Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Having attended Robin's Galaxy presentation here in Melbourne, I can honestly say it's far from a 'commerical message'. You're pretty off base there, and I'm not sure how you got there. It's a really interesting presentation on how you can really toy with ColdFusion's application architecture to get some seriously modular application architecture. It's pretty neat stuff, and I can honestly say that I always walk away from one of Robin's presentations with something new to think about. Mark On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: Oh so it's turned into a Rocketboots commercial message instead then? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Robin Hilliard ro...@rocketboots.com.au wrote: On 23/03/2010, at 3:56 PM, Chris Velevitch wrote: ColdFusion Application Architecture for the Impatient by Robin Hilliard Bare-bones Model View Controller and Service Oriented Architecture techniques with ColdFusion, no framework and a bit of attitude. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development, with examples from the RocketBoots site and client projects. The next meeting details and RVSP on http://groups.adobe.com/posts/148c9056a4 For those attending the talk has morphed into a talk about SOA and Galaxy - so I'm afraid there is a (very new) framework involved, but it's rather interesting and nothing to do with MVC. A better description might be: Replacing one big ColdFusion application with several simpler, collaborating and potentially distributed ColdFusion applications (aka services) is one way to tackle complexity in large projects, as long as the inter-service plumbing doesn't get in the way. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development as he demonstrates how to build and manage multiple services by extending RocketBoots Galaxy's Service.cfc, which is rather like Application.cfc, but different in interesting and useful ways... ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training @ cf.Objective() 2010 www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Sorry Mark, you read too much into it. I just asked a question with no implied meaning at all. However if Galaxy is 'alpha alpha alpha' as someone said on another thread, I have to wonder about the wisdom (for me) of spending that much time to hear about something that I wouldn't use in a fit. I never EVER use beta software, let alone alpha. Is Galaxy ready for prime time, or getting close to that stage? or is it, as that person said, 'alpha alpha alpha'? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Having attended Robin's Galaxy presentation here in Melbourne, I can honestly say it's far from a 'commerical message'. You're pretty off base there, and I'm not sure how you got there. It's a really interesting presentation on how you can really toy with ColdFusion's application architecture to get some seriously modular application architecture. It's pretty neat stuff, and I can honestly say that I always walk away from one of Robin's presentations with something new to think about. Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
I was there. Robin hammered home the alpha alpha alpha message, must had said alpha dozens of times And while I wouldn't use it in Alpha, it is very clever and a very nice concept and was interesting to learn what he had in mind. So not every talk is about what you will or wont use, this one is about showing you something that is being worked on, and for him to get feedback and ideas also. I think if you get the chance, it's worth going along and having a look. I always walk away from these things thinking everyone is smarter than me however, that's the only down side :( Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2010 5:41 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient Sorry Mark, you read too much into it. I just asked a question with no implied meaning at all. However if Galaxy is 'alpha alpha alpha' as someone said on another thread, I have to wonder about the wisdom (for me) of spending that much time to hear about something that I wouldn't use in a fit. I never EVER use beta software, let alone alpha. Is Galaxy ready for prime time, or getting close to that stage? or is it, as that person said, 'alpha alpha alpha'? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Having attended Robin's Galaxy presentation here in Melbourne, I can honestly say it's far from a 'commerical message'. You're pretty off base there, and I'm not sure how you got there. It's a really interesting presentation on how you can really toy with ColdFusion's application architecture to get some seriously modular application architecture. It's pretty neat stuff, and I can honestly say that I always walk away from one of Robin's presentations with something new to think about. Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Mike, As someone who regularly complains about the state of affairs in the CF community, and how hard it is to find work, I would have though that you would be at every CFUG in an attempt to help bolster the community, network with people, and learn something new that may, one day, help you out on a job down the road. I find your attitude quite surprising, actually, considering your stated position. Mark On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry Mark, you read too much into it. I just asked a question with no implied meaning at all. However if Galaxy is 'alpha alpha alpha' as someone said on another thread, I have to wonder about the wisdom (for me) of spending that much time to hear about something that I wouldn't use in a fit. I never EVER use beta software, let alone alpha. Is Galaxy ready for prime time, or getting close to that stage? or is it, as that person said, 'alpha alpha alpha'? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training @ cf.Objective() 2010 www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
I was also there and thought the concept was really great and even if things are pure alpha I think it's totaly worh while and I'm always walking away with new ideas. Robin is a great presenter and worth comming to a CFUG for. Paul Kukiel On 24/03/2010, at 5:00 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Having attended Robin's Galaxy presentation here in Melbourne, I can honestly say it's far from a 'commerical message'. You're pretty off base there, and I'm not sure how you got there. It's a really interesting presentation on how you can really toy with ColdFusion's application architecture to get some seriously modular application architecture. It's pretty neat stuff, and I can honestly say that I always walk away from one of Robin's presentations with something new to think about. Mark On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: Oh so it's turned into a Rocketboots commercial message instead then? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Robin Hilliard ro...@rocketboots.com.au wrote: On 23/03/2010, at 3:56 PM, Chris Velevitch wrote: ColdFusion Application Architecture for the Impatient by Robin Hilliard Bare-bones Model View Controller and Service Oriented Architecture techniques with ColdFusion, no framework and a bit of attitude. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development, with examples from the RocketBoots site and client projects. The next meeting details and RVSP on http://groups.adobe.com/posts/148c9056a4 For those attending the talk has morphed into a talk about SOA and Galaxy - so I'm afraid there is a (very new) framework involved, but it's rather interesting and nothing to do with MVC. A better description might be: Replacing one big ColdFusion application with several simpler, collaborating and potentially distributed ColdFusion applications (aka services) is one way to tackle complexity in large projects, as long as the inter-service plumbing doesn't get in the way. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development as he demonstrates how to build and manage multiple services by extending RocketBoots Galaxy's Service.cfc, which is rather like Application.cfc, but different in interesting and useful ways... ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training @ cf.Objective() 2010 www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
I dont think its appropriate for you to bring private conversations i have had with you into the public domain like this In fact i am very annoyed that you have done that. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, As someone who regularly complains about the state of affairs in the CF community, and how hard it is to find work, I would have though that you would be at every CFUG in an attempt to help bolster the community, network with people, and learn something new that may, one day, help you out on a job down the road. I find your attitude quite surprising, actually, considering your stated position. Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Actually Mike everything he's referred to you have air regularly and often on this mailing list... Toby On 24/03/2010, at 6:53 PM, Mike Kear wrote: I dont think its appropriate for you to bring private conversations i have had with you into the public domain like this In fact i am very annoyed that you have done that. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, As someone who regularly complains about the state of affairs in the CF community, and how hard it is to find work, I would have though that you would be at every CFUG in an attempt to help bolster the community, network with people, and learn something new that may, one day, help you out on a job down the road. I find your attitude quite surprising, actually, considering your stated position. Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Mike, Everything I just said, you have publicly stated. For example: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:60733 Anyway, these are the reasons i think the trends tell me ColdFusion is either a dead duck of soon to be a dead duck at least in Sydney anyway. [A] there is almost no new development going on in ColdFusionIn the last 12 months there has been just a handful of coldfusion jobs advertised. And most of those have been advertised by time-wasters who didnt end up appointing anyone. I'm sorry Mike, they've put that project on hold for now ... yada yada yada (or so they said maybe they were just too gutless to tell me i didnt get the assignment) In the last 12 months i have had NOT ONE assignment as a result of any advertisements for CF developers. If I hadnt dug up business on my own I'd have starved. Contrast this with a few years ago when freelancers like me had jobs lined up one behind the other. Maybe its just me, maybe everyone else has lots of jobs lined up. But somehow i doubt it. [B] There is next-to no apparent activity in the Usergroups on coldfusion, at least as far as I've seen. I can find other public messages you have posted with similar comments if need be. There have been more than a few. I've not exposed anything private. The real message here is - if you want your community to grow, then participate in it. I'm not saying anything more than that, and it's a message I've pushed over and over again to anyone who will listen. Mark On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Toby Tremayne t...@lyricist.com.au wrote: Actually Mike everything he's referred to you have air regularly and often on this mailing list... Toby On 24/03/2010, at 6:53 PM, Mike Kear wrote: I dont think its appropriate for you to bring private conversations i have had with you into the public domain like this In fact i am very annoyed that you have done that. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training @ cf.Objective() 2010 www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
As to regularly complaining about the state of affairs of CF - i have started one thread lamenting the lack of activity on Adobe's part in selling ColdFusion about a year or so ago, and I joined a discussion along with many others about 5 years ago. Apart from that, despite some people's impressions to the contrary, I have kept my comments as positive as possible. I should also say that the last time i raised this lack of activity in Sydney, I was roundly criticised for saying it. The arguments mostly goign along the lines of you must be wrong about no activity in Sydney because there are HEAPS of new servers going in right here in name of town.I was bounced off the wall by one pillar of the coldfusion community for daring to criticise Adobe, only to get a private email a day later from this same person (well connected inside Adobe) saying that he believed that Adobe senior management and Macromedia's before them had considered the Australian subsidiary as less than brilliant when it came to ColdFusion. (actually he was a lot more blunt than that!) In other words, this person who you all know said YOU'RE WRONG! on the CF-talk list, and I quite agree Mike in private. I should also say that i have spent a lot of my life in major accounts and government IT sales. I know what's involved in a major sale to a blue chip and government organisation. I managed a sales budget of $30million and 50 sales, support and admin staff before i got in the web business. I know when sales people are telling flim-flam and I know what we ought to be seeing if Adobe were making a big effort to sell more CF servers or LiveCycle servers. And i dont see any of it. So its unfair for you to characterise me as 'regularly complaining'. I tell the truth as i see it, and i saw that as an important issue at the time. Incidentally I'm not going to say any more about that issue I dont want to raise this whole mess again - i only say anything now because you were unfair characterising me that way. I'm not going to be drawn into a discussion of that point again - I made my opinions clear at the time, and even offered help to Adobe if they wanted it. But I guess they didn't. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, As someone who regularly complains about the state of affairs in the CF community, and how hard it is to find work, I would have though that you would be at every CFUG in an attempt to help bolster the community, network with people, and learn something new that may, one day, help you out on a job down the road. I find your attitude quite surprising, actually, considering your stated position. Mark On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry Mark, you read too much into it. I just asked a question with no implied meaning at all. However if Galaxy is 'alpha alpha alpha' as someone said on another thread, I have to wonder about the wisdom (for me) of spending that much time to hear about something that I wouldn't use in a fit. I never EVER use beta software, let alone alpha. Is Galaxy ready for prime time, or getting close to that stage? or is it, as that person said, 'alpha alpha alpha'? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training @ cf.Objective() 2010 www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
No, Toby. I rarely post on CF-Aussie on anything other than technical matters. Because that's what the list is for. Mark Mandell is confused about that too - he quoted me apparently on this list, but the list he's quoting is the CF-TALK list. I have been involved in two threads (meaning multiple messages in a discussion) along the lines you're referring to on CF-TALK not here. Because those threads got heated, they made quite an impact, rather as the CFBUILDER one has here. I had a number of people putting words in my mouth and i felt the need to correct that. Many times. I made some deliberately provocative statements in order to try to tweak some comment from Adobe about the issue, but no response came from anyone in Adobe's sales/marketing area. I post here on CFAUSSIE about technical issues. Either asking questions or sometimes answering them. I'm sorry to everyone else for going on about this but i cant let an incorrect perception go unchallenged. I seem to have acquired this image of being negative, but if anyone in the coldfusion development community had talked to me in the last 2 years, they'd know that i am what my son (a product manager for one of the world's largest IT distributors) called 'the optimist, even when there isnt much to be optimistic about'. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Toby Tremayne t...@lyricist.com.au wrote: Actually Mike everything he's referred to you have air regularly and often on this mailing list... Toby On 24/03/2010, at 6:53 PM, Mike Kear wrote: I dont think its appropriate for you to bring private conversations i have had with you into the public domain like this In fact i am very annoyed that you have done that. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Mike, you and I are very alike we say it like we see it. I only have one thing to say, as the message that seems to be drummed into us. Is that we should get involved in our UG, well what if that user group meets like 3 times a year? If the UG managers can't organise a place for a community to get together, on a regular basis like it is supposed to be once a month, why should we feel like we are the ones not doing enough? The buck starts at the top, and it drifts down into the trenches. Adobe should be doing the marketing, promoting the product and getting into the companies faces with incentives like Microsoft does. That would get more people interested to even attend these user groups to begin with, it's not my job to be a marketing / sales guru for a company that can't get off their ass and do it, in a country that is seriously lacking the work and developers to support the product. -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2010 7:15 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient As to regularly complaining about the state of affairs of CF - i have started one thread lamenting the lack of activity on Adobe's part in selling ColdFusion about a year or so ago, and I joined a discussion along with many others about 5 years ago. Apart from that, despite some people's impressions to the contrary, I have kept my comments as positive as possible. I should also say that the last time i raised this lack of activity in Sydney, I was roundly criticised for saying it. The arguments mostly goign along the lines of you must be wrong about no activity in Sydney because there are HEAPS of new servers going in right here in name of town.I was bounced off the wall by one pillar of the coldfusion community for daring to criticise Adobe, only to get a private email a day later from this same person (well connected inside Adobe) saying that he believed that Adobe senior management and Macromedia's before them had considered the Australian subsidiary as less than brilliant when it came to ColdFusion. (actually he was a lot more blunt than that!) In other words, this person who you all know said YOU'RE WRONG! on the CF-talk list, and I quite agree Mike in private. I should also say that i have spent a lot of my life in major accounts and government IT sales. I know what's involved in a major sale to a blue chip and government organisation. I managed a sales budget of $30million and 50 sales, support and admin staff before i got in the web business. I know when sales people are telling flim-flam and I know what we ought to be seeing if Adobe were making a big effort to sell more CF servers or LiveCycle servers. And i dont see any of it. So its unfair for you to characterise me as 'regularly complaining'. I tell the truth as i see it, and i saw that as an important issue at the time. Incidentally I'm not going to say any more about that issue I dont want to raise this whole mess again - i only say anything now because you were unfair characterising me that way. I'm not going to be drawn into a discussion of that point again - I made my opinions clear at the time, and even offered help to Adobe if they wanted it. But I guess they didn't. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: I only have one thing to say, as the message that seems to be drummed into us. Is that we should get involved in our UG, well what if that user group meets like 3 times a year? Then offer to take over the UG and do a better job. The change doesn't neccessarily have to come from the top - 9/10 times it comes from the trenches up. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training @ cf.Objective() 2010 www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Ok my turn We actually had quite a few meetings last year, and even if we did only have 3 meetings, they are all well broadcasted and plenty of notification is given so you couldn't even make it to 3 meetings? Seriously, everyone who is involved with any user group should be applauded for the effort they put in, what ever their capacity is and those who scald them should keep their traps shut. Being involved in an organisation capacity for the user groups is a voluntary thing and give what ever time they can, hence why we have co-managers. It is comments like this that make people not want to come and serve no purpose other than to bring down the groups rather than having any positive impact at all. As Mark hinted at, instead of complaining how about contributing. Again i would like to emphasise my appreciation for people like Mark, Robin and everyone else who puts their hand up to contribute to theirs and other user groups. Without people like them driving the groups and donating their valuable time we wouldnt have user groups at all. _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2010 8:09 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: I only have one thing to say, as the message that seems to be drummed into us. Is that we should get involved in our UG, well what if that user group meets like 3 times a year? Then offer to take over the UG and do a better job. The change doesn't neccessarily have to come from the top - 9/10 times it comes from the trenches up. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training @ cf.Objective() 2010 www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Andrew, please dont make this worse than it already is. I asked a simple question, that Mark Mandel thought was a sideswipe at Robin, but was never intended that way, and now its turned into a huge Mike Kear bashed Adobe mess. I wasnt criticising anyone, just asking a question that came out like it was a criticism. I dont want to be drawn into that all over again. It got out of hand then and its going out of hand now. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: Mike, you and I are very alike we say it like we see it. I only have one thing to say, as the message that seems to be drummed into us. Is that we should get involved in our UG, well what if that user group meets like 3 times a year? If the UG managers can't organise a place for a community to get together, on a regular basis like it is supposed to be once a month, why should we feel like we are the ones not doing enough? The buck starts at the top, and it drifts down into the trenches. Adobe should be doing the marketing, promoting the product and getting into the companies faces with incentives like Microsoft does. That would get more people interested to even attend these user groups to begin with, it's not my job to be a marketing / sales guru for a company that can't get off their ass and do it, in a country that is seriously lacking the work and developers to support the product. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Steve / Mark, First of all this was not an entire dig at you guys, the point is that there are very few Melbourne UG's each year. That can be a downer to most, because it can come across as why would I bother to turn up to something that can't be run regularly, or no sorry but that topic doesn't interest me. You can't please everyone all the time, but even just regular meetings would be a start. From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Onnis Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2010 8:27 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient Ok my turn We actually had quite a few meetings last year, and even if we did only have 3 meetings, they are all well broadcasted and plenty of notification is given so you couldn't even make it to 3 meetings? Seriously, everyone who is involved with any user group should be applauded for the effort they put in, what ever their capacity is and those who scald them should keep their traps shut. Being involved in an organisation capacity for the user groups is a voluntary thing and give what ever time they can, hence why we have co-managers. It is comments like this that make people not want to come and serve no purpose other than to bring down the groups rather than having any positive impact at all. As Mark hinted at, instead of complaining how about contributing. Again i would like to emphasise my appreciation for people like Mark, Robin and everyone else who puts their hand up to contribute to theirs and other user groups. Without people like them driving the groups and donating their valuable time we wouldnt have user groups at all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
On 24/03/2010, at 9:05 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: Steve / Mark, First of all this was not an entire dig at you guys, the point is that there are very few Melbourne UG’s each year. That can be a downer to most, because it can come across as why would I bother to turn up to something that can’t be run regularly, or no sorry but that topic doesn’t interest me. You can’t please everyone all the time, but even just regular meetings would be a start. In their defence, one of the UG managers was organising a major international conference, you might have heard about it ;-). The managers can only do so much. If you're not having a dig at them, then who _is_ supposed to supply regular user group meetings in Melbourne? Most UG managers worldwide completely agree with you about regular meetings being important (and prompt kickoffs as per Matthew's comment in February). Peter Robertson has stepped into the co-manager role (with Steve) for the Melbourne CFUG and is focussing on getting a regular meeting schedule together. I think his main difficulty has been finding speakers - thus the invitation for me to fly down for the first one last week which I gladly accepted. If you want regular meetings, you can help by speaking at one. Why not have Peter post the dates on the list and everyone can pitch in with a talk at some point over the next year. If you're short I can fly down again, but surely there's plenty of CFers in Melbourne who could talk about something to fill up the other 11 spots? Mr Buzzy, Phil, Dale, Gavin, Chris, Matthew ... Cheers, Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
On 23/03/2010, at 3:56 PM, Chris Velevitch wrote: ColdFusion Application Architecture for the Impatient by Robin Hilliard Bare-bones Model View Controller and Service Oriented Architecture techniques with ColdFusion, no framework and a bit of attitude. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development, with examples from the RocketBoots site and client projects. The next meeting details and RVSP on http://groups.adobe.com/posts/148c9056a4 For those attending the talk has morphed into a talk about SOA and Galaxy - so I'm afraid there is a (very new) framework involved, but it's rather interesting and nothing to do with MVC. A better description might be: Replacing one big ColdFusion application with several simpler, collaborating and potentially distributed ColdFusion applications (aka services) is one way to tackle complexity in large projects, as long as the inter-service plumbing doesn't get in the way. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development as he demonstrates how to build and manage multiple services by extending RocketBoots Galaxy's Service.cfc, which is rather like Application.cfc, but different in interesting and useful ways... ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] CFBuilder Launch and CF App Architecture for the Impatient
Oh so it's turned into a Rocketboots commercial message instead then? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Robin Hilliard ro...@rocketboots.com.au wrote: On 23/03/2010, at 3:56 PM, Chris Velevitch wrote: ColdFusion Application Architecture for the Impatient by Robin Hilliard Bare-bones Model View Controller and Service Oriented Architecture techniques with ColdFusion, no framework and a bit of attitude. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development, with examples from the RocketBoots site and client projects. The next meeting details and RVSP on http://groups.adobe.com/posts/148c9056a4 For those attending the talk has morphed into a talk about SOA and Galaxy - so I'm afraid there is a (very new) framework involved, but it's rather interesting and nothing to do with MVC. A better description might be: Replacing one big ColdFusion application with several simpler, collaborating and potentially distributed ColdFusion applications (aka services) is one way to tackle complexity in large projects, as long as the inter-service plumbing doesn't get in the way. Join Robin Hilliard in his continuing quest to add elegance and strip complexity from ColdFusion development as he demonstrates how to build and manage multiple services by extending RocketBoots Galaxy's Service.cfc, which is rather like Application.cfc, but different in interesting and useful ways... ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
