in the long run..." And yet, personally, I haven't been concerned with the survival of the CF platform since ASP 1.0, when I just figured that Microsoft would crush CF like it did everything else back then. I feel the same way about Flash. SVG may be powerful, but it fails the all-important test of actually existing in the market. As for new browsers, I'm sure that they'll all implement all that alphabet soup - "SVG/XML/DOM/CSS" - in a compatible manner, right? As for the long run, who knows? We have to build applications now, with the tools we have now - and by that criteria, Flash does the job better than SVG. If I recall correctly, it was John Maynard Keynes said, "In the long run, we shall all be dead." Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation > use Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was > not orginally an MM product. Animation isn't all there is to Flash. I remember about three or four years ago, when everyone started saying that HTML interfaces were dying out, to be replaced by Java applets. We all remember how that turned out, right? To me, Flash realizes some of the promises made by Java: platform independence (there are Flash plugins for common browsers on many platforms, including Solaris and Linux) lightweight applications - functional Flash swfs can be pretty small rich interface functionality - you can do things with Flash that are extremely difficult to do with DHTML Here at Fig Leaf, we use Flash for interface components quite a bit, and it's worked very well for us. We don't do lots of animation for its own sake, but instead we use it for adding compelling functionality to our applications. For example, we had a DHTML-based org chart screen in an application. It only worked in IE 5, and was an extremely complicated script - or rather, set of scripts, using DHTML behaviors among other things. We converted it to Flash, where it works better and is cross-platform. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 That's where Flash usually exists does it not? The point is that where Flash really shines is it's ability to mimic "instant feedback" to the user... ie: user clicks button, instantly shows "Press Releases" or whatever.. and thus you have (1) html page that contains one big .swf with all those features.. there isn't a need for multiple HTML pages, in fact the only benefit to doing it your way would be that you could bookmark a Flash file.. you still can't search it's text with CTRL-F or with an indexing engine... printing is marginally better in Flash 5, you still can't bookmark a specific layer even if you have multiple HTML pages. When it comes down to it, what is Flash really usable for? Display of information? No. Showing store products in a dynamic environment? No. Showing dynamic graphs and 3d images? Sure. I gotta be honest in saying that the only place I see Flash right now is @ cool development shop sites... Raremedium, Juxt... even the Macromedia showcase for Flash (http://www.macromedia.com/showcase/) mentions a) ad banners, b) sound, c) complex client side applications... Flash isn't going to take over the www. It wasn't made too. Just my thoughts... Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer MINDSEYE, Inc. 617.350.0339 617.350.8884 66172567 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
what about embedding the flash into the html? From: "Aaron Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:23:05 -0500 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yeah.. ever tried: bookmarking a specific element of a .swf? printing a .swf? getting stats for which parts of your .swf was viewed? sending a user to a specific part of your .swf (ie: send this to a friend..?) and the point of all points... how all people find your pages: can a search engine index content a .swf? point: You can't. I'm with you, I think Flash can do some good things, but remember all the things it can't do Flash: 99% Bad http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer MINDSEYE, Inc. 617.350.0339 617.350.8884 66172567 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
FutureSplash! *laugh* I remember when that came out, my buddy and I both looked at it and thought "this is gonna kill Shockwave"... I guess MM thought so too, so they bought it :) --Scott - Original Message - From: "Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 3:48 AM Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation use > Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was not orginally > an MM product. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Also check out Macromedia - Allaire Merger topic at Allaire Forums: http://forums.allaire.com/DevConf/Thread.cfm?&Thread_ID=212322&mc=39 Some very good points there, especially by Rob Munn and Matt Robertson. Also Jeremy Allaire's 'official' statement: http://forums.allaire.com/DevConf/Thread.cfm?&Thread_ID=212384&mc=1 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Joe
I don't understand the internals but here's what happens:
This isn't an html form, it is a Flash equivalent.
You don't submit the form, Flash does, with a JavaScript-like script
associated with, say a button event (similar to an onClick):
on (release) {
loadVariablesNum ("http://www.mysite.com/myForm.cfm", 0, "POST");
}
~~
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RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yeah.. ever tried: bookmarking a specific element of a .swf? printing a .swf? getting stats for which parts of your .swf was viewed? sending a user to a specific part of your .swf (ie: send this to a friend..?) and the point of all points... how all people find your pages: can a search engine index content a .swf? point: You can't. I'm with you, I think Flash can do some good things, but remember all the things it can't do Flash: 99% Bad http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer MINDSEYE, Inc. 617.350.0339 617.350.8884 66172567 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Since Ultradev/Dreamweaver has always included a full copy of Homesite, my guess is that the Macromedia developers have always been aware of the need to edit code outside of the program and CF/Jrun Studio and Homesite will continue to be a separate program. Also Jeremy Allaire will be the CTO and I couldn't imagine him letting that happen. > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate product - I don't > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > -Original Message- > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 17 January 2001 10:53 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:48 AM > > > > Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation use > > Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was not orginally > > an MM product. > > People don't want animation. > > Research has proven (as has my own experience in talking to users over the > years), that people (especially those on slow links) don't want all of this > animated, presentation frontend stuff. They rather want to get straight to > the > point, and without being slowed down by graphics and other non-relevant > content. > > The strength of this merger is in database driven application development. > Macromedia bought Drumbeat, which was very ASP oriented, and has now been > absorbed into UltraDev. If we can end up with a product for CF/JRun, which > does > everything from Studio to UltraDev - that would be quite something. Of > course it > would need to do ASP(.net) as well for the whole market. > > Adrian Cooper. > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
This intrigues me a bit... how can you get the CF server piece to interact with that flash form without submitting it? You'd still have to perform an HTTP post in order to get the filled in data to the CF server, which would in fact force a new page to load or a refresh of the current page. Unless you were using Generator, right? At 12:13 AM 1/17/01 -0700, you wrote: >Ah, but > >You can use Flash without all the fancy things. > >You can create a simple page with a simple form that: > >looks exactly the same regardless of the browser, fonts, styles, etc. > >has antialiased characters in both the labels and in the fields, > themselves > >improves the user interface > >outperforms a standard form (less bandwidth, faster response) > >The latter is very important for a "nice but fast presentation of useful >data". > >Here's a simple example of what I mean: > >With CF you display a simple blank form to retrieve/edit an employee record: > > > > Employee_ID _ [Submit] > > Last_Name _ > > First_Name _ > > Phone _ > >. >. >. > >Now you enter an employee ID and hit submit. > >what normally happens is this: > >1) the form fields are submitted to your CF program in Name/Value Pairs >(e.g. Employee_ID=12345) > >2) Your CF program gets the info from the form and does a query and >retrieves the data. > >3) Your CF program formats am entirely new copy of the form with the data >fields filled in > >4) You send this back to the browser > >5) The browser's screen goes blank > >6) The entire form and contents are redrawn > >Now, let's do the same thing with Flash. > >The blank form looks the same, except it is defined in flash and is >probably smaller than the equivalent html form. > >When you enter an ID and submit, steps 1 and 2 are exactly the same > >But here is where things get a little different: > >The Flash file which submitted the data is looking for a response in the >format of Name/Value pairs > >3) Your program only formats the Name/Value pairs, not the entire form > >4) The Name/Value pairs (only) are sent back to the browser Flash plugin > >5) the screen does *not* go blank > >6) The Values in the Name/Value pairs replace the contents of the form > fields (the entire form is *not* redrawn) > >The reduction in bandwidth is significant. > >Response time is greatly improved. > >The visitor doesn't stare at a blank or partially redrawn screen > >Dick > > > > > > > >At 8:16 PM -0800 1/16/01, Allan Pichler wrote: > >Flash is all good for fancy presentations. But that's not where the > >majority of inet use is. It's still about making nice but fast presentation > >of useful data. > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
LOL i agree Bill Wheatley Director of Development Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer AEPS INC Allaire ColdFusion Consulting Partner www.aeps.com www.aeps2000.com 954-472-6684 X303 ICQ: 417645 - Original Message - From: "Edward Chanter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 6:38 AM Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > I just hope that Macromedia keep developing code based editors and not try > and get everyone using something like UltraDev (which IMHO is a pile of dog > pooh...) I evaluated UltraDev and then it went the way of 99% of other > editors I've used - Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove > Programs ;o) > > I guess I'm just of the old school that says you have to learn how to code > an entire site in html using notepad and Paint Shop Pro before being > unleashed on Dreamweaver... Let's hope that > > WYSIWYG > > doesn't become > > WYSINAWYGIFIS > (what you see is not always what you get in fact it's scary) > > just my ten cents worth... > > oh and I agree with a previous poster that Flash is bollox! > > -= Ed > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:25 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > > > > > > > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate > > product - I don't > > > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > > > But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it > > feature set - > > why not? > > > > I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is > > everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown > > dynamic, database > > site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right > > there where I > > want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of > > seperate tools to do > > the same job less efficiently. > > > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
AMEN!!! Bill Wheatley Director of Development Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer AEPS INC Allaire ColdFusion Consulting Partner www.aeps.com www.aeps2000.com 954-472-6684 X303 ICQ: 417645 - Original Message - From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 5:56 AM Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate product - I don't > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > -Original Message- > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 17 January 2001 10:53 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:48 AM > > > > Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation use > > Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was not orginally > > an MM product. > > People don't want animation. > > Research has proven (as has my own experience in talking to users over the > years), that people (especially those on slow links) don't want all of this > animated, presentation frontend stuff. They rather want to get straight to > the > point, and without being slowed down by graphics and other non-relevant > content. > > The strength of this merger is in database driven application development. > Macromedia bought Drumbeat, which was very ASP oriented, and has now been > absorbed into UltraDev. If we can end up with a product for CF/JRun, which > does > everything from Studio to UltraDev - that would be quite something. Of > course it > would need to do ASP(.net) as well for the whole market. > > Adrian Cooper. > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
I totally agrre with you both - exactly my thoughts... I in fact learnt html using dreamweaver, and then became involved in html work on CF sites... I became annoyed how that DW corrupted and complicated the page, and increasingly impressed with how simple and well thought out (though I realise its not perfect) CFstudio was to use, that I was using DW less and less and CFstudio more and more. I then moved away from HTML towards primarily CF programming, and DW went out the window... Last time I used DW was about 18months ago - and when I trialed UDev recently I was most disapointed... I suppose UDev does open up simple form/db driven apps to non-techies, but I'm not convinced that that is actually a good thing!!! cheers, Dan -Original Message- From: Edward Chanter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 11:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge And there is someone who actually agrees with me too!!! That's rare, I've just been through major WYSIWYG withdrawal with a new recruit (fresh out of uni thinking that Front Page Extensions rule the universe!), a painful but necessary experience I'd quite like to round up everyone doing any web design courses at universities and colleges and labotomise them of any knowledge of WYSIWYG or anyother editor other than notepad until they've figured out that you can use transparent 1x1 pixel graphics to do just about anything with layout that you want ;o) Oh, I like your site too by the way Kath ;o) -= Ed > -Original Message- > From: Katherine Maltby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:48 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > Thanks Edward.I couldn't have put it better myself! Coming from the > 'learning html in notepad' background also, the thought of everything > turning Dreamweaverish is a very scary prospect! > > Kath > > Katherine Maltby > Senior Producer > > -- > United Kingdom > http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ > Ph: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 > -- > New Zealand > http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ > Ph: +64 (0) 9 419 4235 > > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) . Any > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be > subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution > of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the > intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, > distribute, or > retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 > > > > -Original Message- > From: Edward Chanter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 17 January 2001 11:39 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > I just hope that Macromedia keep developing code based editors and not try > and get everyone using something like UltraDev (which IMHO is a > pile of dog > pooh...) I evaluated UltraDev and then it went the way of 99% of other > editors I've used - Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove > Programs ;o) > > I guess I'm just of the old school that says you have to learn how to code > an entire site in html using notepad and Paint Shop Pro before being > unleashed on Dreamweaver... Let's hope that > > WYSIWYG > > doesn't become > > WYSINAWYGIFIS > (what you see is not always what you get in fact it's scary) > > just my ten cents worth... > > oh and I agree with a previous poster that Flash is bollox! > > -= Ed > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:25 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > > > > > > > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate > > product - I don't > > > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > > > But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it > > feature set - > > why not? > > > > I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is > > everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown > > dynamic, database > > site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right > > there where I > > want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of > > seperate tools to do > > the same job less efficiently. > > > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
You round them up and I'll hold them down!! Kath Katherine Maltby Senior Producer -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Ph: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Ph: +64 (0) 9 419 4235 The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) . Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -Original Message- From: Edward Chanter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 11:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge And there is someone who actually agrees with me too!!! That's rare, I've just been through major WYSIWYG withdrawal with a new recruit (fresh out of uni thinking that Front Page Extensions rule the universe!), a painful but necessary experience I'd quite like to round up everyone doing any web design courses at universities and colleges and labotomise them of any knowledge of WYSIWYG or anyother editor other than notepad until they've figured out that you can use transparent 1x1 pixel graphics to do just about anything with layout that you want ;o) Oh, I like your site too by the way Kath ;o) -= Ed > -Original Message- > From: Katherine Maltby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:48 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > Thanks Edward.I couldn't have put it better myself! Coming from the > 'learning html in notepad' background also, the thought of everything > turning Dreamweaverish is a very scary prospect! > > Kath > > Katherine Maltby > Senior Producer > > -- > United Kingdom > http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ > Ph: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 > -- > New Zealand > http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ > Ph: +64 (0) 9 419 4235 > > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) . Any > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be > subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution > of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the > intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, > distribute, or > retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 > > > > -Original Message- > From: Edward Chanter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 17 January 2001 11:39 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > I just hope that Macromedia keep developing code based editors and not try > and get everyone using something like UltraDev (which IMHO is a > pile of dog > pooh...) I evaluated UltraDev and then it went the way of 99% of other > editors I've used - Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove > Programs ;o) > > I guess I'm just of the old school that says you have to learn how to code > an entire site in html using notepad and Paint Shop Pro before being > unleashed on Dreamweaver... Let's hope that > > WYSIWYG > > doesn't become > > WYSINAWYGIFIS > (what you see is not always what you get in fact it's scary) > > just my ten cents worth... > > oh and I agree with a previous poster that Flash is bollox! > > -= Ed > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:25 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > > > > > > > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate > > product - I don't > > > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > > > But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it > > feature set - > > why not? > > > > I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is > > everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown > > dynamic, database &g
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
And there is someone who actually agrees with me too!!! That's rare, I've just been through major WYSIWYG withdrawal with a new recruit (fresh out of uni thinking that Front Page Extensions rule the universe!), a painful but necessary experience I'd quite like to round up everyone doing any web design courses at universities and colleges and labotomise them of any knowledge of WYSIWYG or anyother editor other than notepad until they've figured out that you can use transparent 1x1 pixel graphics to do just about anything with layout that you want ;o) Oh, I like your site too by the way Kath ;o) -= Ed > -Original Message- > From: Katherine Maltby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:48 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > Thanks Edward.I couldn't have put it better myself! Coming from the > 'learning html in notepad' background also, the thought of everything > turning Dreamweaverish is a very scary prospect! > > Kath > > Katherine Maltby > Senior Producer > > -- > United Kingdom > http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ > Ph: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 > -- > New Zealand > http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ > Ph: +64 (0) 9 419 4235 > > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) . Any > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be > subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution > of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the > intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, > distribute, or > retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 > > > > -----Original Message- > From: Edward Chanter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 17 January 2001 11:39 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > I just hope that Macromedia keep developing code based editors and not try > and get everyone using something like UltraDev (which IMHO is a > pile of dog > pooh...) I evaluated UltraDev and then it went the way of 99% of other > editors I've used - Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove > Programs ;o) > > I guess I'm just of the old school that says you have to learn how to code > an entire site in html using notepad and Paint Shop Pro before being > unleashed on Dreamweaver... Let's hope that > > WYSIWYG > > doesn't become > > WYSINAWYGIFIS > (what you see is not always what you get in fact it's scary) > > just my ten cents worth... > > oh and I agree with a previous poster that Flash is bollox! > > -= Ed > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:25 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > > > > > > > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate > > product - I don't > > > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > > > But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it > > feature set - > > why not? > > > > I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is > > everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown > > dynamic, database > > site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right > > there where I > > want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of > > seperate tools to do > > the same job less efficiently. > > > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Thanks Edward.I couldn't have put it better myself! Coming from the 'learning html in notepad' background also, the thought of everything turning Dreamweaverish is a very scary prospect! Kath Katherine Maltby Senior Producer -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Ph: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Ph: +64 (0) 9 419 4235 The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) . Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -Original Message- From: Edward Chanter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 11:39 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge I just hope that Macromedia keep developing code based editors and not try and get everyone using something like UltraDev (which IMHO is a pile of dog pooh...) I evaluated UltraDev and then it went the way of 99% of other editors I've used - Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs ;o) I guess I'm just of the old school that says you have to learn how to code an entire site in html using notepad and Paint Shop Pro before being unleashed on Dreamweaver... Let's hope that WYSIWYG doesn't become WYSINAWYGIFIS (what you see is not always what you get in fact it's scary) just my ten cents worth... oh and I agree with a previous poster that Flash is bollox! -= Ed > -Original Message- > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:25 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > > > > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate > product - I don't > > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it > feature set - > why not? > > I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is > everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown > dynamic, database > site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right > there where I > want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of > seperate tools to do > the same job less efficiently. > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
I just hope that Macromedia keep developing code based editors and not try and get everyone using something like UltraDev (which IMHO is a pile of dog pooh...) I evaluated UltraDev and then it went the way of 99% of other editors I've used - Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs ;o) I guess I'm just of the old school that says you have to learn how to code an entire site in html using notepad and Paint Shop Pro before being unleashed on Dreamweaver... Let's hope that WYSIWYG doesn't become WYSINAWYGIFIS (what you see is not always what you get in fact it's scary) just my ten cents worth... oh and I agree with a previous poster that Flash is bollox! -= Ed > -Original Message- > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:25 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > > > > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate > product - I don't > > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it > feature set - > why not? > > I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is > everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown > dynamic, database > site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right > there where I > want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of > seperate tools to do > the same job less efficiently. > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
I actually prefer Dreamweaver to Studio (sorry guys!) But thats just because I started with the web with perl and asp before I found cf. I use a combination of Dreamweaver and notepad on NT and on Linux I am always getting new text editors - this week its cooledit. I do think that the harpoon project is interesting - I though that closer links were likely; but I didn't predict a take over. -- Gavin Lilley Internet / Intranet Developer http://halesowen.ac.uk On Wednesday 17 January 2001 11:25, you wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > > > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate product - I > > don't want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... > > But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it feature set > - why not? > > I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is > everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown dynamic, > database site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right > there where I want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of > seperate tools to do the same job less efficiently. > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
mebe - it would have to done right - and still be easy to use / navigate - ultradev still seems to completely remove all my careful code indentation etc... Now if they could integrate some of the ultradev functionality into studio - then I'd be interested - but lets face it, theyre not likely to do that - they will keep on "improving" ultradev, until they feel there is no longer any need for studio. To be honest, I dont think they will get rid of studio - they have included homesite and trial versions of studio since dw2 - and I think its most likely that studio development will continue... I might be completely wrong - its probably best not to decide what macromedia will do, and make judgements at this stage - in a year or so's time we should know what direction things are going in... cheers dan -Original Message- From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 11:25 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge - Original Message - From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate product - I don't > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it feature set - why not? I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown dynamic, database site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right there where I want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of seperate tools to do the same job less efficiently. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
- Original Message - From: "Raymond B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:22 AM > Exactly, I have sharp reservations about the way Macromedia may take CF. > > Flash is all fine for sites who's content needs only to reach a small group > of people in a glitsy manner; but is a step in a wrong direction to web > content. Content and display are mixed to a very high degree (though the CF > FlashUI toolkit might change this a bit), it's not very cross platform > friendly, and most importantly it's a proprietary technology (client side > being the concerning part) leveraged at a specific market. You obviously associate MM with Flash - I associate them with UltraDev. My guess is that the main rationale behind this merger is for productivity site development, and with the future ASP (as in Application Service Provider) market on the Internet in mind - much of which will be database driven - and not to make wiz bang frontends to home pages. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
- Original Message - From: "Daniel Lancelot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:56 AM > I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate product - I don't > want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... But if UltraDev_includes_Studio functionality as a subset of it feature set - why not? I would prefer a single all encompassing developement product, which is everything for CF/JRun from a basic code editor, to full blown dynamic, database site creation enviroment, and with any, and all functions right there where I want them, in context - rather than a disparate bunch of seperate tools to do the same job less efficiently. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Exactly, I have sharp reservations about the way Macromedia may take CF. Flash is all fine for sites who's content needs only to reach a small group of people in a glitsy manner; but is a step in a wrong direction to web content. Content and display are mixed to a very high degree (though the CF FlashUI toolkit might change this a bit), it's not very cross platform friendly, and most importantly it's a proprietary technology (client side being the concerning part) leveraged at a specific market. HTML, CSS, XML, and other standards are that... standards. We all work daily w/ the kind of problems that industries declaring proprietary client side technologies create. Just look at NS and IE, one only has to try to use the DOM or CSS in either to understand the hassles created. The other major issue is at least w/ the two main browsers it's still a text communication; w/ Flash you are dealing w/ something that can't even be interpretted easily w/o specific graphical and platform requirements. You might wonder why I'm dealing so much w/ Flash... well we all know the "Ooohh Ahhh" appeal such things create in warped minds ;) and horrendous messes that ensue *cough**cough*. This seems to me as just another brick in the road, leading the web away from data exchange and into a Las Vegas neon lights contest (viewable only by people who can travel there [ie. mainstream browser w/ tons of plugins, popular chip, popular platform, good eyesight, no automatic parsing, etc.]). :) -Original Message- From: Allan Pichler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: January 16, 2001 23:16 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Flash is all good for fancy presentations. But that's not where the majority of inet use is. It's still about making nice but fast presentation of useful data. That's my 2 cents Allan Pichler -Original Message- From: Scott, Andrew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:40 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Name a succesful competitor to flash:-) regards Andrew Scott Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 11:45 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Does Flash have this much penetration? best, paul At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 percent Web >penetration; ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> > The strength of this merger is in database driven application > development. > Macromedia bought Drumbeat, which was very ASP oriented, and > has now been > absorbed into UltraDev. If we can end up with a product for > CF/JRun, which does > everything from Studio to UltraDev - that would be quite > something. Of course it > would need to do ASP(.net) as well for the whole market. > Problem being that now everyone will think they are a CF programmer, like all people using Dreamweaver think they are HTML/DHTML programmers (when half the time they haven't got a clue!). I think this is a good merger, but lets not get carried away. The worst thing is that the developer base is certain to increase from the increased exposure that the Macromedia name brings. That means more coders, more sites, less money for those who've been in it for longer! Not thinking just about money though, also thinking about the perception from managers and things. Still not sure about that yet... Paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
I just hope that they keep on with cfstudio as a separate product - I don't want to try to develop fusebox sites etc in ultradev... -Original Message- From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 10:53 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge - Original Message - From: "Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:48 AM > Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation use > Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was not orginally > an MM product. People don't want animation. Research has proven (as has my own experience in talking to users over the years), that people (especially those on slow links) don't want all of this animated, presentation frontend stuff. They rather want to get straight to the point, and without being slowed down by graphics and other non-relevant content. The strength of this merger is in database driven application development. Macromedia bought Drumbeat, which was very ASP oriented, and has now been absorbed into UltraDev. If we can end up with a product for CF/JRun, which does everything from Studio to UltraDev - that would be quite something. Of course it would need to do ASP(.net) as well for the whole market. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
- Original Message - From: "Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:48 AM > Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation use > Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was not orginally > an MM product. People don't want animation. Research has proven (as has my own experience in talking to users over the years), that people (especially those on slow links) don't want all of this animated, presentation frontend stuff. They rather want to get straight to the point, and without being slowed down by graphics and other non-relevant content. The strength of this merger is in database driven application development. Macromedia bought Drumbeat, which was very ASP oriented, and has now been absorbed into UltraDev. If we can end up with a product for CF/JRun, which does everything from Studio to UltraDev - that would be quite something. Of course it would need to do ASP(.net) as well for the whole market. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Who cares about Flash; it is total bollox (if you want animation use Director) - I think also people dont remember that Flash was not orginally an MM product. N http://www.mcbdigital.com ---> ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
> These are all powerful, free multi-platform technologies. I can't see how > flash will really be able to compete with them in the long run So I have > major issues with Cold Fusion being saddled with these old, fat, dying > technologies. well macromedia staff are on the VML & the SVG authors list, so i wouldn't say they were old, fat & dying with regards to these emerging "standards". ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Ah, but You can use Flash without all the fancy things. You can create a simple page with a simple form that: looks exactly the same regardless of the browser, fonts, styles, etc. has antialiased characters in both the labels and in the fields, themselves improves the user interface outperforms a standard form (less bandwidth, faster response) The latter is very important for a "nice but fast presentation of useful data". Here's a simple example of what I mean: With CF you display a simple blank form to retrieve/edit an employee record: Employee_ID _ [Submit] Last_Name _ First_Name _ Phone _ . . . Now you enter an employee ID and hit submit. what normally happens is this: 1) the form fields are submitted to your CF program in Name/Value Pairs (e.g. Employee_ID=12345) 2) Your CF program gets the info from the form and does a query and retrieves the data. 3) Your CF program formats am entirely new copy of the form with the data fields filled in 4) You send this back to the browser 5) The browser's screen goes blank 6) The entire form and contents are redrawn Now, let's do the same thing with Flash. The blank form looks the same, except it is defined in flash and is probably smaller than the equivalent html form. When you enter an ID and submit, steps 1 and 2 are exactly the same But here is where things get a little different: The Flash file which submitted the data is looking for a response in the format of Name/Value pairs 3) Your program only formats the Name/Value pairs, not the entire form 4) The Name/Value pairs (only) are sent back to the browser Flash plugin 5) the screen does *not* go blank 6) The Values in the Name/Value pairs replace the contents of the form fields (the entire form is *not* redrawn) The reduction in bandwidth is significant. Response time is greatly improved. The visitor doesn't stare at a blank or partially redrawn screen Dick At 8:16 PM -0800 1/16/01, Allan Pichler wrote: >Flash is all good for fancy presentations. But that's not where the >majority of inet use is. It's still about making nice but fast presentation >of useful data. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
- Original Message - From: "lsellers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 19:59 Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > As much as I dislike Java, in a year or two the new Java-based CF will > propel programmers to create an infusion of new Java-based applet's. And all > that entails. > > Then of course there is the multi-platform SVG spec that is beginning to be > integrated into modern browsers. The new SVG/XML/DOM/CSS browsers coming > online can do very powerful things. > > These are all powerful, free multi-platform technologies. I can't see how > flash will really be able to compete with them in the long run So I have > major issues with Cold Fusion being saddled with these old, fat, dying > technologies. > > --min Reading about one SVG app (news://news.jasc.com TrajectoryPro) and knowing that it will get beyond the plugin and standalone phase fairly quickly; and, seeing that Cf (or other scripter) can easly write ..xml that fully describes any grahic or animation in plain ascii text has kept my interest for most of a yaer now. Beats flash/etc all dry and hollow. almost every svg animation I've seen is smoother, cleaner and faster than the best of flash - downloads faster too and keeps all your whites whiter and doesn't fade your colors - :) Java-ing CF will make hash of any K.I.S.S. principles in re xhtml & scripting graphics and db integration. Pan ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Actually as incorrect as you are, you should have said that the plugin is part of both Netscape and IE browser setups. It only becomes part of Windows 98 install because IE is bundled with Windows 98, W2K etc. regards Andrew Scott Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer -Original Message- From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 13:47 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge It's part of the default Windows 98 install... jon - Original Message - From: "paul smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > Does Flash have this much penetration? > > best, paul > > At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: > >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 percent Web > >penetration; > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
- Original Message - From: "Scott, Andrew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 18:40 Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > Name a succesful competitor to flash:-) > SVG [when it's ready - :) ] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Flash is all good for fancy presentations. But that's not where the majority of inet use is. It's still about making nice but fast presentation of useful data. That's my 2 cents Allan Pichler -Original Message- From: Scott, Andrew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:40 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Name a succesful competitor to flash:-) regards Andrew Scott Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 11:45 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Does Flash have this much penetration? best, paul At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 percent Web >penetration; ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
As much as I dislike Java, in a year or two the new Java-based CF will propel programmers to create an infusion of new Java-based applet's. And all that entails. Then of course there is the multi-platform SVG spec that is beginning to be integrated into modern browsers. The new SVG/XML/DOM/CSS browsers coming online can do very powerful things. These are all powerful, free multi-platform technologies. I can't see how flash will really be able to compete with them in the long run So I have major issues with Cold Fusion being saddled with these old, fat, dying technologies. --min ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
It's part of the default Windows 98 install... jon - Original Message - From: "paul smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > Does Flash have this much penetration? > > best, paul > > At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: > >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 percent Web > >penetration; > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Name a succesful competitor to flash:-) regards Andrew Scott Senior Cold Fusion Application Developer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 17 January 2001 11:45 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Does Flash have this much penetration? best, paul At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 percent Web >penetration; ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
I think the 96% is the percentage of browsers compatible with Flash, with which I would concur. God help us if 96% of the websites out there start using Flash... unless of course they do it as nice as Figleaf. :) -ron > -Original Message- > From: paul smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:45 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge > > > Does Flash have this much penetration? > > best, paul > > At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: > >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 > percent Web > >penetration; ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
yes, it's been shipped with IE and Netscape for quite some time. -Original Message- From: paul smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 4:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge Does Flash have this much penetration? best, paul At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 percent Web >penetration; ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Macromedia and Allaire to Merge
Does Flash have this much penetration? best, paul At 05:05 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >-- Macromedia(R) Flash(TM), the rich media standard, with a 96 percent Web >penetration; ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
