Re: [CinCVS] Re: "Cin-3"
Martin Ellison schrieb: > Many developers will already be familiar with the Model-View-Controller > paradigm, but for non developers, it is important that we follow this in > designing Cin3. Martin, you are right here: we need a bit of Architecture, and I can asure you, we started already in this manner. We have 3 layers, a high-level and a low-level model (each separated into several concerns), we use several controllers and dispatch operations etc. If you are interested, please take a look in our design documentation, which is in a lokal wiki within the source tree. Some days ago, I've put a current Snapshot to: http://ichthyostega.de/cin3/ Follow the link "design documentation"... (in the Proc-Layer Wiki you will find even some UML diagrams ;-) cheers, Hermann V. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCVS] User interface toolkits and "Cin-3" -- WARNING, marquitux ´s long post.
>> why do we need mpeg2 support >> at all? I did videography work for a few years and never had a need >> for that. Convert your mpeg to a real editing format and go from >> there. For that matter, I prefer image sequences. Give me an example >> of a single program that natively handles mpeg2 video and I'll show >> you 4 that don't. what? wake up, mpeg2 is being used in all the market MPEG2, XDCAM, mpeg-DVB, if I am working in news, and some one comes with an old DVD with images that you can´t find it anywhere else, YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT MPEG OUT to use in your timeline, even cellphones videos are used in news. why matrox, canopus and pinnacle will spend a lot of money to have REALTIME MPEG EDITING products? you think the market is wrong? and most times, TV shows like we have in may country has to save everything on disc, and data-DVD with mpeg2 files is the most economic answer (every 28 minutes tv show you can have 5 hours of unused footage... maybe you want someday reuse that as FILE material, but you need encode if FAST). having sequences IS NOT the solution for TV shows, pease name 1 IN THE WORLD which is edited with image sequences... I work in a TV equipment supply business... I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW IF SOMEBODY IN THE WORKD EDITS WITH IMAGE SEQUENCES or even better pack them in an avi, and go back 15 years back to M-jpeg... I don´t know any tv show edited fully with mpeg2 files, but there are 4 TV shows (planeta surf, surflife, MDQ surf and locosXelsurf) here in my town alone, SURFING related, that uses 90 % of images from its sponsor´s DVDs, like quicksilver and others, because those producers can´t traver the whole world weekly to find waves.. so they use DVD provided by the sponsor (he other 10% is DV or DVCAM recorder in our beach) the local news: Telefe noticias, telenueve, and 25 other TV news (that I know) uses MPEG2 or mpeg 4 from cellphones in its production, so the editor don´t have to convert anything (they use ADOBE PREMIERE PRO CS3 which USES MPEG2). EL OJO CURIOSO, COMUNIDAD PORTUARIA, EL SHOW DE LOS NUMEROS... those are SOME of the TV shows I have worked for in a studio until 2006 , they all use MPEG at somepoint. the cable operator asks the TV shows in MPEG2-PS for emision, and sometimes, they OPEN YOUR TV SHOW to put adds between yours. this is just my short experience, AVIDV (unfortunately), QT-DV, and MPEG-2 are the most speaded formats in the industry... what is .DV? is it compatible with something? I love RAWDV, but you can´t FIT a NLE if you can´t deliver industry standard formats. I hope you can give that to cinelerra, if cinelerra embraces industry standards, many companies will be interested in making bussiness, an maybe you could find some sponsoring there, or even if some CIN3 foundations is stablished, you couls make bussiness with matrox which will release the SDK, but they will SELL the hardware.., so maybe a editing linux box with REALTIME OPTION for matrox RT.X2 would be GREAT, believe me. leave that door open. Sory for being critic again, and write so much. Marquitux from Argentina. _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Tuning Video Playback
Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 23:58 +0100 schrieb Terje J. Hanssen: > My available homePC w/Cinelerra on openSUSE 10.2 is an old, less > powerful K7 w/ATI Rage128RF graphical card, SB0312 Audigy LS (modern) > audio card, 512MB memory and a sliced 80GB Maxtor-5T060H6 hard disk. > > 3) VLC > Opens the file in a wrong 4:3 aspect window. > . > Is it possible to get VLC to open the file in a correct 16:9 window, and > preferably scale it to fit the display width? > Hello Terje, I did succeed to get the aspect right with VLC only by using the ~/.vlc/vlcrc file. VLC has configurable optionions for starting in Full screen mode and for preselecting a given aspect ratio and deinterlace method (and much more). You can either change these values via GUI and then safe the settings, or you can hand edit the vlcrc file (it's quite well commented but has tons of options). (As usual, being a hacker, I just have a shellscript somewhere and an assortment of vlcrc files for various setups (playing DVD, playing HDV, playing DV). I didn't do much research, but for me VLC was the /only/ media player capable to display the 1080i HDV footage correct, i.e. with increased framerate, so it looks as smooth as on an external interlaced monitor. You need the deinterlace method "linear" (doing linear interpolation of the missing lines, gives a slightly blurred look) or "bob". The other deinterlace methods have the usual 25Hz flicker (which many people praise as "real film look"). I saw smooth HDV playback with VLC in this setup on some Celeron Laptops (about 2 GHz + nvidia proprietary driver), but probably this will be to much for your machine. But maybe it works with the downscale you mention. Have you setup VLC to use the XV output? PS: VLC does the same smoth playback for normal DV interlaced material, but of course, here the usual artifacts are much more noticeable) Cheers, Hermann Vosseler ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCVS] cine 2.1cv gentoo svn r1047 crashes when loading files?
running gentoo i upgraded to Cinelerra 2.1CV Gentoo - SVN r1047
loading any video file cine crashes:
$ cinelerra
Cinelerra 2.1CV Gentoo - SVN r1047 (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd.
External ffmpeg
Compiled on Wed Jan 30 21:01:37 CET 2008
Cinelerra is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License,
and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under
certain conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for Cinelerra.
signal_entry: got SIGSEGV my pid=22742 execution table size=16:
mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1595
mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1606
mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1609
mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1134
mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1139
mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1142
mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1144
filemov.C: filemov.C: 100
filemov.C: filemov.C: 102
filemov.C: filemov.C: 104
mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1147
mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1151
mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1153
vrender.C: run: 414
vrender.C: process_buffer: 103
vrender.C: process_buffer: 113
signal_entry: lock table size=14
0x1e64450 CWindowTool::input_lock CWindowTool::run
0x1f2f910 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run
0x1e8b140 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event
0x1ea98d0 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event
0x1dc64e0 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event
0x1fdf510 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event
0x1f30310 MainIndexes::input_lock MainIndexes::run 1
0x1f324f0 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event
0x1dc4d00 BC_SynchronousCommand::command_done
BC_Synchronous::send_command
0x1e89760 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run
0x1e29b70 Canvas::canvas_lock Playback3D::clear_output_sync *
0x1dc4dd0 Cinelerra: Compositor Playback3D::clear_output_sync *
0x1dc4dd0 Cinelerra: Compositor (null)
0x1b27810 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event
BC_Signals::dump_buffers: buffer table size=0
BC_Signals::delete_temps: deleting 0 temp files
SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0
Aborted
is this a setting prob or s.th. more complicated?
my use flags are as follows:
# eix cinelerra
[I] media-video/cinelerra-cvs
Available versions: (~)20080115 {3dnow alsa altivec css esd
ieee1394 mmx opengl oss static truetype}
Installed versions: 20080115(09:07:02 PM 01/30/2008)(alsa esd
ieee1394 opengl static truetype -3dnow -altivec -css -mmx -oss)
Homepage:http://cvs.cinelerra.org/
Description: Cinelerra - Professional Video Editor -
Unofficial CVS-version
thanks again!
jan luo
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Re: [CinCVS] [Announce] First Open Video Developer meeting ((ex-)Cinelerra3)
Did I miss something? Was the name decided? By the way, if not decided, the subject line Christian wrote makes me think of OVENg (Open Video Editor Next gen) or some derivative. Not on the wiki yet, though. :) Tom K. Some time ago we proposed to make regular developer meetings on IRC but > we did not finally decide about dates an times. > > http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/DesignProcess/MonthlyDeveloperMeetingOnIRC > > In the past days there was quite some discussion on different > Mailinglists about technical details. I think it is a good time to pick > the idea about an regular meeting up and do some low-noise talk about > actual developments. > > The first meeting will be at > > Friday the 1. February 2008 at 21:00 GMT > > on irc.freenode.net in #openvideo > > Invited is anyone who want to be involved with the Video Editor we are > planning as well as Developers of other/similar projects. > > I prepared a page for brainstorming things to be talked about: > http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/MonthlyMeetings > > Feel free to add ideas there. > > > See you Friday > Christian > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra > ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
[CinCVS] [Announce] First Open Video Developer meeting ((ex-)Cinelerra3)
Some time ago we proposed to make regular developer meetings on IRC but we did not finally decide about dates an times. http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/DesignProcess/MonthlyDeveloperMeetingOnIRC In the past days there was quite some discussion on different Mailinglists about technical details. I think it is a good time to pick the idea about an regular meeting up and do some low-noise talk about actual developments. The first meeting will be at Friday the 1. February 2008 at 21:00 GMT on irc.freenode.net in #openvideo Invited is anyone who want to be involved with the Video Editor we are planning as well as Developers of other/similar projects. I prepared a page for brainstorming things to be talked about: http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/MonthlyMeetings Feel free to add ideas there. See you Friday Christian ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Tangent: New codec in ffmpeg
The nice thing about ingex is sdi capture. Currently The only option for HD workflow is dvgrab hdv which is mpeg2. There is no way to capture uncompressed hd in linux. Yes it requires TB drives but thats what it takes to do real work. Until that becomes a reality ANY linux based nle is relegated to the dustbin of history. Another option would be a driver for say http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/ which is a good bang for the buck. I'd pay a bounty for that and perhaps evan throw in a card? any takers? Daniel On Jan 30, 2008 1:57 PM, Richard Spindler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/1/30, Daniel Jircik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > also from BBC > > http://dirac.sourceforge.net./ > > Dirac certainly has a huge potential, not only because it is free and > open, but also because an organisation with significant momentum is > behind it. Apart from that, the BBC really understand video, the are > also doing "Dirac Pro" which is intended to be a profile of the dirac > codec suitable for production and editing. I'd definitly love to play > around with that. ;-) > > Cheers > -Richard > > -- > Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra >
Re: [CinCVS] Tangent: New codec in ffmpeg
2008/1/30, Daniel Jircik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > also from BBC > http://dirac.sourceforge.net./ Dirac certainly has a huge potential, not only because it is free and open, but also because an organisation with significant momentum is behind it. Apart from that, the BBC really understand video, the are also doing "Dirac Pro" which is intended to be a profile of the dirac codec suitable for production and editing. I'd definitly love to play around with that. ;-) Cheers -Richard -- Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Tangent: New codec in ffmpeg
Actually I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw that on Groklaw Here's a link to the sourceforge page: http://ingex.sourceforge.net./ also from BBC http://dirac.sourceforge.net./ Cin3 ? Kind Regards Daniel On Jan 30, 2008 12:25 PM, Thomas King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I may be assuming out of ignorance, but this seems like it'd be of > interest: > "[A]n open source developer was contracted to develop a DVCPRO50 codec for > ffmpeg which resulted in a better decoder than many of the hardware based > decoders, according to Cunningham." > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;58613278;pp;1;fp;16;fpid;1 > > Tom K. > --- > "Concern for man and his fate must always form the chief interest of all > technical endeavors. Never forget this in the midst of your diagrams and > equations." --Albert Einstein > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra >
[CinCVS] Tangent: New codec in ffmpeg
I may be assuming out of ignorance, but this seems like it'd be of interest: "[A]n open source developer was contracted to develop a DVCPRO50 codec for ffmpeg which resulted in a better decoder than many of the hardware based decoders, according to Cunningham." http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;58613278;pp;1;fp;16;fpid;1 Tom K. --- "Concern for man and his fate must always form the chief interest of all technical endeavors. Never forget this in the midst of your diagrams and equations." --Albert Einstein ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
Are you aware that cinelerra is very multithreaded, an a, ... well, strange Way? qt should be okay, though, I could agree to that. 2008/1/30, Timothy Baldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Have you ever programmed a highly multithreded application? > > Yep. And done correctly (from the beginning) it's not that hard. The > important thing is decouple to gui from the rest of the code as much > as possible. This is why I recommend QT. Allot of the gui code is > thread safe, and when it's not, their threading tools are top notch. > And they even have support for Read/write mutexes (or is it > mutexies?). Really a NLE is the simplest program to multi-thread. > Every part of it is embarrassingly parallel. > > Timothy > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra > -- Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] presentation to the list
On Jan 29, 2008 4:24 PM, candela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hello > > thanks a lot for the work to make cinelerra aviable to the community. > i have just subscribe to learn more and see if i can collaborate with you. > i am not a developer. > i am an activist on barcelona (spain) that uses free software. > ga and valentina are my teachers :) > i am helping other people to learn cinelerra and not to suffer (its not > eassy to start) > so maybe i can help to take input from new people that comes from the > video world (or not) and tell to you what can be inproved from their > point of view...?¿? > or work that part in your wiki from the info that you tell to me. > > or whatever that can be done from a nondeveloper person. > > thanks thanks thanks for all your hard work :) > Hi Candela, Since you joined irc I believe you've found plenty of ways to help out, it's really great that you are so eager to jump on board and help in any way you can. Just in case this list seems quite focused on developers and power Cinelerra users I thought I'd mention that there are plenty of ways that non-technical people can help out and really help move development along. I added a page to the wiki with a couple of ideas for how to get involved: http://cvs.cinelerra.org/docs/wiki/doku.php?id=getinvolved I can imagine plenty of other areas too, perhaps research, support on irc etc. so please add to this. Perhaps a couple of concrete tasks that people could do in 30 mins or so would be useful too? -- goibhniu ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
> Have you ever programmed a highly multithreded application? Yep. And done correctly (from the beginning) it's not that hard. The important thing is decouple to gui from the rest of the code as much as possible. This is why I recommend QT. Allot of the gui code is thread safe, and when it's not, their threading tools are top notch. And they even have support for Read/write mutexes (or is it mutexies?). Really a NLE is the simplest program to multi-thread. Every part of it is embarrassingly parallel. Timothy ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
2008/1/30, Timothy Baldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Another thing I thought of once, is why can't we decouple the GUI from > the underlying media handling code enough to make the gui > multitasking. For instance, start a tape importing, and a project > encoding, and then start editing another project. Sure there will be a > performance hit, but with the systems we have available today, this > should be possible (to some degree). Have you ever programmed a highly multithreded application? -- Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
> Really, UI Design is not that hard. The underlying technical > foundations are. When seeking is slow, or importing media takes half > an hour, all the fancy screenshots and buttons can be all bling and > shiny, and it still sucks. I read an article once about how preceived performance is linked to GUI responsiveness. For instance, a Quad core rendering a file in 2 minutes will seem slower than a single core taking 8 minutes to render a file if the quad's GUI is locked up (with no user feedback) while rendering. So keeping the gui responsive is a must. Another thing I thought of once, is why can't we decouple the GUI from the underlying media handling code enough to make the gui multitasking. For instance, start a tape importing, and a project encoding, and then start editing another project. Sure there will be a performance hit, but with the systems we have available today, this should be possible (to some degree). Timothy ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
2008/1/30, Timothy Baldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > To quote you, "no offense intended", but why do we need mpeg2 support > at all? I did videography work for a few years and never had a need > for that. Convert your mpeg to a real editing format and go from > there. For that matter, I prefer image sequences. Give me an example > of a single program that natively handles mpeg2 video and I'll show > you 4 that don't. Premiere, FCP, Flint/Effect, After Effects, they > don't. mpeg is a distribution format never, ever, edit in mpeg2 it > looks like trash compared to DV and uncompressed video. The only > reason I can think of where I'd want mpeg2 is for editing DVDs and > hopefully we're reaching for a bigger audience than that. HDV == MPEG2 HDV is getting more popular. Reencoding to a "real editing format" takes A) Time B) Much more diskspace. (No matter how much diskspace you have, it tends to get filled, so don't waste it) and C) Some people would like to preserve their footage in the form that it was originally captured in. And above all, it CAN be done (see libmpeg3, it is almost complete!!) therfore it HAS to be done! Cheers -Richard PS.: We want it for mpeg4 too, AVCHD == MPEG4 -- Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
2008/1/30, Timothy Baldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > What open source applications do you
> > think fit this description? Surely The GIMP and Blender are out ("no
> > offense intended" to continue the thread).
>
> That's the issue, when it comes to the GUI, almost all of Linux is
> out. I can't think of a single app I was floored by that I said "this
> GUI is awesome" except for Blender. But I'm sure to get assassinated
> for saying that ;-). When it comes to NLEs though I'd say FCP has a
> nice design. Enough hot-keys to make it fast, but it still has enough
> buttons to make it usable for new users. Finding that balance is hard.
> Blender is blazing fast once you know how to use it. The forums are
> filled with users who say that they can model twice in fast with
> Blender than in Maya (in fact some model in Blender and then export to
> Maya) but for new users it is hard.
There is plenty of information available online, and in books about
User Interface Design, User Interaction Design, Usability Testing,
etc...
Apart from that, the "Standard" UI of a NLE is pretty much fixed, they
all have a timeline, a Preview, and Selection of assorted Buttons
sprinkled over the Rest of the UI.
Really, UI Design is not that hard. The underlying technical
foundations are. When seeking is slow, or importing media takes half
an hour, all the fancy screenshots and buttons can be all bling and
shiny, and it still sucks.
Cheers
-Richard
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Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
> What open source applications do you
> think fit this description? Surely The GIMP and Blender are out ("no
> offense intended" to continue the thread).
That's the issue, when it comes to the GUI, almost all of Linux is
out. I can't think of a single app I was floored by that I said "this
GUI is awesome" except for Blender. But I'm sure to get assassinated
for saying that ;-). When it comes to NLEs though I'd say FCP has a
nice design. Enough hot-keys to make it fast, but it still has enough
buttons to make it usable for new users. Finding that balance is hard.
Blender is blazing fast once you know how to use it. The forums are
filled with users who say that they can model twice in fast with
Blender than in Maya (in fact some model in Blender and then export to
Maya) but for new users it is hard.
Timothy
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Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:22:54 +0100, Timothy Baldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No offense intended, but is anyone up to the task and willing to either add the following missing functionality to libmpeg3 or another mpeg2 decoder, or can point me to a piece of code in the free software community that does the following: Accurate Seeking + Fast inaccurate seeking without Image corruption + GOP extraction + Access to stream infos such as Field-Order and PAR and Chroma placement. To quote you, "no offense intended", but why do we need mpeg2 support at all? I did videography work for a few years and never had a need for that. Convert your mpeg to a real editing format and go from there. For that matter, I prefer image sequences. Give me an example of a single program that natively handles mpeg2 video and I'll show you 4 that don't. Premiere, FCP, Flint/Effect, After Effects, they don't. mpeg is a distribution format never, ever, edit in mpeg2 it looks like trash compared to DV and uncompressed video. The only reason I can think of where I'd want mpeg2 is for editing DVDs and hopefully we're reaching for a bigger audience than that. Um, and for HDV. Or XDCAM, for that matter. Temporally compressed video as aquisition formats are becoming _more_ common. Not less. Your statement would have been appropriate 5 years ago. Not today. -- Herman Robak ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
> Sure, anyone can create a gui, but who can create a good looking gui
> that's both fast and intuituve? That's a hard find.
>
Here, here! I know we need to focus on the underlying pieces, but I am
wondering if there is anyone out there in the greater open source
community that we think has a talent for the above. And, if there is,
would it be possible to get them to work with us on just the gui piece
(when the time comes of course)? What open source applications do you
think fit this description? Surely The GIMP and Blender are out ("no
offense intended" to continue the thread).
--
Thanks,
Aaron Newcomb
http://www.thesourceshow.org
http://www.opennewsshow.org
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Re: [CinCVS] "Cin-3"
Or you could do what Blender does (www.blender.org) and use Opengl for the entire GUI. That way it's accelerated as well, and you're not bound to any platform. For those who don't have OpenGL (which is about %0.0001 of the users) you can always statically link to mesa. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
> No offense intended, but is anyone up to the task and willing to > either add the following missing functionality to libmpeg3 or another > mpeg2 decoder, or can point me to a piece of code in the free software > community that does the following: > > Accurate Seeking + Fast inaccurate seeking without Image corruption + > GOP extraction + Access to stream infos such as Field-Order and PAR > and Chroma placement. To quote you, "no offense intended", but why do we need mpeg2 support at all? I did videography work for a few years and never had a need for that. Convert your mpeg to a real editing format and go from there. For that matter, I prefer image sequences. Give me an example of a single program that natively handles mpeg2 video and I'll show you 4 that don't. Premiere, FCP, Flint/Effect, After Effects, they don't. mpeg is a distribution format never, ever, edit in mpeg2 it looks like trash compared to DV and uncompressed video. The only reason I can think of where I'd want mpeg2 is for editing DVDs and hopefully we're reaching for a bigger audience than that. Sure, anyone can create a gui, but who can create a good looking gui that's both fast and intuituve? That's a hard find. Timothy ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
Can we stop that GUI funny talk? GUIs are easy cheesy, everyone can start a dialog editor drag some buttons to a canvas and write some code that is run when the button is pressed. :-P Lets talk about the serious stuff. ;-) No offense intended, but is anyone up to the task and willing to either add the following missing functionality to libmpeg3 or another mpeg2 decoder, or can point me to a piece of code in the free software community that does the following: Accurate Seeking + Fast inaccurate seeking without Image corruption + GOP extraction + Access to stream infos such as Field-Order and PAR and Chroma placement. Additionally it would be nice if the decoder could reproduce the encoding params of a given File and feed those to an mpeg2 encoder. And of course the API should be nice and clean and easy to use, for examples of decent API design look at libsndfile and libquicktime. Thanks, and have fun -Richard ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
QT is very easy to use and powerful, but it normally wants to dictate how the gui is coded. moc, uic, and qmake need to be the backbone of the project. If you use these tools, building QT applications can be easy and painless (I speak from experience), but you are forced into their coding styles. If possible, I'd like to mention FOX GUI. It's fast, stable and has a good feature set. Another good one is FLTK. Until recently Nuke used it before switching to QT(I think). Both of these are fast and powerful, but they do give that '90's look. Which I don't mind, but some may. Still QT is nice for theming seeing as it supports CSS styling for widgets. Just some thoughts. Timothy ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
Burkhard Plaum wrote: > Hi, > > Richard Spindler schrieb: >> 2008/1/30, Gour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> Martin> (For Qt), Is it possible for the community (ie anyone outside >>> Martin> TrollTech) to write user interface widgets? Cin3 will need to >>> Martin> write some specialist widgets -- how will this fit in with the >>> Martin> toolkit and the toolkit's development process? >>> >>> No idea. Let me just say that GTK+ toolkit is getting native on Mac OS >>> X, works on Win and it's not property of Nokia ;) >> >> Writing Custom Widgets is possible in every Toolkit, and Qt has been >> "native" OSX for a long time. But indeed, GTK seems to catch up. >> >> Discussing Toolkits is pointless btw. without someone actually writing >> the Code for said toolkit. > > Actually I didn't want to participate in toolkit discussions, but if we > agree, that > > 1. All plugin interfaces are C because this is the smallest common base to make it bindable to other languages. The idea is to make the plugin interface easy bindable to other languages. > > 2. Plugins should be allowed to make their own configuration widgets > > we are already restricted to a C-toolkit or not? C binding would be sufficent, and it should not do too much, just being an UI toolkit and not expect we will use its object system/types for anything else than the GUI. > > Burkhard > > ___ > Cinelerra mailing list > Cinelerra@skolelinux.no > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Poor MPEG and DV! :-) (was Re: "Cin-3")
> > It looks to me like "How can I use raw (containerless) DV?" is pretty high > > up > > on the list of most frequently asked questions, and the answer people get > > is > > "You can't." > Wrong. The answer people get is "Yes! You can!" > > I heard people saying that Raw DV is the best format for source files in > Cin. My experience confirms it. > Using Quicktime/DV I was persecuted by this bug: > http://bugs.cinelerra.org/show_bug.cgi?id=463 Hmm, interesting. I must admit that I've never observed this myself with HV cinelerra and I have done audio cross-fades from time to time. I realise that this isn't completely useful on the CV mailing list but it might be a helpful datapoint none-the-less. Regards jonathan ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] "Cin-3"
Hi, Graham Evans schrieb: Thinking about distributed rendering, plugins should of course never assume an X11-connection. Can't we have rendering that uses Open GL hardware acceleration then? If OpenGL support is available, it should be possible to use it of course. But if not, things should work as well. IMO OpenGL support is a hardware dependant optimization (pretty much like MMX/SSE), which can be detected at runtime and used if possible. Burkhard ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: "Cin-3"
Well, as far as DV is concerned, the _codec_ DV works, if it's in an AVI or Quicktime container. That's what libdv is used for. Raw DV may still be broken. I gave up using containerless DV long ago. No raw dv -containerless- seems to work fine now (Thanks to Baver and some other...) It's my preferred intermediate format for some things. Graham ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
2008/1/30, Burkhard Plaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 1. All plugin interfaces are C > > 2. Plugins should be allowed to make their own configuration widgets > > we are already restricted to a C-toolkit or not? *cough* xembed *cough* -- Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
2008/1/30, Martin Ellison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Discussing Toolkits is pointless btw. without someone actually writing > > the Code for said toolkit. > > Best to think about what code we are going to write before we start writing > the code. We don't want to spend two years coding and then find that we > should have taken a different approach. About 5% of the total effort needs > to go on planning and tracking. For every widely available Toolkit on Linux, big and capable applications were written, so obviously they are all up to the task. He who happens to write the GUI gets to choose the Toolkit, and nobody else gets to complain. ;-) Cheers -Richard -- Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] "Cin-3"
Thinking about distributed rendering, plugins should of course never assume an X11-connection. Can't we have rendering that uses Open GL hardware acceleration then? (And then of course distributed rendering with hardware acceleration on the nodes...) ...long long long term wish list of course Graham Burkhard ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
Hi, Richard Spindler schrieb: 2008/1/30, Gour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Martin> (For Qt), Is it possible for the community (ie anyone outside Martin> TrollTech) to write user interface widgets? Cin3 will need to Martin> write some specialist widgets -- how will this fit in with the Martin> toolkit and the toolkit's development process? No idea. Let me just say that GTK+ toolkit is getting native on Mac OS X, works on Win and it's not property of Nokia ;) Writing Custom Widgets is possible in every Toolkit, and Qt has been "native" OSX for a long time. But indeed, GTK seems to catch up. Discussing Toolkits is pointless btw. without someone actually writing the Code for said toolkit. Actually I didn't want to participate in toolkit discussions, but if we agree, that 1. All plugin interfaces are C 2. Plugins should be allowed to make their own configuration widgets we are already restricted to a C-toolkit or not? Burkhard ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Re: "Cin-3"
Many developers will already be familiar with the Model-View-Controller paradigm, but for non developers, it is important that we follow this in designing Cin3. The key concepts are: - split between the user interface (views and controllers) and the back end (model) - split across functionality areas, so that the back end is divided into multiple models and each of these has its own views and controllers. Thus the functionality area of Chroma Key Plugin might have a model that records the relevant parameters (key colour, fuzz factor etc) and applies them to a film clip, and the view/controller will display these parameters as a dialog box and allow modification to the values. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
On 30/01/2008, Richard Spindler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Discussing Toolkits is pointless btw. without someone actually writing > the Code for said toolkit. > Best to think about what code we are going to write before we start writing the code. We don't want to spend two years coding and then find that we should have taken a different approach. About 5% of the total effort needs to go on planning and tracking. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and "Cin-3"
2008/1/30, Gour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Martin> (For Qt), Is it possible for the community (ie anyone outside > Martin> TrollTech) to write user interface widgets? Cin3 will need to > Martin> write some specialist widgets -- how will this fit in with the > Martin> toolkit and the toolkit's development process? > > No idea. Let me just say that GTK+ toolkit is getting native on Mac OS > X, works on Win and it's not property of Nokia ;) Writing Custom Widgets is possible in every Toolkit, and Qt has been "native" OSX for a long time. But indeed, GTK seems to catch up. Discussing Toolkits is pointless btw. without someone actually writing the Code for said toolkit. -- Are you teaching the What and the How but without the Why and the When? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
Re: [CinCVS] Leopard patch
I've seen that you replaced 'objcopy' by a custom 'bin2c'. Can you make this into a patch that is not Darwin specific? This should hopefully work on all platforms! The problem is that there are no binutils available for MacOS. bin2c.diff Description: Binary data
