Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
I should have followed the intuition of mine which had occured around 3 months ago or thereabouts. Before the creation of "The Apache Newsletter", I should have succeeded in the creation/maintainance of "Jakarta Newsletter" and "XML Newsletter". That's what I wanted to do, indeed. *sigh* -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:41:53 +0900 (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Tetsuya Kitahata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thank you for the comment!! > > Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the > 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta. > > 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think. > However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare > the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml, > apache-ws, and apache-cocoon. > > e.g. > odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) > even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) > > These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java. > > Sincerely, > > -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > --------- > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST) > (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) > Dirk-Willem van Gulik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: > > > > ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... > > > > Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. > > > > And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' > > scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! > > > > Thanks! > > > > Dw > > > - > Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.terra-intl.com/ > (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese) > http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/ > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ Apache Software Foundation Committer: http://www.apache.org/~tetsuya/ fingerprint: E420 3713 FAB0 C160 4A1E 6FC5 5846 23D6 80AE BDEA - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 11:01:16AM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > > Mads Toftum wrote, On 11/07/2003 18.53: > ... > >I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it > >being forced on people who didn't want it. > > Are there a lot of people here on community@apache.org that not want to > know, or even care, of what is happening in Apache-land? > > Oh well... > Taken out of context - I was replying to the idea of sending it on announce@ I'd much prefer having a www.apache.org/news/ with a list to subscribe to, rss feeds and such, and thus not really seeing the need to get it here also, but thats nothing my procmail can't handle, so do whatever you like. vh Mads Toftum -- `Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Mads Toftum wrote, On 11/07/2003 18.53: ... I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it being forced on people who didn't want it. Are there a lot of people here on community@apache.org that not want to know, or even care, of what is happening in Apache-land? Oh well... -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Tetsuya Kitahata escribió: Santiago Gala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho (http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental format :-) Someone defaced Sam's wiki frontpage. It has been restored by now. "Necho"? "Echo"? There are plenty of names, or no name. From the frontpage: The EchoProject is an initiative to develop a common syntax for syndication, archiving and an publishing API. The original name was Echo, but it was considered inappropriate and changed, provisionally, to not-echo, or necho for short. Mark Pilgrim calls it "the-format-that-should-not-be-named-echo" or something. It is/will be a format similar to RSS, with API to edit or archive news items. Of potential interest for things like the FAN (Future Apache Newsletter) ;-) "Necho" reminds me of the word "Neko", which is used by Andy Clark's piece of works... "CyberNeko Parser" etc. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. "Neko" means *cat* in Japanese ;-) Nice, I didn't know. It could be a good name for the project. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Santiago Gala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho > (http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental > format :-) "Necho"? "Echo"? "Necho" reminds me of the word "Neko", which is used by Andy Clark's piece of works... "CyberNeko Parser" etc. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. "Neko" means *cat* in Japanese ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Readers' Voice (Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JakartaNewsletterDrafts/Issue10 Please feel free to write the comments on the last (jakarta) newsletter ;-) ... (@ Readers' Voice Section) ... even if the Jakarta Newsletter will be sublimated as "the Apache Newsletter", your opinions/voices might be a help for this in either case. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1 Vadim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Noel J. Bergman escribió: Something like: would handle multiple forms, e.g., brief e-mail, full e-mail, web site edition. Cocoon could handle the entire publishing process, even producing a downloadable PDF for those who want to read it that way. --- Noel It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho (http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental format :-) Regards --- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:57:13 -0400 (Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > you can't know who are the new committers without taking > > snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail > > AFAICS, committer uids in /etc/passwd started at a particular value, and > monotonically increment for each new user, so couldn't he use that as an > indicator? Sander, Noel, I knew that it was subset of the "NewCommitters", to be precise, however, I'd rather like to let it as self-declaration system... Why? it is because we can give the chance for the new committer to edit the apachewiki page and give the *awareness* of something... If this self-declaration system work wells, at the same time, the content of the apachewiki will grow more gradually. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500 Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is what I would like to see: > > 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used > in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including > infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the > non-so-project stuff. > > 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org > > 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] > > What do you think? +2 (+1 is the aye for the proposal: another +1 is the expression of my will to volunteer) Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> But with the obvious caveat that an ASF wide newsletter might become quite > big if people write major dissertations, I'd rather see nice concise precis > of recent activity, and links to more detail text where relevant, I'm more > likely to read it all that way. Let's see what happens. :-) And until wireless Internet is globally available, you're balancing against those people who want to read on the train, as they've put it. > > FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web > > trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing > > model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually > > appealing and navigable web edition. > I suspect this is true too. Something like: would handle multiple forms, e.g., brief e-mail, full e-mail, web site edition. Cocoon could handle the entire publishing process, even producing a downloadable PDF for those who want to read it that way. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Noel, > Personally, I agree with those who feel that the text should be available > via e-mail, and considering the roughly 1 message per month traffic on > announce@, it is hard to argue that it is too much volume. Agreed, I like the jakarta newsletter a lot. But with the obvious caveat that an ASF wide newsletter might become quite big if people write major dissertations, I'd rather see nice concise precis of recent activity, and links to more detail text where relevant, I'm more likely to read it all that way. d. > > FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web > trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing > model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually > appealing > and navigable web edition. Since I won't be working on that, it is only a > prediction based upon newsletters I'm already receiving from elsewhere. I suspect this is true too. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
> >> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used > >> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including > >> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the > >> non-so-project stuff. > >> > >> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org > >> > >> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] > >> > >> What do you think? +1 Since Rob Oxspring started the Jakarta newsletter it has been a fantastic way for people to keep abreast of other projects progress. Expanding the concept can only be a Good Thing. On a personal note I'm in favour of reading short-ish summary contributions that link to more in-depth material elsewhere, too many words and I won't have time to digest all of it. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Jeff Trawick escribió: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1 +1 (though I worry about what the editor(s) will have to suffer through) The approach by Tetsuya is great: use the wiki as a draft, and post into the projects lists at given times prompting the people and notifying the deadlines. If the projects don't "fill in the blanks", it is their problem. I would like also, but it requires dedicated people, the kind of entries in the newsletter that I have seen in the linux kernel, commenting on the interesting threads, etc. And, of course, Steven's weather report. ;-) Regards -- Santiago Gala High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com) http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 05:19:26PM +0100, Thom May wrote: > I'm kinda +0.5; I don't think [EMAIL PROTECTED] should be used (Seperation of > concerns - news summary != announcement), but aside from > that I think it's a good idea. Yeah, I'd really prefer that it was a seperate list - announce seems wrong for this type of content. Over the years www.apacheweek.com has done a really good job on the httpd side - even if it wasn't entirely official. I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it being forced on people who didn't want it. vh Mads Toftum -- `Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Danny, As I said to you in the broader context, I wasn't saying that community@ is the right place; just that I think it is hard to call it off-topic if it covers the whole community. Actually, announce@ was one of the places I'd suggested in an earlier message. announce@ has almost no traffic, no noise, a much larger subscriber list (and not just ASF committers), and has the charter: "The Apache Announcements list contains news and announcements about the foundation and its projects." How more appropriate can it get? > If you're worried that subscribers to community@ won't be subscribed to > announce@ (and that the newsletter will miss some of its target audience) In fact it will reach more of the target audience, not less. As you say, the solution is to encourage people to subscribe to the right list. Also, the newsletter would be available on the web. > > and provide a separate subscriber list for > > people who want the full newsletter. > Have a seperate read-only newsletter list you mean? Only if people felt that announce@ wasn't appropriate for the full text. Personally, I agree with those who feel that the text should be available via e-mail, and considering the roughly 1 message per month traffic on announce@, it is hard to argue that it is too much volume. FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually appealing and navigable web edition. Since I won't be working on that, it is only a prediction based upon newsletters I'm already receiving from elsewhere. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
> This is what I would like to see: +1 --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
* Stefano Mazzocchi ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > This is what I would like to see: > > 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used > in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including > infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the > non-so-project stuff. > > 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org > > 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] > > What do you think? I'm kinda +0.5; I don't think [EMAIL PROTECTED] should be used (Seperation of concerns - news summary != announcement), but aside from that I think it's a good idea. -Thom, never having been against the idea of a newsletter, just where it was being aimed ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On 11/07/2003, at 05:33, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1. Amen, brother. Cheers, Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? +1 (though I worry about what the editor(s) will have to suffer through) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 11:33, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: > on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote: > > This is what I would like to see: > > 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used > in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including > infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the > non-so-project stuff. > > 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org > > 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] > > What do you think? +1 -- Tom Copeland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> InfoEther - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote: > Why the obsession with email? push vs. pull example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you will read it is much lower. another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires* effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower. This is what I would like to see: 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the non-so-project stuff. 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date] What do you think? -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:07:12 +0100 (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Thom May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why the obsession with email? > We have a (pretty good ;-) ) webserver. Why don't we have a web page? > www.apache.org/news/monthly or something. > http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/ by way of prior art. > Update that page, and send the letter to a *dedicated* list if so desired. > Judoing a non-related list into handling this is not the right approach. 1. "Jakarta Newsletter" has the web page version. e.g. -- Issue 9 -- http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html (97827byte) E-mail version's size was 33226byte. If the "Jakarta Newsletter" will be sublimated to "the Apache Newsletter", http://www.apache.org/newsletter/ or somewhere might be preferable. 2. I do not think that the httpd protocol is prior to SMTP/POP and vice versa. There are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages. I think giving opportunities for people to read the newsletter via web page as well as e-mail is preferable. 3. There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe, however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination* for something. I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth). 4. Personally, I do not like the old-fashioned controversy like 'Linux is prior to XX-OS', 'Java is prior to XX-Language', etc. Stiring up the *awareness* is important, and *sublimation* is great. *sublimation* -- "A Patchy" spirits! 5. I am subscribing to 50 or more mailing lists and I receive over 500 mails per day. However, I do not feel that *XX mail is annoying* or any because I have know-hows on dealing with e-mails properly. (Plus: I've experienced the moderation of over 30 mailing list at the same time) Needless e-mails?? -- just setting up mail client to push these mails to trash box automatically, using regular expressions. I think "E-mail" has two aspects/functions: i) information: FLOW ii) information: STOCK Too much exaggeration of the *bandwidth* will end up with the result of the lack of the important ii), I think. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Noel, > However, in the interests of compromise between those who want just a > summary with link and those who want the full content, perhaps it would be > best to post a summary e-mail, Don't you think annouce@ is the place for that? If you're worried that subscribers to community@ won't be subscribed to announce@ (and that the newsletter will miss some of its target audience) then I still feel quite strongly that the solution isn't to cross post, but to encourage people to subscribe to the correct list. If cross posting becomes an acceptable solution to the problem of people not being subscribed to lists which might interest them then IMO it will create a bigger problem than it solves. > and provide a separate subscriber list for > people who want the full newsletter. Have a seperate read-only newsletter list you mean? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> > I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway. > > Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested. > the jakarta newsletter are verging on OT for community@ as well. Perhaps, but it seems to me that this discussion has been about taking the Jakarta Newsletter and turning it into the ASF Newsletter, with information about all aspects of the ASF, and especially all of the projects. I'm not saying that community@ is the right place, but in many respects it is. After all, not ever community discussion is of interest to every subscriber, but a newsletter whose primary purpose is to inform about the ASF Community's status and projects seems quite on-topic to me. However, in the interests of compromise between those who want just a summary with link and those who want the full content, perhaps it would be best to post a summary e-mail, and provide a separate subscriber list for people who want the full newsletter. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
David Reid wrote: > I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway. > Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested. I agree, cross posting sucks in general and annoucements and the jakarta newsletter are verging on OT for community@ as well. I'd think that if there is a big percieved need to cross post annoucements to community then we should try to find out why annouce@ isn't working and fix that instead. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
* David N. Welton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > Ceki G?lc? <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the > > possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers. > > However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a > > technical one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to > > imagine anyone being upset because of an extra message per month. > > I don't care much for Java either, but on the other hand, I would like > to find a compromise that > > 1) Lets me keep abreast of major developments/interesting things in >other apache projects. > > 2) Doesn't require me to subscribe to another 343432 mailing lists. > > Some sort of compromise of this type would hopefully do a bit towards > "cross-pollination" efforts, which I presume are something we value? > > Maybe what is needed is an editor for an 'ASF news' mail which lists > the month's highlights. Not volunteering, sorry! > Why the obsession with email? We have a (pretty good ;-) ) webserver. Why don't we have a web page? www.apache.org/news/monthly or something. http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/ by way of prior art. Update that page, and send the letter to a *dedicated* list if so desired. Judoing a non-related list into handling this is not the right approach. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway. Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested. david - Original Message - From: "Thom May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003 > * Ceki G?lc? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > > At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: > > >on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > > > > > >> ... > > >> > > >>>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is > > >>>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in > > >> > > >> ... > > >> > > >>>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would > > >> > > >> > > >> Please please ! > > >> > > >> I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. > > >> Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; > > >a > > >> bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, > > >> somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF > > >> generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. > > >> > > >> XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our > > >world > > >> - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits > > >of > > >> php or mod_perl, etc, etc > > >> > > >> So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache > > >wide > > >> announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd > > >> love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I > > >certainly > > >> do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent > > >one, > > >> or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. > > >> > > >> Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in > > >> the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. > > > > > >I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. > > > > > >I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru > > >announce@apache.org once a month. > > > > > >At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination > > >about all the different projects in one confy session. > > > > > >This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to > > >shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase > > >crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) > > > > > > Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing > > the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable > > and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful > > information. > > > For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As > such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter *if > I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an email > that I don't want. > -Thom > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Ceki Gülcü <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > If I understand correctly, you are unwilling to receive one > Jakarta-related email per month, on say, announce@apache.org mailing > list. Is that the mailing list being considered? With more than 15 projects, each one of which would presumably have the right to post a monthly update, that amounts to an email every couple of days. > Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the > possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers. > However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a > technical one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to > imagine anyone being upset because of an extra message per month. I don't care much for Java either, but on the other hand, I would like to find a compromise that 1) Lets me keep abreast of major developments/interesting things in other apache projects. 2) Doesn't require me to subscribe to another 343432 mailing lists. Some sort of compromise of this type would hopefully do a bit towards "cross-pollination" efforts, which I presume are something we value? Maybe what is needed is an editor for an 'ASF news' mail which lists the month's highlights. Not volunteering, sorry! -- David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
At 10:55 AM 7/11/2003 +0100, you wrote: For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter *if I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an email that I don't want. -Thom If I understand correctly, you are unwilling to receive one Jakarta-related email per month, on say, announce@apache.org mailing list. Is that the mailing list being considered? Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers. However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a technical one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to imagine anyone being upset because of an extra message per month. -- Ceki For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual" ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
* Ceki G?lc? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: > >on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > > > >> ... > >> > >>>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is > >>>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in > >> > >> ... > >> > >>>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would > >> > >> > >> Please please ! > >> > >> I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. > >> Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; > >a > >> bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, > >> somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF > >> generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. > >> > >> XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our > >world > >> - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits > >of > >> php or mod_perl, etc, etc > >> > >> So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache > >wide > >> announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd > >> love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I > >certainly > >> do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent > >one, > >> or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. > >> > >> Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in > >> the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. > > > >I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. > > > >I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru > >announce@apache.org once a month. > > > >At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination > >about all the different projects in one confy session. > > > >This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to > >shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase > >crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) > > > Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing > the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable > and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful > information. > For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter *if I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an email that I don't want. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > ... > >>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is >>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in > > ... > >>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would > > > Please please ! > > I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. > Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a > bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, > somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF > generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. > > XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world > - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of > php or mod_perl, etc, etc > > So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide > announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd > love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly > do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, > or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. > > Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in > the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination about all the different projects in one confy session. This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful information. -- Stefano. -- Ceki For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual" ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body, posting a > > brief notice with link is hard to argue against. > > This is true but I'd like to be clearer on what people are objecting to > first, I understand complaints about crossposting the body but are there > serious objections to posting the full body to one central list? I'd like to have the complete body going to at least one mailing list. I often collect my e-mails and read them on the train. A brief notice with link is hard to follow then. Best regards Rainer Klute -- RAINER KLUTE IT-CONSULTING GMBH Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute [EMAIL PROTECTED] Körner Grund 24 Telefon: +49 172 2324824 D-44143 Dortmund Telefax: +49 231 5349423 +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ Jetzt ein- oder umsteigen und USB-Speicheruhr als Prämie sichern! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
- Original Message - From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Stefano Mazzocchi applauded: > > on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > > I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru > > announce@apache.org once a month. > > +1 except for the frequency, which I shan't comment upon. Kitahata-san > seems to have taken upon his shoulders the chief responsibility for pulling > together the newsletter. Those who do the work ought to have a say in the > frequency. Certainly those doing the sending should have the final say but I do think that monthly is the right period to aim for - much longer and the newsletter gets too big and a little stale. The workload may be higher but that should be a reason to spread the load not reduce the frequency - a rolling team of people would keep the impact on personal time to a minimum. > > If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body, posting a > brief notice with link is hard to argue against. This is true but I'd like to be clearer on what people are objecting to first, I understand complaints about crossposting the body but are there serious objections to posting the full body to one central list? If so then fair enough but I'm curious. Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> you can't know who are the new committers without taking > snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail AFAICS, committer uids in /etc/passwd started at a particular value, and monotonically increment for each new user, so couldn't he use that as an indicator? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 5:48 AM [...] > In creation of "Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9", I tried several things > by way of experiment. > > 1. Announced to all the -dev list (not cross-post) to solicit > contributors > 2. Announced here in community@ to solicit contributors > 2. Added the list of the "New Committers" -- welcomed to apache.org This is only a subset of the new committers ASF wide. Reason for this is that you can't know who are the new committers without taking snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail and comparing them. Or, to be on both root@ and [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:24:23 +0100 "Rob Oxspring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One point I would like to make though, and not wanting to detract > from this fantastic issue (thanks Tetsuya!), is that keeping the up > the momentum has proved difficult at times over the last year and > that not every project has something useful to say every month. > Building the newsletter via the wiki makes it easier to contribute > but I suspect that the normal size of a monthly apache newsletter > still wouldn't be much bigger than this one. I guess what I'm saying > is that I think we should let the newsletter grow too big before we > start carving it up into even/odd months or similar schemes. In creation of "Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9", I tried several things by way of experiment. 1. Announced to all the -dev list (not cross-post) to solicit contributors 2. Announced here in community@ to solicit contributors 2. Added the list of the "New Committers" -- welcomed to apache.org 3. Added the list of the "products available as of the end of the month" 4. Added various news from jakarta-related 5. Posted the news (articles) here in community@ In this process, I came across many things which should be piled up for the successors as *knowledge*. Also, I think this know-how might be applicable to the "XML-Newsletter"/"Apache-Newsletter"/... Again, I really thank to all the contributors and the predecessors (Rob and Robert). Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. Maybe, in the next newsletter, I can add the *Readers' Opinions* or *Readers' View* subsection (^_^) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
- Original Message - From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > > So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide > > announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd > > love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly > > do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, > > or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. +1. I wanted to expand the newsletter to non-jakarta stuff from the beginning but never found the time to do it properly. > > > > Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in > > the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. > > I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. > > I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru > announce@apache.org once a month. Previously the announcement lists have always been the target lists except when getting comments on drafts - I would have thought the annoncements list(s) would be sufficient now that the wiki "live draft" is in place - so the controversial community posting could probably be dropped for the future. One point I would like to make though, and not wanting to detract from this fantastic issue (thanks Tetsuya!), is that keeping the up the momentum has proved difficult at times over the last year and that not every project has something useful to say every month. Building the newsletter via the wiki makes it easier to contribute but I suspect that the normal size of a monthly apache newsletter still wouldn't be much bigger than this one. I guess what I'm saying is that I think we should let the newsletter grow too big before we start carving it up into even/odd months or similar schemes. I do still like the idea of the full contents via email though as it makes it easier to catch up offline. I'm pretty sure that any issues >100k could be edited down for the email version with links to the full copy online but I'm still not expecting to see too many that size anyway. Maybe I'm underestimating and need to explore *.apache.org again. > > At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination > about all the different projects in one confy session. > > This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to > shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase > crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) Its good to see these two points being made - switch "the ASF" to "Jakarta" and they were the exact reasons that I wanted to start up a newsletter! (The jakarta limitted scope relating purely to my apache exposure at the time) Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Stefano Mazzocchi applauded: > on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > > So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide > > announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd > > love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly > > do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, > > or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. > > > > Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in > > the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. > I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. Amen! > I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru > announce@apache.org once a month. +1 except for the frequency, which I shan't comment upon. Kitahata-san seems to have taken upon his shoulders the chief responsibility for pulling together the newsletter. Those who do the work ought to have a say in the frequency. If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body, posting a brief notice with link is hard to argue against. > At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination > about all the different projects in one confy session. I had a lot of people in all of my "A Visitors Guide to Jakarta" sessions last year at Colorado Software Summit (www.softwaresummit.com). > I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination > and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) Anything that increases collaboration, and decreases NIH is good. :-) --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > ... > >>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is >>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in > > ... > >>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would > > > Please please ! > > I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. > Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a > bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, > somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF > generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. > > XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world > - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of > php or mod_perl, etc, etc > > So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide > announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd > love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly > do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, > or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. > > Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in > the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view. I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru announce@apache.org once a month. At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination about all the different projects in one confy session. This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!) -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
... > one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is > that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in ... > if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would Please please ! I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries. Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left, somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc. XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of php or mod_perl, etc, etc So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one, or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep. Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves. Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 03:00 PM, Thom May wrote: * Nicola Ken Barozzi ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : Thom May wrote, On 10/07/2003 15.24: Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. straw. camel's back. there's no reason for the newsletter to be coming here that i can see. one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in jakarta or not) who are feel interested in contributing to the newsletter. posting to community (rather than - say - to the general and announcement lists of every project that contributed) therefore seemed pretty reasonable when it was proposed. now that there's been such a mixed reaction, it'll probably be an experiment that won't be repeated. if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would those people who are upset feel as hostile about an announcement about this together with a link being posted to community? - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> We have different lists for different purposes. This content does not belong > on this list. Which content? The newsletter, or the discussion of turning it into an ASF-wide newsletter? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Right. The whole idea about this list was it would *NOT* become a dumping ground. While discussion were ongoinbg about it there was a vocal group who kept swearing that it would never become such a place - now you go and prove them correct! Sad how the nay sayers are normally proven correct isn't it??? We have different lists for different purposes. This content does not belong on this list. Neither would an XML newsletter, an APR one or an HTTPD one. david - Original Message - From: "André Malo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003 > * Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > > > Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all > > announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. > > > > MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. > > And now multiply one mail with the number of apache projects. Heh, *I* get > about 200-300 mails per day. Just one more to decide if it's spam or not > *does* matter. Not just me. > > It's really not meant as offense and your work is appreciated, but I agree > with Thom. If one wants to read the jakarta newsletter one can subscribe it. > If not, one has to unsubscribe community@, which would finally result in a > merge of community@ to [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] > > nd > > [1] For those who didn't get it: that was a joke. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
* Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all > announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. > > MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. And now multiply one mail with the number of apache projects. Heh, *I* get about 200-300 mails per day. Just one more to decide if it's spam or not *does* matter. Not just me. It's really not meant as offense and your work is appreciated, but I agree with Thom. If one wants to read the jakarta newsletter one can subscribe it. If not, one has to unsubscribe community@, which would finally result in a merge of community@ to [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] nd [1] For those who didn't get it: that was a joke. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
* Nicola Ken Barozzi ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > > Thom May wrote, On 10/07/2003 15.24: > > > Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all > announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. > > MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. > straw. camel's back. there's no reason for the newsletter to be coming here that i can see. (note, this is not anything to do with the content, i'd say exactly the same about an httpd or apr newsletter.) I think most apache folk get enough email that stuff that can be seperated should be. -T - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Thom May wrote, On 10/07/2003 15.24: * Tetsuya Kitahata ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:27:05 -0400 (Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And I think not only to this ML, but also to at least [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be better. I don't think it should go to this Mailing List at all. Post an announcement about news@(jakarta.)?apache.org for people to sub to, ask apmail to create that list, post newsletters there. Don't clutter up this list with stuff that could easily be opt-in for people who want it, rather than forcing people who don't to either opt-out of this list or have to procmail it to /dev/null Just MHO Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all announcements go also to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go figure. MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
* Tetsuya Kitahata ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:27:05 -0400 > (Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) > "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And I think not only to this ML, but also to at least [EMAIL PROTECTED] > and [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be better. I don't think it should go to this Mailing List at all. Post an announcement about news@(jakarta.)?apache.org for people to sub to, ask apmail to create that list, post newsletters there. Don't clutter up this list with stuff that could easily be opt-in for people who want it, rather than forcing people who don't to either opt-out of this list or have to procmail it to /dev/null Just MHO -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:27:05 -0400 (Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It has been already said, but the last newsletter was *awesome*! :-) > > Agreed! :-) > > > Why not simply make it the Apache Newsletter, add the projects that are > > not there yet, and publish it here on [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > +1 > > It would help to preserve and build community the community aspect(s) of the > ASF. Plus, there is a lot of synergy between various projects across TLP > boundaries. The Apache Newsletter would also have marketing value for the > brand. And it could be a suppliment to the regular PMC reports that the > board needs. Noel, Ken, Uhhhm If we list up all the projects in ASF and make Apache-newsletter, I am (very) afraid it will be too big for ezmlm :-) Rather, it will be better: e.g. odd-numbered month: Apache-News-Letter -- Java, ServerApp even-numbered month: Apache-News-Letter -- XML,Interpreter Lang .. each projects can decide in which they should/wanna be listed up. (Maybe a project whose name begins with "P" are willing / greedy enough to be listed up in *BOTH* :-) And I think not only to this ML, but also to at least [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be better. If we do not adhere to Apache-Newsletter, it will be simple: e.g. odd-numbered month: Jakarta-NewsLetter (bi-monthly newsletter) : community@ , [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] : TARGET : Jakarta, HTTPD Webserver, Jakarta-Related-Projects even-numbered month: XML-NewsLetter (bi-monthly newsletter) : community@ , [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] : TARGET : XML, WS, Cocoon Any thoughts? Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) P.S. Where should we pile up the apache-newsletter in the apache website? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> It has been already said, but the last newsletter was *awesome*! :-) Agreed! :-) > Why not simply make it the Apache Newsletter, add the projects that are > not there yet, and publish it here on [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 It would help to preserve and build community the community aspect(s) of the ASF. Plus, there is a lot of synergy between various projects across TLP boundaries. The Apache Newsletter would also have marketing value for the brand. And it could be a suppliment to the regular PMC reports that the board needs. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
robert burrell donkin wrote, On 09/07/2003 19.44: hi Tetsuya thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success. It has been already said, but the last newsletter was *awesome*! :-) I saw many non-jakarta projects on it, and that was very nice indeed. It makes different projects understand what's happening to each other. Why not simply make it the Apache Newsletter, add the projects that are not there yet, and publish it here on [EMAIL PROTECTED] As always, I'll help with the projects I'm on :-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Apache-XML-Newsletter (Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
Yes! I think it'd be a great success creating newsletters for Apache-XML (and Apache-WS/Apache-Cocoon) and I'd love to volunteer. The only one thing: I have karma for the jakarta-site2, but do not for xml-site. I can prepare the [patch] for the apache-xml-news and post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] but I am afraid it will be annoying for the subscribers. Probably, I need more *inquiry* and collaborators. (There's no problem creating new "wikipage"s for xml-newsletter and I can make the most use of the know-hows on the jakarta-newsletter) Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:44:20 +0100 (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) robert burrell donkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hi Tetsuya > > thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for > newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as > well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success. > > - robert > > On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:41 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: > > > > > Thank you for the comment!! > > > > Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the > > 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta. > > > > 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think. > > However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare > > the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml, > > apache-ws, and apache-cocoon. > > > > e.g. > > odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) > > even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) > > > > These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > > - > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST) > > (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) > > Dirk-Willem van Gulik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: > >> > >> ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... > >> > >> Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. > >> > >> And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' > >> scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
hi Tetsuya thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success. - robert On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:41 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Thank you for the comment!! Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta. 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think. However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml, apache-ws, and apache-cocoon. e.g. odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ----- On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST) (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Dirk-Willem van Gulik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! Thanks! Dw - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese) http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Thank you for the comment!! Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta. 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think. However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml, apache-ws, and apache-cocoon. e.g. odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter) These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java. Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST) (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003) Dirk-Willem van Gulik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: > > ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... > > Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. > > And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' > scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! > > Thanks! > > Dw - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese) http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ... Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work. And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml' scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own! Thanks! Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 == Date: May-June 2003 Url: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html It's been another good year at the JavaWorld Tools Awards [1] for Apache. Xerces2 Java Parser 2.4 from the Apache XML Project won the Best Java-XML Tool award and Apache Ant 1.5 developed by the Apache Ant Project won the Most Useful Java Community-Developed Technology. Good work! W3C has issued SOAP 1.2 as a recommendation. This means that the SOAP 1.2 specification is now (effectively) a web standard. Apache software related to SOAP can be found in the Web Services and XML projects. The press release is now available online [3]. This newsletter is the second wiki-built newsletter. See the http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JakartaNewsletterDrafts for more details. Also, I sent the announcements to all the developers' list in jakarta. It was a bit annoying I suppose, however, this newsletter contains a lot of news from various projects, including Jakarta Related Projects. Note: Apache Ant, Avalon, James, Maven, Incubator, DB (OJB/TORQUE) are not subprojects under Apache Jakarta any longer, however, we really appreciate to hear the news from the Jakarta Related Projects. I strongly hope/believe this "newsletter" would be able to become one of the *liaison* for the various projects in ASF. I want to thank those who contributed and hope that you enjoy the read. If you would like to comment further on any of the highlighted discussions then please do so on the appropriate list [4], if you want to comment on the newsletter itself then please point your comments to general@jakarta.apache.org with [NEWSLETTER] prefixed subject. [1] - http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-06-2003/jw-0609-eca.html [2] - http://xml.apache.org/xerces2-j/index.html [3] - http://www.w3.org/2003/06/soap12-pressrelease [4] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html Editor: Tetsuya Kitahata Special Thanks: Robert Burrel Donkin Contents Jakarta General Jakarta Commons General Jakarta Commons EL Jakarta Commons FileUpload Jakarta Commons DBCP Jakarta Commons HttpClient Jakarta Commons Lang Jakarta Commons Math Jakarta Jetspeed Jakarta JMeter Jakarta Log4j Jakarta Lucene Jakarta Poi Jakarta Struts Jakarta Tapestry Jakarta Tomcat Jakarta Turbine Jakarta Velocity Apache Ant Project Apache Avalon Fortress Apache DB OJB Apache Httpd WebServer Project Apache James Project New Committers Products avaliable as of the end of June, 2003 -- Jakarta General === " Ideas, suggestions, and comments on the overall Jakarta project " Editor: Tetsuya Kitahata Discussions on general mailing list have been fairly light-weight these 2 months. The Main page of the Jakarta Site has been updated in order to arrange the "Jakarta-Related" projects properly. Now, Jakarta website has renewed to become one of the most powerful "Java-Portal" sites. The JavaOne Conference was held in June, and there seemed many atendees from jakarta participants. As Sun Microsystems set up the http://java.net/ site, there was alot of talk surrounding this issue. Jakarta Tapestry, which had been longed to become a Top Project in Jakarta, finally joined in the Jakarta Umbrella in May. The first proposal was made at General Mailing List in October last year by Howard M. Lewis Ship, so it took about a half year. We look forward to the Tapestry Team playing a more active part in Jakarta. -- Jakarta Commons General === " creating and maintaining reusable Java components " Editor: Robert Burrel Donkin, Tetsuya Kitahata An OnJava Article [1] covering the components in Jakarta Commons [2] has been published. If you've ever wondered about what's all these components do, this is a good place to start. Due to the diverse nature of the commons group, this section has been split up to make it easier to pick out the topics of interest. These months' stories come from the following: [1] - http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/06/25/commons.html [2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/ Jakarta Commons EL == Editor: Robert Burrel Donkin The Commons Team is pleased to announce the 1.0 release of commons-EL. EL is the JSP 2.0 Expression Language Interpreter from Apache For more information see the EL component home page [1]. [1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/el.html Jakarta Commons FileUpload == Editor: Robert Burrel Donkin The Commons Team is pleased to announce the long-awaited release of commons-fileupload 1.0.
