[css-d] Styling of disabled form elements

[Mark Stickley]

Hi all,

Just wondering if it's actually possible to apply styles specifically  
to disabled form elements or if we're just at the mercy of the  
browser? And if it's possible, could you possibly give an example or  
two?

Thanks!
Mark
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[css-d] dean Edwards IE7 offline?

[Nicolas Sauveur]

Hello, I am new to this list, and fairly new to CSS...

I am trying to get a hand on Dean Edwards's IE7, but the page has been
offline for 2 days now.
http://dean.edwards.name

Anyone know if this is likely to last? In which case can someone put the
files online?
it is a little frustrating to wait like this when you have deadlines...

thanks.

Nic
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Re: [css-d] dean Edwards IE7 offline?

[Ingo Chao]

Nicolas Sauveur wrote:
> I am trying to get a hand on Dean Edwards's IE7, 


http://sourceforge.net/projects/ie7

Completely OT, Nicolas.

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Re: [css-d] Styling of disabled form elements

[Christian Heilmann]

> Just wondering if it's actually possible to apply styles specifically
> to disabled form elements or if we're just at the mercy of the
> browser? And if it's possible, could you possibly give an example or
> two?

It is the same, if not worse than with normal form controls, you just
cannot control their look and feel for good reasons (the user knows
how they look in his environment and they have been tested on people
and deemed good for the purpose).

If you don't want to make them look like this, why don't you hide
inactive elements and replace them with your styled place holders and
vice versa?

--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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Re: [css-d] IE6 crash on Windows XP

[James Booker]

Just in case anyone cares, I've fixed this problem - the top line of
my CSS was causing the crash, and wasn't even used:

DIV,* {position:relative; top:0; left: 0}

I don't know why this was sttill in there, a leftover from the
template I customised, no doubt. Hopefully someone will find this
useful.

Cheers
James

- Original Message -
SUBJECT: Re: [css-d] IE6 crash on Windows XP
FROM:  James Booker 
TO: "Duckworth, Nigel" ,css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
DATE: 02-03-2006 1:22
Hi Nigel,

The !doctype is there, I temporarily got rid of it to force IE into 
quirks mode. I'm still playing with it! I'll check those other things

and fix them

Cheers
James

Duckworth, Nigel wrote:
> James, 
>
> I'd start by fixing these: 
>
> line 1 column 1 - Warning: missing  declaration
> line 49 column 15 - Warning: missing  before 
> line 49 column 217 - Warning: discarding unexpected 
> line 67 column 1 - Warning: discarding unexpected 
>
> Best, 
>
> -Nigel
>
>
>
>
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[css-d] Accessibility, Usability, Cross compatibility and general aesthetics.

[Scott Wilcox]

Hey Guys.

I've recently been working on shrinking the content/projects I have, and 
after doing so realised that in fairness, i should update my site. Of 
course I'm going to go for an XHTML/CSS based design, but I also want to 
go for a low file size too. The site contains a basic journal, snippets 
of code and other resources mostly related to using XHTML, CSS, PHP, 
JavaScript and SQL.

I was writing to you guys to see what pointers you have, and would 
suggest when it comes down to accessibility, usability, cross 
compatibility and general aesthetics too. I'm unsure of going to for a 
more web 2.0 look due to the fact its becoming increasingly overused. 
I'd still like to stay unique to a certain extent.

I'm thinking of going for a three column, fluid width layout with three 
columns, left, content and centre (left and right being ~180-200px). 
Anyone's comments, ideas and links welcome :)

Looking forward to hearing from you all.

Scott.


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Re: [css-d] Accessibility, Usability, Cross compatibility and general aesthetics.

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Scott Wilcox wrote:
> I was writing to you guys to see what pointers you have, and would 
> suggest when it comes down to accessibility, usability, cross 
> compatibility and general aesthetics too. I'm unsure of going to for 
> a more web 2.0 look due to the fact its becoming increasingly 
> overused. I'd still like to stay unique to a certain extent.

On "accessibility" (and all the rest) I'd advice you to keep an eye on
this article-series...

...as it develops. Some good starting-points are there already.

> I'm thinking of going for a three column, fluid width layout with 
> three columns, left, content and centre (left and right being 
> ~180-200px). Anyone's comments, ideas and links welcome :)

Pick and choose...


I still prefer to build two and three (and whatever) column layouts
based on this...

...but maybe that's just me ;-)

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Styling of disabled form elements

[Mark Howells]

> Just wondering if it's actually possible to apply styles specifically
> to disabled form elements

Try having a look at http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/ 
selector.html#attribute-selectors which details attribute selectors.  
Surprise surprise, that they don't work in all browsers!

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch


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[css-d] ADMIN Re: Alternative font sizing

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Jared Stein wrote:
> Anyway, a few have commented that this is a bit off-topic, so I'll invite any 
> further points/counterpoints offlist!
>   

Yes, it's off-topic, so yes, all discussion about this needs to move 
off-list.

Thanks,
Zoe Gillenwater
css-d list moderator


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[css-d] Q: variable image in DIV with some text on top. Possible?

[Angel Outon]

Hi.

I like to ask anyone of you to see if this is possible and some advise 
for it.

I have a banner made by a div and has an variable image to display. This 
is done using this script: http://www.bezveze.com/skripte/rid/

Something like this


Some text over the image
   


I like to have the text> Some text over the image   to be displayed on 
top of the random image.

Is this possible?

Thanks for your advise,

regards,

Angel

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Re: [css-d] Q: variable image in DIV with some text on top. Possible?

[Michael Clayton]

(Clicking reply in Gmail defaults to the user's email address, and not
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Anyone know a way to fix this?  I accidently
sent this to Angel directly.)

That should be possible by setting the "margin-top" of the image to a
negative number, which would slide it under the text.  You may have to set
the z-indeces of the text to a higher number than the image if the image
overlaps the text in that case.

Alternatively, you could forego the  tag completely and instead use a
background image as follows

.rand-img-box {
 background: top left no-repeat url(random_image.jpg);
 }


 Text describing image


If you go that way you will run into problems with height and width of the
box.  If I remember correctly, PHP is capable of reading the height and
width of an image, so you could fix that fairly easily.  It's been a very
long time since I've done PHP, and I don't know any of the image functions,
but here is the getimagesize() function for your pleasure.

http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.getimagesize.php

Hope that helps, and good luck!

--
Michael Clayton
www.twilighted.com


On 3/8/06, Angel Outon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> I like to ask anyone of you to see if this is possible and some advise
> for it.
>
> I have a banner made by a div and has an variable image to display. This
> is done using this script: http://www.bezveze.com/skripte/rid/
>
> Something like this
>
> 
> Some text over the image
>
> 
>
> I like to have the text> Some text over the image   to be displayed on
> top of the random image.
>
> Is this possible?
>
> Thanks for your advise,
>
> regards,
>
> Angel
>
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>




--
Michael Clayton
www.twilighted.com
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Re: [css-d] Q: variable image in DIV with some text on top. Possible?

[Scott Wilcox]

getimagesize() is the PHP function you're looking for.

Michael Clayton wrote:
> (Clicking reply in Gmail defaults to the user's email address, and not
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Anyone know a way to fix this?  I accidently
> sent this to Angel directly.)
>
> That should be possible by setting the "margin-top" of the image to a
> negative number, which would slide it under the text.  You may have to set
> the z-indeces of the text to a higher number than the image if the image
> overlaps the text in that case.
>
> Alternatively, you could forego the  tag completely and instead use a
> background image as follows
>
> .rand-img-box {
>  background: top left no-repeat url(random_image.jpg);
>  }
>
> 
>  Text describing image
> 
>
> If you go that way you will run into problems with height and width of the
> box.  If I remember correctly, PHP is capable of reading the height and
> width of an image, so you could fix that fairly easily.  It's been a very
> long time since I've done PHP, and I don't know any of the image functions,
> but here is the getimagesize() function for your pleasure.
>
> http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.getimagesize.php
>
> Hope that helps, and good luck!
>
> --
> Michael Clayton
> www.twilighted.com
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Re: [css-d] Q: variable image in DIV with some text on top. Possible?

[Mark Howells]

> 
> Some text over the image
>
> 
>
> I like to have the text> Some text over the image   to be displayed on
> top of the random image.

div {position:relative} /* i'd add a class name if I were you, 
such  
as .banner */
div p   {position:absolute;top:0;left:0}

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch


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Re: [css-d] Q: variable image in DIV with some text on top.Possible?

[Els]

Michael Clayton wrote:
> (Clicking reply in Gmail defaults to the user's email address,
> and not [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Anyone know a way to fix
> this?  I accidently sent this to Angel directly.)

Click 'more options' in the top right when reading the message, 
and then choose 'reply to all' from the links that appear.

-- 
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
http://locusoptimus.com/

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Re: [css-d] Q: variable image in DIV with some text on top. Possible?

[Angel Outon]

Thank you all for the tips.

I am trying now all of them.

I'll certainly see the rotator you recommend and now I tried the Mark 
hint and is working now.

Best regards to all
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Re: [css-d] IE footer problem

[Michael Clayton]

Though peace now reigns in IExplorerville, danger is brewing in Netscapia.

The same problem --but probably with a different cause-- is occuring in NN
6.0 and NN 6.01.  It doesn't impair accessability at all, so normally I
wouldn't worry too much about it.  Unfortunately it is concealing the
Copyright notice, a fatal flaw.

http://www.twilighted.com/ntc/index2.html - This is the fixed version of the
page, which works in all browsers I have tested except for the regrettable
bug in NN 6.0 and NN 6.01.

If you don't have these versions of NN and want them, you can dig them up at
http://browsers.evolt.org/  I don't expect anyone to go to all that trouble
on my account, but they're there if you want 'em. :)

--
Michael Clayton
www.twilighted.com
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Re: [css-d] Simple CSS Question?

[Michael Clayton]

Hi Daniel,

I've had similar problems with IE, but have never been able to find a
solution.  It may be a comfort that most users probably won't have a
viewport smaller than 800x600.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.  Hopefully one of the wise souls on this list
will be able to sort out this mystery.

--
Michael Clayton
www.twilighted.com


On 3/7/06, Daniel Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey there, I'm new.
>
> Could somebody check out http://www.shopperschoice.com/ for me.  The
> problem
> I'm having is that the page jumps down to the bottom when you resize below
> 800x600 in Internet Explorer.  Please check out the CSS and let me know
> what
> I'm doing wrong here, thanks!
>
> Daniel Patterson
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Re: [css-d] List Replies

[Adam Kuehn]

At 09:13 AM 3/8/2006, Michael Clayton wrote:
>(Clicking reply in Gmail defaults to the user's email address, and not
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Anyone know a way to fix this?  I accidently
>sent this to Angel directly.)

Some e-mail clients can set up addressing based on headers other than 
"Reply-To".  I don't think Gmail's interface allows that.  So the 
short answer is that you'll need to hit reply to all.

Please see 
 for more 
information as to why the list operates in this way.

HTH,


-Adam Kuehn 

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Re: [css-d] Simple CSS Question?

[Daniel Patterson]

Found a solution to my problem, added

width:900px;

to the #wrapper div in styles.css

Daniel

On 3/8/06, Michael Clayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I've had similar problems with IE, but have never been able to find a
> solution.  It may be a comfort that most users probably won't have a
> viewport smaller than 800x600.
>
> Sorry I couldn't be more help.  Hopefully one of the wise souls on this
> list will be able to sort out this mystery.
>
> --
> Michael Clayton
> www.twilighted.com
>
>
> On 3/7/06, Daniel Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hey there, I'm new.
>
> Could somebody check out http://www.shopperschoice.com/ for me.  The
> problem
> I'm having is that the page jumps down to the bottom when you resize below
>
> 800x600 in Internet Explorer.  Please check out the CSS and let me know
> what
> I'm doing wrong here, thanks!
>
> Daniel Patterson
> __
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>
>
>
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Re: [css-d] List Replies

[Ricky Zhou]

> >(Clicking reply in Gmail defaults to the user's email address, and not
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Anyone know a way to fix this?  I accidently
> >sent this to Angel directly.)
I think there's a "reply to all" button in gmail which cc's it to css-d.

Ricky
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[css-d] Setting Div Height in IE6

[dpgirago]

Howdy,

The following div displays correctly in Firefox but IE6 seems not to
respect the height of 5px. If I set this very large, like 100px, IE
displays it ok, but at a small height, like 5px, it just stops shrinking.
After hanging out on this list for awhile now, I'm not surprised by this
behavior, but I don't know how to fix it.



This is a PHP application and all styling is done in-line because there is
so little of it. The div simply sits between a closing  tag and the
closing  tag.

Thanks very much for any ideas.

David


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Re: [css-d] Setting Div Height in IE6

[Els]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> The following div displays correctly in Firefox but IE6 seems
> not to respect the height of 5px. If I set this very large,
> like 100px, IE displays it ok, but at a small height, like
> 5px, it just stops shrinking.

If you set font-size and line-height for that div so that they 
fit within the 5px, IE will probably display it as desired. 
Another option is overflow:hidden.

-- 
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
http://locusoptimus.com/

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Re: [css-d] Accessibility, Usability, Cross compatibility and general aesthetics.

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Scott Wilcox wrote:
>   
>> I was writing to you guys to see what pointers you have, and would 
>> suggest when it comes down to accessibility, usability, cross 
>> compatibility and general aesthetics too. I'm unsure of going to for 
>> a more web 2.0 look due to the fact its becoming increasingly 
>> overused. I'd still like to stay unique to a certain extent.
>> 

This list can't really help you on anything other than practical CSS 
issues, so I'd encourage those with advice for Scott in these areas to 
share it with him off-list.

>> I'm thinking of going for a three column, fluid width layout with 
>> three columns, left, content and centre (left and right being 
>> ~180-200px). Anyone's comments, ideas and links welcome :)
>> 
>
> Pick and choose...
> 
>
> I still prefer to build two and three (and whatever) column layouts
> based on this...
> 
> ...but maybe that's just me ;-)
>   

It's certainly not just you! :-)  Very popular layout method.

I prefer a flipped around version of the negative margin approach that 
avoids IE's tendency to drop floats when large content is thrown in the 
mix. For a really simple demo of this problem, see this page which uses 
Ryan Brill's negative margin method, view in IE, and narrow the page:
http://www.pixelsurge.com/experiment/negative_margins_1.html

Then compare with the method I usually use:
http://www.pixelsurge.com/experiment/negative_margins_2.html
(I did not invent this, and there are other more robust demos -- this is 
just a simple one.)

Of course, the type of layout you want to do, Scott, can just as easily 
be accomplished by floating the left column left, the right column 
right, and giving the center column appropriate side margins. Source 
order won't be as ideal, but this is a simpler and more foolproof method 
than negative margins can be.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Basic confusion on syntax

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Els wrote:
> Els wrote:
>
>   
>> the second element is a child of the first one.
>>
>> Some examples:
>> 'ul#subNavlist li' means a  element, that is a child of a
>>  element with id="subNavlist".
>> '#subNavlist li' means a  element, that is a child of any
>> element with id="subNavlist".
>> 'ul#subNavlist' means a  element with id="subNavlist".
>> 'div.foo' means a  element with class="foo".
>> '.foo' means any element with class="foo".
>> '.foo div' means a  element which is a child of any
>> element with class="foo".
>> 
>
> Ahem - everywhere I said child, I meant descendant.
>   

Right -- and though a child element is a type of descendant, it is not 
the same thing as a descendant. A descendant is any element nested 
within another one no matter how many levels down, put simply. I 
strongly recommend reading this for anyone who hasn't yet:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Setting Div Height in IE6

[dpgirago]

>> The following div displays correctly in Firefox but IE6 seems
>> not to respect the height of 5px. If I set this very large,
>> like 100px, IE displays it ok, but at a small height, like
>> 5px, it just stops shrinking.

> If you set font-size and line-height for that div so that they
> fit within the 5px, IE will probably display it as desired.
> Another option is overflow:hidden.

Much Thanks, Els.  overflow:hidden did the trick.

David



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Re: [css-d] IE footer problem - nct-res

[Michael Clayton]

Thanks, I wasn't aware that NN 6.x were betas.  I'll stop fretting now.
Yesterday I went a bit insane and downloaded 20+ old browsers.  My thinking
was this, "It will be awesome if I can make my sites work in everything."
The odds of anyone using an old Netscape are about as good as the odds of my
head quantum tunneling through my desk as I bang it in frusteration.  But
there's always a chance.

As for the font sizes, I'm still working off this old ALA article.  It's two
years old now, though.

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/elastic/

Is pt now preferred over ems?  I've not stayed in the loop as much as I
should have.  The advantage I see of ems with a 90~% font size is that the
text is readable at any IE size, from smallest to largest.  With ems, but
without 90% font size in place, the actual size change from smallest to
largest is far too drastic.  Smallest becomes impossibly small, and largest
is so big that it breaks the layout.  90% font size makes the users' size
changes significant, but not extreme.  In IE, pt seems to have the same
problem as px, it cannot be resized by the user.  I would be happy to learn
a better method, of course.

--
Michael Clayton
www.twilighted.com

On 3/8/06, Felix Miata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> almost certainly wrote:

Do your browser stats actually show a material number of people using
> those insecure, buggy, slow, old, beta browser versions? They need a
> good hard push to upgrading to secure non-beta software. All Netscape
> 6.x versions are betaware. Security issues alone rule out safely using
> all Netscapes except the newest 8.whatever, and even that may be a risk,
> since Netscape isn't too quick to implement the security fixes
> implemented in Mozilla Project CVS.
>
> Different subject: Why don't you want users by default seeing their
> choices of the font sizes and families that work best for them?
> http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/michac1.jpg
> http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/tmp/showcased.html
> --
> "Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according
> to the law of the Lord."Psalm 119:11 NIV
>
>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/auth
>
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[css-d] Extra Border in IE6

[jdreid]

I have managed to create an extra horizontal border somehow that I do not need 
and wish to get rid of.  The page displays fine in FireFox.  I have narrowed it 
to having to do with this section of my CSS but can not figure out wherew to 
corect it at.

#navcontainer
{
margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;
margin-bottom: 10px;
border-top: 1px solid #999;
z-index: 1;
}

#navcontainer ul
{
list-style-type: none;
text-align: center;
margin-top: -8px;
padding: 0;
position: relative;
z-index: 2;
}

#navcontainer li
{
display: inline;
text-align: center;
margin: 0 5px;
}

#navcontainer li a
{
padding: 1px 7px;
color: #666;
background-color: #F2D5AA;
border: 1px solid #ccc;
text-decoration: none;
font-weight: bold;
}

#navcontainer li a:hover
{
color: #000;
border: 1px solid #666;
border-top: 2px solid #666;
border-bottom: 2px solid #666;
}

#navcontainer li a#current
{
color: #000;
border: 1px solid #666;
border-top: 2px solid #222;
border-bottom: 2px solid #222;
}

Here is the page url:
http://www.hhimusic.com/download/MK/

Here is the CSS url:
http://www.hhimusic.com/download/MK/css/main.css

--
Thanks!

Jeff

http://www.patandjeff.com
*

*
Visit http://www.websites4199.com for an alternative to high development prices!

Visit http://www.milliondollarsites.net if you just got to spend the big bucks 
and brag about it.


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Re: [css-d] Extra Border in IE6

[Els]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I have managed to create an extra horizontal border somehow
> that I do not need and wish to get rid of.  The page displays
> fine in FireFox.  I have narrowed it to having to do with this
> section of my CSS but can not figure out wherew to corect it
> at.

[snip code]

> Here is the page url:
> http://www.hhimusic.com/download/MK/
>
> Here is the CSS url:
> http://www.hhimusic.com/download/MK/css/main.css

It's a bug (of course), but I don't know if it's documented or 
under what name. Maybe it's the same bug as the one that 
duplicates pieces of text when the widths of floating columns add 
up to exactly 100%.

Anyway, what you're seeing is the top border of a duplicate of 
the #navcontainer. If you add more content to it so that it gets 
higher, so does the duplicate.
It's caused by a combination of having a negative (top)margin on 
the ul, and no set width on the div#navcontainer. Add a width 
(even 100% does the trick) to div#navcontainer, or drop the 
negative margin on the ul, and the duplicate disappears.

-- 
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
http://locusoptimus.com/

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Re: [css-d] Extra Border in IE6

[francky]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I have managed to create an extra horizontal border somehow that I do not need 
>and wish to get rid of.  The page displays fine in FireFox.  I have narrowed 
>it to having to do with this section of my CSS but can not figure out wherew 
>to corect it at.
>
>[...]
>Here is the page url:
>http://www.hhimusic.com/download/MK/
>  
>
Hi,
With giving "Layout" to the #navcontainer IE is performing normal:
#navcontainer { height: 1%; ... }

francky


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Re: [css-d] Accessibility, Usability, Cross compatibility and general aesthetics.

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote:
> Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

>> I still prefer to build two and three (and whatever) column layouts
>>  based on this... 
>>  ...but maybe 
>> that's just me ;-)

> It's certainly not just you! :-)  Very popular layout method.
> 
> I prefer a flipped around version of the negative margin approach 
> that avoids IE's tendency to drop floats when large content is thrown
>  in the mix.

The "flip" is a real improvement :-)

I think I'm using a /slightly/ similar method with both positive and
negative margins on floats, and some paddings and/or borders to go with
it. It's still having Brill's method as base, but I've flipped it around
so many times that even IE gets dizzy, so I won't recommend such a
"flip-flop" for anyone but the most steady (or suicidal) web designers.

No float-drop in IE though...

...but that may be entirely accidental ;-)

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] IE footer problem - nct-res

[~davidLaakso]

Michael Clayton wrote:
> Thanks, I wasn't aware that NN 6.x were betas.  I'll stop fretting now.
> Yesterday I went a bit insane and downloaded 20+ old browsers.  My thinking
> was this, "It will be awesome if I can make my sites work in everything."
> The odds of anyone using an old Netscape are about as good as the odds of my
> head quantum tunneling through my desk as I bang it in frusteration.  But
> there's always a chance.
>
> As for the font sizes, I'm still working off this old ALA article.  It's two
> years old now, though.
>
> http://www.alistapart.com/articles/elastic/
>
> Is pt now preferred over ems?
Points may be preferred for print, but not the screen.
>   I've not stayed in the loop as much as I
> should have.  The advantage I see of ems with a 90~% font size is that the
> text is readable at any IE size, from smallest to largest.  With ems, but
> without 90% font size in place, the actual size change from smallest to
> largest is far too drastic.  Smallest becomes impossibly small, and largest
> is so big that it breaks the layout.
When setting with em's it is best to use percent on the body or html. 
Not doing so triggers a bug in IE that causes the font-sizes to go a bit 
goofy on + or - zoom.

>   90% font size makes the users' size
> changes significant, but not extreme.  In IE, pt seems to have the same
> problem as px, it cannot be resized by the user.  I would be happy to learn
> a better method, of course.
>   
There are many methods that one may use to set fonts. And there are more 
opinions than you can shake a stick at, about which method is best. See 
the wiki for methods, and pick the version of poison that best suits 
*your users.*.
FWIW, I use something like this:
body { font: 100%/1.2 sans-serif;}
With no font-size declared on the content-text p; and, with individual 
selectors targeted with percent font-size, and line-height expressed as 
a unit-less raw number,
(please see note below).
> --
> Michael Clayton
> www.twilighted.com
>
> On 3/8/06, Felix Miata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> almost certainly wrote:
>
> Do your browser stats actually show a material number of people using
>   
>> those insecure, buggy, slow, old, beta browser versions? They need a
>> good hard push to upgrading to secure non-beta software. All Netscape
>> 6.x versions are betaware. Security issues alone rule out safely using
>> all Netscapes except the newest 8.whatever, and even that may be a risk,
>> since Netscape isn't too quick to implement the security fixes
>> implemented in Mozilla Project CVS.
>>
>> Different subject: Why don't you want users by default seeing their
>> choices of the font sizes and families that work best for them?
>> http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/michac1.jpg
>> http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/tmp/showcased.html
>> --
>> "Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according
>> to the law of the Lord."Psalm 119:11 NIV
>>
>>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
>>
>> Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/auth
>>
>> 
>
>   
BTW, it's a good idea to write below those you reply to, rather than 
above them. This will help preserve the archives, and make it easier for 
others to follow a logical thread.
Regards,
~davidLaakso





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[css-d] Specificity, siblings, descendants

[Lorin Rivers]

tap... tap... tap... Is this thing on?

I want to style an unordered list so that the "top-level" elements are
bold with no bullets, while the items inside these have the bullets,
etc...

#content li
{
list-style-image: url(/images/bullet3.gif);
list-style-type: none;
line-height: 1.2;
}

/*Shout out to: http://www.simplebits.com*/
#content p + ul.nested > li
{
font-weight: bold;
list-style-type: none;
list-style-image: none;
margin-bottom: 0.5em;
}

#content .nested ul
{
font-weight: normal;
margin-top: .5em;
}

I couldn't figure out a way to do this without sibling selectors,
which makes IE cranky...

Suggestions?
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Re: [css-d] Specificity, siblings, descendants

[Els]

Lorin Rivers wrote:
> tap... tap... tap... Is this thing on?

Nope - that's a fake one.

> I want to style an unordered list so that the "top-level"
> elements are bold with no bullets, while the items inside
> these have the bullets, etc...

[snip code]

> I couldn't figure out a way to do this without sibling
> selectors, which makes IE cranky...


Since you didn't add in the html code, I have no idea what the 
sibling code was supposed to do, but this is how I would do what 
you want:

li{
font-weight:bold;
list-style-image:none;
}
li li{
font-weight:normal;
list-style-image:url(/images/bullet3.gif);
}

If this is not what you were after, please can you give a URL or 
a sample of the HTML as well?

-- 
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
http://locusoptimus.com/

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Re: [css-d] Specificity, siblings, descendants

[Paul Novitski]

At 10:31 AM 3/8/2006, Lorin Rivers wrote:
>I want to style an unordered list so that the "top-level" elements are
>bold with no bullets, while the items inside these have the bullets,
>etc...
>
>#content li
>{
> list-style-image: url(/images/bullet3.gif);
> list-style-type: none;
> line-height: 1.2;
>}
>
>/*Shout out to: http://www.simplebits.com*/
>#content p + ul.nested > li
>{
> font-weight: bold;
> list-style-type: none;
> list-style-image: none;
> margin-bottom: 0.5em;
>}
>
>#content .nested ul
>{
> font-weight: normal;
> margin-top: .5em;
>}
>
>I couldn't figure out a way to do this without sibling selectors,
>which makes IE cranky...


Easy: just reverse your CSS rules.  First define the top-level 
(really, all) items without bullets, then define the inner items with:

#content li
{
 font-weight: bold;
 list-style-type: none;
 margin-bottom: 0.5em;
 line-height: 1.2;
}
#content li li
{
 font-weight: normal;
 list-style-image: url(/images/bullet3.gif);
 margin-bottom: 0;
}

Paul 

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Re: [css-d] FIR header with anchor

[brian ally]

Further to the the problem of using image replacement, yet requiring an 
anchor, Thierry Koblentz sent me the following link offlist:

http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/tip.asp

The last version worked for me, though i put the text inside the anchor, 
rather than leave it empty. Works for me, and i don't understand why it 
was left outside in the first place. I also set the font size to .1em 
(from 1em) and changed the colour to the same as the banner bg. I had to 
do that because the logo is a 24-bit transparent PNG. I'll play with it 
some more to see if i can avoid even that.

Works, in any case.

brian
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[css-d] Can you shrink wrap a div round another?

[Alan Chandler]

I am trying to make a horizontal button component for my web site, that is in 
essence a dl list with each dd entry containing multiple divs to give a 3D 
effect to the button and immediate surround.

I would like the area surrounding the buttons to be a uniform pastel colour 
with a single black border round everything.

However, although I can probably make each button a fixed width(it would be 
better if not) , the number of buttons will vary from use to use, and of 
consquence I can't use a width value on the surrounding element.

As far as I see, if you don't specify a width divs expand outwards to fit in 
the available space.  Is there any trick I could use to give a shrink wrap 
effect - where a div shrinks to the size of the inner elements + padding?

-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
Open Source. It's the difference between trust and antitrust.
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Re: [css-d] Specificity, siblings, descendants

[Lorin Rivers]

I have a tendency to over-complicate my css rules...

On 3/8/06, Els <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lorin Rivers wrote:
> > tap... tap... tap... Is this thing on?
>
> Nope - that's a fake one.

har.

so here's how I solved it, based on y'alls hints.
#content .nested li { font-weight: bold; list-style-type: none;
list-style-position: default; list-style-image:none; }
#content .nested li li{ font-weight:normal;
list-style-image:url(/images/bullet3.gif); }

given this markup:


Item 1

sub item 1a
sub item 1b


Item 2

sub item 2a
sub item 2b
sub item 2c


Item 3

sub item 3a
sub item 3b
sub item 3c





Thanks a bunch!
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Re: [css-d] Can you shrink wrap a div round another?

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Alan Chandler wrote:
> As far as I see, if you don't specify a width divs expand outwards to fit in 
> the available space.  Is there any trick I could use to give a shrink wrap 
> effect - where a div shrinks to the size of the inner elements + padding?
>   

Floating the div produces a shrinkwrap effect in almost all browsers. 
Changing its display type to table-cell will also do this in browsers 
that support table-related display values.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Can you shrink wrap a div round another?

[cj]

here's a good place to start looking.  it's helped me out, at least a
little.  :)


http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement


look for the "don't know the width" section, or you can do a search
for "shrink".
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Re: [css-d] Can you shrink wrap a div round another?

[Alan Chandler]

On Wednesday 08 March 2006 20:22, Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote:
> Alan Chandler wrote:
> > As far as I see, if you don't specify a width divs expand outwards to fit
> > in the available space.  Is there any trick I could use to give a shrink
> > wrap effect - where a div shrinks to the size of the inner elements +
> > padding?
>
> Floating the div produces a shrinkwrap effect in almost all browsers.
> Changing its display type to table-cell will also do this in browsers
> that support table-related display values.

Unless I have made a silly mistake somewhere,  my floated div does not shrink 
completely. My page ( but originally generated via a java application - but 
editted my me to put the style inside the page) is at

http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testpage.html

The issue I have is with the .actionblock .action list in the #centre div 
where there is a large margin on the right hand  of the "save" button which I 
have no idea where it is coming from.


-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
Open Source. It's the difference between trust and antitrust.
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[css-d] anchor border clipped in IE

[Maziak, Peter \(Tek Systems\)]

Why do the anchor's borders on this page get clipped in IE6 (fine in FF)
and how can I prevent this? 
http://www.msu.edu/~maziak/umg/temp.html
 
Thanks,
-Pete
 
PS Embedded CSS is such:
 
a.linkButton {
 text-decoration: none;
 padding: 2px 3px;
 margin: 5px;
 color: #00;
 border: 1px solid #00;
}
a.linkButton:link, a.linkButton:visited{
 background-color:#B9CBFF;
}
a.linkButton:hover{
 background-color: #F8AB63; 
}
 
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Re: [css-d] anchor border clipped in IE

[Ingo Chao]

Maziak, Peter (Tek Systems) wrote:
> Why do the anchor's borders on this page get clipped in IE6 (fine in FF)

I don't know. Someone should tell them again that the inline formatting 
still (IE7b2prev) is sort of wrong.

> and how can I prevent this?

a.linkButton {position: relative;}. If this does not help on the real 
page, you could try giving the parent {position: relative;}, too.

> http://www.msu.edu/~maziak/umg/temp.html

Ingo

-- 
http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html
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Re: [css-d] Can you shrink wrap a div round another?

[Alan Chandler]

On Wednesday 08 March 2006 23:21, Alan Chandler wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 March 2006 20:22, Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote:
> > Alan Chandler wrote:
> > > As far as I see, if you don't specify a width divs expand outwards to
> > > fit in the available space.  Is there any trick I could use to give a
> > > shrink wrap effect - where a div shrinks to the size of the inner
> > > elements + padding?
> >
> > Floating the div produces a shrinkwrap effect in almost all browsers.
> > Changing its display type to table-cell will also do this in browsers
> > that support table-related display values.
>
> Unless I have made a silly mistake somewhere,  

There was a silly mistake.  An Extra  at the end.

-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
Open Source. It's the difference between trust and antitrust.
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Re: [css-d] anchor border clipped in IE

[francky]

Ingo Chao wrote:

>Maziak, Peter (Tek Systems) wrote:
>  
>
>>Why do the anchor's borders on this page get clipped in IE6 (fine in FF)
>>
>>
>I don't know. Someone should tell them again that the inline formatting 
>still (IE7b2prev) is sort of wrong.
>  
>
>>and how can I prevent this?
>>
>>
>a.linkButton {position: relative;}. If this does not help on the real 
>page, you could try giving the parent {position: relative;}, too
>
Step 1:
p, td { background: #c0c0c0; }
Step 2:
p, td { background: #c0c0c0; line-height: 150%;} :-)
Step 3 / 4 / 5:
Enlarging browser fontsize in IE: o.k. / Smaller browser fontsize in IE: 
not yet./ Some more then 150% > line-height: 175%.

Guess a padding in em (in a.linkButton) will do it too (no time to test 
- 't is time to rest).
francky



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Re: [css-d] anchor border clipped in IE

[Cem Meric]

> Why do the anchor's borders on this page get clipped in IE6 (fine in FF)
> and how can I prevent this?
> http://www.msu.edu/~maziak/umg/temp.html

IE takes first and last paragraph differently than the rest. Due to page
view area limits. That's my understanding. You'll see it easier here;
http://kalkadoon.net/sandbox/border-clipped/clipped.html


But if you add extra padding to p and td it will match with the anchor.
http://kalkadoon.net/sandbox/border-clipped/clipped-not.html


-- 
Cem Meric | http://www.kalkadoon.net/ 
Kalkadoon Corporate Solutions


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[css-d] Simple Word Processor with CSS

[Edward Salm]

I am looking for a program that can modify and/or create HTML pages using an
existing external CSS file.

I am designing more and more websites for customers that need the ability to
do their own updates. These people are "average" in there computer literacy,
i.e. Microsoft Word, etc. I do not need or want a full-sized package due to
cost, complexity, and also restricting the ability for them to "mess it up."

No need for higher level functions. Just the ability to add or edit text,
and assign CSS tags. That is, unlike MS Word, I do not want the font or
formatting info in the HTML, just the CSS tags.

It's not that I don't need the billable hours, but many of these sites are
pro bono for non-profits and require frequent updating.

My customers use both Mac and Windows, so cross-platofrm, one for each, or
even something web/java based.

-- 
Edward Salm, PhD
Lambda Enterprises
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.LambdaEnt.com
213 483 4800


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him
absolutely no good."
-- Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)


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Re: [css-d] Simple Word Processor with CSS

[Cem Meric]

> I am looking for a program that can modify and/or create HTML pages using
> an existing external CSS file.

http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/ will do your job well with css, xhtml etc. you
can even define css files just for your CMS backend.


-- 
Cem Meric | http://www.kalkadoon.net/  
Kalkadoon Corporate Solutions


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Re: [css-d] anchor border clipped in IE

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Maziak, Peter (Tek Systems) wrote:
> Why do the anchor's borders on this page get clipped in IE6 (fine in
>  FF) and how can I prevent this? 
> http://www.msu.edu/~maziak/umg/temp.html

It's the old 'layering' bug in IE/win. Often mixed up with the
'hasLayout'[1] bug, but 'layering' and 'Layout' isn't the same thing.
Those two bugs just happens to strike "in pairs" quite often in IE's
rendering engine, which may make it a bit confusing.


A quick test by wrapping the whole thing in a div with a
background-color, and with or without a 1px padding, reveals that
'collapsing margins'[2] is part of IE's problem.
The first and last case is caused by IE getting the layering wrong when
the default margins on those paragraphs overshoot the invisible box
without a padding, while it's ok when those margins are forced back
inside the invisible box by the padding.

The anchor inside the table would need a similar prevention of
'collapsing margins' - inside the 'table td' itself.

IE6 gets it all wrong with regards to the CSS specs, but the effect of
the 'collapsing margins' on the case is clearly visible and pretty
identical in all browsers. It's just the default-size of those
paragraph-margins that may vary from browser to browser.


Anyway, Ingo has already "killed" the IE-bug by adding 'position:
relative' to the anchor. This affects the 'layering' in IE6 so the
overshooting (not really clipped) part of the anchor becomes visible on
top of the 'collapsed margins'. Then we can forget about those
'collapsing margins' with regard to the original case.

CSS sure is fun :-)

regards
Georg

(note to self: local 06/test_1800}

[1]http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
[2]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#collapsing-margins
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] CSS Positioning Question

[Ramone Kalsaw]

Is there a css scheme for positioning  so that it will lay
at the "absolute" bottom of the page, with every other element above it?

Re: www.biom.net:  In order to keep my footer from
rising up and covering content in my main section, I've had to add about 25
 tags at the bottom of the "leftbar" page element. (And even I know in
this age of CSS this is not the most "elegant" way to position page elements
[image: sleepy.gif]

(Note: Right now all page elements are working fine on IE6/MyIE2 (Windows),
not so good on Firefox (Windows: footer is covering icon graphic). And on
Mac it's like herding cats: Safari, Firefox, and Netscape are positioning
the footer at different levels.)

Can anyone offer some suggestions for anchoring a footer to the bottom of a
page?

THANKS!!!
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Re: [css-d] CSS Positioning Question

[Jim Davis]

Ramone,

Here is a link that shows a way to fix the position of both the header and
footer. You can adapt this to fix the position of the footer only.

http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/cssframes/

HTH,
Jim

On 3/8/06, Ramone Kalsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Is there a css scheme for positioning  so that it will
> lay
> at the "absolute" bottom of the page, with every other element above it?
>
>
>
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Re: [css-d] CSS Positioning Question

[Els]

Ramone Kalsaw wrote:
> Is there a css scheme for positioning  so
> that it will lay at the "absolute" bottom of the page, with
> every other element above it?

Bottom of the viewport: see Jim Davis' reply.
Bottom of the page:
Add 'clear:both;' tot the styles for the footer, and don't use 
position:absolute for the columns.
Position:absolute takes elements out of the normal flow, which 
means other elements don't "see" them. Clear:both on the footer 
will only help it to stay below floats. Not below absolute 
positioned elements.

> Re: www.biom.net:  In order to keep my
> footer from rising up and covering content in my main section,
> I've had to add about 25  tags at the bottom of the
> "leftbar" page element. (And even I know in this age of CSS
> this is not the most "elegant" way to position page elements
> [image: sleepy.gif]

It's not just not elegant, it doesn't work either :-)

> (Note: Right now all page elements are working fine on
> IE6/MyIE2 (Windows), not so good on Firefox (Windows: footer
> is covering icon graphic). And on Mac it's like herding cats:
> Safari, Firefox, and Netscape are positioning the footer at
> different levels.)

And in Opera both the green and the transparent parts of the 
footer are broken by the middle column.

-- 
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
http://locusoptimus.com/

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