Re: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit

[Kym Kovan]

On 27/05/2010 13:22, BarryC wrote:

Hi,

After some more testing, thread dumps and operating system process
monitoring, we have found that there seems to be a performance issue
with files when accessed via NFS.
The slow part is when file attributes are being requested for a file
on the NFS (this was also shown in the thread dumps with the
getBooleanAttributes() function coming up a lot).


We have a client with a setup of a NAS (running FreeNas which is 
FreeBSD) with lots of files behind a few servers and so I took a peek 
into their CF logs and can see nothing like you are talking about below.


The files are mainly just being served up or saved by these servers so 
it is not quite the same as code files. It makes me wonder if the 
permissions aspect is the important one. You say NFS, do you mean that 
literally, not NTFS via samba (SMB) or something?


I might ask them if they mind us running some tests at the weekend when 
its quiet for them and see what we get.


Kym K



We have done a couple of tests with rather interesting results (we set
up a specific test that loops over some directories and looks at the
files in those directories, it does a fileExists(..) on each file in
those directories);

1. test local file access time.
2. test file access time via share mounted via NFS path e.g. \\server
\path\sharedfiles\
3. test file access time via an iSCSI mounted drive (still over the
network, but the operating system sees it as a lettered drive e.g. d:
\sharedfiles\

The local file access time was very fast, for the 20 folders it did it
in between 16ms and 50ms
The FMS access time was very slow, about 3 seconds for the same 20
folders (I'd expect some delay over the network, but this seems rather
a lot).
The iSCSI mount was surprisingly fast at about 130ms (indicating that
network latency time isn't really the issue?)

We're a bit stumped, and the systems guys have had a look at options
at the NFS end and there doesn't really seem to be much configuration
they can do there.

Kai, you mentioned that you run some of your servers with an NFS
share, but have no problems, how is your share implemented, do you run
it on Linux with the windows servers connecting to that?

Regards
Barry.





--

Yours,

Kym Kovan
mbcomms.net.au

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[goldcoast_nerd]

Adobe need to market CF better in ANZ i think. i was talking to a mate
who works in .NET last week and he still doesnt know about CF! i got
so pissed off nearly punched him.
But the companies are wrong if they claim there's not enough
developers. There's just not enough jobs here. thats why i either need
to learn another language(i love CF too much to do that) or move to UK
or US for a better future as a programmer(which is what i will do most
likely)

Shakti Misra
Adobe Certified Coldfusion Developer
shakti_...@hotmail.com

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit

[BarryC]

Yes I was going to mention that, I'm not sure what the story is with
that (I'm still wondering that myself) It's possible there were some
references still pointing to the shared drive or that the slowness was
masked by other things we have since fixed.
I'll might see if I can dig up the logs I had for that test.

Barry.

On May 27, 3:49 pm, "charlie arehart" 
wrote:
> Will be interesting to hear the resolution.
>
> I'll note that this was indeed one of the contentions I made in my first 
> reply on the
> thread, when I said that if you had files "on another server or SAN/NAS, that 
> i/o can
> be costly in some configurations (not inherently so, but worth considering)."
>
> But your reply was "I've done a test already to eliminate the Network File 
> Store by
> setting up a local copy on the server of the files and testing against that, 
> and the
> results were the same."
>
> So as a matter of understanding what happened, do you know why at the time 
> you got
> misled by that conclusion, which took us off the scent of that trail? Will 
> just be
> interesting, forensically. Thanks.
>
> /charlie
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On 
> > Behalf Of
> > BarryC
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:23 PM
> > To: cfaussie
> > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
>
> > Hi,
>
> > After some more testing, thread dumps and operating system process
> > monitoring, we have found that there seems to be a performance issue
> > with files when accessed via NFS.
> > The slow part is when file attributes are being requested for a file
> > on the NFS (this was also shown in the thread dumps with the
> > getBooleanAttributes() function coming up a lot).
>
> > We have done a couple of tests with rather interesting results (we set
> > up a specific test that loops over some directories and looks at the
> > files in those directories, it does a fileExists(..) on each file in
> > those directories);
>
> > 1. test local file access time.
> > 2. test file access time via share mounted via NFS path e.g. \\server
> > \path\sharedfiles\
> > 3. test file access time via an iSCSI mounted drive (still over the
> > network, but the operating system sees it as a lettered drive e.g. d:
> > \sharedfiles\
>
> > The local file access time was very fast, for the 20 folders it did it
> > in between 16ms and 50ms
> > The FMS access time was very slow, about 3 seconds for the same 20
> > folders (I'd expect some delay over the network, but this seems rather
> > a lot).
> > The iSCSI mount was surprisingly fast at about 130ms (indicating that
> > network latency time isn't really the issue?)
>
> > We're a bit stumped, and the systems guys have had a look at options
> > at the NFS end and there doesn't really seem to be much configuration
> > they can do there.
>
> > Kai, you mentioned that you run some of your servers with an NFS
> > share, but have no problems, how is your share implemented, do you run
> > it on Linux with the windows servers connecting to that?
>
> > Regards
> > Barry

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

RE: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit

[charlie arehart]

Will be interesting to hear the resolution. 

I'll note that this was indeed one of the contentions I made in my first reply 
on the
thread, when I said that if you had files "on another server or SAN/NAS, that 
i/o can
be costly in some configurations (not inherently so, but worth considering)."

But your reply was "I've done a test already to eliminate the Network File 
Store by
setting up a local copy on the server of the files and testing against that, 
and the
results were the same."

So as a matter of understanding what happened, do you know why at the time you 
got
misled by that conclusion, which took us off the scent of that trail? Will just 
be
interesting, forensically. Thanks.

/charlie


> -Original Message-
> From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
> Of
> BarryC
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:23 PM
> To: cfaussie
> Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
> 
> Hi,
> 
> After some more testing, thread dumps and operating system process
> monitoring, we have found that there seems to be a performance issue
> with files when accessed via NFS.
> The slow part is when file attributes are being requested for a file
> on the NFS (this was also shown in the thread dumps with the
> getBooleanAttributes() function coming up a lot).
> 
> We have done a couple of tests with rather interesting results (we set
> up a specific test that loops over some directories and looks at the
> files in those directories, it does a fileExists(..) on each file in
> those directories);
> 
> 1. test local file access time.
> 2. test file access time via share mounted via NFS path e.g. \\server
> \path\sharedfiles\
> 3. test file access time via an iSCSI mounted drive (still over the
> network, but the operating system sees it as a lettered drive e.g. d:
> \sharedfiles\
> 
> The local file access time was very fast, for the 20 folders it did it
> in between 16ms and 50ms
> The FMS access time was very slow, about 3 seconds for the same 20
> folders (I'd expect some delay over the network, but this seems rather
> a lot).
> The iSCSI mount was surprisingly fast at about 130ms (indicating that
> network latency time isn't really the issue?)
> 
> We're a bit stumped, and the systems guys have had a look at options
> at the NFS end and there doesn't really seem to be much configuration
> they can do there.
> 
> Kai, you mentioned that you run some of your servers with an NFS
> share, but have no problems, how is your share implemented, do you run
> it on Linux with the windows servers connecting to that?
> 
> Regards
> Barry


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] CFUG Melbourne TONIGHT! Want Pizza? Then RSVP!

[Peter Robertson]

Just a notice to those attending tonight's Melbourne CFUG that our UG
Manager Steve Onnis has ordered the food and drinks and these will be
served at 7PM.  If you're planning to come along, be there by 6.30 for
our general discussion spot, and please be sure to RSVP this post in
case Steve needs to increase the order to cover the numbers.

See you there!

Peter Robertson

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit

[BarryC]

Hi,

After some more testing, thread dumps and operating system process
monitoring, we have found that there seems to be a performance issue
with files when accessed via NFS.
The slow part is when file attributes are being requested for a file
on the NFS (this was also shown in the thread dumps with the
getBooleanAttributes() function coming up a lot).

We have done a couple of tests with rather interesting results (we set
up a specific test that loops over some directories and looks at the
files in those directories, it does a fileExists(..) on each file in
those directories);

1. test local file access time.
2. test file access time via share mounted via NFS path e.g. \\server
\path\sharedfiles\
3. test file access time via an iSCSI mounted drive (still over the
network, but the operating system sees it as a lettered drive e.g. d:
\sharedfiles\

The local file access time was very fast, for the 20 folders it did it
in between 16ms and 50ms
The FMS access time was very slow, about 3 seconds for the same 20
folders (I'd expect some delay over the network, but this seems rather
a lot).
The iSCSI mount was surprisingly fast at about 130ms (indicating that
network latency time isn't really the issue?)

We're a bit stumped, and the systems guys have had a look at options
at the NFS end and there doesn't really seem to be much configuration
they can do there.

Kai, you mentioned that you run some of your servers with an NFS
share, but have no problems, how is your share implemented, do you run
it on Linux with the windows servers connecting to that?

Regards
Barry.


On May 20, 11:52 am, BarryC  wrote:
> Hi Charlie, It's not a development box, it's a production box , our
> soon-to-be production site (well one of them), so everything on it is
> essentially enterprise.
> I did increase the IIS threads limit (as pointed out by someone
> earlier on in this thread) so I don't know if it would be IIS or not.
>
> The only things remaining now in the thread dumps aside from queries
> are reading and writing of files to disk and not much else - I would
> have expected to see more code level stuff but there is still a decent
> portion of file I/O.
> I'll get our systems chaps to have a look at the system I/O
> performance and see if they can find anything.
>
> the 150ms I mentioned was from the sum of those 21 file exists ,
> expand path checks. And yes it certainly must have been an issue
> because the performance has increased a lot - around 40 odd %.
>
> On May 20, 11:33 am, "charlie arehart" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks for the update. I don't know the answer to your question, but I'll 
> > share a
> > thought: you mention that you're load testing stuff. Is that perchance on a 
> > local
> > development box? If so, is it perhaps some trial or lower-end version of 
> > Win2k8? I
> > just ask because I know that in past Windows OS's, the lower-end versions 
> > did often
> > have limits built-in, especially (as many will have noticed) the number of
> > simultaneous IIS requests that are processed (others are queued).
>
> > It may well be that there could in fact be some I/O-level restrictions on 
> > too many
> > requests at once, which could be queued. That's a total guess and could be 
> > way off
> > base. Also, you may well be running an Enterprise or other high-end version 
> > of Windows
> > 2008. Just thought I'd ask, since you're raising the concern.
>
> > Now, all that said, is this 150ms the sum of the delay that you've been 
> > concerned
> > about? If so, then it would seem at least that you've found your root cause 
> > problem,
> > right? That's at least a step in the right direction and allows you to 
> > focus solely on
> > this one "last mile".
>
> > /charlie
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On 
> > > Behalf Of
> > > BarryC
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:45 PM
> > > To: cfaussie
> > > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
>
> > > I've done some debugging on this now, and each request is checking for
> > > roughly 21 files to see if they exist (which they don't). The path
> > > exists, but the file doesn't.
> > > I did a test and found 21 fileexists(expandpath(..)) checks to
> > > different files that don't exist takes around 150ms, quite a bit for
> > > each page request, but not something I would have thought that would
> > > show up so frequently in the thread dumps.
>
> > > are there operating system file I/O limits? I've got no idea when it
> > > comes to operating system I/O level performance, if two requests check
> > > to see if a file exists at the same time, does one have to wait for
> > > the other to finish?
>
> > > Barry.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "cfaussie" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups

Re: [cfaussie] Melbourne CFUG Reminder: Phil Haeusler on FW/1 (Framework One) Thursday 27 May

[Mark Mandel]

Me too.

Sent from my mobile device

On 27 May 2010 08:21, "Paul Kukiel"  wrote:

I'll be there.

Paul Kukiel
Http://blog.Kukiel.net



On 26/05/2010, at 8:45 PM, Peter Robertson  wrote:

> Just a reminder for a...

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[mpicker]

@Justin

We still haven't been able to fill your web developer position (for
those playing at home, Justin left here years ago), despite 3 or 4
rounds of advertising.  We only just finished another round.

So I'm guessing no chance that you will be coming back to Dubbo?

Of the small number of Institutes/departments using CF in our
organisation (NSW Department of Education and Training) more and more
are slowly removing CF, mostly due to the lack of developers, but also
because most managers aren't aware of what it is and what it can do.
Microsoft do a lot to promote their technology to us, while Adobe
(appear) to do stuff all, especially when it comes to CF.

We signed a multi million $ Enterprise Agreement with Adobe last year
and CF was left out of it.  If Adobe Australia was serious about CF
they would have pushed for CF to be included in the EA.

Cheers
Mark


On May 27, 4:34 am, Justin Carter  wrote:
> The timing of this discussion is interesting to me since I've been in
> Europe and the UK for the last 2 years and am heading back to Oz
> around August. I was also at SOTR 2010 in London for the last couple
> of days (and met Matt Bourke for the first time - Hi Matt!) and got to
> discussing the Aussie CF job market with a few other antipodeans. The
> market does seem quite flat to me compared to elsewhere in the world
> (even London, which was hit harder than Sydney or Melbourne by the
> world economy), but in saying that it's at least looking better than
> it was earlier this year when there were practically no new CF jobs
> being advertised - i.e. the last time one of these kind of discussions
> happened - so I am at least hopeful for my own prospects :)
>
> I also think Adobe ColdFusion is fairly well represented at
> conferences in Australia (compared to the UK) and WebDU has the chance
> to attract new developers to CF since WebDU is attended by a range of
> developers who use or dabble in other competing server-side languages.
> WebDU is probably somewhat unique in this regard compared to other
> conferences around the world where CF is represented.
>
> The migration away from CF issue is a tricky one... If the reason is
> because there is a lack of CF developers then that is something that
> we can work to solve as a community by reaching out to other web
> developers and introducing them to ColdFusion, and Adobe could solve
> by getting their (existing) CF educational materials into colleges and
> universities. If the reason isn't due to a lack of available CF
> developers then it's really something that is out of our hands as a
> community (I think?) - Adobe either needs to get Evangelists or Sales
> people talking to more CEO's/CIO's or to spend some cash in relevant
> publications to get the ColdFusion brand out there again. (They might
> already be doing this, but I have no way of knowing). No doubt it's a
> bit of both though...
>
> Can anyone remind me of who the CF-related Adobe guys are in
> Australia? Does Andrew Spaulding do CF stuff, and are there any
> others?
>
> cheers,
> Justin
>
> --
> Justin Carter (@justincarter)http://www.madfellas.com
>
> On May 26, 1:13 pm, Dale Fraser  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've spent the past 12 years as a CTO including 1 very small company,
> > 1 smallish public company and 1 big public company never had a cold
> > call from Microsoft at any of them
>
> > only people I get cold calls from are overseas offshore your development 
> > types
>
> > Dale Fraser
>
> > On Wednesday, May 26, 2010, Steve Onnis  wrote:
> > > There is already something on the Adobe site
> > > (http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/hosting/). God know how you get
> > > listed there
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Kai Koenig [mailto:k...@koeni.de]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 9:17 PM
> > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
>
> > > Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of 
> > > ColdFusion
> > > "hosting" happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the
> > > chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know
> > > there is hosting in the first place.
>
> > > Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to
> > > user groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something
> > > listing all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc.
>
> > > Cheers
> > > Kai
>
> > > On 26/05/2010, at 7:42 PM, Kym Kovan wrote:
>
> > >> On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:
> >  Where was CEBit?
>
> > >>> Sydney.
>
> > >> And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-(
>
> > >> The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or 
> > >> our
> > > segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not
> > > everything.
>
> > >> Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard 
> > >> of
>

[cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Karen Johnstone]

FYI, Ben Forta has a list of CF ISPs
http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/

Or, if new ANZ list is started, perhaps see if it can integrate?
(single point for data maintenance)

kj

On May 26, 9:16 pm, Kai Koenig  wrote:
> Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of ColdFusion 
> "hosting" happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the 
> chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know 
> there is hosting in the first place.
>
> Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to 
> user groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something 
> listing all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc.
>
> Cheers
> Kai
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Melbourne CFUG Reminder: Phil Haeusler on FW/1 (Framework One) Thursday 27 May

[Paul Kukiel]

I'll be there.

Paul Kukiel
Http://blog.Kukiel.net

On 26/05/2010, at 8:45 PM, Peter Robertson   
wrote:



Just a reminder for all Melbourne CFers, our next CFUG meeting is
drawing near.

As this is our brand new venue (thanks to Dale Fraser / CogState),
I'll repeat Dale's directions:

 "We are located at 255 Bourke Street.
 Which is kinda in the Mall. As the mall starts half way down
that block.
 The building is on the corner of Bourke & Swanston
 But the entrance is on the south side of Bourke, east of
Swanston opposite
 the Telstra T-Life store
 I will put a sign on the door, but if you cant find us, call
me and I'll
 come find you.

 0407 861 089

 Regards
 Dale Fraser"

Also, PLEASE RSVP so that Steve Onnis can estimate drinks and pizza
requirements.
Either post to this thread or RSVP at Adobe Groups.

This month Phil Haeusler is doing a presentation on FW/1 - Framework
One, 'The Invisible Framework'.

FW/1 is a new framework lead by Sean Corfield.   It leverages
Application.cfc and some simple conventions to provide a 'full' MVC
framework in a single file.
Intended to require near-zero configuration, FW/1 lets you build your
application without worrying about a framework getting in your way.

The session will cover
* Why bother with frameworks?
* Yet another ColdFusion Framework
* Getting started with FW/1
* Understanding the FW/1 lifecycle
* But what is MVC?
* Building a FW/1 app, and
* Looking towards the next release of FW/1 v1.1
* So, should we bother with FW/1?

Phil has been an independant ColdFusion consultant in Melbourne for
more than 10 years delivering on a vast number of solutions to public,
private and startup clients predominately focusing on ColdFusion, Flex
and other Adobe technologies.

We look forward to seeing you all there.

Peter Robertson

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
Groups "cfaussie" group.

To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en 
.




--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Chad Renando]

H Barry,

Yeah, people get hung on that word, like staff or bodies.  I care deeply for
the "people", and am in the process of developing personalised plans that
tap into not only work-related KPIs, but also non-work-related initiatives.

Many principles at our studio, such as: the higher you are, the more you
serve; and there is no fault, only cause.  Priciples that are proven by
action, not words.

Sorry if the word offended.  It is just a word, but don't take mine for it.
I believe my resources will attest for the intent and motives.  ;)

Look forward to catching up soon!

Chad

On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Barry Beattie wrote:

> "I love developing resources, working with them to realise their full
> potential."
>
> Resources, Chad?
>
> Forgive me for saying but you mean "people" don't you?
>
> People who have passion? who have failings? who have ... family?
>
> In my mind, there's a distinct difference. It's "people" who can have
> a symbiotic relationship employer/employee - including the goodwill of
> providing training to look to the future.
>
> "Resources" are simply to be used. Sucked dry like a dog removing the
> marrow out of a bone. Thrown on the scrap heap when all is spent.
>
> I suppose it's the difference between cooperation ... and prostitution.
>
> and if I haven't made my point clear, employers would do well in
> building up goodwill and loyalty with their employees if they simply
> cared about them - including providing training and career pathways to
> encourage them to stay instead of moving on.
>
> ... unless they're simply "resources" to be slotted in and out when needed.
>
> my 2c.
> barry.b
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "cfaussie" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Sean Corfield]

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Mark Mandel  wrote:
>> I'm surprised Railo hasn't appointed a rep out here romancing
>> universities in AU/NZ to get it rolling also.
>
> I was actually quite surprised Railo didn't push heavily into the ANZ region
> when they first started.

Negotiations have been underway for quite a while.

> That being said, they were here for cf.O(ANZ) last year (and hopefully again
> this year)

And webDU.
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Kai Koenig]

I hate to be the one to tell you, but there is no one in Adobe AU who really 
does CF - which is part of the problem imho.

Cheers
Kai

> 
> Can anyone remind me of who the CF-related Adobe guys are in
> Australia? Does Andrew Spaulding do CF stuff, and are there any
> others?
> 




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] CEBit

[Sean Corfield]

CeBIT Europe was a couple of months ago and CFML was represented there
by Railo. Sorry we couldn't also fly the flag at the Sydney event :(

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:03 AM, nomadic fish  wrote:
> (changing the subject, cos i am)
>
> Darling Harbour, mon-wed this week
> heaps of competitions, lots of lollies, quite a few pens.
> i learnt a few useful things.
> there was a lot of talk here about eWay last week, and they had a huge
> stall, with pretty girls handing out flyers and sales types who were very
> quick to take over the conversation if you sounded interested.
> lots of hand-held data projectors
> lots of government
>
> asd
>
> On 26/05/10 16:58, Dale Fraser wrote:
>
> Where was CEBit?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Dale Fraser
>
>
>
> http://dale.fraser.id.au
>
> http://cfmldocs.com
>
> http://learncf.com
>
> http://flexcf.com
>
>
>
> From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
> Of nomadic fish
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 4:50 PM
> To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
>
>
>
> and, you'll be able to apply for the JB job and get free music as well.
>
> i went to CEbit yesterday.  i noticed lots of the banners had the "microsoft
> certified" logo on them.   one or two tux-the-penguins.  only one adobe A,
> and none of the CF or FL product logos.  there were hundreds of stands,
> hundreds of banners, some of them must have built their stuff in flash, but
> they just weren't being asked or forced to advertise the fact.
>
> asd

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Justin Carter]

The timing of this discussion is interesting to me since I've been in
Europe and the UK for the last 2 years and am heading back to Oz
around August. I was also at SOTR 2010 in London for the last couple
of days (and met Matt Bourke for the first time - Hi Matt!) and got to
discussing the Aussie CF job market with a few other antipodeans. The
market does seem quite flat to me compared to elsewhere in the world
(even London, which was hit harder than Sydney or Melbourne by the
world economy), but in saying that it's at least looking better than
it was earlier this year when there were practically no new CF jobs
being advertised - i.e. the last time one of these kind of discussions
happened - so I am at least hopeful for my own prospects :)

I also think Adobe ColdFusion is fairly well represented at
conferences in Australia (compared to the UK) and WebDU has the chance
to attract new developers to CF since WebDU is attended by a range of
developers who use or dabble in other competing server-side languages.
WebDU is probably somewhat unique in this regard compared to other
conferences around the world where CF is represented.

The migration away from CF issue is a tricky one... If the reason is
because there is a lack of CF developers then that is something that
we can work to solve as a community by reaching out to other web
developers and introducing them to ColdFusion, and Adobe could solve
by getting their (existing) CF educational materials into colleges and
universities. If the reason isn't due to a lack of available CF
developers then it's really something that is out of our hands as a
community (I think?) - Adobe either needs to get Evangelists or Sales
people talking to more CEO's/CIO's or to spend some cash in relevant
publications to get the ColdFusion brand out there again. (They might
already be doing this, but I have no way of knowing). No doubt it's a
bit of both though...

Can anyone remind me of who the CF-related Adobe guys are in
Australia? Does Andrew Spaulding do CF stuff, and are there any
others?


cheers,
Justin

--
Justin Carter (@justincarter)
http://www.madfellas.com



On May 26, 1:13 pm, Dale Fraser  wrote:
> I've spent the past 12 years as a CTO including 1 very small company,
> 1 smallish public company and 1 big public company never had a cold
> call from Microsoft at any of them
>
> only people I get cold calls from are overseas offshore your development types
>
> Dale Fraser
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 26, 2010, Steve Onnis  wrote:
> > There is already something on the Adobe site
> > (http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/hosting/). God know how you get
> > listed there
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kai Koenig [mailto:k...@koeni.de]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 9:17 PM
> > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
>
> > Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of ColdFusion
> > "hosting" happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the
> > chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know
> > there is hosting in the first place.
>
> > Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to
> > user groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something
> > listing all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc.
>
> > Cheers
> > Kai
>
> > On 26/05/2010, at 7:42 PM, Kym Kovan wrote:
>
> >> On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote:
> >>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:
>  Where was CEBit?
>
> >>> Sydney.
>
> >> And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-(
>
> >> The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our
> > segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not
> > everything.
>
> >> Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of
> > us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train
> > and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise
> > occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation
> > comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior
> > cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has
> > heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than
> > the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are even considering
> > having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before
> > :-)
>
> >> So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again!
>
> >> --
>
> >> Yours,
>
> >> Kym Kovan
> >> mbcomms.net.au
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "cfaussie" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.goog

RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Steve Onnis]

With all your 2c's you must be pretty rich by now barry :) jokes!  Would
love to know what jb hifi execs would think about this discussion :) 

-Original Message-
From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 12:06 AM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

"I love developing resources, working with them to realise their full
potential."

Resources, Chad?

Forgive me for saying but you mean "people" don't you?

People who have passion? who have failings? who have ... family?

In my mind, there's a distinct difference. It's "people" who can have
a symbiotic relationship employer/employee - including the goodwill of
providing training to look to the future.

"Resources" are simply to be used. Sucked dry like a dog removing the
marrow out of a bone. Thrown on the scrap heap when all is spent.

I suppose it's the difference between cooperation ... and prostitution.

and if I haven't made my point clear, employers would do well in
building up goodwill and loyalty with their employees if they simply
cared about them - including providing training and career pathways to
encourage them to stay instead of moving on.

... unless they're simply "resources" to be slotted in and out when needed.

my 2c.
barry.b

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Barry Beattie]

"I love developing resources, working with them to realise their full
potential."

Resources, Chad?

Forgive me for saying but you mean "people" don't you?

People who have passion? who have failings? who have ... family?

In my mind, there's a distinct difference. It's "people" who can have
a symbiotic relationship employer/employee - including the goodwill of
providing training to look to the future.

"Resources" are simply to be used. Sucked dry like a dog removing the
marrow out of a bone. Thrown on the scrap heap when all is spent.

I suppose it's the difference between cooperation ... and prostitution.

and if I haven't made my point clear, employers would do well in
building up goodwill and loyalty with their employees if they simply
cared about them - including providing training and career pathways to
encourage them to stay instead of moving on.

... unless they're simply "resources" to be slotted in and out when needed.

my 2c.
barry.b

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Dale Fraser]

I've spent the past 12 years as a CTO including 1 very small company,
1 smallish public company and 1 big public company never had a cold
call from Microsoft at any of them

only people I get cold calls from are overseas offshore your development types

Dale Fraser

On Wednesday, May 26, 2010, Steve Onnis  wrote:
> There is already something on the Adobe site
> (http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/hosting/). God know how you get
> listed there
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kai Koenig [mailto:k...@koeni.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 9:17 PM
> To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
>
> Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of ColdFusion
> "hosting" happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the
> chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know
> there is hosting in the first place.
>
> Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to
> user groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something
> listing all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc.
>
> Cheers
> Kai
>
> On 26/05/2010, at 7:42 PM, Kym Kovan wrote:
>
>> On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:
 Where was CEBit?
>>>
>>> Sydney.
>>
>> And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-(
>>
>> The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our
> segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not
> everything.
>>
>> Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of
> us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train
> and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise
> occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation
> comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior
> cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has
> heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than
> the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are even considering
> having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before
> :-)
>>
>> So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again!
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Kym Kovan
>> mbcomms.net.au
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "cfaussie" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
>>
>
>
> --
> Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd
> ph: +64 4 476 6781 - mob: +64 21 928 365 /  +61 450 132 117
> web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz
> blog: http://www.bloginblack.de
> twitter: http://www.twitter.com/agentK
>
> Hands-on Regular Expression training @ webDU 2010
> http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-befriending-regular-expressions/
>
> Hands-on Flash Catalyst and Flex 4 training @ Webinale 2010
> http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-rias-with-flash-catalyst-and-flex-4/
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "cfaussie" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "cfaussie" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at  
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Steve Onnis]

There is already something on the Adobe site
(http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/hosting/). God know how you get
listed there 

-Original Message-
From: Kai Koenig [mailto:k...@koeni.de] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 9:17 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of ColdFusion
"hosting" happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the
chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know
there is hosting in the first place. 

Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to
user groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something
listing all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc.

Cheers
Kai

On 26/05/2010, at 7:42 PM, Kym Kovan wrote:

> On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote:
>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:
>>> Where was CEBit?
>> 
>> Sydney.
> 
> And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-(
> 
> The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our
segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not
everything.
> 
> Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of
us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train
and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise
occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation
comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior
cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has
heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than
the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are even considering
having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before
:-)
> 
> So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again!
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Kym Kovan
> mbcomms.net.au
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
> 


--
Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd
ph: +64 4 476 6781 - mob: +64 21 928 365 /  +61 450 132 117
web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz
blog: http://www.bloginblack.de
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/agentK

Hands-on Regular Expression training @ webDU 2010
http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-befriending-regular-expressions/

Hands-on Flash Catalyst and Flex 4 training @ Webinale 2010 
http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-rias-with-flash-catalyst-and-flex-4/
--







-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] Re: Melbourne CFUG Reminder: Phil Haeusler on FW/1 (Framework One) Thursday 27 May

[Gavin Baumanis]

Yup - I will be there and I will probably have our intern in tow
again, too.

Gavin.



On May 26, 8:45 pm, Peter Robertson  wrote:
> Just a reminder for all Melbourne CFers, our next CFUG meeting is
> drawing near.
>
> As this is our brand new venue (thanks to Dale Fraser / CogState),
> I'll repeat Dale's directions:
>
>           "We are located at 255 Bourke Street.
>           Which is kinda in the Mall. As the mall starts half way down
> that block.
>           The building is on the corner of Bourke & Swanston
>           But the entrance is on the south side of Bourke, east of
> Swanston opposite
>           the Telstra T-Life store
>           I will put a sign on the door, but if you cant find us, call
> me and I'll
>           come find you.
>
>           0407 861 089
>
>           Regards
>           Dale Fraser"
>
> Also, PLEASE RSVP so that Steve Onnis can estimate drinks and pizza
> requirements.
> Either post to this thread or RSVP at Adobe Groups.
>
> This month Phil Haeusler is doing a presentation on FW/1 - Framework
> One, 'The Invisible Framework'.
>
> FW/1 is a new framework lead by Sean Corfield.   It leverages
> Application.cfc and some simple conventions to provide a 'full' MVC
> framework in a single file.
> Intended to require near-zero configuration, FW/1 lets you build your
> application without worrying about a framework getting in your way.
>
> The session will cover
> * Why bother with frameworks?
> * Yet another ColdFusion Framework
> * Getting started with FW/1
> * Understanding the FW/1 lifecycle
> * But what is MVC?
> * Building a FW/1 app, and
> * Looking towards the next release of FW/1 v1.1
> * So, should we bother with FW/1?
>
> Phil has been an independant ColdFusion consultant in Melbourne for
> more than 10 years delivering on a vast number of solutions to public,
> private and startup clients predominately focusing on ColdFusion, Flex
> and other Adobe technologies.
>
> We look forward to seeing you all there.
>
> Peter Robertson

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Kai Koenig]

Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of ColdFusion 
"hosting" happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the 
chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know 
there is hosting in the first place. 

Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to user 
groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something listing 
all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc.

Cheers
Kai

On 26/05/2010, at 7:42 PM, Kym Kovan wrote:

> On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote:
>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:
>>> Where was CEBit?
>> 
>> Sydney.
> 
> And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-(
> 
> The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our 
> segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not everything.
> 
> Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of 
> us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train 
> and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise occasionally 
> then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation comes along who 
> have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior cfml developers 
> and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has heard of you. That is 
> why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than the once-a-month-or-so 
> squeak that I usually make. We are even considering having our own website! 
> Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before :-)
> 
> So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again!
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Kym Kovan
> mbcomms.net.au
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "cfaussie" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
> 


--
Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd
ph: +64 4 476 6781 - mob: +64 21 928 365 /  +61 450 132 117
web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz
blog: http://www.bloginblack.de
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/agentK

Hands-on Regular Expression training @ webDU 2010
http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-befriending-regular-expressions/

Hands-on Flash Catalyst and Flex 4 training @ Webinale 2010 
http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-rias-with-flash-catalyst-and-flex-4/
--







-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

RE: SPAM-LOW: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Cassie Woolley]

I totally agree, and I think that adding CF licenses on top of all those
costs as well as the need to support another product probably does not
encourage hosting companies to offer ColdFusion as an option.  Perhaps Adobe
already do deals for hosting companies but if they don't, that is maybe one
small way to encourage growth. Glad you replied because I often have people
ask me about ColdFusion hosting in Australia and I struggle to recommend one
because my experience with the ones I've had to deal with, including the one
that was alluded to earlier (that charges about 4 times as much as everyone
else) has not been good.

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steve Onnis
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:47 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

 

I agree with the Hosting point you made though there are a number of hosting
companies that do CF hosting that know what they are doing such as myself
(NovaHost), and FastHit to name a couple.  The issue of being competitive is
not an issue of CF, but more an issue of the high cost of setting up and
running IT infrastructure in Australia, the main one being the cost of
bandwidth within datacentres.  To give you an idea, I am in the middle of
moving datacentres and the cost per month is a little over 2k for a full
rack and some data and thats with no hardware, then the cost of hardware and
maintenance of that...its not a cheap exercise. Then adding the cost of
software and updates, it gets quite hight

 

  _  

From: Cassie Woolley [mailto:cas...@bluerocksoftware.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:39 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

Part of the issue for me has always been hosting.  Don't get me wrong, I
know there ARE hosts in Australia but I have found it difficult to find
competitive and reliable ColdFusion hosting with comparable service levels,
including staff that know ColdFusion really well and can support it
adequately.  Perhaps part of the push needs to be incentives to Australian
hosting companies to offer it as well as better training for their staff in
how to set it up and support it.

 

Years ago when I worked for WebRaven we pushed to get ColdFusion into the
curriculum of one of the universities.  I don't know if they have stuck with
it. If they are not already, then Adobe needs to find ways to get the next
generation trained up in ColdFusion and in Universities and even High
Schools is the best place to start with that. 

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Mandel
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:25 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

 

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Scott 
wrote:

but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the
product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia.


Again, I'll ask the question - HOW?

I honestly have no idea how firmware used to push it, I started CF just
around the end of firmware, so I missed out on it.

To be completely frank, I think IMHO Adobe is listening (they may be slow to
move, but they are listening) to what is happening in ANZ, but we're not
really giving them a clear message on what exactly we want done other than
'this sucks'.

We're being a bit of the quintessential client that is saying 'I don't like
it, but keep changing it and I'll tell you when I do', which we all know and
love.

I mean, we all complained about how hard/painful/etc it was the actually
just buy ColdFusion in ANZ, now there are dedicated resellers in the region
to help solve that problem.  Case in point, we presented a real problem, and
a solution was provided.

So what could Adobe be doing better?  If this question can be answered well,
I can put my ACP hat on with something I can actually take to Adobe, and
maybe a solution can be reached... or at least, a discussion can be started.

Mark

-- 
E: mark.man...@gmail.com
T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic
W: www.compoundtheory.com

cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia
http://www.cfobjective.com.au

Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training
www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to t

[cfaussie] Melbourne CFUG Reminder: Phil Haeusler on FW/1 (Framework One) Thursday 27 May

[Peter Robertson]

Just a reminder for all Melbourne CFers, our next CFUG meeting is
drawing near.

As this is our brand new venue (thanks to Dale Fraser / CogState),
I'll repeat Dale's directions:

  "We are located at 255 Bourke Street.
  Which is kinda in the Mall. As the mall starts half way down
that block.
  The building is on the corner of Bourke & Swanston
  But the entrance is on the south side of Bourke, east of
Swanston opposite
  the Telstra T-Life store
  I will put a sign on the door, but if you cant find us, call
me and I'll
  come find you.

  0407 861 089

  Regards
  Dale Fraser"

Also, PLEASE RSVP so that Steve Onnis can estimate drinks and pizza
requirements.
Either post to this thread or RSVP at Adobe Groups.

This month Phil Haeusler is doing a presentation on FW/1 - Framework
One, 'The Invisible Framework'.

FW/1 is a new framework lead by Sean Corfield.   It leverages
Application.cfc and some simple conventions to provide a 'full' MVC
framework in a single file.
Intended to require near-zero configuration, FW/1 lets you build your
application without worrying about a framework getting in your way.

The session will cover
* Why bother with frameworks?
* Yet another ColdFusion Framework
* Getting started with FW/1
* Understanding the FW/1 lifecycle
* But what is MVC?
* Building a FW/1 app, and
* Looking towards the next release of FW/1 v1.1
* So, should we bother with FW/1?

Phil has been an independant ColdFusion consultant in Melbourne for
more than 10 years delivering on a vast number of solutions to public,
private and startup clients predominately focusing on ColdFusion, Flex
and other Adobe technologies.

We look forward to seeing you all there.

Peter Robertson

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Simon Haddon]

I think that the Adobe CF support for people who already know the product is
great.

Where things lack is the cold calling of companies to talk about the
benefits of CF.  This is something that I believe should be driven Adobe the
same as MS do for their products.

On 26 May 2010 19:57, M@ Bourke  wrote:

> One had 200 staff and about 20 cf devs and present has around 300 staff and
> 7cf devs and 6 or so contract cf devs.
>
> Current product is intranet application used by governments but we are a
> private company, in other company we looked after household name e-commerce
> systems, so it would be understandable they'd want household names using
> there products, but thats only good for them if they're going to use that
> for marketing etc (which I don't remember them doing).
>
> Someone (non adobe employee) did tell me at SOTR that Adobe has a company
> policy that any staff talking at conferences about any adobe product
> regardless of what it is must first talk about the flash platform at the
> start of there speech.
>
> If this is the case they do have a marketing strategy for some products
>
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Mark Mandel wrote:
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> If you don't mind me asking, how big is the organization you work for?
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>> On 26 May 2010 19:17, "M@ Bourke" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've
>> worked for here we've had Forta in our office.
>> first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company
>> he came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales
>> pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM "about the coldfusion
>> thing".
>>
>> Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc
>> he would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see
>> them with our staff.
>>
>> Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a
>> meeting with management about cfbuilder.
>>
>> Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show
>> off there products.
>>
>> I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a
>> much bigger presence/budget at WebDU.
>> Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based
>>
>> Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "cfaussie" group.
>> To...
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "cfaussie" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "cfaussie" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
>



-- 
Cheers
Simon Haddon

Woman loves feeling danger and speed. That is why woman wants man.  They get
a speed rush that is the most dangerous of all.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[M@ Bourke]

One had 200 staff and about 20 cf devs and present has around 300 staff and
7cf devs and 6 or so contract cf devs.

Current product is intranet application used by governments but we are a
private company, in other company we looked after household name e-commerce
systems, so it would be understandable they'd want household names using
there products, but thats only good for them if they're going to use that
for marketing etc (which I don't remember them doing).

Someone (non adobe employee) did tell me at SOTR that Adobe has a company
policy that any staff talking at conferences about any adobe product
regardless of what it is must first talk about the flash platform at the
start of there speech.

If this is the case they do have a marketing strategy for some products

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Mark Mandel  wrote:

> Matt,
>
> If you don't mind me asking, how big is the organization you work for?
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> On 26 May 2010 19:17, "M@ Bourke" 
> wrote:
>
> I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've
> worked for here we've had Forta in our office.
> first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company
> he came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales
> pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM "about the coldfusion
> thing".
>
> Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc he
> would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see them
> with our staff.
>
> Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a
> meeting with management about cfbuilder.
>
> Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show
> off there products.
>
> I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a much
> bigger presence/budget at WebDU.
> Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based
>
> Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz?
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "cfaussie" group.
> To...
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "cfaussie" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Mark Mandel]

Matt,

If you don't mind me asking, how big is the organization you work for?

Sent from my mobile device

On 26 May 2010 19:17, "M@ Bourke"  wrote:

I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've worked
for here we've had Forta in our office.
first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company he
came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales
pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM "about the coldfusion
thing".

Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc he
would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see them
with our staff.

Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a
meeting with management about cfbuilder.

Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show
off there products.

I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a much
bigger presence/budget at WebDU.
Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based

Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz?



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"cfaussie" group.
To...

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[M@ Bourke]

I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've worked
for here we've had Forta in our office.
first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company he
came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales
pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM "about the coldfusion
thing".

Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc he
would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see them
with our staff.

Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a
meeting with management about cfbuilder.

Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show
off there products.

I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a much
bigger presence/budget at WebDU.
Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based

Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Kym Kovan]

On 26/05/2010 18:21, nomadic fish wrote:

hey Kym, it sounds like you're having the same problem CF is.
been around forever, in use all over the place, but invisible to
everyone who isn't actually being paid to look at it.


Yes well I certainly have been around for ever and we are certainly 
going to start to make noise to raise our visibility and cfml at the 
same time.



--

Yours,

Kym Kovan
mbcomms.net.au

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[nomadic fish]

hey Kym, it sounds like you're having the same problem CF is.
been around forever, in use all over the place, but invisible to
everyone who isn't actually being paid to look at it.

asd

On 26/05/10 17:42, Kym Kovan wrote:
> On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote:
>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:
>>> Where was CEBit?
>>
>> Sydney.
>
> And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-(
>
> The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or
> our segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not
> everything.
>
> Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had
> heard of us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going
> like a train and being very good at what you do but if you don't make
> a noise occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new
> generation comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the
> county's most senior cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts
> for nought if no-one has heard of you. That is why I am suddenly
> making a lot of noise rather than the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I
> usually make. We are even considering having our own website! Shock
> Horror! We've never done that properly before :-)
>
> So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again!
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Kym Kovan]

On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote:

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:

Where was CEBit?


Sydney.


And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-(

The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or 
our segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not 
everything.


Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard 
of us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a 
train and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise 
occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation 
comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most 
senior cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if 
no-one has heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise 
rather than the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are 
even considering having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done 
that properly before :-)


So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again!


--

Yours,

Kym Kovan
mbcomms.net.au

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Andrew Scott]

Yeah it might have been 1996/1997, I know it was well before I worked at ANZ
which was 1999/2000.


On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Robin Hilliard wrote:

> On 26/05/2010, at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
>
>
> So as Jeremy only wrote the first version in July, they were pretty quick
> off the mark - or are your dates out a bit? In 1996 at Andersen Consulting
> we had John Desborough (author of using ColdFusion 2.0) flown out to our
> office from the US for two days of training. We didn't use ColdFusion from
> that point onwards. It's a risky way to promote a product.
>
> Everything Firmware did, you could do now. Go get a reseller account with
> Express Data or Scholastic (or make a commission arrangement with Webqem or
> Daemon) and invite some people to lunch. Print out some CF brochures. Give a
> little talk. Hey it worked for Firmware until they went bust.
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

[cfaussie] CEBit

[nomadic fish]

(changing the subject, cos i am)

Darling Harbour, mon-wed this week
heaps of competitions, lots of lollies, quite a few pens.
i learnt a few useful things. 
there was a lot of talk here about eWay last week, and they had a huge
stall, with pretty girls handing out flyers and sales types who were
very quick to take over the conversation if you sounded interested.
lots of hand-held data projectors
lots of government

asd

On 26/05/10 16:58, Dale Fraser wrote:
>
> Where was CEBit?
>
>  
>
> Regards
>
> Dale Fraser
>
>  
>
> http://dale.fraser.id.au
>
> http://cfmldocs.com 
>
> http://learncf.com
>
> http://flexcf.com
>
>  
>
> *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com]
> *On Behalf Of *nomadic fish
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 4:50 PM
> *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
>
>  
>
> and, you'll be able to apply for the JB job and get free music as well.
>
> i went to CEbit yesterday.  i noticed lots of the banners had the
> "microsoft certified" logo on them.   one or two tux-the-penguins. 
> only one adobe A, and none of the CF or FL product logos.  there were
> hundreds of stands, hundreds of banners, some of them must have built
> their stuff in flash, but they just weren't being asked or forced to
> advertise the fact.
>
> asd
>
> On 26/05/10 16:19, Dale Fraser wrote:
>
> So your saying if I move to .NET I'll get more free lunches.
>
>  
>
> Now I finally understand why JB HI FI moved.
>
>  
>
> Regards
>
> Dale Fraser
>
>  
>
> http://dale.fraser.id.au
>
> http://cfmldocs.com 
>
> http://learncf.com
>
> http://flexcf.com
>
>  
>
> *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kai Koenig
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 3:38 PM
> *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
>
>  
>
> MSFT is doing a lot for .NET and Silverlight in NZ - pre-sales events
> from vendors, technical seminars for 2 hrs where folks on the CIO/CTO
> level are invited and attend etc, they invite you to free training
> events local and even oversees - and that's how you get a company to
> jump on a technology - decision makers are just humans after all. I'm
> not saying Adobe is NOT doing anything, they just don't do it for CF
> but rather for LC and Creative Suite and that _is_ a local office's
> decision imho. One example is a series of breakfast talks in hotels on
> the LC technology stack in AU/NZ - really cool event (I was at the
> Wellington one back then) and it brought the right folks to the event
> - exactly those managers mentioned above - speakers were Adobe people
> and other folks who've deployed and built solutions on LC (in AU). 
>
>  
>
> I agree with a lot of what Mark and Robin are saying, it's _also_ up
> to a community, but it's clear to me that Adobe is not putting the
> effort in they could and do for other technologies in the local
> markets when it comes to CF. That's really all I'm saying - and I
> doubt there's anything we can do about it.
>
>  
>
> Cheers
>
> Kai
>
>  
>
>  
>
> What are other companies out there doing? I.e. have people had
> experience with MS knocking on their door? Or any other platform?
> Anyone know first hand?
>
> (I'm still waiting for the PHP evangelists to come knocking).
>
> Mark
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, KC Kuok  > wrote:
>
> @Eliseo & Mike
>
> Yeah I track jobs about once a week to see how the market is
> travelling, TBH in australia it does not seem that it is improving or
> disappearing, its just stagnant atm, it is definitely not experiencing
> this explosive growth of CF jobs/dev chart that gets thrown about the
> past 2 years... In anycase i reckon most are indie Flex devs using CF
> as a backend, probably in the EU and USA where Railo and Adobe have
> major exposure.
>
> @ Mark & Others RE:Quesntion of how Adobe could do more to push CF
>
> I think CF needs more effort in Australia. Could start with pushing
> the entire platform (LifeCycle/CF and Flex front end), with the pros
> and cons. Maybe subsidise larger CF Houses like Daemon and Rocketboots
> to do like mini presentations to MANAGEMENT level people on CF.
> how they can do a project they wanted, but didnt have the
> "resources" (as in development time) and how LC/CF with Flex can
> overcome that.
>
> E.g. everyone knows Andrew Spaulding is part of Adobe Consultancy ANZ
> for Flex, but how many on the list know (if they exist) the people for
> CF and LifeCycle?
>
> Also another Idea i had is to have startups get a discount or rebate
> if they put a logo on their about page, like some cool CF badge that
> says "Powered by Adobe Coldfusion", Railo could also do the same
> "powered by Railo C

Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Chris Velevitch]

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser  wrote:
> Where was CEBit?

Sydney.


Chris
--
Chris Velevitch
Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
m: 0415 469 095
www.apugs.org.au

Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes
Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start
Details and RSVP on
http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.display&postid=22263

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"cfaussie" group.
To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

[Dale Fraser]

Where was CEBit?

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

http://dale.fraser.id.au

http://cfmldocs.com  

http://learncf.com

http://flexcf.com

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of nomadic fish
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 4:50 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

 

and, you'll be able to apply for the JB job and get free music as well.

i went to CEbit yesterday.  i noticed lots of the banners had the "microsoft
certified" logo on them.   one or two tux-the-penguins.  only one adobe A,
and none of the CF or FL product logos.  there were hundreds of stands,
hundreds of banners, some of them must have built their stuff in flash, but
they just weren't being asked or forced to advertise the fact.

asd

On 26/05/10 16:19, Dale Fraser wrote: 

So your saying if I move to .NET I'll get more free lunches.

 

Now I finally understand why JB HI FI moved.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

http://dale.fraser.id.au

http://cfmldocs.com  

http://learncf.com

http://flexcf.com

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kai Koenig
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 3:38 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet

 

MSFT is doing a lot for .NET and Silverlight in NZ - pre-sales events from
vendors, technical seminars for 2 hrs where folks on the CIO/CTO level are
invited and attend etc, they invite you to free training events local and
even oversees - and that's how you get a company to jump on a technology -
decision makers are just humans after all. I'm not saying Adobe is NOT doing
anything, they just don't do it for CF but rather for LC and Creative Suite
and that _is_ a local office's decision imho. One example is a series of
breakfast talks in hotels on the LC technology stack in AU/NZ - really cool
event (I was at the Wellington one back then) and it brought the right folks
to the event - exactly those managers mentioned above - speakers were Adobe
people and other folks who've deployed and built solutions on LC (in AU). 

 

I agree with a lot of what Mark and Robin are saying, it's _also_ up to a
community, but it's clear to me that Adobe is not putting the effort in they
could and do for other technologies in the local markets when it comes to
CF. That's really all I'm saying - and I doubt there's anything we can do
about it.

 

Cheers

Kai

 

 

What are other companies out there doing? I.e. have people had experience
with MS knocking on their door? Or any other platform? Anyone know first
hand?

(I'm still waiting for the PHP evangelists to come knocking).

Mark

On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, KC Kuok  wrote:

@Eliseo & Mike

Yeah I track jobs about once a week to see how the market is
travelling, TBH in australia it does not seem that it is improving or
disappearing, its just stagnant atm, it is definitely not experiencing
this explosive growth of CF jobs/dev chart that gets thrown about the
past 2 years... In anycase i reckon most are indie Flex devs using CF
as a backend, probably in the EU and USA where Railo and Adobe have
major exposure.

@ Mark & Others RE:Quesntion of how Adobe could do more to push CF

I think CF needs more effort in Australia. Could start with pushing
the entire platform (LifeCycle/CF and Flex front end), with the pros
and cons. Maybe subsidise larger CF Houses like Daemon and Rocketboots
to do like mini presentations to MANAGEMENT level people on CF.
how they can do a project they wanted, but didnt have the
"resources" (as in development time) and how LC/CF with Flex can
overcome that.

E.g. everyone knows Andrew Spaulding is part of Adobe Consultancy ANZ
for Flex, but how many on the list know (if they exist) the people for
CF and LifeCycle?

Also another Idea i had is to have startups get a discount or rebate
if they put a logo on their about page, like some cool CF badge that
says "Powered by Adobe Coldfusion", Railo could also do the same
"powered by Railo Coldfusion"

Railo could also do its part by setting up shop (or a presence) in
Australia maybe as a 2 or 3 year project, to see how it goes.

I reckon Red Hat has done well pushing its agenda in this part of the
world.

Conferences and UGs are all good for the CF community but it doesn't
really make anyone pick up CF if they are not using CF already...

BTW does anyone know is there any CF consultancy office (i.e.
Rocketboots, Daemon) based out of melb? I have heard of a few hybrid
one, was just thinking that day about any big CF consultancy houses in
melbourne and couldnt really put my finger on it.

PS:I know a few that offer a range including CF, just not focused on
CF like the forementioned 2 companies.

In the end it comes down to this, if Adobe does not push CF hard in
ANZAC region, people who actually signs the cheques will assume that
CF is dying because the company that owns it can't be bothered to sell
it.

Chong