RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Matthew Langham]

>>
> We give help. *Not* complete solutions. We are not paid for it, it's
> all free help.

Yes.  If you want commecial support for Cocoon, get commecial support
for cocoon.
<<

We provide commercial support for Cocoon - and guess what happens when
people contact us:

Them: "We are interested in support for Cocoon"
Us: "We can provide that at xxx ?/$"
Them: "You mean I will have to pay? But Cocoon is open source!"
Them: "".

I am not saying this is always the case - but it is quite common.

Matthew

--
Open Source Group   Cocoon { Consulting, Training, Projects }
=
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Tel:+49-5251-1581-30  [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.s-und-n.de
-
Cocoon book:
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/needacake-20
=



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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Matthew Langham]

A few comments on various raised points:

> 3) Serious problems (hours lost) upgrading from 2.0 to 2.0.2 - looking
> at the change logs for potential hints at what was necessary was a
> non-starter.

Changes between releases must be documented so that the migration is a
painless as _possible_. But if 2.0 provides what is needed then perhaps
upgrading is not always the best idea. We don't upgrade all our production
installations of Cocoon each time there is a new release. We have Cocoon
based sites that are happily running a pre-2.0 version of Cocoon.

> this will be since there have been significant changes (forms and
> authentication system to just name a few at the feature level) since
> those books have gone to publishing.
>

Unfortunately this is _always_ the case. We finished our book in March (!)
and the printing process is such that it just takes that long before the
book hits the shelves. There is nothing we (as the authors) can do about it
(apart from preventing new Cocoon releases :-)). On the other hand we
decided to include a CD containing a defined version of Cocoon so that the
details in the book match the software. The concepts have not changed
between 2.0 and 2.0.x - but things have been added.

Matthew

--
Open Source Group   Cocoon { Consulting, Training, Projects }
=
Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
Tel:+49-5251-1581-30  [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.s-und-n.de
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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[John Austin]

On Thursday 27 June 2002 05:26 pm, you wrote:
> I understand the complaints and agree with many of them, but I think
> that they are somewhat abstract or ambiguous.
>
> may you detail them so that they can be solved?

Ok. Where is the documentation for Pipeline Components ?

Where is an in-depth description of each type of G enerator ?

> it would be very helpful for all of us.
>
> Thanks to all the contributors to the cocoon project, it is a great
> product, but
> remember that one of the principles of programming is being humble to
> accept that things can be improved.
> Regards
>
> for example
> Documentation is scarce [ what part is scarce? all of it?

There is no depth to the documentation. One doesn't have to go very far 
to run out of documentation.

> XSP? ] Documentation is outdated   [the same]
> few examples  [which functionality needs more
> examples urgently?]

The Tutorial. How do I write a simple data-base backed application ?

> stabilization [any comments? ]
> etc

As I said earlier, it feels like there is a stampede to generate 
features and no discipline to complete the existing project. I suspect 
that this is due to personality traits and intellectual capabilities of 
some of the developers. In my career, I have encountered many 
superlative individuals. A small number of these have immense 
capacities for rote memorization. This is a distinct ability of some 
individuals and is as great a gift as abstact reasoning and other 
intellectual skills. Unfortunately, gifted individuals often fail to 
realize that half of us are below average in everything ;-). Hell, 
we're all below average in something.

Anyway, I have seen a lot of code written by genius-level people who 
fail to understand that many of us do not memorize well. 

The documentation is as important as (more important than) the code 
because nothing gets widely accepted unless it is understandable. Look 
at Perl as an example. Larry had some weird ideas and implemented them. 
These didn't hold the language back BECAUSE the documentation was 
excellent. Now Cocoon has lots of new ideas but it lacks explanation 
through documentation. The FAQ ... lets not go there ... I can never 
even FIND an FAQ  ...

The slope of the learning curve is steep and there is nothing to hold 
on to. When you do find a hand-hold, it breaks off!

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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Matthew Langham]

This is a VERY interesting thread because it shows that Cocoon has left the
"developer-guru" level and is now expanding into areas where "normal"
users/developers are trying to grasp exactly what Cocoon is and what it can
do for you.

So we need to take the criticsm seriously - even though those that have been
around Cocoon for longer may not understand why the person is having those
problems. Just as a native English speaker may not understand why others
find it hard to learn the language.

I will comment on a couple of points in new threads.

Matthew

--
Open Source Group   Cocoon { Consulting, Training, Projects }
=
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Tel:+49-5251-1581-30  [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.s-und-n.de
-
Cocoon book:
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/needacake-20
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Re: Please help with instalation

[Brian Blakeley]

Boris,

A quick and easy answer might be to try your build with JDK 1.3 as there are
complications with 1.4 and the database connections.

HTH

Brian

- Original Message -
From: "Boris Lipsman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Boris Lipsman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:24 AM
Subject: Please help with instalation


>
>  Any help is appreciated on advance...
>  I am trying to install cocoon on Linux machine that has JDK 1.4, Tomcat
> 3.3, Apache 1.3
>
>  When I am trying to  build COCOON by running ./build.sh , I am getting
> number of errors such as:
>
>   Compiling 752 source files to
> /home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/classes
>
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
> OraAddAction.java:53: package oracle.jdbc does not exist
> import oracle.jdbc.OracleResultSet;
>^
>
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
> OraAddAction.java:54: package oracle.sql does not exist
> import oracle.sql.BLOB;
>   ^
>
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
> OraAddAction.java:55: package oracle.sql does not exist
> import oracle.sql.CLOB;
>   ^
>
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
> OraAddAction.java:187: cannot resolve symbol
> symbol  : class OracleResultSet
> location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
> OracleResultSet set = (OracleResultSet)
> LOBstatement.executeQuery();
> ^
>
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
> OraAddAction.java:187: cannot resolve symbol
> symbol  : class OracleResultSet
> location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
> OracleResultSet set = (OracleResultSet)
> LOBstatement.executeQuery();
>^
>
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
> OraAddAction.java:204: cannot resolve symbol
> symbol  : class CLOB
> location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
> CLOB ascii = set.getCLOB(index);
> ^
>
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
> OraAddAction.java:217: cannot resolve symbol
> symbol  : class BLOB
> location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
> BLOB binary = set.getBLOB(index);
> ^
> 7 errors
>
> BUILD FAILED
>
> /home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build.xml:925: Compile failed, messages
> should have been provided.
>
>
>

> **
>
>  Apparentlly the oracle.sql and oracle.jdbc  packages are not visible
during
>
>
>  I do not have any problems when I am trying to compile my java sources
> through the javac
>
>
>  thanks a lot again for your help
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


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Books on Cocoon

[Alex McLintock]

Andrew Oliver wrote:
>There are MULTIPLE books coming out on Cocoon, some by its very developers 
>others by great folks like Conrad D'Cruz.  In the next few months, such 
>things will be clearer.



I'd appreciate reviews for my website if people get these books. We should 
be getting a review copy of at least one of them, but I don't have time or 
the energy to review them all. URL below















http://news.DiverseBooks.com





Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites 
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software.


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Please help with instalation

[Boris Lipsman]

 Any help is appreciated on advance... 
 I am trying to install cocoon on Linux machine that has JDK 1.4, Tomcat
3.3, Apache 1.3

 When I am trying to  build COCOON by running ./build.sh , I am getting
number of errors such as:

  Compiling 752 source files to
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/classes
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
OraAddAction.java:53: package oracle.jdbc does not exist
import oracle.jdbc.OracleResultSet;
   ^
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
OraAddAction.java:54: package oracle.sql does not exist
import oracle.sql.BLOB;
  ^
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
OraAddAction.java:55: package oracle.sql does not exist
import oracle.sql.CLOB;
  ^
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
OraAddAction.java:187: cannot resolve symbol
symbol  : class OracleResultSet  
location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
OracleResultSet set = (OracleResultSet)
LOBstatement.executeQuery();
^
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
OraAddAction.java:187: cannot resolve symbol
symbol  : class OracleResultSet  
location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
OracleResultSet set = (OracleResultSet)
LOBstatement.executeQuery();
   ^
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
OraAddAction.java:204: cannot resolve symbol
symbol  : class CLOB  
location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
CLOB ascii = set.getCLOB(index);
^
/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/acting/
OraAddAction.java:217: cannot resolve symbol
symbol  : class BLOB  
location: class org.apache.cocoon.acting.OraAddAction
BLOB binary = set.getBLOB(index);
^
7 errors

BUILD FAILED

/home/blipsman/cocoon/xml-cocoon2/build.xml:925: Compile failed, messages
should have been provided.



**

 Apparentlly the oracle.sql and oracle.jdbc  packages are not visible during


 I do not have any problems when I am trying to compile my java sources
through the javac


 thanks a lot again for your help


 
 

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Re: Unexpected behavior with imported stylesheets

[Peter Royal]

On Thursday 27 June 2002 09:14 pm, Phil wrote:
> There was a thread about this some time back and I believe that it's on
> a to-do list somewhere. Is anyone at apache able to confirm this?
>
> Your 'touch' workaround is the only solution that I know of at this time.
>
> Anyone have any advances on this?

You are correct. There was a thread, its on a TODO, but nothing yet.
-pete

-- 
peter royal -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Unexpected behavior with imported stylesheets

[Phil]

Imported stylesheets are not checked for modification and automatically 
rebuilt.

There was a thread about this some time back and I believe that it's on 
a to-do list somewhere. Is anyone at apache able to confirm this?

Your 'touch' workaround is the only solution that I know of at this time.

Anyone have any advances on this?

On Friday, June 28, 2002, at 10:54 AM, Robert Bourdeau wrote:

> Has anyone encountered this problem? Maybe it's not a problem,
> but a feature!
>
> I'm experimenting with aggregation, and the decomposition of
> stylesheets. When I change an "imported" stylesheet, it's not
> being applied by Cocoon until the "importing" stylesheet
> is changed.
>
> Environment:
>   Tomcat 4.0.1
>   Cocoon version 2.0.2-dev
>   JRE 1.3.1
>
> I have a pipeline that looks like this:
>
>
>  
>   
>   
>  
>
>  
>  
>
>
> The file aggregateit.xsl looks something like this:
>
> 
>   xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform";>
>
> 
> 
>
> 
>   blah blah requiring something from part1core.xsl
>   blah blah requiring something from part2core.xsl
> 
> 
> 
>
>
>
> Now, if I change part1core.xsl, the changes are not
> showing up in the output of my aggregateit pipeline.
> But if I just "touch" aggregateit.xsl, the changes in part1core.xsl
> show up.
>
> I haven't looked at the Cocoon code, but I have my suspicions about
> why this happens. My question is, is this the intended behavior?
> Maybe importing stylesheets isn't a good idea?
>
> Regards,
>
> --- Bob
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
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Unexpected behavior with imported stylesheets

[Robert Bourdeau]

Has anyone encountered this problem? Maybe it's not a problem,
but a feature!

I'm experimenting with aggregation, and the decomposition of 
stylesheets. When I change an "imported" stylesheet, it's not 
being applied by Cocoon until the "importing" stylesheet
is changed.

Environment:
Tomcat 4.0.1
Cocoon version 2.0.2-dev
JRE 1.3.1

I have a pipeline that looks like this:

   
 
  
  
 
 
 
 
   

The file aggregateit.xsl looks something like this:


http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform";>





blah blah requiring something from part1core.xsl
blah blah requiring something from part2core.xsl






Now, if I change part1core.xsl, the changes are not
showing up in the output of my aggregateit pipeline.
But if I just "touch" aggregateit.xsl, the changes in part1core.xsl
show up.

I haven't looked at the Cocoon code, but I have my suspicions about
why this happens. My question is, is this the intended behavior?
Maybe importing stylesheets isn't a good idea? 

Regards,

--- Bob


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Don't give up. The battle is worth the results.

[Phil]

> Yes.  If you want commecial support for Cocoon, get commecial support 
> for cocoon.

In Australia, Spark Digital are providing commercial support for Cocoon 
and re-writing all the documentation to fit in with a MaxOSX IDE they're 
developing which makes use of cocoon as well as several other open 
source projects.

There are also a series of conferences from July 11 through 18 all over 
Sydney that will be presenting XML and XSLT using cocoon, and informal 
workshops for problem solving. Better yet they're free! ...in keeping 
with open source :) There are enough big name sponsors showing up to 
give it a MacWorld feel.

I'm hoping that enough aussie cocoon users will come along so we can 
help to support cocoon and xml developments here in oz.

I'll dig up the brochure and post times and dates if anyone is 
interested.

I've just finished working on the Val Morgan web site which is now a 
live cocoon 2 project:

http://www.valmorgan.com.au/

It makes use of almost every component within cocoon and will soon be 
internationalised. (ie native language and local information versions 
for each country.

Anyone who has got to this stage with an open source project knows that 
the documentation is really bad.  Not just cocoon's documentation, but 
$100 books written by profiteers that contain little, if any, 
information.

This is normal for this stage of a development - commercial or open 
source. I've spent thousands on commercial software with useless 
documentation.

It's very hard to pioneer emerging technology and more often than not 
the big, slow, crappy, bastard of a class library just wont come to the 
party. However, in my case the problem has always been user stupidity - 
without exception.

I like to think it's the stupidity of the "would-be" technical writers 
that put together the documentation I don't understand however, when I 
finally do understand what I'm doing, I re-read the crappy documentation 
and find that is does kinda mean what it says. It just does it really 
poorly. Developers are not often good technical writers because they 
assume far too much. Good copywriters are not often good technical 
writers.

A good technical writer, these days is hard to find. :)

But don't give up. The increased speed of web application construction, 
the ease of extending and maintaining web applications that take 
advantage of cocoon, and the happy customers that result, far outweigh 
the hair-pulling, aging, machine destroying experience of learning 
cocoon.

Thanks,

Phil

PS Doesn't big, slow, and crappy simply refer to anything running in 
Java? We really need a Smalltalk cocoon for serious players. Anyone up 
for it?


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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Andrew C. Oliver]

>
>> 2) Documentation is not usefull - sorry.  I've tried and tried.  The 
>> closest it has come to being useful is that after I've spent hours on 
>> something and asked questions on the mail lists I have been able to 
>> go back to it and say "oh.. that's what they meant"
>
>
> What documents were not helpful in what cases?
> What couldn't you find?
> How did you search for it?

I disagree, the documentation is in fact inadequate.

>> 4) Generally helpful but inconsistant responses from the mail lists. 
>> You should seriously consider joining the two lists as all it is 
>> doing right now is making me have to search both lists for everything 
>> that i'm looking for.  Many of the questions were answered in a way 
>> which built character but were much too cryptic to be helpful to 
>> anyone who comes later.  (I'm sure this is because the really 
>> knowledgeable people are spending too much time answering e-mails).
>
>
> We give help. *Not* complete solutions. We are not paid for it, it's 
> all free help.

Yes.  If you want commecial support for Cocoon, get commecial support 
for cocoon.

>
>> 2) I don't have time to read the source code - not because I can't or 
>> won't from some misplaced belief that it shouldn't be necessary - 
>> because I don't believe it would be time well spent - too much of a 
>> lack of basic doco to make it worth the time.
>
>
> Sorry but I don't get it.
> We have *tons* of documentation. But you just gotta learn ;-)

You're both wrong.  From his part he must realize this is participatory 
software.  Understand your role, you're not a customer, you're
a:

1. Beta Tester
2. Developer
3. Documentor

of the software.  And ken is wrong, the documentation is in fact VERY 
lacking.

If you'd rather have a black box where you make phone calls and someone 
jumps, then you can pay someone and use Cocoon, or you can just blow 
some serious coin and get a commercial solution.  

-Andy


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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Andrew C. Oliver]

I'm not saying there aren't issues.  I'm saying his attitude is wrong.   
You pay for this by participating.  If
the issue was unknown this would be valuable, but this issue is known. 
 Help fix it or accept it.  Or fund
someone else to help fix it.  If you see a nail sticking up, grab a 
hammer.  Don't whine, and
take you cookies and go home.  If this were a commercial piece of 
software, that would be your best course of
action as a customer.  Thats not the case here.

-Andy


>>What do you mean by "better support"? 
>>
>>
>
>
>Maybe I'm suffering from dislexia, but reading the docs in
>xml.apache.org/cocoon helped me only to understand the highest level
>concepts. There were lots of tiny little issues which are not covered
>anywhere  in the documentation. "What's the best way to do this and this?".
>No answers anywhere but here, in the mailing list. Ok, I have a habit to
>look into sources when I've time, but sometimes there's no time. You came
>here and ask a question, hopefully soon you get an answer. Then comes
>another issue, then another and so on. Finally, you spend whole day on some
>stupid problem which could be resolved with good FAQ. 
>
>I have to admit that things are improving with docs. FAQs are becoming real
>FAQs, not those short "read mailing list" as they were before. IBM's
>tutorials are a very positive step, I recommend them to everybody. They help
>a lot. Again, I'm not complaining I just want to say that there's an issue,
>and I'm glad that the situation with documentation is improving. I think
>that the biggest issue with Cocoon is its docs.
>
>  
>
>>>and better documentation. 
>>>
>>>I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
>>>framework.
>>>  
>>>
>>So, help us make it better. 
>>
>>
>
>raising the issue is my help :) 
>
>-
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>
>  
>




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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Jorge De Flon]

I understand the complaints and agree with many of them, but I think that
they are somewhat abstract or ambiguous.

may you detail them so that they can be solved?
it would be very helpful for all of us.

Thanks to all the contributors to the cocoon project, it is a great product,
but
remember that one of the principles of programming is being humble to
accept that things can be improved.
Regards

for example
Documentation is scarce [ what part is scarce? all of it? XSP? ]
Documentation is outdated   [the same]
few examples  [which functionality needs more
examples urgently?]
stabilization [any comments? ]
etc



- Original Message -
From: "daniel robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing


> My .02,
>
> Thanks to Eric, Argyn and John for their honesty.  And thanks to all of
> the Cocoon developers for their hard work and vision.  I would like to
> add my comments to the reality check that is going on.
>
> I have over 17 years experience in the industry and have led developer
> teams working on commercial software projects.  I am an expert Java
> programmer as well as C/C++ and others.  I have worked on multiple
> operating systems.  I love a challenge.  I'm not bragging (believe me I
> don't think any of this stuff is anything to brag about in the REAL
> world :) ), but I want to do a level-set as to who is doing the talking.
>
> I embraced this project because:
>
> 1) It had the Apache "stamp of approval"
> 2) It said it was > version 2.0
> 3) The technological vision and approach seemed (and still seem) to be
> the correct one.
>
> What I wanted:
>
> 1) To get a simple web site up fast and lay the groundwork for
> subsequent versions (see www.vsolano.us).
> 2) To use open source for all the right reasons.
>
> What I experienced:
>
> 1) An incredibly steep learning curve that has no end in sight.  I have
> NEVER worked on a project where I spent a hard 6 weeks slogging through
> a technology and had NO IDEA when it was going to end.
> 2) Documentation is not usefull - sorry.  I've tried and tried.  The
> closest it has come to being useful is that after I've spent hours on
> something and asked questions on the mail lists I have been able to go
> back to it and say "oh.. that's what they meant"
> 3) Serious problems (hours lost) upgrading from 2.0 to 2.0.2 - looking
> at the change logs for potential hints at what was necessary was a
> non-starter.
> 4) Generally helpful but inconsistant responses from the mail lists.
>  You should seriously consider joining the two lists as all it is doing
> right now is making me have to search both lists for everything that i'm
> looking for.  Many of the questions were answered in a way which built
> character but were much too cryptic to be helpful to anyone who comes
> later.  (I'm sure this is because the really knowledgeable people are
> spending too much time answering e-mails).
>
> My conclusions:
>
> 1) Almost by definition this should not be a released product - sorry
> but true.  Someone should define what is meant by alpha, beta and
> released software - also the meaning of point releases.
> 2) I don't have time to read the source code - not because I can't or
> won't from some misplaced belief that it shouldn't be necessary -
> because I don't believe it would be time well spent - too much of a lack
> of basic doco to make it worth the time.
> 3) I will continue to maintain the current web site in Cocoon while I
> research alternatives.  I am going to keep an open mind and hope that
> the forthcoming books will be of assistance - however I don't see how
> this will be since there have been significant changes (forms and
> authentication system to just name a few at the feature level) since
> those books have gone to publishing.
>
> Also - please see my comments inline below -
>
>
> Eric Sheffer wrote:
>
> >I completely agree with Argyn's and John's comments here.
> >But, I don't think the sentiments expressed are unique to
> >the cocoon project.
> >
> >I'm a big proponent of open source software.  I try to use it
> >and recommend it whenever I can.  However, I can't spend two
> >weeks just getting up to speed on something.  I have to be
> >productive quite soon after picking it up. I'm busying 50 to
> >60 hours a week doing what my job demands of me, so I don't
> >have a lot of extra time to devote to learning how to use a
> >product, much less debugging or coding one.
> >
> Big agreement - I see my involvement as learning what I can, writing the
> occasional FAQ and helping out on the mailing lists.
>
> >
> >
> >I still want to stay ahead of the curve, and learn new things
> >and use new technologies.  But, many open source projects
> >make this very difficult.  So if I could be presumptuous, here
> >are some suggestions I'll offer to make life a little easier
> >on us early 

null pointer passed as base exception

[Leona Slepetis]

Hi All,

I have part of  a pipeline that looks like this:


  
  





  
  
  


In gs.xml I have:


  



In gs.xsl I have:

  

  


  

  

And default-html.xsl has:

  

  
title
  
  

  

  

I get to it by calling
http://localhost:8080/GS/matrix?dealID=1001&playerID=&matrixfile=file:///D:/
matrix.xml&projectname=new

When I run it, the following error occurs:
Could not read resource file:/D:/tomcat/webapps/GS/gs.xml

org.apache.cocoon.ProcessingException: Could not read resource
file:/D:/tomcat/webapps/GorillaStation/gs.xml: java.lang.RuntimeException:
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Null pointer passed as base

One thing I notice is that playerID is not set to the value '123'. Why is
this?
The other thing is that if I take out  from the pipeline it works
according to the default logic in .

There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with gs.xml; it was working under
C1.
Other pipeline segments using the parameter "pagename" work just fine, such
as:


  
  

  
  
  


Can anyone give me a clue as to what is wrong?

Thanks very much,
Leona


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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

daniel robinson wrote:
> My .02,
> 
> Thanks to Eric, Argyn and John for their honesty.  And thanks to all of 
> the Cocoon developers for their hard work and vision.  I would like to 
> add my comments to the reality check that is going on.
> 
> I have over 17 years experience in the industry and have led developer 
> teams working on commercial software projects.  I am an expert Java 
> programmer as well as C/C++ and others.  I have worked on multiple 
> operating systems.  I love a challenge.  I'm not bragging (believe me I 
> don't think any of this stuff is anything to brag about in the REAL 
> world :) ), but I want to do a level-set as to who is doing the talking.

You don't mention programming in the XML field.
This is paramount.

> I embraced this project because:
> 
> 1) It had the Apache "stamp of approval"
> 2) It said it was > version 2.0
> 3) The technological vision and approach seemed (and still seem) to be 
> the correct one.
> 
> What I wanted:
> 
> 1) To get a simple web site up fast and lay the groundwork for 
> subsequent versions (see www.vsolano.us).

The example webapp.
Full of prebuilt parts.
What's the problem?

> 2) To use open source for all the right reasons.

What are they?

> What I experienced:
> 
> 1) An incredibly steep learning curve that has no end in sight.  I have 
> NEVER worked on a project where I spent a hard 6 weeks slogging through 
> a technology and had NO IDEA when it was going to end.

Too generic. What don't you understand?
What do you expect and doesn't work as you expect?

> 2) Documentation is not usefull - sorry.  I've tried and tried.  The 
> closest it has come to being useful is that after I've spent hours on 
> something and asked questions on the mail lists I have been able to go 
> back to it and say "oh.. that's what they meant"

What documents were not helpful in what cases?
What couldn't you find?
How did you search for it?

> 3) Serious problems (hours lost) upgrading from 2.0 to 2.0.2 - looking 
> at the change logs for potential hints at what was necessary was a 
> non-starter.

What were the serious problems? (hours lost is not a problem, it's the 
result of the problem)

> 4) Generally helpful but inconsistant responses from the mail lists. You 
> should seriously consider joining the two lists as all it is doing right 
> now is making me have to search both lists for everything that i'm 
> looking for.  Many of the questions were answered in a way which built 
> character but were much too cryptic to be helpful to anyone who comes 
> later.  (I'm sure this is because the really knowledgeable people are 
> spending too much time answering e-mails).

We give help. *Not* complete solutions. We are not paid for it, it's all 
free help.

> My conclusions:
> 
> 1) Almost by definition this should not be a released product - sorry 
> but true.  Someone should define what is meant by alpha, beta and 
> released software - also the meaning of point releases.

This is not a shrink-wrapped software.

> 2) I don't have time to read the source code - not because I can't or 
> won't from some misplaced belief that it shouldn't be necessary - 
> because I don't believe it would be time well spent - too much of a lack 
> of basic doco to make it worth the time.

Sorry but I don't get it.
We have *tons* of documentation. But you just gotta learn ;-)

> 3) I will continue to maintain the current web site in Cocoon while I 
> research alternatives.  I am going to keep an open mind and hope that 
> the forthcoming books will be of assistance - however I don't see how 
> this will be since there have been significant changes (forms and 
> authentication system to just name a few at the feature level) since 
> those books have gone to publishing.

Forms and authentication systems are not changed. We have new ones.
Did you ever think that nio is a change to io package?

What you wrote is completely useless to me, sorry.

If you really want to help us, and it seems you do, please explain the 
real problems in terms of
- what you want to achieve.
- how you did it
- what you assumed correct and don't see working
- where-how you searched for a solution
- how you tried solving the problem
- what you would have wanted to see-find

All these *concrete* examples would really help us.

Thank you.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re[2]: Does anyone remember cocoon 1.8?

[Russell Castagnaro]

Hello Paul,

I love cocoon 1.82 and still use it in production systems.  It was
incredibly simple and flexible.

the error you are getting was pretty standard.  you need to I found
the easiest way to deal with it was to change the "resource" url to a
"file" or "http"

resource://org/apache/cocoon/processor/xsp/library/java/util.xsl

should be
http://localhost/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/processor 

I have cocoon set up as a web app, but you can just stick the source
somewhere on your server and link to that directly.


Good Luck, and don't believe that Cocoon 2 is the same product.

Thursday, June 27, 2002, 8:35:34 AM, you wrote:

PG> Marty,

PG> Yes I have just started with 1.8 for a production project.. not had time 
PG> to look yet but get the same
PG> error - I was using the 1.8.2 from the default SuSE 8 install but this 
PG> gave the above error.

PG> So I have downloaded the 1.8.2 lastest, build it and ran that under 
PG> tomcat - now get:

PG> http://om2.oyap.net/Cocoon.xml

PG> or


PG>   Not Found

PG> The requested URL /Cocoon.xml was not found on this server.


PG> http://om2.oyap.net/cocoon/samples/index.xml

PG> WORKING NOW ... BUT HOW?? was not a day or so ago :) must be a cache 
PG> reload issue.

PG> Have not had the time to look at the other bits.. maybe weekend.

PG> But to get that far I did nothing but do a build.sh!

PG> Paul



PG> Marty McClelland wrote:

>>I haven't installed 1.8 in a while - and from my memory - this looks like
>>the kind of error I got when I didn't follow the installation instructions
>>carefully ( i.e. jars not in the right directory, or not loaded in the
>>appropriate sequence,  )
>>
>>Have you searched the archives?
>>
>>marty
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Paul Gilligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:02 AM
>>Subject: Does anyone remember cocoon 1.8?
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>>I have switched to an "out of the box" cocoon 1,8 that coomes with SuSE
>>>
>>>
>>8.0
>>  
>>
>>>and I get:
>>>
>>>java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading logicsheet at
>>>resource://org/apache/cocoon/processor/xsp/library/java/util.xsl due to
>>>java.lang.Exception: Resource not found or retrieving error.
>>>
>>>Now I am sure that this is a std problem and someone can tell me how to
>>>sort this out without me
>>>having to dig too deep :)
>>>
>>>What I am working on is using the new Oracle 9.2 XML repository and a
>>>standard cocoon production version (1.8)
>>>and the JDK 1.3 that comes with it -hence I do not want to have todo too
>>>much work on the cocoon side.
>>>
>>>Then I will be adapting the docbook DTD to work with Oracle and then use
>>>cocoon to publish.
>>>
>>>Now here is the crunch!! I can easily do a little programming to with
>>>Oracle to make a content management
>>>frame work :)
>>>
>>>Has any one else looked at Oracle 9.2 XML?
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-
>>>Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
>>>FAQ before posting. 
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>  
>>




-- 
Best regards,
 Russellmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: J2EE Datasources

[Russell Castagnaro]

Hello Joshua,

You might try looking up:

myhms-datasource

or
jdbc/myhms-datasource

instead of

jdbc/MysqlDS


The documentation from Orion should help you on this.  I know I did
the same thing using weblogic, but it took a couple of tries to get it
to work.

Also keep in mind that datasources can be webapp specific, so if you
haven't set up a datasource in the webapp itself, you'll never find it
using the "java:comp/env/jdbc/".


I'd also recommend making getting a list of the names of all of the
objects in your JNDI tree for future reference (after reading the
Orion docs) :)

Here's some code to help:

package com.synctank.labs.jndi;

import javax.naming.*;

public class JNDILister {
public static void main(String _arg[]){
Object o = null;  InitialContext ctx= null;
String start = "foo.bar";
if (_arg.length > 0) start = _arg[0];
try{
ctx = getInitialContext();
Context c = (Context)ctx.lookup(start);
list(c);

} catch (ClassCastException e) {
System.out.println("Found a "+o.getClass().getName() +": 
"+o.toString() );
} catch (NamingException ne) {
System.out.println("We have a problem!");
ne.printStackTrace();
} finally {
try {  ctx.close(); }catch (Exception e ) {}
}
}

public static void list(Context _ctx) 
{
StringBuffer sb = new StringBuffer();
try {
NamingEnumeration enum = _ctx.listBindings("");
while (enum.hasMore()) {
javax.naming.Binding binding = 
(javax.naming.Binding)enum.next();
Object obj = (Object)binding.getObject();
if (obj instanceof Context) 
{
System.out.print("---> ");
System.out.print(binding.getName());
System.out.print(".");
list((Context)obj);
} else {
String name = binding.getName();
System.out.print("LEAF: "+name);// + " is "+ 
obj.getClass().getName()) ;

}
}
} catch (NamingException e) {
System.out.println(e);
}
}
public static InitialContext getInitialContext() throws NamingException {
// use the factory from your provider, this is an LDAP
provider
String factory = "com.sun.jndi.ldap.LdapCtxFactory";
// use the url of
String url = "ldap://ldap.bigfoot.com:389";;
String user = null; //the user name, if any
String password = null; // password if any;

java.util.Hashtable p = new java.util.Properties();
p.put(Context.INITIAL_CONTEXT_FACTORY, factory);
p.put(Context.PROVIDER_URL, url);

if (user != null && password != null ) {
System.out.println("user: " + user);
p.put(Context.SECURITY_PRINCIPAL, user);
p.put(Context.SECURITY_CREDENTIALS, password);
}

return new InitialContext(p);
}


}

Thursday, June 27, 2002, 9:00:44 AM, you wrote:

JM> Hello,

JM> I'd like to know if anyone is using J2EE defined
JM> datasources in Cocoon? 
JM> I'm trying unsucessfully to connect to a MySQL
JM> database using the Orion J2EE server. I've defined a
JM> datasource in Orion:

JM>  name="Mysql" 
JM> class="com.evermind.sql.DriverManagerDataSource"
JM> schema="database-schemas/mysql.xml" 
JM> location="jdbc/MysqlDS" 
JM> xa-location="jdbc/xa/MysqlXADS" 
JM> ejb-location="jdbc/MysqlDS" 
JM> connection-driver="org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver" 
JM> username="root" 
JM> password="" 
JM> url="jdbc:mysql://localhost/myhms" 
JM> inactivity-timeout="30" 
JM> />

JM> I can get a javax.sql.DataSource using the following
JM> code from within a custom class called by a custom
JM> Transformer:

JM> DataSource ds = (DataSource) new
JM> InitialContext().lookup("jdbc/MysqlDS");


JM> I then defined this datasource in cocoon.xconf:

JM> 
JM>   MysqlDS
JM> 





-- 
Best regards,
 Russell   

J2EE Datasources

[Joshua McCulloch]

Hello,

I'd like to know if anyone is using J2EE defined
datasources in Cocoon? 
I'm trying unsucessfully to connect to a MySQL
database using the Orion J2EE server. I've defined a
datasource in Orion:



I can get a javax.sql.DataSource using the following
code from within a custom class called by a custom
Transformer:

DataSource ds = (DataSource) new
InitialContext().lookup("jdbc/MysqlDS");


I then defined this datasource in cocoon.xconf:


  MysqlDS


When Cocoon starts, this occurs in the error.log:

ERROR   (2002-06-27) 11:58.24:441  
[core.datasources.myhms-datasource] (Unknown-URI)
Unknown-thread/LogKitLogger: Problem with JNDI lookup
of datasource
javax.naming.NameNotFoundException: jdbc/MysqlDS not
found in Cocoon2 Demo
at com.evermind._lj.lookup(.:49)
at com.evermind._bm._es(.:121)
at com.evermind._bm.lookup(.:63)
at
javax.naming.InitialContext.lookup(InitialContext.java:345)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.datasource.J2eeDataSource.configure(J2eeDataSource.java:63)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.component.DefaultComponentFactory.newInstance(DefaultComponentFactory.java:172)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.component.ThreadSafeComponentHandler.initialize(ThreadSafeComponentHandler.java:84)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.component.ExcaliburComponentSelector.addComponent(ExcaliburComponentSelector.java:467)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.component.ExcaliburComponentSelector.configure(ExcaliburComponentSelector.java:354)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.component.DefaultComponentFactory.newInstance(DefaultComponentFactory.java:172)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.component.ThreadSafeComponentHandler.initialize(ThreadSafeComponentHandler.java:84)
at
org.apache.avalon.excalibur.component.ExcaliburComponentManager.initialize(ExcaliburComponentManager.java:167)
at
org.apache.cocoon.Cocoon.initialize(Cocoon.java:269)
at
org.apache.cocoon.servlet.CocoonServlet.createCocoon(CocoonServlet.java:1212)
at
org.apache.cocoon.servlet.CocoonServlet.init(CocoonServlet.java:407)


I haven't worked with JNDI before. What am I missing?
I looked at J2eeDataSource.java and found it was
calling InitialContext.lookup( "java:comp/env/jdbc/" +
"MysqlDS")

I tried changing the datasource location attribute to
"java:comp/env/jdbc/MysqlDS" which didn't do anything,
not that I was really expecting it to...

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Diana Shannon]

On Thursday, June 27, 2002, at 11:32  AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

> Time is the limitation that keeps all the developers from creating good
> docs in pace with the changes in the system.  Occasionally promising 
> open source projects get adopted by a big sponsor corporation which 
> helps to make it easier to cross the chasm.

But this may suggest to users that doc problems can only be solved by 
developers, book authors, and corporations. This isn't necessarily true. 
Or, it doesn't have to be true.

I'll be the first to admit writing Cocoon documentation is difficult. 
You get all excited, start down a path, and -- BAM -- you hit a road 
block. You take a detour, e.g., to read more about Avalon or about Ant. 
Then you come back to continue with your effort. BAM. The cvs HEAD 
branch has changed. What worked yesterday doesn't work today. Did you do 
something wrong? Maybe. To be safe (who wants to confuse future users) 
you start over. BAM. You can't figure out the meaning of a component 
parameter. It's not even defined in the source code. Need to run it by 
Vadim on cocoon-users. BAM. etc. etc. etc.

Sounds pretty frustrating, eh? Well. the reward is you learn a 
*ton,* and you will advance your abilities as a Cocoon user unlike any 
other available option. For example, I just finished a new How-To, but 
now I feel I can write a How-To on about ten other Cocoon topics, just 
from the knowledge I gained in this single writing experience. Granted, 
this kind of job isn't for everyone, but I don't know of a better way to 
learn for intermediate users. And in my short experience, developers 
have been unbelievably responsive to my technical questions. What a 
great learning opportunity for the taking!

I think intermediate Cocoon users can make a *big* difference with docs, 
if they can find the time to write. Do users realize this? I personally 
didn't know I could even help out with an open source project with doc 
writing until very recently -- and I've been using Cocoon since version 
1.0. I know, it's hard to find the time to do lots of things, but if you 
are invested in Cocoon, you may really enjoy and benefit from the 
writing experience -- no matter how small a contribution you make.  I 
also believe it's important for *users* to write some docs because they 
are in a better position to understand the challenges other users face. 
This won't solve the problem overnight, but it's has a positive feedback 
loop, i.e. more docs -> more knowledge -> more authors w/knowledge -> 
more docs ...

I know this response doesn't satisfy all of the concerns raised in this 
thread. Nevertheless, if users want to write docs, please check out the 
How-Tos that are available for documentation at 
http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/howto/ . If you want to work on existing 
docs, contact me to talk about it. Interested in editing? There's a lot 
for you to do. Want to work on architectural doc issues? Check out 
Forrest. http://xml.apache.org/forrest/  If you don't have time to 
provide structured text for your work, simply post the content to this 
list. Given time, I'm sure someone will find a way to migrate useful 
content to an official Cocoon document. Quality open source docs may 
take time, and the results may seem incremental at first, but that 
doesn't mean it can't or it won't happen... it may just not happen on 
*your* time frame.

-- Diana



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Re: Does anyone remember cocoon 1.8?

[Paul Gilligan]

Marty,

Yes I have just started with 1.8 for a production project.. not had time
to look yet but get the same
error - I was using the 1.8.2 from the default SuSE 8 install but this gave
the above error.

So I have downloaded the 1.8.2 lastest, build it and ran that under tomcat
- now get:

http://om2.oyap.net/Cocoon.xml

or 

Not Found
 The requested URL /Cocoon.xml was not found on this server.


http://om2.oyap.net/cocoon/samples/index.xml

WORKING NOW ... BUT HOW?? was not a day or so ago :) must be a cache reload
issue.

Have not had the time to look at the other bits.. maybe weekend.

But to get that far I did nothing but do a build.sh!

Paul



Marty McClelland wrote:

  I haven't installed 1.8 in a while - and from my memory - this looks like
the kind of error I got when I didn't follow the installation instructions
carefully ( i.e. jars not in the right directory, or not loaded in the
appropriate sequence,  )

Have you searched the archives?

marty
- Original Message -
From: "Paul Gilligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: Does anyone remember cocoon 1.8?


  
  
I have switched to an "out of the box" cocoon 1,8 that coomes with SuSE

  
  8.0
  
  
and I get:

java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading logicsheet at
resource://org/apache/cocoon/processor/xsp/library/java/util.xsl due to
java.lang.Exception: Resource not found or retrieving error.

Now I am sure that this is a std problem and someone can tell me how to
sort this out without me
having to dig too deep :)

What I am working on is using the new Oracle 9.2 XML repository and a
standard cocoon production version (1.8)
and the JDK 1.3 that comes with it -hence I do not want to have todo too
much work on the cocoon side.

Then I will be adapting the docbook DTD to work with Oracle and then use
cocoon to publish.

Now here is the crunch!! I can easily do a little programming to with
Oracle to make a content management
frame work :)

Has any one else looked at Oracle 9.2 XML?

Paul






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RE: XML output transformed into XSP.

[Graeme Colman]

I know that this type of question has been answered a
lot on this list but I still can't get this to work as
I would like.

What I have is an xml file.
I need to transform this xml adding a few tags.
I then need to put this through an xsp processor.

so:  pipeline 1: xml file -> xsl -> xml
 pipeline 2: pipeline1 -> xsp -> xsl -> html


with the sitemap:

   
 
 
 
   
   

   
 
 
 
   


Sounds simple using the sub sitemap stuff.

I can get this working if the original xml is an xsp
file and generated with a type="serverpages".

But.

When I try to do as above, the html output is still as
the original post which is:


  C:\...WEB-INF/classes/dams/logicsheets/damDb.xsl



Question:
Can this work with an XML file input to a pipeline and
using this XML output as the source for an XSP
processing pipeline?


Any help much appreciated
Graeme Colman.


 --- Vadim Gritsenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: > > From: System Administrator
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am a newcomer to cocoon, using it to implement a
> commercial
> > application.
> > 
> > I have a problem.
> > 
> > I have a pre-generated XML file which specifies a
> database table
> > configuration. I am trying to do the following:
> > 
> > 1 - Transform the xml into xsp.
> > 2 - Transform the xsp tags using esql logicsheet.
> > 3 - display results from the database call.
> > 
> > The following sitemap snip is how I was thinking
> it should work
> > but dosen't. Am I completley off the mark here or
> is this possible?
> 
> This is possible and sample is provided. Install
> cocoon and go to
> http://localhost:8080/cocoon/sub/
> 
> 
> Happy hacking,
> Vadim
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >
> > "stylesheets/dbConfig.xsl"/>
> >
> >  
> >
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >
> >   src="cocoon:/config"/>
> >  
> >  
> >
> > 
> > The above was attempting to transform the xml
> using an internal
> > pipeline, then use this transformed xml as input
> to the
> > serverpages generator. But it's not working.
> > 
> > The outpur being sent to the browser:
> > 
> > http://apache.org/xsp";
> xmlns:xsp-
> > session="http://apache.org/xsp/session/2.0";
> > xmlns:xspdoc="http://apache.org/cocoon/XSPDoc/v1";
> > xmlns:esql="http://apache.org/cocoon/SQL/v2";
> > xmlns:damDb="http://hostname/damDb/1.0";>C:/Program
> Files/Tomcat
> > 4.0.3/webapps/cocoon/WEB-
> >
> INF/classes/dams/logicsheets/damDb.xsl
> > 
> > 
> > Any help would be most gratefully received.
> > 
> > Regards
> > Graeme
>  

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RE: Retrieving sitemap paramters in a serializer

[Lai, Harry]

Hi Gerardo,

Here's a link to a previous discussion about this:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10154269536&r=1&w=2

The short answer is that you can't pass a request-time parameter to a
serializer; you can only pass configuration-time parameters (in the
map:serializer element, when you define your serializer components), but
that probably won't work for what you're trying to do.

One kind-of-ugly solution mentioned in the above discussion is to have a
previous component in the pipeline (such as a transformer or generator) read
the parameter and stick it into the XML, which would allow your custom
serializer to read it out of the XML.  Not the prettiest thing, but it does
work...

Anyway, sorry I don't have a better answer.

Harry

PS  There was also mention of a FileWritingTransformer, but I believe that's
in the scratchpad.  Might be worth checking out, though.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 12:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Retrieving sitemap paramters in a serializer


I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but I can't seem to figure out how
to get the Parameters object to a serializer.  I have a pipeline that has a
parameter that I am trying to access from within the serializer.  The code
for both is below.  The serializer is just trying to write the file to
disk.  I'm sure that this type of serializer must have been written
already, but I couldn't find it anywhere and it doesn't seem that hard.
Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

-gerardo


  
  
  
  
   

--
public class FileSerializer extends AbstractTextSerializer implements
Poolable {

private TransformerHandler handler;

public FileSerializer() {
}

public void setOutputStream(OutputStream out) {
try {
  Parameters param = ;
  final String filename = param.getParameter("filename", null);
  if(filename != null)
   super.setOutputStream(new FileOutputStream("c:
\\jakarta-tomcat-3.2.4\\webapps\\cocoon\\uploadDir\\"+ filename));

else
   super.setOutputStream(out);

handler = getTransformerFactory().newTransformerHandler();
format.put(OutputKeys.METHOD,"html");
handler.setResult(new StreamResult(this.output));
handler.getTransformer().setOutputProperties(format);
this.setContentHandler(handler);
this.setLexicalHandler(handler);
} catch (Exception e) {
getLogger().error("FileSerializer.setOutputStream()", e);
throw new RuntimeException(e.toString());
}
}

/**
 * Recyce the serializer. GC instance variables
 */
public void recycle() {
super.recycle();
this.handler = null;
}
}

+-+
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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Mike Ash]

Title: RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing





Out of all of the posts in this thread I haven't heard anyone say that no matter what 3rd party software you use you will have to "figure it out".  At least with Cocoon you can get good support and fixes quickly for free!  Buy someone else's stuff and they may or may not be willing to include your needs and if they do you'll have to pay to upgrade.  


As far as the help goes all of my problems have been solved without the lovely common tech support answer of "1st reboot the machine, then reinstall :)

-Original Message-
From: daniel robinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing



My .02,


Thanks to Eric, Argyn and John for their honesty.  And thanks to all of 
the Cocoon developers for their hard work and vision.  I would like to 
add my comments to the reality check that is going on.


I have over 17 years experience in the industry and have led developer 
teams working on commercial software projects.  I am an expert Java 
programmer as well as C/C++ and others.  I have worked on multiple 
operating systems.  I love a challenge.  I'm not bragging (believe me I 
don't think any of this stuff is anything to brag about in the REAL 
world :) ), but I want to do a level-set as to who is doing the talking.


I embraced this project because:


1) It had the Apache "stamp of approval"
2) It said it was > version 2.0
3) The technological vision and approach seemed (and still seem) to be 
the correct one.


What I wanted:


1) To get a simple web site up fast and lay the groundwork for 
subsequent versions (see www.vsolano.us).
2) To use open source for all the right reasons.


What I experienced:


1) An incredibly steep learning curve that has no end in sight.  I have 
NEVER worked on a project where I spent a hard 6 weeks slogging through 
a technology and had NO IDEA when it was going to end.
2) Documentation is not usefull - sorry.  I've tried and tried.  The 
closest it has come to being useful is that after I've spent hours on 
something and asked questions on the mail lists I have been able to go 
back to it and say "oh.. that's what they meant"
3) Serious problems (hours lost) upgrading from 2.0 to 2.0.2 - looking 
at the change logs for potential hints at what was necessary was a 
non-starter.
4) Generally helpful but inconsistant responses from the mail lists. 
 You should seriously consider joining the two lists as all it is doing 
right now is making me have to search both lists for everything that i'm 
looking for.  Many of the questions were answered in a way which built 
character but were much too cryptic to be helpful to anyone who comes 
later.  (I'm sure this is because the really knowledgeable people are 
spending too much time answering e-mails).


My conclusions:


1) Almost by definition this should not be a released product - sorry 
but true.  Someone should define what is meant by alpha, beta and 
released software - also the meaning of point releases.
2) I don't have time to read the source code - not because I can't or 
won't from some misplaced belief that it shouldn't be necessary - 
because I don't believe it would be time well spent - too much of a lack 
of basic doco to make it worth the time.
3) I will continue to maintain the current web site in Cocoon while I 
research alternatives.  I am going to keep an open mind and hope that 
the forthcoming books will be of assistance - however I don't see how 
this will be since there have been significant changes (forms and 
authentication system to just name a few at the feature level) since 
those books have gone to publishing.


Also - please see my comments inline below -



Eric Sheffer wrote:


>I completely agree with Argyn's and John's comments here.
>But, I don't think the sentiments expressed are unique to 
>the cocoon project.
>
>I'm a big proponent of open source software.  I try to use it
>and recommend it whenever I can.  However, I can't spend two 
>weeks just getting up to speed on something.  I have to be 
>productive quite soon after picking it up. I'm busying 50 to 
>60 hours a week doing what my job demands of me, so I don't 
>have a lot of extra time to devote to learning how to use a 
>product, much less debugging or coding one.
>
Big agreement - I see my involvement as learning what I can, writing the 
occasional FAQ and helping out on the mailing lists.


>
>
>I still want to stay ahead of the curve, and learn new things
>and use new technologies.  But, many open source projects
>make this very difficult.  So if I could be presumptuous, here 
>are some suggestions I'll offer to make life a little easier
>on us early adopters:
>
>(1) Don't create a new nomenclature, language or jargon to 
>describe your project.  The world has enough acronyms, 
>marketing-speak and inpenetrable software descriptions.  Don't 
>add to it.  When descri

Retrieving sitemap paramters in a serializer

[Gerardo_Flores]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but I can't seem to figure out how
to get the Parameters object to a serializer.  I have a pipeline that has a
parameter that I am trying to access from within the serializer.  The code
for both is below.  The serializer is just trying to write the file to
disk.  I'm sure that this type of serializer must have been written
already, but I couldn't find it anywhere and it doesn't seem that hard.
Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

-gerardo


  
  
  
  
   
--
public class FileSerializer extends AbstractTextSerializer implements
Poolable {

private TransformerHandler handler;

public FileSerializer() {
}

public void setOutputStream(OutputStream out) {
try {
  Parameters param = ;
  final String filename = param.getParameter("filename", null);
  if(filename != null)
   super.setOutputStream(new FileOutputStream("c:
\\jakarta-tomcat-3.2.4\\webapps\\cocoon\\uploadDir\\"+ filename));

else
   super.setOutputStream(out);

handler = getTransformerFactory().newTransformerHandler();
format.put(OutputKeys.METHOD,"html");
handler.setResult(new StreamResult(this.output));
handler.getTransformer().setOutputProperties(format);
this.setContentHandler(handler);
this.setLexicalHandler(handler);
} catch (Exception e) {
getLogger().error("FileSerializer.setOutputStream()", e);
throw new RuntimeException(e.toString());
}
}

/**
 * Recyce the serializer. GC instance variables
 */
public void recycle() {
super.recycle();
this.handler = null;
}
}

+-+
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information.  If you are not the addressee or authorized to
receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy,
disclose or take any action based on this message or any
information herein.  If you have received this message in
error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message.  Thank you for your cooperation.
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Re: "(possible context problem)" after moving application out from Cocoon tree

[KOZLOV Roman]

Hi Andrei,

Try "cocoon://" (to get access via root sitemap) or "cocoon:/" (for current sitemap) 
instead of "context://".

Roman

Andrei Svirida wrote:

> Hello Cocooners,
>
> I have a following problem : i had a cocoon application running at Deployment Root>/testapp and
> everything worked fine.
>
> After moving the application to c:\testapp i updated the entry in my
> main sitemap.xmap to
> 
> 
>   src="file:///c:/testapp" uri-prefix="mmservicearea/"/>
> 
> ---
>
> Now i get an error
> ---
> java.lang.RuntimeException: testapp/docs/forms/login-form.xml could not be found. 
>(possible context problem)
> ---
>
> I have some form validation code in my application wich uses
> form descriptor in c:\testapp\docs\forms\form1.xml
> and i reference to this descriptor with
> --
> 
> --.
>
> Its obvious that this code causes the error.
>
> Is there some way to solve this problem other then saying:
> --
> 
> -- ?
>
> I would greatly appreciate any tip
>
> --
> Andrei Svirida, Projekte & Entwicklung
> MIDRAY GmbH - a debitel company
> Phone:  +49.221.8884 435
> Fax:+49.221.8884 455
>
> http://www.midray.com/
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
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Re: Xindice and Cocoon

[daniel robinson]

Cenk,

Try posting to cocoon-dev.

Dan

Cenk Uysal wrote:

>Is it difficult question? Why does nobody answer?
>
>__
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>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>-
>Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
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>
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>
>
>



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Re: Réf. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Ryan Hoegg]

Hello,

One example of a project using Cocoon with Turbine is the Jetspeed 
project at http://jakarta.apache.org/ .  They have some architecture 
details here: 
http://jakarta.apache.org/jetspeed/site/application-development.html

I also remember in my reading of the Turbine documentation that Turbine 
is designed for use with different "templating" components which could 
include Velocity or Cocoon.

Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks

Othman Haddad wrote:

> 1) so you mean that if i have turbine i can't call cocoon?
>
> 2)i mean something like:  wrapping castor for instance as a transformer!
>
>  
>
> thank you
>
>  
>
> ---Message original---
>
>  
>
> De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
> Date : jeudi 27 juin 2002 17:11:31
>
> A : '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
>
> Sujet : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet
>
>  
>
> [Please, don't use HTML mails]
>
> 1) you can't use only the pipeline from cocoon (at least, you can't do it
> easily), but you can use cocoon itself from an application and not a
> servlet. You can use the command line environment for that or create your
> own one.
>
> 2) What do you mean?
>
> Konstantin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:08 PM
> To: cocoon user list
> Subject: using cocoon pipelines without servlet
>
>
> hi everybody,
> i've got 2 questions that could help me a lot:
> 1) can i extract the cocoon pipeling mecanism from cocoon without 
> using as a
> servlet? (i'm already using turbine and have a lot of code, and what 
> just to
> use the interesting pipelining of cocoon)!
>
> 2) can i use a java object in the cocoon pipeline?
>
> thanks
>
>
> 
> IncrediMail - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer ici
>
> -
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. < http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html >
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>  >
> For additional commands, e-mail: < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>  >
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> 
>    IncrediMail 
> - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer ici 
>  

Problem with FileGenerator

[Andres, Judith]

Hi,

I have an XML file that I process using FileGenerator. So far so good.
Sometimes have to delete this file while Cocoon / Tomcat are still running -
the user requests me to do so - but I simply can't. When I shutdown Tomcat I
can delete the file.

Ok. I have already done some investigation. It seems that
inputSource.toSax(contentHandler) triggers this behaviour and in this method
the use of parser looked up by the manager. I have come to this conclusion
because I wrote my own FileGenerator with which this problem did not occur.
Within my FileGenerator I instantiated an XMLReader and didn't ask the
manager to find me one and let this reader parse the XML file.

Does this make any sense to you?

Thanks beforehand
Judith

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Re: Xindice and Cocoon

[Cenk Uysal]

Is it difficult question? Why does nobody answer?

__
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Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[daniel robinson]

My .02,

Thanks to Eric, Argyn and John for their honesty.  And thanks to all of 
the Cocoon developers for their hard work and vision.  I would like to 
add my comments to the reality check that is going on.

I have over 17 years experience in the industry and have led developer 
teams working on commercial software projects.  I am an expert Java 
programmer as well as C/C++ and others.  I have worked on multiple 
operating systems.  I love a challenge.  I'm not bragging (believe me I 
don't think any of this stuff is anything to brag about in the REAL 
world :) ), but I want to do a level-set as to who is doing the talking.

I embraced this project because:

1) It had the Apache "stamp of approval"
2) It said it was > version 2.0
3) The technological vision and approach seemed (and still seem) to be 
the correct one.

What I wanted:

1) To get a simple web site up fast and lay the groundwork for 
subsequent versions (see www.vsolano.us).
2) To use open source for all the right reasons.

What I experienced:

1) An incredibly steep learning curve that has no end in sight.  I have 
NEVER worked on a project where I spent a hard 6 weeks slogging through 
a technology and had NO IDEA when it was going to end.
2) Documentation is not usefull - sorry.  I've tried and tried.  The 
closest it has come to being useful is that after I've spent hours on 
something and asked questions on the mail lists I have been able to go 
back to it and say "oh.. that's what they meant"
3) Serious problems (hours lost) upgrading from 2.0 to 2.0.2 - looking 
at the change logs for potential hints at what was necessary was a 
non-starter.
4) Generally helpful but inconsistant responses from the mail lists. 
 You should seriously consider joining the two lists as all it is doing 
right now is making me have to search both lists for everything that i'm 
looking for.  Many of the questions were answered in a way which built 
character but were much too cryptic to be helpful to anyone who comes 
later.  (I'm sure this is because the really knowledgeable people are 
spending too much time answering e-mails).

My conclusions:

1) Almost by definition this should not be a released product - sorry 
but true.  Someone should define what is meant by alpha, beta and 
released software - also the meaning of point releases.
2) I don't have time to read the source code - not because I can't or 
won't from some misplaced belief that it shouldn't be necessary - 
because I don't believe it would be time well spent - too much of a lack 
of basic doco to make it worth the time.
3) I will continue to maintain the current web site in Cocoon while I 
research alternatives.  I am going to keep an open mind and hope that 
the forthcoming books will be of assistance - however I don't see how 
this will be since there have been significant changes (forms and 
authentication system to just name a few at the feature level) since 
those books have gone to publishing.

Also - please see my comments inline below -


Eric Sheffer wrote:

>I completely agree with Argyn's and John's comments here.
>But, I don't think the sentiments expressed are unique to 
>the cocoon project.
>
>I'm a big proponent of open source software.  I try to use it
>and recommend it whenever I can.  However, I can't spend two 
>weeks just getting up to speed on something.  I have to be 
>productive quite soon after picking it up. I'm busying 50 to 
>60 hours a week doing what my job demands of me, so I don't 
>have a lot of extra time to devote to learning how to use a 
>product, much less debugging or coding one.
>
Big agreement - I see my involvement as learning what I can, writing the 
occasional FAQ and helping out on the mailing lists.

>
>
>I still want to stay ahead of the curve, and learn new things
>and use new technologies.  But, many open source projects
>make this very difficult.  So if I could be presumptuous, here 
>are some suggestions I'll offer to make life a little easier
>on us early adopters:
>
>(1) Don't create a new nomenclature, language or jargon to 
>describe your project.  The world has enough acronyms, 
>marketing-speak and inpenetrable software descriptions.  Don't 
>add to it.  When describing your project, compare and 
>contrast it with other products the reader may be familiar
>with.
>
Most developers believe that they are doing something new.  You 
generally are not.  When you think you are you need to very carefully 
explain the motivations for what you are doing, define your terms and 
describe, in detail, your approach.

>
>
>(2) Don't assume the people who use a product or ask
>questions on a mailing list are the second coming of James
>Gosling or Bill Joy.  If you answer a question posed on the
>list, go a little bit more in depth so that others who may
>be reading the threads might be able to learn something.
>
Ditto - see my comments above - I'm pretty sure that the terseness of 
the responses is due to the overwhelming number of basic questions that

Esql build error

[Michael Mangeng]

Hi

I´ m trying to build the actual CVS sources.

After the warnings about the missings libs (php, jndi, ...) i get the
following error and the build process stops:

...
Compiling with Java 1.4, debug on, optimize off, deprecation off
Compiling 524 source files to
/home/m1k3/xml-cocoon2-newest/build/cocoon/classes
/home/m1k3/xml-cocoon2-newest/build/cocoon/src/org/apache/cocoon/components/language/markup/xsp/EsqlConnection.java:66:
 org.apache.cocoon.components.language.markup.xsp.EsqlConnection should be declared 
abstract; it does not define setHoldability(int) in 
org.apache.cocoon.components.language.markup.xsp.EsqlConnection
public class EsqlConnection implements Connection {
   ^
1 error

BUILD FAILED


###

whats wrong ?

thanx and greetings
mike

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Réf. : RE: Ref. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Othman Haddad]

  hi again,
  your second answer is exactly what i needed, it's amazing what cocoon 
  can do!!
  i meant: turbine send an xml document to cocoon (so i don't know if 
  there is any Generator  for that?), but the problem is that i don't 
  want cocoon to publish anything, i jsut want it to send the xml result 
  back to turbine, or just do other thing but no output to the 
  browser..
  is it possible?, 
  thanks a lot a lot  
   
  ---Message original---
   
  
  De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date : jeudi 27 juin 
  2002 17:28:17
  A : '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
  Sujet : RE: Ref. : RE: 
  using cocoon pipelines without servlet
   Again, please, don't use HTML mails, they are not 
  readable for some users.>1) so you mean that if i have turbine 
  i can't call cocoon?I didn't say a word about turbine. That 
  depends on the way you are going tocall Cocoon. Would you elaborate a 
  little?>2)i mean something like: wrapping castor for instance 
  as a transformer!Take a look at 
  the:xml-cocoon\2.0.3\src\scratchpad\src\org\apache\cocoon\transformation\CastorTransformer.java 
  is that what you need? -- Konstantin Piroumian [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  -Original Message-From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:16 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  Ref. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet1) so you 
  mean that if i have turbine i can't call cocoon?2)i mean something 
  like: wrapping castor for instance as a transformer!thank 
  you---Message original---De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date 
  : jeudi 27 juin 2002 17:11:31A : '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Sujet 
  : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet[Please, don't use 
  HTML mails]1) you can't use only the pipeline from cocoon (at 
  least, you can't do iteasily), but you can use cocoon itself from an 
  application and not aservlet. You can use the command line environment 
  for that or create yourown one.2) What do you 
  mean?Konstantin-Original Message-From: Othman 
  Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:08 PMTo: cocoon user 
  listSubject: using cocoon pipelines without servlethi 
  everybody,i've got 2 questions that could help me a lot:1) can i 
  extract the cocoon pipeling mecanism from cocoon without using as 
  aservlet? (i'm already using turbine and have a lot of code, and what 
  just touse the interesting pipelining of cocoon)!2) can i use 
  a java object in the cocoon 
  pipeline?thanksIncrediMail 
  - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer ici 
  -Please 
  check that your question has not already been answered in theFAQ 
  before posting. To 
  unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>For 
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ici

RE: RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Eric,

You have made some good points.

A long time ago I read a book "Crossing the Chasm ... " by Geoffrey A. Moore
in which he talks about how projects get off to a good start and often
go awry because of various factors. 
http://www.testing.com/writings/reviews/moore-chasm.html

I think Cocoon 2 is slightly beyond the early adopter/visionary phase and
probably standing just on the edge of the chasm.  The early adopters and visionaries 
in any field or technology, will invest the time and effort to surmount all types of 
barriers to reach their goal.  There are several working Cocoon 2 active livesites 
which are testimony to the fact that
it can be done.

A lot of work still remains to be done for the pragmatists, conservatives and skeptics 
to come on board and take a closer look
at Cocoon 2.  You have listed some of the drawbacks that are preventing
this from happening at a faster pace.

Time is the limitation that keeps all the developers from creating good
docs in pace with the changes in the system.  Occasionally promising open source 
projects get adopted by a big sponsor corporation which helps to
make it easier to cross the chasm.

Conrad D'Cruz

Original Message:
-
From: Eric Sheffer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:13:43 -0400
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing


I completely agree with Argyn's and John's comments here.
But, I don't think the sentiments expressed are unique to
the cocoon project.

I'm a big proponent of open source software.  I try to use it
and recommend it whenever I can.  However, I can't spend two
weeks just getting up to speed on something.  I have to be
productive quite soon after picking it up. I'm busying 50 to
60 hours a week doing what my job demands of me, so I don't
have a lot of extra time to devote to learning how to use a
product, much less debugging or coding one.

I still want to stay ahead of the curve, and learn new things
and use new technologies.  But, many open source projects
make this very difficult.  So if I could be presumptuous, here
are some suggestions I'll offer to make life a little easier
on us early adopters:

(1) Don't create a new nomenclature, language or jargon to
describe your project.  The world has enough acronyms,
marketing-speak and inpenetrable software descriptions.  Don't
add to it.  When describing your project, compare and
contrast it with other products the reader may be familiar
with.

(2) Don't assume the people who use a product or ask
questions on a mailing list are the second coming of James
Gosling or Bill Joy.  If you answer a question posed on the
list, go a little bit more in depth so that others who may
be reading the threads might be able to learn something.

(3) Don't skimp on documentation, and in doing so, be mindful
of (1) and (2).  When providing examples, do something a bit
more useful than yet another "Hello, World" example. Provide
more than one example, and make them progessively more complex,
building on previous examples as you go.

(4) Don't get overly defensive when responding to criticism.
And, don't respond with the typical open source developer
knee-jerk reaction of "Why don't you help out?"  Not everyone
is in a position to provide the time and effort necessary for
a meaningful contribution.  Don't dismiss the concerns of
those who don't or can't participate.

(5) Beware of the warning signs, like those expressed in John's
message.  He obviously isn't an idiot, and has invested some
time and effort trying to learn and use cocoon.  Yet, he's
having trouble making cocoon useful.  That should be a wake
up call.

(6) Don't assume that everyone should use a product because
it's open source, and that it's better than closed source or
commercial products because it's open.  If a product doesn't
perform well or is difficult to learn, use or implement, what
good does being open source?  Before answering, refer to (4).


These points are based on observations of the Apache project
I've made over the last several years.  I applaud the efforts
of those who've invested the time and effort on the various
subprojects.  Many are among the most useful pieces of software
in my arsenal, like ant, log4j and struts.  Others have finally
come around, like tomcat which I found unusable until v3.
Cocoon is an intriguing product.  But, who will use it if
they can't understand how?

Eric



--

On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:41:18
 Piroumian Konstantin wrote:
>> From: Argyn Kuketayev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>
>> Good post :)
>>
>> Wake up, guys! John raised a real issue. You can't simply say
>> "Don't give
>> up, be patient, read mailing-list, look into sources..." and
>> so on. If you
>> want this framework to catch the train, then there must be
>> better support
>
>What do you mean by "better support"?
>
>> and better documentation.
>>
>> I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
>> framework.
>
>So, help us make it better.
>If yo

RE: Ref. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Piroumian Konstantin]

> From: Piroumian Konstantin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> 
> Again, please, don't use HTML mails, they are not readable 
> for some users.
> 
> >1) so you mean that if i have turbine i can't call cocoon?
> 
> I didn't say a word about turbine. That depends on the way 
> you are going to
> call Cocoon. Would you elaborate a little?
> 
> >2)i mean something like:  wrapping castor for instance as a 
> transformer!
> 
> Take a look at the:
> xml-cocoon\2.0.3\src\scratchpad\src\org\apache\cocoon\transfor
> mation\CastorT
> ransformer.java is that what you need? 

And the sample at the: xml-cocoon\2.0.3\src\scratchpad\webapp\castor

> 
> 
> -- 
> Konstantin Piroumian 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:16 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Ref. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet
> 
> 
> 1) so you mean that if i have turbine i can't call cocoon?
> 2)i mean something like:  wrapping castor for instance as a 
> transformer!
> 
> thank you
> 
> ---Message original---
> 
> De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date : jeudi 27 juin 2002 17:11:31
> A : '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Sujet : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet
> 
> [Please, don't use HTML mails]
> 
> 1) you can't use only the pipeline from cocoon (at least, you 
> can't do it
> easily), but you can use cocoon itself from an application and not a
> servlet. You can use the command line environment for that or 
> create your
> own one.
> 
> 2) What do you mean?
> 
> Konstantin
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:08 PM
> To: cocoon user list
> Subject: using cocoon pipelines without servlet
> 
> 
> hi everybody,
> i've got 2 questions that could help me a lot:
> 1) can i extract the cocoon pipeling mecanism from cocoon 
> without using as a
> servlet? (i'm already using turbine and have a lot of code, 
> and what just to
> use the interesting pipelining of cocoon)!
> 
> 2) can i use a java object in the cocoon pipeline?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> IncrediMail - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer ici 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
>   IncrediMail - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - 
> Cliquer ici 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 

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RE: Ref. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Piroumian Konstantin]

Again, please, don't use HTML mails, they are not readable for some users.

>1) so you mean that if i have turbine i can't call cocoon?

I didn't say a word about turbine. That depends on the way you are going to
call Cocoon. Would you elaborate a little?

>2)i mean something like:  wrapping castor for instance as a transformer!

Take a look at the:
xml-cocoon\2.0.3\src\scratchpad\src\org\apache\cocoon\transformation\CastorT
ransformer.java is that what you need? 


-- 
Konstantin Piroumian 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Ref. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet


1) so you mean that if i have turbine i can't call cocoon?
2)i mean something like:  wrapping castor for instance as a transformer!

thank you

---Message original---

De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date : jeudi 27 juin 2002 17:11:31
A : '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Sujet : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Please, don't use HTML mails]

1) you can't use only the pipeline from cocoon (at least, you can't do it
easily), but you can use cocoon itself from an application and not a
servlet. You can use the command line environment for that or create your
own one.

2) What do you mean?

Konstantin

-Original Message-
From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:08 PM
To: cocoon user list
Subject: using cocoon pipelines without servlet


hi everybody,
i've got 2 questions that could help me a lot:
1) can i extract the cocoon pipeling mecanism from cocoon without using as a
servlet? (i'm already using turbine and have a lot of code, and what just to
use the interesting pipelining of cocoon)!

2) can i use a java object in the cocoon pipeline?

thanks



IncrediMail - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer ici 

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.



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RE: open xml in .js

[Piroumian Konstantin]

> From: Cocoon User [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> 
> cocoon try to make xsl transformation

And then?

> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Piroumian Konstantin wrote:
> 
> > > From: Cocoon User [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 6:56 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: open xml in .js
> > >
> > >
> > > i have a .xml web site
> > >
> > >  serve it  using cocoon
> > >
> > > into a .xml file i have information i want to use as data
> > > into an .js file
> > > using the following code
> > >
> > > gD.async=false; M
> > > gD.load("celebrations.xml");M
> > > gD.setProperty("SelectionLanguage", "XPath")M
> > >
> > >
> > > using ie6 (local) i get all .xml into gD object
> > >
> > > serving my pages using cocoon
> > > after those line
> > >
> > > gD appear to be an empty object
> > >
> > > any help/idea?
> > >
> >
> > Check that you can get that file when you simply type
> > "http:celebrations.xml" in browser.
> >
> > --
> > Konstantin Piroumian
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > stavros kounis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> -
> > > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. 
> 
> > >
> > > To 
> unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:   
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> >
> > 
> -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> 
> >
> > To 
> unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> 

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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Andre Cusson]

Hi,

Just a small comment but I feel that a lot of the problem issues, and
especially some of the complexity might be tied to where and how Cocoon sets
the the interface between Java and XSLT.  I have many examples in mind but
in general I feel that more of the framework should be in xslt and that if
every time you need to do something, you have to go back and forth between
java and xslt, you will be duplicating data structures and adding overhead
and logic issues, apart from tricky technological and mind frame switching
issues.

Both Java and XSLT are important and they are complementary but this
complementarity requires a design interface, not just an API (or a set of
APIs).

Still Cocoon is very interesting and a dynamic collaboration.

Thank you,
Regards,
ac




-Message d'origine-
De : Argyn Kuketayev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Envoye : 27 juin, 2002 09:57
A : '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Objet : RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing


> -Original Message-
> From: Piroumian Konstantin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:41 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
>
>
> > From: Argyn Kuketayev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >
> > Good post :)
> >
> > Wake up, guys! John raised a real issue. You can't simply say
> > "Don't give
> > up, be patient, read mailing-list, look into sources..." and
> > so on. If you
> > want this framework to catch the train, then there must be
> > better support
>
> What do you mean by "better support"?


Maybe I'm suffering from dislexia, but reading the docs in
xml.apache.org/cocoon helped me only to understand the highest level
concepts. There were lots of tiny little issues which are not covered
anywhere  in the documentation. "What's the best way to do this and this?".
No answers anywhere but here, in the mailing list. Ok, I have a habit to
look into sources when I've time, but sometimes there's no time. You came
here and ask a question, hopefully soon you get an answer. Then comes
another issue, then another and so on. Finally, you spend whole day on some
stupid problem which could be resolved with good FAQ.

I have to admit that things are improving with docs. FAQs are becoming real
FAQs, not those short "read mailing list" as they were before. IBM's
tutorials are a very positive step, I recommend them to everybody. They help
a lot. Again, I'm not complaining I just want to say that there's an issue,
and I'm glad that the situation with documentation is improving. I think
that the biggest issue with Cocoon is its docs.

>
> > and better documentation.
> >
> > I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
> > framework.
>
> So, help us make it better.

raising the issue is my help :)

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RE: open xml in .js

[Cocoon User]

cocoon try to make xsl transformation



On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Piroumian Konstantin wrote:

> > From: Cocoon User [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 6:56 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: open xml in .js
> >
> >
> > i have a .xml web site
> >
> >  serve it  using cocoon
> >
> > into a .xml file i have information i want to use as data
> > into an .js file
> > using the following code
> >
> > gD.async=false; M
> > gD.load("celebrations.xml");M
> > gD.setProperty("SelectionLanguage", "XPath")M
> >
> >
> > using ie6 (local) i get all .xml into gD object
> >
> > serving my pages using cocoon
> > after those line
> >
> > gD appear to be an empty object
> >
> > any help/idea?
> >
>
> Check that you can get that file when you simply type
> "http:celebrations.xml" in browser.
>
> --
> Konstantin Piroumian
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > stavros kounis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>


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Réf. : RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Othman Haddad]

  1) so you mean that if i have turbine i can't call cocoon?
  2)i mean something like:  wrapping castor for instance as a 
  transformer!
   
  thank you
   
  ---Message original---
   
  
  De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date : jeudi 27 juin 
  2002 17:11:31
  A : '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
  Sujet : RE: using 
  cocoon pipelines without servlet
   [Please, don't use HTML mails]1) you can't use 
  only the pipeline from cocoon (at least, you can't do iteasily), but 
  you can use cocoon itself from an application and not aservlet. You 
  can use the command line environment for that or create yourown 
  one.2) What do you mean?Konstantin-Original 
  Message-From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:08 PMTo: cocoon user 
  listSubject: using cocoon pipelines without servlethi 
  everybody,i've got 2 questions that could help me a lot:1) can i 
  extract the cocoon pipeling mecanism from cocoon without using as 
  aservlet? (i'm already using turbine and have a lot of code, and what 
  just touse the interesting pipelining of cocoon)!2) can i use 
  a java object in the cocoon 
  pipeline?thanksIncrediMail 
  - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer ici 
  -Please 
  check that your question has not already been answered in theFAQ 
  before posting. To 
  unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>For 
  additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




  IncrediMail - 
La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer 
ici

RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Eric Sheffer]

I completely agree with Argyn's and John's comments here.
But, I don't think the sentiments expressed are unique to 
the cocoon project.

I'm a big proponent of open source software.  I try to use it
and recommend it whenever I can.  However, I can't spend two 
weeks just getting up to speed on something.  I have to be 
productive quite soon after picking it up. I'm busying 50 to 
60 hours a week doing what my job demands of me, so I don't 
have a lot of extra time to devote to learning how to use a 
product, much less debugging or coding one.

I still want to stay ahead of the curve, and learn new things
and use new technologies.  But, many open source projects
make this very difficult.  So if I could be presumptuous, here 
are some suggestions I'll offer to make life a little easier
on us early adopters:

(1) Don't create a new nomenclature, language or jargon to 
describe your project.  The world has enough acronyms, 
marketing-speak and inpenetrable software descriptions.  Don't 
add to it.  When describing your project, compare and 
contrast it with other products the reader may be familiar
with.

(2) Don't assume the people who use a product or ask
questions on a mailing list are the second coming of James
Gosling or Bill Joy.  If you answer a question posed on the
list, go a little bit more in depth so that others who may
be reading the threads might be able to learn something.

(3) Don't skimp on documentation, and in doing so, be mindful
of (1) and (2).  When providing examples, do something a bit
more useful than yet another "Hello, World" example. Provide
more than one example, and make them progessively more complex,
building on previous examples as you go.

(4) Don't get overly defensive when responding to criticism.
And, don't respond with the typical open source developer
knee-jerk reaction of "Why don't you help out?"  Not everyone
is in a position to provide the time and effort necessary for
a meaningful contribution.  Don't dismiss the concerns of 
those who don't or can't participate.

(5) Beware of the warning signs, like those expressed in John's
message.  He obviously isn't an idiot, and has invested some
time and effort trying to learn and use cocoon.  Yet, he's 
having trouble making cocoon useful.  That should be a wake
up call.

(6) Don't assume that everyone should use a product because 
it's open source, and that it's better than closed source or 
commercial products because it's open.  If a product doesn't 
perform well or is difficult to learn, use or implement, what
good does being open source?  Before answering, refer to (4).


These points are based on observations of the Apache project 
I've made over the last several years.  I applaud the efforts
of those who've invested the time and effort on the various 
subprojects.  Many are among the most useful pieces of software
in my arsenal, like ant, log4j and struts.  Others have finally
come around, like tomcat which I found unusable until v3.
Cocoon is an intriguing product.  But, who will use it if 
they can't understand how?

Eric



--

On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:41:18  
 Piroumian Konstantin wrote:
>> From: Argyn Kuketayev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>> 
>> Good post :)
>> 
>> Wake up, guys! John raised a real issue. You can't simply say 
>> "Don't give
>> up, be patient, read mailing-list, look into sources..." and 
>> so on. If you
>> want this framework to catch the train, then there must be 
>> better support
>
>What do you mean by "better support"? 
>
>> and better documentation. 
>> 
>> I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
>> framework.
>
>So, help us make it better. 
>If you have ideas on how to improve Cocoon iself then welcome to cocoon-dev
>mail list, if you are willing to have/provide suggestions on making the docs
>better or write some then join the Forrest project.
>
>Konstantin
>
>> 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: John Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:41 PM
>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I'm back from a short vacation in beautiful Chicago (it 
>> > really is much 
>> > nicer than Toronto or Montreal) and have waded back in to 
>> > Cocoon for a 
>> > couple of days.
>> > 
>> > After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that 
>> > it will be 
>> > much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of 
>> servlets 
>> > than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's 
>> documentation.
>> 
>> Two days is absolutely not enough to get a grasp of Cocoon, 
>> definitely.
>> Unless, you are a twin brother of Stephano :)
>> 
>> -
>> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
>> FAQ before posting. 
>> 
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RE: using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Piroumian Konstantin]

[Please, don't use HTML mails]

1) you can't use only the pipeline from cocoon (at least, you can't do it
easily), but you can use cocoon itself from an application and not a
servlet. You can use the command line environment for that or create your
own one.

2) What do you mean?

Konstantin

-Original Message-
From: Othman Haddad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:08 PM
To: cocoon user list
Subject: using cocoon pipelines without servlet


hi everybody,
i've got 2 questions that could help me a lot:
1) can i extract the cocoon pipeling mecanism from cocoon without using as a
servlet? (i'm already using turbine and have a lot of code, and what just to
use the interesting pipelining of cocoon)!

2) can i use a java object in the cocoon pipeline?

thanks



  IncrediMail - La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer ici 

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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Artur Bialecki]

> -Original Message-
> From: Argyn Kuketayev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:32 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
> 
> 
> Good post :)
> 
> Wake up, guys! John raised a real issue. You can't simply say "Don't give
> up, be patient, read mailing-list, look into sources..." and so on. If you
> want this framework to catch the train, then there must be better support
> and better documentation. 
> 
> I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
> framework.

I agree as well. It's nice when you have time to tinker, wait
for useful replies from the mailling list or search the archives and
wade through messages that most likely talk about version you're not
using. It's nice to have time to look at source code and hope what
you learn will still hold in the next version. Unfortunately,
a lot of developers have very little time and don't want
to spend all of their "well wasted time" on Cocoon. This is not
about open-source vs closed-source, this about making Cocoon
usefull to everyone. Yes, I know I can help by pathching, writing
docs, answering questions on mailing lists (I sometimes do the last one),
but that requires time that I, and many other developers, don't have.

New features/design is nice but I'm already affraid I will have to
go through same HELL moving from 2.0.2 to 2.1 as I did when moving
from 1.8.x to 2.0.2. Please tell me that I'm crazy and that
all I'll have to do is drop in a new jar(s) and edit my cocoon.xconf.
I'm not crazy and I'll probably have to do a lot more and 
there wont be a migration guide to tell me what to do.

Cocoon is great, cocoon developers/community is great, but
I'm tired of explaining to VPs and clinets that Cocoon's
benefits outweights its lack of documentation and API stability.
These people would like to know that it will not cost them
3 months of extra development time, because their in house
Cocoon expret was hit by a bus.

So, IMO if you want Cocoon to succeed in medium/big business
all you have to do is write lots of helpful docs. The upcoming
books are a good start, but thinks like API JavaDocs with
actual comments for each package/class/method and installation
migration and user docs need to be released with each version.

Artur...

-- 
All I want is to use Cocoon.



> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:41 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
> > 
> > 
> > I'm back from a short vacation in beautiful Chicago (it 
> > really is much 
> > nicer than Toronto or Montreal) and have waded back in to 
> > Cocoon for a 
> > couple of days.
> > 
> > After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that 
> > it will be 
> > much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets 
> > than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.
> 
> Two days is absolutely not enough to get a grasp of Cocoon, definitely.
> Unless, you are a twin brother of Stephano :)
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> 

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using cocoon pipelines without servlet

[Othman Haddad]

  hi everybody,
  i've got 2 questions that could help me a lot:
  1) can i extract the cocoon pipeling mecanism from cocoon without 
  using as a servlet? (i'm already using turbine and have a lot of code, and 
  what just to use the interesting pipelining of cocoon)!
   
  2) can i use a java object in the cocoon pipeline?
   
  thanks





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




  IncrediMail - 
La messagerie électronique a enfin évolué - Cliquer 
ici

RE: open xml in .js

[Piroumian Konstantin]

> From: Cocoon User [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 6:56 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: open xml in .js
> 
> 
> i have a .xml web site
> 
>  serve it  using cocoon
> 
> into a .xml file i have information i want to use as data 
> into an .js file
> using the following code
> 
> gD.async=false; M
> gD.load("celebrations.xml");M
> gD.setProperty("SelectionLanguage", "XPath")M
> 
> 
> using ie6 (local) i get all .xml into gD object
> 
> serving my pages using cocoon
> after those line
> 
> gD appear to be an empty object
> 
> any help/idea?
> 

Check that you can get that file when you simply type
"http:celebrations.xml" in browser.

--
Konstantin Piroumian 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> stavros kounis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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open xml in .js

[Cocoon User]

i have a .xml web site

 serve it  using cocoon

into a .xml file i have information i want to use as data into an .js file
using the following code

gD.async=false; M
gD.load("celebrations.xml");M
gD.setProperty("SelectionLanguage", "XPath")M


using ie6 (local) i get all .xml into gD object

serving my pages using cocoon
after those line

gD appear to be an empty object

any help/idea?



thanks

stavros kounis







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Re: Does anyone remember cocoon 1.8?

[Marty McClelland]

I haven't installed 1.8 in a while - and from my memory - this looks like
the kind of error I got when I didn't follow the installation instructions
carefully ( i.e. jars not in the right directory, or not loaded in the
appropriate sequence,  )

Have you searched the archives?

marty
- Original Message -
From: "Paul Gilligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: Does anyone remember cocoon 1.8?


> I have switched to an "out of the box" cocoon 1,8 that coomes with SuSE
8.0
> and I get:
>
> java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading logicsheet at
> resource://org/apache/cocoon/processor/xsp/library/java/util.xsl due to
> java.lang.Exception: Resource not found or retrieving error.
>
> Now I am sure that this is a std problem and someone can tell me how to
> sort this out without me
> having to dig too deep :)
>
> What I am working on is using the new Oracle 9.2 XML repository and a
> standard cocoon production version (1.8)
> and the JDK 1.3 that comes with it -hence I do not want to have todo too
> much work on the cocoon side.
>
> Then I will be adapting the docbook DTD to work with Oracle and then use
> cocoon to publish.
>
> Now here is the crunch!! I can easily do a little programming to with
> Oracle to make a content management
> frame work :)
>
> Has any one else looked at Oracle 9.2 XML?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>


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Why Tomcat 3.2.3 error ?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hi all,

I cannot get this all day :

My latest CVS build C2 ( 25 jun ) runs OK on Tomcat 4.0.3
but does not startup in Tomcat 3.2.3.

On this Tomcat 3.2.3 I have earlier builds of C2( 1-2 months) running O.K.

I am running cocoon thru Contexts ( outside tomcat/webapps) .
ANY help / advise deeply appreciated

Sandhu

This is the error :

Cocoon 2 - Internal server error
type fatal
message null
description java.lang.NullPointerException
sender org.apache.cocoon.servlet.CocoonServlet
source Cocoon servlet
stack-trace
java.lang.NullPointerException
 at org.apache.cocoon.servlet.CocoonServlet.service(CocoonServlet.java:999)
 at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:853)
 at org.apache.tomcat.core.ServletWrapper.doService(ServletWrapper.java:405)
 at org.apache.tomcat.core.Handler.service(Handler.java:287)
 at org.apache.tomcat.core.ServletWrapper.service(ServletWrapper.java:372)
 at
org.apache.tomcat.core.ContextManager.internalService(ContextManager.java:81
2)
 at org.apache.tomcat.core.ContextManager.service(ContextManager.java:758)
 at
org.apache.tomcat.service.http.HttpConnectionHandler.processConnection(HttpC
onnectionHandler.java:213)
 at
org.apache.tomcat.service.TcpWorkerThread.runIt(PoolTcpEndpoint.java:416)
 at
org.apache.tomcat.util.ThreadPool$ControlRunnable.run(ThreadPool.java:501)
 at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:484)

request-uri
/cocoon/
path-info




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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Argyn Kuketayev]

> -Original Message-
> From: Piroumian Konstantin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:41 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
> 
> 
> > From: Argyn Kuketayev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > 
> > Good post :)
> > 
> > Wake up, guys! John raised a real issue. You can't simply say 
> > "Don't give
> > up, be patient, read mailing-list, look into sources..." and 
> > so on. If you
> > want this framework to catch the train, then there must be 
> > better support
> 
> What do you mean by "better support"? 


Maybe I'm suffering from dislexia, but reading the docs in
xml.apache.org/cocoon helped me only to understand the highest level
concepts. There were lots of tiny little issues which are not covered
anywhere  in the documentation. "What's the best way to do this and this?".
No answers anywhere but here, in the mailing list. Ok, I have a habit to
look into sources when I've time, but sometimes there's no time. You came
here and ask a question, hopefully soon you get an answer. Then comes
another issue, then another and so on. Finally, you spend whole day on some
stupid problem which could be resolved with good FAQ. 

I have to admit that things are improving with docs. FAQs are becoming real
FAQs, not those short "read mailing list" as they were before. IBM's
tutorials are a very positive step, I recommend them to everybody. They help
a lot. Again, I'm not complaining I just want to say that there's an issue,
and I'm glad that the situation with documentation is improving. I think
that the biggest issue with Cocoon is its docs.

> 
> > and better documentation. 
> > 
> > I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
> > framework.
> 
> So, help us make it better. 

raising the issue is my help :) 

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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Piroumian Konstantin]

> From: Argyn Kuketayev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> 
> Good post :)
> 
> Wake up, guys! John raised a real issue. You can't simply say 
> "Don't give
> up, be patient, read mailing-list, look into sources..." and 
> so on. If you
> want this framework to catch the train, then there must be 
> better support

What do you mean by "better support"? 

> and better documentation. 
> 
> I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
> framework.

So, help us make it better. 
If you have ideas on how to improve Cocoon iself then welcome to cocoon-dev
mail list, if you are willing to have/provide suggestions on making the docs
better or write some then join the Forrest project.

Konstantin

> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:41 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
> > 
> > 
> > I'm back from a short vacation in beautiful Chicago (it 
> > really is much 
> > nicer than Toronto or Montreal) and have waded back in to 
> > Cocoon for a 
> > couple of days.
> > 
> > After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that 
> > it will be 
> > much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of 
> servlets 
> > than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's 
> documentation.
> 
> Two days is absolutely not enough to get a grasp of Cocoon, 
> definitely.
> Unless, you are a twin brother of Stephano :)
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 

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"(possible context problem)" after moving application out from Cocoon tree

[Andrei Svirida]

Hello Cocooners,

I have a following problem : i had a cocoon application running at /testapp and
everything worked fine.

After moving the application to c:\testapp i updated the entry in my
main sitemap.xmap to


  

---

Now i get an error
---
java.lang.RuntimeException: testapp/docs/forms/login-form.xml could not be found. 
(possible context problem)
---

I have some form validation code in my application wich uses
form descriptor in c:\testapp\docs\forms\form1.xml
and i reference to this descriptor with
--

--.

Its obvious that this code causes the error.

Is there some way to solve this problem other then saying:
--

-- ?

I would greatly appreciate any tip




--
Andrei Svirida, Projekte & Entwicklung
MIDRAY GmbH - a debitel company
Phone:  +49.221.8884 435 
Fax:+49.221.8884 455

http://www.midray.com/


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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Argyn Kuketayev]

Good post :)

Wake up, guys! John raised a real issue. You can't simply say "Don't give
up, be patient, read mailing-list, look into sources..." and so on. If you
want this framework to catch the train, then there must be better support
and better documentation. 

I'm not complaining, by the way. I'd love Cocoon become a mainstream
framework.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:41 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
> 
> 
> I'm back from a short vacation in beautiful Chicago (it 
> really is much 
> nicer than Toronto or Montreal) and have waded back in to 
> Cocoon for a 
> couple of days.
> 
> After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that 
> it will be 
> much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets 
> than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.

Two days is absolutely not enough to get a grasp of Cocoon, definitely.
Unless, you are a twin brother of Stephano :)

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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Hunsberger, Peter]

> After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that it will be 
> much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets 
> than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.

John, 

it took me almost 2 weeks to go from 0 to 60 using Tomcat, JBoss, and Cocoon
(with the 1.4 SDK complicating matters), our previous environment was IIS
and Websphere.  Having built many servlet based systems I can tell you that
the learning curve was worth it.  

The servlet based version of our current system took over 4 person years to
build and has about half as much functionality as what we are currently
aiming for with the Cocoon based system in about twice as much code.  A
complete rewrite using Cocoon was simpler than extending the current system.
Cocoon has already shaved probably 6 person months or more off of what would
otherwise have been a 2.5 person year project (4 people on the current
project, 6 on the original version).

Yes things are disorganized at the moment, but the solution is simple: don't
try and understand everything up front.  Instead, take it one step at a time
and research each gotcha with the multitude of resources that are available
(the mail list archive and Google are your friends).  Subscribe to the
mailing list and watch the messages go by.  By the time you get to the point
where you need a certain feature there will most likely have been enough
discussion on the mailing list that you already know what to look for.

Of course your mileage may vary, if you're trying to build a couple of
simple web pages with no requirement for reusability or multiple data
transforms then the learning curve may not save you anything (this time
around).

But then again, I always preferred VM over MVS...:-)

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RE: sent map parameters into another sitemap

[Piroumian Konstantin]

> From: zze-STIENNE Nicolas FTRD/DMI/CAE 
> 
> ok...
> and with 2.0.2, there is absolutely no solution to sent a 
> parameter to a sub-sitemap ?

There can't be "absolutely no solution" in open source: you can add the
needed functionality yourself, but if you describe why do you need then
maybe somebody will propose another quicker solution.

> and is that normal, I get no error message ?

When specifing parameters to mount? Yes. Most of the sitemap elements are
parametrizable, but in map:mount they simply ignored.

Konstantin

> 
> > De : Piroumian Konstantin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> > > From: zze-STIENNE Nicolas FTRD/DMI/CAE 
> > > 
> > > I tried the solution you give but it don't seams to work (for me).
> > > No error message comes, I just don't obtain the values of the 
> > > parameters.
> > > 
> > > Note: Tomcat4.0.4, W2000, JDK1.3.1_3, Cocoon2.0.2-scr ( I 
> > > know you said "only in 2.1-dev version" but my Cocoon 
> > > start-page indicates "version 2.1-dev" )
> > > 
> > > Otherwise, did I well understand ? 
> > 
> > To be exact: only in 2.1-dev version from CVS HEAD branch and 
> > only with
> > TreeProcessor as the sitemap engine.
> > 
> > Don't know why do you have 2.1-dev in the start-page, in 
> 2.0.3 version
> > everything's correct.
> > 
> > Konstantin
> > 
> > > 
> > > In my parent sitemap : 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >> > uri-prefix="{1}/{2}/soussite" reload-method="synchron">
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > [..]
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > and in soussite/sitemap.xmap:
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > >   
> > >   
> > >   
> > >   
> > > 
> > >   
> > > [..]
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > thanks...
> > > Nicolas !!
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hi all!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Does is possible sent sitemap parameters into mounted sitenap 
> > > > > like this:
> > > > > 
> > > > >  > > > > reload-method="synchron">
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yes!!!
> > > > 
> > > > ...but only in 2.1-dev version.
> > > > Use this in your subsitemap:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > >  > > > value="some-default-value" />
> > > > ...
> > > > 
> > > > KP
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanx.
> > > > > Yury.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> -
> > > > > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> > > > answered in the
> > > > > FAQ before posting. 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
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> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> -
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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Andrew et al.

Andrew ... thanks for the kind words ... and yes I am co-authoring a book
on Cocoon 2 due out on October 18. http://www.netswirl.com/publications.htm
for details.

John Austin's message that triggered this thread was exactly
what I felt and experienced when I started working on Cocoon.
His message expressed very effectively what I felt and thought ...
however I could not put down what my words on the mailing list,
because I can cuss and swear in three different languages!!! :-) and
I did not want to offend users on the list ... I am quite sure no
one wanted to read that kind of feedback on this mailing list.

The reason I got into Cocoon was solely to co-author this book.
If it was not the goal of the project then who knows I may have
given up many months ago.

I have worked on many projects (software enhancements and code maintenance)
where there were absolutely no documentation and the original developers
were not around anymore.  The Cocoon project does have documentation
that has evolved over time so I did not consider this an unsurmountable
challenge.  The configuration files have sufficient examples and notes
for anyone with enough of years of experience (and the time and motivation)
to dig deeper, connect the dots and understand the system.  Someone of
John Austin's calibre and work experience should not have much trouble after
climbing the initial hump of the learning curve.

My motivation was moving forward in my understanding of Cocoon and
fulfilling my obligations to the publisher.  Having spent the
last 5 months finding my way around, I can truly say that with the
proper nuturing, support and documentation, Cocoon 2 will be adopted
widely and make inroads into the developer community.

We tried to make the coverage of the topics a chronicle of our experiences
learning Cocoon for the first time.  It is a stepwise documentation of
the steps we took to understand Cocoon from a very high level and it's
place in the grand scheme of web publishing and content/document management.  
Subsequent chapters by myself and my co-authors went
through the stages of systematically building examples to target
common software projects.  Our book can be used as a primer to help
users get started in Cocoon and then use the blocks like a leggo set
and their own experience and maturity in the field to extrapolate
and build more complex systems.

At last count there were four books to be released in the next few months.
These books from my understanding be adequate documentation of the Cocoon 2 sytems.  
There will no doubt be advanced books written once the initial
wave of books help developers find their bearings and mature in their
understanding of the system.

I can also vouche for the excellent support and encouragement from experts
on this list.  Their insight and support helped me along the way.  If I named
everyone this message would go out of bounds.  Even if you don't have a specific 
question, just following along with any thread will help
you understand specific topics that you can then use to experiment with
and expand to create your own functioning system.

Subject to me finding sometime, I will try and volunteer to expand some
of the Cocoon documentation on the Apache web site.  There was a request
for assistance a few months back when I was overwhelmed with my work,
and I will try and find the person who had put out the message and offer
some kind of help.

John, I hope the feedback helps to put things into perspective.  I can
truly say Cocoon is not that difficult to understand.  Perhaps you can
revisit the testing of the system when the books have hit the market.

Best wishes to all and keep Cocooning !!
Conrad D'Cruz

Original Message:
-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:18:29 -0400
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing


>
>
>After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that it will be
>much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets
>than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.
>Fifteen hours on the Interstate wasn't as challenging as trying to
>figure out how one should check a Web Form this month but I didn't have
>that feeling of travelling backwards half of the time. I was also able
>to predict and achieve forward progress (for a change).
>
>
I hope you had a nice trip.  Web Form stuff is a bit beta at the moment,
so you'll need to
excercise patience and a willingness to help.

>Thanks guys, but no thanks.
>
>
>Maybe I'm getting old, but I really don't understand the need for all
>of the complexity and the lack of documentation in this product.
>
>
Perhaps its not a product at all, maybe its a software development
community and a project all
wrapped up into one.

>On the other hand, I used to feel the same way about the mind-numbing
>complexity of a certain thirty-year-old mainframe operating system
>(MVS) produced by IBM back in t

Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Ivelin Ivanov]

Good words Andrew.



Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>
>>
>> After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that it will be 
>> much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets 
>> than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.
>> Fifteen hours on the Interstate wasn't as challenging as trying to 
>> figure out how one should check a Web Form this month but I didn't 
>> have that feeling of travelling backwards half of the time. I was also 
>> able to predict and achieve forward progress (for a change).
>>  
>>
> I hope you had a nice trip.  Web Form stuff is a bit beta at the moment, 
> so you'll need to
> excercise patience and a willingness to help.
> 
>> Thanks guys, but no thanks.  
>>
>> Maybe I'm getting old, but I really don't understand the need for all 
>> of the complexity and the lack of documentation in this product.
>>  
>>
> Perhaps its not a product at all, maybe its a software development 
> community and a project all
> wrapped up into one.
> 
>> On the other hand, I used to feel the same way about the mind-numbing 
>> complexity of a certain thirty-year-old mainframe operating system 
>> (MVS) produced by IBM back in the sixties and it's patching system 
>> (SMP4). So it can't just be my age.
>> Anyway, Cocoon has cost me far morte (a typo that's better than the
> 
> You seem lively to me.
> 
>> original word) time than it was worth. The chief problems appear to 
>> have been endlessly re-invented terminology for an overwhelming number 
>> of 'new concepts' and a complete lack of consistency between different 
>> components (i.e. functional code, non-functional examples, unbuildable 
>> documentation and a website that doesn't match up with any single 
>> released version of the project).
>>  
>>
> So did you fix them?  Did you raise these points and offer to help?
> 
>> I have a lot of respect for the ability of the people who have built 
>> this project, but I want them to know that their project appears to be 
>> out-of-control and could become very difficult to manage. If 
>> experienced developers (like myself) can't figure out how to use 
>> enough features in the product to make it worth using, then 
>> penetration will be limited and all of your efforts will be wasted. 
>> There is more to this business than stuffing in features at the 
>> expense of documentation and testing. You have a lot of very good 
>> ideas, but the execution of the project as a whole seems to be suffering.
>>  
>>
> I'm significantly less experienced and I figured a large amount of it out.
> 
> You: "Oh I can't figure it out I'm leaving"
> 
> Me: "How do I?"   "What is a?"  And I'm working on creating an 
> example webapp
> (http://www.superlinksoftware.com/cocoon/samples/bringmethis/index.html) 
> that utilizes
> forms, etc.  I'll accompany it (NOT RIGHT AWAY) with explanations and 
> documentation
> (written in plain English).
> 
>> I know that I will often look at my JSP and servlet code and think 
>> 'XSP and Cocoon were sooo much better!' until I remember that I wasn't 
>> ever able to use enough of Cocoon to make a profit.
>>
> 
> I run Cocoon in fairly low amount of memory.  Certainly more than JSP 
> and a Servlet, but then again
> when I load the Connection pooling, caching, and other services a 
> serious JSP application would require,
> I'm not so sure it comes that far ahead
> 
> While I agree with many of your criticisms, especially the Avalonian 
> (language of the Avalon->
> Cocoon developers) and lack of meaningful documentation, I adamntly 
> believe that the problem here
> lies within you. 
> This is participatory software.  You didn't pay for it.  You don't get 
> to call up Microsoft support and
> scream at them and wonder why they come back at you 2 weeks later with 
> the wrong answer and
> "wait for service pack 2 for a fix".  You fix it.  If you're lucky, you 
> fix it in collaboration with others!
> 
> Next, as I get older I get more patient.  I'd hate to see how impatient 
> you were at my age or Wow.
> There are MULTIPLE books coming out on Cocoon, some by its very 
> developers others by great
> folks like Conrad D'Cruz.  In the next few months, such things will be 
> clearer.
> 
> Personally, I think if you have this attitude "If I can't figure it out 
> it must suck and I'll take my cookies and
> go home" then I think you're contributing to this software development 
> community in the best possible
> way you ever could.leaving it before you break something.  If you're 
> perhaps new to opensource
> community-based development, maybe you should ask for help and take some 
> more time to read up on the
> subject.  You'll find if you expend the effort, folks can be downright 
> friendly and helpful.  Of course
> its up to you.  And psychological theory indicates you'll read this and 
> disregard it.  So I'm more writing it
> for the next person that comes along.  Hope this helps!
> 
> -Andy
> 
>> Oh, well, at least all

Xindice and Cocoon

[Cenk Uysal]

Hi,

I try to use Xindice as my XML source database. I know that Cocoon
has special generators for this purpose. But I try to do this by the
help of JSP(don't ask why :)). So we prepared a library which allows
us to connect Xindice from JSP and get XML content by Xpath function
that we enter.
Here is a sample JSP:

<%@ page language='java'%>
<%@ taglib uri="deu-taglib.tld" prefix="deu"%>

  

  


Here  and  tags are defined by us. They
make a connection to Xindice and get the XML with restrictions given
in  tag. 

Normally, this code runs in ROOT directory of Tomcat. But I want to
run this JSP code by the help of JSP generator. But I get
JSPGenerator problem from Cocoon.

I think I can't reach Xindice because this time JSP must be under
Cocoon directory. I know normally JspGenerator runs without problem.

What can be the problem?

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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RE: negative time with Profiling on 2.1-Dev (was NPEwithProfiling on 2.1-Dev)

[Carsten Ziegeler]

Just an update, I refactored the profiling code, now it works
with the ProfilingCaching implementation as well and even readers
should be supported now.

Carsten

> -Original Message-
> From: Bruce Krautbauer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 4:00 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: negative time with Profiling on 2.1-Dev (was
> NPEwithProfiling on 2.1-Dev)
> 
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> Yes, I was using ProfilingCaching.  I switched to 
> ProfilingNoncaching and the negative times go away.
> 
> I had not tried non-caching before.  It gives you a very good 
> appreciation for the *caching* version.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bruce
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/26/02 01:31AM >>>
> Do you use the ProfilingCaching implementation? If so, please
> try the non caching version as there might be some concerns
> with profiling and caching.
> 
> Carsten
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> 

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Re: startup the cocoon-2.1-dev error -solved

[yuryx]

Sorry by spam...

Regards.
Yury.



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RE: sent map parameters into another sitemap

[zze-STIENNE Nicolas FTRD/DMI/CAE]

ok...
and with 2.0.2, there is absolutely no solution to sent a parameter to a sub-sitemap ?
and is that normal, I get no error message ?

> De : Piroumian Konstantin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

> > From: zze-STIENNE Nicolas FTRD/DMI/CAE 
> > 
> > I tried the solution you give but it don't seams to work (for me).
> > No error message comes, I just don't obtain the values of the 
> > parameters.
> > 
> > Note: Tomcat4.0.4, W2000, JDK1.3.1_3, Cocoon2.0.2-scr ( I 
> > know you said "only in 2.1-dev version" but my Cocoon 
> > start-page indicates "version 2.1-dev" )
> > 
> > Otherwise, did I well understand ? 
> 
> To be exact: only in 2.1-dev version from CVS HEAD branch and 
> only with
> TreeProcessor as the sitemap engine.
> 
> Don't know why do you have 2.1-dev in the start-page, in 2.0.3 version
> everything's correct.
> 
> Konstantin
> 
> > 
> > In my parent sitemap : 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> uri-prefix="{1}/{2}/soussite" reload-method="synchron">
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > [..]
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > and in soussite/sitemap.xmap:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> >   
> > [..]
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > thanks...
> > Nicolas !!
> > 
> > > > 
> > > > Hi all!
> > > > 
> > > > Does is possible sent sitemap parameters into mounted sitenap 
> > > > like this:
> > > > 
> > > >  > > > reload-method="synchron">
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes!!!
> > > 
> > > ...but only in 2.1-dev version.
> > > Use this in your subsitemap:
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > >> > value="some-default-value" />
> > >   ...
> > > 
> > > KP
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Thanx.
> > > > Yury.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> -
> > > > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> > > answered in the
> > > > FAQ before posting. 
> > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:   
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 

> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
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> 
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> 

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startup the cocoon-2.1-dev error

[yuryx]

Hi all!

I'm just downloads from CVS the latest version of cocoon.
after the make (with jdk1.3.1_v2)  & installing cocoon.war on 
tomcat-4.0.4 I'm try :
http://localhost:8088/cocoon/
and get the following error:
_The server encountered an internal error (Internal Server Error) that 
prevented it from fulfilling this request._

javax.servlet.ServletException: Servlet.init() for servlet Cocoon2 threw exception
at 
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapper.loadServlet(StandardWrapper.java:947)
at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapper.allocate(StandardWrapper.java:655)
at 
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java:214
...

in root cause:
java.lang.NoSuchMethodError
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.source.impl.DelayedRefreshSourceWrapper.discardValidity(DelayedRefreshSourceWrapper.java:148)
at org.apache.cocoon.Cocoon.configure(Cocoon.java:330)
at org.apache.cocoon.Cocoon.initialize(Cocoon.java:271)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.servlet.CocoonServlet.createCocoon(CocoonServlet.java:1237)
at org.apache.cocoon.servlet.CocoonServlet.init(CocoonServlet.java:435)
at 
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapper.loadServlet(StandardWrapper.java:918)
at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapper.allocate(StandardWrapper.java:655)
...

I'm sorry, but where I'm wrong?
(in server.xml
   


:)
)

Thanx.
Yury.






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RE: sent map parameters into another sitemap

[Piroumian Konstantin]

> From: zze-STIENNE Nicolas FTRD/DMI/CAE 
> 
> I tried the solution you give but it don't seams to work (for me).
> No error message comes, I just don't obtain the values of the 
> parameters.
> 
> Note: Tomcat4.0.4, W2000, JDK1.3.1_3, Cocoon2.0.2-scr ( I 
> know you said "only in 2.1-dev version" but my Cocoon 
> start-page indicates "version 2.1-dev" )
> 
> Otherwise, did I well understand ? 

To be exact: only in 2.1-dev version from CVS HEAD branch and only with
TreeProcessor as the sitemap engine.

Don't know why do you have 2.1-dev in the start-page, in 2.0.3 version
everything's correct.

Konstantin

> 
> In my parent sitemap : 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>uri-prefix="{1}/{2}/soussite" reload-method="synchron">
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [..]
> 
>   
> 
> and in soussite/sitemap.xmap:
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   
>   
>   
> 
>   
> [..]
> 
>   
> 
> thanks...
> Nicolas !!
> 
> > > 
> > > Hi all!
> > > 
> > > Does is possible sent sitemap parameters into mounted sitenap 
> > > like this:
> > > 
> > >  > > reload-method="synchron">
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Yes!!!
> > 
> > ...but only in 2.1-dev version.
> > Use this in your subsitemap:
> > 
> > 
> >   
> >  > value="some-default-value" />
> > ...
> > 
> > KP
> > 
> > > 
> > > Thanx.
> > > Yury.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> -
> > > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> > answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. 
> 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
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> 
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> 

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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Andrew C. Oliver]

>
>
>After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that it will be 
>much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets 
>than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.
>Fifteen hours on the Interstate wasn't as challenging as trying to 
>figure out how one should check a Web Form this month but I didn't have 
>that feeling of travelling backwards half of the time. I was also able 
>to predict and achieve forward progress (for a change).
>  
>
I hope you had a nice trip.  Web Form stuff is a bit beta at the moment, 
so you'll need to
excercise patience and a willingness to help.

>Thanks guys, but no thanks. 
>  
>
>Maybe I'm getting old, but I really don't understand the need for all 
>of the complexity and the lack of documentation in this product.
>  
>
Perhaps its not a product at all, maybe its a software development 
community and a project all
wrapped up into one.

>On the other hand, I used to feel the same way about the mind-numbing 
>complexity of a certain thirty-year-old mainframe operating system 
>(MVS) produced by IBM back in the sixties and it's patching system 
>(SMP4). So it can't just be my age. 
>
>Anyway, Cocoon has cost me far morte (a typo that's better than the 
>
You seem lively to me.

>original word) time than it was worth. The chief problems appear to 
>have been endlessly re-invented terminology for an overwhelming number 
>of 'new concepts' and a complete lack of consistency between different 
>components (i.e. functional code, non-functional examples, unbuildable 
>documentation and a website that doesn't match up with any single 
>released version of the project).
>  
>
So did you fix them?  Did you raise these points and offer to help?

>I have a lot of respect for the ability of the people who have built 
>this project, but I want them to know that their project appears to be 
>out-of-control and could become very difficult to manage. If 
>experienced developers (like myself) can't figure out how to use enough 
>features in the product to make it worth using, then penetration will 
>be limited and all of your efforts will be wasted. There is more to 
>this business than stuffing in features at the expense of documentation 
>and testing. You have a lot of very good ideas, but the execution of 
>the project as a whole seems to be suffering.
>  
>
I'm significantly less experienced and I figured a large amount of it out.

You: "Oh I can't figure it out I'm leaving"

Me: "How do I?"   "What is a?"  And I'm working on creating an 
example webapp
(http://www.superlinksoftware.com/cocoon/samples/bringmethis/index.html) 
that utilizes
forms, etc.  I'll accompany it (NOT RIGHT AWAY) with explanations and 
documentation
(written in plain English).

>I know that I will often look at my JSP and servlet code and think 'XSP 
>and Cocoon were sooo much better!' until I remember that I wasn't ever 
>able to use enough of Cocoon to make a profit.
>

I run Cocoon in fairly low amount of memory.  Certainly more than JSP 
and a Servlet, but then again
when I load the Connection pooling, caching, and other services a 
serious JSP application would require,
I'm not so sure it comes that far ahead

While I agree with many of your criticisms, especially the Avalonian 
(language of the Avalon->
Cocoon developers) and lack of meaningful documentation, I adamntly 
believe that the problem here
lies within you.  

This is participatory software.  You didn't pay for it.  You don't get 
to call up Microsoft support and
scream at them and wonder why they come back at you 2 weeks later with 
the wrong answer and
"wait for service pack 2 for a fix".  You fix it.  If you're lucky, you 
fix it in collaboration with others!

Next, as I get older I get more patient.  I'd hate to see how impatient 
you were at my age or Wow.
There are MULTIPLE books coming out on Cocoon, some by its very 
developers others by great
folks like Conrad D'Cruz.  In the next few months, such things will be 
clearer.

Personally, I think if you have this attitude "If I can't figure it out 
it must suck and I'll take my cookies and
go home" then I think you're contributing to this software development 
community in the best possible
way you ever could.leaving it before you break something.  If you're 
perhaps new to opensource
community-based development, maybe you should ask for help and take some 
more time to read up on the
subject.  You'll find if you expend the effort, folks can be downright 
friendly and helpful.  Of course
its up to you.  And psychological theory indicates you'll read this and 
disregard it.  So I'm more writing it
for the next person that comes along.  Hope this helps!

-Andy

>Oh, well, at least all of my test systems have bags of memory now!
>
>-
>Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
>FAQ before posting. 

Re: sent map parameters into another sitemap

[yuryx]

Oops!

"...but only in 2.1-dev version..."
Sorry...

Yury.


yuryx wrote:

> HI Konstantin!
>
> Thanx for a lot, but I'm get the following error:
>
> /Element 'global-parameters' is not allowed at 
> 
>file:/usr/local/jakarta/catalina-4.0.4/webapps/cocoon/mobicomk/protect/sitemap.xmap:34:27/
> 
>
>
> I'm try this:
>
>   
> 
>   
>
> Thanx.
> Yury.
>
>
>
> Piroumian Konstantin wrote:
>
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Yes!!!
>>
>> ...but only in 2.1-dev version.
>> Use this in your subsitemap:
>>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ...
>>
>> KP
>>
>>  
>>
>
>
>
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>




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Re: sent map parameters into another sitemap

[yuryx]

HI Konstantin!

Thanx for a lot, but I'm get the following error:

/Element 'global-parameters' is not allowed at 
file:/usr/local/jakarta/catalina-4.0.4/webapps/cocoon/mobicomk/protect/sitemap.xmap:34:27/
 


I'm try this:

   
 
   

Thanx.
Yury.



Piroumian Konstantin wrote:

>>
>>
>
>Yes!!!
>
>...but only in 2.1-dev version.
>Use this in your subsitemap:
>
>
>  
>   
>   ...
>
>KP
>
>  
>



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RE: sent map parameters into another sitemap

[zze-STIENNE Nicolas FTRD/DMI/CAE]

I tried the solution you give but it don't seams to work (for me).
No error message comes, I just don't obtain the values of the parameters.

Note: Tomcat4.0.4, W2000, JDK1.3.1_3, Cocoon2.0.2-scr ( I know you said "only in 
2.1-dev version" but my Cocoon start-page indicates "version 2.1-dev" )

Otherwise, did I well understand ? 

In my parent sitemap : 

  




  


  

[..]

  

and in soussite/sitemap.xmap:

 

  

  


  

  
[..]

  

thanks...
Nicolas !!

> > 
> > Hi all!
> > 
> > Does is possible sent sitemap parameters into mounted sitenap 
> > like this:
> > 
> >  > reload-method="synchron">
> > 
> > 
> 
> Yes!!!
> 
> ...but only in 2.1-dev version.
> Use this in your subsitemap:
> 
> 
>   
>value="some-default-value" />
>   ...
> 
> KP
> 
> > 
> > Thanx.
> > Yury.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> -
> > Please check that your question  has not already been 
> answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. 

> 
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RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[ROSSEL Olivier]

Probably you will appreciate to know that several books will
be available VERY soon about Cocoon.

BTW, several companies offers trainings about Cocoon.
If it sounds too costy to learn it by yourself, you can
be helped by professionnals.

I agree that the best tool is the one you master.
I have a different opinion:
To me, the best tool is the one you master and are paid to use.

My 2 cents :-)

PS: the first time I launched Vim, I could not type anything
and couldn't find any way to quit this nasty program.


> -Message d'origine-
> De: John Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Date: jeudi 27 juin 2002 04:41
> À: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
> 
> 
> I'm back from a short vacation in beautiful Chicago (it 
> really is much 
> nicer than Toronto or Montreal) and have waded back in to 
> Cocoon for a 
> couple of days.
> 
> After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that 
> it will be 
> much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets 
> than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.
> Fifteen hours on the Interstate wasn't as challenging as trying to 
> figure out how one should check a Web Form this month but I 
> didn't have 
> that feeling of travelling backwards half of the time. I was 
> also able 
> to predict and achieve forward progress (for a change).
> 
> Thanks guys, but no thanks. 
> 
> Maybe I'm getting old, but I really don't understand the need for all 
> of the complexity and the lack of documentation in this product.
> 
> On the other hand, I used to feel the same way about the mind-numbing 
> complexity of a certain thirty-year-old mainframe operating system 
> (MVS) produced by IBM back in the sixties and it's patching system 
> (SMP4). So it can't just be my age. 
> 
> Anyway, Cocoon has cost me far morte (a typo that's better than the 
> original word) time than it was worth. The chief problems appear to 
> have been endlessly re-invented terminology for an 
> overwhelming number 
> of 'new concepts' and a complete lack of consistency between 
> different 
> components (i.e. functional code, non-functional examples, 
> unbuildable 
> documentation and a website that doesn't match up with any single 
> released version of the project).
> 
> I have a lot of respect for the ability of the people who have built 
> this project, but I want them to know that their project 
> appears to be 
> out-of-control and could become very difficult to manage. If 
> experienced developers (like myself) can't figure out how to 
> use enough 
> features in the product to make it worth using, then penetration will 
> be limited and all of your efforts will be wasted. There is more to 
> this business than stuffing in features at the expense of 
> documentation 
> and testing. You have a lot of very good ideas, but the execution of 
> the project as a whole seems to be suffering.
> 
> I know that I will often look at my JSP and servlet code and 
> think 'XSP 
> and Cocoon were sooo much better!' until I remember that I 
> wasn't ever 
> able to use enough of Cocoon to make a profit.
> 
> Oh, well, at least all of my test systems have bags of memory now!
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> 

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RE: sent map parameters into another sitemap

[Piroumian Konstantin]

> From: yuryx [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Does is possible sent sitemap parameters into mounted sitenap 
> like this:
> 
>  reload-method="synchron">
> 
> 

Yes!!!

...but only in 2.1-dev version.
Use this in your subsitemap:


  

...

KP

> 
> Thanx.
> Yury.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. 
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hello John,

On Thursday 27 June 2002 04:41, John Austin wrote:
>. . .
> After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that it will be
> much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets
> than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.
>. . .

First thanks for expressing yourself on this mailing list, many people might 
have just quit without saying anything!

As is the case with many open-source projects (or any project during its 
construction phase), I think understanding Cocoon is possible in a few hours, 
but requires some help from the community.

You're right that the documentation is far from perfect at this time, but I 
think the level of support that you might get by asking focused questions on 
the mailing lists is way superior to many commercial support offerings. 

This will usually make up for the lack of consistency or depth of the 
documentation, although your mileage may vary depending on what components 
you're asking about (which might also tell you which components are most 
well-known and/or stable).

There also a few books coming out, notably Matthew Langham and Carsten 
Ziegeler's excellent one [1], which should be available now or shortly. That 
doesn't answer your concern today but should do so soon.

I don't think Cocoon is out-of-control today, it's just being evolved at an 
incredibly quick pace by a great but loosely-coupled team of developers. Not 
being able to contribute code today, I'm watching what's going on in 
amazement and learning a few lessons about why some projects (like Cocoon 
IMHO) work and others don't..

Keeping up with the pace is hard and you're right that it is hard to find out 
what you can reasonably use today and what are still moving targets, among 
the many available components.

Hopefully the current documentation effort will make this better, 
but in the meantime I'm confident that with a little help from the community 
it is very possible to get a lot of productive work done today with Cocoon!

Regards,
-- 
 Bertrand Delacrétaz (codeconsult.ch, jfor.org)

 buzzwords: XML, java, XSLT, cocoon, mentoring/teaching/coding.
 disclaimer: eternity is very long. mostly towards the end. get ready.

[1 ] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/needacake-20





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sent map parameters into another sitemap

[yuryx]

Hi all!

Does is possible sent sitemap parameters into mounted sitenap like this:





Thanx.
Yury.



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