Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
I don't mean to be a units Nazi, but I really don't believe you were working in kpsi. I can get behind your numbers at 500 psi, 1 kpsi and 1.5 kpsi. Though I do understand what you were conveying, just the engineer in me. Neil Schiller 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7 (C&C 35, Mark I) "Corsair" Whitehall, Mi BSME, MTU 1977 On 6/5/2016 4:01 PM, Ainslie via CnC-List wrote: I recently did the procedure Alan describes on my 35-3, using the main halyard and a six-pack for weight. With the boom slightly off to starboard, I used tape as markers on the boom for each of my ‘soundings’. I started with no tension on the hydraulic backstay, and progressed to 500 kpsi, 1000, and 1500 kpsi. Each of those increments moved the masthead aft 2 to 3 inches. From the no-tension position to 1500 kpsi, my beer-bob weight moved aft a total of 10 inches. I didn’t notice a difference in the beer-bob with the babystay tensioned or not (which makes sense because the babystay won’t affect the masthead), but it was easy to see the bend in the mast. If you stand at the mast with any amount of tension on the backstay, and you flex the babystay by hand, you’ll see how the mast flexes. Not hard to see how this is an important control in sail trim. Jason Ainslie, Spirit C&C 35 Mk III Port of Bayfield Ontario *From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List *Sent:* June-04-16 2:35 PM *To:* cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com *Cc:* ALAN BERGEN *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? The babystay doesn't go slack. The whole mast moves back, but more at the top than at the middle. If you want to see the effect of tightening the backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast from the side while the backstay is not tensioned too tight. Then run a weighted line (or even your main halyard if the main is down) from the top of the mast to the boom. When you tension the backstay, the top of the mast moves back; the middle of the mast moves back (less than at the top); the weighted line will move aft along the boom; the forestay will be straighter and you'll see the bend of the mast when sighting from the side from the boom to the top of the mast. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely. As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and rotating from the deck pivot point. As it rotates (pivots) backward it tightens the forestay. That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a mast; no bending, but more than an inch back and down. The thinner sections with multiple spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending. Both motions move the tip of the mast back and down since the forestay is mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and more tension takes some droop out). Since systems seek an equilibrium which reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium. Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone. And tuning them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight! Those with multiple spreaders are the devils own design. Ron Wild Cheri C&C 30-1 STL *From:*Sam Salter via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> *To:* CNC-LIST mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> *Cc:* Sam Salter mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com>> *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what I'm missing: Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put. Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in space, fore and aft. When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay? Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main. Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? sam :-) C&C 26 Liquorice GhostLake Alberta ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you lik
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
With 10 inches, wouldn't that be very effective for moving the draft of the main forward as well as tightening the luff of the jib? On Jun 5, 2016 2:02 PM, "Ainslie via CnC-List" wrote: > I recently did the procedure Alan describes on my 35-3, using the main > halyard and a six-pack for weight. With the boom slightly off to starboard, > I used tape as markers on the boom for each of my ‘soundings’. I started > with no tension on the hydraulic backstay, and progressed to 500 kpsi, > 1000, and 1500 kpsi. Each of those increments moved the masthead aft 2 to 3 > inches. From the no-tension position to 1500 kpsi, my beer-bob weight moved > aft a total of 10 inches. I didn’t notice a difference in the beer-bob with > the babystay tensioned or not (which makes sense because the babystay won’t > affect the masthead), but it was easy to see the bend in the mast. If you > stand at the mast with any amount of tension on the backstay, and you flex > the babystay by hand, you’ll see how the mast flexes. Not hard to see how > this is an important control in sail trim. > > > > Jason Ainslie, Spirit > > C&C 35 Mk III > > Port of Bayfield Ontario > > > -- > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *ALAN > BERGEN via CnC-List > *Sent:* June-04-16 2:35 PM > *To:* cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* ALAN BERGEN > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? > > > > The babystay doesn't go slack. The whole mast moves back, but more at the > top than at the middle. If you want to see the effect of tightening the > backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast from the side while > the backstay is not tensioned too tight. Then run a weighted line (or even > your main halyard if the main is down) from the top of the mast to the > boom. When you tension the backstay, the top of the mast moves back; the > middle of the mast moves back (less than at the top); the weighted line > will move aft along the boom; the forestay will be straighter and you'll > see the bend of the mast when sighting from the side from the boom to the > top of the mast. > > Alan Bergen > > 35 Mk III Thirsty > > Rose City YC > > Portland, OR > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely. > As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and > rotating from the deck pivot point. As it rotates (pivots) backward it > tightens the forestay. That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a > mast; no bending, but more than an inch back and down. The thinner > sections with multiple spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending. > Both motions move the tip of the mast back and down since the forestay is > mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and > more tension takes some droop out). Since systems seek an equilibrium > which reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the > bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium. > > Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone. And tuning > them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight! Those > with multiple spreaders are the devils own design. > > Ron > > Wild Cheri > > C&C 30-1 > > STL > > > > > > > -- > > *From:* Sam Salter via CnC-List > *To:* CNC-LIST > *Cc:* Sam Salter > *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? > > > > Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain > what I'm missing: > > > > Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. > Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the > forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put. > > Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in > space, fore and aft. > > When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the > middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay? > > Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main. > > Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? > > > > sam :-) > > C&C 26 Liquorice > > Ghost Lake Alberta > > > > > > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly ap
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
I recently did the procedure Alan describes on my 35-3, using the main halyard and a six-pack for weight. With the boom slightly off to starboard, I used tape as markers on the boom for each of my ‘soundings’. I started with no tension on the hydraulic backstay, and progressed to 500 kpsi, 1000, and 1500 kpsi. Each of those increments moved the masthead aft 2 to 3 inches. From the no-tension position to 1500 kpsi, my beer-bob weight moved aft a total of 10 inches. I didn’t notice a difference in the beer-bob with the babystay tensioned or not (which makes sense because the babystay won’t affect the masthead), but it was easy to see the bend in the mast. If you stand at the mast with any amount of tension on the backstay, and you flex the babystay by hand, you’ll see how the mast flexes. Not hard to see how this is an important control in sail trim. Jason Ainslie, Spirit C&C 35 Mk III Port of Bayfield Ontario _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List Sent: June-04-16 2:35 PM To: cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com Cc: ALAN BERGEN Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? The babystay doesn't go slack. The whole mast moves back, but more at the top than at the middle. If you want to see the effect of tightening the backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast from the side while the backstay is not tensioned too tight. Then run a weighted line (or even your main halyard if the main is down) from the top of the mast to the boom. When you tension the backstay, the top of the mast moves back; the middle of the mast moves back (less than at the top); the weighted line will move aft along the boom; the forestay will be straighter and you'll see the bend of the mast when sighting from the side from the boom to the top of the mast. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List wrote: Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely. As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and rotating from the deck pivot point. As it rotates (pivots) backward it tightens the forestay. That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a mast; no bending, but more than an inch back and down. The thinner sections with multiple spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending. Both motions move the tip of the mast back and down since the forestay is mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and more tension takes some droop out). Since systems seek an equilibrium which reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium. Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone. And tuning them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight! Those with multiple spreaders are the devils own design. Ron Wild Cheri C&C 30-1 STL _ From: Sam Salter via CnC-List To: CNC-LIST Cc: Sam Salter Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what I'm missing: Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put. Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in space, fore and aft. When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay? Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main. Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? sam :-) C&C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
The babystay doesn't go slack. The whole mast moves back, but more at the top than at the middle. If you want to see the effect of tightening the backstay, look at the forestay, and sight up the mast from the side while the backstay is not tensioned too tight. Then run a weighted line (or even your main halyard if the main is down) from the top of the mast to the boom. When you tension the backstay, the top of the mast moves back; the middle of the mast moves back (less than at the top); the weighted line will move aft along the boom; the forestay will be straighter and you'll see the bend of the mast when sighting from the side from the boom to the top of the mast. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely. > As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and > rotating from the deck pivot point. As it rotates (pivots) backward it > tightens the forestay. That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a > mast; no bending, but more than an inch back and down. The thinner > sections with multiple spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending. > Both motions move the tip of the mast back and down since the forestay is > mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and > more tension takes some droop out). Since systems seek an equilibrium > which reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the > bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium. > Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone. And tuning > them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight! Those > with multiple spreaders are the devils own design. > Ron > Wild Cheri > C&C 30-1 > STL > > > > > -- > *From:* Sam Salter via CnC-List > *To:* CNC-LIST > *Cc:* Sam Salter > *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? > > Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain > what I'm missing: > > Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. > Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the > forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put. > Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in > space, fore and aft. > When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the > middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay? > Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main. > Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? > > sam :-) > C&C 26 Liquorice > Ghost Lake Alberta > > > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Sam, like you said, the mast is more or less fixed, but not completely. As you decrease backstay length the mast has two motions, bending and rotating from the deck pivot point. As it rotates (pivots) backward it tightens the forestay. That's about all I get with my tree trunk of a mast; no bending, but more than an inch back and down. The thinner sections with multiple spreaders and/or babystays will get more bending. Both motions move the tip of the mast back and down since the forestay is mostly fixed (it does lengthen slightly since it's a bit of a catenary and more tension takes some droop out). Since systems seek an equilibrium which reduces overall tension, the babystay will loosen slightly with the bending, but will assist the bending motion until equilibrium.Frac rigs get a lot more bending of course by geometry alone. And tuning them starts with lighting a candle by the hollow stump at midnight! Those with multiple spreaders are the devils own design.RonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL From: Sam Salter via CnC-List To: CNC-LIST Cc: Sam Salter Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what I'm missing: Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put.Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in space, fore and aft.When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main.Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? sam :-)C&C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta #yiv7134972356 #yiv7134972356 -- _filtered #yiv7134972356 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7134972356 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7134972356 {panose-1:2 11 7 3 2 1 2 2 2 4;}#yiv7134972356 #yiv7134972356 p.yiv7134972356MsoNormal, #yiv7134972356 li.yiv7134972356MsoNormal, #yiv7134972356 div.yiv7134972356MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7134972356 a:link, #yiv7134972356 span.yiv7134972356MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7134972356 a:visited, #yiv7134972356 span.yiv7134972356MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7134972356 p.yiv7134972356msonormal0, #yiv7134972356 li.yiv7134972356msonormal0, #yiv7134972356 div.yiv7134972356msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7134972356 span.yiv7134972356EmailStyle18 {color:windowtext;}#yiv7134972356 .yiv7134972356MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv7134972356 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7134972356 div.yiv7134972356WordSection1 {}#yiv7134972356___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Jake, Sam, I saw a substantial increase in mast bend when using the baby stay in addition to the backstay over just the backstay on my prior 35-3. My sails were designed for that full mast bend, so worth checking out at the dock. Regards, Tim ex-Mojito On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:33 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Sam, > > > > I usually tension the backstay first and have never noticed a problem with > slack in the babystay. We don’t use the baby stay much, as the winds here > tend to be light. The babystay doesn’t really pull at an effective angle > to generate much mast bend either. It does stabilize the lower section of > the mast though. I usually can’t see the babystay from the helm, but the > effect on the mast (as far as being stable) is noticeable. > > > > Jake > > > > *Jake Brodersen* > > *C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”* > > *Hampton VA* > > > > > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam > Salter via CnC-List > *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2016 22:51 > *To:* CNC-LIST > *Cc:* Sam Salter > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? > > > > Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain > what I'm missing: > > > > Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. > Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the > forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put. > > Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in > space, fore and aft. > > When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the > middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay? > > Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main. > > Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? > > > > sam :-) > > C&C 26 Liquorice > > Ghost Lake Alberta > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Sam, I usually tension the backstay first and have never noticed a problem with slack in the babystay. We don’t use the baby stay much, as the winds here tend to be light. The babystay doesn’t really pull at an effective angle to generate much mast bend either. It does stabilize the lower section of the mast though. I usually can’t see the babystay from the helm, but the effect on the mast (as far as being stable) is noticeable. Jake Jake Brodersen C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress” Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Sam Salter via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 22:51 To: CNC-LIST Cc: Sam Salter Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what I'm missing: Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put. Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in space, fore and aft. When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay? Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main. Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it??? sam :-) C&C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Looking at this as an engineering problem (I don't have a 30-2) - explain what I'm missing:Top of the mast is more or less fixed (fore and aft) by the forestay. Sure, it will move back an inch or two when it takes up slack in the forestay, but mostly it's going to stay put.Baby stay puts pre bend into centre of mast or at least fixes it in space, fore and aft.When backstay is tensioned won't the top move mostly down and push the middle of the mast forward, slackening the baby stay?Tensioning the forestay and taking draft out of the main.Do you guys see the baby stay go slack or am I full of it???sam :-)C&C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta From: allen via CnC-ListSent: Friday, June 3, 2016 7:53 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: allenSubject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? Jake's pretty much right on. You should have a baby stay that will secure the mid point of the mast in space allowing backstay adjuster to bend the mast aft and flatten the main. Primarily you're looking to increase forestay tension. Allen Miles S/v Septima 30-2 Hampton, VA From: Jake Brodersen via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 9:05 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jake Brodersen Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? Your adjustable backstay is used to control forestay tension. You probably won’t get a lot of mast bend, but as I recall the 30-2 had a skinny mast. It may flatten your main a bit too. Jake Jake Brodersen C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress” Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa via CnC-ListSent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 21:48To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: Lorne Serpa <lorne.se...@gmail.com>Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. ___This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Jake's pretty much right on. You should have a baby stay that will secure the mid point of the mast in space allowing backstay adjuster to bend the mast aft and flatten the main. Primarily you're looking to increase forestay tension. Allen Miles S/v Septima 30-2 Hampton, VA From: Jake Brodersen via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 9:05 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jake Brodersen Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? Your adjustable backstay is used to control forestay tension. You probably won’t get a lot of mast bend, but as I recall the 30-2 had a skinny mast. It may flatten your main a bit too. Jake Jake Brodersen C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress” Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 21:48 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Lorne Serpa Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Your adjustable backstay is used to control forestay tension. You probably won’t get a lot of mast bend, but as I recall the 30-2 had a skinny mast. It may flatten your main a bit too. Jake Jake Brodersen C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress” Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 21:48 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Lorne Serpa Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Talk to other 30mkII about the specifics of your mast Lorne. The 34+/36xl has very racy-flexible mast from what I've seen and a significantly taller rig. (love those 34+/36's!). To get the mast on my 30mkII to bend 6" would be on the top end of loads for the mast section and height that we have in my experience. Other mkII owners may have a different experience. KD On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:38 AM Bmue via CnC-List wrote: > Hi Lorne, > I found this quite useful...you get the lingo and the overall concepts > along with good drawings. > > http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf > > Have fun... > Bettina > > On Jun 1, 2016, at 19:47, Lorne Serpa via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > > > I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. > However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full > rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays > are attached at the top. > > How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay > is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know > all the lingo yet. > > Thanks. > > ___ > > > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Hi Lorne, I found this quite useful...you get the lingo and the overall concepts along with good drawings. http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf Have fun... Bettina > On Jun 1, 2016, at 19:47, Lorne Serpa via CnC-List > wrote: > > I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I > have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. > fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are > attached at the top. > How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is > attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the > lingo yet. > Thanks. > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Francois You are correct about the 6 inches for masthead. This is about the same on our Frers 33. It seems very odd when compared with the backstay adjustment on a fractional rig like our former J27 or the C&C 115 we raced. On the 27 backstay pullt the top of mast aft in feet not inches. It was very noticeable. Mike From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 10:49 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jean-Francois J Rivard Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? The Dutch guy on the Youtube video is full of crap. It works the exact same way with the masthead rig. Think about pulling the string back on a bow (Bow and arrows) it has the exact same effect. It moves the top down and back / bows the mast in middle (Your mast has flexibility built into it for that reason) thus flattening the main and tightening the forestay / flattening the entry on the genoa as well. When I crank on my back stay the mast head bends down / back about 6 inches, you can see it if you sight it as someone cranks on the backstay. Francois Rivard 1990 34+ "Take Five" Lake Lanier, GA I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. Regards ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
One year I sailed a wooden boat where the last 1000 lbs of backstay tension was just the stern getting nearer the masthead, rather than the inverse! Andy C&C 40 Peregrine On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > The Dutch guy on the Youtube video is full of crap. > > It works the exact same way with the masthead rig. Think about pulling > the string back on a bow (Bow and arrows) it has the exact same effect. It > moves the top down and back / bows the mast in middle (Your mast has > flexibility built into it for that reason) thus flattening the main and > tightening the forestay / flattening the entry on the genoa as well. > When I crank on my back stay the mast head bends down / back about 6 > inches, you can see it if you sight it as someone cranks on the backstay. > > > Francois Rivard > 1990 34+ "Take Five" > Lake Lanier, GA > > > > > I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I > have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. > fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are > attached at the top. > How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is > attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all > the lingo yet. > Thanks. > Regards > > > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Do you have a baby stay? On 2016-06-02 09:48 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List wrote: The Dutch guy on the Youtube video is full of crap. It works the exact same way with the masthead rig. Think about pulling the string back on a bow (Bow and arrows) it has the exact same effect. It moves the top down and back / bows the mast in middle (Your mast has flexibility built into it for that reason) thus flattening the main and tightening the forestay / flattening the entry on the genoa as well. When I crank on my back stay the mast head bends down / back about 6 inches, you can see it if you sight it as someone cranks on the backstay. Francois Rivard 1990 34+ "Take Five" Lake Lanier, GA I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. Regards ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
The Dutch guy on the Youtube video is full of crap. It works the exact same way with the masthead rig. Think about pulling the string back on a bow (Bow and arrows) it has the exact same effect. It moves the top down and back / bows the mast in middle (Your mast has flexibility built into it for that reason) thus flattening the main and tightening the forestay / flattening the entry on the genoa as well. When I crank on my back stay the mast head bends down / back about 6 inches, you can see it if you sight it as someone cranks on the backstay. Francois Rivard 1990 34+ "Take Five" Lake Lanier, GA I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. Regards ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Lorne Mostly the backstay on a masthead rig tensions or eases tension on the forestay. This affects jib shape mostly but still does help with mast bend a bit for the main as well Mike From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Lorne Serpa via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 10:48 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Lorne Serpa Subject: Stus-List Adjustable backstay? I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
Hi Lorne, You have a "mast head rig". Full rig is a term better suited for bigger ships. Be thankful for the adjustable backstay. It's nice to have. Downwind work = tension off Upwind work = tension on, more wind = more tension It's that simple. The subtleties come with how much tension to apply. At this stage, apply more tension when sailing upwind to make the boat heel less (more comfortable). The function of an applied adjustable backstay on a mast head rig boat is to reduce jibstay sag. This moves the jib draft forward and you get less heeling forces (comparatively more forward force). In light winds and reaches you need to reduce backstay tension to move the jib draft aft. The function of a mainsail cunnigham and babystay is to move the mainsail draft forward. These controls are used in conjunction with the backstay adjustment. Halyard loading is important too. Watch for creases or wrinkles in the luff. Do not talk to fractional rig people, they are evil and not to be trusted. :) Cheers, Russ Sweet 35 mk-1 At 06:47 PM 01/06/2016, you wrote: I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Adjustable backstay?
I'm new to sailing. My C&C 30MkII has an adjustable back stay. However, I have watched a couple sailing videos and they say with a full rig vs. fractional, it cannot be adjusted because the back and front stays are attached at the top. How do you adjust the mast rack/bend with a back stay if the fore stay is attached at the same point? Keeps answers simple for me...don't know all the lingo yet. Thanks. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!