Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can somebody give me instructions how to make MINIMAL Linux install? (I mean, what packages are REQUIRED, so I can skip unnecessary) I will continue with current installation on this PC, but for another notebook (P/133, 16MB) would like to go with: -kernel -filesystem without any special utilities -video, keyboard, mouse, CD-rom drivers -KDE2 (QT2+kdesupport+kdelibs+KDEbase) - so, that item is clear for me what you want is around 300MB: in workstation (was normal) type install, choose 300MB of packages and you'll get what you want. The problem is that currently the compssList is not very uptodate, but it should be soon/tomorrow.
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Loooks like - yes, Perl is still needed by some packages. At least, I was not able to clean up it from my installation completely, but succeded with some minor perl-related packages. Perl is scripting language, right? And old-fashioned, not easy to use... I believe it can be replaced by JavaScript, especially taking into consideration that it is now has ECMA standard (ECMA script) It will take some time compilers/make utilities to follow, but system setup should go without Perl. On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Thomas Poindessous wrote: On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 11:29:32PM +0400, Vadim Plessky wrote: So, all command-line utilities SHOULD NOT be included on HDD. I also don't need PERL, help and all X-utilities/games/etc. But perl is needed by base packages
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Loooks like - yes, Perl is still needed by some packages. At least, I was not able to clean up it from my installation completely, but succeded with some minor perl-related packages. You won't get rid of perl completely, all of the installation scripts and such are written in Perl (stuff such as DrakConf as well, I believe). Perl is scripting language, right? And old-fashioned, not easy to use... That depends on your point of view... :) I believe it can be replaced by JavaScript, especially taking into consideration that it is now has ECMA standard (ECMA script) It will take some time compilers/make utilities to follow, but system setup should go without Perl. That may be, but it will probably be quite a while before javascript on unix has support for as much system stuff as perl does. Perl has built-in hooks for accessing system-level stuff through C, I'm not sure if that's available with javascript yet, and until then, things like the disk resizing code in the installer couldn't be replaced. -- Ben Reed ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://defiance.dyndns.org/ Fight the InterNIC! http://www.opennic.unrated.net/
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Loooks like - yes, Perl is still needed by some packages. At least, I was not able to clean up it from my installation completely, but succeded with some minor perl-related packages. Perl is scripting language, right? And old-fashioned, not easy to use... hum, this is at least nonsense. I could start being mean, beware! I believe it can be replaced by JavaScript, especially taking into consideration that it is now has ECMA standard (ECMA script) do you know any JavaScript interpreter? i don't know any (except including in browsers) and JavaScript is no good for text processing [...] But perl is needed by base packages /usr/bin/perl with no whistles is needed. Not very big (package perl-base)
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
List-Subscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=subscribe%20cooker List-Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe%20cooker List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Owner: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Loooks like - yes, Perl is still needed by some packages. At least, I was not able to clean up it from my installation completely, but succeded with some minor perl-related packages. Perl is scripting language, right? And old-fashioned, not easy to use... hum, this is at least nonsense. I could start being mean, beware! Hey aren't some of our tools written with GTK-perl .. -- Geoff
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Stephen and dear Mandrake, I believe 300MB is still too much. 100MB is my target, 150MB is absolute maximum. Recently I was re-installing Windows 98 Second Edition. 130MB put on disk (install cabs), then - setup.exe. And -Windows installed! Additional Compaq stuff (I have Compaq Presario 1800 notebook) takes around 10MB, plus DVD player from Mediamatics. Rather compact. But, for my old HP OmniBook 5500 notebook (Pentium/133, 16MB, 1.3GB HDD, ChipsTechnologies video) it will not work. (that's my wife's computer) And, for sure, I will not compile programs on HP Omnibook. :-) But that machine is still ok, and runs Windows 98 with Solitaire at very reasonable speed. As well as MS Outlook. Your answer means that this machine will stay with Win 98 forever... OK, I can make compromise and run Gnome or IceWM (instead of KDE) on HP Omnibook - I believe there is some Solitaire, which doesn't need ultra-modern CORBA-enabled object-oriented browser :-) But as mailing client, I really like KMail. And KMail needs KDE. Not sure that Evolution will run without Gnome, so looks like KDE or GNOME has to be installed. Any advise from Mandrake side? Best regards, Vadim On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Pixel wrote: Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can somebody give me instructions how to make MINIMAL Linux install? (I mean, what packages are REQUIRED, so I can skip unnecessary) I will continue with current installation on this PC, but for another notebook (P/133, 16MB) would like to go with: -kernel -filesystem without any special utilities -video, keyboard, mouse, CD-rom drivers -KDE2 (QT2+kdesupport+kdelibs+KDEbase) - so, that item is clear for me what you want is around 300MB: in workstation (was normal) type install, choose 300MB of packages and you'll get what you want. The problem is that currently the compssList is not very uptodate, but it should be soon/tomorrow.
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Yo! [...] Stephen and dear Mandrake, I believe 300MB is still too much. 100MB is my target, 150MB is absolute maximum. You probably want to do some hacking around with the packages, and do some give and take. Recently I was re-installing Windows 98 Second Edition. 130MB put on disk (install cabs), then - setup.exe. And -Windows installed! Additional Compaq stuff (I have Compaq Presario 1800 notebook) takes around 10MB, plus DVD player from Mediamatics. Rather compact. FYI, I have an old 486 with a 6.0 based distribution (though it is of coures cookerized, duh ... ;) BTW an interesting fact is that Mandrake 6.x *DOES* work on i486 computers with hacking, it is just that you must recompile the kernel yourself. The last time I did df it used around 183 MB, that's for all of the core, plus XFree 3, and samba. But, for my old HP OmniBook 5500 notebook (Pentium/133, 16MB, 1.3GB HDD, ChipsTechnologies video) it will not work. (that's my wife's computer) And, for sure, I will not compile programs on HP Omnibook. :-) But that machine is still ok, and runs Windows 98 with Solitaire at very reasonable speed. As well as MS Outlook. Your answer means that this machine will stay with Win 98 forever... OK, I can make compromise and run Gnome or IceWM (instead of KDE) on HP Omnibook - I believe there is some Solitaire, which doesn't need ultra-modern CORBA-enabled object-oriented browser :-) But as mailing client, I really like KMail. And KMail needs KDE. Not sure that Evolution will run without Gnome, so looks like KDE or GNOME has to be installed. Are you sure ? You only need the KDE libs, no? -- Geoff
Sv: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Dear Vadim, you should install Blackbox window-manager, and run all KDE apps from Blackbox. You will be surprised. I have Pentium 166 with 32 MGb EDO RAM, and I can run both Helix-Gnome and KDE2 desktop on top of Blackbox (both at the same time) at reasonable speed. Check it out. If you need HowTo, just mail me. You can also check my screenshot on kde.themes.org under misc category, and see how it looks. Regards, Zeljko - Original Message - From: Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pixel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?] Stephen and dear Mandrake, I believe 300MB is still too much. 100MB is my target, 150MB is absolute maximum. Recently I was re-installing Windows 98 Second Edition. 130MB put on disk (install cabs), then - setup.exe. And -Windows installed! Additional Compaq stuff (I have Compaq Presario 1800 notebook) takes around 10MB, plus DVD player from Mediamatics. Rather compact. But, for my old HP OmniBook 5500 notebook (Pentium/133, 16MB, 1.3GB HDD, ChipsTechnologies video) it will not work. (that's my wife's computer) And, for sure, I will not compile programs on HP Omnibook. :-) But that machine is still ok, and runs Windows 98 with Solitaire at very reasonable speed. As well as MS Outlook. Your answer means that this machine will stay with Win 98 forever... OK, I can make compromise and run Gnome or IceWM (instead of KDE) on HP Omnibook - I believe there is some Solitaire, which doesn't need ultra-modern CORBA-enabled object-oriented browser :-) But as mailing client, I really like KMail. And KMail needs KDE. Not sure that Evolution will run without Gnome, so looks like KDE or GNOME has to be installed. Any advise from Mandrake side? Best regards, Vadim On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Pixel wrote: Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can somebody give me instructions how to make MINIMAL Linux install? (I mean, what packages are REQUIRED, so I can skip unnecessary) I will continue with current installation on this PC, but for another notebook (P/133, 16MB) would like to go with: -kernel -filesystem without any special utilities -video, keyboard, mouse, CD-rom drivers -KDE2 (QT2+kdesupport+kdelibs+KDEbase) - so, that item is clear for me what you want is around 300MB: in workstation (was normal) type install, choose 300MB of packages and you'll get what you want. The problem is that currently the compssList is not very uptodate, but it should be soon/tomorrow.
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Pixel wrote: | Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | I believe it can be replaced by JavaScript, especially taking into | consideration that it is now has ECMA standard (ECMA script) | | do you know any JavaScript interpreter? i don't know any (except including | in browsers) | and JavaScript is no good for text processing For sure, JavaScript is good for text processing. JavaScript was created as answer to Microsoft's VBScript, derivative of Visual Basic. And Basic is very strong in strings manipulations. As far as I know, all scripts for Active Server Pages are written in VBScript. I haven't checked yet, but looks like there's Server version of JavaScript (1.4 or something like this) You can check on http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/ | | [...] | |But perl is needed by base packages | | /usr/bin/perl with no whistles is needed. Not very big (package perl-base) -- Vadim Plessky
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
For sure, JavaScript is good for text processing. JavaScript was created as answer to Microsoft's VBScript, derivative of Visual Basic. And Basic is very strong in strings manipulations. Unless it has changed, VB and JScript both are weak in string manipulation compared to Perl (at least, they were lacking decent regular expressions and such last time I played with either). Large amounts of substr's (which is what most vbscript string-manipulation code I've seen is) can be replaced with 1 simple regex. Regardless, I doubt you're going to get them to change anytime soon, with all of the work that has been put into the installer and utilities thus far. As far as I know, all scripts for Active Server Pages are written in VBScript. Unless they're written in PerlScript. :) http://www.activestate.com/ .ASP files are language-agnostic, they use Windows Scripting Host, which comes with JScript and VBScript by default. Regardless, I'm veering way off topic. On an on-topic note, I did a network install of cooker yesterday and all went fine, my SCSI driver problems were fixed. Unfortunately, XFree86 went a little funky and screwed up my hardware cursor and such (Voodoo3500, 1600x1200), I see that those packages have been updated since I did my install. I may try another install tonight and see how it goes. -- Ben Reed ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://defiance.dyndns.org/ Fight the InterNIC! http://www.opennic.unrated.net/
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Submitted 31-Aug-00 by Vadim Plessky: I believe 300MB is still too much. 100MB is my target, 150MB is absolute maximum. On a target machine with 1 GB hard drive? Recently I was re-installing Windows 98 Second Edition. 130MB put on disk (install cabs), then - setup.exe. And -Windows installed! I'm afraid you must be mistaken. MS Windows 98 SE will not install in less then 210 MB disk space without the CABs installed. The CABs are additional to that. Your 130 MB install was before the install actually happened. Win 95, on the other hand could be installed in 40. -- Anton
RE: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
Not liking perl is one thing, to each his own. But replacing perl with javascript? Now that's so funny I almost barfed Dr. Pepper all over my keyboard! G. -- Don Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Optivus Technology, Inc. (909) 799-8300 "Splitting Atoms.. Saving Lives!"http://www.optivus.com Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Loooks like - yes, Perl is still needed by some packages. At least, I was not able to clean up it from my installation completely, but succeded with some minor perl-related packages. Perl is scripting language, right? And old-fashioned, not easy to use... hum, this is at least nonsense. I could start being mean, beware! Hey aren't some of our tools written with GTK-perl .. -- Geoff
Re: [Cooker] Minimal installation of Mandrake [Re: 750 meg of cooker: how to divide?]
On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 11:29:32PM +0400, Vadim Plessky wrote: goshh, You are happy guy - probably, equiped with xDSL or cable modem! I am wondering how long it will take to download on 56k modem :-( My question is opposite, to qulified LINUX GURU's. Can somebody give me instructions how to make MINIMAL Linux install? (I mean, what packages are REQUIRED, so I can skip unnecessary) I will continue with current installation on this PC, but for another notebook (P/133, 16MB) would like to go with: -kernel -filesystem without any special utilities -video, keyboard, mouse, CD-rom drivers -KDE2 (QT2+kdesupport+kdelibs+KDEbase) - so, that item is clear for me So, all command-line utilities SHOULD NOT be included on HDD. I also don't need PERL, help and all X-utilities/games/etc. But perl is needed by base packages -- Thomas Poindessous EpX asso GNU/Linux de l'Epita [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.epita.fr/~epx
