RE: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
I personally think that it's made me a better person. In the end, I KNOW what hard work it was to climb the mountain of success. So please, Don't complain about the cost, because you've got it easier than you know... you just have to go look for it. No need to flame the cost conscious, all that will go to the kill file. == Now, Back to so real discussion - Cisco labs to practice :) Mark Odette II CCNA, 3/4 CCNP, MCSE, A+, and lots of hard work ahead of him. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Nick S. Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512] Also, the way these labs are designed they demand on 13 routers & switches (not to mention the topology) that it becomes imperative for 90% of the people to buy rack time from the lab sellers and that is really bad. I know of many people out there in China & India (other asian countries) who have tremendous potential, but they seriously lack the funds to pay for the labs or rack time. I have suggested Marc to follow the strategy of Book Publishers who sell "low priced asian editions" . He has nothing to lose, but he will gain a much wider market share, and ccbootcamp will truly become a "Global Company". Nick Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29912&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
That's quite true! I'm in China and I fully agree with you, Nick. But, a stupid question, could you please tell me what's "ccbootcamp"? Actually i don't exact know what it is... Thanks in advanced! Patrick MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Nick S. Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512] Also, the way these labs are designed they demand on 13 routers & switches (not to mention the topology) that it becomes imperative for 90% of the people to buy rack time from the lab sellers and that is really bad. I know of many people out there in China & India (other asian countries) who have tremendous potential, but they seriously lack the funds to pay for the labs or rack time. I have suggested Marc to follow the strategy of Book Publishers who sell "low priced asian editions" . He has nothing to lose, but he will gain a much wider market share, and ccbootcamp will truly become a "Global Company". Nick Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29755&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
Also, the way these labs are designed they demand on 13 routers & switches (not to mention the topology) that it becomes imperative for 90% of the people to buy rack time from the lab sellers and that is really bad. I know of many people out there in China & India (other asian countries) who have tremendous potential, but they seriously lack the funds to pay for the labs or rack time. I have suggested Marc to follow the strategy of Book Publishers who sell "low priced asian editions" . He has nothing to lose, but he will gain a much wider market share, and ccbootcamp will truly become a "Global Company". Nick Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29743&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
> The trouble is that Cisco has made this certification seem so "unachievable" > and so "frightening" and of course "so much wantable" that it creates a > market for "knowing the unknown" and "taming the untamed". So you are ok, in > looking at the tremendous opportunity amidst all this, and make a business > out of it. The people who have passed (about 7500 of them) don't think it's "unachievable" anymore. The trouble is not Cisco - it's the experience of people who go into the lab unprepared and discovering that it's not just configuring basics on a router. Also, echoing Dave Madsen, in the 'old days', there were no study materials (unlike other certification programs), which made the lab that much more mysterious, and the NDA is so strong that no one would dare step out to share information. > > I am also aware of the fact that nothing in this world is free, and anything > that is free is NOT APPRECIATED. But there is a limit to how much you can > charge, especially with the non-proprietory nature of the knowledge. 650$ > translates to roughly 1200$ over here in Australia, and would translate to > about 30K in some places in Asia. And that includes just scenarios. I appreciate the FatKid (free) labs. In fact, I've offered on one occassion to help Derek modernize and expand the lab scenarios. His lack of response indicates his interest in that endeavor. > > So what are you doing, creating another MICROSOFT ? > Interesting question. I'm interested in Marc's answer. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29741&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
That wasnt me Mark. This is Nick and that was Jason. and my email address is listed and I post regularly, and email add. works. I was complaining about the high prices and not the quality of your product, in fact I also suggested that nothing is free. Basically I would suggest that as is the case with Book publishers, have "low priced asian edition" you should do something similar for third world & less privileged countries. Oh yeah, and I was the one who branded you MICROSOFT :) Nick Marc Russell wrote: > > No problem, maybe your e-mail was just down, but this is what I > got when I > tried to send you an e-mail. See below. > > > > The CCIE process is very expenesive. > > If $650.00 is very expensive then setting up a practice rack is > probably out > of reach. Extensive hands on practice with a rack of routers is > the most > important aspect of CCIE preparation. > > Marc Russell > www.ccbootcamp.com > > > > Final-Recipient: rfc822;[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Action: failed > Status: 5.0.0 > Diagnostic-Code: smtp;554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't > have a > yahoo.com > account ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - mta416.mail.yahoo.com > 50-8BITMIME > 250-ETRN > 250-DSN > 250-XAUD 789199kw4293317241709 0.9 > 250 HELP > N CRAM-MD5 DIGEST-MD5 > 250-8BITMIME > 250 EHLO > > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29726&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
First and foremost, the Jason who started this thread isn't this Jason. :-) Having said that, I do believe that it is fair to say that NLI is far from being a scam, it's a business and like any business or product, you can chose to use it or not to use it. I have received a couple of updates from Marc in the last couple of months, as per their web site, this is not gurantee.. I've also been spam for "special offers" from another of their "associated companies" , which is not a big deal although it sure as hell irritates me... Marc has went beyond what he was oblighted in many ways and this is also the reason I tolerated the occassional spam... I'm looking forward to getting both CCBootCamp Security product (as well as Cert Zone's).. I'm wondering if IPExpert would come out with one too... There is no real significant differences between 1 Day lab and 2 day lab . The differences is more due to the new features in the IOS, namely QOS features, new additional parameters in the IOS for different protocols , e.g. OSPF, etc.. Of course, I do wish Marc would come up with a couple of labs to contain these new features.. ""Marc Russell"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Not even sure how to respond in a politically correct manner to a post such > as this, but I will try my best. I must say that if someone is going to > publicly slam a company as a "scam" it would carry more weight if they used > a real e-mail address and if it came from an individual that has actually > posted on Groupstudy before. However, I need to be fair and will just assume > that this user may have just setup a new e-mail account wrong and did not > intentionally try to hide behind a fake e-mail address for their first post > on Groupstudy. > > Yes, we have fallen behind in creating new labs, as we have been busy > creating new labs and setting up hardware for our Security CCIE products > that we are now just releasing. We have also been busy with several other > new products and upgrades that will become available next year. Expect to > see lab 21 for our R&S lab subscription in the next few weeks. Our > subscription product started with 7 labs and we have added 14 new labs since > then with another on the way very soon. > > In addition, our practice labs 1-20 are in the process of being upgraded to > the new 1-day format, removing old content on labs 1-14, and fixing all > known errors. All new labs will follow this format as they are released. > This upgrade will be offered as a complete set, when they are all complete. > Keep in mind that the 1-day or 2-day format issue is really a non-issue. The > content for both lab formats is the same. Now you just have your lab cabled > for you with same basic configs started and less time to work with. Your > preparation and knowledge for both exam types is exactly the same. The only > minor difference is the requirement for increased speed as you have less > time and the lack of a dedicated troubleshooting section. Subscription > customers will receive all updates and new labs as they are released for > free except for the cost of delivery. > > I do agree with part of your post. CCIE candidates should use Groupstudy's > open forum to exchange study ideas, strategies, labs, info, etc. I have > always recommended that all CCIE candidates join Paul's CCIE mailing list, > as it is a great resource. I have never recommended that a CCIE candidate > use our lab material as their only resource for preparation as any topic is > fair game on the lab exam and you may have some weak areas that need more > practice. However, as our reviews at > (http://www.ccbootcamp.com/customer_reviews.htm) show many individuals have > had great success working our company with many passing on their pass > attempt. The road to CCIE is very difficult and most individuals will have > to use a variety of resources to be successful. > > Did I create my company to make a buck? Heck yes. I didn't setup a training > room, 3800 sq. feet of office space, 5 remote racks, 6 classroom racks, a > development rack, hire people, etc. just for fun. There are many companies > that offer training services to help individuals to get certified in a > variety of computer technologies from a range of different manufacturers. We > are no different. > > > > Marc Russell CEO > Network Learning, Inc. > 1677 W. Hamlin > Rochester Hills, MI 48309 > Ph# 248-299-8114 > www.ccbootcamp.com > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ""Jason"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but correct me > > if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying little errors. > > Ccbootcamp says that > > it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the last 3 > > months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just looks to be > > a big scam! These guys > > wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, who made > > worth whil
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
No problem, maybe your e-mail was just down, but this is what I got when I tried to send you an e-mail. See below. The CCIE process is very expenesive. If $650.00 is very expensive then setting up a practice rack is probably out of reach. Extensive hands on practice with a rack of routers is the most important aspect of CCIE preparation. Marc Russell www.ccbootcamp.com Final-Recipient: rfc822;[EMAIL PROTECTED] Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: smtp;554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - mta416.mail.yahoo.com 50-8BITMIME 250-ETRN 250-DSN 250-XAUD 789199kw4293317241709 0.9 250 HELP N CRAM-MD5 DIGEST-MD5 250-8BITMIME 250 EHLO ""Nick S."" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > my email address works, and I wouldnt mind having a dialogue with you. > > The trouble is that Cisco has made this certification seem so "unachievable" > and so "frightening" and of course "so much wantable" that it creates a > market for "knowing the unknown" and "taming the untamed". So you are ok, in > looking at the tremendous opportunity amidst all this, and make a business > out of it. > > I am also aware of the fact that nothing in this world is free, and anything > that is free is NOT APPRECIATED. But there is a limit to how much you can > charge, especially with the non-proprietory nature of the knowledge. 650$ > translates to roughly 1200$ over here in Australia, and would translate to > about 30K in some places in Asia. And that includes just scenarios. > > So what are you doing, creating another MICROSOFT ? > > Nick S. > > ps. This is NOT a public Scam. Just a few things that I dont agree on. > > Marc Russell wrote: > > > > Not even sure how to respond in a politically correct manner to > > a post such > > as this, but I will try my best. I must say that if someone is > > going to > > publicly slam a company as a "scam" it would carry more weight > > if they used > > a real e-mail address and if it came from an individual that > > has actually > > posted on Groupstudy before. However, I need to be fair and > > will just assume > > that this user may have just setup a new e-mail account wrong > > and did not > > intentionally try to hide behind a fake e-mail address for > > their first post > > on Groupstudy. > > > > Yes, we have fallen behind in creating new labs, as we have > > been busy > > creating new labs and setting up hardware for our Security CCIE > > products > > that we are now just releasing. We have also been busy with > > several other > > new products and upgrades that will become available next year. > > Expect to > > see lab 21 for our R&S lab subscription in the next few weeks. > > Our > > subscription product started with 7 labs and we have added 14 > > new labs since > > then with another on the way very soon. > > > > In addition, our practice labs 1-20 are in the process of being > > upgraded to > > the new 1-day format, removing old content on labs 1-14, and > > fixing all > > known errors. All new labs will follow this format as they are > > released. > > This upgrade will be offered as a complete set, when they are > > all complete. > > Keep in mind that the 1-day or 2-day format issue is really a > > non-issue. The > > content for both lab formats is the same. Now you just have > > your lab cabled > > for you with same basic configs started and less time to work > > with. Your > > preparation and knowledge for both exam types is exactly the > > same. The only > > minor difference is the requirement for increased speed as you > > have less > > time and the lack of a dedicated troubleshooting section. > > Subscription > > customers will receive all updates and new labs as they are > > released for > > free except for the cost of delivery. > > > > I do agree with part of your post. CCIE candidates should use > > Groupstudy's > > open forum to exchange study ideas, strategies, labs, info, > > etc. I have > > always recommended that all CCIE candidates join Paul's CCIE > > mailing list, > > as it is a great resource. I have never recommended that a CCIE > > candidate > > use our lab material as their only resource for preparation as > > any topic is > > fair game on the lab exam and you may have some weak areas that > > need more > > practice. However, as our reviews at > > (http://www.ccbootcamp.com/customer_reviews.htm) show many > > individuals have > > had great success working our company with many passing on > > their pass > > attempt. The road to CCIE is very difficult and most > > individuals will have > > to use a variety of resources to be successful. > > > > Did I create my company to make a buck? Heck yes. I didn't > > setup a training > > room, 3800 sq. feet of office space, 5 remote racks, 6 > > classroom racks, a > > development rack, hire people, etc. just for fun. There are > > many companies > > that offer training services to help individuals to get > > certified in a > > variety of compute
RE: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
I just wanted to chime in and say as a purchaser of Marcs labs they are worth it and an excellent tool. I admit being skeptical before I decided to pay for the labs, but I reviewed the archives, asked the opinion of others in this mailing list, and when I received the labs I was very happy with the product. While I do not feel Marc should really have needed to try and justify himself here his activity in this mailing list and response shows you something about the company and the people behind it. I am also glad to hear about revisions for the new one day format and look forward with to this material with anticipation. Because of their lab workbooks (and close physical proximity) I look forward to sitting down for one of the classes held my Marc's company in the near future. -- Kevin Welch -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marc Russell Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512] Not even sure how to respond in a politically correct manner to a post such as this, but I will try my best. I must say that if someone is going to publicly slam a company as a "scam" it would carry more weight if they used a real e-mail address and if it came from an individual that has actually posted on Groupstudy before. However, I need to be fair and will just assume that this user may have just setup a new e-mail account wrong and did not intentionally try to hide behind a fake e-mail address for their first post on Groupstudy. Yes, we have fallen behind in creating new labs, as we have been busy creating new labs and setting up hardware for our Security CCIE products that we are now just releasing. We have also been busy with several other new products and upgrades that will become available next year. Expect to see lab 21 for our R&S lab subscription in the next few weeks. Our subscription product started with 7 labs and we have added 14 new labs since then with another on the way very soon. In addition, our practice labs 1-20 are in the process of being upgraded to the new 1-day format, removing old content on labs 1-14, and fixing all known errors. All new labs will follow this format as they are released. This upgrade will be offered as a complete set, when they are all complete. Keep in mind that the 1-day or 2-day format issue is really a non-issue. The content for both lab formats is the same. Now you just have your lab cabled for you with same basic configs started and less time to work with. Your preparation and knowledge for both exam types is exactly the same. The only minor difference is the requirement for increased speed as you have less time and the lack of a dedicated troubleshooting section. Subscription customers will receive all updates and new labs as they are released for free except for the cost of delivery. I do agree with part of your post. CCIE candidates should use Groupstudy's open forum to exchange study ideas, strategies, labs, info, etc. I have always recommended that all CCIE candidates join Paul's CCIE mailing list, as it is a great resource. I have never recommended that a CCIE candidate use our lab material as their only resource for preparation as any topic is fair game on the lab exam and you may have some weak areas that need more practice. However, as our reviews at (http://www.ccbootcamp.com/customer_reviews.htm) show many individuals have had great success working our company with many passing on their pass attempt. The road to CCIE is very difficult and most individuals will have to use a variety of resources to be successful. Did I create my company to make a buck? Heck yes. I didn't setup a training room, 3800 sq. feet of office space, 5 remote racks, 6 classroom racks, a development rack, hire people, etc. just for fun. There are many companies that offer training services to help individuals to get certified in a variety of computer technologies from a range of different manufacturers. We are no different. Marc Russell CEO Network Learning, Inc. 1677 W. Hamlin Rochester Hills, MI 48309 Ph# 248-299-8114 www.ccbootcamp.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but correct me > if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying little errors. > Ccbootcamp says that > it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the last 3 > months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just looks to be > a big scam! These guys > wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, who made > worth while labs. What a joke. Maybe, since we are all in this > together, we could collectively make > some labs and share them among the group. I will release some of the > ones I have been working on for FREE after I refine the
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
Marc, Since you're here, need to comment. I believed that your labs are great for those who will take the lab, but could you please consider that $650 is too expensive expecially when I'm in poor Asian country but had a DREAM TO BE CCIE. Ben Liang Tan (Still trying to get 4 magic number) >From: "Marc Russell" >Reply-To: "Marc Russell" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512] >Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:17:23 -0500 > >Not even sure how to respond in a politically correct manner to a post such >as this, but I will try my best. I must say that if someone is going to >publicly slam a company as a "scam" it would carry more weight if they used >a real e-mail address and if it came from an individual that has actually >posted on Groupstudy before. However, I need to be fair and will just >assume >that this user may have just setup a new e-mail account wrong and did not >intentionally try to hide behind a fake e-mail address for their first post >on Groupstudy. > >Yes, we have fallen behind in creating new labs, as we have been busy >creating new labs and setting up hardware for our Security CCIE products >that we are now just releasing. We have also been busy with several other >new products and upgrades that will become available next year. Expect to >see lab 21 for our R&S lab subscription in the next few weeks. Our >subscription product started with 7 labs and we have added 14 new labs >since >then with another on the way very soon. > >In addition, our practice labs 1-20 are in the process of being upgraded to >the new 1-day format, removing old content on labs 1-14, and fixing all >known errors. All new labs will follow this format as they are released. >This upgrade will be offered as a complete set, when they are all complete. >Keep in mind that the 1-day or 2-day format issue is really a non-issue. >The >content for both lab formats is the same. Now you just have your lab cabled >for you with same basic configs started and less time to work with. Your >preparation and knowledge for both exam types is exactly the same. The only >minor difference is the requirement for increased speed as you have less >time and the lack of a dedicated troubleshooting section. Subscription >customers will receive all updates and new labs as they are released for >free except for the cost of delivery. > >I do agree with part of your post. CCIE candidates should use Groupstudy's >open forum to exchange study ideas, strategies, labs, info, etc. I have >always recommended that all CCIE candidates join Paul's CCIE mailing list, >as it is a great resource. I have never recommended that a CCIE candidate >use our lab material as their only resource for preparation as any topic is >fair game on the lab exam and you may have some weak areas that need more >practice. However, as our reviews at >(http://www.ccbootcamp.com/customer_reviews.htm) show many individuals have >had great success working our company with many passing on their pass >attempt. The road to CCIE is very difficult and most individuals will have >to use a variety of resources to be successful. > >Did I create my company to make a buck? Heck yes. I didn't setup a training >room, 3800 sq. feet of office space, 5 remote racks, 6 classroom racks, a >development rack, hire people, etc. just for fun. There are many companies >that offer training services to help individuals to get certified in a >variety of computer technologies from a range of different manufacturers. >We >are no different. > > > >Marc Russell CEO >Network Learning, Inc. >1677 W. Hamlin >Rochester Hills, MI 48309 >Ph# 248-299-8114 >www.ccbootcamp.com >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >""Jason"" wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but correct me > > if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying little errors. > > Ccbootcamp says that > > it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the last 3 > > months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just looks to be > > a big scam! These guys > > wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, who made > > worth while labs. What a joke. Maybe, since we are all in this > > together, we could collectively make > > some labs and share them among the group. I will release some of the > > ones I have been working on for FREE after I refine them. I say forget > > ccbootcamp. They > > just want to make a buck. Its time this group got some quality labs with > > out having to spend even more money! > > > > -jaso
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
my email address works, and I wouldnt mind having a dialogue with you. The trouble is that Cisco has made this certification seem so "unachievable" and so "frightening" and of course "so much wantable" that it creates a market for "knowing the unknown" and "taming the untamed". So you are ok, in looking at the tremendous opportunity amidst all this, and make a business out of it. I am also aware of the fact that nothing in this world is free, and anything that is free is NOT APPRECIATED. But there is a limit to how much you can charge, especially with the non-proprietory nature of the knowledge. 650$ translates to roughly 1200$ over here in Australia, and would translate to about 30K in some places in Asia. And that includes just scenarios. So what are you doing, creating another MICROSOFT ? Nick S. ps. This is NOT a public Scam. Just a few things that I dont agree on. Marc Russell wrote: > > Not even sure how to respond in a politically correct manner to > a post such > as this, but I will try my best. I must say that if someone is > going to > publicly slam a company as a "scam" it would carry more weight > if they used > a real e-mail address and if it came from an individual that > has actually > posted on Groupstudy before. However, I need to be fair and > will just assume > that this user may have just setup a new e-mail account wrong > and did not > intentionally try to hide behind a fake e-mail address for > their first post > on Groupstudy. > > Yes, we have fallen behind in creating new labs, as we have > been busy > creating new labs and setting up hardware for our Security CCIE > products > that we are now just releasing. We have also been busy with > several other > new products and upgrades that will become available next year. > Expect to > see lab 21 for our R&S lab subscription in the next few weeks. > Our > subscription product started with 7 labs and we have added 14 > new labs since > then with another on the way very soon. > > In addition, our practice labs 1-20 are in the process of being > upgraded to > the new 1-day format, removing old content on labs 1-14, and > fixing all > known errors. All new labs will follow this format as they are > released. > This upgrade will be offered as a complete set, when they are > all complete. > Keep in mind that the 1-day or 2-day format issue is really a > non-issue. The > content for both lab formats is the same. Now you just have > your lab cabled > for you with same basic configs started and less time to work > with. Your > preparation and knowledge for both exam types is exactly the > same. The only > minor difference is the requirement for increased speed as you > have less > time and the lack of a dedicated troubleshooting section. > Subscription > customers will receive all updates and new labs as they are > released for > free except for the cost of delivery. > > I do agree with part of your post. CCIE candidates should use > Groupstudy's > open forum to exchange study ideas, strategies, labs, info, > etc. I have > always recommended that all CCIE candidates join Paul's CCIE > mailing list, > as it is a great resource. I have never recommended that a CCIE > candidate > use our lab material as their only resource for preparation as > any topic is > fair game on the lab exam and you may have some weak areas that > need more > practice. However, as our reviews at > (http://www.ccbootcamp.com/customer_reviews.htm) show many > individuals have > had great success working our company with many passing on > their pass > attempt. The road to CCIE is very difficult and most > individuals will have > to use a variety of resources to be successful. > > Did I create my company to make a buck? Heck yes. I didn't > setup a training > room, 3800 sq. feet of office space, 5 remote racks, 6 > classroom racks, a > development rack, hire people, etc. just for fun. There are > many companies > that offer training services to help individuals to get > certified in a > variety of computer technologies from a range of different > manufacturers. We > are no different. > > > > Marc Russell CEO > Network Learning, Inc. > 1677 W. Hamlin > Rochester Hills, MI 48309 > Ph# 248-299-8114 > www.ccbootcamp.com > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ""Jason"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but > correct me > > if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying > little errors. > > Ccbootcamp says that > > it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the > last 3 > > months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just > looks to be > > a big scam! These guys > > wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, > who made > > worth while labs. What a joke. Maybe, since we are all in > this > > together, we could collectively make > > some labs and share them among the group. I will release > some of the > > ones I have been working on f
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
You hit the nail on the head Chuck, and I have told others that what they have you do in the lab is configure a working network in such a way you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Yes it's turned into an profit making industry but it hasn't always been so. When I went to the lab there was one lab, San Jose, and there were no books, mail lists, boot camps, etc... As big as Cisco is they are market driven and as long as people see a value in obtaining a cert they will do so and someone will offer help in getting there, it's called free market economics. And Jason, if you know how to design quality labs, make them available for free, something the for profits in your eyes can't, what ya waitin for!!! Sound like your just lettin off steam dude. Dave Chuck Larrieu wrote: > having expressed similar sentiments myself, I'm not disagreeing in > principal. > > However, I would suggest that there is still MUCH of value in the bootcamp > labs. > > Being a two time loser, I am re-examining my study methods. One of the > conclusions I've reached is that I have been looking at the practice > materials in a less than optimal manner. I still believe that one major part > is correctly identifying the core topics, and mastering them. But I am > adding a bit of dimension that I have been overlooking. for example - if I > were to determine that redistribution was a core topic, then instead of > concentrating merely on redistributing between protocols ( something that > still should be studied ) I should also concentrate on gaining familiarity > with various tools that can be used for redistribution and route filtering. > that might mean distribute lists, route tagging, and route maps, and various > combinations of them all. > > If I believe that ip telephony is a core topic, then I might want to > familiarize myself with the kinds of things that must be done to set up dial > peers in various ways. And there are a lot of ways to do that, so I am > discovering. > > if I believe that authentication is a core topic, then I might want to > practice authentication for all the routing protocols that support it, and > for NTP, which can use authentication. Not to mention ISDN PAP and CHAP. > > if I believe that well, you get the idea. > > One thing I think everyone who has gone through the lab will agree upon - > the scenarios are designed to trip you up by requiring something that on the > face of it is stupid. the most famous of these is the "no static route" rule > that seems to have become common knowledge. there are a number of others, > all designed to screw reachability, which in turn costs you because you > can't perform other tasks properly. I have heard others use the term > "twisted" to describe some of the lab scenarios. > > that being the case, bootcamp labs do force one to think in a similar > "twisted" manner. > > as to NLI "making a buck of those pursuing their CCIE" more power to them. > Hell, Cisco is making a buck on that too. > > best wishes. > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Jason > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:32 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512] > > I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but correct me > if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying little errors. > Ccbootcamp says that > it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the last 3 > months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just looks to be > a big scam! These guys > wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, who made > worth while labs. What a joke. Maybe, since we are all in this > together, we could collectively make > some labs and share them among the group. I will release some of the > ones I have been working on for FREE after I refine them. I say forget > ccbootcamp. They > just want to make a buck. Its time this group got some quality labs with > out having to spend even more money! > > -jason > Pissed off individuale, tired of people making a buck of OUR quest for > the CCIE -- David Madland CCIE# 2016 Senior Network Engineer Qwest Communications 612-664-3367 Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29608&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
Not even sure how to respond in a politically correct manner to a post such as this, but I will try my best. I must say that if someone is going to publicly slam a company as a "scam" it would carry more weight if they used a real e-mail address and if it came from an individual that has actually posted on Groupstudy before. However, I need to be fair and will just assume that this user may have just setup a new e-mail account wrong and did not intentionally try to hide behind a fake e-mail address for their first post on Groupstudy. Yes, we have fallen behind in creating new labs, as we have been busy creating new labs and setting up hardware for our Security CCIE products that we are now just releasing. We have also been busy with several other new products and upgrades that will become available next year. Expect to see lab 21 for our R&S lab subscription in the next few weeks. Our subscription product started with 7 labs and we have added 14 new labs since then with another on the way very soon. In addition, our practice labs 1-20 are in the process of being upgraded to the new 1-day format, removing old content on labs 1-14, and fixing all known errors. All new labs will follow this format as they are released. This upgrade will be offered as a complete set, when they are all complete. Keep in mind that the 1-day or 2-day format issue is really a non-issue. The content for both lab formats is the same. Now you just have your lab cabled for you with same basic configs started and less time to work with. Your preparation and knowledge for both exam types is exactly the same. The only minor difference is the requirement for increased speed as you have less time and the lack of a dedicated troubleshooting section. Subscription customers will receive all updates and new labs as they are released for free except for the cost of delivery. I do agree with part of your post. CCIE candidates should use Groupstudy's open forum to exchange study ideas, strategies, labs, info, etc. I have always recommended that all CCIE candidates join Paul's CCIE mailing list, as it is a great resource. I have never recommended that a CCIE candidate use our lab material as their only resource for preparation as any topic is fair game on the lab exam and you may have some weak areas that need more practice. However, as our reviews at (http://www.ccbootcamp.com/customer_reviews.htm) show many individuals have had great success working our company with many passing on their pass attempt. The road to CCIE is very difficult and most individuals will have to use a variety of resources to be successful. Did I create my company to make a buck? Heck yes. I didn't setup a training room, 3800 sq. feet of office space, 5 remote racks, 6 classroom racks, a development rack, hire people, etc. just for fun. There are many companies that offer training services to help individuals to get certified in a variety of computer technologies from a range of different manufacturers. We are no different. Marc Russell CEO Network Learning, Inc. 1677 W. Hamlin Rochester Hills, MI 48309 Ph# 248-299-8114 www.ccbootcamp.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but correct me > if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying little errors. > Ccbootcamp says that > it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the last 3 > months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just looks to be > a big scam! These guys > wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, who made > worth while labs. What a joke. Maybe, since we are all in this > together, we could collectively make > some labs and share them among the group. I will release some of the > ones I have been working on for FREE after I refine them. I say forget > ccbootcamp. They > just want to make a buck. Its time this group got some quality labs with > out having to spend even more money! > > -jason > Pissed off individuale, tired of people making a buck of OUR quest for > the CCIE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29603&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
having expressed similar sentiments myself, I'm not disagreeing in principal. However, I would suggest that there is still MUCH of value in the bootcamp labs. Being a two time loser, I am re-examining my study methods. One of the conclusions I've reached is that I have been looking at the practice materials in a less than optimal manner. I still believe that one major part is correctly identifying the core topics, and mastering them. But I am adding a bit of dimension that I have been overlooking. for example - if I were to determine that redistribution was a core topic, then instead of concentrating merely on redistributing between protocols ( something that still should be studied ) I should also concentrate on gaining familiarity with various tools that can be used for redistribution and route filtering. that might mean distribute lists, route tagging, and route maps, and various combinations of them all. If I believe that ip telephony is a core topic, then I might want to familiarize myself with the kinds of things that must be done to set up dial peers in various ways. And there are a lot of ways to do that, so I am discovering. if I believe that authentication is a core topic, then I might want to practice authentication for all the routing protocols that support it, and for NTP, which can use authentication. Not to mention ISDN PAP and CHAP. if I believe that well, you get the idea. One thing I think everyone who has gone through the lab will agree upon - the scenarios are designed to trip you up by requiring something that on the face of it is stupid. the most famous of these is the "no static route" rule that seems to have become common knowledge. there are a number of others, all designed to screw reachability, which in turn costs you because you can't perform other tasks properly. I have heard others use the term "twisted" to describe some of the lab scenarios. that being the case, bootcamp labs do force one to think in a similar "twisted" manner. as to NLI "making a buck of those pursuing their CCIE" more power to them. Hell, Cisco is making a buck on that too. best wishes. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512] I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but correct me if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying little errors. Ccbootcamp says that it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the last 3 months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just looks to be a big scam! These guys wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, who made worth while labs. What a joke. Maybe, since we are all in this together, we could collectively make some labs and share them among the group. I will release some of the ones I have been working on for FREE after I refine them. I say forget ccbootcamp. They just want to make a buck. Its time this group got some quality labs with out having to spend even more money! -jason Pissed off individuale, tired of people making a buck of OUR quest for the CCIE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29595&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
Jason, I hate to do this, and I know that the "ccie gods" and "god makers" will not like me for this, BUT ISNT THERE A WAY TO BYPASS THESE PROFIT MAKERS and have our own stand. I have read from numerous posts (including one from Chuck Larrieu) that "EVERYTHING U NEED TO BE A CCIE IS ON CCO" its just a matter of finding it. and then use ur imagination to create 3 scenario's from every scenario found on CCO, and voila you have some really "tricky labs". >From what I have seen with the so-called-complex lab scenario's is nothing but mixing a few individual labs (the trick is to be as vague as cisco can be and does, ask the boson guys :) So lets all of us make an effort to find an "alternate path" to be a CCIE. Lets deviate from the "chosen path". In fact, I am in. I wouldnt mind being a part of a group, where one can exchange study tips, exchange "convoluted labs" that one creates with ones own imagination etc. In fact thats prolly the essence behind the creation of Group Study. From what I think and know it wasnt created with profit in mind !! Nick S. ps. I live in a capitalist country, and have no affiliations to any communist organisations :) Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29585&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp labs [7:29512]
Here here! The k1d ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I was looking in to purchasing the labs from ccbootcamp, but correct me > if I am wrong, they look outdated and full of annoying little errors. > Ccbootcamp says that > it is a subscription but how many have they sent out in the last 3 > months? Zero! Or even the last six months. One! This just looks to be > a big scam! These guys > wouldn't last a minute if there was some real competition, who made > worth while labs. What a joke. Maybe, since we are all in this > together, we could collectively make > some labs and share them among the group. I will release some of the > ones I have been working on for FREE after I refine them. I say forget > ccbootcamp. They > just want to make a buck. Its time this group got some quality labs with > out having to spend even more money! > > -jason > Pissed off individuale, tired of people making a buck of OUR quest for > the CCIE Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29583&t=29512 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
