Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 4, 2010, at 7:51 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: If all too many of us do not feel as I indicated, then how come we, the people, continue to allow ourselves to be ripped off, decade after decade after decade? Because most of us lead busy lives and we can't hang onto an issue with the tenacity of a corporation. Corporations can hire people to lobby full time. We have to go to work, take care of the kids, go shopping, do the laundry, etc. etc. Thus it is not an even battle. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:49 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: We did find out something to improve the over the air signal--a cheap $29 DVD recorder with an amazing tuner from Big Lots. Better than the two converter boxes we tried, plus DVD! With a cheap home-made antenna, http://www.tvantennaplans.com/, pictures are good to very good, around 20 stations, maybe more--and remember, we live even more nowhere than you do in NJ. Good luck with WYBE [ch.35?]. Somehow it only comes in when the Korean programs are on, then it disappears. It was a long and arduous search that I had to undertake in order to find a digital TV that had a highly sensitive tuner. I rely upon over-the-air TV, and there is virtually no information whatsoever from any TV maker regarding tuner specifications. I really do not know how a consumer can differentiate one tuner from another in a technical sense since there does not appear to be any standards that are set for TV tuners. One can evaluate FM radio tuners by way of various accepted measurements, but that is not the case with TV tuners. The only way I could find a TV that met my expectations out here in the boonies was to read reviews. Indeed, the TV I finally bought was the one and only one in which any reviewer that I read even mentioned the tuner section. In two such reviews, the reviewers simply stated that the tuner in that particular TV clearly outperformed all the others they had tested. Such a statement tells me that tuners in most TVs are but a legally required afterthought these days, and tuner performance is regarded by most makers as a superfluous bother given the popularity and widespread use of cable and satellite reception both of which bypass the built-in tuner. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:01 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Because most of us lead busy lives and we can't hang onto an issue with the tenacity of a corporation. Corporations can hire people to lobby full time. We have to go to work, take care of the kids, go shopping, do the laundry, etc. etc. Thus it is not an even battle. You will get no argument from me on that score. However, we can still vote, for whatever that is worth. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
phartz...@gmail.com escribió: It was a long and arduous search that I had to undertake in order to find a digital TV that had a highly sensitive tuner. I rely upon over-the-air TV, and there is virtually no information whatsoever from any TV maker regarding tuner specifications. I really do not know how a consumer can differentiate one tuner from another in a technical sense since there does not appear to be any standards that are set for TV tuners... We read lots of reviews and comments, also visited what's left of the electronics stores within about 60 miles. I spent a lot of time adjusting and readjusting the in-store settings to see how 'normal' settings look. I took a couple of DVDs--one movie, another with movies compressed for iPod--to see how they looked. We even carried a home made antenna to a few stores. It was pretty much the same as when I was looking for a portable shortwave. My test was whether I could get distant stations like BBC or Havana or Berlin or Beijing inside the store. With TVs, getting any decent signal inside a store without using the cable is a sign that things will be much better at home. We were looking for a good 24 monitor, and ended up with a very good TV instead--AOC 24 HDTV 1080p for under $200 at Staples. What are the numbers to look for in a good TV? It's easy to figure out high def, brightness, contrast, colors, connections--but tuners? I dunno. Seems like a secret or not so secret plan to get you to pay $$$ for cable/FIOS/satellite. The antenna is in the attic. Our roof is scary, steep, high. Attic is high enough for signal. There must be some listings for signal strength and sensitivity like SNR and RF. When you get home you can do tests, but they should be in the literature for the TV before you spend your money. Are they? The specs on our TV say nothing about tuner sensitivity, http://us.aoc.com/support/documents/pdf/documents/106, except that it's a Clear QAM tuner. Steve, did you find out additional useful tuner specs? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 5, 2010, at 8:17 PM, David D Odell wrote: Why? It's not like they have to keep refilling the line more often. Hey! Be careful. With Verizon cutting back on new construction Eric will soon be depending on management thinking annual refills are essential. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:05 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Steve, did you find out additional useful tuner specs? Absolutely none. Zero. Nada. Zilch. There are none readily available for the end user. A tuner is the unwanted stepchild of the television industry, required to be in a television for it to be called a television, otherwise it is just a monitor. Considering the high cost of televisions, I cannot explain why such specifications are not available other than the fact that almost no one gives it a thought. In my numerous perusals of television reviews, it was revealed that some major brands apparently have pretty crappy tuners. Television is a visual medium, and in the digital world, for the most part, you will either have a picture or not have a picture be it over-the-air or by way of cable or satellite or some other source. Since televisions are pretty much solely judged based upon how good the picture looks, not being able to receive a picture really does not really enter onto the equation. It is simply assumed that a viewer will get a picture, and even if it is but one channel, all judgements will be based upon that one picture that it is able to display, thus all other aspects of performance are moot. I realize that this sounds pretty ridiculous, but it appears to be the way it is. I somewhat liken this to how hung up people get about the speed at which a computer can operate, as though that single factor is all that matters. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
More than partially plausible. The average rate doesn't jibe with my own experience in places such as Poland, for example, which has terrific broadband speed in urban areas, at least as fast as urban experience in the Czech Republic and Slovakia. And what to think of Finland, the most connected country on earth, having a slower rate that GB? Or Germany's rate as slower than that of the US? Average is only the partial story... --- On Sat, 4/3/10, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 1:32 PM On Apr 3, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: Technically Canada has a low population density when you divide its population by the size of the country. However, it is highly concentrated. Over three quarters of its population lives within 90 miles of the US border. Also see this map of the distribution. Since the map shows average speed, that would mean that those in your 90 mile band must have one heck of a high rate to make up for all those who live in the rest of Canada. Does this seem plausible? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 3, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Stewart Marshall wrote: There are a number of smaller towns in this area, 10K population or so that have varying degrees of service. Most of them have VOIP available. But isn't your area somewhere in the middle of the Okefenokee Swamp? I don't think Eric and his crews want to be fighting off crocodiles just so you can stream Alice in Wonderland. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 10:17 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Apr 3, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Stewart Marshall wrote: There are a number of smaller towns in this area, 10K population or so that have varying degrees of service. Most of them have VOIP available. But isn't your area somewhere in the middle of the Okefenokee Swamp? I don't think Eric and his crews want to be fighting off crocodiles just so you can stream Alice in Wonderland. Pretty sure it would be Alligators in Okefenokee Swamp. Crocs in the US don't range much farther north than Miami. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 3, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Stewart Marshall wrote: Less competition more regulation! Today's Morning Edition had a report on broadband regulation... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125554738 Amid all the brouhaha about neocons battling to get the government off our backs and allowing corporations a free run to empty our pockets there was an interesting nugget of information... The USA lead the world in Internet connectivity until the Bushies decided that the Telecommunications Act of 1934 did not apply to Internet services. Ever since that fateful decision service quality in the USA has fallen like a rock. The corporations invented the idea that bandwidth was a scarce resource to be sold to the public drop by drop. They started to throttle services like BitTorrent and block services like Skype. Suddenly the the wide open cables lost their ability to move our data unimpeded unless they got greased by the payment of extra tolls. You bet we need more regulation. And more competition. The two do not oppose one another. When the oligarchs have us by the throats the only way to get competition is via regulation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
25 Mbps is $69 per month, with 125 Gb of download included and a surcharge per Gb after that. 50 Mbps is, I think $99 per month, with a limit of $175 G downloaded and a (smaller) per Gb surcharge afer that. In both cases the surcharges for extra downloads are capped to a maximum of $50, so you could literally have truly unlimited for a max $119 and $149 per month respectively. A lot of $$$, but the service has been pretty reliable for me, and is blazingly fast for a home service. But cable service here is essentially a monopoly. Michael From: b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 11:44:19 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map Can't speak for others, but I am on an account with Rogers Cable Systems in Ontario that gets me consistently up to 25 Mbps speed. And there is an account type that is one higher than that which tops out at 50. Mind you it doesn't;t come cheap but there it is. How much does Rogers Cable charge or 25 and 50 Mbps service? In Canadian dollars? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 10:47 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: You bet we need more regulation. And more competition. The two do not oppose one another. When the oligarchs have us by the throats the only way to get competition is via regulation. I guess you know that only about half of the public in the United States, and perhaps even less than that, agrees with you. Also, almost all of the corporations and businesses disagree with your assessment as well. Individuals and entities on the other side of the argument will tell you that we already have far too much regulation, that competition is an outmoded concept and that what is needed to best serve the public is to deregulate in an extensive manner. Those corporations would also like to have a whole bunch more tax breaks as well, if you please. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Not even close. Only things you have to fight off are Teapartiers and termites. Stewart At 09:17 AM 4/4/2010, you wrote: On Apr 3, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Stewart Marshall wrote: There are a number of smaller towns in this area, 10K population or so that have varying degrees of service. Most of them have VOIP available. But isn't your area somewhere in the middle of the Okefenokee Swamp? I don't think Eric and his crews want to be fighting off crocodiles just so you can stream Alice in Wonderland. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
WOW! That is so absurdly expensive. The US is failing us. Broadband monopolies better be regulated soon, otherwise we're going to sink lower and lower. In many places you can get 1Mbps for 1 euro. Here it's insanely higher, and not available many places, especially nowhere like here. BUMMER. Does that include any Video, TV, phone? 25 Mbps is $69 per month, with 125 Gb of download included and a surcharge per Gb after that. 50 Mbps is, I think $99 per month, with a limit of $175 G downloaded and a (smaller) per Gb surcharge afer that. In both cases the surcharges for extra downloads are capped to a maximum of $50, so you could literally have truly unlimited for a max $119 and $149 per month respectively. A lot of $$$, but the service has been pretty reliable for me, and is blazingly fast for a home service. But cable service here is essentially a monopoly. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Quoting t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com: The corporations invented the idea that bandwidth was a scarce resource to be sold to the public drop by drop. They started to throttle services like BitTorrent and block services like Skype. Suddenly the the wide open cables lost their ability to move our data unimpeded unless they got greased by the payment of extra tolls. Yeah. If Eric's FiOS is capable of delivering 100Mbs (or whatever their claim is), why do you have to pay extra for higher rates? What's the diff? It's not like they have to come out to my house and install a booster to the line, or come around and install a fatter wire. if they let the unwashed masses *all* have max bandwidth, and their wire isn't able to support it, then they don't *really* have 110Mbs bandwidth, and shouldn't be advertising as such. The wire is either capable of the bandwidth, or it isn't. Seems to me like it's more trouble and expense trying to meter out the service. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 4, 2010, at 6:49 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: In many places you can get 1Mbps for 1 euro. Here it's insanely higher, and not available many places, especially nowhere like here. Just keep repeating the neocon mantra: we are the USA, the best of all possible countries. Love it or leave it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 4, 2010, at 11:44 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I guess you know that only about half of the public in the United States, and perhaps even less than that, agrees with you. Stop reading those Fox News push polls. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 4, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Only things you have to fight off are Teapartiers and termites. What's the difference? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
At least you know how to defend against crocs and skeeters. Stewart At 06:08 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: On Apr 4, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Only things you have to fight off are Teapartiers and termites. What's the difference? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
It mainly is based on expected usage. They expect you to use it more so you pay more for it. My church office uses a 1.5 mps connection. We are not a heavy user and do not rely on a super high speed connection for our work. Now if I were a business that required a high speed connection tog et a loot of work done I would see them charging for a higher speed. Recently the cable company said they could offer a 16mps connection. Now I would pay a high price for that, but instead they increased my 5 mps to an 8 mps for the same price. my biggest frustration is the servers used by many sites from which I can do downloads. They throttle those suckers so that no matter how fast a connection you have it still takes a long time to download stuff. Stewart At 06:07 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: Quoting t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com: The corporations invented the idea that bandwidth was a scarce resource to be sold to the public drop by drop. They started to throttle services like BitTorrent and block services like Skype. Suddenly the the wide open cables lost their ability to move our data unimpeded unless they got greased by the payment of extra tolls. Yeah. If Eric's FiOS is capable of delivering 100Mbs (or whatever their claim is), why do you have to pay extra for higher rates? What's the diff? It's not like they have to come out to my house and install a booster to the line, or come around and install a fatter wire. if they let the unwashed masses *all* have max bandwidth, and their wire isn't able to support it, then they don't *really* have 110Mbs bandwidth, and shouldn't be advertising as such. The wire is either capable of the bandwidth, or it isn't. Seems to me like it's more trouble and expense trying to meter out the service. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:09 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Apr 4, 2010, at 11:44 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: I guess you know that only about half of the public in the United States, and perhaps even less than that, agrees with you. Stop reading those Fox News push polls. If all too many of us do not feel as I indicated, then how come we, the people, continue to allow ourselves to be ripped off, decade after decade after decade? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
I am flummoxed. First they promote the over the air digital TV signal and make you go out and get converters so you don't hafta buy a new TV ...then you find out you only get 2 channels where you live (I have a 30' tower with uhf/vhf antenna 1h road south of Philadelphia ...no mountains here). The converters sit on a shelf. Then you find out cable TV (I was proud never to have subscribed in my life) is expensive, but if you moan they offer a cheap alternative. The 20yr old overhead wire is what they want to use. I was never a customer, and they didn't know it was even there, so I cut it down. At least for my installation money I got a good high speed wire. Then they install using a contractor who blew my fuses and I threw him out. They sent a Comcast guy (looked a little like the guy on the ad) who finished the job. Lucky I have a basement most of the way but he still drilled a hole and stuck a wire outside to get to my home/office. Then he fiddled and fussed to! get miserable DSL speed cable net. I fixed that by getting a splitter that gives more of the signal to the modem and less to the one TV we have. Over the air we received 3 different PBS stations which was great! Now one disappeared (the best one, WYBE). Most of the channels are ads for knives or coins or phone sex. Then there are a half a dozen religious channels; none are my brand. All this for $25 which was for a year and now is up to $37. We get 5 networks and PBS and C-span ...the history channel is fuzzy. So, with fees and taxes we pay $500/year for less than what we had for free Now we are gonna get broadband whether we like it or not. Maybe they could bundle it with health-care. I think people may think I'm impersonating Andy Rooney. -Original Message- From: b_s-wilk [mailto:b1sun...@yahoo.es] Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 11:44 PM Subject: Re: Broadband Speeds Map Can't speak for others, but I am on an account with Rogers Cable Systems in Ontario that gets me consistently up to 25 Mbps speed. And there is an account type that is one higher than that which tops out at 50. Mind you it doesn't;t come cheap but there it is. How much does Rogers Cable charge or 25 and 50 Mbps service? In Canadian dollars? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Quoting Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net: It mainly is based on expected usage. They expect you to use it more so you pay more for it. My church office uses a 1.5 mps connection. We are not a heavy user and do not rely on a super high speed connection for our work. Now if I were a business that required a high speed connection tog et a loot of work done I would see them charging for a higher speed. Why? It's not like they have to keep refilling the line more often. They don't have to keep an extra supply of Broadband in the back room. If you ordered up a faster connection, what would they have to do? type a few commands into their server allowing you the increased speed. Oh, and send a memo to Accounting to send you a fatter bill. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
I am flummoxed. First they promote the over the air digital TV signal and make you go out and get converters so you don't hafta buy a new TV ...then you find out you only get 2 channels where you live (I have a 30' tower with uhf/vhf antenna 1h road south of Philadelphia ...no mountains here). The converters sit on a shelf... Yup. Consumers be damned. They'll pay whatever sky-high price the broadband companies charge because there's no competition, no regulation, no accountability. Corporate government will sell--not lease--the publicly owned airwaves then make us pay big bucks to buy all new equipment so we can watch the commercial TV that we've been watching for years with our old TVs and tuners. We did find out something to improve the over the air signal--a cheap $29 DVD recorder with an amazing tuner from Big Lots. Better than the two converter boxes we tried, plus DVD! With a cheap home-made antenna, http://www.tvantennaplans.com/, pictures are good to very good, around 20 stations, maybe more--and remember, we live even more nowhere than you do in NJ. Good luck with WYBE [ch.35?]. Somehow it only comes in when the Korean programs are on, then it disappears. Sure would be nice to have affordable high-speed broadband and the cable/satellite/FIOS channels too, without being gouged for it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Less competition more regulation! Stewart At 09:48 AM 4/3/2010, you wrote: For those who say that USA has rotten broadband speeds because we have such low population density, why is Canada ahead of US? http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/03/tech/map.broadband.speeds/index.html The real reason is lack of competition and 8 years of neocon rule resulting in no national broadband policy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
For those who say that USA has rotten broadband speeds because we have such low population density, why is Canada ahead of US? http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/03/tech/map.broadband.speeds/index.html Interesting factoid: Unless I missed someone, South Korea is the fastest in the world and twice as fast as its nearest competitor, Japan. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
South Korea is pretty high tech. I think many of the LCD panels are made there. Stewart At 10:26 AM 4/3/2010, you wrote: For those who say that USA has rotten broadband speeds because we have such low population density, why is Canada ahead of US? http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/03/tech/map.broadband.speeds/index.html Interesting factoid: Unless I missed someone, South Korea is the fastest in the world and twice as fast as its nearest competitor, Japan. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Technically Canada has a low population density when you divide its population by the size of the country. However, it is highly concentrated. Over three quarters of its population lives within 90 miles of the US border. Also see this map of the distribution. http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/10/70010-004-BBFE93FB.gif Canada needs only a 1 dimensional backbone. The US a 2 dimensional network. t.piwowar wrote: For those who say that USA has rotten broadband speeds because we have such low population density, why is Canada ahead of US? http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/03/tech/map.broadband.speeds/index.html The real reason is lack of competition and 8 years of neocon rule resulting in no national broadband policy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.800 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2787 - Release Date: 04/03/10 02:32:00 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 3, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Stewart Marshall wrote: I think many of the LCD panels are made there. But of course, it is LCD that make their broadband so fast. Why did I not think of that? America needs more LSD right away! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 3, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: Technically Canada has a low population density when you divide its population by the size of the country. However, it is highly concentrated. Over three quarters of its population lives within 90 miles of the US border. Also see this map of the distribution. Since the map shows average speed, that would mean that those in your 90 mile band must have one heck of a high rate to make up for all those who live in the rest of Canada. Does this seem plausible? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
The day must end in Y, Tom is blaming the neomicrosofticons again. On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:48 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: The real reason is lack of competition and 8 years of neocon rule resulting in no national broadband policy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Absolutely. My in-laws live 300+ miles north of the border. The services they can get and the cost are far, far different than what is offered in the lower half of the province. The farther you get from the border the more remote and rugged it gets. Leave any of the population dense sites and it is like stepping into another world. Stewart At 12:32 PM 4/3/2010, you wrote: On Apr 3, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: Technically Canada has a low population density when you divide its population by the size of the country. However, it is highly concentrated. Over three quarters of its population lives within 90 miles of the US border. Also see this map of the distribution. Since the map shows average speed, that would mean that those in your 90 mile band must have one heck of a high rate to make up for all those who live in the rest of Canada. Does this seem plausible? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Can't speak for others, but I am on an account with Rogers Cable Systems in Ontario that gets me consistently up to 25 Mbps speed. And there is an account type that is one higher than that which tops out at 50. Mind you it doesn't;t come cheap but there it is. And that it standard cable, not FIOS. Michael From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 1:32:14 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map On Apr 3, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: Technically Canada has a low population density when you divide its population by the size of the country. However, it is highly concentrated. Over three quarters of its population lives within 90 miles of the US border. Also see this map of the distribution. Since the map shows average speed, that would mean that those in your 90 mile band must have one heck of a high rate to make up for all those who live in the rest of Canada. Does this seem plausible? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
We have cable here like that, in most areas too...just not MINE which is what matters. heh On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Michael Wosnick mwosn...@rogers.comwrote: Can't speak for others, but I am on an account with Rogers Cable Systems in Ontario that gets me consistently up to 25 Mbps speed. And there is an account type that is one higher than that which tops out at 50. Mind you it doesn't;t come cheap but there it is. And that it standard cable, not FIOS. Michael From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 1:32:14 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map On Apr 3, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: Technically Canada has a low population density when you divide its population by the size of the country. However, it is highly concentrated. Over three quarters of its population lives within 90 miles of the US border. Also see this map of the distribution. Since the map shows average speed, that would mean that those in your 90 mile band must have one heck of a high rate to make up for all those who live in the rest of Canada. Does this seem plausible? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
First you must live in a Rogers Cable served area. Stewart At 12:51 PM 4/3/2010, you wrote: Can't speak for others, but I am on an account with Rogers Cable Systems in Ontario that gets me consistently up to 25 Mbps speed. And there is an account type that is one higher than that which tops out at 50. Mind you it doesn't;t come cheap but there it is. And that it standard cable, not FIOS. Michael Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
The Amen Corner checking in. Friends on the Lower North Shore of Quebec have neither dependable dial-up, nor hydro. - Original Message - From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map Absolutely. My in-laws live 300+ miles north of the border. The services they can get and the cost are far, far different than what is offered in the lower half of the province. The farther you get from the border the more remote and rugged it gets. Leave any of the population dense sites and it is like stepping into another world. Stewart At 12:32 PM 4/3/2010, you wrote: On Apr 3, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: Technically Canada has a low population density when you divide its population by the size of the country. However, it is highly concentrated. Over three quarters of its population lives within 90 miles of the US border. Also see this map of the distribution. Since the map shows average speed, that would mean that those in your 90 mile band must have one heck of a high rate to make up for all those who live in the rest of Canada. Does this seem plausible? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 3, 2010, at 1:45 PM, mike wrote: The day must end in Y, Tom is blaming the neomicrosofticons again. And the neomicrosofticons continue to insist that our slow connections are just fine and that any news of better service in other countries must be some statistical aberration. The only surprise is that we haven't gotten any quotes from Glenn Beck or Dick Cheney. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
For those who say that USA has rotten broadband speeds because we have such low population density, why is Canada ahead of US? A variety of reasons. The real question is how you define broadband. The speeds on the map are somewhat misleading. The FCC says that anything over 768 kBPS qualifies as broadband. Nothing in that says anything about symmetric or asymmetic (and they are setting the bar too low). Taking the broad, statistically flawed numbers on that map as gospel would lead me to the conclusion that the USA is faster on average than France. That's not true in my experience comparing DC to Paris, for example. The assumption seems to be that the few with true broadband access of 10 mbps to 1 gbps, when averaged with the many with only dialup, equals some kind of magic number. That's small comfort to the many. In my business, we're chasing LAN speed targets. Forget that 768K. It's so last week. Actually, I was surprised the US did so well, even though I know that the map was FUBAR. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
On Apr 3, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote: The speeds on the map are somewhat misleading. The FCC says that anything over 768 kBPS qualifies as broadband. Nothing in that says anything about symmetric or asymmetic (and they are setting the bar too low). So things in the USA are really much worse than the map would indicate. You are not making us feel better. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
In municipalities we are well served by high speed Net access. It is when you get on the fringes of these municipalities and into the suburban areas that there is a stark difference. There are a number of smaller towns in this area, 10K population or so that have varying degrees of service. Most of them have VOIP available. Our municipality does not have any special services, except the cable company is offering speeds of 15mps. (I have achieved this occasionally on my own connection) Much of the problem has to do with the cable systems. Also the age of our copper system (phone lines) is starting to cause problems. I have checked out DSL high speed and the best they can offer is 4mps due to limitations of the infrastructure. Again it is hit and miss. (A lot like ATT's 3g coverage) Stewart At 04:40 PM 4/3/2010, you wrote: On Apr 3, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote: The speeds on the map are somewhat misleading. The FCC says that anything over 768 kBPS qualifies as broadband. Nothing in that says anything about symmetric or asymmetic (and they are setting the bar too low). So things in the USA are really much worse than the map would indicate. You are not making us feel better. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
So things in the USA are really much worse than the map would indicate. You are not making us feel better. Farthest thing from my mind (to not make you feel better). I'm saying that the data used to create that map is insufficiently granular, that's all. I wouldn't be privy to the methodology that was used, but I can tell you for a certain fact that it was likely based on slippery terms. It's great for making a point, but it isn't a true reflection of the current state of affairs as I know them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Can't speak for others, but I am on an account with Rogers Cable Systems in Ontario that gets me consistently up to 25 Mbps speed. And there is an account type that is one higher than that which tops out at 50. Mind you it doesn't;t come cheap but there it is. How much does Rogers Cable charge or 25 and 50 Mbps service? In Canadian dollars? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Broadband Speeds Map
Right now it cold be Canadian or US. They are almost on par. Stewart At 10:44 PM 4/3/2010, you wrote: Can't speak for others, but I am on an account with Rogers Cable Systems in Ontario that gets me consistently up to 25 Mbps speed. And there is an account type that is one higher than that which tops out at 50. Mind you it doesn't;t come cheap but there it is. How much does Rogers Cable charge or 25 and 50 Mbps service? In Canadian dollars? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
At 11:54 PM -0400 10/24/07, Eric S. Sande wrote: [snip] DSL, as it is commonly known, is a transitional product. FiOS is where it's at. The basic strategy is to deliver very high bandwidth over a next generation network at prices that make cable look even more expensive than it already is. But talk is cheap, whiskey costs money. This is an immense capital investment but it is paying off. Nothing here reflects anything but my personal opinion and all of it is public domain. Hmm, is that disclaimer for our benefit, or your employer's? ;-) Excellent summary, by the way. Thanks, Eric. -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds...and packet shaping
This might be of interest here. http://www.telecomcareers.net/SMF/doc_hitechemploy.asp?SMContentIndex=0SMContentSet=0 * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
Oh, I see. Still I cannot understand why DSL is so much faster than T1. My company is looking at getting a T1 line (we cannot get DSL or cable) and it is going to cost many times what we used to pay for DSL in our old location yet it will be less than half as fast. on Tue, 23 Oct 2007, mike wrote: By definition a T1 is only 1.5. If it was more, it wouldn't be a T1. Mike On 10/23/07, Jay Montero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious why in this day age T1 lines max out at 1.5Mbps while DSL and cable speeds are many times faster. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
It may not be as fast, but it will be more steady and reliable in most cases. You pay a lot more, but your bandwidth to the other end of the connection is guaranteed, and if it goes down you will see the telco there in hours, not days. It is a different type of service. Mason Jay Montero wrote: Oh, I see. Still I cannot understand why DSL is so much faster than T1. My company is looking at getting a T1 line (we cannot get DSL or cable) and it is going to cost many times what we used to pay for DSL in our old location yet it will be less than half as fast. on Tue, 23 Oct 2007, mike wrote: By definition a T1 is only 1.5. If it was more, it wouldn't be a T1. Mike On 10/23/07, Jay Montero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious why in this day age T1 lines max out at 1.5Mbps while DSL and cable speeds are many times faster. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
Concur. Most T1 lines come with service level agreements on the order of 99+% uptime guaranteed. Imagine getting that from cable. ;^) On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:36 PM, Mason Miller wrote: It may not be as fast, but it will be more steady and reliable in most cases. You pay a lot more, but your bandwidth to the other end of the connection is guaranteed, and if it goes down you will see the telco there in hours, not days. It is a different type of service. Mason Jay Montero wrote: Oh, I see. Still I cannot understand why DSL is so much faster than T1. My company is looking at getting a T1 line (we cannot get DSL or cable) and it is going to cost many times what we used to pay for DSL in our old location yet it will be less than half as fast. on Tue, 23 Oct 2007, mike wrote: By definition a T1 is only 1.5. If it was more, it wouldn't be a T1. Mike On 10/23/07, Jay Montero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious why in this day age T1 lines max out at 1.5Mbps while DSL and cable speeds are many times faster. * *** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] * *** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * *** ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: ComputerGuys-L- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived ** ** * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
Concur. Most T1 lines come with service level agreements on the order of 99+% uptime guaranteed. Imagine getting that from cable. ;^) That is why DSL is so much better than cable. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
Sometimes. DSL in AZ is worse then the software I use on my sony mp3 player. They have zero support here for anything above 6mbit and Qwest customer service/support is nonexistent. I had cable for almost five years, it might have been down twice, several times they increased my speed with no price increase. They have now gone from 5 to 18 mbit and next year will be at 25, all at little cost increase to customers. Qwest charges 26 minimum up to 45 a month for 1.5mbit service. No email, no usenet. I've called many times to see when they are going to upgrade the lines to some respectable speed, Qwest reps have told me 'never'. They have no plans to do anything in AZ. I had faster speeds 7 years ago then i do now. I'm sure in some places dsl is better, but then again that's not DSL it's fiber, which is not DSL. But the blanket statement dsl is better then cable is not so true. Mike On 10/24/07, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Concur. Most T1 lines come with service level agreements on the order of 99+% uptime guaranteed. Imagine getting that from cable. ;^) That is why DSL is so much better than cable. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
Concur. Most T1 lines come with service level agreements on the order of 99+% uptime guaranteed. Imagine getting that from cable. ;^) That is why DSL is so much better than cable. Just a brief clarification. DSL is a term that's used like Kleenex. A T1, or what is more accurately referred to as a DS1, IS a Digital Subscriber Line. At 1.544 megabits of bandwidth. If it's configured with ISDN signalling it's a PRI, Primary Rate Interface. But it's still generically a DSL line. The DSL that has become common parlance is a digital signalling protocol that rides a T0 line (your basic home phone line or in some cases a naked loop). This can be asynchronus or synchronus depending on the service offering. ADSL or SDSL. To muddy the waters, ISDN BRI (Basic Rate Interface) is also a DSL configuration. In this case, as with DS1 configurations, there is no analog functionality. But as has been mentioned, there is a distance limitation. I can actually push ISDN BRI past the 18K feet limit, but only with a powered repeater or an Adtran package. A repeater needs a power source mid-span, and an Adtran package needs a powered card at the CO and the destination. Neither of these is cost effective. And ISDN BRI is only 128 kbps. A DS1 or a PRI configured DS1 has powered customer equipment (CSU/DSU) at the terminating end. Reach is improved. If I have fiber available I essentially have no line losses but I still need (sometimes expensive) equipment, with power, at the terminating end. I can't make consumer DSL work reliably past 18K feet from the CO. Well, I can out to maybe 20K with a clean loop and a lot of luck. But it won't work well enough to sell. DSL, as it is commonly known, is a transitional product. FiOS is where it's at. The basic strategy is to deliver very high bandwidth over a next generation network at prices that make cable look even more expensive than it already is. But talk is cheap, whiskey costs money. This is an immense capital investment but it is paying off. Nothing here reflects anything but my personal opinion and all of it is public domain. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
Some other differences I think are associated with a T1 line. I believe that T1 lines come standard with a static IP number. As you state below their up speed is as much as their down speed. (Most home DSL's and Cable setups have a high down speed, but a much slower up speed) Also I believe there is no limit placed on a T1 line where limits are regularly placed and enforced on home DSL/Cable lines (ask the AP who just caught Comcast limiting bandwidth on customers) I also think but am not sure how to state it, but the width of the T1 line is much greater than any home DSL/Cable hook up. (What I am trying to say is a T1 line can handle a lot more volume than a home DSL/Cable connection) Stewart At 10:54 PM 10/24/2007, you wrote: Just a brief clarification. DSL is a term that's used like Kleenex. A T1, or what is more accurately referred to as a DS1, IS a Digital Subscriber Line. At 1.544 megabits of bandwidth. If it's configured with ISDN signalling it's a PRI, Primary Rate Interface. But it's still generically a DSL line. The DSL that has become common parlance is a digital signalling protocol that rides a T0 line (your basic home phone line or in some cases a naked loop). This can be asynchronus or synchronus depending on the service offering. ADSL or SDSL. To muddy the waters, ISDN BRI (Basic Rate Interface) is also a DSL configuration. In this case, as with DS1 configurations, there is no analog functionality. But as has been mentioned, there is a distance limitation. I can actually push ISDN BRI past the 18K feet limit, but only with a powered repeater or an Adtran package. A repeater needs a power source mid-span, and an Adtran package needs a powered card at the CO and the destination. Neither of these is cost effective. And ISDN BRI is only 128 kbps. A DS1 or a PRI configured DS1 has powered customer equipment (CSU/DSU) at the terminating end. Reach is improved. If I have fiber available I essentially have no line losses but I still need (sometimes expensive) equipment, with power, at the terminating end. I can't make consumer DSL work reliably past 18K feet from the CO. Well, I can out to maybe 20K with a clean loop and a lot of luck. But it won't work well enough to sell. DSL, as it is commonly known, is a transitional product. FiOS is where it's at. The basic strategy is to deliver very high bandwidth over a next generation network at prices that make cable look even more expensive than it already is. But talk is cheap, whiskey costs money. This is an immense capital investment but it is paying off. Nothing here reflects anything but my personal opinion and all of it is public domain. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds
I believe that T1 lines come standard with a static IP number. As you state below their up speed is as much as their down speed. (Most home DSL's and Cable setups have a high down speed, but a much slower up speed. Depends on how they are configured. Most DS1s (don't say T1) are channelized in one way or another. We break the 1.544 bandwidth down into either 24 56kb (T0) channels or 23 (64 kb D0) channels and a signalling channel (D channel) in the case of a PRI. A point to point DS1, sometimes misreferred to as a wide open T1 is indeed a symmetrical 1.544 path. But it doesn't magically access the internet, it has to be hooked up to a provider POP (Point Of Presence) to do that. Otherwise it's just an alternative means of accessing the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network). A point to point DS1 can also connect two subscriber locations, etc. It's just a data pipe. Also I believe there is no limit placed on a T1 line where limits are regularly placed and enforced on home DSL/Cable lines (ask the AP who just caught Comcast limiting bandwidth on customers). Point to point DS1 usage isn't metered. PSTN access is metered just like a regular phone line unless there's a specific contract agreement in place. I also think but am not sure how to state it, but the width of the T1 line is much greater than any home DSL/Cable hook up. (What I am trying to say is a T1 line can handle a lot more volume than a home DSL/Cable connection). No, actually I can download faster with 3 mbps ADSL than I could over a DS1, if the DSLAM is in good shape and the other network equipment is nominal. I only get half the upload speed of a DS1, and probably a reliability tradeoff, but as long as my provider doesn't cap my transfer volume and data rate I'm doing better with ADSL. Far better in terms of cost. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] BroadBand Speeds...and packet shaping
Not just limiting bandwith, but packet shaping. Here comes the future of the internet thanks to companies like ATT and Comcast and senators like Ted 'tubes' Stevens and Hatch. Gah. Mike On 10/24/07, Rev. Stewart Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also I believe there is no limit placed on a T1 line where limits are regularly placed and enforced on home DSL/Cable lines (ask the AP who just caught Comcast limiting bandwidth on customers) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
