Re: Multilingual site?
And no, UTF-8 is NOT Unicode : UTF8 is an 8 bit encodeing system andUnicode is a 16 bit code. UTF-8 suports Unicode (or any other 16 bitsystem), just as base64 is NOT ASCII, it suports ASCII (or any 8 bitssystem), and ASCII is NOT English (or any other language).Unicode Transformation Format. i rather doubt anyone would have created UTFsw/out unicode. do they somehow predate unicode? are the UTF ever used withanything besides unicode? what character sequence codes do they use? international ms office comes with arial unicode ms, As I told you, it was 2 years ago.it was in international ms office two years ago. Just try a page in Unicode with Netscape 4.7 and you will see ;-(why bring up that pile of dead code?you personally don't want to use unicode, fine. you personally don't needthe euro symbol, fine. however, this discussion was about m11n(multilingual) sites. unicode is by far the best choice for these sorts ofapplications. it offers developers the widest range of languages with theleast cost/resistance in cf. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
Claude Schneegans wrote: And no, UTF-8 is NOT Unicode : UTF8 is an 8 bit encodeing system and Unicode is a 16 bit code.Unicode is 16 bit? So how come there are more than 65536 characters?thats hardly a reason not to use unicode. Well, the problem is not of having a reason not using Unicode, but one of having a reason for using it when it is not necessary.You mean that you don't consider RFC's, W3C standards and IETF BCP's reasons?Jochem [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
why bring up that pile of dead code?I didn't brought up I told you it was 2 years ago.this discussion was about m11n(multilingual) sites. unicode is by far the bestThis discution was about English and French only. For French Unicode is NOT necessary,That is all what I said. PERIOD. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
why bring up that pile of dead code? I didn't brought up I told you it was 2 years ago.well you did in fact bring it up. ns4.7 was a mess in more than one respectbut i don't recall lousy unicode font rendering was one of them. if that wasanother attempt to cast some doubt on the use of unicode, please don'tbother. this discussion was about m11n (multilingual) sites. unicode is by far the best This discution was about English and French only. For French Unicode isNOT necessary, That is all what I said. PERIOD.sorry but the subject is multilingual site? and unicode is still the bestchoice for that type of cf application. not using it is a bad choice. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Multilingual site?
Erm,just to be anal and incite multiple flames (Ive learnt thistechnique from others on the list) I believe UTF actually stands forUCS transformation format rather than the more popular interpretationof Unicode Transformation Format :-) UCS Stands for Universal Character Set a.k.a Universal Multiple-OctetCoded Character Set which is defined as being a superset of Unicode. So if we are to believe all of that then UTF-8 (UCS transformationformat 8) is not strictly Unicode specific. Now that Ive put you all to sleep with this exciting information, wecan get back to addressing the original question of this thread. Andr -Original Message-From: Paul Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 September 2003 07:40To: CF-TalkSubject: Re: Multilingual site? And no, UTF-8 is NOT Unicode : UTF8 is an 8 bit encodeing system andUnicode is a 16 bit code. UTF-8 suports Unicode (or any other 16 bitsystem), just as base64 is NOT ASCII, it suports ASCII (or any 8 bitssystem), and ASCII is NOT English (or any other language).Unicode Transformation Format. i rather doubt anyone would have createdUTFsw/out unicode. do they somehow predate unicode? are the UTF ever usedwithanything besides unicode? what character sequence codes do they use? international ms office comes with arial unicode ms, As I told you, it was 2 years ago.it was in international ms office two years ago. Just try a page in Unicode with Netscape 4.7 and you will see ;-(why bring up that pile of dead code?you personally don't want to use unicode, fine. you personally don'tneedthe euro symbol, fine. however, this discussion was about m11n(multilingual) sites. unicode is by far the best choice for these sortsofapplications. it offers developers the widest range of languages withtheleast cost/resistance in cf._[Todays [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
Erm,just to be anal and incite multiple flames (I've learnt this technique from others on the list).I believe UTF actually stands for UCS transformation format rather than the more popular interpretation of Unicode Transformation Format :-)no thats not quite correct. its unicode OR ucs. theUTF-8 definitionactually states Unicode (or UCS) Transformation Format, 8-bit encodingform. UTF-8 is the Unicode Transformation Format that serializes a Unicodescalar value (code point) as a sequence of one to four bytes, as specifiedin...http://www.unicode.org/glossary/nice try though. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Multilingual site?
Doh! Hoping no one would be as anal as me and actually check that out ohwell. I did try (secretly trying to prolong this exciting debate) Interesting how an abbreviation can mean two things, not ambiguous atall. Andr -Original Message-From: Paul Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 September 2003 16:06To: CF-TalkSubject: Re: Multilingual site? Erm,just to be anal and incite multiple flames (I've learnt this technique from others on the list).I believe UTF actually stands for UCS transformation format rather than the more popularinterpretation of Unicode Transformation Format :-)no thats not quite correct. its unicode OR ucs. theUTF-8 definitionactually states Unicode (or UCS) Transformation Format, 8-bit encodingform. UTF-8 is the Unicode Transformation Format that serializes aUnicodescalar value (code point) as a sequence of one to four bytes, asspecifiedin...http://www.unicode.org/glossary/nice try though._[Todays [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
So how come there are more than 65536 characters?Since version 3, new planes have been added to the original 16 bits code. At the origin, Unicode was fundmentally a 16 bits code.You mean that you don't consider RFC's, W3C standards and IETFNow look, I'm tired of people arguing just for the pleasure of contradicting others and pretending what I mean.This guy in this thread just asked information can be entered in English or French in my case. Whatdo I need to do so that accents and whatnot are stored and displayed correctly?And my answer was Nothing special.Since 1995 I've been developing pages in French using Access 97 database and CF 1.1, none of them supported Unicode; like everybody else I was using the ISO standard (8859-1) which is the standard default character set used by all browsers anyway and I never had any problem. Just for your information ISO is ALSO an international standard, and it existed far before Unicode.Unicode (or UTF-8 or UTF-64!) is a very powerful tool, if one wants to use it for French or even for English, he is free to do so, but to the question what do I need, I'm sorry, I do not answer You need to go Unicode.If the guy asked what do I need for Chinese I would definitely have said you should go Unicode*, but it was not the case.* I know there are other codes for Chinese, so gimme a break! [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Multilingual site?
Not that I am an expert on any of this, but can you really go to unicode.org an expect any acronym with a U in it not to mean Unicode?Reading rfc2044 at ietf.org, I get..this has led to the development of a few so-called UCS transformation formats (UTF), ..,UTF-8 was originally a project of the X/Open JointInternationalization Group XOJIG with the objective to specify a FileSystem Safe UCS Transformation Format [FSS-UTF] that is compatiblewith UNIX systems...So Andre may still be correct.Jerry Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/26/03 11:11AM Doh! Hoping no one would be as anal as me and actually check that out*ohwell. I did try (secretly trying to prolong this exciting debate) Interesting how an abbreviation can mean two things, not ambiguous atall. Andr -Original Message-From: Paul Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 September 2003 16:06To: CF-TalkSubject: Re: Multilingual site? Erm,just to be anal and incite multiple flames (I've learnt this technique from others on the list).I believe UTF actually stands for UCS transformation format rather than the more popularinterpretation of Unicode Transformation Format :-)no thats not quite correct. its unicode OR ucs. theUTF-8 definitionactually states Unicode (or UCS) Transformation Format, 8-bit encodingform. UTF-8 is the Unicode Transformation Format that serializes aUnicodescalar value (code point) as a sequence of one to four bytes, asspecifiedin...http://www.unicode.org/glossary/ nice try though._[Todays [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
Claude Schneegans wrote: You mean that you don't consider RFC's, W3C standards and IETF Now look, I'm tired of people arguing just for the pleasure of contradicting others and pretending what I mean.I am not arguing for the pleasure of contradicing. I am just of the opinion that just because LatinX has the required characters too, that doesn't make it the best solution. And the underlying reason for that is that none of the LatinX charsets are future proof.We have seen it with Latin1, in order to add the euro a new charset had to be defined, because Latin1 was full. What happens to LatinX if for some reason it becomes necessary to add another character? What happens to unicode in that scenario?The whole world is converging on Unicode. Unicode support in new internet protocols is a requirement. UTF-8/16 is the default for charsets in XHTML. Unicode should be the default choice for anything, and I haven't seen any specific resons not to use it even if your website currently only caters to French and English visitors.Jochem [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
Not that I am an expert on any of this, but can you really go tounicode.org an expect any acronym with a U in it not to mean Unicode?well they actually acknowledge UCS in the OR bit. they also have UCS-2, etcdefined in their glossary and they have synched up to ISO 10646, etc.--sothey aren't that one-sided. but since the unicode consortium is doing mostof the work these days (or did, the commercial driving force behind it looksto be satisified with the encoding as is and may actually peter out) iguess i'll take their definition. Reading rfc2044 at ietf.org, I get...UTF-8, a transformation format of Unicode and ISO 10646 So Andre may still be correct.hard to say. for me its still unicode as the char codes represented in thattransform is unicode. its not used by anything else, etc. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
but i don't recall lousy unicode font rendering was one of them.See: http://www.contentbox.com/claude/netscapeUnicode.gifThe font is MS Arial Unicode.When you scroll down, the bottom of the window gets garbadge, when you scroll up it the topsorry but the subject is multilingual site? and unicode is still the bestchoice for that typeNot my fault is the subject is more general than the question inside. I answer to the questions, not just the subjects. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
Hoping no one would be as anal as me and actually check that out.oh well. I did try (secretly trying to prolong this exciting debate)well, unicode is an important issue to me, has been since cf4.5. i won'tnormally let stuff that seems contrary ormis-informed float by. i have allthese bookmarked because my brain is so old i can't recall anything. Interesting how an abbreviation can mean two things, not ambiguous at all.i believe jochem might say thats why we need standards ;-) i would guessthat since this has been around the block a few times, the meaning's changedslightly maybe due to popular use they just wanted to hang a tag on theold stuff. i guess i could ask. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
RE: Multilingual site?
Yes, although originally the U in UTF stood for UCS, it seems that overtime there has been some kind of revisionism leaning towards Unicode probably to avoid confusion and more specifically to prevent these kindsof discussions turning up on mailing lists ;) Ive now managed to successfully bore my self to sleep with thisriveting subject matter. Just enough energy left to sign off Andr -Original Message-From: Paul Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 September 2003 17:07To: CF-TalkSubject: Re: Multilingual site? Not that I am an expert on any of this, but can you really go tounicode.org an expect any acronym with a U in it not to mean Unicode?well they actually acknowledge UCS in the OR bit. they also have UCS-2,etcdefined in their glossary and they have synched up to ISO 10646,etc.--sothey aren't that one-sided. but since the unicode consortium is doingmostof the work these days (or did, the commercial driving force behind itlooksto be satisified with the encoding as is and may actually peter out) iguess i'll take their definition. Reading rfc2044 at ietf.org, I get...UTF-8, a transformation format of Unicode and ISO 10646 So Andre may still be correct.hard to say. for me its still unicode as the char codes represented inthattransform is unicode. its not used by anything else, etc._[Todays [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
UTF-8 is the Unicode Transformation FormatThis only means that UTF8 is the encoding scheme that is (more or less officially) used for Unicode.But at the origin it was designed to represent UCS and ISO 10646.See UTF-8, a transformation format of ISO 10646 athttp://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2279.htmlUnicode is a layer over ISO 10646 since it also defined algorithms like bidirectional writing, line breaking, etc.Just like ASCII (American Standard Code for Information Interchange) is used to interchange information with non American people ;-)) [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
i have all these bookmarked because my brain is so old i can't recall anything.Just in case you missed this one:http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2279.html [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
hard to say.RFC 2279 saysISO/IEC 10646-1 defines a multi-octet character set called theUniversal Character Set (UCS) which encompasses most of the world'swriting systems. Multi-octet characters, however, are not compatiblewith many current applications and protocols, and this has led to thedevelopment of a few so-called UCS transformation formats (UTF),So clearly UCS stands for Universal Character Set and UTF for UCS transformation formats (or probably also Universal transformation formats)The fact that Unicode and ISO/IEC 10646 use the same character codes is making the whole thing a bit fuzzy. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
Of Unicode, yes, but remember: there is NO Unicode on Internet, only UTF-8 and UTF-8 is a method to encode 16 bits character using several 8 bits characters, (up to 6 actually). yes i think i maybe know that already. no, there are more than the utf-8 unicode transform out there, utf-16 is sometimes used, utf-32 exists but is very rare now. there is no only UTF-8. in any case, its *all* unicode. Only US-ASCII chars from 0 to 127 are represented as one byte, so UTF-8 is transparent for ASCII only. All chars from 128 to 255 used in French or other European languages will take 2 bytes, which is unnecessary if you need only languages supported by 256 character sets. thats hardly a reason not to use unicode. the vast majority of latin-1 text uses chars in the first 128 codepoints. the folks who designed built unicode weren't dumb. why would you want that? I mean produce a page in standard latin-1 character set, not UTF-8 again why would you want that? Personally I can leave without that, and I think it is still possible to get Unicode characters separately using appropriate code. non-standard, too much complexity, blah, blah, blah. there are reasons why java, sql server, etc. use unicode internally. it also nails your application's feet to western europe Of course, but I was thinking of application that only use these languages. again why would you want to do that? with a bit of extra thought you can have an app thats world ready. At that time I encountered several problems with some browsers, in particular NT4 to support Unicode fonts: the user was requested to download hudge font files (about 32 megs), and the display was simply horrible. i can't imagine why. arial unicode ms has been around way longer than 2 years and there were plenty of other unicode capable fonts back then. NT4 is not a significative player any more, and Unicode fonts are more or less standard I suppose. international ms office comes with arial unicode ms, thats got everything (and i do mean everything) in it for 10-12mb. normal windows' installs have a couple-three unicode fonts but most all TT will cover some bits of unicode. on windows open up your character map tool, you will see that even venerable times roman has hebrew arabic in it. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138402 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://affiliates.macromedia.com/t.asp?id=2439p=go/dr_text_aff1
Re: Multilingual site?
there is no only UTF-8. in any case, its *all* unicode.What I meant is that there is no Unicode on Internet, only representations en encoding schemes like UTF-8 which is by far the most commonly used; of course, there are others.And no, UTF-8 is NOT Unicode : UTF8 is an 8 bit encodeing system and Unicode is a 16 bit code. UTF-8 suports Unicode (or any other 16 bit system), just as base64 is NOT ASCII, it suports ASCII (or any 8 bits system), and ASCII is NOT English (or any other language).thats hardly a reason not to use unicode.Well, the problem is not of having a reason not using Unicode, but one of having a reason for using it when it is not necessary.the folks who designed built unicode weren't dumb.Did I say something like that?again why would you want that?Again because for languages using only Latin-1 alphabet, I only need Latin-1 alphabet ;-)international ms office comes with arial unicode ms,As I told you, it was 2 years ago.Just try a page in Unicode with Netscape 4.7 and you will see ;-(All characters overlap other parts of the window outside the viewing area when text is scrolled up or down, and they never get erased; horrible. [Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
Re: Multilingual site?
Paul Hastings wrote: Ok, I checked, and what happens is that CFMX declares the page to be UTF-8, but it does the translation automatically, so your text in iso-8859-1 will get translated with no problem. no translation occurs. the latin-1 (ISO-8859-1) char set is a part, i guess the very first part, of unicode. The first 128 characters are identical between unicode, ISO-8859-1 and ASCII (and quite a few others). Jochem ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138259 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: Multilingual site?
no translation occurs. the latin-1 (ISO-8859-1) char set is a part, i guess the very first part, of unicode. Of Unicode, yes, but remember: there is NO Unicode on Internet, only UTF-8 and UTF-8 is a method to encode 16 bits character using several 8 bits characters, (up to 6 actually). Only US-ASCII chars from 0 to 127 are represented as one byte, so UTF-8 is transparent for ASCII only. All chars from 128 to 255 used in French or other European languages will take 2 bytes, which is unnecessary if you need only languages supported by 256 character sets. why would you want that? I mean produce a page in standard latin-1 character set, not UTF-8 for starters latin-1 has no euro symbol. Personally I can leave without that, and I think it is still possible to get Unicode characters separately using appropriate code. it also nails your application's feet to western europe Of course, but I was thinking of application that only use these languages. in any case, use setEncoding/cfcontent in application.cfm and cfprocessingdirective on each page to handle your page encoding. Ah ah! This is it. Pardon me, but I'm still just running some tests on CFMX and I've not been through the whole documentation yet. I don't know how the situation is now, but about 2 years ago I made some research about UTF-8 in order to enhance an application to support Chinese + Arabic + Russian. At that time I encountered several problems with some browsers, in particular NT4 to support Unicode fonts: the user was requested to download hudge font files (about 32 megs), and the display was simply horrible. NT4 is not a significative player any more, and Unicode fonts are more or less standard I suppose. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138356 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 ColdFusion MX 6.1, now 2.5 times faster. http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/productinfo/upgrade/jump/introducing.html?trackingid=ColdFusion_468x60g_HouseofFusion_carat_082803
Re: Multilingual site?
1) use mx (redsky). 2) if you even dream about using non latin-1, use unicode encoding from the start 3) use a db that supports unicode (and is supported by mx). 4) use a resourceBundle for your strings, cache these as appropriate Ok, so I need to make a site that supports multiple languages. This means that the db information can be entered in English or French in my case. What do I need to do so that accents and whatnot are stored and displayed correctly? Also, I want to keep all the strings used to describe things on the site in a separate file so that if a person choosed French, then all the text changes to French. How do people currently do this? If there is some documentation or something that outlines how to do this, I would appreciate it. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138160 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: Multilingual site?
What do I need to do so that accents and whatnot are stored and displayed correctly? Nothing special. Only specify charset=iso8859-1 in a meta tag, but this is not even necessary since it is the default option. You don't need Unicode for French. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138181 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: Multilingual site?
Nothing special. Only specify charset=iso8859-1 in a meta tag, but this is not even necessary since it is the default option. thats not going to work in mx. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138185 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: Multilingual site?
thats not going to work in mx. Hmmm, are you saying that all sites developped in French with CF earlier versions will not work under CFMX? Or am I missing something? ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138210 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: Multilingual site?
Or am I missing something? Ok, I checked, and what happens is that CFMX declares the page to be UTF-8, but it does the translation automatically, so your text in iso-8859-1 will get translated with no problem. The question is what if I want no Unicode and a standard par in true iso-8859-1? ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138223 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: Multilingual site?
Ok, I checked, and what happens is that CFMX declares the page to be UTF-8, but it does the translation automatically, so your text in iso-8859-1 will get translated with no problem. no translation occurs. the latin-1 (ISO-8859-1) char set is a part, i guess the very first part, of unicode. The question is what if I want no Unicode and a standard par in true iso-8859-1? why would you want that? for starters latin-1 has no euro symbol. it also nails your application's feet to western europe (and in time as well, to pre-euro europe). in any case, use setEncoding/cfcontent in application.cfm and cfprocessingdirective on each page to handle your page encoding. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:138246 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: Multilingual site
I need to prepare an exisiting site to take a multilingual user interface (up to 5 languages in the end). It is mostly small user interface elements, the main body of is already prepared to take multilingual content. how will you determine user's locale? dates, numeric/currency formatting? bidi? non-gregorian calendars? what locales will you support? any of these not official cf locales? etc * Put all the text in the database, one entry for each element. how will you pull the data out, per locale? * Read the query into the Application scope, and convert it to a struct (faster to query... ? Or QoQ?) one structure per locale or ?? * Make sure that struct is cached (in the App scope) some two days and not reloaded every time or use a file based (per locale) resourceBundle. unless you're dealing with huge globs of text file based resourceBundles are pretty quick. I am on CF5, put CFMX is on the horizon (not too close though). i'd just wait to go to mx (redsky) before bothering to make your app i18n. you really want to start out and stay with unicode, rather than code page encoding then swapping to unicode somewhere down the road. plus you get more official locales (not enough but more than cf5), cfc, xml support, etc. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: Multilingual site
|| I need to prepare an exisiting site to take a multilingual user || interface (up to 5 languages in the end). It is mostly small user || interface || elements, the main body of is already prepared to take multilingual || content. | | how will you determine user's locale? dates, numeric/currency | formatting? | bidi? non-gregorian calendars? what locales will you support? any of | these | not official cf locales? etc Either by a URL flag, or which domain they enter from (same app on several domains, one for each language). Also remember locale != language. || * Put all the text in the database, one entry for each element. | | how will you pull the data out, per locale? || * Read the query into the Application scope, and convert it to a || struct (faster to query... ? Or QoQ?) One structure of structures. || * Make sure that struct is cached (in the App scope) some two days || and not || reloaded every time | | or use a file based (per locale) resourceBundle. unless you're | dealing with | huge globs of text file based resourceBundles are pretty quick. And being reloaded per each request... ? Doesn't sound too effective to me. And I want all text to be editable through an administration interface. That would be easier in the database. || I am on CF5, put CFMX is on the horizon (not too close though). | | i'd just wait to go to mx (redsky) before bothering to make your app | i18n. | you really want to start out and stay with unicode, rather than code | page | encoding then swapping to unicode somewhere down the road. plus you | get | more official locales (not enough but more than cf5), cfc, xml | support, | etc. I am not worrying to much about the CF locales, it is the languages I am after at this stage. And waiting for CFMX is not an option. And is there something missing in the CF5, in regards to unicode? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: Multilingual site
Hugo Ahlenius wrote: And is there something missing in the CF5, in regards to unicode? Everything. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: Multilingual site
Either by a URL flag, or which domain they enter from (same app on several domains, one for each language). Also remember locale != language. a frontpage? thats kind of clunky (these days). yes, i know locale language. but langauges are not the same across locales (american vs british vs ozzy english for instance) and i18n isn't just about languages. And being reloaded per each request... ? Doesn't sound too effective to me. it's actually quite fast. but you could also load this straight into shared scope structures if you wanted some more caching. And I want all text to be editable through an administration interface. That would be easier in the database. no, i've found that the coding effort is actually the same and if built with CFC you could actually use either for storage. one very good (free) tool is ibm's rbManager tool which also helps track translation efforts for you but produces java standard resourceBundles (\u encoded) which requires extra effort for mx to handle. i'm building an mx based rbMangerIB (rbmanager's idiot brother-in-law) tool to help with this but its still a few weeks away. I am not worrying to much about the CF locales, it is the languages I am other i18n goodness besides the locales. this sounds like you won't ever be using any dates, etc.? after at this stage. And waiting for CFMX is not an option. And is there something missing in the CF5, in regards to unicode? yes, it doesn't handle it at all. if you never leave the latin-1 sandbox, i guess cf5 will be ok but its a dead-end for i18n work. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
