Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Thanks Sean, this is a great insight. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Thu May 03 02:08:48 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) Sure, here's excerpts of a long email exchange I had with someone about choosing between Mach II and Model-Glue (in response to questions about my switch - it's just my side of the conversion so it may seem a bit disjointed in places): ... . . I've changed frameworks in the past for one of two reasons: 1. Educational - so I can learn about other frameworks. 2. My current framework is causing me pain. The first reason is fine for individual developers to experiment and learn but is not a good reason to change existing production applications. The second reason is key for commercial / production applications. If you need to make certain changes / enhancements / whatever, and your current framework is making that hard, then you might consider changing frameworks. Bear in mind that changing frameworks is a pretty major decision and is often accompanied by a lot of tedious work just to get back to where you are. And lots - and LOTS - of QA / testing to ensure you didn't break anything. I've changed frameworks for reason two just once. I went from Mach II to Model-Glue, primarily because I wanted a bean factory to help me manage configuration data. If I was in the same position today - with a Mach II application that needed better configuration control, the path I'd take would be different: I'd simply add ColdSpring to my Mach II application and be done with it. Even deciding to just do new application development using a different framework - and continue maintaining old applications in the old framework - is not a step to be taken lightly. One of the great benefits of using the same framework for all applications that a single team maintains is that plugins / filters / whatever can be reused easily across all applications. Another benefit is that developers can move back and forth between maintenance and new code without having to change gears. ... . . About the only time Mach II's architecture wins in my view is if you have an extremely complex, dynamic state-based model. Those are pretty rare in web applications (otherwise every framework would probably address dynamic flows). Mach II pays quite a performance penalty for that ability - which is a waste of CPU cycles if you don't need it. Another downside of Mach II, compared to Model-Glue, is that Mach II lets you intermingle model calls and view calls which can lead to a messy control file: notify ../ view-page ../ notify ../ notify ../ view-page ../ view-page ../ Model-Glue provides a bit more structure here since you do all your broadcasts first, then all your related views, then if necessary any additional events. Furthermore, Mach II's filter mechanism - whilst very powerful - leads to a control file where it is impossible to tell what the actual application flow might be: filter ../ notify ../ filter ../ view-page ../ notify ../ filter ../ filter ../ notify ../ view-page ../ view-page ../ Without looking inside the code of each filter, it's pretty much impossible to tell what actually gets executed under what conditions. By contrast, Model-Glue's results mechanism explicitly lists the possible event flows and, unless an explicit redirect is declared, you know all the broadcasts and views will be handled before moving to the result event. ... . . Model-Glue provides a set of built in messages that let you perform basic persistence operations without writing any code - just using XML. Look in the local Model-Glue documentation under How To's How To Use Generic Database Messages. Here's an example from the docs: message name=modelglue.GenericList argument name=object value=Contact / argument name=queryName value=aListOfContacts
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Though does Mach-II take the CPU hit regardless if you have chosen a static or dynamic state model - or does it physically use this model no matter what? Basically, performance of Mach-II has always been on my mind and if ygr larger an app gets with Mach-II the slower it will perform (regardless of state type) then I would be wary. I suppose I will need to review the states we require and if we actually require a fluid model which again may filter down t choices. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Thu May 03 02:08:48 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) Sure, here's excerpts of a long email exchange I had with someone about choosing between Mach II and Model-Glue (in response to questions about my switch - it's just my side of the conversion so it may seem a bit disjointed in places): ... . . I've changed frameworks in the past for one of two reasons: 1. Educational - so I can learn about other frameworks. 2. My current framework is causing me pain. The first reason is fine for individual developers to experiment and learn but is not a good reason to change existing production applications. The second reason is key for commercial / production applications. If you need to make certain changes / enhancements / whatever, and your current framework is making that hard, then you might consider changing frameworks. Bear in mind that changing frameworks is a pretty major decision and is often accompanied by a lot of tedious work just to get back to where you are. And lots - and LOTS - of QA / testing to ensure you didn't break anything. I've changed frameworks for reason two just once. I went from Mach II to Model-Glue, primarily because I wanted a bean factory to help me manage configuration data. If I was in the same position today - with a Mach II application that needed better configuration control, the path I'd take would be different: I'd simply add ColdSpring to my Mach II application and be done with it. Even deciding to just do new application development using a different framework - and continue maintaining old applications in the old framework - is not a step to be taken lightly. One of the great benefits of using the same framework for all applications that a single team maintains is that plugins / filters / whatever can be reused easily across all applications. Another benefit is that developers can move back and forth between maintenance and new code without having to change gears. ... . . About the only time Mach II's architecture wins in my view is if you have an extremely complex, dynamic state-based model. Those are pretty rare in web applications (otherwise every framework would probably address dynamic flows). Mach II pays quite a performance penalty for that ability - which is a waste of CPU cycles if you don't need it. Another downside of Mach II, compared to Model-Glue, is that Mach II lets you intermingle model calls and view calls which can lead to a messy control file: notify ../ view-page ../ notify ../ notify ../ view-page ../ view-page ../ Model-Glue provides a bit more structure here since you do all your broadcasts first, then all your related views, then if necessary any additional events. Furthermore, Mach II's filter mechanism - whilst very powerful - leads to a control file where it is impossible to tell what the actual application flow might be: filter ../ notify ../ filter ../ view-page ../ notify ../ filter ../ filter ../ notify ../ view-page ../ view-page ../ Without looking inside the code of each filter, it's pretty much impossible to tell what actually gets executed under what conditions. By contrast, Model-Glue's results mechanism explicitly lists the possible event flows and, unless an explicit redirect is declared, you know all the broadcasts and views will be handled before moving
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Neil, This is an idea i had some time back, when i get soem time i am going to build it: http://www.succor.co.uk/index.cfm/2006/4/15/Framework-MATRIX--which-one-to-use On 02/05/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you are correct, comparing cars to frameworks doesn't really work but if it did and cars were frameworks and I had the following goals To buy a car It has to be yellow It has to go fast And all I have in front of me is a Racing Green Mini Cooper S and an Enzo (in traditional yellow) then my choice is made for me. So, maybe what I and possibly others need to be looking for, or explaned are a map of features v requests pitted against frameworks to help? If after all that we have a two horse race then yes it's down to preferrence. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:21:28 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276881 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Sounds good! This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Nick Tong To: CF-Talk Sent: Thu May 03 08:54:37 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Neil, This is an idea i had some time back, when i get soem time i am going to build it: http://www.succor.co.uk/index.cfm/2006/4/15/Framework-MATRIX--which-one-to-u se On 02/05/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you are correct, comparing cars to frameworks doesn't really work but if it did and cars were frameworks and I had the following goals To buy a car It has to be yellow It has to go fast And all I have in front of me is a Racing Green Mini Cooper S and an Enzo (in traditional yellow) then my choice is made for me. So, maybe what I and possibly others need to be looking for, or explaned are a map of features v requests pitted against frameworks to help? If after all that we have a two horse race then yes it's down to preferrence. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:21:28 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276882 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 4/28/07, Dwayne Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1). What framework best manages variable scoping (what should go into the application scope, what should go into request scope etc) Most of the frameworks place no restrictions on this sort of thing - that decision is down to the developer. Frameworks sometimes provides different ways to encapsulate such data tho'. 2). What framework leverages the best practices for setting up and integrating Model level functionality. (Transfer, Reactor ect) Personally, I think ColdSpring + Transfer is a great combination here. ColdSpring deals with dependencies and initialization. Transfer deals with persistence and caching. Together they let you build and manage much of your model infrastructure. ColdSpring + Transfer can be used with any of the presentation tier frameworks. 3). What framework leverages the best practices for structuring and calling View or display oriented functionality. Any of the presentation tier frameworks. 4). What framework leverages the best practices for organizing Controller Files Any of the presentation tier frameworks. 5). What framework leverages the best library of UDF's for extending coldfusion's data, formatting, scheduling, etc functions. Hard to tell what you mean here. onTap probably has the biggest built-in library of UDF. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276817 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 4/30/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No specific named methodology. Frameworks? Model-Glue, Fusebox, ColdSpring, Transfer. Interesting. Not Mach-II anymore? No. I blogged quite a while back about my switch from Mach II to Model-Glue. That was when I was working on the ERP project and wanted better control of my configuration data. Model-Glue came with a bean factory (ChiliBeans) and that was the deciding factor at first. Once I'd switched to leverage that, I decided I liked Model-Glue better overall. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276819 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 4/30/07, Peterson, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Relating to Frameworks, is there a certain one that scales better between 2 or more servers, or do they all scale the same as long as you setup client vars to be in a DB and shared? Does any framework specifically store internal variables in such a way as to preclude the use of multiple servers with a shared client scope? Mostly the frameworks are all designed to manages requests and data on a single server. I never use client variables (and I've only ever worked on clustered CFMX Enterprise systems). -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276821 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 4/30/07, Dwayne Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More specifically, what types of application parameters should be set up at application initiation. That's a very open-ended question with no black and white answer. I put pretty much any per-application config in application scope in one way or another, usually via ColdSpring. In some frameworks, information is pulled from an XML configuration file. Fusebox has these abstract circuits that I think are stored in the application scope. I am not sure what Mach-II stores in the application scope upon application initiation. Most of the frameworks cache their setup data in application scope. The question is not how to use application.cfm but what makes up a solid application scope variable enviornment? The question doesn't make sense to me - this is a decision that only you can make. It's not a framework-related question at all in my opinion. What's in the application scope variable enviornment of Mach-II, Fusebox etc. Lots of cached data structures that let the framework run efficiently. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276825 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
So preference aside, this effectively tells me, from you as a top notch OO developer, is that Model-Glue is better than Mach-II... You would never consider using Mach-II again? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 21:47:54 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 4/30/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No specific named methodology. Frameworks? Model-Glue, Fusebox, ColdSpring, Transfer. Interesting. Not Mach-II anymore? No. I blogged quite a while back about my switch from Mach II to Model-Glue. That was when I was working on the ERP project and wanted better control of my configuration data. Model-Glue came with a bean factory (ChiliBeans) and that was the deciding factor at first. Once I'd switched to leverage that, I decided I liked Model-Glue better overall. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276826 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
So can and will ColdSpring, Transfer and Mach-II play nice? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 21:57:01 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 4/30/07, Dwayne Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More specifically, what types of application parameters should be set up at application initiation. That's a very open-ended question with no black and white answer. I put pretty much any per-application config in application scope in one way or another, usually via ColdSpring. In some frameworks, information is pulled from an XML configuration file. Fusebox has these abstract circuits that I think are stored in the application scope. I am not sure what Mach-II stores in the application scope upon application initiation. Most of the frameworks cache their setup data in application scope. The question is not how to use application.cfm but what makes up a solid application scope variable enviornment? The question doesn't make sense to me - this is a decision that only you can make. It's not a framework-related question at all in my opinion. What's in the application scope variable enviornment of Mach-II, Fusebox etc. Lots of cached data structures that let the framework run efficiently. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276827 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So preference aside, this effectively tells me, from you as a top notch OO developer, is that Model-Glue is better than Mach-II... I don't think you should draw that conclusion. I could give a long explanation of why I prefer Model-Glue but none of it has to do with OO and none of it means that other people might not prefer Mach II. It really is mostly a preference thing. You would never consider using Mach-II again? If I was offered consulting work and it was using Mach II, I'd use it. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276830 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So can and will ColdSpring, Transfer and Mach-II play nice? Mach II has a ColdSpring plugin. You can use either of Reactor or Transfer (or objectBreeze or whatever) with Mach II / ColdSpring. I'd say they already play nice. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276831 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) as the why's can only ever be used in comparison to other framworks (in this case Model-Glue) and from someone who has had a vested interest in them all at some stage. I don't think it will turn into a my framework is better than yours etc but it will help others see what, where and how a framework has been chosen over another. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 22:08:18 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So preference aside, this effectively tells me, from you as a top notch OO developer, is that Model-Glue is better than Mach-II... I don't think you should draw that conclusion. I could give a long explanation of why I prefer Model-Glue but none of it has to do with OO and none of it means that other people might not prefer Mach II. It really is mostly a preference thing. You would never consider using Mach-II again? If I was offered consulting work and it was using Mach II, I'd use it. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276834 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Coolio. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 22:09:14 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So can and will ColdSpring, Transfer and Mach-II play nice? Mach II has a ColdSpring plugin. You can use either of Reactor or Transfer (or objectBreeze or whatever) with Mach II / ColdSpring. I'd say they already play nice. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276835 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Jeez. I'm not even the one having it requested of me, and I'm wondering where the please is. On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) as the why's can only ever be used in comparison to other framworks (in this case Model-Glue) and from someone who has had a vested interest in them all at some stage. I don't think it will turn into a my framework is better than yours etc but it will help others see what, where and how a framework has been chosen over another. -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276836 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Lol, Sean is smart enough to realise the tone of the mail it wasn't an order :-) it was an open invite to propogate information.. .. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 22:23:33 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Jeez. I'm not even the one having it requested of me, and I'm wondering where the please is. On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) as the why's can only ever be used in comparison to other framworks (in this case Model-Glue) and from someone who has had a vested interest in them all at some stage. I don't think it will turn into a my framework is better than yours etc but it will help others see what, where and how a framework has been chosen over another. -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276839 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
But I'm not smart enough? Even so, that doesn't mean a simple courtesy is unwarranted. On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol, Sean is smart enough to realise the tone of the mail it wasn't an order :-) it was an open invite to propogate information.. .. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 22:23:33 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Jeez. I'm not even the one having it requested of me, and I'm wondering where the please is. On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) as the why's can only ever be used in comparison to other framworks (in this case Model-Glue) and from someone who has had a vested interest in them all at some stage. I don't think it will turn into a my framework is better than yours etc but it will help others see what, where and how a framework has been chosen over another. -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276846 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Since Barney requires I ask and I respect his opinion (even though I think Sean would realise being a fellow Celt that the email was an invitation).. Sean, can you please divulge your findings on this? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 22:44:06 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) But I'm not smart enough? Even so, that doesn't mean a simple courtesy is unwarranted. On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol, Sean is smart enough to realise the tone of the mail it wasn't an order :-) it was an open invite to propogate information.. .. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 22:23:33 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Jeez. I'm not even the one having it requested of me, and I'm wondering where the please is. On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) as the why's can only ever be used in comparison to other framworks (in this case Model-Glue) and from someone who has had a vested interest in them all at some stage. I don't think it will turn into a my framework is better than yours etc but it will help others see what, where and how a framework has been chosen over another. -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276847 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Barney requires I ask and I respect his opinion (even though I think Sean would realise being a fellow Celt that the email was an invitation).. Sean, can you please divulge your findings on this? I didn't get the feeling that you really meant it. Ask again, but this time, mean it. :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276849 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Hi all, First of all I used FB, MG and MII for different projects. I say always it depens for FM selection. It depends on your team, project goal, budget etc. etc. But I really wonder what would be your reason if you are using MachII rather than MG? Imagine that your boss asked to you Ok guys you want to use more OO solution and selected MachII. But why do you prefer to use MachII instead of ModelGlue?, what would be your answers? I have already some answers but I also want to hear from you. Thanks in advance! OÄuz Demirkapı TeraTech Inc. | Senior Developer 405 East Gude Dr Suite 207, Rockville, MD 20850, USA Voice: +1 (301) 424-3903 ext 111 | Fax: +1 (301) 762-8185 Web: http://www.teratech.com | E-mail: oguz.demirkapi AT teratech.com Winner in CFDJ awards Best Consulting. Member Team Fusebox. ~~~ ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276850 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Lol, believe me I do, I think the info would be invaluable. Short of stop playing my Xbox, flying to the US, providing beers I mean it 130% This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 22:57:05 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Barney requires I ask and I respect his opinion (even though I think Sean would realise being a fellow Celt that the email was an invitation).. Sean, can you please divulge your findings on this? I didn't get the feeling that you really meant it. Ask again, but this time, mean it. :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276851 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:01:16 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Hi all, First of all I used FB, MG and MII for different projects. I say always it depens for FM selection. It depends on your team, project goal, budget etc. etc. But I really wonder what would be your reason if you are using MachII rather than MG? Imagine that your boss asked to you Ok guys you want to use more OO solution and selected MachII. But why do you prefer to use MachII instead of ModelGlue?, what would be your answers? I have already some answers but I also want to hear from you. Thanks in advance! OÃYuz Demirkapı TeraTech Inc. | Senior Developer 405 East Gude Dr Suite 207, Rockville, MD 20850, USA Voice: +1 (301) 424-3903 ext 111 | Fax: +1 (301) 762-8185 Web: http://www.teratech.com | E-mail: oguz.demirkapi AT teratech.com Winner in CFDJ awards Best Consulting. Member Team Fusebox. ~~~ ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276852 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Re-reading. Budget, well all frameworks are free last check so it comes down to time V money I presume? Team, well we are all the same skill set. Project, I want to build a large enterprise app which will perform under load, be scalable. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:01:16 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Hi all, First of all I used FB, MG and MII for different projects. I say always it depens for FM selection. It depends on your team, project goal, budget etc. etc. But I really wonder what would be your reason if you are using MachII rather than MG? Imagine that your boss asked to you Ok guys you want to use more OO solution and selected MachII. But why do you prefer to use MachII instead of ModelGlue?, what would be your answers? I have already some answers but I also want to hear from you. Thanks in advance! OÃYuz Demirkapı TeraTech Inc. | Senior Developer 405 East Gude Dr Suite 207, Rockville, MD 20850, USA Voice: +1 (301) 424-3903 ext 111 | Fax: +1 (301) 762-8185 Web: http://www.teratech.com | E-mail: oguz.demirkapi AT teratech.com Winner in CFDJ awards Best Consulting. Member Team Fusebox. ~~~ ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276854 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
can i just throw this blog post from Brian Rinaldi post in teh mixer:P http://www.remotesynthesis.com/blog/index.cfm/2007/2/13/Overthinking-Your-Framework-is-a-Stalling-Tactic;) On 02/05/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:01:16 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Hi all, First of all I used FB, MG and MII for different projects. I say always it depens for FM selection. It depends on your team, project goal, budget etc. etc. But I really wonder what would be your reason if you are using MachII rather than MG? Imagine that your boss asked to you Ok guys you want to use more OO solution and selected MachII. But why do you prefer to use MachII instead of ModelGlue?, what would be your answers? I have already some answers but I also want to hear from you. Thanks in advance! OÄYuz Demirkapý TeraTech Inc. | Senior Developer 405 East Gude Dr Suite 207, Rockville, MD 20850, USA Voice: +1 (301) 424-3903 ext 111 | Fax: +1 (301) 762-8185 Web: http://www.teratech.com | E-mail: oguz.demirkapi AT teratech.com Winner in CFDJ awards Best Consulting. Member Team Fusebox. ~~~ ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276855 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Developer skillset, personal preference, and the app(s) in question are the only important criteria. If those were irrelevant, there would be only one framework in any given arena, because there wouldn't be anything to differentiate. Competing frameworks arise (like anything else) because the existing offerings didn't meet a given entity's need. Honestly, I can't think of anything else that would differentiate a framework in a meaninful way, except perhaps LOC for different tasks, but even that is dependent on the app you're trying to develop, because there will be different tasks to perform depending on the app. cheers, barneyb On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276856 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276857 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
If an outcome is indeed personal preference then hoorah, but it would seem that from posts that there are benefits attributed to some over others based on experience and with technical merit. Of course preference pays a part same we develop in ColdFusion over .NET etc. Do you think that it is just down to, well I like blue so I am going to choose it? Do you not think that one framework does some things better? I am not looking for one ring to rule them all, neither do I think there is one, but there must be pointers etc for certain areas of functionality and focus? If not then so be it! :-] This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:21:28 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276858 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
But to add, I can understand personal preference as it's human nature to like something as an individual, what I don't yet see is where the it depends approach comes in to play. We have had skillset, project and budget as listings. So if we had say a theoretical team of 7 developers all skilled in ColdFusion, CFCs and proficient OO developers wanting to build a scalable enterprise level applications what would I choose? Surely this now gives us a focus to narrow it down? If a set of rules / problems had a dependency then it would be easily to find a better solution Maybe I am over thinking it, and no doubt I am, but the it depends for me is still unanswered... Or maybe we need a framework to choose a framework? :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:21:28 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276860 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
And you are correct, comparing cars to frameworks doesn't really work but if it did and cars were frameworks and I had the following goals To buy a car It has to be yellow It has to go fast And all I have in front of me is a Racing Green Mini Cooper S and an Enzo (in traditional yellow) then my choice is made for me. So, maybe what I and possibly others need to be looking for, or explaned are a map of features v requests pitted against frameworks to help? If after all that we have a two horse race then yes it's down to preferrence. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:21:28 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276862 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
I would pick Fusebox w/ ColdSpring by default. But if the application processing required a significant number of dynamic state changes at the controller level, I'd probably go with Model-Glue w/ ColdSpring. FB's execution path is static, so it's not a good fit for complex dynamic flow processing. A dynamically driven framework (Mach-II or Model-Glue) would be a better fit for that situation. So it depends. :) cheers, barneyb On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to add, I can understand personal preference as it's human nature to like something as an individual, what I don't yet see is where the it depends approach comes in to play. We have had skillset, project and budget as listings. So if we had say a theoretical team of 7 developers all skilled in ColdFusion, CFCs and proficient OO developers wanting to build a scalable enterprise level applications what would I choose? Surely this now gives us a focus to narrow it down? If a set of rules / problems had a dependency then it would be easily to find a better solution Maybe I am over thinking it, and no doubt I am, but the it depends for me is still unanswered... Or maybe we need a framework to choose a framework? :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:21:28 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276863 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
But this in itself is great as it gives anyone looking to build an app who needs to have that degree of control to immediately dismiss Fusebox and in turn to select the correct framework (for the job). This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:49:20 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) I would pick Fusebox w/ ColdSpring by default. But if the application processing required a significant number of dynamic state changes at the controller level, I'd probably go with Model-Glue w/ ColdSpring. FB's execution path is static, so it's not a good fit for complex dynamic flow processing. A dynamically driven framework (Mach-II or Model-Glue) would be a better fit for that situation. So it depends. :) cheers, barneyb On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to add, I can understand personal preference as it's human nature to like something as an individual, what I don't yet see is where the it depends approach comes in to play. We have had skillset, project and budget as listings. So if we had say a theoretical team of 7 developers all skilled in ColdFusion, CFCs and proficient OO developers wanting to build a scalable enterprise level applications what would I choose? Surely this now gives us a focus to narrow it down? If a set of rules / problems had a dependency then it would be easily to find a better solution Maybe I am over thinking it, and no doubt I am, but the it depends for me is still unanswered... Or maybe we need a framework to choose a framework? :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer To: CF-Talk Sent: Wed May 02 23:21:28 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I get confused on why it would depend. If this was the case then it would be easy to choose a framework. Is it that if you want OO dev you choose Mach-II etc. Disregard skillset for this, imagine it was an open playing field and we all knew the same stuff and we all wanted to build the same app. What makes one framework more suitable for a particular project over another (other then personal preference) Why are you so laser focused on believing that one has to just be better than any other? Why *can't* it be personal preference? It's not an open playing field and we don't all know the same stuff. I just recently got into fusebox and chose it because i didn't have any prior experience with frameworks and figured it would likely be the easiest for me to learn. Next I'm leaning towards Coldbox because I've heard that it's got ridiculous amounts of documentation available which again... would make it easier for me to learn. But I don't for a second believe that one is just better than any other. If that were the case, the others wouldn't exist. Yes, a Lexus is better than a Yugo. But a Lexus also costs more than a Yugo. Comparing cars to frameworks in this context doesn't really work. I really think the reason you're having a problem getting the answer that you're looking for is because you're discounting the only right answer which is... it depends / personal preference :) -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to add, I can understand personal preference as it's human nature to like something as an individual, what I don't yet see is where the it depends approach comes in to play. We have had skillset, project and budget as listings. So if we had say a theoretical team of 7 developers all skilled in ColdFusion, CFCs and proficient OO developers wanting to build a scalable enterprise level applications what would I choose? Surely this now gives us a focus to narrow it down? If a set of rules / problems had a dependency then it would be easily to find a better solution Maybe I am over thinking it, and no doubt I am, but the it depends for me is still unanswered... Or maybe we need a framework to choose a framework? I would think that you could narrow your choices down to Mach-ii or Model-Glue, based on the proficiency with CFCs and OO (you could add ColdBox too, but assume for the sake of simplicity we're keeping it to the big 3 community supported application frameworks). It's not that Fusebox doesn't do OO... sean has some sample code that shows procedural FB, MVC FB, and OO FB. but I think that out of the box... Mach-ii and Model-Glue are more of the MVC/OO by nature. If you really liked FB and wanted to go that route... you could. It's personal preference and it depends :) But let's say you've narrowed it down to Mach-ii or MG. Having never used either my statements here shouldn't be swayed by personal preference :) AFAIK, they all allow you to use an ORM of your choice. They all allow you to use ColdSpring. So there's really no voting one off the island based on those criteria. I've heard that Mach-ii is more stringent in enforcing rules...and that the learning curve is higher. However, that might be a moot point if the proficiencies that you mention are already in place. Another consideration might be community support. Mach-ii faded from the spotlight for a while. I believe that Matt Woodward and Peter Farell (among others?) are currently feverishly working on a new release. But for the time being, you might be able to count on greater support from the community if you went with MG. You might also want to download the core files for both MG and Mach-ii and just write yourself a quick Hello World app. See which one you (and your team) feel most comfortable with. I know... that brings it back to a matter of personal preference... but aside from a few things like documentation, community support... really there isn't much else to consider. -- Charlie Griefer ...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276865 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
It's not about the degree of control, it's about the dynamic-ness of control. With FB, you have to use conditional DO actions for dynamic flow, while in MG or M-II, you just broadcast an event of your choice. Either can be used to accomplish the same task, but if you have highly dynamic flow of control (which I'd says is the exception, not the rule), FB will force you into a lot of nested conditionals in your XML. Of course, inside your MG controller or M-II listener you need a conditional to pick which event to dispatch, so it's kind of moot, but conditionals in code are nicer than conditionals in XML, and with code you can name your event dynamically (e.g. dispatchEvent(event#var#)). cheers, barneyb On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But this in itself is great as it gives anyone looking to build an app who needs to have that degree of control to immediately dismiss Fusebox and in turn to select the correct framework (for the job). -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276866 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 5/2/07, Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would pick Fusebox w/ ColdSpring by default. But if the application processing required a significant number of dynamic state changes at the controller level, I'd probably go with Model-Glue w/ ColdSpring. FB's execution path is static, so it's not a good fit for complex dynamic flow processing. A dynamically driven framework (Mach-II or Model-Glue) would be a better fit for that situation. So it depends. Fusebox 6 will support dynamic do actions: myFusebox.do(fuseactionName) It will still compile the fuseaction down to a parsed file (so you only take the hit on the first request). This is working in the dev branch in SVN :) -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276870 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 5/2/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, let's hear the explanation of why and your experiences, I think this should be in the public domain by whatever means. (blogged, list/off-list) Sure, here's excerpts of a long email exchange I had with someone about choosing between Mach II and Model-Glue (in response to questions about my switch - it's just my side of the conversion so it may seem a bit disjointed in places): .. . . I've changed frameworks in the past for one of two reasons: 1. Educational - so I can learn about other frameworks. 2. My current framework is causing me pain. The first reason is fine for individual developers to experiment and learn but is not a good reason to change existing production applications. The second reason is key for commercial / production applications. If you need to make certain changes / enhancements / whatever, and your current framework is making that hard, then you might consider changing frameworks. Bear in mind that changing frameworks is a pretty major decision and is often accompanied by a lot of tedious work just to get back to where you are. And lots - and LOTS - of QA / testing to ensure you didn't break anything. I've changed frameworks for reason two just once. I went from Mach II to Model-Glue, primarily because I wanted a bean factory to help me manage configuration data. If I was in the same position today - with a Mach II application that needed better configuration control, the path I'd take would be different: I'd simply add ColdSpring to my Mach II application and be done with it. Even deciding to just do new application development using a different framework - and continue maintaining old applications in the old framework - is not a step to be taken lightly. One of the great benefits of using the same framework for all applications that a single team maintains is that plugins / filters / whatever can be reused easily across all applications. Another benefit is that developers can move back and forth between maintenance and new code without having to change gears. .. . . About the only time Mach II's architecture wins in my view is if you have an extremely complex, dynamic state-based model. Those are pretty rare in web applications (otherwise every framework would probably address dynamic flows). Mach II pays quite a performance penalty for that ability - which is a waste of CPU cycles if you don't need it. Another downside of Mach II, compared to Model-Glue, is that Mach II lets you intermingle model calls and view calls which can lead to a messy control file: notify ../ view-page ../ notify ../ notify ../ view-page ../ view-page ../ Model-Glue provides a bit more structure here since you do all your broadcasts first, then all your related views, then if necessary any additional events. Furthermore, Mach II's filter mechanism - whilst very powerful - leads to a control file where it is impossible to tell what the actual application flow might be: filter ../ notify ../ filter ../ view-page ../ notify ../ filter ../ filter ../ notify ../ view-page ../ view-page ../ Without looking inside the code of each filter, it's pretty much impossible to tell what actually gets executed under what conditions. By contrast, Model-Glue's results mechanism explicitly lists the possible event flows and, unless an explicit redirect is declared, you know all the broadcasts and views will be handled before moving to the result event. .. . . Model-Glue provides a set of built in messages that let you perform basic persistence operations without writing any code - just using XML. Look in the local Model-Glue documentation under How To's How To Use Generic Database Messages. Here's an example from the docs: message name=modelglue.GenericList argument name=object value=Contact / argument name=queryName value=aListOfContacts / /message This will populate the event argument aListOfContacts with a query (record set) that is the result of selecting all records from the Contact table (or whatever that is aliased to in Reactor). For a lot of simple persistence operations, you don't need to write DAOs and Gateways because the GDMs (as they are known) will do the work for you. Very handy for prototyping. .. . . Because the Model-Glue core is managed by ColdSpring, you can easily override and replace any of the core components with your own version - without touching the core files. For example, you want to handle SES URLs? Write your own state builder object and tell Model-Glue to use that (by specifying your version in your local ColdSpring.xml file). Want to load database objects from multiple Reactor XML files? Not a problem, download my modified Reactor configuration object and specify that as the reactorConfiguration bean in ColdSpring.xml. You can't do that kind of thing with Mach
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On Saturday 28 Apr 2007, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: Just what frameworks/methologies are people using, if any? We use Reactor and ColdSpring to underpin a fairly normal n-tier service/manager methodology. All our new front-ends are Flex, so we don't have a current CF view layer, but in the past Fusebox (3) was used. There must be one which is faster, more productive Why ? and which just seems the best? The one you find easiest to get on with for the job at hand is 'the best'. Which one has the most backing? The most long-term vision and lifecycle? It's all sixes and half-dozens as far as I can tell. For instance, Reactor isn't at v1 yet, but is stable and solid. Transfer has more features, but I'm not sure I'd use them and adding them has created frequent updates to it's core. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to advantageously fashion sexy networks on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276613 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
I think a lot of it really depends on your style of coding. The fastest one, i believe, is the one that best suits your coding style. If your a procedural programmer the last thing you want to do is start working with heavy OO based frameworks. Use the tool for the job. The best framework is also the one that works for you. Ask people who u know program the same way as you and see what they use and why they do, then try it out. In fact... just try them out, then you know yourself ;) On 01/05/07, Tom Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 28 Apr 2007, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: Just what frameworks/methologies are people using, if any? We use Reactor and ColdSpring to underpin a fairly normal n-tier service/manager methodology. All our new front-ends are Flex, so we don't have a current CF view layer, but in the past Fusebox (3) was used. There must be one which is faster, more productive Why ? and which just seems the best? The one you find easiest to get on with for the job at hand is 'the best'. Which one has the most backing? The most long-term vision and lifecycle? It's all sixes and half-dozens as far as I can tell. For instance, Reactor isn't at v1 yet, but is stable and solid. Transfer has more features, but I'm not sure I'd use them and adding them has created frequent updates to it's core. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to advantageously fashion sexy networks on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276623 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
No specific named methodology. Frameworks? Model-Glue, Fusebox, ColdSpring, Transfer. Interesting. Not Mach-II anymore? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Sean Corfield To: CF-Talk Sent: Mon Apr 30 04:31:07 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) On 4/28/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just what frameworks/methologies are people using, if any? No specific named methodology. Frameworks? Model-Glue, Fusebox, ColdSpring, Transfer. from research it seems people fleet between them etc which seems futile. I think a few fairly high profile people have talked publicly about using several frameworks. I don't think any real research would should that people fleet between them. Most people seem to settle on a given set of frameworks and stick with them. Sure, there are always going to be a few switchers but those really are the outliers in the community. I know a lot of hardcore Fuseboxers using FB3, for example, and also a lot of Model-Glue folks using MG1.x. You can hardly accuse them of fleeting between frameworks! There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Like Dave Watts I'll ask why?... different frameworks suit different people and different projects. It's not a decision anyone can - or should - make for you. I liked Zaphods comment about the Accord - very applicable here. Ask this question on the FB forums and they'll probably tell you Fusebox is the answer. Ask it on the MG forums and they'll tell you Model-Glue. Ask it on the M2 forums and they'll tell you Mach II. Which one has the most backing? Hard to say - they all have active communities and mailing lists. The most long-term vision and lifecycle? Again, hard to say. Most of the frameworks' teams have an idea about the next two or three releases. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276536 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Relating to Frameworks, is there a certain one that scales better between 2 or more servers, or do they all scale the same as long as you setup client vars to be in a DB and shared? Does any framework specifically store internal variables in such a way as to preclude the use of multiple servers with a shared client scope? Chris ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276537 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Application.cfm (part of the pre-CF7 built-in application framework). Short of that, Application.cfc with a private method that gets invoked onRequestStart. This is inferior, I think, but necessary if you need some of the other Application.cfc hooks (like onSessionEnd). And let the flame-war begin ;) More specifically, what types of application parameters should be set up at application initiation. In my applications, I query the database to setup my entire navigation systems (an array of structures) then I store it in the application scope. I also store DSN information in application scope. In some frameworks, information is pulled from an XML configuration file. Fusebox has these abstract circuits that I think are stored in the application scope. I am not sure what Mach-II stores in the application scope upon application initiation. The question is not how to use application.cfm but what makes up a solid application scope variable enviornment? What's in the application scope variable enviornment of Mach-II, Fusebox etc. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276542 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Well..Why not? :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Dave Watts To: CF-Talk Sent: Sun Apr 29 06:20:59 2007 Subject: RE: Which Framework do you use... (if any) There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Why? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276500 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
The best tool for the job depends both on the job that you need to do and your experience/skill. If you need to pound some nails, a standard hammer will likely be the best tool for the job, and it's an easy one to learn how to use. But if you need to pound a LOT of nails, an air-hammer is probably a better choice. It's far more expensive, a bit harder to use, and certainly more dangerous, but a lot faster when you have a lot of nails. The same applies to development frameworks. Different projects and different developers will different needs and skills, and therefore the best framework will likely differ as well. cheers, barneyb On 4/29/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well..Why not? :-) -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276505 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
True, but when it comes to these nails and their respective quantities you can go with said air-hammer but surely some air-hammers are better than others... Imagine, large project, skilled developers looking for a good, solid, fast and stable framework (no, not ColdFusion Air Hammer :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert To: CF-Talk Sent: Sun Apr 29 17:39:57 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) The best tool for the job depends both on the job that you need to do and your experience/skill. If you need to pound some nails, a standard hammer will likely be the best tool for the job, and it's an easy one to learn how to use. But if you need to pound a LOT of nails, an air-hammer is probably a better choice. It's far more expensive, a bit harder to use, and certainly more dangerous, but a lot faster when you have a lot of nails. The same applies to development frameworks. Different projects and different developers will different needs and skills, and therefore the best framework will likely differ as well. cheers, barneyb On 4/29/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well..Why not? :-) -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276506 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Hasn't the Accord won best car for several years in a row. Does that mean we should all be driving Accord's? Doesn't a lot of the car purchase come down to what you need a vehicle to do? The framework question is more the general hammer metaphor. All the frameworks are like different types of hammers for different jobs, not just different types of air-hammers. On 4/29/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, but when it comes to these nails and their respective quantities you can go with said air-hammer but surely some air-hammers are better than others... Imagine, large project, skilled developers looking for a good, solid, fast and stable framework (no, not ColdFusion Air Hammer :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert To: CF-Talk Sent: Sun Apr 29 17:39:57 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) The best tool for the job depends both on the job that you need to do and your experience/skill. If you need to pound some nails, a standard hammer will likely be the best tool for the job, and it's an easy one to learn how to use. But if you need to pound a LOT of nails, an air-hammer is probably a better choice. It's far more expensive, a bit harder to use, and certainly more dangerous, but a lot faster when you have a lot of nails. The same applies to development frameworks. Different projects and different developers will different needs and skills, and therefore the best framework will likely differ as well. cheers, barneyb On 4/29/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well..Why not? :-) -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276507 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Well..Why not? For the same reason that there's not one best of most everything else - programming languages, wines, movies, etc. A lot of what makes something best for you is rooted in your own preferences, experience, and goals. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 MX7 integration create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276511 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
So what framework or hammer do you all think best handles setting up an application's global parameters. -- Original Message -- From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 01:20:59 -0400 There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Why? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276518 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Application.cfm (part of the pre-CF7 built-in application framework). Short of that, Application.cfc with a private method that gets invoked onRequestStart. This is inferior, I think, but necessary if you need some of the other Application.cfc hooks (like onSessionEnd). And let the flame-war begin ;) cheers, barneyb On 4/29/07, Dwayne Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what framework or hammer do you all think best handles setting up an application's global parameters. -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276521 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
On 4/28/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just what frameworks/methologies are people using, if any? No specific named methodology. Frameworks? Model-Glue, Fusebox, ColdSpring, Transfer. from research it seems people fleet between them etc which seems futile. I think a few fairly high profile people have talked publicly about using several frameworks. I don't think any real research would should that people fleet between them. Most people seem to settle on a given set of frameworks and stick with them. Sure, there are always going to be a few switchers but those really are the outliers in the community. I know a lot of hardcore Fuseboxers using FB3, for example, and also a lot of Model-Glue folks using MG1.x. You can hardly accuse them of fleeting between frameworks! There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Like Dave Watts I'll ask why?... different frameworks suit different people and different projects. It's not a decision anyone can - or should - make for you. I liked Zaphods comment about the Accord - very applicable here. Ask this question on the FB forums and they'll probably tell you Fusebox is the answer. Ask it on the MG forums and they'll tell you Model-Glue. Ask it on the M2 forums and they'll tell you Mach II. Which one has the most backing? Hard to say - they all have active communities and mailing lists. The most long-term vision and lifecycle? Again, hard to say. Most of the frameworks' teams have an idea about the next two or three releases. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276534 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
Sorry, I know CS is not ORM :-) This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 28 12:59:15 2007 Subject: Which Framework do you use... (if any) Just what frameworks/methologies are people using, if any? There are the obvious front-runners such as Mach-II, Model-Glue and Fusebox 5 (and obvious ORM behind such as ColdSpring, Transfer etc) but from research it seems people fleet between them etc which seems futile. There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Which one has the most backing? The most long-term vision and lifecycle? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276474 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
I use Rails. :) On 4/28/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just what frameworks/methologies are people using, if any? There are the obvious front-runners such as Mach-II, Model-Glue and Fusebox 5 (and obvious ORM behind such as ColdSpring, Transfer etc) but from research it seems people fleet between them etc which seems futile. There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Which one has the most backing? The most long-term vision and lifecycle? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276475 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
OK, frameworks on ColdFusion... This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Zaphod Beeblebrox To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 28 15:08:09 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) I use Rails. :) On 4/28/07, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just what frameworks/methologies are people using, if any? There are the obvious front-runners such as Mach-II, Model-Glue and Fusebox 5 (and obvious ORM behind such as ColdSpring, Transfer etc) but from research it seems people fleet between them etc which seems futile. There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Which one has the most backing? The most long-term vision and lifecycle? This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276476 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
This answer is hard to answer because I really feel it's strongly based on your development style. Are you an old CF 5 developer that's just getting into the MX arena (or maybe you're still not there)? - Fusebox is a wonderful framework for these folks. Are you an OOP junkie? - Mach-II might be your answer. Are you a developer who heavily relies on CFCs but doesn't really care for the OOP approach? - model-glue might be your answer. Now the real cool thing out there in the coldfusion development architecture world are ORMs - the front runners here are Transfer and Reactor. In my experience recently, Transfer is knocking the socks off of Reactor and has been a much more active open source project than Reactor. However, both work extremely well. If you haven't used an ORM yet, you definitely need to try one out :). For those of you not in the know, ORM stands for object role modeling (fancy term, whatever) - the basic idea is that you tell the ORM a few little details about your database tables (what's the table name, what's the PK, what's the relation between your tables) which is typically done in XML. From there, it creates all of your select, insert, update, delete functionality (Commonly called CRUD operations) for you :). Any developer who has done a fair sized project will know that these functions take a good third of your development time - when this gets taken care of for you it is HUGE. So to answer your question, choosing a framework really depends on development style and in many cases choosing multiple frameworks may make a winning combination. Please note that the term frameworks is being used very loosely here - Fusebox and Model glue basically have the same use; transfer and reactor basically have the same use. A winning combination may be model glue and reactor (and coldspring for the model-glue unity setup) or fusebox and transfer. Get your nose out there, and give these frameworks a try! ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276477 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
A good post, though I thought ORM stood for Object Relational/ship Mapping This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Jake Pilgrim To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Apr 28 15:44:17 2007 Subject: Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any) This answer is hard to answer because I really feel it's strongly based on your development style. Are you an old CF 5 developer that's just getting into the MX arena (or maybe you're still not there)? - Fusebox is a wonderful framework for these folks. Are you an OOP junkie? - Mach-II might be your answer. Are you a developer who heavily relies on CFCs but doesn't really care for the OOP approach? - model-glue might be your answer. Now the real cool thing out there in the coldfusion development architecture world are ORMs - the front runners here are Transfer and Reactor. In my experience recently, Transfer is knocking the socks off of Reactor and has been a much more active open source project than Reactor. However, both work extremely well. If you haven't used an ORM yet, you definitely need to try one out :). For those of you not in the know, ORM stands for object role modeling (fancy term, whatever) - the basic idea is that you tell the ORM a few little details about your database tables (what's the table name, what's the PK, what's the relation between your tables) which is typically done in XML. From there, it creates all of your select, insert, update, delete functionality (Commonly called CRUD operations) for you :). Any developer who has done a fair sized project will know that these functions take a good third of your development time - when this gets taken care of for you it is HUGE. So to answer your question, choosing a framework really depends on development style and in many cases choosing multiple frameworks may make a winning combination. Please note that the term frameworks is being used very loosely here - Fusebox and Model glue basically have the same use; transfer and reactor basically have the same use. A winning combination may be model glue and reactor (and coldspring for the model-glue unity setup) or fusebox and transfer. Get your nose out there, and give these frameworks a try! ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276480 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
You will have a hard time convincing me that one methodology is better than another. You can not separate the methodology from the developer's (individuals and development shops) acquired skills, preferences, and other best practices. I bet there are few people who use any one of these methodologies exclusively or with out some sort of customization. It would be helpful however to compare how each framework handles common functions for example. I break my applications up in to a Model, View, Controller files. Model files (.cfm or.cfc) handle my database interactions particularly my CRUD functions. I'm split as to whether i should develop my Model files and .cfc's or .cfm and call them when I need them. View files are responsible for display side. I wrap display code (list, forms etc) with functions and cfsavecontent. Controller files are responsible for controlling user request and I use a modified fusebox approach. For example index.cfm?action = dothis. The index file is basically a cfswitch expression with many cfcases. From a framework perspective, I would be interesting in knowing: 1). What framework best manages variable scoping (what should go into the application scope, what should go into request scope etc) 2). What framework leverages the best practices for setting up and integrating Model level functionality. (Transfer, Reactor ect) 3). What framework leverages the best practices for structuring and calling View or display oriented functionality. 4). What framework leverages the best practices for organizing Controller Files 5). What framework leverages the best library of UDF's for extending coldfusion's data, formatting, scheduling, etc functions. Basically each framework works better on one level or another but fall short of others. I would like to see a move towards FRAMEWORK SEGMENTATION for example a strong framework for handling Model level functions in a way that allows me to use something else for handling my View components. Likewise a strong and flexible View framework (including integrated gui css) the leverages Ajax and allows for one to output smart list, web 2.0 forms, etc. Finally, a framework that effectively handles application specific variables, what types of application variables should be stored in what scope and in what form (database, .txt file, xml etc) For example most store DSN in the application scope. I also store my navigation system in the application scope. -- Original Message -- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:27:27 +0100 A good post, though I thought ORM stood for Object Relational/ship Mapping ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276481 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Which Framework do you use... (if any)
There must be one which is faster, more productive and which just seems the best? Why? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:276499 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
