Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

That’s a good way to do it.  CSYC’s bylaws allow the board to designate types 
of auxiliary members as opposed to full members.  Auxiliary members don’t have 
voting rights.  For example CSYC has crew memberships.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Dec 19, 2018, at 9:29 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Charlie,
> 
> If the OD club members don't want to take advantage of your facilities on a 
> full time basis, I'd consider a special membership category for them.  My 
> club has a couple of membership categories for young sailors or racers, etc.  
> Perhaps you could change your bylaws to include a race membership category 
> with reduced annual dues.  Such members would not have full benefits or 
> voting rights.  Only the privilege of using your facilities during official 
> race events.  The reduced dues would be additional revenue for your club and 
> help support the race program.
> 
> We have a "paper club" in the area that routinely approaches our area sailing 
> association for full membership as a yacht club.  Our association has 
> steadfastly refused to allow them to join.  They want to use our facilities 
> as a member club without paying anything or being able to reciprocate.  They 
> have no facility and pay annual dues of less than 5-10% of our member clubs' 
> dues.  Their rationale for joining is they are a sailing club and they should 
> be allowed to join.  If we allowed that, all our members would resign, join 
> the paper club and enjoy the facility at 1/10 the cost.  NOT!
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 8:48 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Hello all CnCers;
> 
> I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
> especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 
> 'paper only' can also chime in.
> 
> Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
> club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
> located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
> modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
> storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 
> 
> Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
> to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
> reasonable.
> 
> Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
> OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
> club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
> club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
> helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
> etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
> members of these fleets/clubs. 
> 
> I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
> racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
> clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
> things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
> (taxes, upkeep, etc.).
> 
> Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
> associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them 
> with personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 
> boats). This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several 
> races per day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to 
> support local sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the 
> majority of our members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, 
> etc. Hence our dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose 
> majority are cruisers or day sailors?
> 
> What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
> club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a 
> relative minority of your otherwise cruising members:
> 
> Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?
> 
> Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
> racing?
> 
> Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?
> 
> Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club 
> facilities such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?
> 
> Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover racing 
> expenses?
> 
> This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper clubs 
> may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any agreement 
> between us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first time. Further, I 
> am sure that this is not the first time this problem has come up in sailing 
> clubs with racers as 

Re: Stus-List Access

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

FSR, Barkeeper's Friend, Wood Bleach; anything with oxalic acid in it.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 at 04:12, Elizabeth McDonald via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We joined this list a few years ago as Breakaweigh 1,  have since sold it
> and purchased a 35 mk3 , had a question re rust on fibreglass, any tips on
> removing it!
>
> Liz McDonald
> Rhumb Runner
> Belfast Maine
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

  
  
Fair enough.  I do buy refurbished gear sometimes as well.  I was
  more thinking I'm not going to try and piece together a new
  transducer to the old display.
Raymarine doesn't have any of what I need right now in the referb
  section (only a depth display with no transducer)
Thanks,
Mark





There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
On 2018-12-19 5:14 PM, David Knecht via
  CnC-List wrote:


  
  I would disagree on one point.  I frequently buy refurbished
  electronics for boat and home and have not had a problem yet.  My
  logic is that at least the refurbished item has been specifically
  tested and shown to work up to spec.  That is more than the
  standard stuff off the assembly line gets.  Dave
  

  
S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT






  
  
  
  
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Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I would disagree on one point.  I frequently buy refurbished electronics for 
boat and home and have not had a problem yet.  My logic is that at least the 
refurbished item has been specifically tested and shown to work up to spec.  
That is more than the standard stuff off the assembly line gets.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT




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Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie. Your club sounds similar to ours in size and operation.  
We charge typical club fees to cover operating expenses etc but have a separate 
fee for those who participate in the Wednesday night racing program. The charge 
covers equipment, committee boat costs and puts some aside for upgrades such a 
marks, training etc which has allowed us to host national events.  Some of that 
fee also goes to Sail Canada which may cover some of the insurance but I’m not 
entirely sure on how that works. 
For weekend regattas we charge for each race but it’s usually a very small fee. 
This keeps all the cruisers happy.
Our docks are federally owned and fees are separate from the club.  

Brent Driedger
27-5
Lake Winnipeg. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 9:03 PM, svrebeccaleah via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Charlie,
> At my club, we own buildings, and docks. Most members are powerboaters(170 
> boats). We have a committee (1 guy) that handles the racing. We set aside a 
> portion of the annual budget for the racing. Members get work party time for 
> helping out with the race committee boat. We also work closely with a paper 
> only club. 
> Hope this answers some of your questions
> 
> 
> Doug Mountjoy 
> Sv Rebecca Leah 
> LH39
> Port Orchard YC wa.
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> Date: 12/18/18 18:47 (GMT-08:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: cenel...@aol.com
> Subject: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers
> 
> Hello all CnCers;
> 
> I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
> especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 
> 'paper only' can also chime in.
> 
> Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
> club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
> located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
> modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
> storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 
> 
> Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
> to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
> reasonable.
> 
> Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
> OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
> club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
> club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
> helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
> etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
> members of these fleets/clubs. 
> 
> I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
> racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
> clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
> things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
> (taxes, upkeep, etc.).
> 
> Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
> associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them 
> with personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 
> boats). This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several 
> races per day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to 
> support local sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the 
> majority of our members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, 
> etc. Hence our dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose 
> majority are cruisers or day sailors?
> 
> What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
> club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a 
> relative minority of your otherwise cruising members:
> 
> Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?
> 
> Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
> racing?
> 
> Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?
> 
> Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club 
> facilities such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?
> 
> Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover racing 
> expenses?
> 
> This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper clubs 
> may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any agreement 
> between us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first time. Further, I 
> am sure that this is not the first time this problem has come up in sailing 
> clubs with racers as members, albeit in a minority.
> 
> Any suggestions on how your club handles these issues or others similar to 
> these would be appreciated, including copies of by-laws, etc. that 

Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 We charge racers a separate fee from the YC dues.  That covers equipment 
purchases and rental of mark set boats.  All labor is volunteer.RonWild 
CheriC 30-1STL

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018, 8:48:25 PM CST, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello all CnCers;
I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 'paper 
only' can also chime in.
Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 
Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
reasonable.
Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
members of these fleets/clubs. 
I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
(taxes, upkeep, etc.).
Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them with 
personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 boats). 
This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several races per 
day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to support local 
sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the majority of our 
members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, etc. Hence our 
dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose majority are 
cruisers or day sailors?
What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a relative 
minority of your otherwise cruising members:
Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?
Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
racing?
Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?
Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club facilities 
such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?
Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover racing 
expenses?
This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper clubs 
may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any agreement between 
us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first time. Further, I am sure 
that this is not the first time this problem has come up in sailing clubs with 
racers as members, albeit in a minority.
Any suggestions on how your club handles these issues or others similar to 
these would be appreciated, including copies of by-laws, etc. that spell out 
how such issues are addressed.
Thanks in advance,
Charlie NelsonRear Commodore (to be in 2019!)Blackbeard Sailing ClubNew Bern, 
NC1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom
cenel...@aol.com
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Re: Stus-List Access

[Ian Matthew via CnC-List]

Hi Liz

I just had my 29.1 hauled and used “On and Off” GEL hull cleaner. It is so
easy to use. Brush it on and wait for the stain to disappear then rinse it
off. Works like a charm. My white hull has no stains now and having just
waxed it should stay that way. I highly recommend “On and Off” but make
sure you get the Gel. (Yellow label).

Good luck
Ian Matthew
C 29 mk 1. “Siento el Viento”
San Francisco Bay.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:12 AM Elizabeth McDonald via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We joined this list a few years ago as Breakaweigh 1,  have since sold it
> and purchased a 35 mk3 , had a question re rust on fibreglass, any tips on
> removing it!
>
> Liz McDonald
> Rhumb Runner
> Belfast Maine
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Ian Matthew
"Siento el Viento" C 29-1
San Francisco Bay

Sent from my iPad using Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

  
  
Thanks everyone for the replys.
Fred - If I was going to go with the i40 instruments then I would
  just replace the depth sounder - I wouldn't be adding wind
  instruments as part of the i40 group.  
Don't think I'm going to go refurbished or The big question - do
  I jump to the whole package and add in the wind sensor or just
  replace the existing depth.  

Dwight noted the benefits of all the extra info - but I have to
  admit I have zero experience in that area --- my sailing history
  is in dinghys with zero instruments, and my last 2 keel boats with
  only depth and speed.  Add that more often than not I don't have
  "crew"

I guess the single transducer speed/depth/temp adds another minor
  complexity - I'd have a thru-hull to plug.  But I have a couple
  unused thru-hulls from my conversion to composting head - so I'll
  need to patch those sometime soon anyway.
I'm going to take a closer look at my wires - see if there is any
  sign of damage that could be repaired.   If no luck I'll have to
  decide which way to go.  

I'll likely wait for boat show sales to see if there are deals -
  or Fred do you have deals on an i70 system?  

Mark






There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
On 2018-12-18 5:33 PM, Frederick G
  Street via CnC-List wrote:


  
  Mark — I would NOT consider the i40 system for wind; your only
  choice for a wind transducer is one suitable only for power boats.
  
  
  The i70 is a nice system; and yes, you do get water
temp with it, as the transducer is a single depth/speed/temp
transducer.  And you get a much better wind transducer.
  
  
  — Fred

  
  
  Fred Street -- Minneapolis
  S/V Oceanis (1979
  C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield,
  WI   :^(




  


  


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Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I'm not a member of the local Sailing club (Southern Maryland Sailing
Association - SMSA) but I reached out to one of the members and here is his
response.

*Yes Randy is similar to SMSA. We have a club associated with SMSA they are
SCC that is for kids. Most (but not all) have parents in SMSA. We allow
them a set number of days to use our club for non-race events such as
meetings, ice cream socials, and pot lucks. We do not charge them a fee but
they do not use our race equipment because they have their own. Basically
it is no cost to SMSA other than slight increase in utilities which is born
by SMSA. If they were to use our RC equipment they would have to cover
costs by paying the same race fee as SMSA members. As for liability
insurance it is to protect SMSA and its board members not individual boats.
As you know if there is an incident during an event they will try to sue
anyone that has money. Boats should have their own insurance. Another thing
is the sister club should be required to help maintain/clean the club
especially on scheduled work days.*


Hope that helps,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD





On Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 10:48 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Charlie,
>
> Interesting dilemma.
>
> The one point that really jumped out at me is that the One-Design club
> proposing to associate with BSC has (only) ~10 boats for their weekday
> races.  That’s a small operation.  It sounds like that OD club has more to
> gain from the BSC association than vice-versa; it sounds like BSC would be
> essentially subsidizing the OD club’s activity (racing) in one way or
> another.
>
> I’m a six-year active member and past Commodore of Colorado Sail & Yacht
> Club (https://csyc.org).  But our situation is exactly the opposite of
> yours: we are primarily a racing club comprised of multiple one-design and
> PRHF fleets, with about 80 members (half “full”, half “crew/dinghy") and
> three dozen keelboats racing in a good year, and about 45 days worth of
> racing per year.  We have a social program that’s kind of hit or miss
> depending on the event, and a fledgling cruising program that is attracting
> some interest.  We own capital assets in the form of a pontoon boat for RC,
> marks, flags, etc. racing equipment, but we don’t own any real estate
> assets (we operate at a state park and use its amenities).  We do have a
> tiny minority of members who join the club but don’t race, some of whom own
> boats and even some who don't.  Some do it for access to the social events,
> and some for reciprocal privileges at other yacht clubs.  I measure the
> health of our club by how many keelboats register and show up to race in
> our series races and regattas, and by how many dinghies participate in our
> dinghy series.  Less so by how many people show up at social and cruising
> events; we’re primarily a racing club.
>
> To your questions:
>
> * Yes CSYC supplies RC and mark/safety boats and personnel to our racers.
> We rotate - every full member is required to perform two such personnel
> duties per year.
>
> * No the racers are not covered by the club’s liability insurance.  We
> require all boats entering races to provide proof of insurance.  Our policy
> only covers our RC boat, M insurance, etc.
>
> * Yes the club charges a fee for the support it provides.  There is a base
> membership fee plus separate entry fees for every race.
>
> * No the club doesn't impose fees on the racers for use of (rented)
> facilities.  Those costs are paid from the club’s general account funded by
> base membership fees.  We do impose fees for special dinners e.g. a low
> country boil we do every year after one of our regattas.
>
> * Yes CSYC charges additional fees to racing members to cover racing
> expenses.  The per-race fees are primarily to cover things like trophies,
> race official gifts, etc.
>
> Our governing documents are available at
> https://csyc.org/csyc-documents/csyc-bylaws-and-policies/ but they barely
> touch on the idea of an association with another club.
>
> Best Regards,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C 30-1 #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> CSYC Past Commodore
>
> On Dec 18, 2018, at 7:47 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all CnCers;
>
> I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht
> Clubs, especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs
> are 'paper only' can also chime in.
>
> Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a
> sailing club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other
> buildings located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River.
> Dues are modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also
> have dry storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees.
>
> Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals
> used to replace entire dock sections, etc. which 

Re: Stus-List Sailing club with racers

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Thanks to all who responded. Not unexpectedly the solutions are as varied as 
the circumstances within the clubs!
 
However, they did suggest some ideas that we may need to consider, especially 
ensuring that a paper club affiliation
with a club with real estate is fair to all concerned.
 
Charlie Nelson
 
cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Charlie,

If the OD club members don't want to take advantage of your facilities on a
full time basis, I'd consider a special membership category for them.  My
club has a couple of membership categories for young sailors or racers,
etc.  Perhaps you could change your bylaws to include a race membership
category with reduced annual dues.  Such members would not have full
benefits or voting rights.  Only the privilege of using your facilities
during official race events.  The reduced dues would be additional revenue
for your club and help support the race program.

We have a "paper club" in the area that routinely approaches our area
sailing association for full membership as a yacht club.  Our association
has steadfastly refused to allow them to join.  They want to use our
facilities as a member club without paying anything or being able to
reciprocate.  They have no facility and pay annual dues of less than 5-10%
of our member clubs' dues.  Their rationale for joining is they are a
sailing club and they should be allowed to join.  If we allowed that, all
our members would resign, join the paper club and enjoy the facility at
1/10 the cost.  NOT!

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 8:48 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all CnCers;
>
> I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht
> Clubs, especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs
> are 'paper only' can also chime in.
>
> Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a
> sailing club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other
> buildings located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River.
> Dues are modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also
> have dry storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees.
>
> Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals
> used to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to
> be kept reasonable.
>
> Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either
> in a OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an
> active club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper
> club). Our club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2
> annually and often helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC
> personnel, equipment, etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many
> club members are also members of these fleets/clubs.
>
> I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to
> racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these
> racing clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this
> keeps things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property
> concerns (taxes, upkeep, etc.).
>
> Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them
> to associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist
> them with personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~
> 10 boats). This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with
> several races per day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are
> keen to support local sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be
> mindful of the majority of our members who do not race but certainly pay
> dues, slip fees, etc. Hence our dilemma--how do we support our racing
> minority in a club whose majority are cruisers or day sailors?
>
> What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how
> your club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a
> relative minority of your otherwise cruising members:
>
> Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your
> racers?
>
> Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the
> water racing?
>
> Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?
>
> Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club
> facilities such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?
>
> Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover
> racing expenses?
>
> This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper
> clubs may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any
> agreement between us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first
> time. Further, I am sure that this is not the first time this problem has
> come up in sailing clubs with racers as members, albeit in a minority.
>
> Any suggestions on how your club handles these issues or others similar to
> these would be appreciated, including copies of by-laws, etc. that spell
> out how such issues are addressed.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Rear Commodore (to be in 2019!)
> Blackbeard Sailing Club
> New Bern, NC
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
>
> cenel...@aol.com
> 

Re: Stus-List Winter cover for 37/40

[David via CnC-List]

Brian...where are you?


David F. Risch, J. D.

Gulf Stream Associates, LLC

(401) 419-4650


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Brian Fry via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 2:48 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: Brian Fry
Subject: Stus-List Winter cover for 37/40

I have a cover, complete frame and clamps. Cover is usable, a few minor tears. 
If you can pick it up you can have it for a donation to Stu.

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]
Virus-free. 
www.avast.com
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Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Charlie,

My club, City Island Yacht Club, is a club that has land, a clubhouse, and is 
heavily sailing oriented, with a large percentage of racing members. As such, 
the club has two racing organizations. 

The first is the club itself, which runs several races over the season. The 
club does not directly own a committee boat nor does it own/maintain racing 
marks (more on that in a few). It has its own regatta budget and a regatta 
chairperson who administers the events. The budget is fixed, meaning that the 
income (entry fees, sponsorships) go back to the club, not the club’s racing 
program. 

The second is an organization in which the club has a partnership- Eastchester 
Bay Yacht Racing Association (EBYRA). EBYRA has its own board and their own 
events, including a beer-can evening series and a few day race series. EBYRA 
owns a committee boat and race marks, which each of the three owner clubs may 
have access to. All of EBYRA’s finances are self-contained. It pays for 
insurance, awards, fuel, gear, PRO fees, etc. from its entry fees and 
sponsorship income. I was on the board of EBYRA for 19 years, including 13 as 
its Commodore. 

Happy to discuss the setup and arrangement directly (off list)  if you like. 

All the best,

Edd

Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No. NCC-1701-B
City Island, New York
——-
914.774.9767 - iPhone
——-
Sent from my iPad
iPad. iTypos. iApologize

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 10:47 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all CnCers;
> 
> I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
> especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 
> 'paper only' can also chime in.
> 
> Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
> club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
> located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
> modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
> storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 
> 
> Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
> to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
> reasonable.
> 
> Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
> OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
> club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
> club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
> helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
> etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
> members of these fleets/clubs. 
> 
> I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
> racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
> clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
> things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
> (taxes, upkeep, etc.).
> 
> Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
> associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them 
> with personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 
> boats). This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several 
> races per day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to 
> support local sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the 
> majority of our members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, 
> etc. Hence our dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose 
> majority are cruisers or day sailors?
> 
> What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
> club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a 
> relative minority of your otherwise cruising members:
> 
> Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?
> 
> Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
> racing?
> 
> Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?
> 
> Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club 
> facilities such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?
> 
> Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover racing 
> expenses?
> 
> This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper clubs 
> may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any agreement 
> between us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first time. Further, I 
> am sure that this is not the first time this problem has come up in sailing 
> clubs with racers as members, albeit in a minority.
> 
> Any suggestions on how your club handles these issues or others similar to 
> these would be appreciated, 

Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

See responses below.

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 9:47 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: cenel...@aol.com 
Subject: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

Hello all CnCers; 

I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 'paper 
only' can also chime in.

Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 

Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
reasonable.

Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
members of these fleets/clubs. 

I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
(taxes, upkeep, etc.).

Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them with 
personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 boats). 
This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several races per 
day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to support local 
sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the majority of our 
members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, etc. Hence our 
dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose majority are 
cruisers or day sailors?

What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a relative 
minority of your otherwise cruising members:

Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?

Our club supplies a Race Committee boat for the PHRF racing fleet.  The 
fleet includes a main and jib fleet (referred to as JAM) that has a very 
popular Wednesday evening race series and which also occasionally races on 
Sundays.  The Wednesday night races typically have four or five divisions 
without about 50 boats total.  These races are usually started and finished 
from shore, so the boat doesn’t go out.  The active spin racing fleet has about 
a dozen or so boats, and the RC boat usually goes out to start and finish these 
races.  The racing fleet operates on its own annual dues structure, which pays 
for gas for the boat and, I believe, a stipend for the Race Committee members.  
Results are handled by one of the regular racers (free).  The dues for the JAM 
fleet are about $100, and for spin and JAM combined about $150.  I believe the 
Club occasionally kicks in some assistance, like a keg of beer for a special 
event.

We also have a sailing school that operates more or less with its own 
budget, but with some financial help from the Club.  Occasionally, races are 
scheduled (like an invitational), and the RC boat is usually used for these.  
The sailing school also has an affiliated Foundation that helps financially.


Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
racing?

All PHRF racers must have their own insurance as a pre-condition to signing up. 
 Whether or not the Club also has some coverage for PHRF events is probably up 
for debate.  I suspect the the Club’s carrier would argue no.  I would think 
that the Club has coverage for the sailing school activities as the instructors 
are seasonal employees.


Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?

The Club does not charge a separate fee for PHRF activities but, as indicated 
above, the Club-based PHRF fleet itself does.  The Club does charge a fee for 
the sailing school, which more or less pays for the instructors.  The Club also 
helps with capital expenses for the sailing school (mostly replacing 
Optis/420s) and does not charge a separate fee for this.


Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club facilities 
such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?

I don’t believe so.  The Club benefits from the PHRF 

Re: Stus-List Access

[coltrek--- via CnC-List]

Acid based cleaners. Or you can start with vinegar

Bill Coleman
C 39
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 Elizabeth McDonald via CnC-List 
 wrote:
We joined this list a few years ago as Breakaweigh 1,  have since sold it and 
purchased a 35 mk3 , had a question re rust on fibreglass, any tips on removing 
it!

Liz McDonald
Rhumb Runner
Belfast Maine

Sent from my iPad
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Access

[Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List]

Bottom of this page should help you out:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C 30
   Armdale Y.C.

On 12/19/2018 8:12 AM, Elizabeth McDonald via CnC-List wrote:

We joined this list a few years ago as Breakaweigh 1,  have since sold it and 
purchased a 35 mk3 , had a question re rust on fibreglass, any tips on removing 
it!

Liz McDonald
Rhumb Runner
Belfast Maine

Sent from my iPad
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray





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Stus-List Access

[Elizabeth McDonald via CnC-List]

We joined this list a few years ago as Breakaweigh 1,  have since sold it and 
purchased a 35 mk3 , had a question re rust on fibreglass, any tips on removing 
it!

Liz McDonald
Rhumb Runner
Belfast Maine

Sent from my iPad
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray