Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
"That boat loves it when the wind pipes up" You were so right, Mike. Raced in 25 kt. gusts again tonight for the second time in two weeks, and won for the second time in two weeks. Carried full main and 155% genoa with six bodies on the rail and couldn't get a rail in the water or induce a round-up or feel excessive weather helm. Gapped the fleet from the start and beat the next boat by at least a minute. She does love the stronger wind. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Mike via CnC-List Hoyt" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Mike Hoyt" <mike.h...@impgroup.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 6:20:58 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 If gusty and triangles and boats are “trying to stay in control or reduce weather helm” then bodies on the rail will keep you powered up and fast. Otherwise you will need a main trimmer to work very closely with helm to keep you on your feet If you JAM is triangles and everyone is at hull speed then you do not really require to be in spin class since there are no DDW legs and the 30 with a large genoa should always be moving. That boat loves it when the wind pipes up. Put some bodies on board and on the rail and do not reef too early and you will kick but on triangle JAM courses. Once you get bored of that and when you have 6 persons then try switching to WL with the spin Mike From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:49 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Hi All, I'd welcome any opinions you might like to share on racing a 30-1. As mentioned in the other thread on handicapping JAM boats, I have a choice of racing my (new to me) 30-1 in a spinnaker boat division or a non-spinnaker boat division (my boat is rigged for spinnaker). We have ten-week series in my club, and I'd have to stay in one division for a whole series (but could switch divisions between series). We also have occasional one and two-day weekend races in which I'd have to choose a division. >From what I see in >http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf > , it looks like a 30-1 usually gets a PHRF rating of 174, which would be the >third-lowest rating in my club. We've got a Capri-25 at 173, and an F-240s at >170. One of my questions is how many crew are advisable for racing a 30-1, with spinnaker or without. On smaller boats (Capri-22s, J/22s, Merit 25s) we'd race and fly spinnaker with three crew - helm, trimmer, and foredeck. A fourth could come in handy in heavy air. I've gotten a couple indications that I should have maybe twice that number for a 30-1. What are the typical crew positions on a 30-1? If it makes any difference, my spinnakers have dousing socks. I race on a lake in Colorado. The spinnaker division courses are upwind / downwind, and the non-spinnaker division courses are triangles. We generally try to set courses so that races last 60-90 minutes. Weather-wise we have varied conditions from night to night. Some nights are frickin' gusty, with Colorado afternoon and evening thunderstorms. Some nights are light air and we run out of beer before finishing :) Several times a year we get really good conditions - a steady 15-20 kt. breeze in which everyone's at hull speed and and trying to stay in control and / or reduce weather helm. Sea state is not really an issue, except for some powerboat wake and chop. If there were more light-air nights in a series than heavy-air nights, would a 30-1 perform better against its PRHF on a triangle course, or on an upwind / downwind course? How many crew (some experienced, some not, all still reasonably agile) are needed to handle a 30-1 safely under spinnaker in gusty or heavy-air conditions? Thanks in advance for any opinions. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30 MK1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
Dwight is right on with his observation IMO From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of dwight veinot via CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com] Sent: March 1, 2016 6:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 That boat really loves 15-20 apparent upwind with a No. 1 headsail. If you and your crew want to do spinnaker fleet you can for sure, but in my opinion you will have more fun on the triangle course, guess it depends on who you choose to race against Dwight Veinot C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net<mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: I'm probably not remembering the length correctly. I'd never seen a reaching strut before and didn't know what it was when I saw it at the survey. To me it looked like a short spin pole. It was short enough to fit in the lazarette of a 30-1. I'm towing the boat from its current location to my lake in two weeks, so I'll get another look at it then. Cheers, Randy From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Gary Nylander" <gnylan...@atlanticbb.net<mailto:gnylan...@atlanticbb.net>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:39:06 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 If it is really only a couple of feet long, it may not attach to the mast. Our PHRF rules say that any strut which holds a sail must attach there, but I don’t know about one which is only controlling a sheet and would never touch the sail. ??? On our 30, we don’t use separate guys, just two sheets off the chute, one becomes the foreguy and the other is the aft. We end-for-end the pole. I use the twings (tweakers) to control the ‘guy’ sheet. Gary From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net<mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 You're right Martin. The PO explained it to me at the survey, but neither of us understood it very well :) I'll look for an attachment for it near the mast base. Cheers, Randy From: "Martin DeYoung via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Martin DeYoung" <mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com<mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:05:07 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like > a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker to force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the pole aft) away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to pull the pole off the forestay. One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, the other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the reaching strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of raising up. On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew keep well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully loaded. One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him when taking pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the reaching strut down close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up quickly hitting his hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage beyond a good thump. He was not invited back. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle [Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net<mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) t
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
That boat really loves 15-20 apparent upwind with a No. 1 headsail. If you and your crew want to do spinnaker fleet you can for sure, but in my opinion you will have more fun on the triangle course, guess it depends on who you choose to race against Dwight Veinot C 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > I'm probably not remembering the length correctly. I'd never seen a > reaching strut before and didn't know what it was when I saw it at the > survey. To me it looked like a short spin pole. It was short enough to > fit in the lazarette of a 30-1. I'm towing the boat from its current > location to my lake in two weeks, so I'll get another look at it then. > > Cheers, > Randy > > -- > *From: *"Gary Nylander via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc: *"Gary Nylander" <gnylan...@atlanticbb.net> > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:39:06 PM > > *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > > If it is really only a couple of feet long, it may not attach to the mast. > Our PHRF rules say that any strut which holds a sail must attach there, but > I don’t know about one which is only controlling a sheet and would never > touch the sail. ??? On our 30, we don’t use separate guys, just two sheets > off the chute, one becomes the foreguy and the other is the aft. We > end-for-end the pole. I use the twings (tweakers) to control the ‘guy’ > sheet. > > > > Gary > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Randy > Stafford via CnC-List > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:36 PM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* randy.staff...@comcast.net > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > > > > You're right Martin. The PO explained it to me at the survey, but neither > of us understood it very well :) I'll look for an attachment for it near > the mast base. > > > > Cheers, > > Randy > > > -- > > *From: *"Martin DeYoung via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc: *"Martin DeYoung" <mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com> > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:05:07 PM > *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > > > > > My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end > like a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. > > > > That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker > to force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the > pole aft) away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to > pull the pole off the forestay. > > > > One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, > the other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the > reaching strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of > raising up. > > > > On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew > keep well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully > loaded. One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him > when taking pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the > reaching strut down close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up > quickly hitting his hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage > beyond a good thump. He was not invited back. > > > > Martin DeYoung > > Calypso > > 1971 C 43 > > Seattle > > > [image: Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] *On Behalf Of *Randy Stafford via > CnC-List > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* randy.staff...@comcast.net > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > > > > Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that > affect crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on > transom, halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. > > > > So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail > trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could > trim the main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But > probably need four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, > and more is better as the air gets heavier. > > > > Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
I'm probably not remembering the length correctly. I'd never seen a reaching strut before and didn't know what it was when I saw it at the survey. To me it looked like a short spin pole. It was short enough to fit in the lazarette of a 30-1. I'm towing the boat from its current location to my lake in two weeks, so I'll get another look at it then. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Gary Nylander" <gnylan...@atlanticbb.net> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:39:06 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 If it is really only a couple of feet long, it may not attach to the mast. Our PHRF rules say that any strut which holds a sail must attach there, but I don’t know about one which is only controlling a sheet and would never touch the sail. ??? On our 30, we don’t use separate guys, just two sheets off the chute, one becomes the foreguy and the other is the aft. We end-for-end the pole. I use the twings (tweakers) to control the ‘guy’ sheet. Gary From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 You're right Martin. The PO explained it to me at the survey, but neither of us understood it very well :) I'll look for an attachment for it near the mast base. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Martin DeYoung via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Martin DeYoung" < mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:05:07 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like > a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker to force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the pole aft) away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to pull the pole off the forestay. One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, the other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the reaching strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of raising up. On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew keep well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully loaded. One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him when taking pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the reaching strut down close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up quickly hitting his hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage beyond a good thump. He was not invited back. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better as the air gets heavier. Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A division (spinnaker) for the summer series. Much appreciated. Cheers, Randy ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
If it is really only a couple of feet long, it may not attach to the mast. Our PHRF rules say that any strut which holds a sail must attach there, but I don’t know about one which is only controlling a sheet and would never touch the sail. ??? On our 30, we don’t use separate guys, just two sheets off the chute, one becomes the foreguy and the other is the aft. We end-for-end the pole. I use the twings (tweakers) to control the ‘guy’ sheet. Gary From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 You're right Martin. The PO explained it to me at the survey, but neither of us understood it very well :) I'll look for an attachment for it near the mast base. Cheers, Randy _ From: "Martin DeYoung via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Martin DeYoung" <mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com <mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:05:07 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like > a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker to force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the pole aft) away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to pull the pole off the forestay. One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, the other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the reaching strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of raising up. On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew keep well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully loaded. One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him when taking pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the reaching strut down close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up quickly hitting his hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage beyond a good thump. He was not invited back. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net <mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better as the air gets heavier. Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A division (spinnaker) for the summer series. Much appreciated. Cheers, Randy ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
You're right Martin. The PO explained it to me at the survey, but neither of us understood it very well :) I'll look for an attachment for it near the mast base. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Martin DeYoung via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Martin DeYoung" <mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:05:07 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 > My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like > a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker to force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the pole aft) away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to pull the pole off the forestay. One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, the other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the reaching strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of raising up. On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew keep well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully loaded. One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him when taking pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the reaching strut down close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up quickly hitting his hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage beyond a good thump. He was not invited back. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better as the air gets heavier. Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A division (spinnaker) for the summer series. Much appreciated. Cheers, Randy ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
> My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like > a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker to force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the pole aft) away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to pull the pole off the forestay. One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, the other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the reaching strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of raising up. On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew keep well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully loaded. One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him when taking pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the reaching strut down close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up quickly hitting his hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage beyond a good thump. He was not invited back. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle [Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better as the air gets heavier. Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A division (spinnaker) for the summer series. Much appreciated. Cheers, Randy ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better as the air gets heavier. Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A division (spinnaker) for the summer series. Much appreciated. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Gary Nylander" <gnylan...@atlanticbb.net> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:20:13 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 I’ll try to answer your questions, but the 30 is somewhat unique. I say this from owning and racing mine for over 20 years. I have raced both spinnaker and non-spinnaker and picked up my fair share of trophies in each. My ex (Admiral – we share the boat) and her husband race her now in a mixed fleet and have done quite well, taking the series title a couple of years ago (she drives, he grinds and the rest of the crew is pretty good). I won our JAM series in 2013 and was second in 2014 (didn’t race all the races last year). Crew: five or six for spin – one on bow to hook up the chute and pull down the genoa – one on mast – handles pole end and helps on the halyards and adjusts the outhaul – everything else on Penniless is led aft, so there can be four in cockpit (too many) so spin trimmer is generally standing by the windows. Driver, main trimmer (traveler is on bridge deck by companionway, easily handled by one person and it is not that vital to jump back to the rail – boat is stout as I said), two jib folks, one to let out, and the other to pull in. Any more, they go on the rail. For JAM, don’t always need the bow person, so mast person can do both – and no spin to trim. Most of the time I like five for JAM, because we sometimes use the spin pole with the genoa. And, sometimes we change sails, no furler. The boat does well on reaches only if you sheet the genoa to the rail or further out with a barber hauler device – I have inboard adjustable genoa tracks. It helps a lot to have some under 60 folks aboard – young and strong is great when hauling in the genoa – it is big. And…. Everybody will tell you – good sails, clean bottom, skilled crew and the 30 will do well in either fleet. Gary #593 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:49 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Hi All, I'd welcome any opinions you might like to share on racing a 30-1. As mentioned in the other thread on handicapping JAM boats, I have a choice of racing my (new to me) 30-1 in a spinnaker boat division or a non-spinnaker boat division (my boat is rigged for spinnaker). We have ten-week series in my club, and I'd have to stay in one division for a whole series (but could switch divisions between series). We also have occasional one and two-day weekend races in which I'd have to choose a division. >From what I see in >http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf > , it looks like a 30-1 usually gets a PHRF rating of 174, which would be the >third-lowest rating in my club. We've got a Capri-25 at 173, and an F-240s at >170. One of my questions is how many crew are advisable for racing a 30-1, with spinnaker or without. On smaller boats (Capri-22s, J/22s, Merit 25s) we'd race and fly spinnaker with three crew - helm, trimmer, and foredeck. A fourth could come in handy in heavy air. I've gotten a couple indications that I should have maybe twice that number for a 30-1. What are the typical crew positions on a 30-1? If it makes any difference, my spinnakers have dousing socks. I race on a lake in Colorado. The spinnaker division courses are upwind / downwind, and the non-spinnaker division courses are triangles. We generally try to set courses so that races last 60-90 minutes. Weather-wise we have varied conditions from night to night. Some nights are frickin' gusty, with Colorado afternoon and evening thunderst
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
I’ll try to answer your questions, but the 30 is somewhat unique. I say this from owning and racing mine for over 20 years. I have raced both spinnaker and non-spinnaker and picked up my fair share of trophies in each. My ex (Admiral – we share the boat) and her husband race her now in a mixed fleet and have done quite well, taking the series title a couple of years ago (she drives, he grinds and the rest of the crew is pretty good). I won our JAM series in 2013 and was second in 2014 (didn’t race all the races last year). Crew: five or six for spin – one on bow to hook up the chute and pull down the genoa – one on mast – handles pole end and helps on the halyards and adjusts the outhaul – everything else on Penniless is led aft, so there can be four in cockpit (too many) so spin trimmer is generally standing by the windows. Driver, main trimmer (traveler is on bridge deck by companionway, easily handled by one person and it is not that vital to jump back to the rail – boat is stout as I said), two jib folks, one to let out, and the other to pull in. Any more, they go on the rail. For JAM, don’t always need the bow person, so mast person can do both – and no spin to trim. Most of the time I like five for JAM, because we sometimes use the spin pole with the genoa. And, sometimes we change sails, no furler. The boat does well on reaches only if you sheet the genoa to the rail or further out with a barber hauler device – I have inboard adjustable genoa tracks. It helps a lot to have some under 60 folks aboard – young and strong is great when hauling in the genoa – it is big. And…. Everybody will tell you – good sails, clean bottom, skilled crew and the 30 will do well in either fleet. Gary #593 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:49 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Hi All, I'd welcome any opinions you might like to share on racing a 30-1. As mentioned in the other thread on handicapping JAM boats, I have a choice of racing my (new to me) 30-1 in a spinnaker boat division or a non-spinnaker boat division (my boat is rigged for spinnaker). We have ten-week series in my club, and I'd have to stay in one division for a whole series (but could switch divisions between series). We also have occasional one and two-day weekend races in which I'd have to choose a division. >From what I see in >http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf, > it looks like a 30-1 usually gets a PHRF rating of 174, which would be the >third-lowest rating in my club. We've got a Capri-25 at 173, and an F-240s at >170. One of my questions is how many crew are advisable for racing a 30-1, with spinnaker or without. On smaller boats (Capri-22s, J/22s, Merit 25s) we'd race and fly spinnaker with three crew - helm, trimmer, and foredeck. A fourth could come in handy in heavy air. I've gotten a couple indications that I should have maybe twice that number for a 30-1. What are the typical crew positions on a 30-1? If it makes any difference, my spinnakers have dousing socks. I race on a lake in Colorado. The spinnaker division courses are upwind / downwind, and the non-spinnaker division courses are triangles. We generally try to set courses so that races last 60-90 minutes. Weather-wise we have varied conditions from night to night. Some nights are frickin' gusty, with Colorado afternoon and evening thunderstorms. Some nights are light air and we run out of beer before finishing :) Several times a year we get really good conditions - a steady 15-20 kt. breeze in which everyone's at hull speed and and trying to stay in control and / or reduce weather helm. Sea state is not really an issue, except for some powerboat wake and chop. If there were more light-air nights in a series than heavy-air nights, would a 30-1 perform better against its PRHF on a triangle course, or on an upwind / downwind course? How many crew (some experienced, some not, all still reasonably agile) are needed to handle a 30-1 safely under spinnaker in gusty or heavy-air conditions? Thanks in advance for any opinions. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30 MK1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
If gusty and triangles and boats are “trying to stay in control or reduce weather helm” then bodies on the rail will keep you powered up and fast. Otherwise you will need a main trimmer to work very closely with helm to keep you on your feet If you JAM is triangles and everyone is at hull speed then you do not really require to be in spin class since there are no DDW legs and the 30 with a large genoa should always be moving. That boat loves it when the wind pipes up. Put some bodies on board and on the rail and do not reef too early and you will kick but on triangle JAM courses. Once you get bored of that and when you have 6 persons then try switching to WL with the spin Mike From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:49 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 Hi All, I'd welcome any opinions you might like to share on racing a 30-1. As mentioned in the other thread on handicapping JAM boats, I have a choice of racing my (new to me) 30-1 in a spinnaker boat division or a non-spinnaker boat division (my boat is rigged for spinnaker). We have ten-week series in my club, and I'd have to stay in one division for a whole series (but could switch divisions between series). We also have occasional one and two-day weekend races in which I'd have to choose a division. From what I see in http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf, it looks like a 30-1 usually gets a PHRF rating of 174, which would be the third-lowest rating in my club. We've got a Capri-25 at 173, and an F-240s at 170. One of my questions is how many crew are advisable for racing a 30-1, with spinnaker or without. On smaller boats (Capri-22s, J/22s, Merit 25s) we'd race and fly spinnaker with three crew - helm, trimmer, and foredeck. A fourth could come in handy in heavy air. I've gotten a couple indications that I should have maybe twice that number for a 30-1. What are the typical crew positions on a 30-1? If it makes any difference, my spinnakers have dousing socks. I race on a lake in Colorado. The spinnaker division courses are upwind / downwind, and the non-spinnaker division courses are triangles. We generally try to set courses so that races last 60-90 minutes. Weather-wise we have varied conditions from night to night. Some nights are frickin' gusty, with Colorado afternoon and evening thunderstorms. Some nights are light air and we run out of beer before finishing :) Several times a year we get really good conditions - a steady 15-20 kt. breeze in which everyone's at hull speed and and trying to stay in control and / or reduce weather helm. Sea state is not really an issue, except for some powerboat wake and chop. If there were more light-air nights in a series than heavy-air nights, would a 30-1 perform better against its PRHF on a triangle course, or on an upwind / downwind course? How many crew (some experienced, some not, all still reasonably agile) are needed to handle a 30-1 safely under spinnaker in gusty or heavy-air conditions? Thanks in advance for any opinions. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C 30 MK1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1
Real good questions. from what I gather fewer sometimes is better. That being said I don't think the driver should anything but drive and direct positions. The tactician needs to focus. he can lose the race by simple missing a start or a mark. Racing: - Captain/Helm - overall commander and drives boat - Tactician - Usually next to captain. Decides course and calls manuvers - Mainsail Trimmer - Often the captain will handle this on a very small boat. Trims main. - Headsail trimmers - Trim and tack headsail. Often trim spinnaker too - Pit - On small boats often done by trimmers. controls hallyards and topping lift and downhaul - Mast - Jumps sails and handles spinnaker pole on symmetrical spinnaker boats - Bow - The poor bastard who rigs headsails, skirts headsails and is generally yelled at by everyone. Most important person on boat. The ones in blue you can do without. If you are furled on your head-sail or not, you still need the position. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Capt, Curtis McDaniel Dataw Island Marina Harbor Master On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:49 AM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Hi All, > > I'd welcome any opinions you might like to share on racing a 30-1. As > mentioned in the other thread on handicapping JAM boats, I have a choice of > racing my (new to me) 30-1 in a spinnaker boat division or a non-spinnaker > boat division (my boat is rigged for spinnaker). We have ten-week series > in my club, and I'd have to stay in one division for a whole series (but > could switch divisions between series). We also have occasional one and > two-day weekend races in which I'd have to choose a division. > > From what I see in > http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf, > it looks like a 30-1 usually gets a PHRF rating of 174, which would be the > third-lowest rating in my club. We've got a Capri-25 at 173, and an F-240s > at 170. > > One of my questions is how many crew are advisable for racing a 30-1, with > spinnaker or without. On smaller boats (Capri-22s, J/22s, Merit 25s) we'd > race and fly spinnaker with three crew - helm, trimmer, and foredeck. A > fourth could come in handy in heavy air. I've gotten a couple indications > that I should have maybe twice that number for a 30-1. What are the > typical crew positions on a 30-1? If it makes any difference, my > spinnakers have dousing socks. > > I race on a lake in Colorado. The spinnaker division courses are upwind / > downwind, and the non-spinnaker division courses are triangles. We > generally try to set courses so that races last 60-90 minutes. > Weather-wise we have varied conditions from night to night. Some nights > are frickin' gusty, with Colorado afternoon and evening thunderstorms. > Some nights are light air and we run out of beer before finishing :) > Several times a year we get really good conditions - a steady 15-20 kt. > breeze in which everyone's at hull speed and and trying to stay in control > and / or reduce weather helm. Sea state is not really an issue, except for > some powerboat wake and chop. > > If there were more light-air nights in a series than heavy-air nights, > would a 30-1 perform better against its PRHF on a triangle course, or on an > upwind / downwind course? How many crew (some experienced, some not, all > still reasonably agile) are needed to handle a 30-1 safely under spinnaker > in gusty or heavy-air conditions? > > Thanks in advance for any opinions. > > Best Regards, > Randy Stafford > S/V Grenadine > C 30 MK1 #7 > Ken Caryl, CO > > ___ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the > bottom of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > -- *Best regards,* *Capt,Curtis McDaniel* *"At sea, I learned how little a person needs, not how much."470-313-0918* ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
