Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Of course the adhesive bond is the weak link compared to solid fiberglass or solid sheet metal. But compared to a gaping hole, it helps. An opening port light is a hole in the fiberglass. A non opening portlight secured with screws has 4-6-8 attachment points with a small surface area around the screws to absorb the load. A bonded surface has the entire length of the bond to absorb the load and restores some of the strength lost by creating the hole in the side of the cabin top. -Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, Ga From: dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com To: Jean-Francois J Rivard/Atlanta/IBM@IBMUS, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 02/16/2015 07:21 PM Subject:Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I think the adhesive bond is still the weak link and likely the first part of the system to fail unless the glass has a defect of some sort in it Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have not used VHB tape on portlights but I have used it on many other applications, one was securing my GoPro mount to a slalom ski.. High vibrations, water, you name it. The stuff is nothing short of phenomenal. As for bonded port lights helping with structural integrity, auto manufacturers have been bonding windshields instead of using rubber strips for decades.. The main reason is to improve torsional rigidity. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Paul, Go here: http://cncphotoalbum.com/technical/sealant_usage.htm Bookmark it. Yet another nice resource provided by Stu. (Please donate to the CC Photoalbum.) I've used LifeSeal to set lenses in Bomar and other hatches. Works well. However, horizontal hatch installations are different than cabin portlights in later model CC's. To create a nice looking seal around the edges of any lenses, tape the lens and cabin or frame, fill gap with sealant and smooth with the backside of a plastic spoon (Wendy's spoons work well. Radius is about right.) Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:24 AM, PME via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi, Nice discussion. I am looking to replace my window lenses soon too(likely go w/ 1/4” grey Lexan). I like the idea of using 3M’s VHB tape along with an adhesive/sealant. I have read somewhere (I lost the link) of folks using VHB with black 3M 4000/UV with great results. I have used 4000/UV in the past for deck hardware and hatch rebedding, and I like it’s ease of use.Has anyone use 4000/UV on lexan/plexi windows? I found the link below which provides a nice description of various marine sealants . It specifically lists 4000/UV as well suited for use with plastics. http://blog.dankim.com/2009/04/24/marine-sealants/ - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:20 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 15:59:28 -0600 From: Brent Driedger bren...@highspeedcrow.ca To: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Message-ID: 5fed87b6-6db3-4aa6-af3e-9d24071d3...@highspeedcrow.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Try this link to 3M VHB tapes. http://m.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/mAdhesives/Tapes/Products/?rt=msresultsPerPage=10Ntt=VHBx=0y=0 Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Hi, Nice discussion. I am looking to replace my window lenses soon too(likely go w/ 1/4” grey Lexan). I like the idea of using 3M’s VHB tape along with an adhesive/sealant. I have read somewhere (I lost the link) of folks using VHB with black 3M 4000/UV with great results. I have used 4000/UV in the past for deck hardware and hatch rebedding, and I like it’s ease of use.Has anyone use 4000/UV on lexan/plexi windows? I found the link below which provides a nice description of various marine sealants . It specifically lists 4000/UV as well suited for use with plastics. http://blog.dankim.com/2009/04/24/marine-sealants/ - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:20 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 15:59:28 -0600 From: Brent Driedger bren...@highspeedcrow.ca mailto:bren...@highspeedcrow.ca To: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com mailto:muckl...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Message-ID: 5fed87b6-6db3-4aa6-af3e-9d24071d3...@highspeedcrow.ca mailto:5fed87b6-6db3-4aa6-af3e-9d24071d3...@highspeedcrow.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Try this link to 3M VHB tapes. http://m.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/mAdhesives/Tapes/Products/?rt=msresultsPerPage=10Ntt=VHBx=0y=0 http://m.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/mAdhesives/Tapes/Products/?rt=msresultsPerPage=10Ntt=VHBx=0y=0 Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I have not used VHB tape on portlights but I have used it on many other applications, one was securing my GoPro mount to a slalom ski.. High vibrations, water, you name it. The stuff is nothing short of phenomenal. As for bonded port lights helping with structural integrity, auto manufacturers have been bonding windshields instead of using rubber strips for decades.. The main reason is to improve torsional rigidity. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Based on my experience, I think that it would be a very bad choice. My boat has 3/8 plexiglass screwed and glued on top of the gelcoat with something like plexus, that sticks very well to gelcoat, but who ever did it could have used a bit more as it leaked in a few places. So I used white 3M 4000/UV to calk along the tops of the windows. After a few years there was no adhesion to the plexiglass at all, and it was very slightly separated along the entire length on all of them. The gelcoat adhesion was still very good. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: PME via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 12:24 Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Hi, Nice discussion. I am looking to replace my window lenses soon too(likely go w/ 1/4” grey Lexan). I like the idea of using 3M’s VHB tape along with an adhesive/sealant. I have read somewhere (I lost the link) of folks using VHB with black 3M 4000/UV with great results. I have used 4000/UV in the past for deck hardware and hatch rebedding, and I like it’s ease of use.Has anyone use 4000/UV on lexan/plexi windows? I found the link below which provides a nice description of various marine sealants . It specifically lists 4000/UV as well suited for use with plastics. http://blog.dankim.com/2009/04/24/marine-sealants/ - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:20 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 15:59:28 -0600 From: Brent Driedger bren...@highspeedcrow.ca To: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Message-ID: 5fed87b6-6db3-4aa6-af3e-9d24071d3...@highspeedcrow.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Try this link to 3M VHB tapes. http://m.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/mAdhesives/Tapes/Products/?rt=msresultsPerPage=10Ntt=VHBx=0y=0 Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
The combination of puncture resistant windshields, along with strong bonding into the vehicle, makes them part of the passenger containment system and as such the engineering and assembly process both come under federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS) control. This means that quality control testing has to be done at regular and recorded intervals at all stages of the process. The adhesive commonly used is a moisture cured polyurethane (isocyanate) adhesive, and special primers are used both on the glass and on the painted surface of the car body. The backlites, although they are installed with exactly the same process and equipment, are not subject to the same scrutiny as a matter of regulatory requirement. I worked for a few years as a production supervisor in an automotive assembly plant, where the installation of windshields was my direct responsibility. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 12:50 Subject: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I have not used VHB tape on portlights but I have used it on many other applications, one was securing my GoPro mount to a slalom ski.. High vibrations, water, you name it. The stuff is nothing short of phenomenal. As for bonded port lights helping with structural integrity, auto manufacturers have been bonding windshields instead of using rubber strips for decades.. The main reason is to improve torsional rigidity. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Hi Paul, Enjoyed the link. The embedded tutorial on using Butyl Tape is excellent. I'll be using that on cleats, stanchions and tracks from now on. Thanks, Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md - Original Message - From: PME via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 12:24:10 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Hi, Nice discussion. I am looking to replace my window lenses soon too(likely go w/ 1/4” grey Lexan). I like the idea of using 3M’s VHB tape along with an adhesive/sealant. I have read somewhere (I lost the link) of folks using VHB with black 3M 4000/UV with great results. I have used 4000/UV in the past for deck hardware and hatch rebedding, and I like it’s ease of use. Has anyone use 4000/UV on lexan/plexi windows? I found the link below which provides a nice description of various marine sealants . It specifically lists 4000/UV as well suited for use with plastics. http://blog.dankim.com/2009/04/24/marine-sealants/ - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:20 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 15:59:28 -0600 From: Brent Driedger bren...@highspeedcrow.ca To: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com , cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Message-ID: 5fed87b6-6db3-4aa6-af3e-9d24071d3...@highspeedcrow.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Try this link to 3M VHB tapes. http://m.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/mAdhesives/Tapes/Products/?rt=msresultsPerPage=10Ntt=VHBx=0y=0 Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I'm always in favor of torsional rigidity!I might have to check this VHB tape out. Jake Jake Brodersen Midnight Mistress CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 12:50 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I have not used VHB tape on portlights but I have used it on many other applications, one was securing my GoPro mount to a slalom ski.. High vibrations, water, you name it. The stuff is nothing short of phenomenal. As for bonded port lights helping with structural integrity, auto manufacturers have been bonding windshields instead of using rubber strips for decades.. The main reason is to improve torsional rigidity. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
My auto windshield was replaced last year and the adhesive used was a Sika product similar to Sika 295UV, only with a faster curing time than the version we would by at a yacht shop. I used Sika 295 UV as the adhesive on our new cabin side ports 6 years ago.no complaints with this product. And I used the Sika 'Primer'..anyone using Sika 295 UV should use the 'Primer'.spend the extra few boat bucks and get the Primer. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-02-16 1:50 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List wrote: I have not used VHB tape on portlights but I have used it on many other applications, one was securing my GoPro mount to a slalom ski.. High vibrations, water, you name it. The stuff is nothing short of phenomenal. As for bonded port lights helping with structural integrity, auto manufacturers have been bonding windshields instead of using rubber strips for decades.. The main reason is to improve torsional rigidity. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I think the adhesive bond is still the weak link and likely the first part of the system to fail unless the glass has a defect of some sort in it Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have not used VHB tape on portlights but I have used it on many other applications, one was securing my GoPro mount to a slalom ski.. High vibrations, water, you name it. The stuff is nothing short of phenomenal. As for bonded port lights helping with structural integrity, auto manufacturers have been bonding windshields instead of using rubber strips for decades.. The main reason is to improve torsional rigidity. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Josh, I used the 3M 5952 VHB Tape: http://www.staples.com/3M-5952-VHB-Tape-Dark-Gray-3-4-inch-x-5-yds/product_946573 http://www.staples.com/3M-5952-VHB-Tape-Dark-Gray-3-4-inch-x-5-yds/product_946573?cmArea=REORDER All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 15, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: Edd, I googled 3m fuselage tape and couldn't cleary identify what product you used. Could you please enlighten me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 8, 2015 8:38 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com http://www.starshipsailing.com/ --- 914.332.4400 tel:914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 tel:914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Hi Edd, I like your method. Curious, if you used any other adhesive or fasteners in addition to the tape? Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md - Original Message - From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:37:04 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Josh, I used the 3M 5952 VHB Tape: http://www.staples.com/3M-5952-VHB-Tape-Dark-Gray-3-4-inch-x-5-yds/product_946573 All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log On Feb 15, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: Edd, I googled 3m fuselage tape and couldn't cleary identify what product you used. Could you please enlighten me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 8, 2015 8:38 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: blockquote We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: blockquote Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com /blockquote /blockquote ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Chuck, Only in a few spots, but that was mainly because I lost some patience in prepping the surface and it came up. I also added some silicone around the edges to make sure no water got in there. That also smoothed out the edges so nobody would snag or cut themselves. My crew is not allowed to bleed until after races are finished. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 16, 2015, at 10:13 AM, Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Edd, I like your method. Curious, if you used any other adhesive or fasteners in addition to the tape? Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:37:04 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Josh, I used the 3M 5952 VHB Tape: http://www.staples.com/3M-5952-VHB-Tape-Dark-Gray-3-4-inch-x-5-yds/product_946573 http://www.staples.com/3M-5952-VHB-Tape-Dark-Gray-3-4-inch-x-5-yds/product_946573?cmArea=REORDER All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 15, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com mailto:muckl...@gmail.com wrote: Edd, I googled 3m fuselage tape and couldn't cleary identify what product you used. Could you please enlighten me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 8, 2015 8:38 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com http://www.starshipsailing.com/ --- 914.332.4400 tel:914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 tel:914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I am preparing to under a window replacement forward hatch re-glaze and a hand rail replacement. So should I use the smoked glass or clear? and what kind of glass should be used? CC--Plastic (lexan), tempered glass, or regular glass? the glass in there now is all spider cracked and smoked in color. looks to be 1/4 thick no frames each of the longer windows have 8 small screws and the forward small windows have 4 screws. looks to be regular clear silicone. I have had a few small leaks but not many. Thanks for your help. On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Chuck, Only in a few spots, but that was mainly because I lost some patience in prepping the surface and it came up. I also added some silicone around the edges to make sure no water got in there. That also smoothed out the edges so nobody would snag or cut themselves. My crew is not allowed to bleed until after races are finished. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 16, 2015, at 10:13 AM, Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Edd, I like your method. Curious, if you used any other adhesive or fasteners in addition to the tape? Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md -- *From: *Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *To: *Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent: *Monday, February 16, 2015 9:37:04 AM *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Josh, I used the 3M 5952 VHB Tape: http://www.staples.com/3M-5952-VHB-Tape-Dark-Gray-3-4-inch-x-5-yds/product_946573 http://www.staples.com/3M-5952-VHB-Tape-Dark-Gray-3-4-inch-x-5-yds/product_946573?cmArea=REORDER All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 15, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: Edd, I googled 3m fuselage tape and couldn't cleary identify what product you used. Could you please enlighten me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 8, 2015 8:38 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com http://www.starshipsailing.com/ --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl's NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- *Best regards,* *Curtis McDaniel, * *CC 30-MK1 East Coast Lady* Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain http://eastcostlady.blogspot.com/ *cpt.b...@gmail.com bobhick...@rogers.com* * __/) * . ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Edd, I googled 3m fuselage tape and couldn't cleary identify what product you used. Could you please enlighten me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 8, 2015 8:38 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl's NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Josh, I have the exact item number at my office. Will circle back to you tomorrow All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 15, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: Edd, I googled 3m fuselage tape and couldn't cleary identify what product you used. Could you please enlighten me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 8, 2015 8:38 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Try this link to 3M VHB tapes. http://m.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/mAdhesives/Tapes/Products/?rt=msresultsPerPage=10Ntt=VHBx=0y=0 Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg Sent from my iPhone On Feb 15, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd, I googled 3m fuselage tape and couldn't cleary identify what product you used. Could you please enlighten me. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 8, 2015 8:38 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
No screws. Just some black and somewhat flexible adhesive. The rain channel? Yeah, impressive attention to detail. That guy Wes is awesome and he charges a small fraction of what I've heard most yards charge.. Gotta love those Georgia boys :-) I'll take some pictures this weekend / contact him-FrancoisSent from IBM Notes TravelerChuck S --- Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 --- From:Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.netTo:Jean-Francois J Rivard jfriv...@us.ibm.com, CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.comDate:Thu, Feb 12, 2015 11:40 PMSubject:Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41Hi Francois,Please get that information? The rain gutter sounds interesting. did he use screws?ChuckResolute1990 CC 34RBroad Creek, Magothy River, MdFrom: "Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List" cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com, "cenelson" cenel...@aol.comSent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:15:48 PMSubject: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41Hi Charlie, My 34+ were replaced a few years back (Same design as yours) and they were glued in place. It was done by the "Guru" on the lake and they are tight / waterproof after about 5 years.. I was told that it was a very difficult thing to do as there is a curve on the portlights. I was also told that he did it by using adhesive and using weights to hold it in place while the adhesive was curing. He did a really nice job and even made a "Rain gutter" indentation in the top bead for the water to be channelled down.. I can contact him to get the type of adhesive and more details on the process if you want Good Luck, Best regards, -Francois Rivard 1990 34+ "Take Five" Lake Lanier, GA___Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I went the Plexus route and I was very pleased with the results. The gun was air powered making it easy to use and the newer products have a better working time than the original stuff. I'm on 4 years and happy. This is my second attempt however. In the original job I think I squeezed too much goo out and the seal Failed later that year. I was excited to try the 3m double sided structural aviation tape but the method was untried at the time and I was concerned about the resins attacking the acrylic like 5200 will. Don't fear the Plexus. Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg Sent from my iPhone On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: For all the people on the list that have had some success with the Sika option, I’m with Rick: the original Plexus solution still seems to be the best option to me, so long as it’s done carefully and with the correct materials. This means that you need to use cast, not extruded acrylic for the lights, and it needs to be the proper thickness (3/8” for pretty much all of our boats). On my first CC, a 1981 30mkI, the original installation lasted until about 1997 before the windows started to leak; that’s sixteen years. On my current 1979 Landfall 38, the windows were incorrectly replaced by the former owner before I purchased her in 2005; he used 1/4” cheap acrylic, and it’s split in many places. When I replace them this year, I will be using a Plexus product and high-quality 3/8” acrylic, along with LifeSeal for the final edging around the cabin sides. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:40 AM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My windows were replaced by a local yard about 10-12 years ago before I was paying attention to this list. There appear to be screws involved whose heads I can see from the outside--probably screwed thru the windows to the fiberglass in the 'frame'--but I am not sure. Some of them are beginning to leak again and over the years I have seen some spitting of the fiberglass on the inside around the windows. I think this was a result of hull stresses while sailing. I have solved this with thickened epoxy and a pressure clamp to squeeze the splits together while the epoxy cured. My question for the list is if I decide the windows should be replaced again, should I bite the bullet and go with the Plexus/glue route or return to a glued and screwed solution, which the first repair seems to have been. Since the factory window installation began leaking early in the boats history (5-10 years), I am not sure the windows were installed with the best solution originally so returning to a similar fix seems at least counter-intuitive. Further, I am less interested in a 'pure, original solution' fix than a simple fix that works, which the original fix did for ~ 12 years. Since most of the repair cost is likely to be in the labor involved (not the cost of the windows), any solution will likely cost about the same. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 1995 CC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com; cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thu, Feb 12, 2015 9:22 am Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Dwight — if I might jump in here, my understanding is that the glued-in acrylic ports became a unified part of the cabintop structure, and stiffened the structure; NOT that they made the boat stiffer in terms of sailing characteristics. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 12, 2015, at 1:15 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Rick Is it really true that the designers at CC expected glued on acryllic ports to stiffen the whole boat Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Rick Is it really true that the designers at CC expected glued on acryllic ports to stiffen the whole boat Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Interesting question Dwight. The front windshield on my car is supposed to be an integral part of the car's safety accessories and yet it is glued in place by a Sika product. Sika is good enough for automobile insurance companies and the marine insurance companies probably don't care what we use to glue our windows in place. In the case of our CC 32, the Plexus harden like 'resin' and cracked as the boat flexed, thus causing the windows to leak. I had very little problem cutting them out when we removed them. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-02-12 3:15 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: Rick Is it really true that the designers at CC expected glued on acryllic ports to stiffen the whole boat Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, */Alianna/* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com http://www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 tel:914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 tel:914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Maybe, but the 80s was the infancy of finite element design - which one would want to use to properly evaluate the stiffening effects of rigid windows. Given that using computers for hull layout was new I really doubt that this is an engineered in property. Maybe Rob can comment on that? As a mechanical engineer I can say I've replaced my windows using Sika, and am happy with that decision. Graham Collins Secret Plans CC 35-III #11 On 2015-02-12 5:17 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List wrote: Engineers know stuff! sam :-) *From: *dwight veinot via CnC-List *Sent: *Thursday, February 12, 2015 12:15 PM *To: *Rick Brass; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *dwight veinot *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Rick Is it really true that the designers at CC expected glued on acryllic ports to stiffen the whole boat Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, */Alianna/* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com http://www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 tel:914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 tel:914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I used BoatLife 10 years ago on my frameless ports and nary a leak since then... David F. Risch 181 40 (401) 419-4650 (cell) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:39:00 -0500 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Just to add to others' experience with frameless fixed port lights, my Landfall 38 is a 1983 vintage and I have owned it since 1986. Since 1986 I made two port light replacements using 3/8-inch thick cast acrylic and plexus before making my last and final fix without Plexus (about 13 years ago). During the 19 years using Plexus, it seemed like I always had a leak somewhere in one of the four port lights (the two aft port lights most frequently). Sometimes, the Plexus' bond would break and other times the acrylic would crack and cause a leak. You could say that the Plexus-installed windows lasted 11.5 years each time on average but during most of that time there were leaks. The Plexus is very hard (and brittle) after it cures. It certainly sounds reasonable to me that flexing of the boat's structure causes these cracks to occur. I really think the reason my current window design works so well (leakproof for the last 13 years) is that the flexibility is being accommodated rather than resisted. My fix was not inexpensive and I did most of the work myself while living aboard. So, when thinking about Plexus-installed windows, how much of your service life was really leak-free? I think that is the important question to ask rather than the frequency of replacement. Bob Bob BoyerS/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230email: dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. --Kenneth Grahame ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Bob: For the sailing I do, if I have to choose from doing the window replacement job once with Sika or some other similar adhesive, and no more window leaks, versus any perceived extra structural integrity of my boat, I choose the 'no leak option' Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-02-12 4:39 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List wrote: Just to add to others' experience with frameless fixed port lights, my Landfall 38 is a 1983 vintage and I have owned it since 1986. Since 1986 I made two port light replacements using 3/8-inch thick cast acrylic and plexus before making my last and final fix without Plexus (about 13 years ago). During the 19 years using Plexus, it seemed like I always had a leak somewhere in one of the four port lights (the two aft port lights most frequently). Sometimes, the Plexus' bond would break and other times the acrylic would crack and cause a leak. You could say that the Plexus-installed windows lasted 11.5 years each time on average but during most of that time there were leaks. The Plexus is very hard (and brittle) after it cures. It certainly sounds reasonable to me that flexing of the boat's structure causes these cracks to occur. I really think the reason my current window design works so well (leakproof for the last 13 years) is that the flexibility is being accommodated rather than resisted. My fix was not inexpensive and I did most of the work myself while living aboard. So, when thinking about Plexus-installed windows, how much of your service life was really leak-free? I think that is the important question to ask rather than the frequency of replacement. Bob Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD 1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230 email: dainyr...@icloud.com mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com http://dainyrays.blogspot.com There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. --Kenneth Grahame ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Engineers know stuff! sam :-) From: dwight veinot via CnC-ListSent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 12:15 PMTo: Rick Brass; cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: dwight veinotSubject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41RickIs it really true that the designers at CC expected glued on acryllic ports to stiffen the whole boatDwight VeinotCC 35 MKII, AliannaHead of St. Margaret's Bay, NSd.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here.The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat.Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive.Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points.As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place.Rick BrassSent from my iPadOn Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result.All the best,Edd---Edd M. SchillayStarship EnterpriseNCC-1701-BCC 37+ | City Island, NYwww.StarshipSailing.com---914.332.4400 | Office914.774.9767 | Mobile---Sent via iPhone 6iPhone. iTypos. iApologizeOn Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/VOceanis(1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI:^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would "clamp" the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim?___Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com___Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Just to add to others' experience with frameless fixed port lights, my Landfall 38 is a 1983 vintage and I have owned it since 1986. Since 1986 I made two port light replacements using 3/8-inch thick cast acrylic and plexus before making my last and final fix without Plexus (about 13 years ago). During the 19 years using Plexus, it seemed like I always had a leak somewhere in one of the four port lights (the two aft port lights most frequently). Sometimes, the Plexus' bond would break and other times the acrylic would crack and cause a leak. You could say that the Plexus-installed windows lasted 11.5 years each time on average but during most of that time there were leaks. The Plexus is very hard (and brittle) after it cures. It certainly sounds reasonable to me that flexing of the boat's structure causes these cracks to occur. I really think the reason my current window design works so well (leakproof for the last 13 years) is that the flexibility is being accommodated rather than resisted. My fix was not inexpensive and I did most of the work myself while living aboard. So, when thinking about Plexus-installed windows, how much of your service life was really leak-free? I think that is the important question to ask rather than the frequency of replacement. Bob Bob Boyer S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD 1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230 email: dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. --Kenneth Grahame___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Well, I was using Finite Element Analysis in the early seventies; Cassion was an aeronautical engineer (I think) so he’d know how to do it. But you’re right, I doubt they got into that much detail back then. …but then again these are still pretty hot boats!!! sam :-) From: Graham Collins Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 3:51 PM To: Sam Salter, CnC Maybe, but the 80s was the infancy of finite element design - which one would want to use to properly evaluate the stiffening effects of rigid windows. Given that using computers for hull layout was new I really doubt that this is an engineered in property. Maybe Rob can comment on that? As a mechanical engineer I can say I've replaced my windows using Sika, and am happy with that decision. Graham Collins Secret Plans CC 35-III #11 On 2015-02-12 5:17 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List wrote: Engineers know stuff! sam :-) From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 12:15 PM To: Rick Brass; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Rick Is it really true that the designers at CC expected glued on acryllic ports to stiffen the whole boat Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
3M makes a product just for removing silicone residue. Acetone doesn't really work very well. Even with the 3M product, getting all the residue off is a fastidious process but essential if you are going to get anything else to stick. And as someone else said, don't even think of 5200. It won't stick to the window material. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rex Jennifer Delay via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 7:19 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 We have a relatively new to us 1985 41. The windows and hatches had been replaced by the previous owner. Hatches were done right, the side windows were bedded in silicone, not right. I had to re-bed one of them already but did not get all traces of the silicone off so it did not take. Need to do it again as soon as possible which will involve removing the window, scraping clean and then wiping the cabin side with acetone and re-bedding with 5200. The question is - there are no mechanical fastenings? Should I add screws every 4 or so or create some sort of method to press the windows in place while the 5200 sets? Anyone come up with the perfect jig to do this or is it better to add screws? Large custom bar clamps? Rex Jennifer Delay www. Ghostlake.com http://www.ghostlake.com/ www.ghostlakesailing.com http://www.ghostlakesailing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Hi Francois, Please get that information? The rain gutter sounds interesting. did he use screws? Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md - Original Message - From: Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com, cenelson cenel...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:15:48 PM Subject: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Hi Charlie, My 34+ were replaced a few years back (Same design as yours) and they were glued in place. It was done by the Guru on the lake and they are tight / waterproof after about 5 years.. I was told that it was a very difficult thing to do as there is a curve on the portlights. I was also told that he did it by using adhesive and using weights to hold it in place while the adhesive was curing. He did a really nice job and even made a Rain gutter indentation in the top bead for the water to be channelled down.. I can contact him to get the type of adhesive and more details on the process if you want Good Luck, Best regards, -Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Hi Charlie, My 34+ were replaced a few years back (Same design as yours) and they were glued in place. It was done by the Guru on the lake and they are tight / waterproof after about 5 years.. I was told that it was a very difficult thing to do as there is a curve on the portlights. I was also told that he did it by using adhesive and using weights to hold it in place while the adhesive was curing. He did a really nice job and even made a Rain gutter indentation in the top bead for the water to be channelled down.. I can contact him to get the type of adhesive and more details on the process if you want Good Luck, Best regards, -Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
My windows were replaced by a local yard about 10-12 years ago before I was paying attention to this list. There appear to be screws involved whose heads I can see from the outside--probably screwed thru the windows to the fiberglass in the 'frame'--but I am not sure. Some of them are beginning to leak again and over the years I have seen some spitting of the fiberglass on the inside around the windows. I think this was a result of hull stresses while sailing. I have solved this with thickened epoxy and a pressure clamp to squeeze the splits together while the epoxy cured. My question for the list is if I decide the windows should be replaced again, should I bite the bullet and go with the Plexus/glue route or return to a glued and screwed solution, which the first repair seems to have been. Since the factory window installation began leaking early in the boats history (5-10 years), I am not sure the windows were installed with the best solution originally so returning to a similar fix seems at least counter-intuitive. Further, I am less interested in a 'pure, original solution' fix than a simple fix that works, which the original fix did for ~ 12 years. Since most of the repair cost is likely to be in the labor involved (not the cost of the windows), any solution will likely cost about the same. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 1995 CC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com; cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thu, Feb 12, 2015 9:22 am Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Charlie A simple solution for a boat that already has screws? OK. The J/27 we had has a very simple window setup. Like many other systems on these boats it is simple design and easy to work with. The windows are literally screwed in place and bedded with silicone. If I detected a leak I would remove the window, clean up the old silicon and reinstall. Was a 15 minute procedure. Why couldn’t his work on the frameless windows on the 80’s CC models? Get new lexan/plexi or whatever and install with screws and silicon and never worry about the glue and clamps. I am serious with this question. It will not look as clean as the windows did when new because of the screws but it is a very simple solution and one that is easily fixed over time. My only concern would be in offshore situations where perhaps some strength is compromised Mike Persistence From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Nelson via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:41 AM To: rickbr...@earthlink.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; e...@schillay.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 My windows were replaced by a local yard about 10-12 years ago before I was paying attention to this list. There appear to be screws involved whose heads I can see from the outside--probably screwed thru the windows to the fiberglass in the 'frame'--but I am not sure. Some of them are beginning to leak again and over the years I have seen some spitting of the fiberglass on the inside around the windows. I think this was a result of hull stresses while sailing. I have solved this with thickened epoxy and a pressure clamp to squeeze the splits together while the epoxy cured. My question for the list is if I decide the windows should be replaced again, should I bite the bullet and go with the Plexus/glue route or return to a glued and screwed solution, which the first repair seems to have been. Since the factory window installation began leaking early in the boats history (5-10 years), I am not sure the windows were installed with the best solution originally so returning to a similar fix seems at least counter-intuitive. Further, I am less interested in a 'pure, original solution' fix than a simple fix that works, which the original fix did for ~ 12 years. Since most of the repair cost is likely to be in the labor involved (not the cost of the windows), any solution will likely cost about the same. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 1995 CC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.commailto:cenel...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Edd Schillay e...@schillay.commailto:e...@schillay.com; cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thu, Feb 12, 2015 9:22 am Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.comhttp://www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
For all the people on the list that have had some success with the Sika option, I’m with Rick: the original Plexus solution still seems to be the best option to me, so long as it’s done carefully and with the correct materials. This means that you need to use cast, not extruded acrylic for the lights, and it needs to be the proper thickness (3/8” for pretty much all of our boats). On my first CC, a 1981 30mkI, the original installation lasted until about 1997 before the windows started to leak; that’s sixteen years. On my current 1979 Landfall 38, the windows were incorrectly replaced by the former owner before I purchased her in 2005; he used 1/4” cheap acrylic, and it’s split in many places. When I replace them this year, I will be using a Plexus product and high-quality 3/8” acrylic, along with LifeSeal for the final edging around the cabin sides. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:40 AM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: My windows were replaced by a local yard about 10-12 years ago before I was paying attention to this list. There appear to be screws involved whose heads I can see from the outside--probably screwed thru the windows to the fiberglass in the 'frame'--but I am not sure. Some of them are beginning to leak again and over the years I have seen some spitting of the fiberglass on the inside around the windows. I think this was a result of hull stresses while sailing. I have solved this with thickened epoxy and a pressure clamp to squeeze the splits together while the epoxy cured. My question for the list is if I decide the windows should be replaced again, should I bite the bullet and go with the Plexus/glue route or return to a glued and screwed solution, which the first repair seems to have been. Since the factory window installation began leaking early in the boats history (5-10 years), I am not sure the windows were installed with the best solution originally so returning to a similar fix seems at least counter-intuitive. Further, I am less interested in a 'pure, original solution' fix than a simple fix that works, which the original fix did for ~ 12 years. Since most of the repair cost is likely to be in the labor involved (not the cost of the windows), any solution will likely cost about the same. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 1995 CC 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com; cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thu, Feb 12, 2015 9:22 am Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I have the aluminum frame windows on both my boats, which I consider to be less stylish but much more practical, so I'm basically just an interested onlooker to this discussion. But it seems to me a point made several years ago in a similar thread has been lost here. The frameless windows were glued into the deck/cabin structure and helped to stiffen it, which also helps to stiffen the whole boat. Plexus seems a right PITA to use, but it has lasted the better part of 30 years on our old boats. And the comments about damaging gel oat when removing old portlights speaks to its tenacity as an adhesive. Sika 295uv, and the 3M equivalent, are great adhesives and sealers. (And also a PITA to use. Don't even THINK about not using the primer.) I used Sika 295 on my rebuilt hatches, and it is great for car windshields (which are bedded in rubber so the window does not crack as the car body flexes) but it remains flexible. And from the previous discussions on the list I've gotten the impression that the hull and deck flexing leads to leaks in a few years, and polycarbonate portlights held in by screws tend to get cracks at the stress points. As I said, I have no real experience with the glued in portlight solutions and I'm happy with my simple, cheap, durable, but not stylish aluminum frames. I just wanted to remind the group about why the frameless portlights were glued in by CC in the first place. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2015, at 20:38, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I've been following this topic any time I see it come up - I have windows in need of replacement. I like the sailing anarchy suggestion - with coincides (fairly closely )with Don Casey's recommendation http://www.sailmagazine.com/boatworks/replacing-fixed-portlights He recommends double sided tape and Dow Corning 795 sealant. The one difference he suggests using just the double sided tape initially - then squeeze the sealant into the gap after the window is in place. Mark There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana On 2015-02-07 8:50 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote: Do NOT use 5200. Here is one way to do it: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/portlight_replace/page01.htm Here is another way to do it: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=133986hl= Here's another way: Clean all traces of silicone from the window and frame. This will take roughly forever. I used a product I got from an auto parts store called "Acryl-Safe" which did a good job. You could also try any number of citrus-based silicone removers. Clean off all the remover residue with Interlux Special Thinner 216. You could try rebedding without screws. I opted to use screws on 6" centers, 4" would have been better. Drill the holes slightly oversize and use a washer under the screw head. The sealant is the next step. I used Life Seal (NOT Life Caulk!) because it has good adhesive qualities and does not interact with the acrylic/Lexan (whatever you have). If I was starting from scratch, I would use Sikaflex 295 UV with the special primer and skip the screws. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 7 February 2015 at 16:18, Rex Jennifer Delay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a relatively new to us 1985 41. The windows and hatches had been replaced by the previous owner. Hatches were done right, the side windows were bedded in silicone, not right. I had to re-bed one of them already but did not get all traces of the silicone off so it did not take. Need to do it again as soon as possible which will involve removing the window, scraping clean and then wiping the cabin side with acetone and re-bedding with 5200. The question is – there are no mechanical fastenings? Should I add screws every 4” or so or create some sort of method to press the windows in place while the 5200 sets? Anyone come up with the perfect jig to do this or is it better to add screws? Large custom bar clamps? Rex Jennifer Delay www. Ghostlake.com www.ghostlakesailing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Rex: Below is a description of the window installation project on our CC 32 done some years agoI have posted this here several times so for the CC listers that have previously read this, use your 'DELETE' key. Trusting this might help and don't use 3M 5200. Our 1984 - 32 had original side cabin windows that leaked.no matter what I tried to stop the leaks, it didn't work. The last straw was when we put new upholstery on the boat in 2009I couldn't put up with leaks any more. So in the Spring 2010, while the boat was still under the white shrinkwrap cover, the decision was made to install new windows. I first asked some of the contractors around the boatyard what they would charge to do the job.most said they wouldn't do it because the windows don't have frames and/or screws.two problems for the contractorswithout frames and/or screws, the job is more time consuming and hard to provide an estimate of time, and second, without frames and/or screws, they can't guarantee the windows will stay in place. I must warn you, this is a time consuming job. Find a source for your new windowsmake sure they will cut the new ones for you.take your old ones to be used as templates. I used the same material (acrylic) and color as the old windows. To remove the old windows (OWs), I took a narrow putty knife and cut about an inch off the blade and then sharpened the blade with a file. From the inside, I cut out each window with the putty knife and a hammer. Three windows came out without incident.then shit happened on the port, forward window..I got the sides and bottom cut but I couldn't easily cut the top of that window. The original adhesive CC used was two part plexus and after 25 years it hardens like resin.as careful as I was I still managed to push the bottom of the window out causing the top to come loose and take a strip of gelcoat with it. Another repair job and another story, and another reason why the contractors don't like to provide an estimate on these jobs..you don't know for sure what you are getting yourself in for. OWs out...cleaned them up and took them to Sabic Polymer to have new windows cut.same thickness, material, color. The new windows (NWs) will have paper on both sidesdon't remove the paper. Now to clean up the framesthe prep is very importantI used a drummel tool with a fine bit to remove most of the old adhesive, then a palm sander, then hand sanded. Filled any imperfections in the frame with polyster resin bought at an automotive store. When the frames are cleaned, it is time to place the NWs into them (dry, no adhesive) to determine the actual fit. Place each NW into its respective frame and from the inside, draw a line with a marker along the inside of the frame onto the paper on the NW. You will need to have someone hold the NW from the outside or have the NW braced...I will get to the bracing shortly. The inside paper along the line must be cut from the window with a razor blade or sharp utility knife. It is this part on the NW that will be glued to the frame. I repeat, it is a slow and labor intensive job.patience is required. When the inside paper along the line has been cut and removed, there will be about an inch of NW exposed..rough up this exposed glass with sand paper. With a good quality masking tape, tape the frames both inside and outside...do a good job with this as it is important for cleanup. Also have plenty of rags for cleanup and a solvent like Varsol.if you use Sika as the adhesive, it is black and messy. Now you are ready to begin installing the NWs. I researched what adhesive to use and I went with Sikaflex 295 UV and if you choose this as well, make sure you get the Sikaflex primer.it is expensive, but don't, I repeat, don't do this without using the Sika primer. Two tubes of Sika 295 will be sufficient..I had both tubes opened, each in a caulking gun.one tube I had the end cut to produce a 'triangle bead'.the second tube had the normal small bead. Take your Sika primer and apply to one frame at a time..then apply the primer to the NW where you cut the paper from. Read the instructions carefully and watch the time between applying the primer and then the adhesive..I think you should wait about 10 to 20 minutes maximum. Take the caulking gun with the triangle bead and apply liberally to the inside of the NW.then take the second gun and apply a bead of Sika all along the 90 deg. angle of the frame. Use lots of adhesive.when you fit the NW into the frame, you want adhesive coming out all around the window/frame.as such, there will be lots of adhesive and hopefully no voids between the NW and frame. I did not use spacers between the window and frame. I know it is recommended, I actually had the spacers but thought against it. For me, it was just another place for problems to occur down the road. Just make sure you use lots of
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
I did add screws and used the sikaflex UV with spacers. Screw holes in the window are one drill bit size larger than the screws. My prior boat (O'Day) had the screws from the factory. Did it 5 years ago. No leaks or cracks. Tom O'Keeffe Bridie Mae 29-2 Douglaston, NY Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
agent The key for these is to prevent UV degradation. They all recommend using window material that prevents UV light getting through, or to paint the window exterior to prevent UV. I personally prefer the Sika for its higher strength characteristics. Kind of like sealing an automobile windshield. Also have personal experiences of several other CC owners in the area - all with good results using these sealers / adhesive. Let it flex, let it expand and contract and all is well. You can still remove it if needed without an act of Congress Cheers John Maryann Read Legacy III 1982 CC 34 Noank, CT John and Maryann Legacy III 1982 CC 34 Noank, CT From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 7:51 PM To: Rex Jennifer Delay; 1 CnC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Do NOT use 5200. Here is one way to do it: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/portlight_replace/page01.htm Here is another way to do it: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=133986 http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=133986hl= hl= Here's another way: Clean all traces of silicone from the window and frame. This will take roughly forever. I used a product I got from an auto parts store called Acryl-Safe which did a good job. You could also try any number of citrus-based silicone removers. Clean off all the remover residue with Interlux Special Thinner 216. You could try rebedding without screws. I opted to use screws on 6 centers, 4 would have been better. Drill the holes slightly oversize and use a washer under the screw head. The sealant is the next step. I used Life Seal (NOT Life Caulk!) because it has good adhesive qualities and does not interact with the acrylic/Lexan (whatever you have). If I was starting from scratch, I would use Sikaflex 295 UV with the special primer and skip the screws. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 7 February 2015 at 16:18, Rex Jennifer Delay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a relatively new to us 1985 41. The windows and hatches had been replaced by the previous owner. Hatches were done right, the side windows were bedded in silicone, not right. I had to re-bed one of them already but did not get all traces of the silicone off so it did not take. Need to do it again as soon as possible which will involve removing the window, scraping clean and then wiping the cabin side with acetone and re-bedding with 5200. The question is – there are no mechanical fastenings? Should I add screws every 4” or so or create some sort of method to press the windows in place while the 5200 sets? Anyone come up with the perfect jig to do this or is it better to add screws? Large custom bar clamps? Rex Jennifer Delay www. Ghostlake.com http://www.ghostlake.com/ www.ghostlakesailing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Just a note, a vibrating saw with a flexible caulk cutting blade might make port removal easier. Dennis C. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 8, 2015, at 9:03 AM, Robert Abbott via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Rex: Below is a description of the window installation project on our CC 32 done some years agoI have posted this here several times so for the CC listers that have previously read this, use your 'DELETE' key. Trusting this might help and don't use 3M 5200. Our 1984 - 32 had original side cabin windows that leaked.no matter what I tried to stop the leaks, it didn't work. The last straw was when we put new upholstery on the boat in 2009I couldn't put up with leaks any more. So in the Spring 2010, while the boat was still under the white shrinkwrap cover, the decision was made to install new windows. I first asked some of the contractors around the boatyard what they would charge to do the job.most said they wouldn't do it because the windows don't have frames and/or screws.two problems for the contractorswithout frames and/or screws, the job is more time consuming and hard to provide an estimate of time, and second, without frames and/or screws, they can't guarantee the windows will stay in place. I must warn you, this is a time consuming job. Find a source for your new windowsmake sure they will cut the new ones for you.take your old ones to be used as templates. I used the same material (acrylic) and color as the old windows. To remove the old windows (OWs), I took a narrow putty knife and cut about an inch off the blade and then sharpened the blade with a file. From the inside, I cut out each window with the putty knife and a hammer. Three windows came out without incident.then shit happened on the port, forward window..I got the sides and bottom cut but I couldn't easily cut the top of that window. The original adhesive CC used was two part plexus and after 25 years it hardens like resin.as careful as I was I still managed to push the bottom of the window out causing the top to come loose and take a strip of gelcoat with it. Another repair job and another story, and another reason why the contractors don't like to provide an estimate on these jobs..you don't know for sure what you are getting yourself in for. OWs out...cleaned them up and took them to Sabic Polymer to have new windows cut.same thickness, material, color. The new windows (NWs) will have paper on both sidesdon't remove the paper. Now to clean up the framesthe prep is very importantI used a drummel tool with a fine bit to remove most of the old adhesive, then a palm sander, then hand sanded. Filled any imperfections in the frame with polyster resin bought at an automotive store. When the frames are cleaned, it is time to place the NWs into them (dry, no adhesive) to determine the actual fit. Place each NW into its respective frame and from the inside, draw a line with a marker along the inside of the frame onto the paper on the NW. You will need to have someone hold the NW from the outside or have the NW braced...I will get to the bracing shortly. The inside paper along the line must be cut from the window with a razor blade or sharp utility knife. It is this part on the NW that will be glued to the frame. I repeat, it is a slow and labor intensive job.patience is required. When the inside paper along the line has been cut and removed, there will be about an inch of NW exposed..rough up this exposed glass with sand paper. With a good quality masking tape, tape the frames both inside and outside...do a good job with this as it is important for cleanup. Also have plenty of rags for cleanup and a solvent like Varsol.if you use Sika as the adhesive, it is black and messy. Now you are ready to begin installing the NWs. I researched what adhesive to use and I went with Sikaflex 295 UV and if you choose this as well, make sure you get the Sikaflex primer.it is expensive, but don't, I repeat, don't do this without using the Sika primer. Two tubes of Sika 295 will be sufficient..I had both tubes opened, each in a caulking gun.one tube I had the end cut to produce a 'triangle bead'.the second tube had the normal small bead. Take your Sika primer and apply to one frame at a time..then apply the primer to the NW where you cut the paper from. Read the instructions carefully and watch the time between applying the primer and then the adhesive..I think you should wait about 10 to 20 minutes maximum. Take the caulking gun with the triangle bead and apply liberally to the inside of the NW.then take the second gun and apply a bead of Sika all along the 90 deg. angle of the frame. Use lots of adhesive.when you fit the NW into the frame, you want adhesive coming out
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Still a fan of double-sided butyl tape. . -Original Message- From: John and Maryann Read via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: 2015-02-08 12:02 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 Rex This is a topic of MUCH discussion over the years. Suggest you check the photoalbum archives and you will get a lot of good information. We went the Sikaflex 295 route in 2006, followed the instructions to a “T” and no problems so far. Removing the old windows was a bear and involved a fair amount of gel coat damage which involved a lot of effort to repair. My thinking was I never wanted to go through that again so stayed away from the Plexus system. My research also indicated the adhesive industry had progressed a lot from when the boat was builtUsed ¼ inch rubber spacers to ensure sufficient depth of sealer. Drilled holes and used screws at each corner to hold in place while it cured (at least a week and is sensitive the heat and humidity). Removed the screws and filled with sealer. Be sure to well tape any adjoining surface as the sealer will squeeze out during installation and you do not want it to contact any adjoining surface as you will never get the black stain out. Checked my own archives and offer the following for your info. Hope this helps and best of luck John Maryann others, Different strokes for different folks. I went the Sika 295 UV route. It was easy to work with, requires no special applicator and has a longer open time is easy to clean up afterwards and costs less. Make sure that you use it as directed. It must be used in conjunction with their cleaner and primer. The primer is formulated to form a tenacious bond with the acrylic and fiberglass (I specifically verified with their tech rep that it would also bond with epoxy, since that is what I used to repair and fair the window recess). The 295 UV polyurethane forms a tenacious bond to the primed surfaces. You will not get a good bond to the acrylic and fiberglass if you don't use the primer. The thing that convinced me to use this method was that after doing research on this list, it appears that after using the Plexus solution ther were people who didn't get it quite right and still had small leaks. They were so daunted and at the thought of breaking the plexus bond perhaps the acrylic and cost and hassle that none of them redid the repair. If you have to redo a Sika UV bonded window, it will be much easier. I don't really buy the structural argument either. My window just pushed out. It had surely not been structurally bonded for many years, but the cabintop has not collapsed, nor had I ever noticed it flex when walking on it and I am not a small guy. There is a general opinion on this list that you should almost never bond anything with 3m 5200 because almost every job will need to be redone at some point and if you used 5200 you are making it harder (if not impossible) to redo in the future. I apply this same philosophy to bonding the portlights. Don't do something that makes this almost impossible to redo. I have added a few pictures of the primer painted on to the window and recess to the [ http://www.user.firstclass.com/~eric/Arioso/Log%20Months/April%202005 ]April 2005 log page on my site. Here is an excerpy from the March 2005 log page which contains the details of some tips that the Sika Tech Rep. gave me. I talked with Rick the Tech. Rep. from Sikaflex on the phone. He had the following advice about using the Sikaflex 295-UV system. The product numbers in Canada are different for some of the components. The Primer is 209N, the Cleaner is 205, The adhesive sealant is still 295-UV. The working time of the 295-UV is about 20 minutes.Try and make the bead about as deep as the mortise. Place the bead where it will meet the flat of the acrylic. Match sticks are fine as spacers. There are no problems in using this product with epoxy. When caulking the outside seam, push the caulking gun along, don't pull it. Smooth the seam with a gloved finger dipped in a bucket of water with about four drops of dish soap in it. -- Eric Haberfellner 1979 CC 34 Arioso National Yacht Club Toronto Ontario, Canada 43° 37.9' N, 079° 24.4' W http://www.user.firstclass.com/~Eric/Arioso CnC Email List cnc_l...@cnc-yachts.com on Friday, January 27, 2006 at 10:28 PM -0500 wrote: Different schools of thought - go the plexus route or the soft sealer / bond route?? Many on the list prefer the Plexus citing the added benefits of structural bonding. I find that hard to accept as my boat and many other CC's in the area have replaced windows where the old ones were not well bonded at all so not providing any structural strength and with no apparent issues. Leaks, yes but no structure issues. Hunter, Sabre, Catalina, Tartan and CC OEM as well as Select Plastics all use one of three comparable soft sealer
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
That won’t work on the frameless windows; only the aluminum-framed ones on the earlier boats. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 1:19 PM, John Irvin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Still a fan of double-sided butyl tape. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App-Original Message-From: cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com,john.ir...@rogers.comCc: Sent: 2015-02-08 14:33:35 GMTSubject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41That wont work on the frameless windows; only the aluminum-framed ones on the earlier boats. Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/VOceanis(1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI:^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 1:19 PM, John Irvin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:Still a fan of double-sided butyl tape.___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 6:45 PM, John Read via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App -Original Message- From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com,john.ir...@rogers.com Cc: Sent: 2015-02-08 14:33:35 GMT Subject: Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 That won’t work on the frameless windows; only the aluminum-framed ones on the earlier boats. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 1:19 PM, John Irvin via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Still a fan of double-sided butyl tape. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
We have the frameless windows and did the replacement last Spring. We used 3M fuselage tape - and although the prep was a lot of work, we are very pleased with the end result. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: That might work; but butyl’s NOT an adhesive, so you would definitely need the screws/bolts. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Gary Zuehlke via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Would the butyl tape work on frameless windows that were attached by screws? What about bolts all the way through to some nice wood trim that would clamp the cabin top sides between the windows and interior trim? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
The Get-A-Grip suction cups (also used to handle and install glass such as windshields) are reported to work well. Rig a tensioner inside the boat. Sometimes from one side to the other. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 7, 2015 7:18 PM, Rex Jennifer Delay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a relatively new to us 1985 41. The windows and hatches had been replaced by the previous owner. Hatches were done right, the side windows were bedded in silicone, not right. I had to re-bed one of them already but did not get all traces of the silicone off so it did not take. Need to do it again as soon as possible which will involve removing the window, scraping clean and then wiping the cabin side with acetone and re-bedding with 5200. The question is - there are no mechanical fastenings? Should I add screws every 4 or so or create some sort of method to press the windows in place while the 5200 sets? Anyone come up with the perfect jig to do this or is it better to add screws? Large custom bar clamps? Rex Jennifer Delay www. Ghostlake.com http://www.ghostlake.com/ www.ghostlakesailing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
We have a relatively new to us 1985 41. The windows and hatches had been replaced by the previous owner. Hatches were done right, the side windows were bedded in silicone, not right. I had to re-bed one of them already but did not get all traces of the silicone off so it did not take. Need to do it again as soon as possible which will involve removing the window, scraping clean and then wiping the cabin side with acetone and re-bedding with 5200. The question is - there are no mechanical fastenings? Should I add screws every 4 or so or create some sort of method to press the windows in place while the 5200 sets? Anyone come up with the perfect jig to do this or is it better to add screws? Large custom bar clamps? Rex Jennifer Delay www. Ghostlake.com http://www.ghostlake.com/ www.ghostlakesailing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Do NOT use 5200. Here is one way to do it: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/portlight_replace/page01.htm Here is another way to do it: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=133986hl= Here's another way: Clean all traces of silicone from the window and frame. This will take roughly forever. I used a product I got from an auto parts store called Acryl-Safe which did a good job. You could also try any number of citrus-based silicone removers. Clean off all the remover residue with Interlux Special Thinner 216. You could try rebedding without screws. I opted to use screws on 6 centers, 4 would have been better. Drill the holes slightly oversize and use a washer under the screw head. The sealant is the next step. I used Life Seal (NOT Life Caulk!) because it has good adhesive qualities and does not interact with the acrylic/Lexan (whatever you have). If I was starting from scratch, I would use Sikaflex 295 UV with the special primer and skip the screws. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 7 February 2015 at 16:18, Rex Jennifer Delay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: We have a relatively new to us 1985 41. The windows and hatches had been replaced by the previous owner. Hatches were done right, the side windows were bedded in silicone, not right. I had to re-bed one of them already but did not get all traces of the silicone off so it did not take. Need to do it again as soon as possible which will involve removing the window, scraping clean and then wiping the cabin side with acetone and re-bedding with 5200. The question is – there are no mechanical fastenings? Should I add screws every 4” or so or create some sort of method to press the windows in place while the 5200 sets? Anyone come up with the perfect jig to do this or is it better to add screws? Large custom bar clamps? Rex Jennifer Delay www. Ghostlake.com http://www.ghostlake.com/ www.ghostlakesailing.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
