Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
Ethernet can indeed run at a higher MTU as our discussion showed, in fact we are trying to get hold of some 2FE cards to do just that, we already run MTU4470 on our gig to gig links but remember these do not go through any switches but are router to router only so fixed MTU ports are avoided. Now a giant is only detected if the packet was over 4470 not 1500 (Have tested that already). However back to your point, you can't raise a normal ethernet or single port fast ethernet card to more than 1500 bytes and most switches don't like a higher MTU either. Still it is possible, does work and changes the sizes of giants automatically as the MTU is modified. Darren Tony van Ree wrote: Hi all, I was under the impression that an ethernet frame had a maximum size of 1500 bytes. This did not include the addresses or the FCS. To increase the MTU beyond that size would indeed create a giant on ethernet. As it is you will find some devices give an error message when including an ISL header. (A gig port on a 2984 is a good example) In the case of the 2984 the data still goes through ok but when you get a packet over 1484 bytes an whack it through the port the error rate rises. Anything small is ok. It does seem to me that the basic ethernet standards define the max MTU pretty well. I could however have mis understood all these years. Thanks, Teunis, Hobart, Tasmania Australia. On Saturday, December 02, 2000 at 12:25:13 AM, Kevin Wigle wrote: there is a "mtu" command. In a somewhat similar situation - I had built a circuit using lan emulation that terminated on a bvi on a 7505. The bvi had an ip address and placed into an OSPF area. I'm not aware of the defaults with a router that has both ATM and ethernet but I didn't take notice of the mtu that the bvi had - I assumed that it was just like an ethernet interface On the distant end of the lan emulation was an ordinary router with an ethernet interface and it was also configured into the OSPF area. However, OSPF didn't work. debugging showed that an adjacency wasn't being formed. Turning up yet more debugging - finally an error about "mtu size not equal" was noticed. sure enough, the bvi had the ATM mtu of 4470.. using the mtu command on the bvi interface "mtu 1500", the adjacency formed immediately and all was well. so, my guess would be that a fast ethernet probably has the same "mtu" command, try it out. Kevin Wigle - Original Message - From: "Darren Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 01 December, 2000 22:02 Subject: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.tasmail.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: Some sort of maximum is necessary, of course, in order to assure fairness. The myths about the maximum having something to do with making CSMA/CD work correctly are inaccurate, (not that anyone said that in this thread). The myths are a mistake by analogy. The minimum size frame is necessary for CSMA/CD to work correctly. Totally agree, you simply can't get around (nor should you want to get around) the minimum packet size because of the whole collision detection (magic 32 bit time/distance) issue. But as I've seen the MTU can indeed be set much higher, but relatively few cards/ports support it. Gigabit ports and 2FE cards are the only exception I've found so far but the performance boost this gives some router to router traffic such as BGP is quite significant. We have iBGP between GSR's in one area and the convergence and transfer times are phenomenal. Darren _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
Hi all, I was under the impression that an ethernet frame had a maximum size of 1500 bytes. This did not include the addresses or the FCS. To increase the MTU beyond that size would indeed create a giant on ethernet. As it is you will find some devices give an error message when including an ISL header. (A gig port on a 2984 is a good example) In the case of the 2984 the data still goes through ok but when you get a packet over 1484 bytes an whack it through the port the error rate rises. Anything small is ok. It does seem to me that the basic ethernet standards define the max MTU pretty well. I could however have mis understood all these years. Thanks, Teunis, Hobart, Tasmania Australia. On Saturday, December 02, 2000 at 12:25:13 AM, Kevin Wigle wrote: there is a "mtu" command. In a somewhat similar situation - I had built a circuit using lan emulation that terminated on a bvi on a 7505. The bvi had an ip address and placed into an OSPF area. I'm not aware of the defaults with a router that has both ATM and ethernet but I didn't take notice of the mtu that the bvi had - I assumed that it was just like an ethernet interface On the distant end of the lan emulation was an ordinary router with an ethernet interface and it was also configured into the OSPF area. However, OSPF didn't work. debugging showed that an adjacency wasn't being formed. Turning up yet more debugging - finally an error about "mtu size not equal" was noticed. sure enough, the bvi had the ATM mtu of 4470.. using the mtu command on the bvi interface "mtu 1500", the adjacency formed immediately and all was well. so, my guess would be that a fast ethernet probably has the same "mtu" command, try it out. Kevin Wigle - Original Message - From: "Darren Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 01 December, 2000 22:02 Subject: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.tasmail.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
The Ethernet standards (Blue Book and IEEE 802.3) say that the maximum Ethernet frame size is 1518 bytes, counting the dest and src addresses, type/length field, and FCS. But, theoretically, there's no reason it couldn't be bigger, and some interfaces accept bigger frames. They have to for ISL, as you mentioned. I asked Bob Metcalfe where 1518 bytes comes from. Seriously, I met him at a party many years ago and hit him with this question. His answer, "Hmm, well I really don't know!" Some sort of maximum is necessary, of course, in order to assure fairness. The myths about the maximum having something to do with making CSMA/CD work correctly are inaccurate, (not that anyone said that in this thread). The myths are a mistake by analogy. The minimum size frame is necessary for CSMA/CD to work correctly. Priscilla At 09:22 AM 12/4/00, Tony van Ree wrote: Hi all, I was under the impression that an ethernet frame had a maximum size of 1500 bytes. This did not include the addresses or the FCS. To increase the MTU beyond that size would indeed create a giant on ethernet. As it is you will find some devices give an error message when including an ISL header. (A gig port on a 2984 is a good example) In the case of the 2984 the data still goes through ok but when you get a packet over 1484 bytes an whack it through the port the error rate rises. Anything small is ok. It does seem to me that the basic ethernet standards define the max MTU pretty well. I could however have mis understood all these years. Thanks, Teunis, Hobart, Tasmania Australia. On Saturday, December 02, 2000 at 12:25:13 AM, Kevin Wigle wrote: there is a "mtu" command. In a somewhat similar situation - I had built a circuit using lan emulation that terminated on a bvi on a 7505. The bvi had an ip address and placed into an OSPF area. I'm not aware of the defaults with a router that has both ATM and ethernet but I didn't take notice of the mtu that the bvi had - I assumed that it was just like an ethernet interface On the distant end of the lan emulation was an ordinary router with an ethernet interface and it was also configured into the OSPF area. However, OSPF didn't work. debugging showed that an adjacency wasn't being formed. Turning up yet more debugging - finally an error about "mtu size not equal" was noticed. sure enough, the bvi had the ATM mtu of 4470.. using the mtu command on the bvi interface "mtu 1500", the adjacency formed immediately and all was well. so, my guess would be that a fast ethernet probably has the same "mtu" command, try it out. Kevin Wigle - Original Message - From: "Darren Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 01 December, 2000 22:02 Subject: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
I made an half asleep typo. Anything small was not quite what I meant. Teunis. On Sunday, December 03, 2000 at 05:31:49 PM, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: The Ethernet standards (Blue Book and IEEE 802.3) say that the maximum Ethernet frame size is 1518 bytes, counting the dest and src addresses, type/length field, and FCS. But, theoretically, there's no reason it couldn't be bigger, and some interfaces accept bigger frames. They have to for ISL, as you mentioned. I asked Bob Metcalfe where 1518 bytes comes from. Seriously, I met him at a party many years ago and hit him with this question. His answer, "Hmm, well I really don't know!" Some sort of maximum is necessary, of course, in order to assure fairness. The myths about the maximum having something to do with making CSMA/CD work correctly are inaccurate, (not that anyone said that in this thread). The myths are a mistake by analogy. The minimum size frame is necessary for CSMA/CD to work correctly. Priscilla At 09:22 AM 12/4/00, Tony van Ree wrote: Hi all, I was under the impression that an ethernet frame had a maximum size of 1500 bytes. This did not include the addresses or the FCS. To increase the MTU beyond that size would indeed create a giant on ethernet. As it is you will find some devices give an error message when including an ISL header. (A gig port on a 2984 is a good example) In the case of the 2984 the data still goes through ok but when you get a packet over 1484 bytes an whack it through the port the error rate rises. Anything small is ok. It does seem to me that the basic ethernet standards define the max MTU pretty well. I could however have mis understood all these years. Thanks, Teunis, Hobart, Tasmania Australia. On Saturday, December 02, 2000 at 12:25:13 AM, Kevin Wigle wrote: there is a "mtu" command. In a somewhat similar situation - I had built a circuit using lan emulation that terminated on a bvi on a 7505. The bvi had an ip address and placed into an OSPF area. I'm not aware of the defaults with a router that has both ATM and ethernet but I didn't take notice of the mtu that the bvi had - I assumed that it was just like an ethernet interface On the distant end of the lan emulation was an ordinary router with an ethernet interface and it was also configured into the OSPF area. However, OSPF didn't work. debugging showed that an adjacency wasn't being formed. Turning up yet more debugging - finally an error about "mtu size not equal" was noticed. sure enough, the bvi had the ATM mtu of 4470.. using the mtu command on the bvi interface "mtu 1500", the adjacency formed immediately and all was well. so, my guess would be that a fast ethernet probably has the same "mtu" command, try it out. Kevin Wigle - Original Message - From: "Darren Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 01 December, 2000 22:02 Subject: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.tasmail.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
I have noticed that on the 12008 I can set the MTU higher but not the 7206VXR? Since I'm talking about going straight from a 7206VXR to a 12008GSR I assume then all I should need to do is get a 2FE card for the 7200. The switch issue doesn't come into this one as mentioned but is a point well taken of course. I think I'll try and find the card documentation on CCO and thanks for the reference. Darren Hugo _ wrote: You need the 2FE port to change the MTU size, but also in the Catalyst you need to have the version wich support the feature "jumbo packet" wich permit to pass packet greater than 1500. Hugo From: Darren Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Darren Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 14:02:06 +1100 Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
Try it. Ethernet is based on physical and data layer characteristics with a strong dose of CSMA/CD. If all sides agree what the bit times will be above 64 then it might work. The mtu command could probably be placed on all interfaces involved. On another note, I remember having two identical servers-one fast ethernet, the other with a 100Mbs ATM card hooked directly to an ATM switch and the server with the ATM card always seemed "faster" than the one with the FE card. This was a production environment so I never really got a chance to do any real testing. I have always felt that the predictabilty of the ATM cell sizes would account for the seemingly faster throughput. We have moved away from ATM on the LAN to Gig except for some WAN connections so I might never know. Let us know if it worked. Winston. -Original Message- From: Darren Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 4:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fast Ethernet MTU Size
Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
Hi Chuck, I'm not a 100% sure myself but I believe the delineation is that layer 3 fragmentation is seperate from ATM SAR. SAR simply takes the layer 3 packet and chops it into 48 byte payloads and reassembles it at the other end of the ATM link, the actual content of the payload, the packet itself is irrelevant to that level. At any rate we have seen sinificant improvements in BGP using an MTU of 4470 on Gig and OC3 ATM so I want to try and increase the MTU on the link between another couple of routers. Darren Chuck Larrieu wrote: Not knowing the ethernet side of things, but I am curious - and MTU of 4470 on ATM? 53 byte cell size? I did a cursory search of the IEEE web site but didn't find much. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren Ward Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
Hhhhm. I thought my reply was private. Oh well,,, What I know about ATM will fill a thimble with room left over for a skein of yarn :- Same for gig E I know there are mathematical calculations for MTU in ethernet, based on network diameter, and the physics of signal propagation through the wire. So it may well be that if the only two stations on the wire are directly connected and just a few feet apart, running full dup, then you can make adjustments. I see on my router ( 2501 ) that there is an MTU command under the ethernet port, with values from 64 through 18000. I get an error when I try to adjust, with a report that I don't have a 2FE port adapter. Hmmm.. a quick look around CCO kinda indicates that the FE adapter for the higher end routers might support a larger MTU. And yes, while looking through the command reference, I did see MTU sizes for various media, including ATM at 4470 Learn something every day. Chuck -Original Message- From: Darren Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 8:29 PM To: Chuck Larrieu; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi Chuck, I'm not a 100% sure myself but I believe the delineation is that layer 3 fragmentation is seperate from ATM SAR. SAR simply takes the layer 3 packet and chops it into 48 byte payloads and reassembles it at the other end of the ATM link, the actual content of the payload, the packet itself is irrelevant to that level. At any rate we have seen sinificant improvements in BGP using an MTU of 4470 on Gig and OC3 ATM so I want to try and increase the MTU on the link between another couple of routers. Darren Chuck Larrieu wrote: Not knowing the ethernet side of things, but I am curious - and MTU of 4470 on ATM? 53 byte cell size? I did a cursory search of the IEEE web site but didn't find much. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren Ward Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fast Ethernet MTU Size
there is a "mtu" command. In a somewhat similar situation - I had built a circuit using lan emulation that terminated on a bvi on a 7505. The bvi had an ip address and placed into an OSPF area. I'm not aware of the defaults with a router that has both ATM and ethernet but I didn't take notice of the mtu that the bvi had - I assumed that it was just like an ethernet interface On the distant end of the lan emulation was an ordinary router with an ethernet interface and it was also configured into the OSPF area. However, OSPF didn't work. debugging showed that an adjacency wasn't being formed. Turning up yet more debugging - finally an error about "mtu size not equal" was noticed. sure enough, the bvi had the ATM mtu of 4470.. using the mtu command on the bvi interface "mtu 1500", the adjacency formed immediately and all was well. so, my guess would be that a fast ethernet probably has the same "mtu" command, try it out. Kevin Wigle - Original Message - From: "Darren Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 01 December, 2000 22:02 Subject: Fast Ethernet MTU Size Hi All, Is it at all possible to raise the MTU size on Fast Ethernet? I'll give you all a scenario ATM on one side with an MTU of 4470, fast ethernet connecting the two routers, Gigabit Ethernet the other side with an MTU of 4470. How can I raise the MTU of a Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Connection above 1500? I assume it's not possible when going through switched as they will show every packet as a giant but in a router to router cross-over connection I was hoping there was some way to keep the MTU static across the path rather than force the routers to fragment and re-assemble (of course the destination re-assembles). Darren Ward CCNP, CCDP, CCIE Wannabee _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
