Re: I got charged ;)
Myk Melez wrote: Gau, Frank wrote: Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: ... My Order# 2309 My order number is #1987. My YES_I_DO request was sent by FIC on Friday, July 13 at 6:43pm PDT (Saturday, July 14 1:43am UTC). I received it at approximately 7:03pm (2:03am) that evening, and I sent a response at 7:05pm (2:05am). Update: I just received a payment received message. It says they'll send out my order ASAP and will notify me again when it's been sent. Sounds like it'll go out too late for me to receive it before heading off for OSCON tomorrow afternoon, unfortunately. -myk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Moin, Am Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:20:44 +0100 schrieb Jim McDonald: Yep that's pretty much what I'm talking about here. But to do this we will need the low-level code to send us the methods/signals so that we can take the appropriate actions, which is the bit that I'm worried is not being considered and so this type of functionality will just not be possible without being a 'core' developer. Don't worry too much about that right now. I don't know what the current plan for this problem is but, given that OpenMoko already uses dbus, I'm quite sure that it will include dbus. Going from I have an application that, when a call comes in, pops up a dialog and asks the user to accept or reject the call to I have an application that, when a call comes in, broadcasts a dbus message 'There's a call from ..., anyone want to handle that?' and waits for a reply ... 'Anyone? Anyone? Ok, openmoko-dialer, your turn'. is easy. Adding dbus support is *not* the hard part, that's getting calls working at all (and of course all the nifty things you'd want to plug in, but those are outside of the scope of the base infrastructure). For an example how something like that could look like look at the new bluez dbus infrastructure, for example regarding pin-entry: It can be a simple C program that always returns the same pin, but it could also be python script that switches on the coffee machine, cleans the cat litter box, makes breakfast, and then uses the lottery numbers from the newspaper as a pin. And yes, for OpenMoko that explicitly includes sending an SMS or anything else that you might want to do. Just code it, in the programming language of your choice. (Note again that I don't know what the current plans are, but even in the unlikely case that nobody from the core team yet thought about using dbus for call handling it's probably easy enough that *someone* will do it.) -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/24/07, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 24 July 2007 02:08:32 Daniel Robinson wrote: I already use my browser to read my email. I use Gmail to handle the mail from my domain. I can read it at home, at the coffee house or at my day job. great for you but AFAIK almost all ISP offer reading mail from their web page so GMAIL, hotmail, yahoo etc are all obsolete. I also use gmail to collect the mail from various pop3 servers, so I can read them at home, in the other flat, at work or at work, gmail has a very good spam filter and also the labelling is really cool. But that's not tht point. The argument that you have to start your browser seems thin to me. What is a mail reader if not an application as complex as a browser? well most mail readers are integrated in your desktop and impose far less overhead when checking for email. Also you can do nice filtering and other scanning for stuff. Also YOU control your email box and not the application that your 'web'-mail provider has made available to you. The point is: most people just start their mail client, read their mail and close it. So it#s like starting the browser, reading the forum and closing it. A forum allows the _writer_ to sort the posting. I have yet to find an email filtering program that does works in a more than rudimentary fashion. A forum can be searched for keywords in much the same way that an email list can be searched. I do not get that ... what do you mean by the 'writer' and sorting ? my mail application (Kontact of KDE) allows searching for ANY data in ANY part of the mail (body subject etc) Ok, in a forum i can post in the category Developemnt subcategory Applications subcategory Graphics. Or Community- Marketing-Advertisment. And if you don't want to read a category, you simply skip it. And every half decent forum has a built-int search, per title, author, timerange, content, categroy, etc. Posts stay on a forum. Much of the email on this list goes into the bit bucket for me. Advertising? Marketing? We don't have a working phone yet. Well most mailing lists collect the email too. All mailing lists I have subscribed to have a page on which you can scan through the archive. That's true, but scanning through a mailing list can be really annoying if you're not familiar with the system. and moste people aren't. So I like the mailing list system, but I read my mail 3 times a day. If some normal user, maybe 56k connection, who connects 2 times a week, has to stay online a hour just to download the las 187 mails from the list, this isn't really the best solution. For development work, the list is perfect. But for support/community not. IMO the comminity list should be changed into a forum, with a good category structure, ant the development lists should stay here.Then every decent forum allows to recive e-mails on new threads, and also posting per mail shouldnt be difficult to achieve with a bit of a hacjing around with phpbb (or wathever we would like to use). The point is that most aren't really intrested in reading everything that's posted, but if you post on a mailing list, you have to download all the mail to know if someone answerd your question. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch, screen size, and case shape.
On 7/24/07, Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes I agree with all your points. I suspect the Apple patents are on the interaction techniques, and possibly on some specific hardware. Obviously multi-touch existed a few years ago (FingerWorks was around, and I think the FTIR method was invented even earlier). We will see how the lawsuits turn out, which patents Apple can defend and which they cannot. (Lawsuits would seem to be inevitable given the flurry of activity which the iPhone has provoked.) Multitouch screens are around so much time that apple can have patents just on their specific implementation. However some of the interactions which only involve one finger on the iPhone, should still be possible with a conventional touchscreen (for example, flicking to scroll a page). That's correct. A physically larger screen would be nice to read, and I personally would put up with the larger overall size (especially if it makes up for it by being thinner); but people have their stereotypes about how big a phone is too big, and something larger than the iPhone will not sell as well. A good idea would be to use the so-much-talked-about-but-never-used e-paper: simply a small e-paper attached to the back of the phone, which can be rolled out to have a bigger screen. Some sort of medieval-pergament-sort of look. Wold be great IMO. The normal phone for normal applications, the e-paper for browsing, reading, whathing movies, etc. (If people could just get away from holding the whole thing up to their ears like a brick, it would help. Maybe use a bluetooth headset? but I don't use one myself either.) Headsets aren't always well-seen by people, so I would force them to use them. -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
It would be enough (easy saying) if someone would make some camera that fits into the whole in the body of the NEO.. the half-circle-one. With bluethooth interaction. Would be great.. just find someone who produces it? Maybe the FIC could start some sort of addon-series, small gadgets that fit in the whole. Could even e a bluetooth-usb-controller, with built-in batteries so that teh Neo could work as host. Or, I mean, everybody could satart making the addon packs. why not? -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE:Multitouch
Refering to Multitouch, any one have take a look at MPX: The Multi-Pointer X Server (http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/) seems to bee what we are talking about.. and open-source. Any brave dev try to compile it on the little machine? Regards Sé un Mejor Amante del Cine ¿Quieres saber cómo? ¡Deja que otras personas te ayuden! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/reto/entretenimiento.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Order related inquiries
Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. Hope this helps, OpenMoko Orders Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multitouch
On 7/24/07, David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Refering to Multitouch, any one have take a look at MPX: The Multi-Pointer X Server (http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/) seems to bee what we are talking about.. and open-source. Any brave dev try to compile it on the little machine? Lol. What will the second input device be then ? :) Plus, moko uses an embedded version (kdrive), not the regular x. But if we can run it on the moko, then we can: * add an/several usb/i2c 2nd pointer/device and do strange things with it * be ready for the day openmoko will ship multitouch * try to emulate multitouch and testbed using mpx, as discussed previously, see: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Clever_hacks and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Extending_the_touchscreen_capabilities_and_input_methods Cheers FLo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
Thanks for the update. I'll keep playing in software for a little while longer ;) -Pete p.s. sorry about pm. brain not working... On 24/07/07, William Lai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. Hope this helps, OpenMoko Orders Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 09:10, William Lai wrote: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. When you say 'promptly' what do you mean? Can you give us a timescale or the actual shipping? Thanks for keeping us updated. Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re Multitouch
:) It looks like I have read more before open my mouth. Thank Flo to discover me this interesting part of the wiki. Regarding the open question about Will the neo/openmoko graphics system be powerful enough for such uses? in the end of the wiki, there any conclusion yet? An regardin is multi touch really that awesome? I think yes of course, but maybe not in a so little screen and surelly it is not worth the trouble of re-coding a lot of stuff to make it work. Sé un Mejor Amante del Cine ¿Quieres saber cómo? ¡Deja que otras personas te ayuden! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/reto/entretenimiento.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: OK, the forum is coming..]
Sebastian Krause ha scritto: Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to create an nntp gateway. I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support thread! all messages are ordered just by date. You're using Thunderbird, and it supports threading for mail as much as for nntp. Just click the small thread icon left over the message overview. Ups, (shame) -_- i supposed it was ordered by thread by default.. Valerio ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Hear Me FIC
Hi, With the increase in mailing list traffic, and hopefully with the opening of the forums (for customer support), the amount of traffic will likely increase. FIC and the core OpenMoko team are invariably going to get busy (not that they aren't now). So, I thought it will be best for the community to channelise our thoughts and put it to FIC so that it is easy for them to keep track of. Hence, the following wiki page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hear_Me_FIC Its been linked to the main page under Administrative/Organizational: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page#Administrative_.2F_Organizational So, they don't have to worry about going through all the noise we make in the mailing lists, forums, and IRC. Appreciate your thoughts, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
I hate to sound angry and impatient but what I'd like to know is why you aren't processing orders based on RT numbers. I kind of busted my ass to make sure I had one of the first orders in and I got order number 1843. We are processing orders based on RT numbers. Now, even though it should be first come first serve, I'm being told I need to wait until next week. Again, sorry if I come off as being rude and impatient but it's just the way I see it. No need to apologize, it makes perfect sense. Let me check your ticket and get back to you. -Will On Jul 24, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Richard Reichenbacher wrote: I hate to sound angry and impatient but what I'd like to know is why you aren't processing orders based on RT numbers. I kind of busted my ass to make sure I had one of the first orders in and I got order number 1843. Now, even though it should be first come first serve, I'm being told I need to wait until next week. Again, sorry if I come off as being rude and impatient but it's just the way I see it. Richard Reichenbacher -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Lai Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:10 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Order related inquiries Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. Hope this helps, OpenMoko Orders Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re Multitouch
David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : An regardin is multi touch really that awesome? I think yes of course, but maybe not in a so little screen and surelly it is not worth the trouble of re-coding a lot of stuff to make it work. It has its uses, the important thing is to design the interface of this phone to be useable with thumbs. There's interface elements which are too small at present. I also dislike the Start menu too (too much like Windows Mobile). Multitouch is fiddly on the move, you're reliant on being able to hold the device and use two thumbs or hold in one hand then use two fingers of the same hand. Apple mainly use it for zooming photos. You can do similar with one finger, hold your thumb down on the centre of the touch screen and slide outwards to zoom in. Do the same but touch edge of screen and slide finger to middle of screen to zoom out. The above has the advantage of being possible one handed. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
I had to make a change to my order after the ARE_YOU_SURE emails were sent out so I canceled it and made a new one. At that point the order process had a checkbox saying I have been warned! I didn't get an ARE_YOU_SURE email for the new order - I assume the checkbox was in place of this, and orders like mine will still be processed. Could I get some confirmation of this please? Thank you, Justyn. On 24/07/07, William Lai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. Hope this helps, OpenMoko Orders Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[via Slashdot] yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards
Interesting blog post when you consider the custom cases possibility: http://trevors-trinkets.blogspot.com/2007/07/five-finger-keyboards.html via: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/23/1256213from=rss Also (blog comments squeezed out): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_keyboard http://xaphoon.com/dataegg/ (originally developed for NASA astronauts) http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/frogpad_ifrog_bluetooth_keyboard_review Cheers, FL0 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
Dear OpenMoko Orders Team, I originally did have Order #1883 and answered YES_I_DO for a black/ silver. Then I decided to change the delivery address and got the information that I should cancel the order and place a new one because your systems can't handle that directly. This gave me RT #3783 and there was no second YES_I_DO e-mail. Does this mean I have now to wait two more weeks or so because I just changed the destination of shipment? If it gets more delay, I have to cancel the order and change the destination again because I am not there any more... I did also offer several times to help by opening an European Redistribution point because I run my own online shop for handheld linux devices, but did not get a response. With best regards, Nikolaus Schaller The Handheld-Linux Shop http://www.handheld-linux.com Make the customer come back and not the product Am 24.07.2007 um 10:10 schrieb William Lai: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
I didn't get an ARE_YOU_SURE email for the new order - I assume the checkbox was in place of this, and orders like mine will still be processed. Could I get some confirmation of this please? Yes, this is correct. ARE_YOU_SURE emails are for pre-checkbox orders. -Will On Jul 24, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Justyn Butler wrote: I had to make a change to my order after the ARE_YOU_SURE emails were sent out so I canceled it and made a new one. At that point the order process had a checkbox saying I have been warned! I didn't get an ARE_YOU_SURE email for the new order - I assume the checkbox was in place of this, and orders like mine will still be processed. Could I get some confirmation of this please? Thank you, Justyn. On 24/07/07, William Lai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. Hope this helps, OpenMoko Orders Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Henryk Plötz wrote: Don't worry too much about that right now. I don't know what the current plan for this problem is but, given that OpenMoko already uses dbus, I'm quite sure that it will include dbus. Going from I have an application that, when a call comes in, pops up a dialog and asks the user to accept or reject the call to I have an application that, when a call comes in, broadcasts a dbus message 'There's a call from ..., anyone want to handle that?' and waits for a reply ... 'Anyone? Anyone? Ok, openmoko-dialer, your turn'. is easy. Only if it isn't already hard-coded to go to the dialer in the first place, which is why I'm bringing this up now. Adding dbus support is *not* the hard part, that's getting calls working at all (and of course all the nifty things you'd want to plug in, but those are outside of the scope of the base infrastructure). I agree that adding D-Bus support is not in itself difficult, but trying to put the 'right' system in place is not trivial. You cannot broadcast a D-Bus method so you need some sort of mediator in the middle (you could broacast a signal but that's fire-and-forget so you then have no idea if anyone is even considering replying). As such you need a central arbitrator to handle this functionality. I've been playing with some code locally in the last few days to get my head around this idea, and will write up a few use cases on the Wiki so that everyone can see where this is heading. I understand and agree that making/receiving calls is the most important thing right now for the core team but I and no doubt most of the rest of the people outside of the core team can't help much there, so if there is a way of them being able to build extensions to the will-be functionality without getting in the core team's way it should help all round. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
Oops - wasn't thought to be a public response. That is another reason why I would perfer a Web based forum because you can delete or modify messages there. Am 24.07.2007 um 12:00 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Dear OpenMoko Orders Team, I originally did have Order #1883 and answered YES_I_DO for a black/ silver. Then I decided to change the delivery address and got the information that I should cancel the order and place a new one because your systems can't handle that directly. This gave me RT #3783 and there was no second YES_I_DO e-mail. ... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [via Slashdot] yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards
Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Interesting blog post when you consider the custom cases possibility: http://trevors-trinkets.blogspot.com/2007/07/five-finger-keyboards.html Always better sticking with the convention 0-9 abc def type keyboard. Anything unconventional will split people 50:50, half will love it (mostly geeks), half won't. Besides, typing numbers by holding down multiple keys just seems silly. KISS = Keep it simple stupid. I'd much sooner see OLED buttons where the text can change to suit the task. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Jim McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : hat everyone can see where this is heading. I understand and agree that making/receiving calls is the most important thing right now for the core team but I and no doubt most of the rest of the people outside of the core team can't help much there, so if there is a way of them being able to build extensions to the will-be functionality without getting in the core team's way it should help all round. There's two approaches, get the core functionality working solidly first. Then create the hooks and extensibility. Second is to do both concurrently. Each approach has its advantages. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hear Me FIC
Hello, On 7/24/07, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hear_Me_FIC [... cut...] Appreciate your thoughts, I like it. Perhaps you should add a paragraph at the start that explains what the page is for, and if the priorities listed are the views / wishes of the community or the official priorities of FIC? -- Regards, Torfinn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Edited out of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners?
While anxiously waiting for my your order has been shipped email, I checked the P1_Owners page and found that my name had been edited out. You may want to check that your name is still there. Cindy M ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Edited out of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners?
Mine has disappeared also. Seems someone reorganized the wiki page so that it is now sorted on ordernumber. Courtesy of a wiki requires that if you modify a page so drastically to inform the user through his 'My Talk' page ... On 7/24/07, Cindy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While anxiously waiting for my your order has been shipped email, I checked the P1_Owners page and found that my name had been edited out. You may want to check that your name is still there. Cindy M ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Myk Melez wrote: Myk Melez wrote: Gau, Frank wrote: Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: ... My Order# 2309 My order number is #1987. My YES_I_DO request was sent by FIC on Friday, July 13 at 6:43pm PDT (Saturday, July 14 1:43am UTC). I received it at approximately 7:03pm (2:03am) that evening, and I sent a response at 7:05pm (2:05am). Update: I just received a payment received message. It says they'll send out my order ASAP and will notify me again when it's been sent. Sounds like it'll go out too late for me to receive it before heading off for OSCON tomorrow afternoon, unfortunately. -myk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community w00t! I got charged at 2:16AM EDT! My order is #2012. Thank you OpenMoko Team for all your hard work! -Cassj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokoMakefile under Ubuntu Feisty
Deepank Gupta wrote: Running Mokomakefile is slow, because bitbake is a bit slow right now and it build lots and lots of packages. Gcc internal error must have come when you were installing qemu. Try sudo apt-get install gcc-3.4 More instructions on installing openMoko development environment for Ubuntu Feisty at : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshiloh ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Deepank... Thanks a bunch for that posting! I'm running Ubuntu 7.04, and your post will be a great help. I'll try it out tonight after work. Cheers...Cassj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Edited out of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners?
Moin, Am Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:21:29 -0400 schrieb Cindy: While anxiously waiting for my your order has been shipped email, I checked the P1_Owners page and found that my name had been edited out. You may want to check that your name is still there. It appears that someone by the name of Harrisonmetz used a script to refactor the table to have the ticket number in the first column and also sort by that number: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=P1_Ownersdiff=13811oldid=13764 Apparently the script dropped all lines that did not contain the ticket number prefixed with a #. This includes at least @Dexter, Ted Lemon, Cindy M and Marc Verwerft. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Moin, Am Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:45:51 +0200 schrieb ramsesoriginal: Or, I mean, everybody could satart making the addon packs. why not? Because the hole actually fulfills a very specific role: the microphone is in there. They way I've heard it there are basically two ways to perform echo-cancellation on a mobile phone: the expensive software way, or the simple hardware way by putting the microphone into a hole. That's what the Neo does. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
I hate to sound angry and impatient but what I'd like to know is why you aren't processing orders based on RT numbers. I kind of busted my ass to make sure I had one of the first orders in and I got order number 1843. We are processing orders based on RT numbers. With that assertion, I'd say AmEx is really slow (or at least the Company Card which I have). I'm 1844 and got the Payment Received email only this morning. On a sidenote, AmEx doesn't show any amount deducted amount on my private webpage. Nor the FIC amount, neither the (much higher) conference fee I paid yesterday. PS: I ordered before Mastercard was enabled, or I would have used my Mastercard :) PS2: and now, I can finally relax, knowing FIC receivedprocessed my order. The Payment Received mail made my day! Early morning :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 01:21, Giles Jones wrote: On 24 Jul 2007, at 00:09, Nkoli wrote: Nokia are a brand, along with Samsung and Sony Ericsson they own the market. It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them on contract. Until operators are pushing them and people know what the brand means (ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know. I'm not sure about the rest of europe, but in the Netherlands it's fairly normal to go to a shop and purchase whatever phone you want together with whatever contract you want. The phone shop will simply get a provision for each contract sold and use this to discount the phones they sell. This results in lists like this: http://www.gsmweb.nl/tmobile/index_toestel.htm You really don't need anything from an operator to get on that list, when there is demand for a phone it will can be sold both with and without contracts. Overhere FIC needs to get these resellers on board, not the operators. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
PRESS: Hands-on with the OpenMoko Phone
http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/hands-on-with-t.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing... aGPS uses
Adam Krikstone wrote: AGPS is where focus needs to be. This natural (and free) comparative advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers. Of these, I think only the following are not on wiki: 7. Neo ping - wifi/bt in conjunction with accelerometers able to find location phones when aGPS is unavailable. short distance This can't be done. See Accelerometer_Fundamentals on the wiki 10. Weather tracker - gives estimate of how long before front/severe weather will reach current location. Might give false positives/inaccurate time. Highlight areas that are flooded and map around. You can practically only pull from public services - so you're utterly reliant on them, this isn't a display, but a data problem. 12. Coverage mapper - ability to remember when phone loses GSM coverage, warn next time about dead spot or have ability for all users to submit data to compile more realistic coverage maps Now that's hadny. 15. Crime geocode - warns when entering high crime area, reminds to lock doors, etc. Again, data-driven, if you can get the data... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM receiver and Traffic Message Channel?
Sebastian Krause wrote: Hello! I'm wondering if there's an FM radio receiver built into the Neo1973 or any plan to include in the future. At least in the wiki pages I could barely find information about that. It's in the hardware wishlist. traffic information signalling - if it's the same as in the UK - typically isn't part of the small mobile-suitable FM radio chips. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#TV.2Fradio_receiver It would be interesting to be able to receive traffic information by TMC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_Message_Channel) because here in Germany that's totally free while other traffic information by GSM etc might cost some money. Of course eventually it would also be nice to receive digital radio like DAB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting) or DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale). But I suppose these days hardware chips for that are just too rare and expensive right now to be included. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/24/07, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 24 July 2007 01:21, Giles Jones wrote: On 24 Jul 2007, at 00:09, Nkoli wrote: Nokia are a brand, along with Samsung and Sony Ericsson they own the market. It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them on contract. Until operators are pushing them and people know what the brand means (ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know. I'm not sure about the rest of europe, but in the Netherlands it's fairly normal to go to a shop and purchase whatever phone you want together with whatever contract you want. The phone shop will simply get a provision for each contract sold and use this to discount the phones they sell. This results in lists like this: http://www.gsmweb.nl/tmobile/index_toestel.htm You really don't need anything from an operator to get on that list, when there is demand for a phone it will can be sold both with and without contracts. Overhere FIC needs to get these resellers on board, not the operators. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community In Italy it's similar. I think it would be cool to have some sort of partnership with big chains like MediaWorld/MediaMarkt, or official operator Shops (they always have some sort of cooperation, and geting in there would mean to see the phone in 80% of the shops). -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [via Slashdot] yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards
Giles Jones wrote: Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Interesting blog post when you consider the custom cases possibility: http://trevors-trinkets.blogspot.com/2007/07/five-finger-keyboards.html Always better sticking with the convention 0-9 abc def type keyboard. Anything unconventional will split people 50:50, half will love it (mostly geeks), half won't. Besides, typing numbers by holding down multiple keys just seems silly. KISS = Keep it simple stupid. I'd much sooner see OLED buttons where the text can change to suit the task. Those are quite expensive per. I've used a chording keyboard. I found it hard to get 6WPM (Microwriter Agenda) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 14:47:21 AVee wrote: You really don't need anything from an operator to get on that list, when there is demand for a phone it will can be sold both with and without contracts. Overhere FIC needs to get these resellers on board, not the operators. In order to reach shops, you'll however usually need to setup a distribution channels. Most shops don't deal directly with manufacturers, but rather with distributors/wholesellers such as Dangaard. Most shops only deal with one distributor for their inventory. -- Nicolas Bougues Axialys Interactive ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On 7/24/07, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 24 July 2007 01:21, Giles Jones wrote: On 24 Jul 2007, at 00:09, Nkoli wrote: Nokia are a brand, along with Samsung and Sony Ericsson they own the market. It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them on contract. Until operators are pushing them and people know what the brand means (ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know. I'm not sure about the rest of europe, but in the Netherlands it's fairly normal to go to a shop and purchase whatever phone you want together with whatever contract you want. The phone shop will simply get a provision for each contract sold and use this to discount the phones they sell. This results in lists like this: http://www.gsmweb.nl/tmobile/index_toestel.htm You really don't need anything from an operator to get on that list, when there is demand for a phone it will can be sold both with and without contracts. Overhere FIC needs to get these resellers on board, not the operators. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Same in Belgium. We have the 3 big operators (Proximus, Base, Mobistar) who have their own network. Besides that we have approx. 30 virtual operators (who rent from the 3 above). None of them will refuse a phone to hook up to their network. Guess this also counts as 'free' :-) Regards, Marc. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Mark Eichin wrote: Joshua Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% with Coomac. Sure it would be nice if we had a Digital SLR with us at all times but that is completely impractical. Unless you are some sort of weirdo chances are you are not going to be carrying that large camera around with you everywhere you go. How rude :-) And also unobservant - subcompact point-and-shoots are coming with 10MP sensors and 10x zoom lenses with IS these days, and they're about the size of the larger phones, and have *hugely* better quality than even the N90 - and lots of people *do* carry them everywhere. I do not want to have another device that can get stolen, dropped, or left, and has to be charged, and have data transferred off it. I do not want a complex camera with moving lenses. I want a camera that I can take pictures of price labels and goods in a shop, so I can comparison shop between (say) floor-tiles, without having to write down stuff. I want a camera that can take notes while I dissasemble stuff, to see which bolt went where. I want a camera to add thumbnails of people to contact apps. 99% of the time, when I want a camera, VGA with a LED flash would do just fine. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing... aGPS uses
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Hello, On 7/21/07, Krzysztof Kajkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! That's a wonderful list you made! I have one doubt though - how well would that AGPS chip work, especially in buildings. I have Garmin GPS which does not get signal reception if anything is between it and GPS satellite so it does not work in my appartment or shows locations with massive error. Does anyone tested AGPS yet? Not tested, but I read on a Norwegian mobile phone news site about someone with a Nokia phone with GPS. Recently Nokia had enabled the AGPS functionality in the phone through a software update, and after that this person was able to get a GPS fix inside his apartment. Before (without AGPS) he hadn't been able to get a fix inside at all. I guess it depends on the hardware. A _BIG_ part of it is the software. One major benefit of AGPS in some modes is that the AGPS server has perfect knowledge of the satellite broadcast. This can be used to great advantage, as the server can intepret the signal as basically a 'best guess', rather than actually needing to decode each bit. Think of seeing something through trees, and trying to work out what it is, compared to being asked to locate a known object in the same scene. Sufficiently clever software may be able to get a substantial portion of the benefits. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: building openmoko devel image [solved]
List, Please disregard this line of email conversation. I found that the problem was in fact with Java on the host platform, not OpenMoko. Simply unmerging all java, manually removing all remaining java files, and emerging Java again fixed the problem. Charles Lohr Since I don't really know the community, just say when and I can join the devel lists and move to that. (Or we can just do the discussion off-list) I actually have a very similar java setup (it looks like I'm just missing the jre 1.4): [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ equery list jre [ Searching for package 'jre' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ -] dev-java/blackdown-jre-1.4.2.03-r14 (1.4.2) [I--] [ -] dev-java/sun-jre-bin-1.6.0.02 (1.6) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.5.0 (1.5) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.6.0 (1.6) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ eselect java-vm show Current system-vm sun-jdk-1.5 Current user-vm sun-jdk-1.5 And -- with regards to the log file; the log file seems to only contain what the standard output provides. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ cat /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/temp/log.do_compile.3610 NOTE: make make[1]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' Making all in autoconf-lib-link make[2]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' Making all in m4 make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/m4' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/m4' Making all in tests make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/tests' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/tests' make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' Making all in gettext-runtime make[2]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' make all-recursive make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' Making all in doc make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/doc' make[4]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/doc' Making all in intl make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' make[4]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' Making all in intl-java make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf make[4]: *** [libintl.jar] Error 1 make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' FATAL: oe_runmake failed I am curious what your GettextResource.java is. Since it's possible that the problem is in the GettextResource.java file or my java selection. Charles Charles Lohr wrote: To any willing to help: I'm a gentoo user who is considering buying one of the FIC1973 phones for developing new software for. I figured I should be able to 'make' the phone before buying it. Note that if this is being sent to the wrong list, please direct me in the right direction. If we get into too many details, it might be best to move it to openmoko-devel but quick questions are hopefully ok. I run Gentoo here as well, and have it working, so there is hope. ;-)
Camera idea
How about a camera similar to what dell has on their smaller XPS's now, with the rotating barrel. http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1210?c=uscs=19l=ens=dhs -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [via Slashdot] yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards
Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I'd much sooner see OLED buttons where the text can change to suit the task. Those are quite expensive per. True, we're not talking about this model or the next. I would sooner see a limited number of adaptable keys than 5 fairly fixed ones. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: Camera idea
-- Forwarded message -- From: Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Jul 24, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Camera idea To: Cailan Halliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't seen the XPS camera up close, so I can't comment on it. But something that is closer to our application would be the LG CU500. I have this phone currently, and it has a camera with a rotating barrel. Now I rarely use the camera, so it doesn't make a difference to me. But I suppose for people that are into that, the feature might be nice. http://images.google.com/images?q=lg+cu500ie=utf-8oe=utf-8rls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialclient=firefox-aum=1sa=Ntab=wi On 7/24/07, Cailan Halliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about a camera similar to what dell has on their smaller XPS's now, with the rotating barrel. http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1210?c=uscs=19l=ens=dhs -Cailan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
camera? yes please! ..
.. count me in for a definite yes-vote for the camera, i believe it is an excellent user interface .. and, does anyone know when the openmoko devkits are going to be shipped? we're waiting for ours here in vienna, and i wanna be able to plan my play time! ; jay ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re Multitouch
And how do you scroll? On 7/24/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : An regardin is multi touch really that awesome? I think yes of course, but maybe not in a so little screen and surelly it is not worth the trouble of re-coding a lot of stuff to make it work. It has its uses, the important thing is to design the interface of this phone to be useable with thumbs. There's interface elements which are too small at present. I also dislike the Start menu too (too much like Windows Mobile). Multitouch is fiddly on the move, you're reliant on being able to hold the device and use two thumbs or hold in one hand then use two fingers of the same hand. Apple mainly use it for zooming photos. You can do similar with one finger, hold your thumb down on the centre of the touch screen and slide outwards to zoom in. Do the same but touch edge of screen and slide finger to middle of screen to zoom out. The above has the advantage of being possible one handed. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
Marc Verwerft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Same in Belgium. We have the 3 big operators (Proximus, Base, Mobistar) who have their own network. Besides that we have approx. 30 virtual operators (who rent from the 3 above). None of them will refuse a phone to hook up to their network. Guess this also counts as 'free' :-) Regards, Marc. You can do that in the UK, but people don't want to pay the SIM-free prices for phones. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re Multitouch
Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : And how do you scroll? Touch and hold then move to zoom. A shorter press and move to scroll (a sort of flick, like Apple use to move through contacts). It's all possible and usable, multitouch isn't going to be much fun on a small screen. For a larger screened device it will be handy. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re Multitouch
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 17:11, Ortwin Regel wrote: And how do you scroll? Could use a drag along the edge of the screen like the synaptics touchpad driver does. Seems like this might be specific to a photo viewer though. It would be better to have a consistent set of zooming and scrolling methods for all apps, but providing an application-specific shortcut might sometimes be good. On 7/24/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : An regardin is multi touch really that awesome? I think yes of course, but maybe not in a so little screen and surelly it is not worth the trouble of re-coding a lot of stuff to make it work. It has its uses, the important thing is to design the interface of this phone to be useable with thumbs. There's interface elements which are too small at present. I also dislike the Start menu too (too much like Windows Mobile). Multitouch is fiddly on the move, you're reliant on being able to hold the device and use two thumbs or hold in one hand then use two fingers of the same hand. Apple mainly use it for zooming photos. You can do similar with one finger, hold your thumb down on the centre of the touch screen and slide outwards to zoom in. Do the same but touch edge of screen and slide finger to middle of screen to zoom out. The above has the advantage of being possible one handed. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/24/07, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice. Exactly, build it on solid ground (a web forum). I'm guessing that's not what you really meant, but I'm still not sure your point is. Are you saying that if you don't want your email address harvested by spammers, then you should not participate in discussions about openmoko at all? Keeping your email address private IS a valid reason for the use of forums. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as you choose. And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it. There are plenty of ways of staying in touch when using a web forum. Almost every forum I have used has some way to subscribe or watch particular threads. When you visit the site, you can view a list of all your subscribed threads that have been updated since your last visit. You also have the option to get email notifications each time(or as daily/weekly digests) those threads are updated. In my opinion the best thing about forums as compared to mailing lists(although I'm not advocating *replacing* mailing lists in any way) is it dramatically increases the *Signal To Noise Ratio*. Some people just don't want to read every damn conversation remotely related to openmoko. They want to ask their specific question, and be notified when they get a reply. Or they can search for their particular issue, find some existing thread, and subscribe to that one. This is what makes forums great. Hans Loeblich ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? --Dan On 7/24/07, Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time email users. (I mean the generation before the invention of the http protocol. If one can consider HTTP 0.9 to be a protocol ;) ) And yes, email is important to these old timers. Mailing lists are quite well standardized, there are less than half a dozen mailing list management packages that matter, and even these have mostly the same behaviour. I'm subscribed on more than 20 mailing lists (most of these in the Linux/Python/PostgreSQL realm), that I follow more or less depending upon work pressure. I can keep a tab on these mailing lists, because they use a standard interface. Navigating 20 different forums, is not feasible: - -) I need to actively pull information. That's time I could be already using to read messages. - -) the UI of forums is really not uniform. I need to join, login (depending upon the forum and my browser setting each time, every 2 weeks, never), manage to find if new messages that might interest me, ... - -) the UI of mailing lists is my known standard mail client. You can see the difference, e.g. my wife participates in a forum based cooking community. Notice: relative newcomer (less than a decade Internet experience), 1 community (not dozens of mailing lists needed). Basically, mailing lists are more efficient. Not necessarily easy on newbies. (And yes, efficient does not mean easy. Efficient is measured in units like transaction per time unit. And I can clearly process (or decide not to process) more messages per hour in my mailer than with my browser) Andreas Daniel Robinson wrote: What is it about engineers that they act like any idea other than theirs is not worthy of consideration? I don't know any of you, and I am only responding to this email because it is typical of the kind of traffic that has been going back and forth about this issue. Don't build your house on ice? This is typical of the dismissiveness with which people have responded about this issue. The straw man being used here, that wanting one position or the other is as meritorious as building one's house on ice, is not valid. It smacks of sanctimony and that should be avoided. On 7/24/07, *Ted Lemon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite frankly I am completely, totally, overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were *very* reluctant (like myself) to join. Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as you choose. And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it. Forums aren't bad - they're just different. I think it would be great if the casual traffic migrated to a forum. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpjSvHJdudm4KnO0RAoYxAKCBHGel3VGjh+UUUAIa2aw92mGW5wCg6BEj N/FJkT49Lx7LTCadSE0jP08= =oU8p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
Giles Jones wrote: Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Nokia 6110 Navigator - advertised on the back of the bus I followed on my way home, and this is way away in Perth Western Australia.. clare Thing is, we have better hardware than Nokia in terms of GPS. They use an AGPS solution which is just part of the chipset they use. It's not a powerful standalone GPS unit. I'm not sure if it will be possible to have a turn by turn routing system for this phone. Maybe if someone could do a version of WINE but using the Windows Mobile API we could just run their apps? :) Tomtom - the hardware units - run on comparable hardware to the Neo. Arm under linux. It's not completely impossible that it could be convinced in software to run a copy of the hardwares software. The UI is broadly compatible - screen of a sort-of-similar size to the minimal one, and touchscreen. The mobile phone one costs $99. It's not eventually that unrealistic to expect that FIC could buy at half this, and sell to end users installed on shipped phones at $75 say. Which is quite reasonable. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On Jul 24, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Daniel Robinson wrote: The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? duh, use both mailing lists and forums. any new forum post - new post to the list. and vice versa. my vote, if we can't get that working, is to do both, even if we can't keep them in sync. those who want to use the list will use the list, and those on the forum can do that too .. its not a bad thing to have two camps to sit in. mailing lists always seem to tend to have a much faster mean response time between participants than forums do, and this is precisely why forums are often preferred, for their general 'lagginess' which doesn't require attention the user isn't willing to spend unless its on their own schedule.. both means of communication are valid for different reasons. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
On 24 Jul 2007, at 19:01, Ian Stirling wrote: Tomtom - the hardware units - run on comparable hardware to the Neo. Arm under linux. It's not completely impossible that it could be convinced in software to run a copy of the hardwares software. They're only obliged to provide the GPL code they modified and link with. So unless you can get hold of the binary version from somewhere you won't be able to run it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/24/07, Daniel Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. I think you may fine that mailing lists are more efficient if you want to read all information that comes across the list. If however, you don't care about a significant portion of the posts (like I have stopped caring to see this one). A forum is more efficient cause you end up deleting it over and over again instead of just not clicking on that thread. The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? Most people seem to specialize and therefore don't actually care about all posts, so I think a forum is marginally more suited especially when most of the traffic is dedicated to dumb arguments like this one (which I realize I have now participated in). So to increase communication I really think both solutions, synchronized is best. But I really think it should wait for some official word if an official one is on its way (and delayed by more important things like shipping the phones). Mark --Dan On 7/24/07, Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time email users. (I mean the generation before the invention of the http protocol. If one can consider HTTP 0.9 to be a protocol ;) ) And yes, email is important to these old timers. Mailing lists are quite well standardized, there are less than half a dozen mailing list management packages that matter, and even these have mostly the same behaviour. I'm subscribed on more than 20 mailing lists (most of these in the Linux/Python/PostgreSQL realm), that I follow more or less depending upon work pressure. I can keep a tab on these mailing lists, because they use a standard interface. Navigating 20 different forums, is not feasible: - -) I need to actively pull information. That's time I could be already using to read messages. - -) the UI of forums is really not uniform. I need to join, login (depending upon the forum and my browser setting each time, every 2 weeks, never), manage to find if new messages that might interest me, ... - -) the UI of mailing lists is my known standard mail client. You can see the difference, e.g. my wife participates in a forum based cooking community. Notice: relative newcomer (less than a decade Internet experience), 1 community (not dozens of mailing lists needed). Basically, mailing lists are more efficient. Not necessarily easy on newbies. (And yes, efficient does not mean easy. Efficient is measured in units like transaction per time unit. And I can clearly process (or decide not to process) more messages per hour in my mailer than with my browser) Andreas Daniel Robinson wrote: What is it about engineers that they act like any idea other than theirs is not worthy of consideration? I don't know any of you, and I am only responding to this email because it is typical of the kind of traffic that has been going back and forth about this issue. Don't build your house on ice? This is typical of the dismissiveness with which people have responded about this issue. The straw man being used here, that wanting one position or the other is as meritorious as building one's house on ice, is not valid. It smacks of sanctimony and that should be avoided. On 7/24/07, *Ted Lemon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite frankly I am completely, totally, overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were *very* reluctant (like myself) to join. Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as you choose. And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it. Forums aren't bad - they're just different. I think it would be great if the casual traffic migrated to a forum. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, the point is that mail clients are tuned for text communication. Webbrowsers are tuned to present a page or application downloaded from a server. Andreas Daniel Robinson wrote: The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? --Dan On 7/24/07, *Andreas Kostyrka* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time email users. (I mean the generation before the invention of the http protocol. If one can consider HTTP 0.9 to be a protocol ;) ) And yes, email is important to these old timers. Mailing lists are quite well standardized, there are less than half a dozen mailing list management packages that matter, and even these have mostly the same behaviour. I'm subscribed on more than 20 mailing lists (most of these in the Linux/Python/PostgreSQL realm), that I follow more or less depending upon work pressure. I can keep a tab on these mailing lists, because they use a standard interface. Navigating 20 different forums, is not feasible: -) I need to actively pull information. That's time I could be already using to read messages. -) the UI of forums is really not uniform. I need to join, login (depending upon the forum and my browser setting each time, every 2 weeks, never), manage to find if new messages that might interest me, ... -) the UI of mailing lists is my known standard mail client. You can see the difference, e.g. my wife participates in a forum based cooking community. Notice: relative newcomer (less than a decade Internet experience), 1 community (not dozens of mailing lists needed). Basically, mailing lists are more efficient. Not necessarily easy on newbies. (And yes, efficient does not mean easy. Efficient is measured in units like transaction per time unit. And I can clearly process (or decide not to process) more messages per hour in my mailer than with my browser) Andreas Daniel Robinson wrote: What is it about engineers that they act like any idea other than theirs is not worthy of consideration? I don't know any of you, and I am only responding to this email because it is typical of the kind of traffic that has been going back and forth about this issue. Don't build your house on ice? This is typical of the dismissiveness with which people have responded about this issue. The straw man being used here, that wanting one position or the other is as meritorious as building one's house on ice, is not valid. It smacks of sanctimony and that should be avoided. On 7/24/07, *Ted Lemon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite frankly I am completely, totally, overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were *very* reluctant (like myself) to join. Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as you choose. And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it. Forums aren't bad - they're just different. I think it would be great if the casual traffic migrated to a forum. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hans L wrote: I'm guessing that's not what you really meant, but I'm still not sure your point is. Are you saying that if you don't want your email address harvested by spammers, then you should not participate in discussions about openmoko at all? Keeping your email address private IS a valid reason for the use of forums. Then use something like spamgourmet.org, setup your spam filter, etc. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as you choose. And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it. There are plenty of ways of staying in touch when using a web forum. Almost every forum I have used has some way to subscribe or watch particular threads. When you visit the site, you can view a list of all your subscribed threads that have been updated since your last That's exactly my point = almost every has some way to implement standard functionality. That's really not very efficient, isn't it? visit. You also have the option to get email notifications each Well, why would I want to have email notification if I cannot reply in my mail client? time(or as daily/weekly digests) those threads are updated. In my opinion the best thing about forums as compared to mailing lists(although I'm not advocating *replacing* mailing lists in any way) is it dramatically increases the *Signal To Noise Ratio*. Some people just don't want to read every damn conversation remotely related to openmoko. They want to ask their specific question, and be That's why they can pick and look at the threads they are interested with their MUA, or did I get something wrong. Btw, I can look at the mails with my laptop, and I can easily look at them with my mobile, as both share an IMAP folder. I can access it with a webbrowser by using the webmail interface. And all use the same data, via IMAP. All the superfluous interaction needed to work with a webbased forum make it not really feasible to use my mobile to catch up on the community while sitting in a train. (And my E61 has one of the best mobile browsers currently available, but it still is a pain to scroll around). notified when they get a reply. Or they can search for their particular issue, find some existing thread, and subscribe to that one. This is what makes forums great. Well, my mail client on the E61 and my thunderbird on the laptop have really nice search boxes. And even funnier, they work the same way on the openmoko mailing lists and on the Python tutor mailing list. Now the 55 points question: Can you tell me if the search functionality for the Django mailing list works the same as the one for the Python mailing list? Other fine things about mail: Identity management (although my E61 does not support gpg :(, so it's not perfect; Hint: How do you know that MrX at Forum X is the same person that [EMAIL PROTECTED] is? You don't.). Client better suited to text communication (e.g. spell checking, etc.), while many forums have to live with a textarea tag. And all have to live with that when Javascript is turned off, which is currently the recommendation for any site that displays user contributed text. (you never can be sure that the site implements the HTML filtering correctly, can you?) Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpkJBHJdudm4KnO0RAsVEAJ0a+bXk6omIPe39BML6TjxPnOB2hQCfTHiK zLX8nk7X6Yrlh6bejLYk+9Q= =9yUI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
Cingular/ATT doesn't seem to have any problem with letting users make their own ring tones. On my Samsung SGH-A707, I can select any MP3 file under 1MB as a ring tone. I have a couple on my phone that I edited with GarageBand to select a small enough clip and then downloaded to my phone. --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: OK, the forum is coming..
Is there a web form to search the mailing lists ? I didn't find it, and didn't want to ask if that had been asked before, but since I can't find the search form, well, I'm asking :-) I prefer forums over lists because forums are a lot less distracting... but at least when the lists are searchable, there's a way to find the info you want without wasting hours going through threads... I mean, I'm getting over 10 digests every day, I can't even begin to consider being subscribed to this list when the word spreads... Keep the mailing lists for the developers if you like, but we need a forum for the users. _ From: Daniel Robinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 juillet 2007 13:46 To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming.. The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? --Dan On 7/24/07, Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time email users. (I mean the generation before the invention of the http protocol. If one can consider HTTP 0.9 to be a protocol ;) ) And yes, email is important to these old timers. Mailing lists are quite well standardized, there are less than half a dozen mailing list management packages that matter, and even these have mostly the same behaviour. I'm subscribed on more than 20 mailing lists (most of these in the Linux/Python/PostgreSQL realm), that I follow more or less depending upon work pressure. I can keep a tab on these mailing lists, because they use a standard interface. Navigating 20 different forums, is not feasible: - -) I need to actively pull information. That's time I could be already using to read messages. - -) the UI of forums is really not uniform. I need to join, login (depending upon the forum and my browser setting each time, every 2 weeks, never), manage to find if new messages that might interest me, ... - -) the UI of mailing lists is my known standard mail client. You can see the difference, e.g. my wife participates in a forum based cooking community. Notice: relative newcomer (less than a decade Internet experience), 1 community (not dozens of mailing lists needed). Basically, mailing lists are more efficient. Not necessarily easy on newbies. (And yes, efficient does not mean easy. Efficient is measured in units like transaction per time unit. And I can clearly process (or decide not to process) more messages per hour in my mailer than with my browser) Andreas Daniel Robinson wrote: What is it about engineers that they act like any idea other than theirs is not worthy of consideration? I don't know any of you, and I am only responding to this email because it is typical of the kind of traffic that has been going back and forth about this issue. Don't build your house on ice? This is typical of the dismissiveness with which people have responded about this issue. The straw man being used here, that wanting one position or the other is as meritorious as building one's house on ice, is not valid. It smacks of sanctimony and that should be avoided. On 7/24/07, *Ted Lemon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite frankly I am completely, totally, overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were *very* reluctant (like myself) to join. Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay attention or not as you choose. And if you miss something, it's easy to go back and find it. Forums aren't bad - they're just different. I think it would be great if the casual traffic migrated to a forum. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Jay Vaughan wrote: On Jul 24, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Daniel Robinson wrote: The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? duh, use both mailing lists and forums. any new forum post - new post to the list. and vice versa. That was my thought too. Anyone know of an existing solution? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
List Config
Can someone fix the lists so that replies go to the list not the sender? I seem to be getting at least two of every email that is going out to the lists. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 www.google.com? (Hint: add a site:openmoko.com or so to your query) Andreas Jacques Poulin wrote: Is there a web form to search the mailing lists ? I didn't find it, and didn't want to ask if that had been asked before, but since I can't find the search form, well, I'm asking :-) I prefer forums over lists because forums are a lot less distracting... but at least when the lists are searchable, there's a way to find the info you want without wasting hours going through threads... I mean, I'm getting over 10 digests every day, I can't even begin to consider being subscribed to this list when the word spreads... Why would you want to use digests? Even Outlook can handle filtering and sorting your email. To put it differently, there is at least one Linux based gadget that I use, that I'd probably put some time into it (it's my sat receiver ;) ), where I don't participate, because the community organizes around a forum. Well, end effect the community is very static and very small, and slowly dieing :( Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpkjTHJdudm4KnO0RAkctAKDYfOIorRnnW9aFUQGoysp2igDAvwCg09m2 S53O8/QUoElNnTrKrHmlZHk= =+icb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Ok, I set up a temporary forum until the guys @ openmoko get everything sorted out. I'm using phpbb. I think the forums are needed, for many of the reasons described in this thread. Primarily, to have another sounding board for new openmoko/neo users to just communicate, and keep this list cleaner. I set it up on my hosted domain space... I need another administrator and moderators, http://www.makeopensource.com/phpBB3 http://forums.makeopensource.com should resolve by tomorrow. Thanks, Kyle On 7/24/07, Jacques Poulin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a web form to search the mailing lists ? I didn't find it, and didn't want to ask if that had been asked before, but since I can't find the search form, well, I'm asking :-) I prefer forums over lists because forums are a lot less distracting... but at least when the lists are searchable, there's a way to find the info you want without wasting hours going through threads... I mean, I'm getting over 10 digests every day, I can't even begin to consider being subscribed to this list when the word spreads... Keep the mailing lists for the developers if you like, but we need a forum for the users. -- *From:* Daniel Robinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* 24 juillet 2007 13:46 *To:* community@lists.openmoko.org *Subject:* Re: OK, the forum is coming.. The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? --Dan On 7/24/07, Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time email users. (I mean the generation before the invention of the http protocol. If one can consider HTTP 0.9 to be a protocol ;) ) And yes, email is important to these old timers. Mailing lists are quite well standardized, there are less than half a dozen mailing list management packages that matter, and even these have mostly the same behaviour. I'm subscribed on more than 20 mailing lists (most of these in the Linux/Python/PostgreSQL realm), that I follow more or less depending upon work pressure. I can keep a tab on these mailing lists, because they use a standard interface. Navigating 20 different forums, is not feasible: - -) I need to actively pull information. That's time I could be already using to read messages. - -) the UI of forums is really not uniform. I need to join, login (depending upon the forum and my browser setting each time, every 2 weeks, never), manage to find if new messages that might interest me, ... - -) the UI of mailing lists is my known standard mail client. You can see the difference, e.g. my wife participates in a forum based cooking community. Notice: relative newcomer (less than a decade Internet experience), 1 community (not dozens of mailing lists needed). Basically, mailing lists are more efficient. Not necessarily easy on newbies. (And yes, efficient does not mean easy. Efficient is measured in units like transaction per time unit. And I can clearly process (or decide not to process) more messages per hour in my mailer than with my browser) Andreas Daniel Robinson wrote: What is it about engineers that they act like any idea other than theirs is not worthy of consideration? I don't know any of you, and I am only responding to this email because it is typical of the kind of traffic that has been going back and forth about this issue. Don't build your house on ice? This is typical of the dismissiveness with which people have responded about this issue. The straw man being used here, that wanting one position or the other is as meritorious as building one's house on ice, is not valid. It smacks of sanctimony and that should be avoided. On 7/24/07, *Ted Lemon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite frankly I am completely, totally, overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were *very* reluctant (like myself) to join. Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice. As for forums, they are very nice for casual use. They are terrible for staying in touch, unless you visit them obsessively. The nice thing about a mailing list is that the mail keeps arriving in your inbox, you see it go by, and you can pay
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, mailman (which openmoko uses) has integrated support for Usenet gatewaying. That would add one further option for people that want to keep up with the communication at their own pace. Plus there seem to a number of web - nntp tools where one would need to look over them which one would provide the best web forum like experience for users. Andreas Ben Burdette wrote: Jay Vaughan wrote: On Jul 24, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Daniel Robinson wrote: The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best served? duh, use both mailing lists and forums. any new forum post - new post to the list. and vice versa. That was my thought too. Anyone know of an existing solution? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpkt/HJdudm4KnO0RAtOyAJ9864mVEVtn0uMjnl/ytabq49bm/gCguuH+ jUTbcz36Sx4tntS2zevqDkc= =vr5n -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Ted Lemon wrote: Quite frankly I am completely, totally, overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were *very* reluctant (like myself) to join. Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly. Glad you can read my mind and figure out why I was reluctant to join a mailing list. Here's a hint, it has nothing to do with my email being exposed. Honestly, I just really don't like mailing lists...you can give me all the reasons in the world why *YOU* like them, but that will not change my opinion. I would be willing to bet (even quite large amounts, seriously) that I am not alone in this feeling either. Mailing lists are very efficient if you use them correctly. Several people have explained their overall technical benefits. However, even though it is by no means as difficult as compiling a custom kernel, the people are we are eventually going to be targeting will view it that way, and *WILL NOT USE THEM*, therefore rendering them useless as a communications method with that demographic. Until you (the collect you) realize this, there cannot be a meaningful discussion on this topic. The bottom line is that mailing lists are not an acceptable means of communicating with technical novices. AGAIN, we are not talking about discontinuing the development list (that is/should be used by *developers*). We are talking about Joe and Jane Sixpack, people that don't understand the term MUA, people that would be HORRIFIED if they started getting 70-80 email in a day, people who *don't* use email for project collaboration or searching for answers. *THAT* is the reason that we are requesting a forum. Not for me, and certainly not for you (again, the collective you) that look down upon anyone who can't figure out how to setup email filters, conversation threading, and whatever else is required to make mailing lists be the more efficient means of communicating. Get off your technical superiority high horse and realize WHY we are requesting this...for improved communication with those who are less technically savvy. Sorry for the rant, but the arrogance and snobbery are killing me in this discussion if you can't tell... -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 10:45:32AM -0700, Daniel Robinson wrote: The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum's is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to address. Probably it is. There are many people *in this community* in the same boat, and in general, those people will be the most knowledgeable and the most valuable sources of information, since they will tend to be more technically oriented, and be the most experienced internet users, and will be plugged in to more numerous sources of information (since email is indeed more efficient for being connected to many different information sources). To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient is to attempt proof by assertion. Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long experience in similar situations. Email is substantially more efficient, because it is intrinsically more powerful. For example: 1) Essentially any functionality a forum can support can be supported by good email clients -- threading, sorting (or categorization), searching, restricted visibility. Converse isn't true (see below). 2) Forums cannot be viewed when you are offline, but email is a store and forward protocol, and works perfectly with only occasional connections to the internet -- you can read your email on a plane; you can't read a forum. 3) A forum, and indeed any web-based application by definition, is fundamentally restricted to the functions that can be provided by a browser. Web-based email suffers the same restrictions, but email clients can make full use of the OS interface. And contrariwise, email also supports pure text-based clients -- try using a text-based browser on typical forum applications for an exercise in frustration. 4) With email, you get to pick what you want to keep and don't want to keep. With a forum you have no control -- garbage stays there unless removed by an admin. 5) Email is accessible to a far larger population. Email supports both web-based and client based interaction. It supports text and graphical UIs. It gives a decent user experience over less bandwidth. It works better with mobile devices (eg blackberry). 6) Email has far better support for exchanging documents, media, and other kinds of information. (Web interfaces have good support for *display*, but lousy support for *sending*.) 7) When you get really good at using a particular email client, that real down to the fingers expertise generalizes to every email list. Forums use different interfaces. Well, then, why not have forums for people who want them, and leave email for people who don't want them? The thing is, it doesn't work very well in practice. If experience is any guide, then the technically knowledgable people will use email, and won't waste much time on the forums. But a project at the current stage of the openmoko project will require lots of *technical* help for everyone, so what will happen is that you will have to follow the email lists anyway... I mean -- I could be wrong, but that's the way things seem to go with this kind of project. Kent -- Kent Crispin Technical Systems Manager ICANN ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Andreas Kostyrka wrote: To put it differently, there is at least one Linux based gadget that I use, that I'd probably put some time into it (it's my sat receiver ;) ), where I don't participate, because the community organizes around a forum. Well, end effect the community is very static and very small, and slowly dieing :( There you have it folks, unmistakable proof that forums kill communities. I mean if Andreas won't contribute to a forum, then it is most certainly doomed. :) (I kid, I kid) Well, I've said it before and I will say it again. We are not wanting to kill the mailing lists!!! We are wanting to supplement the mailing list with a forum. I cannot see ANY reason why this would be a bad thing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 37, Issue 15
Le mardi 24 juillet 2007, Deepank Gupta a écrit : Running Mokomakefile is slow, because bitbake is a bit slow right now and it build lots and lots of packages. Hi Deepank, The slowliness arrives during building busybox : it was no more possible to use the PC or to ssh in it until the gcc internal error. This was simply due to the swap which was gone as described in the bug report. Once the swap mounted, the PC with 512 MB of RAM can now build the image :-) . Gilles -- Oralux.org http://association.oralux.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 02:07:03PM -0500, Jonathon Suggs wrote: [...] The bottom line is that mailing lists are not an acceptable means of communicating with technical novices. AGAIN, we are not talking about discontinuing the development list (that is/should be used by *developers*). We are talking about Joe and Jane Sixpack, people that don't understand the term MUA, people that would be HORRIFIED if they started getting 70-80 email in a day, people who *don't* use email for project collaboration or searching for answers. *THAT* is the reason that we are requesting a forum. Not for me, and certainly not for you (again, the collective you) that look down upon anyone who can't figure out how to setup email filters, conversation threading, and whatever else is required to make mailing lists be the more efficient means of communicating. Get off your technical superiority high horse and realize WHY we are requesting this...for improved communication with those who are less technically savvy. Sorry for the rant, but the arrogance and snobbery are killing me in this discussion if you can't tell... Not arrogance or snobbery -- different view of reality. At this point, openmoko *is* a development project. It's emphatically not for Joe and Jane -- it says so on the web site, where you order your phone. There are disclaimers all over the place. It's not even for early adopters -- it's for hackers and developers. Explicitly. It is devoutly to be hoped that someday there will be a need for a forum for Joe and Jane. But as a real concern that's at *least* 6 months away. More realistically, it will be a year before there is a unit that will be robust enough for Joe and Jane. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not arrogance or snobbery -- different view of reality. At this point, openmoko *is* a development project. It's emphatically not for Joe and Jane -- it says so on the web site, where you order your phone. There are disclaimers all over the place. It's not even for early adopters -- it's for hackers and developers. Explicitly. It is devoutly to be hoped that someday there will be a need for a forum for Joe and Jane. But as a real concern that's at *least* 6 months away. More realistically, it will be a year before there is a unit that will be robust enough for Joe and Jane. Point well taken. However, we are starting to get some interest from people who fall into that middle ground category. They follow technology (to an extent) but aren't willing/capable to actively develop. So we are suggesting creating a forum to be able to answer their basic questions...ones that they wouldn't register on a mailing list to ask. Mailing lists are great tools for keeping the developers in touch, and so we should not change that (nor has that even been suggested). We are merely trying to establish another method to communicate with potential customers, even if they aren't going to be purchasing for 6-12 months. Sorry for being so aggressive in my posts, but seeing people shoot down the thoughts/ideas just because it doesn't suit them is a little arrogant/snobby. Anyway, thanks for bringing the tone down a little and making good solid points. -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, then, why not have forums for people who want them, and leave email for people who don't want them? The thing is, it doesn't work very well in practice. If experience is any guide, then the technically knowledgable people will use email, and won't waste much time on the forums. But a project at the current stage of the openmoko project will require lots of *technical* help for everyone, so what will happen is that you will have to follow the email lists anyway... I mean -- I could be wrong, but that's the way things seem to go with this kind of project. I agree with you, but no amount of debate will convince anyone and it is just wasting bandwidth. We're going to find out by experimentation but I expect a repeat of the Golgafrincham civilisation from the Hitchhiker's Guide. There are already similarities, re what people expect from fire and what color the wheel should be. ;-) Those with the questions will hang out on the forum and those with the answers will use the mailing lists, and people will grumble about the unhelpful developers not coming over to the forum to help. I'm actually looking forward to the forums, to reduce that kind of traffic on this list. Sadly, I know of several people who have unsubscribed from this list because of it, and switched exclusively to the devel lists instead. Come on over to distro-devel and let's talk about builds and drivers! Let's get started working on the apps on the openmoko-devel list! -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
The general tone on this item of discussion is This is what I want/need, therefore, that is the best solution (for everybody). What I have not seen is any concession to gather information. What I have seen is a lot of data-free analysis. What I would like to see is some examination of the traffic and what sort of organization can be placed on it. On 7/24/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not arrogance or snobbery -- different view of reality. At this point, openmoko *is* a development project. It's emphatically not for Joe and Jane -- it says so on the web site, where you order your phone. There are disclaimers all over the place. It's not even for early adopters -- it's for hackers and developers. Explicitly. It is devoutly to be hoped that someday there will be a need for a forum for Joe and Jane. But as a real concern that's at *least* 6 months away. More realistically, it will be a year before there is a unit that will be robust enough for Joe and Jane. Point well taken. However, we are starting to get some interest from people who fall into that middle ground category. They follow technology (to an extent) but aren't willing/capable to actively develop. So we are suggesting creating a forum to be able to answer their basic questions...ones that they wouldn't register on a mailing list to ask. Mailing lists are great tools for keeping the developers in touch, and so we should not change that (nor has that even been suggested). We are merely trying to establish another method to communicate with potential customers, even if they aren't going to be purchasing for 6-12 months. Sorry for being so aggressive in my posts, but seeing people shoot down the thoughts/ideas just because it doesn't suit them is a little arrogant/snobby. Anyway, thanks for bringing the tone down a little and making good solid points. -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, you started to get personal. Now, a newbie forum is fine, do as you like. Although one might argue that you are splitting the community in two. The problem is that you need a communication tool that is appropriate for newbies. And it must be appropriate for power user, or you'll have trouble to get enough answers for the questions your newbies ask. Now, if the FIC decides that they want to have forums (and notice that typically mobile manufacturers don't have forums on their site), they will have the additional option of paying the answerers. But currently, you are advocating an end user newbie communication tool, for a device that can (perhaps?) dial a number without hacking a Unix command line. Furthermore as an example for a pure newbie forum that runs as a mailing list, and runs well, take a look at the Python Tutor mailing list, where we regular deal with computer illiterates that have problems even writing a simple mail. You should consider the fact that, in a pure FOSS market, you have newbies that post questions and advanced users that answer questions. Now, it's easy to find newbies, it's way harder to get professionals to donate their time to answer questions. Using a tool that is NOT good at heavy communication to make it more hassle for these advanced users is not a good strategy. Now, if you have a company that is willing to pay employees to answer these questions, you have at least a partial solution. Although it's still a solution for support, and not for a community, but who cares ;) Andreas Jonathon Suggs wrote: Andreas Kostyrka wrote: My mail client sorts and deletes mailing posts for me :) snip at least if you use a sensible client. AGAIN, you are forgetting who we are targeting with a forum! They will be using Outlook. They will NOT be setting up filters or doing anything other than hitting Send/Receive! The theoretical aspects are that Email is way more organized and standardized than the average html page. We are not talking about average html pages We are talking about setting up forum software that will correctly format html pages for the task that they would be providing. You are directly embodying the persona that characterizes the people that give FOSS a bad rep with average users. You assume them to all be at the same technical level as you. You would just as soon tell them to change their MUA and setup filters as opposed to actually help them with their problems. This type of arrogance will be what (potentially) keeps people from using OpenMoko/FOSS despite its technical merits. I'll try to keep this civil, but PLEASE stop thinking only about yourself. What is being proposed is not to kill the mailing list. What we ARE proposing if you (collective you) would listen is to supplement the mailing list with a forum. WHY ARE YOU RESISTING -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGplzSHJdudm4KnO0RAq0RAJ9fw3mbY5G10U1Intwo2zNem6qWNQCdGPjd k8mf7B9dZGWK0lBL2iVqmM4= =ctRy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List Config
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Your description could be about two things: 1.) gmail.com is acting up with the openmoko mailing lists, and has been for some time now. gmail mails end up being sent multiple times. That's something that google needs to fix, not much openmoko can do about that. 2.) When people reply to your mail on the mailing list, one of the traditional ways to do so has been to use Reply All. The rationale for this tradition is so that you get a second copy of the mail directly, which depending upon the mailing list might be hours faster than the mailing list. Another benefit of this setup is that if you sort automatically mailing list mails into folders, you still get a copy that gets delivered into your INBOX directly. Neither of these problems can be solved by setting a Reply-To header. Andreas Donald Organ wrote: Can someone fix the lists so that replies go to the list not the sender? I seem to be getting at least two of every email that is going out to the lists. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpl27HJdudm4KnO0RAgpYAJ9r+FS6zeU7W6uWhTVvV/39QHf+qQCgzUzD JwvOhQTU/W4qXC9u87bNpTc= =ZImA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Duplicate message troubleshooting
Messages to the list are being duplicated again. Some of the messages are from Gmail, but not all (e.g. some are from kostyrka.org and cnlohr.com). I can try to help debug the problem from the Gmail end if an admin on the list machine can send me verbose SMTP logs; please see below for details. Harald or Sean, can one of you send detailed logs? Anyone else? Some Gmail message IDs with duplicated messages today: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Marco - Forwarded message from Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:36:57 -0700 To: Wolfgang S. Rupprecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: gmail.com problems and this list Hi everyone, Short version: It seems the duplicated messages are not just a Gmail problem: mails are also being duplicated from starband.net and possibly others as well, so it seems the problem is likely something on the openmoko side that only happens to cause duplicates with some sending domains and not others. I'ts also not consistent; some messages from Gmail and starband.net are duplicated while others aren't. I've checked with the Gmail team, and the duplicated messages from Gmail are happening because Gmail doesn't receive the SMTP OK from the openmoko list server, so it retransmits because it thinks the messages don't get delivered. To debug further, an admin on the list machine needs to enable verbose SMTP logging if it's not already enabled and provide information about if/when the OK is sent. Here are some example message IDs for which the logs would be useful: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] If verbose logging isn't already enabled, however, enabling it and then sending logs for any future duplicated messages would work too. Detailed version: On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 11:14:03PM -0700, thus spake Wolfgang S. Rupprecht: At least one of the opemoko machines at 88.198.124.203 opens an smtp connection back to the sending domain to verify the sender address of any incoming message. The smtp-back machine has messed up DNS. The claimed rDNS for that IP is openmoko.org but the forward DNS check for that openmoko.org doesn't list 88.198.124.203 as a valid address. If the sending machine is checking for spammers claiming a bunk DNS name will reject 88.198.124.203's SMTP verify. The opemmoko machine will then interpret that failed smtp verify attempt as the verified address not existing and will decline the initial incoming transfer. Even ignoring the messed-up DNS for the moment, doing an SMTP callback is not a good way to check existence of an email account. For one thing, whenever a spammer spoofs a From address in an innocent domain, that domain can get bombarded with callbacks. For another thing, spammers sometimes use RCPT commands themselves to check existence of email addresses, so ISPs are likely to consider many such requests to be abusive behavior. In the case of a large ISP (such as Gmail), if a lot of email is sent to a destination that does callbacks, the frequency of callbacks can trigger abuse prevention measures. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for more drawbacks. (In particular, note: If a server receives a lot of spam, it will do a lot of callbacks and if those addresses are invalid, the server will look very similar to a spammer who is doing a dictionary attack to harvest addresses. This in turn might get the server blacklisted elsewhere.) For these reasons, Gmail strongly recommends avoiding callbacks and instead checking SPF records (Sender Policy Framework, provided via DNS) to verify that the mail is indeed coming from Google (i.e. the SMTP connection is coming from an IP authorized to send email on behalf of Google). However, in this case it does not seem that the problem was caused by the callbacks. The openmoko server accepted the mail (which it wouldn't do if the callback failed to verify the sender) and the DATA command was sent, but Gmail never received the next SMTP OK acknowledgment before timing out. So one of four things was happening: 1) openmoko never sent the OK -- problem on openmoko end 2) openmoko waited too long before sending the OK and SMTP timed out -- seems to indicate problem on the openmoko end 3) the OK was lost in transit -- network difficulties, neither side at fault 4) the OK was received by Gmail -- problem at the Gmail end Since at least one other domain is showing the same behavior, it seems 1 or 2 is most likely, but we can't say for sure without more information. One interesting fact is that the openmoko server started sending mail back to Gmail recipients (after list expansion) before Gmail received the SMTP OK. Perhaps this means the list server waits until after list expansion to send the OK? That could cause it to time out pretty easily. It would help diagnosis if someone on the list machine could
Unofficial Forum Details...
Hello Everyone, I have set up the Official Unofficial OpenMoko forum on one of my websites. I will continue to modify the forums as need be. All who would like to utilize the forums are welcome! Temporary Link, awaiting DNS resolution: http://www.makeopensource.com/phpBB3/ Official Link: http://forums.makeopensource.com Please make any recommendations to the layout of the forum to this thread. Anyone that would like to help me administer or moderate the forums, please reply! Thanks! Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathon Suggs wrote: Well, I've said it before and I will say it again. We are not wanting to kill the mailing lists!!! We are wanting to supplement the mailing list with a forum. I cannot see ANY reason why this would be a bad thing. Well, it splits the community into two subcommunities. The number of users that will bother to use both forms of communication will probably be small. Additionally there is currently no need for customer-level communications at the moment. What will you answer? Considering the fact that many features are still not completely stable, and many features are completely missing. So what can you answer truthfully to some troll that wants to know if the phone will support syncing with Outlook 97? Will it support push mail? Is it better than the iPhone? Bluntly speaking, creating an enduser support forum is something that is the job of FIC, isn't it? Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpl+gHJdudm4KnO0RAsi6AJ9cW/IZjOr9ebtAYqU55rGVgnq+DACgzzHy AVykKSw5nm6WUfVb5jQpeso= =BUto -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate message troubleshooting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ok, putting on my Postmaster hat, could you please provide Message Ids and headers for messages from heaven.kostyrka.org that were sent duplicate? Please use private mail. Andreas Marco Barreno wrote: Messages to the list are being duplicated again. Some of the messages are from Gmail, but not all (e.g. some are from kostyrka.org and cnlohr.com). I can try to help debug the problem from the Gmail end if an admin on the list machine can send me verbose SMTP logs; please see below for details. Harald or Sean, can one of you send detailed logs? Anyone else? Some Gmail message IDs with duplicated messages today: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Marco - Forwarded message from Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:36:57 -0700 To: Wolfgang S. Rupprecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: gmail.com problems and this list Hi everyone, Short version: It seems the duplicated messages are not just a Gmail problem: mails are also being duplicated from starband.net and possibly others as well, so it seems the problem is likely something on the openmoko side that only happens to cause duplicates with some sending domains and not others. I'ts also not consistent; some messages from Gmail and starband.net are duplicated while others aren't. I've checked with the Gmail team, and the duplicated messages from Gmail are happening because Gmail doesn't receive the SMTP OK from the openmoko list server, so it retransmits because it thinks the messages don't get delivered. To debug further, an admin on the list machine needs to enable verbose SMTP logging if it's not already enabled and provide information about if/when the OK is sent. Here are some example message IDs for which the logs would be useful: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] If verbose logging isn't already enabled, however, enabling it and then sending logs for any future duplicated messages would work too. Detailed version: On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 11:14:03PM -0700, thus spake Wolfgang S. Rupprecht: At least one of the opemoko machines at 88.198.124.203 opens an smtp connection back to the sending domain to verify the sender address of any incoming message. The smtp-back machine has messed up DNS. The claimed rDNS for that IP is openmoko.org but the forward DNS check for that openmoko.org doesn't list 88.198.124.203 as a valid address. If the sending machine is checking for spammers claiming a bunk DNS name will reject 88.198.124.203's SMTP verify. The opemmoko machine will then interpret that failed smtp verify attempt as the verified address not existing and will decline the initial incoming transfer. Even ignoring the messed-up DNS for the moment, doing an SMTP callback is not a good way to check existence of an email account. For one thing, whenever a spammer spoofs a From address in an innocent domain, that domain can get bombarded with callbacks. For another thing, spammers sometimes use RCPT commands themselves to check existence of email addresses, so ISPs are likely to consider many such requests to be abusive behavior. In the case of a large ISP (such as Gmail), if a lot of email is sent to a destination that does callbacks, the frequency of callbacks can trigger abuse prevention measures. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for more drawbacks. (In particular, note: If a server receives a lot of spam, it will do a lot of callbacks and if those addresses are invalid, the server will look very similar to a spammer who is doing a dictionary attack to harvest addresses. This in turn might get the server blacklisted elsewhere.) For these reasons, Gmail strongly recommends avoiding callbacks and instead checking SPF records (Sender Policy Framework, provided via DNS) to verify that the mail is indeed coming from Google (i.e. the SMTP connection is coming from an IP authorized to send email on behalf of Google). However, in this case it does not seem that the problem was caused by the callbacks. The openmoko server accepted the mail (which it wouldn't do if the callback failed to verify the sender) and the DATA command was sent, but Gmail never received the next SMTP OK acknowledgment before timing out. So one of four things was happening: 1) openmoko never sent the OK -- problem on openmoko end 2) openmoko waited too long before sending the OK and SMTP timed out -- seems to indicate problem on the openmoko end 3) the OK was lost in transit -- network difficulties, neither side at fault 4) the OK was received by Gmail -- problem at the Gmail end Since at least one other domain is showing the same behavior, it seems 1 or 2 is most likely, but we can't say for sure without more information. One
RE: OK, the forum is coming..
According to the wiki there's about 2300 phone orders and the number increases every day. There's some 75-100 people that have posted on the wiki in the P1 owners category. Given, not every developer has contributed to the P1 owners page so there's probably about 300 people or so that follow the wiki and haven't posted in it. Leaving about 2000 orders to people that don't follow the wiki and are probably not interested in developing. If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc. That's a pretty large amount of people that are going to want help building openmoko and flashing it to the phone. I think a forum is a good idea for now if anytime. If we can show that there is a great support base available for the phone this early on we can draw a much larger fan base later on. Just my 2 cents Richard Reichenbacher -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Kostyrka Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:23 PM To: Jonathon Suggs Cc: Jacques Poulin; community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming.. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathon Suggs wrote: Well, I've said it before and I will say it again. We are not wanting to kill the mailing lists!!! We are wanting to supplement the mailing list with a forum. I cannot see ANY reason why this would be a bad thing. Well, it splits the community into two subcommunities. The number of users that will bother to use both forms of communication will probably be small. Additionally there is currently no need for customer-level communications at the moment. What will you answer? Considering the fact that many features are still not completely stable, and many features are completely missing. So what can you answer truthfully to some troll that wants to know if the phone will support syncing with Outlook 97? Will it support push mail? Is it better than the iPhone? Bluntly speaking, creating an enduser support forum is something that is the job of FIC, isn't it? Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpl+gHJdudm4KnO0RAsi6AJ9cW/IZjOr9ebtAYqU55rGVgnq+DACgzzHy AVykKSw5nm6WUfVb5jQpeso= =BUto -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial Forum Details...
Kyle, This is probably a crazy idea that if I think long enough about I'd realize won't work. But, instead, I'll just put it out there :) It seems easy enough for the forum and list to connect in one direction, on a user-by-user basis. I assume your forum will have the ability to email registered users with new posts, probably on a per-forum basis. So, developers sticking to the lists could register at the forum, and just have everything emailed to them. However, then it falls apart...unless.. Would it be possible to have the forum itself (or some bot on a server) subscribe to the mailing list? When a message comes into the forum, try to match up the subject line to place the message into the right topic thread. If none exists, place it in a forum called something like From the List. Further, replies in the From the List forum would always be emailed out to the list. This would integrate the forum and lists together pretty well I think. Like I said, probably a crazy idea. --Steve On 7/24/07, Kyle Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I have set up the Official Unofficial OpenMoko forum on one of my websites. I will continue to modify the forums as need be. All who would like to utilize the forums are welcome! Temporary Link, awaiting DNS resolution: http://www.makeopensource.com/phpBB3/ Official Link: http://forums.makeopensource.com Please make any recommendations to the layout of the forum to this thread. Anyone that would like to help me administer or moderate the forums, please reply! Thanks! Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Sorry, man, the ante is four cents. :) So much for a tidy email list of just serious, seasoned, developers. Heh. That sound you hear is one lip gloating On 7/24/07, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to the wiki there's about 2300 phone orders and the number increases every day. There's some 75-100 people that have posted on the wiki in the P1 owners category. Given, not every developer has contributed to the P1 owners page so there's probably about 300 people or so that follow the wiki and haven't posted in it. Leaving about 2000 orders to people that don't follow the wiki and are probably not interested in developing. If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc. That's a pretty large amount of people that are going to want help building openmoko and flashing it to the phone. I think a forum is a good idea for now if anytime. If we can show that there is a great support base available for the phone this early on we can draw a much larger fan base later on. Just my 2 cents Richard Reichenbacher -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Kostyrka Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:23 PM To: Jonathon Suggs Cc: Jacques Poulin; community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming.. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathon Suggs wrote: Well, I've said it before and I will say it again. We are not wanting to kill the mailing lists!!! We are wanting to supplement the mailing list with a forum. I cannot see ANY reason why this would be a bad thing. Well, it splits the community into two subcommunities. The number of users that will bother to use both forms of communication will probably be small. Additionally there is currently no need for customer-level communications at the moment. What will you answer? Considering the fact that many features are still not completely stable, and many features are completely missing. So what can you answer truthfully to some troll that wants to know if the phone will support syncing with Outlook 97? Will it support push mail? Is it better than the iPhone? Bluntly speaking, creating an enduser support forum is something that is the job of FIC, isn't it? Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGpl+gHJdudm4KnO0RAsi6AJ9cW/IZjOr9ebtAYqU55rGVgnq+DACgzzHy AVykKSw5nm6WUfVb5jQpeso= =BUto -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
On Jul 24, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Andy Powell wrote: On Tuesday 24 July 2007 09:10, William Lai wrote: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. When you say 'promptly' what do you mean? Can you give us a timescale or the actual shipping? We`ll start to ship US domestic orders today (7/24), international shipping please wait another day. We`re just making sure we have all of the required documents in place. -Will ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GUI idea
I have an idea I'd like to mock up with someone who has some GUI coding know how. I could do a quick demo in flash, but I'm thinking it would probably be as quick to mock up for the actual Neo by someone who knows their way around. I figure less then an hours work, all told. It's something kind of unique, and not difficult code wise, and might help the usability. Might be better hashed out off list, and then have a demo for the list. Any takers? Gerald. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/24/07, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc. Flaw in your logic: One has to post to the wiki to follow it. I'm very sure you can follow a wiki and never post to it. So, your stats conclusions are on shaky ground. That's a pretty large amount of people that are going to want help building openmoko and flashing it to the phone. I think a forum is a good idea for now if anytime. If we can show that there is a great support base available for the phone this early on we can draw a much larger fan base later on. I think the idea is to get info out, in an easy to maintain way to as many people as possible. I despise forums. Some products require you to use them, so I have to. There are others that feel this same way. Some despise mailing lists. C'est la vie. I think the best thing would be to work on a way in which both groups could be happy. A gateway between the mailing list and a forum might be the best of both worlds. Then again, maybe not. But it's something that we should be talking about, rather then having a religious debate about forum vs. list. Comments? Gerald. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
yeah, but they seem to be in the minority (my cingular SE phone works properly too) I'm thinking of going a step beyond this: not requiring you to whip out your computer at all. My Sony Ericsson has a program called Music DJ that I think I've played with all of twice, but it will let you mix loops to create your own ringtone... what if we go a step farther, and create a composition program with social aspects... allow you to record or create a ringtone on the device itself. The other part that makes this really cool is then uploading this to a sharing site... yes, I know, there's the chance that you record some song off the radio, so we need something to deal with DMCA (it seems a message that says don't freaking put copyrighted stuff here is no longer sufficient). Again, I'm having nightmares of people turning recordings of their kids screaming and worse into ringtones... but I think this could be one of the apps that really turns on the mass market On 7/24/07, Steven Milburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cingular/ATT doesn't seem to have any problem with letting users make their own ring tones. On my Samsung SGH-A707, I can select any MP3 file under 1MB as a ring tone. I have a couple on my phone that I edited with GarageBand to select a small enough clip and then downloaded to my phone. --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.orghttps://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
Just checked, and my SCH-A707 lets you record something with the microphone and set it as a ring tone. So, at least Samsung thinks the idea has merit! As far as the sharing site thing, I don't think I see why this would be tied to any particular phone hardware or OpenMoko. You could set up a site today that let people share small .mmf and mp3 files. Since the Neo will have web browsing and downloading someday, it could pluck ring tones off any number of sharing sites. H, crazy idea coming to mind.I'm sure my wife (and millions of teens for that matter) would love if the callerID pic that displays when the phone rings could be sync'd with your friend's MySpace or Facebook profile. Personally, I'd hate it. I know she'd love it though. --Steve On 7/24/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, but they seem to be in the minority (my cingular SE phone works properly too) I'm thinking of going a step beyond this: not requiring you to whip out your computer at all. My Sony Ericsson has a program called Music DJ that I think I've played with all of twice, but it will let you mix loops to create your own ringtone... what if we go a step farther, and create a composition program with social aspects... allow you to record or create a ringtone on the device itself. The other part that makes this really cool is then uploading this to a sharing site... yes, I know, there's the chance that you record some song off the radio, so we need something to deal with DMCA (it seems a message that says don't freaking put copyrighted stuff here is no longer sufficient). Again, I'm having nightmares of people turning recordings of their kids screaming and worse into ringtones... but I think this could be one of the apps that really turns on the mass market On 7/24/07, Steven Milburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cingular/ATT doesn't seem to have any problem with letting users make their own ring tones. On my Samsung SGH-A707, I can select any MP3 file under 1MB as a ring tone. I have a couple on my phone that I edited with GarageBand to select a small enough clip and then downloaded to my phone. --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.orghttps://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
I would love to get involved in this project, only problem is I haven't used C since college. I know PHP, .NET, ColdFusion, and some other languages so it should be too hard for me to pick it up. Let me know if your interested in getting this going. Is it possible to develop for the phone without one?? On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 14:44 -0700, Jeff Andros wrote: yeah, but they seem to be in the minority (my cingular SE phone works properly too) I'm thinking of going a step beyond this: not requiring you to whip out your computer at all. My Sony Ericsson has a program called Music DJ that I think I've played with all of twice, but it will let you mix loops to create your own ringtone... what if we go a step farther, and create a composition program with social aspects... allow you to record or create a ringtone on the device itself. The other part that makes this really cool is then uploading this to a sharing site... yes, I know, there's the chance that you record some song off the radio, so we need something to deal with DMCA (it seems a message that says don't freaking put copyrighted stuff here is no longer sufficient). Again, I'm having nightmares of people turning recordings of their kids screaming and worse into ringtones... but I think this could be one of the apps that really turns on the mass market On 7/24/07, Steven Milburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cingular/ATT doesn't seem to have any problem with letting users make their own ring tones. On my Samsung SGH-A707, I can select any MP3 file under 1MB as a ring tone. I have a couple on my phone that I edited with GarageBand to select a small enough clip and then downloaded to my phone. --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
A gateway would not work. Forums and mailing lists are two quite different means of communication. In a forum you can edit things, move them, delete them. Also, discussing in a flat view doesn't only look different, it works differently. Also, if you connect both, you get all the trash that's ok in a forum because you can skip it sent to everyone in the mailing list. So, you need to have a forum that is set up to work like a mailing list. No editing, threaded discussion. Don't have a flat format. I don't see what's wrong with that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Duplicate message troubleshooting
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 10:42:01PM +0200, thus spake Andreas Kostyrka: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ok, putting on my Postmaster hat, could you please provide Message Ids and headers for messages from heaven.kostyrka.org that were sent duplicate? Please use private mail. Andreas I must apologize--I got some notes mixed up and listed the wrong domain. Actually I don't have a record of emails being duplicated from kostyrka.org. I have seen duplicate messages from cnlohr.com (Message ID [EMAIL PROTECTED]) and axialys.net (Message ID [EMAIL PROTECTED]), however. Again, sorry for my confusion. Marco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial Forum Details...
Hello Again, The forum is now in a usable condition. Please register and start posting! If there are any concerns with the layout, please contact me and I will try to accommodate... -Kyle On 7/24/07, Kyle Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I have set up the Official Unofficial OpenMoko forum on one of my websites. I will continue to modify the forums as need be. All who would like to utilize the forums are welcome! Temporary Link, awaiting DNS resolution: http://www.makeopensource.com/phpBB3/ Official Link: http://forums.makeopensource.com Please make any recommendations to the layout of the forum to this thread. Anyone that would like to help me administer or moderate the forums, please reply! Thanks! Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial Forum Details...
How would you feel about installing OpenID support? http://openid.phpbb.cc/ Kyle Bassett wrote: Hello Again, The forum is now in a usable condition. Please register and start posting! If there are any concerns with the layout, please contact me and I will try to accommodate... -Kyle On 7/24/07, *Kyle Bassett* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I have set up the Official Unofficial OpenMoko forum on one of my websites. I will continue to modify the forums as need be. All who would like to utilize the forums are welcome! Temporary Link, awaiting DNS resolution: http://www.makeopensource.com/phpBB3/ Official Link: http://forums.makeopensource.com Please make any recommendations to the layout of the forum to this thread. Anyone that would like to help me administer or moderate the forums, please reply! Thanks! Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 19:19 +0200, Andreas Kostyrka wrote: No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long time email users. What, that they never actually read what anyone writes, but just skim it looking for something that they can flame about? Come on guys, read for comprehension, not for opportunities to flame. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 12:33 -0500, Hans L wrote: Are you saying that if you don't want your email address harvested by spammers, then you should not participate in discussions about openmoko at all? Keeping your email address private IS a valid reason for the use of forums. No, I'm saying that building your email security using obscurity doesn't work. There is no way to keep your email address private, any more than there's a way to keep your home address private. You might succeed for a matter of months, or even a year or so if you're really diligent, or even longer if you never actually send any email, but eventually someone who has you in their address book is going to get a virus, and then all your efforts are for naught. So whether you use a forum or a mailing list shouldn't be predicated on your desire to implement security through obscurity. It should be predicated on some other reasoning. That's all I'm saying. I think we need both, and as I said in my email message, I look forward to all of the chatter being siphoned off into the forum. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: app idea
The SE phones allowed creation of ring tones on the phone or with a PC application. Cingular allowed downloading to the phone via BlueTooth. My current carrier, t-mobile, doesn't allow things to be downloaded to the phone. Creating ringtones should be pretty easy. I'm at work right now, so I can't check it out, but I think tuxguitar will save things as midi or wav files. tuxguitar is good for creating loops, and getting the right file format should not be hard. On 7/24/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, but they seem to be in the minority (my cingular SE phone works properly too) I'm thinking of going a step beyond this: not requiring you to whip out your computer at all. My Sony Ericsson has a program called Music DJ that I think I've played with all of twice, but it will let you mix loops to create your own ringtone... what if we go a step farther, and create a composition program with social aspects... allow you to record or create a ringtone on the device itself. The other part that makes this really cool is then uploading this to a sharing site... yes, I know, there's the chance that you record some song off the radio, so we need something to deal with DMCA (it seems a message that says don't freaking put copyrighted stuff here is no longer sufficient). Again, I'm having nightmares of people turning recordings of their kids screaming and worse into ringtones... but I think this could be one of the apps that really turns on the mass market ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial Forum Details...
I have no problem with it, once they support phpBB 3.x -Kyle On 7/24/07, Brad Pitcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would you feel about installing OpenID support? http://openid.phpbb.cc/ Kyle Bassett wrote: Hello Again, The forum is now in a usable condition. Please register and start posting! If there are any concerns with the layout, please contact me and I will try to accommodate... -Kyle On 7/24/07, *Kyle Bassett* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I have set up the Official Unofficial OpenMoko forum on one of my websites. I will continue to modify the forums as need be. All who would like to utilize the forums are welcome! Temporary Link, awaiting DNS resolution: http://www.makeopensource.com/phpBB3/ Official Link: http://forums.makeopensource.com Please make any recommendations to the layout of the forum to this thread. Anyone that would like to help me administer or moderate the forums, please reply! Thanks! Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Myk Melez writes: Update: I just received a payment received message. It says they'll send out my order ASAP and will notify me again when it's been sent. Sounds like it'll go out too late for me to receive it before heading off for OSCON tomorrow afternoon, unfortunately. That would be my guess -- I got my payment received notice during the weekend, and haven't gotten a ship notice yet. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [via Slashdot] yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards
Giles Jones writes: Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Interesting blog post when you consider the custom cases possibility: http://trevors-trinkets.blogspot.com/2007/07/five-finger-keyboards.html Always better sticking with the convention 0-9 abc def type keyboard. Anything unconventional will split people 50:50, half will love it (mostly geeks), half won't. Besides, typing numbers by holding down multiple keys just seems silly. KISS = Keep it simple stupid. I'd much sooner see OLED buttons where the text can change to suit the task. There's a *lot* of prior art in chord keyboards (as they're normally called), and they work really well in a lot of environments. I suspect I might like five nicely-spaced buttons so I could do one-handed typing on the phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:PRESS: Hands-on with the OpenMoko Phone
Jason Elwell writes: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/hands-on-with-t.html Thanks for posting that -- certainly whetted my appetite. It's also interesting that the author of the article didn't quite understand which decisions have been made, and which are pending: he didn't seem to understand that next version *won't* have a camera (incidentally, I'm one of the people who would really like to see a camera added, but I've also got several friends who work in no-camera environments, who find trying to buy a cell phone nearly impossible these days). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [via Slashdot] yet another alternative text input subject : Five finger keyboards
Giles Jones writes: Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I'd much sooner see OLED buttons where the text can change to suit the task. Those are quite expensive per. True, we're not talking about this model or the next. I would sooner see a limited number of adaptable keys than 5 fairly fixed ones. A key can be infinitely adaptable without OLED. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
