Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[schiller via CnC-List]

I don't mean to be a units Nazi, but I really don't believe you were 
working in kpsi.  I can get behind your numbers at 500 psi, 1 kpsi and 
1.5 kpsi.  Though I do understand what you were conveying, just the 
engineer in me.


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
Whitehall, Mi
BSME, MTU 1977

On 6/5/2016 4:01 PM, Ainslie via CnC-List wrote:


I recently did the procedure Alan describes on my 35-3, using the main 
halyard and a six-pack for weight. With the boom slightly off to 
starboard, I used tape as markers on the boom for each of my 
‘soundings’. I started with no tension on the hydraulic backstay, and 
progressed to 500 kpsi, 1000, and 1500 kpsi. Each of those increments 
moved the masthead aft 2 to 3 inches. From the no-tension position to 
1500 kpsi, my beer-bob weight moved aft a total of 10 inches. I didn’t 
notice a difference in the beer-bob with the babystay tensioned or not 
(which makes sense because the babystay won’t affect the masthead), 
but it was easy to see the bend in the mast. If you stand at the mast 
with any amount of tension on the backstay, and you flex the babystay 
by hand, you’ll see how the mast flexes. Not hard to see how this is 
an important control in sail trim.


Jason Ainslie, Spirit

C 35 Mk III

Port of Bayfield Ontario



*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List

*Sent:* June-04-16 2:35 PM
*To:* cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* ALAN BERGEN
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

The babystay doesn't go slack.  The whole mast moves back, but more at 
the top than at the middle.  If you want to see the effect of 
tightening the backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast 
from the side while the backstay is not tensioned too tight.  Then run 
a weighted line (or even your main halyard if the main is down) from 
the top of the mast to the boom.  When you tension the backstay, the 
top of the mast moves back; the middle of the mast moves back (less 
than at the top); the weighted line will move aft along the boom; the 
forestay will be straighter and you'll see the bend of the mast when 
sighting from the side from the boom to the top of the mast.


Alan Bergen

35 Mk III Thirsty

Rose City YC

Portland, OR

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not 
completely.  As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, 
bending and rotating from the deck pivot point.  As it rotates 
(pivots) backward it tightens the forestay.  That's about all I get 
with my tree trunk of a mast; no bending, but more than an inch back 
and down.  The thinner sections with multiple spreaders 
and/or babystays will get more bending.  Both motions move the tip of 
the mast back and down since the forestay is mostly fixed (it does 
lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and more tension 
takes some droop out).  Since systems seek an equilibrium which 
reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the 
bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium.


Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone.  And 
tuning them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at 
midnight!  Those with multiple spreaders are the devils own design.


Ron

Wild Cheri

C 30-1

STL



*From:*Sam Salter via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

*To:* CNC-LIST <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
*Cc:* Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com <mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - 
explain what I'm missing:


Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. 
Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the 
forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put.


Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or at least fixes it in 
space, fore and aft.


When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the 
middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?


Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.

Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???

sam :-)

C 26 Liquorice

GhostLake Alberta


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Contributions are greatly appreciated!




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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Lorne Serpa via CnC-List]

With 10 inches,  wouldn't that be very effective for moving the draft of
the main forward as well as tightening the luff of the jib?
On Jun 5, 2016 2:02 PM, "Ainslie via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> I recently did the procedure Alan describes on my 35-3, using the main
> halyard and a six-pack for weight. With the boom slightly off to starboard,
> I used tape as markers on the boom for each of my ‘soundings’. I started
> with no tension on the hydraulic backstay, and progressed to 500 kpsi,
> 1000, and 1500 kpsi. Each of those increments moved the masthead aft 2 to 3
> inches. From the no-tension position to 1500 kpsi, my beer-bob weight moved
> aft a total of 10 inches. I didn’t notice a difference in the beer-bob with
> the babystay tensioned or not (which makes sense because the babystay won’t
> affect the masthead), but it was easy to see the bend in the mast. If you
> stand at the mast with any amount of tension on the backstay, and you flex
> the babystay by hand, you’ll see how the mast flexes. Not hard to see how
> this is an important control in sail trim.
>
>
>
> Jason Ainslie, Spirit
>
> C 35 Mk III
>
> Port of Bayfield Ontario
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *ALAN
> BERGEN via CnC-List
> *Sent:* June-04-16 2:35 PM
> *To:* cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* ALAN BERGEN
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
>
>
>
> The babystay doesn't go slack.  The whole mast moves back, but more at the
> top than at the middle.  If you want to see the effect of tightening the
> backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast from the side while
> the backstay is not tensioned too tight.  Then run a weighted line (or even
> your main halyard if the main is down) from the top of the mast to the
> boom.  When you tension the backstay, the top of the mast moves back; the
> middle of the mast moves back (less than at the top); the weighted line
> will move aft along the boom; the forestay will be straighter and you'll
> see the bend of the mast when sighting from the side from the boom to the
> top of the mast.
>
> Alan Bergen
>
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
>
> Rose City YC
>
> Portland, OR
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely.
> As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and
> rotating from the deck pivot point.  As it rotates (pivots) backward it
> tightens the forestay.  That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a
> mast; no bending, but more than an inch back and down.  The thinner
> sections with multiple spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending.
> Both motions move the tip of the mast back and down since the forestay is
> mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and
> more tension takes some droop out).  Since systems seek an equilibrium
> which reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the
> bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium.
>
> Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone.  And tuning
> them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight!  Those
> with multiple spreaders are the devils own design.
>
> Ron
>
> Wild Cheri
>
> C 30-1
>
> STL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Sam Salter via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *To:* CNC-LIST <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
>
>
>
> Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain
> what I'm missing:
>
>
>
> Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay.
> Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the
> forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put.
>
> Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or at least fixes it in
> space, fore and aft.
>
> When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the
> middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?
>
> Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.
>
> Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???
>
>
>
> sam :-)
>
> C 26 Liquorice
>
> Ghost Lake Alberta
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our

Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Ainslie via CnC-List]

I recently did the procedure Alan describes on my 35-3, using the main
halyard and a six-pack for weight. With the boom slightly off to starboard,
I used tape as markers on the boom for each of my ‘soundings’. I started
with no tension on the hydraulic backstay, and progressed to 500 kpsi, 1000,
and 1500 kpsi. Each of those increments moved the masthead aft 2 to 3
inches. From the no-tension position to 1500 kpsi, my beer-bob weight moved
aft a total of 10 inches. I didn’t notice a difference in the beer-bob with
the babystay tensioned or not (which makes sense because the babystay won’t
affect the masthead), but it was easy to see the bend in the mast. If you
stand at the mast with any amount of tension on the backstay, and you flex
the babystay by hand, you’ll see how the mast flexes. Not hard to see how
this is an important control in sail trim.

 

Jason Ainslie, Spirit

C 35 Mk III

Port of Bayfield Ontario

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of ALAN
BERGEN via CnC-List
Sent: June-04-16 2:35 PM
To: cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
Cc: ALAN BERGEN
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

 

The babystay doesn't go slack.  The whole mast moves back, but more at the
top than at the middle.  If you want to see the effect of tightening the
backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast from the side while
the backstay is not tensioned too tight.  Then run a weighted line (or even
your main halyard if the main is down) from the top of the mast to the boom.
When you tension the backstay, the top of the mast moves back; the middle of
the mast moves back (less than at the top); the weighted line will move aft
along the boom; the forestay will be straighter and you'll see the bend of
the mast when sighting from the side from the boom to the top of the mast.

Alan Bergen

35 Mk III Thirsty

Rose City YC

Portland, OR

 

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely.  As
you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and rotating
from the deck pivot point.  As it rotates (pivots) backward it tightens the
forestay.  That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a mast; no bending,
but more than an inch back and down.  The thinner sections with multiple
spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending.  Both motions move the tip
of the mast back and down since the forestay is mostly fixed (it does
lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and more tension takes some
droop out).  Since systems seek an equilibrium which reduces overall
tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the bending, but will assist
the bending motion until equilibrium.

Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone.  And tuning
them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight!  Those
with multiple spreaders are the devils own design.

Ron

Wild Cheri

C 30-1

STL

 

 

 

  _  

From: Sam Salter via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: CNC-LIST <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

 

Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain
what I'm missing:

 

Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure,
it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but
mostly it's going to stay put.

Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or at least fixes it in space,
fore and aft.

When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the
middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?

Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.

Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???

 

sam :-)

C 26 Liquorice 

Ghost Lake Alberta 

 

 


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions
are greatly appreciated!

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

The babystay doesn't go slack.  The whole mast moves back, but more at the
top than at the middle.  If you want to see the effect of tightening the
backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast from the side while
the backstay is not tensioned too tight.  Then run a weighted line (or even
your main halyard if the main is down) from the top of the mast to the
boom.  When you tension the backstay, the top of the mast moves back; the
middle of the mast moves back (less than at the top); the weighted line
will move aft along the boom; the forestay will be straighter and you'll
see the bend of the mast when sighting from the side from the boom to the
top of the mast.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely.
> As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and
> rotating from the deck pivot point.  As it rotates (pivots) backward it
> tightens the forestay.  That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a
> mast; no bending, but more than an inch back and down.  The thinner
> sections with multiple spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending.
> Both motions move the tip of the mast back and down since the forestay is
> mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and
> more tension takes some droop out).  Since systems seek an equilibrium
> which reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the
> bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium.
> Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone.  And tuning
> them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight!  Those
> with multiple spreaders are the devils own design.
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C 30-1
> STL
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Sam Salter via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *To:* CNC-LIST <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
>
> Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain
> what I'm missing:
>
> Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay.
> Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the
> forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put.
> Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or at least fixes it in
> space, fore and aft.
> When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the
> middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?
> Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.
> Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???
>
> sam :-)
> C 26 Liquorice
> Ghost Lake Alberta
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely.  As you 
decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and rotating from 
the deck pivot point.  As it rotates (pivots) backward it tightens the 
forestay.  That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a mast; no bending, but 
more than an inch back and down.  The thinner sections with multiple spreaders 
and/or babystays will get more bending.  Both motions move the tip of the mast 
back and down since the forestay is mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly 
since it's a bit of a catenary and more tension takes some droop out).  Since 
systems seek an equilibrium which reduces overall tension, the babystay will 
loosen slightly with the bending, but will assist the bending motion until 
equilibrium.Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone.  And 
tuning them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight!  
Those with multiple spreaders are the devils own design.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL



  From: Sam Salter via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: CNC-LIST <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
   
 Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what 
I'm missing:
Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it 
will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but 
mostly it's going to stay put.Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or 
at least fixes it in space, fore and aft.When backstay is tensioned won't the 
top move mostly down and push the middle of the mast forward, slackening the 
baby stay?Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.Do you guys 
see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? 
  sam :-)C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta 
 
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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
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greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Jake, Sam,

I saw a substantial increase in mast bend when using the baby stay in
addition to the backstay over just the backstay on my prior 35-3.  My sails
were designed for that full mast bend, so worth checking out at the dock.

Regards,

Tim
ex-Mojito

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:33 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Sam,
>
>
>
> I usually tension the backstay first and have never noticed a problem with
> slack in the babystay.  We don’t use the baby stay much, as the winds here
> tend to be light.  The babystay doesn’t really pull at an effective angle
> to generate much mast bend either.  It does stabilize the lower section of
> the mast though.  I usually can’t see the babystay from the helm, but the
> effect on the mast (as far as being stable) is noticeable.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
> *Jake Brodersen*
>
> *C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”*
>
> *Hampton VA*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam
> Salter via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 22:51
> *To:* CNC-LIST <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
>
>
>
> Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain
> what I'm missing:
>
>
>
> Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay.
> Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the
> forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put.
>
> Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or at least fixes it in
> space, fore and aft.
>
> When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the
> middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?
>
> Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.
>
> Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???
>
>
>
> sam :-)
>
> C 26 Liquorice
>
> Ghost Lake Alberta
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Sam,

 

I usually tension the backstay first and have never noticed a problem with 
slack in the babystay.  We don’t use the baby stay much, as the winds here tend 
to be light.  The babystay doesn’t really pull at an effective angle to 
generate much mast bend either.  It does stabilize the lower section of the 
mast though.  I usually can’t see the babystay from the helm, but the effect on 
the mast (as far as being stable) is noticeable.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Sam Salter 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 22:51
To: CNC-LIST <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

 

Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what 
I'm missing:

 

Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it 
will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but 
mostly it's going to stay put.

Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or at least fixes it in space, 
fore and aft.

When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the middle 
of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?

Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.

Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???

 

sam :-)

C 26 Liquorice 

Ghost Lake Alberta 

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Sam Salter via CnC-List]

  Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what I'm missing:Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put.Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast‎ or at least fixes it in space, fore and aft.When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?Tensioning the forestay‎ and taking draft out of the main.Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???sam :-)C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta From: allen via CnC-ListSent: Friday, June 3, 2016 7:53 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: allenSubject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?






Jake's pretty much right on.  You should have a 
baby stay that will secure the mid point of the mast in space allowing backstay 
adjuster to bend the mast aft and flatten the main. 
Primarily you're looking to increase forestay 
tension.
 
Allen Miles
S/v Septima 30-2
Hampton, VA



From: Jake Brodersen via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 9:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jake Brodersen 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?


Your adjustable 
backstay is used to control forestay tension.  You probably won’t get a lot 
of mast bend, but as I recall the 30-2 had a skinny mast.  It may flatten 
your main a bit too.
 
Jake
 
Jake 
Brodersen
C 
35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”
Hampton 
VA
 
 
 
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa via 
CnC-ListSent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 21:48To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: 
Lorne Serpa <lorne.se...@gmail.com>Subject: 
Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
 



I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable 
back stay.  However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say 
with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front 
stays are attached at the top.
How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the 
fore stay is attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for 
me...don't know all the lingo yet.
Thanks.



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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[allen via CnC-List]

Jake's pretty much right on.  You should have a baby stay that will secure the 
mid point of the mast in space allowing backstay adjuster to bend the mast aft 
and flatten the main. 
Primarily you're looking to increase forestay tension.

Allen Miles
S/v Septima 30-2
Hampton, VA


From: Jake Brodersen via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 9:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jake Brodersen 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?


Your adjustable backstay is used to control forestay tension.  You probably 
won’t get a lot of mast bend, but as I recall the 30-2 had a skinny mast.  It 
may flatten your main a bit too.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 21:48
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Lorne Serpa <lorne.se...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

 

I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.  However, I 
have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. 
fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached 
at the top.

How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is 
attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the 
lingo yet.

Thanks.






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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Your adjustable backstay is used to control forestay tension.  You probably 
won’t get a lot of mast bend, but as I recall the 30-2 had a skinny mast.  It 
may flatten your main a bit too.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 21:48
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Lorne Serpa <lorne.se...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

 

I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.  However, I 
have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. 
fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached 
at the top.

How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is 
attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the 
lingo yet.

Thanks.

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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

Talk to other 30mkII about the specifics of your mast Lorne. The 34+/36xl
has very racy-flexible mast from what I've seen and a significantly taller
rig. (love those 34+/36's!). To get the mast on my 30mkII to bend 6" would
be on the top end of loads for the mast section and height that we have in
my experience. Other mkII owners may have a different experience.

KD

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:38 AM Bmue via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi Lorne,
> I found this quite useful...you get the lingo and the overall concepts
> along with good drawings.
>
> http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf
>
> Have fun...
> Bettina
> > On Jun 1, 2016, at 19:47, Lorne Serpa via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.
> However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full
> rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays
> are attached at the top.
> > How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay
> is attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know
> all the lingo yet.
> > Thanks.
> > ___
> >
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Bmue via CnC-List]

Hi Lorne,
I found this quite useful...you get the lingo and the overall concepts along 
with good drawings.

http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf

Have fun...
Bettina
> On Jun 1, 2016, at 19:47, Lorne Serpa via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.  However, I 
> have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. 
> fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are 
> attached at the top.
> How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is 
> attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the 
> lingo yet.
> Thanks.
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Francois

You are correct about the 6 inches for masthead.  This is about the same on our 
Frers 33.  It seems very odd when compared with the backstay adjustment on a 
fractional rig like our former J27 or the C 115 we raced.  On the 27 backstay 
pullt the top of mast aft in feet not inches.  It was very noticeable.

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 10:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jean-Francois J Rivard
Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?


The Dutch guy on the Youtube video is full of crap.

It works the exact same way with the masthead rig.  Think about pulling the 
string back on a bow (Bow and arrows) it has the exact same effect. It moves 
the top down and back / bows the mast in middle (Your mast has flexibility 
built into it for that reason) thus flattening the main and tightening the 
forestay  / flattening the entry on the genoa as well.   When I crank on my 
back stay the mast head bends down / back about 6 inches, you can see it if you 
sight it as someone cranks on the backstay.


Francois Rivard
1990 34+  "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA




I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.  However, I
have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs.
fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are
attached at the top.
How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is
attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all
the lingo yet.
Thanks.
Regards











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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[David Platt via CnC-List]

Do you have a baby stay?

On 2016-06-02 09:48 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List wrote:


The Dutch guy on the Youtube video is full of crap.

It works the exact same way with the masthead rig.  Think about 
pulling the string back on a bow (Bow and arrows) it has the exact 
same effect. It moves the top down and back / bows the mast in middle 
(Your mast has flexibility built into it for that reason) thus 
flattening the main and tightening the forestay  / flattening the 
entry on the genoa as well.   When I crank on my back stay the mast 
head bends down / back about 6 inches, you can see it if you sight it 
as someone cranks on the backstay.



Francois Rivard
1990 34+  "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA




I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. 
 However, I

have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs.
fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are
attached at the top.
How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is
attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all
the lingo yet.
Thanks.
Regards






















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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


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Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

The Dutch guy on the Youtube video is full of crap. 

It works the exact same way with the masthead rig.  Think about pulling 
the string back on a bow (Bow and arrows) it has the exact same effect. It 
moves the top down and back / bows the mast in middle (Your mast has 
flexibility built into it for that reason) thus flattening the main and 
tightening the forestay  / flattening the entry on the genoa as well. When 
I crank on my back stay the mast head bends down / back about 6 inches, 
you can see it if you sight it as someone cranks on the backstay.


Francois Rivard
1990 34+  "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA




I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.  However, 
I
have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs.
fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are
attached at the top.
How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is
attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all
the lingo yet.
Thanks.
Regards



















 


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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Lorne

Mostly the backstay on a masthead rig tensions or eases tension on the 
forestay.  This affects jib shape mostly but still does help with mast bend a 
bit for the main as well

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 10:48 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Lorne Serpa
Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.  However, I 
have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. 
fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached 
at the top.
How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is 
attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the 
lingo yet.
Thanks.
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Lorne,

You have a "mast head rig". Full rig is a term 
better suited for bigger ships. Be thankful for 
the adjustable backstay. It's nice to have.


Downwind work = tension off
Upwind work = tension on, more wind = more tension
It's that simple. The subtleties come with how 
much tension to apply. At this stage, apply more 
tension when sailing upwind to make the boat heel less (more comfortable).


The function of an applied adjustable backstay on 
a mast head rig boat is to reduce jibstay sag. 
This moves the jib draft forward and you get less 
heeling forces (comparatively more forward 
force). In light winds and reaches you need to 
reduce backstay tension to move the jib draft aft.


The function of a mainsail cunnigham and babystay 
is to move the mainsail draft forward. These 
controls are used in conjunction with the backstay adjustment.


Halyard loading is important too. Watch for creases or wrinkles in the luff.

Do not talk to fractional rig people, they are 
evil and not to be trusted. :) 


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 06:47 PM 01/06/2016, you wrote:
I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an 
adjustable back stay.  However, I have watched 
a couple sailing videos and they say with a full 
rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted 
because the back and front stays are attached at the top.
How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back 
stay if the fore stay is attached at the same 
point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet.

Thanks.
___

This list is supported by the generous donations 
of our members. If you like what we do, please 
help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Stus-List Adjustable backstay?

[Lorne Serpa via CnC-List]

I'm new to sailing.  My C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay.  However, I
have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs.
fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are
attached at the top.
How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is
attached at the same point?  Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all
the lingo yet.
Thanks.
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!