Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Yes, I saw that listing when it came up the other day - the first 30 mk2
locally that I've seen. I love the interior (on paper at least), but the
price might make me wonder if we should have bought a bigger boat. It may
sound strange, but I also don't want to get a boat that is *too* nice. It's
like having a nice car - I don't want to get really upset the first time I
crash the dock with a boat like that... so one with a few dings included
will be easier for me... :)

Also, with the hopes of travelling down the coast to Mexico and beyond,
even a modern 30' might not be enough for long term comfort, although I
know people who gone around the globe (twice) in a 27...

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 7:12 PM Randy Stafford 
wrote:

> Shawn have you seen this boat?
> https://nanaimo.craigslist.org/boa/d/ladysmith-1989-cc-30-mk2-sloop/6865778294.html
>
> It’s true the 30 MK I layout is simple and the appointments spartan in the
> early hull numbers like mine.  That’s OK for me, I keep her stripped down
> and only occasionally sleep or cook aboard.
>
> The MK II listed above is more luxurious, and the asking price may reflect
> that.  Perhaps the seller would consider a lower offer.
>
> Cheers,
> Randy
>
> On Apr 17, 2019, at 7:30 PM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Ok, here's the backstory... We started out looking at 27-30' boats, with
> the hope of finding a C&C 30-1 based on what I'd read about its stiffness.
> The first one we found was $25K and although it was in very good condition,
> we just weren't that impressed, mainly with the interior layout. Gradually
> I started looking at anything up to about $35K, which has included a lot of
> boats: Westsail 32, Nicholson 31 & 35 (both very nice boats - should have
> bought the 35), Alberg 37, Niagara 35, Ericson 29, 30+, 32, 35, Newport 28,
> 33, C&C 35-2, 36, 37. Of these, the C&C 35-2 and Nicholson 35 have
> impressed me the most. The Nicholson is probably one of 3-4 on the
> continent, so I don't expect to find another. The C&C 35-2 seems like a
> great fit, but I don't expect I'll find another for $25K around here.
>
> My wife grew up boating on a 26' wooden powerboat that her Dad built,
> travelling to Desolation Sound every summer, so she is pretty comfortable
> on the water, but has only sailed a few times on dinghies - Laser, Sunfish
> and MacGregor 26. The MacGregor freaks her out because it gives the
> illusion of a big boat with the stability of a dinghy. She's fine in a
> Laser... she even hauled prawn traps from one last summer... :)
>
> Finally, I am deciding between a "starter boat" around $10K, knowing that
> we'll still look for the right boat. I don't want to pay much more than
> $10K for a boat that will only last 1-2 years as the 12% sales tax is then
> just throwing money away. If we find what seems like a good long term boat
> for $25K or so, we'll go for it, but so far, that has been an elusive item.
> Every $25K boat has either been an overpriced $15K boat (like that mint C&C
> 30), or a $35-40K boat that needs work. I'm ok with a boat that needs some
> work, provided I can sail it while doing the work over time (so it needs a
> decent engine, sails and rigging). After almost a year of this search, I no
> longer have the time for a project boat.
>
> So that's why a $10K boat makes sense to me... Is the 29 is that boat? I
> don't know...
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 6:03 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Shawn.take me behind why a 29 for 10K makes sense for you.
>> For my taste.if your wife is uncomfortable sailingyou want to
>> rethink this.
>> Mine has had only miserable experiences in the 30 years of sailing.
>> All of my early boats were too small.
>> I now have probably the best Rob Ball design ever...
>> I bought a 38MKII for 20k 20 years ago...
>> You should think biggerand when your wife finally stops
>> sailing.you end up with a real race machine
>>
>> Just thinking ahead Ron
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: johnr...@aol.com
>> Sent: 2019-04-17 8:31:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?
>>
>> Is this a 29 Mark I or Mark II??
>>
>> I love my Mark II.  Not tender to me as an old dingy sailor.  Yes,
>> nimble, quick, responsive.
>>
>> There is another Mark II at my club with a shorter rudder than mine and I
>> understand he does have more problems with broaching. I have raced mine in
>> 40+gusts and won that race under PHRF.  One broach in 7 years when crew did
>> not take the main sheet with him while hiking in order to be ready to
>> release in conditions that might warrant it.
>>
>> Suddenly went from a north bound boat to a south bound boat. Best broach
>> of my life.  Boat just flipped around and we went on sailing.  No one hurt.
>>
>> John McLaughlin
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

Thanks Shawn, I get it.you're probably in the right ballpark for you planning ahead.I wish you good luck in the search...BUT GET ANYTHING CLOSE SURVEYEDThere's some rough boats out there in your price rangeSent from Xfinity Connect Application-Original Message-From: cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: shawngwri...@gmail.comSent: 2019-04-17 9:31:33 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?Hi Ron,Ok, here's the backstory... We started out looking at 27-30' boats, with the hope of finding a C&C 30-1 based on what I'd read about its stiffness. The first one we found was $25K and although it was in very good condition, we just weren't that impressed, mainly with the interior layout. Gradually I started looking at anything up to about $35K, which has included a lot of boats: Westsail 32, Nicholson 31 & 35 (both very nice boats - should have bought the 35), Alberg 37, Niagara 35, Ericson 29, 30+, 32, 35, Newport 28, 33, C&C 35-2, 36, 37. Of these, the C&C 35-2 and Nicholson 35 have impressed me the most. The Nicholson is probably one of 3-4 on the continent, so I don't expect to find another. The C&C 35-2 seems like a great fit, but I don't expect I'll find another for $25K around here.My wife grew up boating on a 26' wooden powerboat that her Dad built, travelling to Desolation Sound every summer, so she is pretty comfortable on the water, but has only sailed a few times on dinghies - Laser, Sunfish and MacGregor 26. The MacGregor freaks her out because it gives the illusion of a big boat with the stability of a dinghy. She's fine in a Laser... she even hauled prawn traps from one last summer... :)Finally, I am deciding between a "starter boat" around $10K, knowing that we'll still look for the right boat. I don't want to pay much more than $10K for a boat that will only last 1-2 years as the 12% sales tax is then just throwing money away. If we find what seems like a good long term boat for $25K or so, we'll go for it, but so far, that has been an elusive item. Every $25K boat has either been an overpriced $15K boat (like that mint C&C 30), or a $35-40K boat that needs work. I'm ok with a boat that needs some work, provided I can sail it while doing the work over time (so it needs a decent engine, sails and rigging). After almost a year of this search, I no longer have the time for a project boat.So that's why a $10K boat makes sense to me... Is the 29 is that boat? I don't know...On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 6:03 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List  wrote:Shawn.take me behind why a 29 for 10K makes sense for you. For my taste.if your wife is uncomfortable sailingyou want to rethink this.Mine has had only miserable experiences in the 30 years of sailing.All of my early boats were too small.I now have probably the best Rob Ball design ever...I bought a 38MKII for 20k 20 years ago...You should think biggerand when your wife finally stops sailing.you end up with a real race machineJust thinking ahead  RonSent from Xfinity Connect Application-Original Message-From: cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: johnr...@aol.comSent: 2019-04-17 8:31:35 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?Is this a 29 Mark I or Mark II??



I love my Mark II.  Not tender to me as an old dingy sailor.  Yes, nimble, quick, responsive.




There is another Mark II at my club with a shorter rudder than mine and I understand he does have more problems with broaching. I have raced mine in 40+gusts and won that race under PHRF.  One broach in 7 years when crew did not take the main sheet with him while hiking in order to be ready to release in conditions that might warrant it.




Suddenly went from a north bound boat to a south bound boat. Best broach of my life.  Boat just flipped around and we went on sailing.  No one hurt.




John McLaughlin





-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Watson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Mark A. Watson 
Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?





Strangly






I have a C&C 41 - love it


Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes up wind like
  a vacuum cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees


Hull had one small blister at last years haul out. Oh and the
  traditional keel smile.  Great construction and smart above and
  below deck fittings and appointments. 







Not sure what else would be relevant 




  



 

  






Mark Watson 



Trinity - 1977 Newport 41
  



  



  



  



  


 
  
  


  

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Shawn have you seen this boat? 
https://nanaimo.craigslist.org/boa/d/ladysmith-1989-cc-30-mk2-sloop/6865778294.html
 


It’s true the 30 MK I layout is simple and the appointments spartan in the 
early hull numbers like mine.  That’s OK for me, I keep her stripped down and 
only occasionally sleep or cook aboard.

The MK II listed above is more luxurious, and the asking price may reflect 
that.  Perhaps the seller would consider a lower offer.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Apr 17, 2019, at 7:30 PM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ron,
> 
> Ok, here's the backstory... We started out looking at 27-30' boats, with the 
> hope of finding a C&C 30-1 based on what I'd read about its stiffness. The 
> first one we found was $25K and although it was in very good condition, we 
> just weren't that impressed, mainly with the interior layout. Gradually I 
> started looking at anything up to about $35K, which has included a lot of 
> boats: Westsail 32, Nicholson 31 & 35 (both very nice boats - should have 
> bought the 35), Alberg 37, Niagara 35, Ericson 29, 30+, 32, 35, Newport 28, 
> 33, C&C 35-2, 36, 37. Of these, the C&C 35-2 and Nicholson 35 have impressed 
> me the most. The Nicholson is probably one of 3-4 on the continent, so I 
> don't expect to find another. The C&C 35-2 seems like a great fit, but I 
> don't expect I'll find another for $25K around here.
> 
> My wife grew up boating on a 26' wooden powerboat that her Dad built, 
> travelling to Desolation Sound every summer, so she is pretty comfortable on 
> the water, but has only sailed a few times on dinghies - Laser, Sunfish and 
> MacGregor 26. The MacGregor freaks her out because it gives the illusion of a 
> big boat with the stability of a dinghy. She's fine in a Laser... she even 
> hauled prawn traps from one last summer... :)
> 
> Finally, I am deciding between a "starter boat" around $10K, knowing that 
> we'll still look for the right boat. I don't want to pay much more than $10K 
> for a boat that will only last 1-2 years as the 12% sales tax is then just 
> throwing money away. If we find what seems like a good long term boat for 
> $25K or so, we'll go for it, but so far, that has been an elusive item. Every 
> $25K boat has either been an overpriced $15K boat (like that mint C&C 30), or 
> a $35-40K boat that needs work. I'm ok with a boat that needs some work, 
> provided I can sail it while doing the work over time (so it needs a decent 
> engine, sails and rigging). After almost a year of this search, I no longer 
> have the time for a project boat.
> 
> So that's why a $10K boat makes sense to me... Is the 29 is that boat? I 
> don't know...
> 
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 6:03 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Shawn.take me behind why a 29 for 10K makes sense for you. 
> For my taste.if your wife is uncomfortable sailingyou want to rethink 
> this.
> Mine has had only miserable experiences in the 30 years of sailing.
> All of my early boats were too small.
> I now have probably the best Rob Ball design ever...
> I bought a 38MKII for 20k 20 years ago...
> You should think biggerand when your wife finally stops sailing.you 
> end up with a real race machine
> 
> Just thinking ahead Ron
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: johnr...@aol.com 
> Sent: 2019-04-17 8:31:35 PM 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?
> 
> Is this a 29 Mark I or Mark II??
> 
> I love my Mark II.  Not tender to me as an old dingy sailor.  Yes, nimble, 
> quick, responsive.
> 
> There is another Mark II at my club with a shorter rudder than mine and I 
> understand he does have more problems with broaching. I have raced mine in 
> 40+gusts and won that race under PHRF.  One broach in 7 years when crew did 
> not take the main sheet with him while hiking in order to be ready to release 
> in conditions that might warrant it.
> 
> Suddenly went from a north bound boat to a south bound boat. Best broach of 
> my life.  Boat just flipped around and we went on sailing.  No one hurt.
> 
> John McLaughlin
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark A. Watson via CnC-List  >
> To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Mark A. Watson mailto:m...@watsonandson.com>>
> Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 2:32 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?
> 
> Strangly
> 
> I have a C&C 41 - love it
> Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes up wind like a vacuum 
> cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees
> Hull had one small blister at last years haul out. Oh and the traditional 
> keel smile.  Great construction and smart above and below deck fittings and 
> appointm

Stus-List Stainless Keel Boat Washers

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

While looking in the garage of a piece of unused gear to give to another
boater who could use it, I ran across three stainless plates I had made as
replacement for keel boat washers, but which were excess to my needs.

 

The plates are 4” x 3 ½” x ¼”, with a 1” diameter hole in the center.

 

If anyone can use them, they are yours … in exchange for a donation to Stu.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk2 #47

la Belle Aurore  C&C 25 mk1 #225

Washington, NC

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Hi Ron,

Ok, here's the backstory... We started out looking at 27-30' boats, with
the hope of finding a C&C 30-1 based on what I'd read about its stiffness.
The first one we found was $25K and although it was in very good condition,
we just weren't that impressed, mainly with the interior layout. Gradually
I started looking at anything up to about $35K, which has included a lot of
boats: Westsail 32, Nicholson 31 & 35 (both very nice boats - should have
bought the 35), Alberg 37, Niagara 35, Ericson 29, 30+, 32, 35, Newport 28,
33, C&C 35-2, 36, 37. Of these, the C&C 35-2 and Nicholson 35 have
impressed me the most. The Nicholson is probably one of 3-4 on the
continent, so I don't expect to find another. The C&C 35-2 seems like a
great fit, but I don't expect I'll find another for $25K around here.

My wife grew up boating on a 26' wooden powerboat that her Dad built,
travelling to Desolation Sound every summer, so she is pretty comfortable
on the water, but has only sailed a few times on dinghies - Laser, Sunfish
and MacGregor 26. The MacGregor freaks her out because it gives the
illusion of a big boat with the stability of a dinghy. She's fine in a
Laser... she even hauled prawn traps from one last summer... :)

Finally, I am deciding between a "starter boat" around $10K, knowing that
we'll still look for the right boat. I don't want to pay much more than
$10K for a boat that will only last 1-2 years as the 12% sales tax is then
just throwing money away. If we find what seems like a good long term boat
for $25K or so, we'll go for it, but so far, that has been an elusive item.
Every $25K boat has either been an overpriced $15K boat (like that mint C&C
30), or a $35-40K boat that needs work. I'm ok with a boat that needs some
work, provided I can sail it while doing the work over time (so it needs a
decent engine, sails and rigging). After almost a year of this search, I no
longer have the time for a project boat.

So that's why a $10K boat makes sense to me... Is the 29 is that boat? I
don't know...

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 6:03 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Shawn.take me behind why a 29 for 10K makes sense for you.
> For my taste.if your wife is uncomfortable sailingyou want to
> rethink this.
> Mine has had only miserable experiences in the 30 years of sailing.
> All of my early boats were too small.
> I now have probably the best Rob Ball design ever...
> I bought a 38MKII for 20k 20 years ago...
> You should think biggerand when your wife finally stops
> sailing.you end up with a real race machine
>
> Just thinking ahead Ron
>
>
>
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: johnr...@aol.com
> Sent: 2019-04-17 8:31:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?
>
> Is this a 29 Mark I or Mark II??
>
> I love my Mark II.  Not tender to me as an old dingy sailor.  Yes, nimble,
> quick, responsive.
>
> There is another Mark II at my club with a shorter rudder than mine and I
> understand he does have more problems with broaching. I have raced mine in
> 40+gusts and won that race under PHRF.  One broach in 7 years when crew did
> not take the main sheet with him while hiking in order to be ready to
> release in conditions that might warrant it.
>
> Suddenly went from a north bound boat to a south bound boat. Best broach
> of my life.  Boat just flipped around and we went on sailing.  No one hurt.
>
> John McLaughlin
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark A. Watson via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Mark A. Watson 
> Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 2:32 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?
>
> Strangly
>
> I have a C&C 41 - love it
> Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes up wind like a vacuum
> cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees
> Hull had one small blister at last years haul out. Oh and the traditional
> keel smile.  Great construction and smart above and below deck fittings and
> appointments.
>
> Not sure what else would be relevant
>
> Mark Watson
> Trinity - 1977 Newport 41
>
>
>
> On 4/17/2019 9:23 AM, Jeremy Dinsel via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I happen to have a C&C 29 from the exact same year. It is a little tender
> at the dock as it’ll move a bit when it’s boarded, but underway it feels
> fine to me. I’m a new boat owner and this is the first boat I’ve owned. I
> obtained it for a similar price and put a good amount into it to replace
> the standing and running rigging as well as the sails. I have the original
> universal diesel, so if your option has been repowered, that might be a
> great addition.
>
> Under full power (with a 120% Genoa), the boat heels fairly comfortably
> and races forwarded in up to 14 kts. I’d recommend reefing by 14 kts, but
> it is situationally relevant. I have been out in 20 kts under full sail and
> found it aggressive as the boat was able to point up to 15 degrees off the

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

It's a '77, so a Mark I, first year of the 29 according to sailboatdata.com.
The Mark II came out in '83. This particular boat has a longer carbon fiber
rudder, possibly to match the Mark II design.

Not sure of the other differences, or why the 29 seems to be a bit of black
sheep among C&Cs. Is it because of its 1/2ton IOR heritage?

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 5:31 PM John R McLaughlin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Is this a 29 Mark I or Mark II??
>
> I love my Mark II.  Not tender to me as an old dingy sailor.  Yes, nimble,
> quick, responsive.
>
> There is another Mark II at my club with a shorter rudder than mine and I
> understand he does have more problems with broaching. I have raced mine in
> 40+gusts and won that race under PHRF.  One broach in 7 years when crew did
> not take the main sheet with him while hiking in order to be ready to
> release in conditions that might warrant it.
>
> Suddenly went from a north bound boat to a south bound boat. Best broach
> of my life.  Boat just flipped around and we went on sailing.  No one hurt.
>
> John McLaughlin
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark A. Watson via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Mark A. Watson 
> Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 2:32 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?
>
> Strangly
>
> I have a C&C 41 - love it
> Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes up wind like a vacuum
> cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees
> Hull had one small blister at last years haul out. Oh and the traditional
> keel smile.  Great construction and smart above and below deck fittings and
> appointments.
>
> Not sure what else would be relevant
>
> Mark Watson
> Trinity - 1977 Newport 41
>
>
>
> On 4/17/2019 9:23 AM, Jeremy Dinsel via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I happen to have a C&C 29 from the exact same year. It is a little tender
> at the dock as it’ll move a bit when it’s boarded, but underway it feels
> fine to me. I’m a new boat owner and this is the first boat I’ve owned. I
> obtained it for a similar price and put a good amount into it to replace
> the standing and running rigging as well as the sails. I have the original
> universal diesel, so if your option has been repowered, that might be a
> great addition.
>
> Under full power (with a 120% Genoa), the boat heels fairly comfortably
> and races forwarded in up to 14 kts. I’d recommend reefing by 14 kts, but
> it is situationally relevant. I have been out in 20 kts under full sail and
> found it aggressive as the boat was able to point up to 15 degrees off the
> wind but still didn’t dip the toe rail.  I dropped the sails quickly for my
> own comfort as well as my crew’s.
>
> It’s been my opinion that comfort with heeling comes from time and
> experience on boats. Much like someone else mentioned, conditions and
> training even for catamaran appreciators will eventually win over
> relatively new sailors.
>
> There’s little I’d change in my 29’. I’d recommend getting a survey and
> seeing if it’s still the best deal on the market. No matter what you go
> with, keep your crew in mind while helping them to gain the time and
> experience required to become comfortable. Find other friends with more
> experience that your crew knows and respects and give them the helm. I’ve
> found that having my friend Kristin aboard gives me ample time to compare
> my level of comfort vs her’s. She’s far more experienced than I am, and is
> the perfect bell weather.
>
> Jeremy Dinsel
> C&C 29 1977
> Seattle, Wa
>
> iTypo'd expressly for you.
>
> On Apr 16, 2019, at 18:00, Shawn Wright  wrote:
>
> I'm interested in opinions of a '77 C&C 29. There is one named "Tooth &
> Nail" that has been for sale in Vancouver for some time now. The photos
> look good, apparently has a good sail inventory, decent Yanmar engine,
> wheel steering. Apparently a popular local race boat (so it may be beat
> up?)
>
> It doesn't seem likely that we're going to find a 35' this season, so I'm
> looking at smaller, cheaper boats so we can begin sailing while still keep
> an eye out for the right boat. At the moment, the smaller, cheaper boats
> include a very well kept Ericson 29, and this C&C 29, both for around $12K
> CAD.
>
> One reason I overlooked the 29 in the past was based on where it sits on
> the stability diagram - right at the top among the most tender of all
> boats. How serious a concern is this for cruising as keelboat beginners? I
> don't want to scare my wife, who has very little sailing experience, with a
> very tender boat. She gets uncomfortable when sailing on a friend's
> Macgregor 26, which seems to heel over at the slightest gust.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
>
> 

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

Shawn.take me behind why a 29 for 10K makes sense for you. For my taste.if your wife is uncomfortable sailingyou want to rethink this.Mine has had only miserable experiences in the 30 years of sailing.All of my early boats were too small.I now have probably the best Rob Ball design ever...I bought a 38MKII for 20k 20 years ago...You should think biggerand when your wife finally stops sailing.you end up with a real race machineJust thinking ahead  RonSent from Xfinity Connect Application-Original Message-From: cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: johnr...@aol.comSent: 2019-04-17 8:31:35 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?Is this a 29 Mark I or Mark II??



I love my Mark II.  Not tender to me as an old dingy sailor.  Yes, nimble, quick, responsive.




There is another Mark II at my club with a shorter rudder than mine and I understand he does have more problems with broaching. I have raced mine in 40+gusts and won that race under PHRF.  One broach in 7 years when crew did not take the main sheet with him while hiking in order to be ready to release in conditions that might warrant it.




Suddenly went from a north bound boat to a south bound boat. Best broach of my life.  Boat just flipped around and we went on sailing.  No one hurt.




John McLaughlin





-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Watson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Mark A. Watson 
Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?





Strangly






I have a C&C 41 - love it


Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes up wind like
  a vacuum cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees


Hull had one small blister at last years haul out. Oh and the
  traditional keel smile.  Great construction and smart above and
  below deck fittings and appointments. 







Not sure what else would be relevant 




  



 

  






Mark Watson 



Trinity - 1977 Newport 41
  



  



  



  



  


 
  
  


  



  



  



  



  



  




On 4/17/2019 9:23 AM, Jeremy Dinsel via
  CnC-List wrote:



  






  I happen to have a C&C 29 from the exact same year. It is a
  little tender at the dock as it’ll move a bit when it’s boarded,
  but underway it feels fine to me. I’m a new boat owner and this is
  the first boat I’ve owned. I obtained it for a similar price and
  put a good amount into it to replace the standing and running
  rigging as well as the sails. I have the original universal
  diesel, so if your option has been repowered, that might be a
  great addition. 
  

  

  
Under full power (with a 120% Genoa), the boat heels fairly
comfortably and races forwarded in up to 14 kts. I’d recommend
reefing by 14 kts, but it is situationally relevant. I have been
out in 20 kts under full sail and found it aggressive as the
boat was able to point up to 15 degrees off the wind but still
didn’t dip the toe rail.  I dropped the sails quickly for my own
comfort as well as my crew’s. 

  

  

  
It’s been my opinion that comfort with heeling comes from
time and experience on boats. Much like someone else mentioned,
conditions and training even for catamaran appreciators will
eventually win over relatively new sailors. 

  

  

  
There’s little I’d change in my 29’. I’d recommend getting a
survey and seeing if it’s still the best deal on the market. No
matter what you go with, keep your crew in mind while helping
them to gain the time and experience required to become
comfortable. Find other friends with more experience that your
crew knows and respects and give them the helm. I’ve found that
having my friend Kristin aboard gives me ample time to compare
my level of comfort vs her’s. She’s far more experienced than I
am, and is the perfect bell weather. 

  

  

  
Jeremy Dinsel

  
C&C 29 1977

  
Seattle, Wa


iTypo'd expressly for
  you.



  On Apr 16, 2019, at 18:00, Shawn Wright 
  wrote:
  



  


I'm interested in opinions of a '77 C&C
  29. There is one named "Tooth & Nail" that has been
  for sale in Vancouver for some time

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[John R McLaughlin via CnC-List]

Is this a 29 Mark I or Mark II??
I love my Mark II.  Not tender to me as an old dingy sailor.  Yes, nimble, 
quick, responsive.
There is another Mark II at my club with a shorter rudder than mine and I 
understand he does have more problems with broaching. I have raced mine in 
40+gusts and won that race under PHRF.  One broach in 7 years when crew did not 
take the main sheet with him while hiking in order to be ready to release in 
conditions that might warrant it.
Suddenly went from a north bound boat to a south bound boat. Best broach of my 
life.  Boat just flipped around and we went on sailing.  No one hurt.
John McLaughlin


-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Watson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Mark A. Watson 
Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

 Strangly 
  I have a C&C 41 - love it Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes 
up wind like a vacuum cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees Hull had one small 
blister at last years haul out. Oh and the traditional keel smile.  Great 
construction and smart above and below deck fittings and appointments. 
  
  Not sure what else would be relevant 
  
  Mark Watson 
  Trinity - 1977 Newport 41
   
 
 
 On 4/17/2019 9:23 AM, Jeremy Dinsel via CnC-List wrote:
  
 
 I happen to have a C&C 29 from the exact same year. It is a little tender at 
the dock as it’ll move a bit when it’s boarded, but underway it feels fine to 
me. I’m a new boat owner and this is the first boat I’ve owned. I obtained it 
for a similar price and put a good amount into it to replace the standing and 
running rigging as well as the sails. I have the original universal diesel, so 
if your option has been repowered, that might be a great addition.  
  Under full power (with a 120% Genoa), the boat heels fairly comfortably and 
races forwarded in up to 14 kts. I’d recommend reefing by 14 kts, but it is 
situationally relevant. I have been out in 20 kts under full sail and found it 
aggressive as the boat was able to point up to 15 degrees off the wind but 
still didn’t dip the toe rail.  I dropped the sails quickly for my own comfort 
as well as my crew’s.  
  It’s been my opinion that comfort with heeling comes from time and experience 
on boats. Much like someone else mentioned, conditions and training even for 
catamaran appreciators will eventually win over relatively new sailors.  
  There’s little I’d change in my 29’. I’d recommend getting a survey and 
seeing if it’s still the best deal on the market. No matter what you go with, 
keep your crew in mind while helping them to gain the time and experience 
required to become comfortable. Find other friends with more experience that 
your crew knows and respects and give them the helm. I’ve found that having my 
friend Kristin aboard gives me ample time to compare my level of comfort vs 
her’s. She’s far more experienced than I am, and is the perfect bell weather.  
  Jeremy Dinsel C&C 29 1977 Seattle, Wa
 
 iTypo'd expressly for you. 
 On Apr 16, 2019, at 18:00, Shawn Wright  wrote:
 
  
  I'm interested in opinions of a '77 C&C 29. There is one named "Tooth & Nail" 
that has been for sale in Vancouver for some time now. The photos look good, 
apparently has a good sail inventory, decent Yanmar engine, wheel steering. 
Apparently a popular local race boat (so it may be beat up?) 
  It doesn't seem likely that we're going to find a 35' this season, so I'm 
looking at smaller, cheaper boats so we can begin sailing while still keep an 
eye out for the right boat. At the moment, the smaller, cheaper boats include a 
very well kept Ericson 29, and this C&C 29, both for around $12K CAD. 
  One reason I overlooked the 29 in the past was based on where it sits on the 
stability diagram - right at the top among the most tender of all boats. How 
serious a concern is this for cruising as keelboat beginners? I don't want to 
scare my wife, who has very little sailing experience, with a very tender boat. 
She gets uncomfortable when sailing on a friend's Macgregor 26, which seems to 
heel over at the slightest gust.  
  -- 
  Shawn Wright shawngwri...@gmail.com 
  
  
___Thanks everyone for supporting 
this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. 
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Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks everyone for the great replies, they are very helpful.

I spoke to the broker and found out a bit more:
-one owner boat, was regularly raced for many years, and well maintained.
Estate sale
-twin headstays (so no furler), tapered mast, taller carbon fiber rudder
-diesel stove/furnace looks a bit ugly and not ideal for cooking
-wheel steering

We will try to take a trip over to see her soon. The broker also has a
Pearson 365 coming up, but after looking at the specs, it seems like this
boat would be a slug in light air, similar to a Cooper with long shallow
keel, and nothing like a C&C.

As for training, we are both taking a 7 day ISPA Day Crew/Skipper's course
from Comox to Desolation Sound next month (on a Formosa 43), which should
help give my wife some confidence in sailing, and also update my rusty
knowledge. We're looking forward to that, and also to returning to the area
in our own boat soon after! Just need to decide on the boat.

At this stage, it looks like it's between this C&C 29 and an Ericson 29 for
a smaller, cheaper ready to sail boat.

For a longer term boat, we have:
'76 Viking 34 for $22K
'81 C&C 32 (centreboard model) for $25K. I suspect this is not selling as
centreboard models are not common here. Not sure how problematic they are...
'70 35-1 just listed today for $32K... hmmm...
'89 Mirage 32 for $29K with 5 year old Yanmar



On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 11:32 AM Mark A. Watson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Strangly
>
>
> I have a C&C 41 - love it
>
> Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes up wind like a vacuum
> cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees
>
> Hull had one small blister at last years haul out. Oh and the traditional
> keel smile.  Great construction and smart above and below deck fittings and
> appointments.
>
>
> Not sure what else would be relevant
>
>
> Mark Watson
> Trinity - 1977 Newport 41
>
>
>
> On 4/17/2019 9:23 AM, Jeremy Dinsel via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I happen to have a C&C 29 from the exact same year. It is a little tender
> at the dock as it’ll move a bit when it’s boarded, but underway it feels
> fine to me. I’m a new boat owner and this is the first boat I’ve owned. I
> obtained it for a similar price and put a good amount into it to replace
> the standing and running rigging as well as the sails. I have the original
> universal diesel, so if your option has been repowered, that might be a
> great addition.
>
> Under full power (with a 120% Genoa), the boat heels fairly comfortably
> and races forwarded in up to 14 kts. I’d recommend reefing by 14 kts, but
> it is situationally relevant. I have been out in 20 kts under full sail and
> found it aggressive as the boat was able to point up to 15 degrees off the
> wind but still didn’t dip the toe rail.  I dropped the sails quickly for my
> own comfort as well as my crew’s.
>
> It’s been my opinion that comfort with heeling comes from time and
> experience on boats. Much like someone else mentioned, conditions and
> training even for catamaran appreciators will eventually win over
> relatively new sailors.
>
> There’s little I’d change in my 29’. I’d recommend getting a survey and
> seeing if it’s still the best deal on the market. No matter what you go
> with, keep your crew in mind while helping them to gain the time and
> experience required to become comfortable. Find other friends with more
> experience that your crew knows and respects and give them the helm. I’ve
> found that having my friend Kristin aboard gives me ample time to compare
> my level of comfort vs her’s. She’s far more experienced than I am, and is
> the perfect bell weather.
>
> Jeremy Dinsel
> C&C 29 1977
> Seattle, Wa
>
> iTypo'd expressly for you.
>
> On Apr 16, 2019, at 18:00, Shawn Wright  wrote:
>
> I'm interested in opinions of a '77 C&C 29. There is one named "Tooth &
> Nail" that has been for sale in Vancouver for some time now. The photos
> look good, apparently has a good sail inventory, decent Yanmar engine,
> wheel steering. Apparently a popular local race boat (so it may be beat
> up?)
>
> It doesn't seem likely that we're going to find a 35' this season, so I'm
> looking at smaller, cheaper boats so we can begin sailing while still keep
> an eye out for the right boat. At the moment, the smaller, cheaper boats
> include a very well kept Ericson 29, and this C&C 29, both for around $12K
> CAD.
>
> One reason I overlooked the 29 in the past was based on where it sits on
> the stability diagram - right at the top among the most tender of all
> boats. How serious a concern is this for cruising as keelboat beginners? I
> don't want to scare my wife, who has very little sailing experience, with a
> very tender boat. She gets uncomfortable when sailing on a friend's
> Macgregor 26, which seems to heel over at the slightest gust.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each a

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[Mark A. Watson via CnC-List]

Strangly


I have a C&C 41 - love it

Hate going in reverse its always a crap shoot. Goes up wind like a 
vacuum cleaner. Best at 25 - 30 degrees


Hull had one small blister at last years haul out. Oh and the 
traditional keel smile.  Great construction and smart above and below 
deck fittings and appointments.



Not sure what else would be relevant


Mark Watson
Trinity - 1977 Newport 41



On 4/17/2019 9:23 AM, Jeremy Dinsel via CnC-List wrote:
I happen to have a C&C 29 from the exact same year. It is a little 
tender at the dock as it’ll move a bit when it’s boarded, but underway 
it feels fine to me. I’m a new boat owner and this is the first boat 
I’ve owned. I obtained it for a similar price and put a good amount 
into it to replace the standing and running rigging as well as the 
sails. I have the original universal diesel, so if your option has 
been repowered, that might be a great addition.


Under full power (with a 120% Genoa), the boat heels fairly 
comfortably and races forwarded in up to 14 kts. I’d recommend reefing 
by 14 kts, but it is situationally relevant. I have been out in 20 kts 
under full sail and found it aggressive as the boat was able to point 
up to 15 degrees off the wind but still didn’t dip the toe rail.  I 
dropped the sails quickly for my own comfort as well as my crew’s.


It’s been my opinion that comfort with heeling comes from time and 
experience on boats. Much like someone else mentioned, conditions and 
training even for catamaran appreciators will eventually win over 
relatively new sailors.


There’s little I’d change in my 29’. I’d recommend getting a survey 
and seeing if it’s still the best deal on the market. No matter what 
you go with, keep your crew in mind while helping them to gain the 
time and experience required to become comfortable. Find other friends 
with more experience that your crew knows and respects and give them 
the helm. I’ve found that having my friend Kristin aboard gives me 
ample time to compare my level of comfort vs her’s. She’s far more 
experienced than I am, and is the perfect bell weather.


Jeremy Dinsel
C&C 29 1977
Seattle, Wa

iTypo'd expressly for you.

On Apr 16, 2019, at 18:00, Shawn Wright > wrote:


I'm interested in opinions of a '77 C&C 29. There is one named "Tooth 
& Nail" that has been for sale in Vancouver for some time now. The 
photos look good, apparently has a good sail inventory, decent Yanmar 
engine, wheel steering. Apparently a popular local race boat (so it 
may be beat up?)


It doesn't seem likely that we're going to find a 35' this season, so 
I'm looking at smaller, cheaper boats so we can begin sailing while 
still keep an eye out for the right boat. At the moment, the smaller, 
cheaper boats include a very well kept Ericson 29, and this C&C 29, 
both for around $12K CAD.


One reason I overlooked the 29 in the past was based on where it sits 
on the stability diagram - right at the top among the most tender of 
all boats. How serious a concern is this for cruising as keelboat 
beginners? I don't want to scare my wife, who has very little sailing 
experience, with a very tender boat. She gets uncomfortable when 
sailing on a friend's Macgregor 26, which seems to heel over at the 
slightest gust.


--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com 


___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray




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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on '77 C&C 29?

[Jeremy Dinsel via CnC-List]

I happen to have a C&C 29 from the exact same year. It is a little tender at 
the dock as it’ll move a bit when it’s boarded, but underway it feels fine to 
me. I’m a new boat owner and this is the first boat I’ve owned. I obtained it 
for a similar price and put a good amount into it to replace the standing and 
running rigging as well as the sails. I have the original universal diesel, so 
if your option has been repowered, that might be a great addition. 

Under full power (with a 120% Genoa), the boat heels fairly comfortably and 
races forwarded in up to 14 kts. I’d recommend reefing by 14 kts, but it is 
situationally relevant. I have been out in 20 kts under full sail and found it 
aggressive as the boat was able to point up to 15 degrees off the wind but 
still didn’t dip the toe rail.  I dropped the sails quickly for my own comfort 
as well as my crew’s. 

It’s been my opinion that comfort with heeling comes from time and experience 
on boats. Much like someone else mentioned, conditions and training even for 
catamaran appreciators will eventually win over relatively new sailors. 

There’s little I’d change in my 29’. I’d recommend getting a survey and seeing 
if it’s still the best deal on the market. No matter what you go with, keep 
your crew in mind while helping them to gain the time and experience required 
to become comfortable. Find other friends with more experience that your crew 
knows and respects and give them the helm. I’ve found that having my friend 
Kristin aboard gives me ample time to compare my level of comfort vs her’s. 
She’s far more experienced than I am, and is the perfect bell weather. 

Jeremy Dinsel
C&C 29 1977
Seattle, Wa

iTypo'd expressly for you.

> On Apr 16, 2019, at 18:00, Shawn Wright  wrote:
> 
> I'm interested in opinions of a '77 C&C 29. There is one named "Tooth & Nail" 
> that has been for sale in Vancouver for some time now. The photos look good, 
> apparently has a good sail inventory, decent Yanmar engine, wheel steering. 
> Apparently a popular local race boat (so it may be beat up?)
> 
> It doesn't seem likely that we're going to find a 35' this season, so I'm 
> looking at smaller, cheaper boats so we can begin sailing while still keep an 
> eye out for the right boat. At the moment, the smaller, cheaper boats include 
> a very well kept Ericson 29, and this C&C 29, both for around $12K CAD.
> 
> One reason I overlooked the 29 in the past was based on where it sits on the 
> stability diagram - right at the top among the most tender of all boats. How 
> serious a concern is this for cruising as keelboat beginners? I don't want to 
> scare my wife, who has very little sailing experience, with a very tender 
> boat. She gets uncomfortable when sailing on a friend's Macgregor 26, which 
> seems to heel over at the slightest gust.
> 
> -- 
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Marine Surveyor (NYC, Westchester, SW Connecticut Area) (Edd Schillay)

[Thomas Delaney via CnC-List]

Hi Edd,

Tom Delco  / (914) 421-0921  Eastern Marine
Surveyors in White Plains. He was very thorough when going over Snow Goose
with me.

Best,
Tom

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:46 AM  wrote:

> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Edd Schillay 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 09:37:31 -0400
> Subject: Stus-List Marine Surveyor (NYC, Westchester, SW Connecticut Area)
> Listers,
>
> Can anyone recommend a good, but inexpensive, marine surveyor in the New
York / Lower Connecticut area?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>
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Re: Stus-List Marine Surveyor (NYC, Westchester, SW Connecticut Area)

[David Morrison via CnC-List]

Also check out Charles Gruetzner - 845-216-0497.  He just surveyed a C&C 40 on the Hudson around Croton area.


 Original Message 
Subject: Stus-List Marine Surveyor (NYC, Westchester, SW Connecticut
Area)
From: Edd Schillay 
Date: Wed, April 17, 2019 9:37 am
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Listers,Can anyone recommend a good, but inexpensive, marine surveyor in the New York / Lower Connecticut area?  All the best,EddEdd M. SchillayCaptain of the Starship EnterpriseC&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-BCity Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log   



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Re: Stus-List Marine Surveyor (NYC, Westchester, SW Connecticut Area)

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Depends on what you want.

A fair assessment of a 30 year old boat at a low price?  Tony Simms -
aso...@aol.com

A nit picky, long windedsurvey, at twice the price and could make a new
boat look like crap?  Dave McClay - dmcc...@optonline.net

Remember most surveys don't touch or barely touch the rigging or engine.
If the owner isn't available or is unwilling then you will have challenges
taking boat for a sea trial.

Good luck.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 6:38 AM Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Listers,
>
> Can anyone recommend a good, but inexpensive, marine surveyor in the New
> York / Lower Connecticut area?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Marine Surveyor (NYC, Westchester, SW Connecticut Area)

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Listers,

Can anyone recommend a good, but inexpensive, marine surveyor in the New York / 
Lower Connecticut area? 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 








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cnc-list@cnc-list.com

[robert via CnC-List]

Marek,

As I stated earlier, the trucker would only bring my boat across the 
border (Windsor, Ont.) if I had hired a customs or 'border 
broker'the trucker put me in touch with him, he was located in St. 
Stephen's, New BrunswickI faxed him all the required paper work (he 
advised me what he needed)the trucker arrived/crossed at the border 
at around 3 a.m..he said the customs officers did not climb aboard 
the boat and ask to search ithe was cleared to go in less than 10 
minutes.   I think part of the reason for this expediency (not searching 
the boat) is that the customs officers were familiar with the 
truckerhe has made that crossing with boats many times.


After the boat arrived here in Halifax, the border broker e-mailed the 
bill for the taxes he paid on my behalf and his fee of $130that was 
in March 2006.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.

On 2019-04-16 11:57 p.m., Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:

Rob,

Your broker (customs broker) was cheap (mine was twice that much). But 
regardless it was worth it.

Marek




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