Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Excuse me for this rant. I'm not trying to be the content cop, I just wanted to make an observation. Do we no longer have an Associate list as well as the Professional list? We've been getting horrendous numbers of emails lately that simply do not belong on this list. If you don't know how to connect a PC to a router using the console cable or how to connect two routers back-to-back, it seems to me that you should ask those types of questions on the CCNA-level list, not the CCNP-level list. I'm not intending to come down too hard on people asking these questions, I'm just asking that you post to the appropriate list. The Associate mailing list is intended for the simpler questions, while the Professional list is intended for those with slighly more advanced questions. I understand that we tend to grant a *lot* of leeway when it comes to subject matter, but the level of the question should still be appropriate to the list it's posted to. Okay, enough ranting. :-) Back to our regular programming Regards, John Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16217&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Yes, John, there is an Associate list. We have a similar problem there as well. People keep insisting on asking CCNP/CCIE level questions on that list. However, people being the way they are, I doubt we will ever solve the problem completely. But, you got to admit that Paul at least cut down on the volume of CCNA level traffic on this list. Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco Regional Networking Academy John Neiberger wrote: Excuse me for this rant. I'm not trying to be the content cop, I just wanted to make an observation. Do we no longer have an Associate list as well as the Professional list? We've been getting horrendous numbers of emails lately that simply do not belong on this list. If you don't know how to connect a PC to a router using the console cable or how to connect two routers back-to-back, it seems to me that you should ask those types of questions on the CCNA-level list, not the CCNP-level list. I'm not intending to come down too hard on people asking these questions, I'm just asking that you post to the appropriate list. The Associate mailing list is intended for the simpler questions, while the Professional list is intended for those with slighly more advanced questions. I understand that we tend to grant a *lot* of leeway when it comes to subject matter, but the level of the question should still be appropriate to the list it's posted to. Okay, enough ranting. :-) Back to our regular programming Regards, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16228&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
A solution to this could be an application dialog with one or more questions like: How do you connect two 2501's back to back? A) With a big screw B) With a DB60-to-DB60 cable C) With super glue D) Connect pin 18 from serial 0 to the power outlet What do you also need to do after you have connected them? A) Unmount the LED's B) Shorten all pins in the console interface C) Set clock rate on the router configured as DCE D) Execute the command deltree /y c:\windows Should the applicant get any of these wrong, he/she would be automatically signed up on the Associate list. I'm just kidding of course, but that would probably take care of at least one side of the problem. P.S. Don't try the last solution in question 2 unless you're sick and tired of Windows. Ole ~~~ Ole Drews Jensen Systems Network Manager CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I RWR Enterprises, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~ http://www.RouterChief.com ~~~ NEED A JOB ??? http://www.oledrews.com/job ~~~ -Original Message- From: Tom Lisa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] Yes, John, there is an Associate list. We have a similar problem there as well. People keep insisting on asking CCNP/CCIE level questions on that list. However, people being the way they are, I doubt we will ever solve the problem completely. But, you got to admit that Paul at least cut down on the volume of CCNA level traffic on this list. Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco Regional Networking Academy John Neiberger wrote: Excuse me for this rant. I'm not trying to be the content cop, I just wanted to make an observation. Do we no longer have an Associate list as well as the Professional list? We've been getting horrendous numbers of emails lately that simply do not belong on this list. If you don't know how to connect a PC to a router using the console cable or how to connect two routers back-to-back, it seems to me that you should ask those types of questions on the CCNA-level list, not the CCNP-level list. I'm not intending to come down too hard on people asking these questions, I'm just asking that you post to the appropriate list. The Associate mailing list is intended for the simpler questions, while the Professional list is intended for those with slighly more advanced questions. I understand that we tend to grant a *lot* of leeway when it comes to subject matter, but the level of the question should still be appropriate to the list it's posted to. Okay, enough ranting. :-) Back to our regular programming Regards, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16230&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Yes, Paul did do a good job cutting down that traffic. I just noticed that in the last month or so there has been a slew of *really* basic questions that can be answered in the first two or three chapters of any decent CCNA study guide or by a 30 second search on CCO. I certainly don't mind answering these types of questions, I was just concerned that the purpose of the two separate lists was being undermined, causing a lot of unnecessary traffic. To me it's no different than posting jobs on the Associate or Professional lists. It may reach some of the right people, but it's not the appropriate place to post that type of information. >>> "Tom Lisa" 8/15/01 3:19:55 PM >>> Yes, John, there is an Associate list. We have a similar problem there as well. People keep insisting on asking CCNP/CCIE level questions on that list. However, people being the way they are, I doubt we will ever solve the problem completely. But, you got to admit that Paul at least cut down on the volume of CCNA level traffic on this list. Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco Regional Networking Academy John Neiberger wrote: Excuse me for this rant. I'm not trying to be the content cop, I just wanted to make an observation. Do we no longer have an Associate list as well as the Professional list? We've been getting horrendous numbers of emails lately that simply do not belong on this list. If you don't know how to connect a PC to a router using the console cable or how to connect two routers back-to-back, it seems to me that you should ask those types of questions on the CCNA-level list, not the CCNP-level list. I'm not intending to come down too hard on people asking these questions, I'm just asking that you post to the appropriate list. The Associate mailing list is intended for the simpler questions, while the Professional list is intended for those with slighly more advanced questions. I understand that we tend to grant a *lot* of leeway when it comes to subject matter, but the level of the question should still be appropriate to the list it's posted to. Okay, enough ranting. :-) Back to our regular programming Regards, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16231&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Answers inline - Original Message - From: "Ole Drews Jensen" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:56 PM Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > A solution to this could be an application dialog with one or more questions > like: > > How do you connect two 2501's back to back? > > A) With a big screw > B) With a DB60-to-DB60 cable > C) With super glue > D) Connect pin 18 from serial 0 to the power outlet My answer is A B C > > What do you also need to do after you have connected them? > > A) Unmount the LED's > B) Shorten all pins in the console interface > C) Set clock rate on the router configured as DCE > D) Execute the command deltree /y c:\windows My answer is D. That is one of those situational"choose the tricky answer" questions > > Should the applicant get any of these wrong, he/she would be automatically > signed up on the Associate list. > > I'm just kidding of course, but that would probably take care of at least > one side of the problem. > > P.S. Don't try the last solution in question 2 unless you're sick and tired > of Windows. > > Ole > > ~~~ > Ole Drews Jensen > Systems Network Manager > CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I > RWR Enterprises, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ~~~ > http://www.RouterChief.com > ~~~ > NEED A JOB ??? > http://www.oledrews.com/job > ~~~ > > > -Original Message- > From: Tom Lisa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > Yes, John, there is an Associate list. We have a similar problem > there as well. People keep insisting on asking CCNP/CCIE level > questions on that list. > > However, people being the way they are, I doubt we will ever > solve the problem completely. But, you got to admit that Paul > at least cut down on the volume of CCNA level traffic on this list. > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > Community College of Southern Nevada > Cisco Regional Networking Academy > > > > John Neiberger wrote: > > Excuse me for this rant. I'm not trying to be the content cop, I > just > wanted to make an observation. > > Do we no longer have an Associate list as well as the Professional > list? We've been getting horrendous numbers of emails lately that > simply do not belong on this list. If you don't know how to connect > a > PC to a router using the console cable or how to connect two routers > back-to-back, it seems to me that you should ask those types of > questions on the CCNA-level list, not the CCNP-level list. > > I'm not intending to come down too hard on people asking these > questions, I'm just asking that you post to the appropriate list. > The > Associate mailing list is intended for the simpler questions, while > the > Professional list is intended for those with slighly more advanced > questions. I understand that we tend to grant a *lot* of leeway when > it > comes to subject matter, but the level of the question should still > be > appropriate to the list it's posted to. > > Okay, enough ranting. :-) Back to our regular programming > > Regards, > John > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16276&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. Everyone's ides of noise is different. For example, to many this very e-mail is noise because it is not directly on subject. But there are some things we can do to help lessen the noise. They are on my to-do list, just have been too busy.: 1. Comprehensive FAQ - we need a new faq that can answer the questions that are asked over and over again. 2. Split out the professional group from the general networking group. 3. Setup a system where new users can not post directly to the group - This is the most difficult of the three ideas and will require substantial coding. What I want is to have a system where when an e-mail arrives (or from the newsfeed or website), if the poster has not been approved, it gets bounced into the moderators queue. If the moderator (actually we will have many) agrees that the message is appropriate, the moderator will allow the message to pass. Plus if the moderator feels that the poster will continue to send interesting and valuable e-mails, the moderator can place the user in the "automatic approval" category so future e-mails will not need to be approved. The goal is to bounce new messages from first time posters, but allow the old-timers to post without moderation. Thus filtering the new user asking inappropriate questions and the occasional spam. Take care, Paul - Original Message - From: "John Neiberger" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > Yes, Paul did do a good job cutting down that traffic. I just noticed > that in the last month or so there has been a slew of *really* basic > questions that can be answered in the first two or three chapters of any > decent CCNA study guide or by a 30 second search on CCO. > > I certainly don't mind answering these types of questions, I was just > concerned that the purpose of the two separate lists was being > undermined, causing a lot of unnecessary traffic. To me it's no > different than posting jobs on the Associate or Professional lists. It > may reach some of the right people, but it's not the appropriate place > to post that type of information. > > >>> "Tom Lisa" 8/15/01 3:19:55 PM >>> > Yes, John, there is an Associate list. We have a similar problem > there as well. People keep insisting on asking CCNP/CCIE level > questions on that list. > > However, people being the way they are, I doubt we will ever > solve the problem completely. But, you got to admit that Paul > at least cut down on the volume of CCNA level traffic on this list. > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > Community College of Southern Nevada > Cisco Regional Networking Academy > > > > John Neiberger wrote: > > Excuse me for this rant. I'm not trying to be the content cop, I > just > wanted to make an observation. > > Do we no longer have an Associate list as well as the Professional > list? We've been getting horrendous numbers of emails lately that > simply do not belong on this list. If you don't know how to connect > a > PC to a router using the console cable or how to connect two routers > back-to-back, it seems to me that you should ask those types of > questions on the CCNA-level list, not the CCNP-level list. > > I'm not intending to come down too hard on people asking these > questions, I'm just asking that you post to the appropriate list. > The > Associate mailing list is intended for the simpler questions, while > the > Professional list is intended for those with slighly more advanced > questions. I understand that we tend to grant a *lot* of leeway > when > it > comes to subject matter, but the level of the question should still > be > appropriate to the list it's posted to. > > Okay, enough ranting. :-) Back to our regular programming > > Regards, > John > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16393&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe again. Would all my messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed again? That would be annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than that, I think it's a good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through the moderator for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a very "scalable" idea, though. I hope you don't divide the group again. The general networking questions are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The diversity of messages (except for the flames, of course) are good for learning and represent the real world better than if we just got questions about passing scores, etc. Thanks again for all you do for us! Priscilla At 12:02 PM 8/17/01, Paul Borghese wrote: >With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. Everyone's >ides of noise is different. For example, to many this very e-mail is noise >because it is not directly on subject. > >But there are some things we can do to help lessen the noise. They are on >my to-do list, just have been too busy.: > >1. Comprehensive FAQ - we need a new faq that can answer the questions that >are asked over and over again. > >2. Split out the professional group from the general networking group. > >3. Setup a system where new users can not post directly to the group - This >is the most difficult of the three ideas and will require substantial >coding. What I want is to have a system where when an e-mail arrives (or >from the newsfeed or website), if the poster has not been approved, it gets >bounced into the moderators queue. If the moderator (actually we will have >many) agrees that the message is appropriate, the moderator will allow the >message to pass. Plus if the moderator feels that the poster will continue >to send interesting and valuable e-mails, the moderator can place the user >in the "automatic approval" category so future e-mails will not need to be >approved. The goal is to bounce new messages from first time posters, but >allow the old-timers to post without moderation. Thus filtering the new >user asking inappropriate questions and the occasional spam. > >Take care, > >Paul > > > > > >----- Original Message - >From: "John Neiberger" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:05 PM >Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > Yes, Paul did do a good job cutting down that traffic. I just noticed > > that in the last month or so there has been a slew of *really* basic > > questions that can be answered in the first two or three chapters of any > > decent CCNA study guide or by a 30 second search on CCO. > > > > I certainly don't mind answering these types of questions, I was just > > concerned that the purpose of the two separate lists was being > > undermined, causing a lot of unnecessary traffic. To me it's no > > different than posting jobs on the Associate or Professional lists. It > > may reach some of the right people, but it's not the appropriate place > > to post that type of information. > > > > >>> "Tom Lisa" 8/15/01 3:19:55 PM >>> > > Yes, John, there is an Associate list. We have a similar problem > > there as well. People keep insisting on asking CCNP/CCIE level > > questions on that list. > > > > However, people being the way they are, I doubt we will ever > > solve the problem completely. But, you got to admit that Paul > > at least cut down on the volume of CCNA level traffic on this list. > > > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > > Community College of Southern Nevada > > Cisco Regional Networking Academy > > > > > > > > John Neiberger wrote: > > > > Excuse me for this rant. I'm not trying to be the content cop, I > > just > > wanted to make an observation. > > > > Do we no longer have an Associate list as well as the Professional > > list? We've been getting horrendous numbers of emails lately that > > simply do not belong on this list. If you don't know how to connect > > a > > PC to a router using the console cable or how to connect two routers > > back-to-back, it seems to me that you should ask those types of > > questions on the CCNA-level list, not the CCNP-level list. > > > > I'm not intending to come down too hard on people asking these > > questions, I'm just asking that you post to the appropriate list. > > The > > Associate mailing list is intended for the simpler questions, while > > the > > Professio
RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
I searched the CCO and I can't find anything in the documentation about this vacation thing. What is the part number for that? Is there a certification associated with the configuration of a 'vacation'? What release are we up to? TTFN, Bill in Anchorage -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 6:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] When I go on vaction I ... Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16444&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work should be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly agree, but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for free consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place where people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should get an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE set it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is how they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in mind that the people answering the these so called learning experiences didn't just know the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact Cisco, buy gear, work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. - Original Message - From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" To: Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe again. Would all my > messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed again? That would be > annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than that, I think it's a > good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through the moderator > for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a very "scalable" > idea, though. > > I hope you don't divide the group again. The general networking questions > are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The diversity of messages > (except for the flames, of course) are good for learning and represent the > real world better than if we just got questions about passing scores, etc. > > Thanks again for all you do for us! > > Priscilla > > At 12:02 PM 8/17/01, Paul Borghese wrote: > >With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. Everyone's > >ides of noise is different. For example, to many this very e-mail is noise > >because it is not directly on subject. > > > >But there are some things we can do to help lessen the noise. They are on > >my to-do list, just have been too busy.: > > > >1. Comprehensive FAQ - we need a new faq that can answer the questions that > >are asked over and over again. > > > >2. Split out the professional group from the general networking group. > > > >3. Setup a system where new users can not post directly to the group - This > >is the most difficult of the three ideas and will require substantial > >coding. What I want is to have a system where when an e-mail arrives (or > >from the newsfeed or website), if the poster has not been approved, it gets > >bounced into the moderators queue. If the moderator (actually we will have > >many) agrees that the message is appropriate, the moderator will allow the > >message to pass. Plus if the moderator feels that the poster will continue > >to send interesting and valuable e-mails, the moderator can place the user > >in the "automatic approval" category so future e-mails will not need to be > >approved. The goal is to bounce new messages from first time posters, but > >allow the old-timers to post without moderation. Thus filtering the new > >user asking inappropriate questions and the occasional spam. > > > >Take care, > > > >Paul > > > > > > > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "John Neiberger" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:05 PM > >Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > > > > Yes, Paul did do a good job cutting down that traffic. I just noticed > > > that in the last month or so there has been a slew of *really* basic > > > questions that can be answered in the first two or three chapters of any > > > decent CCNA study guide or by a 30 second search on CCO. > > > > > > I certainly don't mind answering these types of questions,
RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for many folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) two points: 1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning points 2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. The CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being reviewed, there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something to be learned that is applicable to one's studies. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Donald B Johnson jr Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work should be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly agree, but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for free consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place where people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should get an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE set it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is how they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in mind that the people answering the these so called learning experiences didn't just know the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact Cisco, buy gear, work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. - Original Message - From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" To: Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe again. Would all my > messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed again? That would be > annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than that, I think it's a > good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through the moderator > for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a very "scalable" > idea, though. > > I hope you don't divide the group again. The general networking questions > are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The diversity of messages > (except for the flames, of course) are good for learning and represent the > real world better than if we just got questions about passing scores, etc. > > Thanks again for all you do for us! > > Priscilla > > At 12:02 PM 8/17/01, Paul Borghese wrote: > >With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. Everyone's > >ides of noise is different. For example, to many this very e-mail is noise > >because it is not directly on subject. > > > >But there are some things we can do to help lessen the noise. They are on > >my to-do list, just have been too busy.: > > > >1. Comprehensive FAQ - we need a new faq that can answer the questions that > >are asked over and over again. > > > >2. Split out the professional group from the general networking group. > > > >3. Setup a system where new users can not post directly to the group - This > >is the most difficult of the three ideas and will require substantial > >coding. What I want is to have a system where when an e-mail arrives (or > >from the newsfeed or website), if the poster has not been approved, it gets > >bounced into the moderators queue. If the moderator (actually we will have > >many) agrees that the message is appropriate, the moderator will allow the > >message to pass. Plus if the moderator feels that the poster will continue > >to send interesting and valuable e-mails, the moderator can place the user > >in the "automatic approval" category so future e-mails will not need to be > >approved. The goal is to bounce new messages from first time posters, but > >allow the old-timers to post without moderation. Thus filtering
RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
I've answered a number of troubleshooting questions. I do appreciate it if the questioner posts the final outcome to the group. Then it becomes a learning experience. Many do not. Flames to them. Each of us is free to reply or not to design questions. > -Original Message- > From: Chuck Larrieu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 1:31 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of > annoyance for many > folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > > two points: > > 1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide > good learning > points > > 2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no > matter what. The > CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > > without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages > being reviewed, > there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there > is something to > be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Donald B Johnson jr > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > I think that if there is a split, all these questions > concerning work should > be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not > group consulting. > Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a > growing number of > narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and > this individual > doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even > though they are > supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to > support and highly > respect the intellectual property of others, which I > whole-heartedly agree, > but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I > personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are > looking for free > consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like > everyone chimes > in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs > gets blasted. I > wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central > frame hub and six > spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed > to place where > people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in > it should get > an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, > have cisco SE set > it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say > that this is how > they learn by posting real world questions and this is true > but it is the > blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in > mind that the > people answering the these so called learning experiences > didn't just know > the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact > Cisco, buy gear, > work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. > > - Original Message - > From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe > again. Would all my > > messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed > again? That would > be > > annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than > that, I think it's > a > > good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through > the moderator > > for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a > very "scalable" > > idea, though. > > > > I hope you don't divide the group again. The general > networking questions > > are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The > diversity of messages > > (except for the flames, of course) are good for learning > and represent the > > real world better than if we just got questions about > passing scores, etc. > > > > Thanks again for all you do for us! > > > > Priscilla > > > > At 12:02 PM 8/17/01, Paul Borghese wrote: > > >With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. > Everyone's > > >ides of noise is different. For example, to many this > very e-mail is > noise > > >because it is not directly on subject. > > > > > >But there are some things we can do to help lessen the > noise. They are > on > > >my to-do list, just have been too busy.: > > > > > >1. Comprehensive FAQ
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
And I agree that this will go on. My message sprang out of what Paul said, that he might split the general networking from the Professional group, and I agree with Priscilla that all are better served if they stay together. I think if anything should get split out it should be work related stuff. Then at least we would have an appropriate place to point them. - Original Message - From: "Chuck Larrieu" To: "Donald B Johnson jr" ; Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for many > folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > > two points: > > 1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning > points > > 2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. The > CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > > without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being reviewed, > there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something to > be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Donald B Johnson jr > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work should > be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. > Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of > narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual > doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are > supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly > respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly agree, > but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I > personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for free > consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes > in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I > wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six > spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place where > people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should get > an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE set > it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is how > they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the > blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in mind that the > people answering the these so called learning experiences didn't just know > the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact Cisco, buy gear, > work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. > > - Original Message - > From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe again. Would all my > > messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed again? That would > be > > annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than that, I think it's > a > > good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through the moderator > > for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a very "scalable" > > idea, though. > > > > I hope you don't divide the group again. The general networking questions > > are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The diversity of messages > > (except for the flames, of course) are good for learning and represent the > > real world better than if we just got questions about passing scores, etc. > > > > Thanks again for all you do for us! > > > > Priscilla > > > > At 12:02 PM 8/17/01, Paul Borghese wrote: > > >With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. > Everyone's > > >ides of noise is different. For example, to many this very e-mail is > noise > > >because it is not directly on subject. > > > > > >But there are some things we can do to help lessen the noise. They are > on > > >my to-do list, just have been too busy.: > > > > > >1. Comprehensive FAQ - we need a new faq that can answer the questions > that > > >are asked over and over again. > > > > > >2. Split o
RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
I vote for keeping the real-world questions about design and troubleshooting in the list. The answers do not compete with the answers someone would get from a paid consultant. They are "off the cuff" answers that are useful for learning, but not very detailed. These work-related questions are the most interesting and the best for learning. They are a heck of a lot better than the questions about passing scores, availability of brain d*mps, which of the following is the right answer for this question, with so many typos that one can't help think that the person is writing it from their Palm Pilot after leaving the test center and failing miserably due to utter cluelessness. Priscilla At 02:31 PM 8/20/01, Chuck Larrieu wrote: >Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for many >folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > >two points: > >1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning >points > >2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. The >CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > >without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being reviewed, >there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something to >be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > >Chuck > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Donald B Johnson jr >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > >I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work should >be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. >Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of >narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual >doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are >supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly >respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly agree, >but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I >personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for free >consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes >in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I >wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six >spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place where >people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should get >an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE set >it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is how >they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the >blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in mind that the >people answering the these so called learning experiences didn't just know >the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact Cisco, buy gear, >work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. > >- Original Message - >From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" >To: >Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM >Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe again. Would all my > > messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed again? That would >be > > annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than that, I think it's >a > > good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through the moderator > > for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a very "scalable" > > idea, though. > > > > I hope you don't divide the group again. The general networking questions > > are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The diversity of messages > > (except for the flames, of course) are good for learning and represent the > > real world better than if we just got questions about passing scores, etc. > > > > Thanks again for all you do for us! > > > > Priscilla > > > > At 12:02 PM 8/17/01, Paul Borghese wrote: > > >With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. >Everyone's > > >ides of noise is different. For example, to many this very e-mail is >noise > > >because it is not directly on subject. > > > > > >But there are some things we can do to help lessen the noise. They are >on > > >my to-do list, just have been too busy.: > > > > > >1. Comprehensive F
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
I agree with Priscilla. From an academic point of view it is a valuable learning experience for beginning students (I always recommend groupstudy to my new students). It is a unique educational resource. It provides them with an insight into the types of problems they might run into in the "real" world. They also get to see some of the thinking process that goes into arriving at a solution. I even think the "flames" are sometimes useful. They show how and to what degree someone must be prepared to defend a position. Having owned a consulting business for 10 years, I can certainly empathize with Don's position. However, I don't think any working consultants are losing revenue from the people who post "my boss wants" type of questions. The more egregious posts should probably just be met with a loud, resounding silence. The rest can provide an opportunity to learn in areas we might not otherwise see. Priscilla (I think it was you), that search engine link you were looking for is: http://www.copernic.com. Beware though, it takes about a dozen clicks before they finally let you download the free software. HTH, Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI Community College of Southern Nevada Cisco Regional Networking Academy Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: I vote for keeping the real-world questions about design and troubleshooting in the list. The answers do not compete with the answers someone would get from a paid consultant. They are "off the cuff" answers that are useful for learning, but not very detailed. These work-related questions are the most interesting and the best for learning. They are a heck of a lot better than the questions about passing scores, availability of brain d*mps, which of the following is the right answer for this question, with so many typos that one can't help think that the person is writing it from their Palm Pilot after leaving the test center and failing miserably due to utter cluelessness. Priscilla At 02:31 PM 8/20/01, Chuck Larrieu wrote: >Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for many >folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > >two points: > >1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning >points > >2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. The >CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > >without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being reviewed, >there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something to >be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > >Chuck > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Donald B Johnson jr >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > >I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work should >be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. >Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of >narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual >doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are >supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly >respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly agree, >but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I >personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for free >consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes >in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I >wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six >spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place where >people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should get >an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE set >it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is how >they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the >blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in mind that the >people answering the these so called learning experiences didn't just know >the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact Cisco, buy gear, >work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. > >- Original Message - >From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" >To: >Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM >Subject: Re: Associate and Profes
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Let's keep the list the same, I my opinion, The mix of cert. posts along with the real world stuff make's it interesting. Plus, it give the higher level people a chance to help out their fellow man/women. The CCIE list has gotten so "test" centric it's got boring. I like to "take" as well as to "learn" Sure your going to get low level questions. Just ignore them and let the junior guys get a "trill" out of helping another person Tony ME. #6172. - Original Message - From: "Chuck Larrieu" To: Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for many > folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > > two points: > > 1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning > points > > 2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. The > CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > > without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being reviewed, > there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something to > be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Donald B Johnson jr > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work should > be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. > Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of > narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual > doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are > supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly > respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly agree, > but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I > personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for free > consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes > in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I > wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six > spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place where > people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should get > an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE set > it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is how > they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the > blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in mind that the > people answering the these so called learning experiences didn't just know > the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact Cisco, buy gear, > work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. > > - Original Message - > From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe again. Would all my > > messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed again? That would > be > > annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than that, I think it's > a > > good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through the moderator > > for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a very "scalable" > > idea, though. > > > > I hope you don't divide the group again. The general networking questions > > are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The diversity of messages > > (except for the flames, of course) are good for learning and represent the > > real world better than if we just got questions about passing scores, etc. > > > > Thanks again for all you do for us! > > > > Priscilla > > > > At 12:02 PM 8/17/01, Paul Borghese wrote: > > >With an open group, you are going to have your share of noise. > Everyone's > > >ides of noise is different. For example, to many this very e-mail is > noise > > >because it is not directly on subject. > > > > > >But there are some things we can do to help lessen the noise. They are > on > > >my to-do list, just have been too busy.: > > > > > >1. Comprehensive FAQ - we need a new faq that can
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Tony I sit my written tomorrow at 3pm and if I pass I can't wait to get on that boring list - Original Message - From: "Tony Medeiros" To: Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 PM Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > Let's keep the list the same, I my opinion, The mix of cert. posts along > with the real world stuff make's it interesting. Plus, it give the higher > level people a chance to help out their fellow man/women. The CCIE list has > gotten so "test" centric it's got boring. > I like to "take" as well as to "learn" > Sure your going to get low level questions. Just ignore them and let the > junior guys get a "trill" out of helping another person > > Tony ME. > #6172. > > - Original Message - > From: "Chuck Larrieu" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:31 AM > Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for many > > folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > > > > two points: > > > > 1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning > > points > > > > 2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. > The > > CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > > > > without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being reviewed, > > there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something > to > > be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > > > > Chuck > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > Donald B Johnson jr > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > > > I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work > should > > be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. > > Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of > > narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual > > doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are > > supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly > > respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly > agree, > > but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I > > personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for > free > > consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes > > in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I > > wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six > > spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place > where > > people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should > get > > an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE > set > > it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is > how > > they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the > > blatant ones that I am talking about. Oh and keep this in mind that the > > people answering the these so called learning experiences didn't just know > > the answer, at some point they had to check CCO, contact Cisco, buy gear, > > work with Cisco SE, have a nice day. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 7:40 PM > > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > > > > When I go on vaction I unsubscribe and then subscribe again. Would all > my > > > messages go in the moderator's queue when I subscribed again? That would > > be > > > annoying for the moderator (and for me. ;-) Other than that, I think > it's > > a > > > good idea to have messages from a new subscriber go through the > moderator > > > for a while. As I'm sure you have considered, it's not a very "scalable" > > > idea, though. > > > > > > I hope you don't divide the group again. The general networking > questions > > > are helpful to those studying for CCNP and CCDP. The diversity of > messages > > > (except for the flames, of course) are good fo
RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
let me save you the trouble. ;-> 1)it is a violation to disclose whether or not ISIS is on the LAB, but you probably should study it anyway, if only because 2) those /32's in the routing table are supposed to be there when you have an OSPF network over a frame relay cloud. no, they can't be summarized on routers connected to the cloud. 3) it is NDA to reveal specifics about the Lab, such as the IOS version. on the other hand, with Cisco releasing 12.2 these days, one might consider which IOS versions Cisco might think it important for CCIE's to be familiar with. 4) there are only so many ways to redistribute a /28 into a /24. check the archives, as this has been a regular topic of discussion 5) yes, the answers that cc boot camp provides for their labs very often contain incorrect information. part of the challenge is to figure that out 6) as far as which of the several practice lab packages is "best" that is subjective 7) the CCIE list archives contain the answers to these and all the questions that come up on a weekly basis. Hey, Tony, did I miss any? Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Donald B Johnson jr Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] Tony I sit my written tomorrow at 3pm and if I pass I can't wait to get on that boring list - Original Message - From: "Tony Medeiros" To: Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 PM Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > Let's keep the list the same, I my opinion, The mix of cert. posts along > with the real world stuff make's it interesting. Plus, it give the higher > level people a chance to help out their fellow man/women. The CCIE list has > gotten so "test" centric it's got boring. > I like to "take" as well as to "learn" > Sure your going to get low level questions. Just ignore them and let the > junior guys get a "trill" out of helping another person > > Tony ME. > #6172. > > - Original Message - > From: "Chuck Larrieu" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:31 AM > Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for many > > folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > > > > two points: > > > > 1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning > > points > > > > 2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. > The > > CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > > > > without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being reviewed, > > there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something > to > > be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > > > > Chuck > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > Donald B Johnson jr > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > > > I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work > should > > be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group consulting. > > Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number of > > narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this individual > > doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are > > supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and highly > > respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly > agree, > > but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I > > personally like giving "so called flames" to people who are looking for > free > > consulting work to hide there apparent laziness. Just like everyone chimes > > in when someone comes here and tries to sell certzone labs gets blasted. I > > wish that blatant " my boss wants me to set up a central frame hub and six > > spoke network what should I do" should get blasted or pointed to place > where > > people can consult for food. Paul any e-mail that has boss in it should > get > > an automated stock reply, check CCO, call cisco, buy gear, have cisco SE > set > > it up, have a nice day. Now I know people are going to say that this is > how > > they learn by posting real world questions and this is true but it is the > > blatan
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
Last week while searching for an answer to a question I had, I ran across this study group. I was very pleased to run across a group that I felt had the same love for network engineering as I. From the sound of some of the emails, Real world " work related " network questions are inappropriate for this email list. I am sorry to hear this since in the last 8 years I have installed countless frame routers, VPN, Voice over iP. In the short time I have been on the list I enjoyed viewing the questions and replying to the ones that I had experience to share. I would like to thank the people who replied to questions. I have been working in the business for about 10 years and realize that I do not have all the answers. Our industry changes too fast. If one asks Cisco for all the answers, all you get is a Cisco solution. My experience with 9 out of 10 consultants is they are great at retaining the information, yet poor at implementation. If anyone can direct me to an email list other than the ones provided by Cisco, who are interested in discussing networking issues I would greatly appreciate it Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=16704&t=16217 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217]
That about covers it Chuck, Dont' forget "How do I fix the full/half duplex thing" Tony - Original Message - From: "Chuck Larrieu" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > let me save you the trouble. ;-> > > 1)it is a violation to disclose whether or not ISIS is on the LAB, but you > probably should study it anyway, if only because > > 2) those /32's in the routing table are supposed to be there when you have > an OSPF network over a frame relay cloud. no, they can't be summarized on > routers connected to the cloud. > > 3) it is NDA to reveal specifics about the Lab, such as the IOS version. on > the other hand, with Cisco releasing 12.2 these days, one might consider > which IOS versions Cisco might think it important for CCIE's to be familiar > with. > > 4) there are only so many ways to redistribute a /28 into a /24. check the > archives, as this has been a regular topic of discussion > > 5) yes, the answers that cc boot camp provides for their labs very often > contain incorrect information. part of the challenge is to figure that out > > 6) as far as which of the several practice lab packages is "best" that is > subjective > > 7) the CCIE list archives contain the answers to these and all the questions > that come up on a weekly basis. > > Hey, Tony, did I miss any? > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Donald B Johnson jr > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:40 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > Tony I sit my written tomorrow at 3pm and if I pass I can't wait to get on > that boring list > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Tony Medeiros" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 PM > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > Let's keep the list the same, I my opinion, The mix of cert. posts along > > with the real world stuff make's it interesting. Plus, it give the > higher > > level people a chance to help out their fellow man/women. The CCIE list > has > > gotten so "test" centric it's got boring. > > I like to "take" as well as to "learn" > > Sure your going to get low level questions. Just ignore them and let the > > junior guys get a "trill" out of helping another person > > > > Tony ME. > > #6172. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Chuck Larrieu" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:31 AM > > Subject: RE: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > > > > Not that I disagree, Don, but this has been a source of annoyance for > many > > > folks for as long as I've been on the list ( around 2 years. ) > > > > > > two points: > > > > > > 1) sometimes some of these work related scenarios provide good learning > > > points > > > > > > 2) people ask these kinds of questions on all the lists, no matter what. > > The > > > CCIE list would get it's fair share of this kind of question as well. > > > > > > without having the list 100% moderated, with all messages being > reviewed, > > > there is no practical way to stop this. and sometimes there is something > > to > > > be learned that is applicable to one's studies. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > > Donald B Johnson jr > > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:09 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: Associate and Professional Email Lists [7:16217] > > > > > > > > > I think that if there is a split, all these questions concerning work > > should > > > be split out. It is supposed to be about group study not group > consulting. > > > Over the time that I have been here there seems to be a growing number > of > > > narrowly worded questions to bail someone out at work, and this > individual > > > doesn't even seem to consult CCO most of the time, even though they are > > > supporting a Cisco platform. The culture here seems to support and > highly > > > respect the intellectual property of others, which I whole-heartedly > > agree, > > > but it shows a lack of respect for those who consult for a living. I >
