RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
On the subject, I don't know if anyone has started to build the FAQ yet I've building one now. Give it a month or two, and I'll ask for comments, corrections, etc. -- Aidan Whitehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Netshopper UK Ltd Advanced Web Solutions Services http://www.netshopperuk.com/ Telephone +44 (01744) 648650 Fax +44 (01744) 648651 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
query against it shouldn't really exact addtional memory requirements.
Sounds like it could be an enormous memory hog if used as above.
Buy more memory, (enormous memory if needed), your users deserve it.
Dan.
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RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
The benefits listed below diminishes if application operates under a load balanced environment since it's very hard to synchronize large cached queries or, any cached query for that matter, between servers. You can call all other servers when one is being updated but performance wise not a good idea unless you are getting huge returns. Here's an idea - if you're not going to use it, don't pick holes in it - others will find this functionality very useful (I already know several apps which this will benfit) I personally don't use tags like CFFTP, but I don't sit here whining that it isn't much use for me... We all know the problems with cached queries on clustered servers, so this (probably) isn't going to change, but picking holes in new functionality that many of us will find useful just seems a little off to me... Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
Philip Arnold - ASP wrote: The benefits listed below diminishes if application operates under a load balanced environment since it's very hard to synchronize large cached queries or, any cached query for that matter, between servers. You can call all other servers when one is being updated but performance wise not a good idea unless you are getting huge returns. Here's an idea - if you're not going to use it, don't pick holes in it - others will find this functionality very useful (I already know several apps which this will benfit) I dunno. I think a discussion of the 'good and bad' of the new features is pretty helpful. We all know the problems with cached queries on clustered servers, so this (probably) isn't going to change, but picking holes in new functionality that many of us will find useful just seems a little off to me... I think you're making an assumption that probably isn't true. The list seems to have readers of all levels of proficiency. Maybe Mr Forta or the figleaf crew and you already know the problems. That doesn't mean everyone does. -- Jeff Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: Reboog711 | ICQ: 5246969 | Phone: 860-229-2781 -- Instant ColdFusion 4.5 | ISBN: 0-07-213238-8 Due out 3rd Quarter 2001 -- DotComIt, LLC database driven web data using ColdFusion, Lotus Notes/Domino -- Half of the Alternative Folk Duo called Far Cry Fly http://www.farcryfly.com | http://www.mp3.com/FarCryFly -- I've got the brains, you've got the looks, let's make lots of money ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
I dunno. I think a discussion of the 'good and bad' of the new features is pretty helpful. The discussion is helpful, but to me, Xing's messages always seemed to be "I can't find a use, so why is it there?"... or is it me just being touchy... We all know the problems with cached queries on clustered servers, so this (probably) isn't going to change, but picking holes in new functionality that many of us will find useful just seems a little off to me... I think you're making an assumption that probably isn't true. The list seems to have readers of all levels of proficiency. Maybe Mr Forta or the figleaf crew and you already know the problems. That doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe it's just an assumption that every programmer we've had here has made, and so it seems obvious to us that if one computer loads a query into memory, obviously another computer can't access it's memory, it has it's own... It's rather like building 2 Word documents, typing into one and asking why that typing isn't in the other... they're separate files, like clustered servers are separate machines... I could go on with examples, but I'd just be laboring the point... Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
I think you're making an assumption that probably isn't true. The list seems to have readers of all levels of proficiency. Maybe Mr Forta or the figleaf crew and you already know the problems. That doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe it's just an assumption that every programmer we've had here has made, and so it seems obvious to us that if one computer loads a query into memory, obviously another computer can't access it's memory, it has it's own... ;) It seems obvious to me. It seems obvious to you. I wouldn't assume that it seems obvious to everyone, though. If a developer has never worked in a clustered server situation, they may not know anything about them. -- Jeff Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: Reboog711 | ICQ: 5246969 | Phone: 860-229-2781 -- Instant ColdFusion 4.5 | ISBN: 0-07-213238-8 Due out 3rd Quarter 2001 -- DotComIt, LLC database driven web data using ColdFusion, Lotus Notes/Domino -- Half of the Alternative Folk Duo called Far Cry Fly http://www.farcryfly.com | http://www.mp3.com/FarCryFly -- I've got the brains, you've got the looks, let's make lots of money ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
Maybe it's just an assumption that every programmer we've had here has made, and so it seems obvious to us that if one computer loads a query into memory, obviously another computer can't access it's memory, it has it's own... ;) It seems obvious to me. It seems obvious to you. I wouldn't assume that it seems obvious to everyone, though. If a developer has never worked in a clustered server situation, they may not know anything about them. Very true - although, if the CF FAQ gets built and posted to House Of Fusion on the CF-Talk list sign-up, then it should get around issues like this and other questions that are asked about once a week... On the subject, I don't know if anyone has started to build the FAQ yet - I currently don't have enough time to help add to it (I spend "thinking time" looking at CF-Talk), but I'm sure there are enough people (esp with Uncle Ben, Michael D and Dave W here g) to build the "Mother of all CF FAQs"... Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
At 1:55 PM + 2/3/01, Philip Arnold - ASP wrote: Maybe it's just an assumption that every programmer we've had here has made, and so it seems obvious to us that if one computer loads a query into memory, obviously another computer can't access it's memory, it has it's own... It's rather like building 2 Word documents, typing into one and asking why that typing isn't in the other... they're separate files, like clustered servers are separate machines... Ahh, but there probably is a way to collaborate/share a document or query... Chat rooms do it! White Boards do it! BBSs do it I am not familiar with the clustered server implementation, but there must be some *Master* program in control and to act as arbiter. The server cluster *Master* program would need to keep track of all cached queries and which clients are using which version... not too difficult a task. Then each client would have a browser plugin to act as a user agent periodically query the server cluster *Master* program to make sure he is using the latest version of a (query/document). This could be time-initiated, event-initiated or both. Probably easiest to do on a LAN or an intranet. With high bandwidth, it shouldn't be too bad on the Internet. A simple Flash 5 program would be a good candidate for the client-side agent Hmmm... Dick ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
Ahh, but there probably is a way to collaborate/share a document or query... Chat rooms do it! White Boards do it! BBSs do it I am not familiar with the clustered server implementation, but there must be some *Master* program in control and to act as arbiter. Theoretically, wouldn't that be done by soring data in a database, and thus negating the cache issue? Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
At 7:29 PM + 2/3/01, Philip Arnold - ASP wrote: Ahh, but there probably is a way to collaborate/share a document or query... Chat rooms do it! White Boards do it! BBSs do it I am not familiar with the clustered server implementation, but there must be some *Master* program in control and to act as arbiter. Theoretically, wouldn't that be done by soring data in a database, and thus negating the cache issue? Maybe I misunderstand. I assumed the caching of db queries as well as pages/templates. I also assumed that there must be some *Master* program with control/knowledge of what is in the caches. If several people are collaborating/competing on a query: the query would be cached when any of the affected db records (in a particular query) are changed by a client (or the system), the cached query would be refreshed (and the *Master* program would be notified. requests by any client would be served from the cached copy (if one exists) or a new query would be issued to the db. For example: n clients are currently looking at the last xxx product for sale at a fantastic price Client L(ucky) adds it to his shopping cart... His agent (event-initiated) re-retrieves the current record from the server-cache... it is unchanged... so, proceed with the transaction Client U(nlucky) is a split-second too late... he hits the "add to cart" button. his agent (event-initiated) re-retrieves the current record from the server-cache... Gosh, you just missed it Clients A,B,C procrastinate, but their agent (time initiated) re-retrieves the current record from the server-cache... Alas, too late! I think that this is the closest you can get to push technology with the current web architecture. Server-side caching (whether clustered or un-clustered) should improve performance. In the simple example, all the clients had their browser pages updated efficiently. Only one, Client L(ucky), had any effect on the db (query, lock, update, unlock, rollback, etc.) In reality, the only thing that a client agent need do is send the query id and its timestamp. The server *Master* cache program would check the query ID and timestamp against its cached version send back a refresh of same to the client (only if necessary) Similar logic would apply if several people were collaborating on the same document. This is similar, in some ways,to how IBM's maimframe [sic] CICS (years ago) interfaced with IBM's DL/I database (As I recall, caches were called buffer-pools, in those days). Interestingly enough, Apple's much-maligned "AppleTalk" protocol does a prettu good job of refreshing the desktops of all the computers on a LAN... (when using ethernet) Dick ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
On 2/3/01, Philip Arnold - ASP penned: Theoretically, wouldn't that be done by soring data in a database, and thus negating the cache issue? If the program was written to run the query from the database "only if it didn't exist", then every time a person hit a different server in the cluster and the cached query didn't exist there, it would run the "main" query, then store in memory. On subsequent hits to that server in the cluster, the query WOULD exist and the query wouldn't have to run again before "querying the query". I'd presume however it is stored, you'll be able to do an isDefined on it. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
Have not tested or even had the priv to touch 5.0 yet but isn't just query a query just a search option? So we can do a search for array values, structs, and now arrays which are in a way structs. Hmm..actually, I have yet to use structfind() with queries so I wouldn't know if that works already. You want to know the biggest use for it? Say you've got one table with info in one datasource (SQL Server), but you have other info uploaded in an Excel sheet - you want to compare the data to see what's new in the sheet... Currently you'd have to run many queries, but with Query a Query you can run big queries on both and then just combine them into smaller queries with no database/sheet access If that isn't a bonus, I don't know what is! Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
I'm not questioning whether it's a nice feature or not. I'm just looking for a nice application to put it to good use. From you what you have described, it doesn't save speed or resources in the long run. Currently you'd have to run many queries, but with Query a Query you can run big queries on both and then just combine them into smaller queries with no database/sheet access You are using more ram by grabbing big queries in the first place and then running smaller queries within the large queries in ram so you are still running many queries though not through SQL but with CF. And as the size of the excel sheet data and the SQL counterpart grow in size, the performance gain, if any, will most likely deminish since by grabbing more ram with the large qureries, other system functions might suffer. I'm gonna wait and see more developers test the query on query and see what's the general consensus in terms of performance. Like if a simple SELECT statement on an exisitng query with 100 records on CF would be faster than a SELECT statement directly with db server that contains 10,000 records. It might or might be faster since the db server is optimized for indexes, joins, and other query procedures. Xing You want to know the biggest use for it? Say you've got one table with info in one datasource (SQL Server), but you have other info uploaded in an Excel sheet - you want to compare the data to see what's new in the sheet... Currently you'd have to run many queries, but with Query a Query you can run big queries on both and then just combine them into smaller queries with no database/sheet access If that isn't a bonus, I don't know what is! Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 "Websites for the real world" ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
I'm not questioning whether it's a nice feature or not. I'm just
looking for a nice application to put it to good use.
Ok, here's how I'm kinda planning on putting it to use, and I'm happy to
burn the ram on it.
I have 16 zillion records or so, maybe a few less, and I need to grab
subsets of data from them all over the place. "Get me these records which
match such-and-such, a few more which are like something else, and a couple
more records where something really odd matches."
So I'm looking at 3 queries here, but wait I'll stick 'em in a loop too,
just to really snafu things up. Worse, the criteria I use to search by
changes all the time, guess that's caching out the window.
But now, with super new CF5 I run one query which selects all the fields I'm
ever going to need for *all the records* and, get this, *cache that query*,
now I run all my other queries against that large query. Note that I now
only hit the database *once* for the first big assed query, a big hit sure,
but now it's cached.
So next time I call the page, I don't hit the database at all, my smaller
queries with their every changing criteria, are querying a cached query.
Very much like being able to query a structure (which I suspect is what's
going on here anyway).
It's certainly going to speed up a number of projects I'm working on.
R'grds,
Dan.
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RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
Do you have an need to worry about current data? Because if you hold that
large data set too long how long is it before it becomes outdated and
invalid? or does it stay static?
I'm in the lucky situation (in this case) of having updates submitted to the
database out of office hours, when the system's not in use. The plan is to
schedule a query at sometime like 2pm, and then have that cached for 16
hours or so.
I could see that as a great thing if it was static all the time but I dont
see you are being able to use that all the time for any longer
then you can safely say this data has not been changed yet.
I guess in each case you'll have to balance the pro's and con's, if there
were enough hits on a database from users requesting information, I'd be
happy (in most cases) for them to get 10 of 15 minute lagged data, if it
pushes up the response time. Normal caching rules apply :)
R'grds,
Dan.
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Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
exactly =) Bill Wheatley Director of Development AEPS INC Allaire ColdFusion Consulting Partner Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer http://www.aeps.com ICQ: 417645 http://www.aeps2000.com 954-472-6684 X303 IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachment to it is intended only to be read or used by the named addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistaken transmission to you. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. The RTA is not responsible for any unauthorized alterations to this e-mail or attachment to it - Original Message - From: "Cameron Childress" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:25 AM Subject: RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query) Do you have an need to worry about current data? Because if you hold that large data set too long how long is it before it becomes outdated and invalid? or does it stay static? Simple answer: If that's true for your app, don't use this feature. OR... every time you update the info in the DB, update your query object in RAM too. Here's another example of how it could be helpful: Allaire's Support Forums, everyone's used this right? What if the search results were stored in a query object which you could re-order by date, author, subject, at will without making a round trip to the DB. You could also do the "Get next 10 records" without going back to the db. Depending on how much ram you have on your machine and how many users are on it, you could probably browse the full message bodies without a round trip too. -Cameron Cameron Childress elliptIQ Inc. p.770.460.7277.232 f.770.460.0963 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
We have cached queries that hold information that is used on every page hit of the site. Every page returns a random record from the cached record set. Now, each of these records have links to products, and each record has several products associated with it. Ordinarily, the first link is displayed. However, in one section of the site, all of the products are displayed (sometimes these are recipe ingredients so let's assume that's the case). Below the section that lists the products is a section that has links to all recipes that contain that product. Now then (what does that phrase mean anyway?), I have cached queries that contain the recipes and the associated products but the query is run on the recipe id. However, to get the list of all recipes that contain a specified product, I'd have to use a significantly different query but one that contains all of the same fields, joined in a similar way. The only thing that changes is the search criteria: you are either searching by recipe id or you are searching by product id. In both cases, a lot of the same information is returned. Right now, this sucks. However, if I could load in a query of all recipe ids joined on the product ids and another list of the copy for the recipes joined on their recipe id (including the first product id), I could do this instead: 1) display the copy linked to the recipe id where that needs to happen (every page of the site) by outputting a random record from the copy/recipe id set 2) generate the list of ingredients by querying the recipe id/product id list for that recipe id 3) generate the list of recipes by querying the recipe id/product id list for the product id That means that instead of caching 100 recipe id/product id queries plus 500 product id/recipe id queries (or hitting the db every time or loading the records into a structure), I could cache 2 queries and query them as appropriate. It would be much simpler and would save resources lost to all other methods. Ding ding ding! At 03:09 PM 2/1/01 -0800, you wrote: I haven't thought of a kickass problem/solution that would need query a query ability so I'm happy that's it is there to use but not, stoked, at least not yet. =) Have not tested or even had the priv to touch 5.0 yet but isn't just query a query just a search option? So we can do a search for array values, structs, and now arrays which are in a way structs. Hmm..actually, I have yet to use structfind() with queries so I wouldn't know if that works already. Maybe with query a query you can isolate a range of records that fits a new condition on a existing query? but wouldn't that be a waste of ram and sql power to return a large query in the first place that you need to do sub queries on? Basically, I'm trying to find a good problem that would really need the feature and would speed up the performance while not wasting resources. Xing So who's stoked about the Query a Query ability? Pretty damn cool eh? Michael Buffington [EMAIL PROTECTED] (714) 556-3890 x222 http://www.price.com ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
I think this example illustrates one use of query of a query is when the cached queries contain de-normalized data. This is the same conclusion I came to when I cached a database in RAM in a Structure and wrote queries against the data in the Structure (which I later abandoned for cached queries, which were faster than the Structure approach). best, paul At 11:45 AM 2/2/01 -0600, you wrote: We have cached queries that hold information that is used on every page hit of the site. Every page returns a random record from the cached record set. Now, each of these records have links to products, and each record has several products associated with it. Ordinarily, the first link is displayed. However, in one section of the site, all of the products are displayed (sometimes these are recipe ingredients so let's assume that's the case). Below the section that lists the products is a section that has links to all recipes that contain that product. Now then (what does that phrase mean anyway?), I have cached queries that contain the recipes and the associated products but the query is run on the recipe id. However, to get the list of all recipes that contain a specified product, I'd have to use a significantly different query but one that contains all of the same fields, joined in a similar way. The only thing that changes is the search criteria: you are either searching by recipe id or you are searching by product id. In both cases, a lot of the same information is returned. Right now, this sucks. However, if I could load in a query of all recipe ids joined on the product ids and another list of the copy for the recipes joined on their recipe id (including the first product id), I could do this instead: 1) display the copy linked to the recipe id where that needs to happen (every page of the site) by outputting a random record from the copy/recipe id set 2) generate the list of ingredients by querying the recipe id/product id list for that recipe id 3) generate the list of recipes by querying the recipe id/product id list for the product id That means that instead of caching 100 recipe id/product id queries plus 500 product id/recipe id queries (or hitting the db every time or loading the records into a structure), I could cache 2 queries and query them as appropriate. It would be much simpler and would save resources lost to all other methods. Ding ding ding! At 03:09 PM 2/1/01 -0800, you wrote: I haven't thought of a kickass problem/solution that would need query a query ability so I'm happy that's it is there to use but not, stoked, at least not yet. =) Have not tested or even had the priv to touch 5.0 yet but isn't just query a query just a search option? So we can do a search for array values, structs, and now arrays which are in a way structs. Hmm..actually, I have yet to use structfind() with queries so I wouldn't know if that works already. Maybe with query a query you can isolate a range of records that fits a new condition on a existing query? but wouldn't that be a waste of ram and sql power to return a large query in the first place that you need to do sub queries on? Basically, I'm trying to find a good problem that would really need the feature and would speed up the performance while not wasting resources. Xing So who's stoked about the Query a Query ability? Pretty damn cool eh? Michael Buffington [EMAIL PROTECTED] (714) 556-3890 x222 http://www.price.com ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
On 2/2/01, Jim McAtee penned: Do we even know if this feature will allow you to query persistant queries (can it use a cached query?) or only queries from the current request? In CF currently, the query is in memory anyway, so adding the ability to run a query against it shouldn't really exact addtional memory requirements. Sounds like it could be an enormous memory hog if used as above. Yeah, I'd like to see them add a limit. Kind of like the 100 limit for Cached queries, but let you add a limit in KB. It doesn't do much good if you limit cached queries to 100 and then cache 5 MB queries on a server with 512 KB of RAM. Granted, those would be some bitchin' queries, but with the "query a query" option, I can see people storing some mighty large ones. Sounds like a way cool thing, but will probably end up being a little more problematic in a shared environment where the likelihood of taxing the resources would be higher. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
There never was an upper limit of 100. CF Admin notwithstanding. best, paul At 01:41 PM 2/2/01 -0500, you wrote: Yeah, I'd like to see them add a limit. Kind of like the 100 limit for Cached queries, but let you add a limit in KB. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
The benefits listed below diminishes if application operates under a load balanced environment since it's very hard to synchronize large cached queries or, any cached query for that matter, between servers. You can call all other servers when one is being updated but performance wise not a good idea unless you are getting huge returns. I disagree. If you set up your clustered envirtonment correctly, you should have all the server flush their cache when the database is updated or at a scheduled time. What we have done is actually have one server just run as the "commander" as we call it. When we make a site wide update, we have "the commander" send out to the other servers script commands to run (based on what it is we want them all to do). I don't see how this is "performancely wise" this isn't a good idea. If you don't keep all your servers exactly the same, then data corruption can occur. --=@ greg @=-- - Original Message - From: "Xing Li" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:54 PM Subject: Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query) The benefits listed below diminishes if application operates under a load balanced environment since it's very hard to synchronize large cached queries or, any cached query for that matter, between servers. You can call all other servers when one is being updated but performance wise not a good idea unless you are getting huge returns. If you cache a product description and that product description is updated but since each of the 3 clustered servers are holding a different cache you might have a public relations nightmare if those orders are placed based on an out-of-date description. xing - Original Message - From: "Jennifer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query) We have cached queries that hold information that is used on every page hit of the site. Every page returns a random record from the cached record set. Now, each of these records have links to products, and each record has several products associated with it. Ordinarily, the first link is displayed. However, in one section of the site, all of the products are displayed (sometimes these are recipe ingredients so let's assume that's the case). Below the section that lists the products is a section that has links to all recipes that contain that product. Now then (what does that phrase mean anyway?), I have cached queries that contain the recipes and the associated products but the query is run on the recipe id. However, to get the list of all recipes that contain a specified product, I'd have to use a significantly different query but one that contains all of the same fields, joined in a similar way. The only thing that changes is the search criteria: you are either searching by recipe id or you are searching by product id. In both cases, a lot of the same information is returned. Right now, this sucks. However, if I could load in a query of all recipe ids joined on the product ids and another list of the copy for the recipes joined on their recipe id (including the first product id), I could do this instead: 1) display the copy linked to the recipe id where that needs to happen (every page of the site) by outputting a random record from the copy/recipe id set 2) generate the list of ingredients by querying the recipe id/product id list for that recipe id 3) generate the list of recipes by querying the recipe id/product id list for the product id That means that instead of caching 100 recipe id/product id queries plus 500 product id/recipe id queries (or hitting the db every time or loading the records into a structure), I could cache 2 queries and query them as appropriate. It would be much simpler and would save resources lost to all other methods. Ding ding ding! At 03:09 PM 2/1/01 -0800, you wrote: I haven't thought of a kickass problem/solution that would need query a query ability so I'm happy that's it is there to use but not, stoked, at least not yet. =) Have not tested or even had the priv to touch 5.0 yet but isn't just query a query just a search option? So we can do a search for array values, structs, and now arrays which are in a way structs. Hmm..actually, I have yet to use structfind() with queries so I wouldn't know if that works already. Maybe with query a query you can isolate a range of records that fits a new condition on a existing query? but wouldn't that be a waste of ram and sql power to return a large query in the first place that you need to do sub queries on? Basically, I'm trying to find a good problem that would really need the feature and would speed up the performance while not wasting resource
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
If you cached the queries by storing them in application scoped structures that refresh on demand or on a timeframe, you can update the cache by sending a command to any page in the application. It would be simple to automate this across multiple servers if you can refer to the server by IP or distinct domain name. In this case, however, this isn't an issue anyway, since the data will probably not be updated for weeks at a time and never as an emergency. At 12:54 PM 2/2/01 -0800, you wrote: The benefits listed below diminishes if application operates under a load balanced environment since it's very hard to synchronize large cached queries or, any cached query for that matter, between servers. You can call all other servers when one is being updated but performance wise not a good idea unless you are getting huge returns. If you cache a product description and that product description is updated but since each of the 3 clustered servers are holding a different cache you might have a public relations nightmare if those orders are placed based on an out-of-date description. xing - Original Message - From: "Jennifer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query) We have cached queries that hold information that is used on every page hit of the site. Every page returns a random record from the cached record set. Now, each of these records have links to products, and each record has several products associated with it. Ordinarily, the first link is displayed. However, in one section of the site, all of the products are displayed (sometimes these are recipe ingredients so let's assume that's the case). Below the section that lists the products is a section that has links to all recipes that contain that product. Now then (what does that phrase mean anyway?), I have cached queries that contain the recipes and the associated products but the query is run on the recipe id. However, to get the list of all recipes that contain a specified product, I'd have to use a significantly different query but one that contains all of the same fields, joined in a similar way. The only thing that changes is the search criteria: you are either searching by recipe id or you are searching by product id. In both cases, a lot of the same information is returned. Right now, this sucks. However, if I could load in a query of all recipe ids joined on the product ids and another list of the copy for the recipes joined on their recipe id (including the first product id), I could do this instead: 1) display the copy linked to the recipe id where that needs to happen (every page of the site) by outputting a random record from the copy/recipe id set 2) generate the list of ingredients by querying the recipe id/product id list for that recipe id 3) generate the list of recipes by querying the recipe id/product id list for the product id That means that instead of caching 100 recipe id/product id queries plus 500 product id/recipe id queries (or hitting the db every time or loading the records into a structure), I could cache 2 queries and query them as appropriate. It would be much simpler and would save resources lost to all other methods. Ding ding ding! At 03:09 PM 2/1/01 -0800, you wrote: I haven't thought of a kickass problem/solution that would need query a query ability so I'm happy that's it is there to use but not, stoked, at least not yet. =) Have not tested or even had the priv to touch 5.0 yet but isn't just query a query just a search option? So we can do a search for array values, structs, and now arrays which are in a way structs. Hmm..actually, I have yet to use structfind() with queries so I wouldn't know if that works already. Maybe with query a query you can isolate a range of records that fits a new condition on a existing query? but wouldn't that be a waste of ram and sql power to return a large query in the first place that you need to do sub queries on? Basically, I'm trying to find a good problem that would really need the feature and would speed up the performance while not wasting resources. Xing So who's stoked about the Query a Query ability? Pretty damn cool eh? Michael Buffington [EMAIL PROTECTED] (714) 556-3890 x222 http://www.price.com ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
On 2/2/01, Greg Wolfinger penned: Just to let you know CF 4.5 does not have a query cache limit. Can you set one though? -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
Just to let you know CF 4.5 does not have a query cache limit. Can you set one though? The default number of cached queries allowed is 100. You can change in in the CF Administrator. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: The BETA IS OUT!!! (query a query)
I haven't thought of a kickass problem/solution that would need query a query ability so I'm happy that's it is there to use but not, stoked, at least not yet. =) Have not tested or even had the priv to touch 5.0 yet but isn't just query a query just a search option? So we can do a search for array values, structs, and now arrays which are in a way structs. Hmm..actually, I have yet to use structfind() with queries so I wouldn't know if that works already. Maybe with query a query you can isolate a range of records that fits a new condition on a existing query? but wouldn't that be a waste of ram and sql power to return a large query in the first place that you need to do sub queries on? Basically, I'm trying to find a good problem that would really need the feature and would speed up the performance while not wasting resources. Xing So who's stoked about the Query a Query ability? Pretty damn cool eh? Michael Buffington [EMAIL PROTECTED] (714) 556-3890 x222 http://www.price.com ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
