Re: [css-d] Thoughts on this method

[Kenny Graham]

> and a ton of these little boxes
> are going to be floated all over the place

and, of course, if there are going to be more than one of these,
replace the ids with classes in both the html and css.
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Re: [css-d] Possible to create horizontal list dropdown menu?

[Craig Palenshus]

>This may help you:
>http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp
>
>---
>Regards,
>Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

Thanks, this actually does help a lot. I'm able to customize the look of it
all I want, but I can't figure out how to modify the functionality. 

For example: 
I'm trying to make the background behind the child links a color and have it
stretch to fill the entire width of the screen. AND I don't want that color
to go away when not hovering over a link. Should I just create a completely
separate element and color it and absolutely position it where I want it
with a z-index behind the TJKDropDownMenu class? (I tried this and can't get
my z-indexes to work properly. The new DIV is always "on top".)

Also, I want to make one of the main links "current" and have its child
links displayed by default and disappear and be temporarily replaced by
different child links when hovering over one of the other main menu items.

Craig Palenshus

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Re: [css-d] Thoughts on this method

[Kenny Graham]

> Any help optimizing this would be appreciated.

http://www.kennygraham.net/wsghelp/

Here's a bit of an optimization.  Uses three divs instead of five, and
all divs contain the text, instead of having empty ones.  It uses one
very wide (1600px) gif for both the left and center, but that gif is
still only 267 bytes, so file size definately isn't an issue.
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Re: [css-d] Border-bottom not appearing in IE

[David Laakso]

victor NOAGBODJI wrote:
>
> Border-bottom applied on DIVs refuses to appear in IE while appearing
> correctly in Firefox. I have tried to fix it but I couldn't.
>
> http://www.surprises.tg
> http://www.surprises.tg/templates/surprises.css
>   
Considering this is in middle of the body of the document,

#randPro{text-align:center;margin:20px auto;}
#randPro img{margin:0 0 2px 0;}

rather than in the head of the document-- or better yet in the css file 
where it belongs, it is a wonder anything shows up in
any browser. Other than that, the tiny telephones and tiny text, and the 
page itself all look the same to me in XP IE6.0, FF1.05.03, and Opera9b.
Correct the 14 or 15 markup errors(and couple of css errors). Validate 
the files and see if that brings up what you need or want.
Regards,
~davidLaakso


-- 
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Re: [css-d] Four that could be two

[Mike Dougherty]

I think the active state is used if you keyboard navigate the links without 
activating them.  The 
link that will be followed by pressing the space/enter key can be "active" 
without sharing the 
"hover" status.  True, many people navigate solely with the mouse.  As a 
general rule, I would 
suggest being extra explicit about your selectors and rules rather than relying 
on default 
behaviors.

On Fri, 26 May 2006 15:20:32 -0700
  "skye estes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 5/26/06, Scott Haneda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> no problem. also note that if your hover and active states are the same,
> only specifying rules for the hover state will be enough, as you have to be
> hovering over a link in order for it to be active.
> 
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Re: [css-d] Mousey!

[Jan Brasna]

Some uses of overflow: auto; and/or fixed stuff may break the wheel from 
time to time in various browsers.

-- 
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Re: [css-d] Fwd: CSS Browser Cache?

[Jan Brasna]

> I believe it is "shift+refresh" for FF and "ctrl+refresh" for IE

And simply hitting Refresh button twice in Safari.

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Re: [css-d] Four that could be two

[skye estes]

On 5/26/06, Scott Haneda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > should do it. note that you need to specify the class (.secondLinks)
> before
> > the state (:hover).
>
> Thanks, just what I needed


no problem. also note that if your hover and active states are the same,
only specifying rules for the hover state will be enough, as you have to be
hovering over a link in order for it to be active.

if, however, you want to do something different with the link, such as
change it's color when you click on it, a seperate rule for the active state
would be in order.


·skye·
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Re: [css-d] Four that could be two

[Scott Haneda]

> should do it. note that you need to specify the class (.secondLinks) before
> the state (:hover).

Thanks, just what I needed
-- 
-
Scott HanedaTel: 415.898.2602
 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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Re: [css-d] Four that could be two

[skye estes]

On 5/26/06, Scott Haneda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I see four total things here, but two are the same and the other two are
> the
> same, is there some way to merge these so there are only two blocks?
>
> a:visited.secondLinks {
> color: #FFF;
> text-decoration: none;
> }
>
> a:link.secondLinks {
> color: #FFF;
> text-decoration: none;
> }

becoming this code:
a.secondLinks, a.secondLinks:visited {
 color: #FFF;
text-decoration: none;
}

a:active.secondLinks {
> color: #FFF;
> text-decoration: underline;
> }
>
> a:hover.secondLinks {
> color: #FFF;
> text-decoration: underline;
> }

becoming this code:
a.secondLinks:hover,  a.secondLinks:active  {
color: #FFF;
text-decoration: underline;
}

should do it. note that you need to specify the class (.secondLinks) before
the state (:hover).

·skye·
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[css-d] Four that could be two

[Scott Haneda]

I see four total things here, but two are the same and the other two are the
same, is there some way to merge these so there are only two blocks?

a:visited.secondLinks {
color: #FFF;
text-decoration: none;
}

a:link.secondLinks {
color: #FFF;
text-decoration: none;
}

a:active.secondLinks {
color: #FFF;
text-decoration: underline;
}

a:hover.secondLinks {
color: #FFF;
text-decoration: underline;
}
-- 
-
Scott HanedaTel: 415.898.2602
 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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[css-d] Help needed positioning

[accent2]

Hi folks

Am still stuck on a page with valid xhtml 1.0 & valid css2. 

http://athene.riv.csu.edu.au/~wmccle01/resources/01index.html

It shows fine in IE but not in N7.

I have coloured the 'container' div blue to show its area. But N7 pushes it all 
skewiff. Any suggestions?
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Re: [css-d] Possible to create horizontal list dropdown menu?

[Thierry Koblentz]

> Please see this URL for what I've done so far:
> http://www.lesliegp.com/palenshus/proj07/ch07craig.html
>
> And one more thing I'm stuck on is how to make the blue bar of links
extend
> all the way to the right side of the browser window.
>
> Any help with the specific problems and/or where I can find good
> instructions on doing this would be great appreciated. Thanks!

This may help you:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [css-d] Fwd: CSS Browser Cache?

[Thierry Koblentz]

> > does the forced refresh help at all?  (holding down control while
> > hitting f5 or the refresh button)
> 
> 
> Isn't that shift-refresh?

I believe it is "shift+refresh" for FF and "ctrl+refresh" for IE

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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[css-d] Possible to create horizontal list dropdown menu?

[Craig Palenshus]

I'm relatively new to CSS and am trying to create a horizontal list /
horizontal drop-down menu. 

I have the first row of tabs rolling over and looking exactly like I want
them. 

I'm trying to add the 2nd row of tabs that should appear on rollover. I want
them to display in a 2nd horizontal row instead of vertical. I've found tons
of instruction on how to make them vertical, but I can't find any help for
making the 2nd row horizontal. Plus when I make the 2nd row horizontal, I
can't figure out how to position the links to the left under the list and
not expand the parent tab to the same width as the 2nd row of tabs.

Please see this URL for what I've done so far:
http://www.lesliegp.com/palenshus/proj07/ch07craig.html

And one more thing I'm stuck on is how to make the blue bar of links extend
all the way to the right side of the browser window.

Any help with the specific problems and/or where I can find good
instructions on doing this would be great appreciated. Thanks!

Craig Palenshus

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[css-d] Thoughts on this method

[Scott Haneda]

I have made a fluid box, two images, left top and right top, A few more divs
than I want.

Suggestions?  This is my first all CSS site, and a ton of these little boxes
are going to be floated all over the place, the idea being the type can
scale them around as need be.

Any help optimizing this would be appreciated.
-- 
-
Scott HanedaTel: 415.898.2602
 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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Re: [css-d] Mousey!

[Christy Collins]

I've found justified text to scroll with difficulty on Firefox -  
unrelated to the mouse
-C


On May 26, 2006, at 4:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Nope.
>
> -- 
> Marc Luzietti
> Flagship Project
> Bayview Financial, L.P.
> (305) 341-5624
>
>
> do you happen to have any very small repeating background graphics,
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Re: [css-d] Vertical alignment weirdness?

[David Dorward]

On 26/05/06, Ian Skinner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Any idea why the doctype would matter concerning the following CSS?

Some ... decided that it would be a good idea to use a person's choice
of Doctype (and thus perhaps their knowledge of markup, of the
knowledge of market of the person they copy/pasted from, etc) to
decide how well they know CSS.

[ insert 5 minutes of the sound of someone's forehead repeatedly
connecting to a desk ]

So some Doctypes will trigger Standards Mode where browsers try to do
The Right Thing as much possible, and some Doctypes will trigger
Quirks mode where they have deliberate mistakes (such as assuming that
when given an integer when a length is expected that it means "pixels"
or putting padding inside the width of an element).

> When used with a HTML transitional doctype it works as expected with
> the included image aligned to the bottom of the inline a element.

> When used with a XHTML strict doctype it does not line up with the bottom
> of the inline a element, but rather only lines up with the baseline.

Sounds like the old "Should the browser leave room for descenders"
issue. The vertical-align property applied to the image lets you
specify this explicitly.

> I have now tried this with other doctypes, it seems to be a matter of strict 
> vs. transitional.

It isn't that simple.
http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html

http://dorward.me.uk/www/bookmarklets/qors/ might also help.

-- 
David Dorward 
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[css-d] Fwd: CSS Browser Cache?

[Tom Livingston]

On 5/26/06, cj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> does the forced refresh help at all?  (holding down control while
> hitting f5 or the refresh button)


Isn't that shift-refresh?
-- 
-- 

Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] Mousey!

[MarcLuzietti]

Nope.

-- 
Marc Luzietti
Flagship Project
Bayview Financial, L.P.
(305) 341-5624


do you happen to have any very small repeating background graphics,
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Re: [css-d] Mousey!

[cj]

do you happen to have any very small repeating background graphics,
such as 1px * 1px?  if so, the browser has to do a lot of work to fill
in the area that graphic covers, and making that background 10x10 or
20x20 or so will drastically decrease the scrolling hesitancy.
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Re: [css-d] Elastic layouts: want to confirm

[Felix Miata]

On 06/05/26 13:17 (GMT-0400) Bill Brown apparently typed:

> So, now I'm wondering...how does one define "breakage"? IMHO, if we try to
> account for every conceivable variable, including browser inconsistencies, 
> every
> aspect of accessibility and the like, one is left with a completely unstyled
> page. In web design, as in life, one must take risks and in so doing, runs the
> risk of failure. The question I think is where the line of failure is drawn?

Seems to me that has to be a judgement call. Since 12pt is the size most
real web using people prefer, a site probably should accomodate
somewhere between 150% and 200% of that at least, somewhere between 18pt
real and 24pt real. With typical sites trying to cram as much as
possible above the fold in an area less than 800px wide, 24pt may be
unrealistic in many or most cases, yet something to try and shoot for
anyway. If a site you're working on is one of those 76% or 12px body
sites, probably 200% should be minimum. That nets 150%, typically 18pt
nominal.
-- 
"All have sinned & fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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Re: [css-d] Div with text, vertical align, again.. {BUMP}

[Scott Haneda]

> I have read every vertical align thing out there, setting to table display
> is not something I am into:
> 
> 
> I like how if I + the font size, the box grows with it, and all is well.  I
> was the white type to be sucked to the bottom, not the top, or even better,
> in the middle.
> 
> Any way I try it, the type eventually truncates on enlargement.

-- 
-
Scott HanedaTel: 415.898.2602
 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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[css-d] Mousey!

[MarcLuzietti]

Is there some setting CSS that is known to screw up scrolling via mouse 
wheel? I have two different skins for an app, and one scrolls fine, while 
the other does haltingly and incompletely.

-- 
Marc Luzietti
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Bayview Financial, L.P.
(305) 341-5624
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Re: [css-d] Elastic layouts: want to confirm

[Felix Miata]

On 06/05/26 16:26 (GMT+0100) Nick Fitzsimons apparently typed:

> Tom Livingston wrote:

 idea for accessibility, it often leads to lots of horizontal scrolling

>> What about a width limit (no, not a fixed width site) on the width of
>> the main content in relation to the rest of the page (like an article)
>> so as to allow the font scaling to occur vertically instead of
>> horizontally? This seems like a better solution to me.

>> Like this maybe?

>> http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/

>> Scale up. No horiz scroll.

> In Firefox, press Ctrl-+ eight times. The page breaks, with content 
> overlapping and unreadable.

You're virtually guaranteed to make every page useless in FF with 8
times Ctrl++. That's a 1600% zoom level. If you started in an 800px wide
window with 10px text, that much zoom would permit as little as 10
characters per full screen width line to fit. Try it here:
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/zoomlevel.html With anything much bigger
than 10px to start with, you'd be lucky to see more than half the words
whole on one line at that zoom level.
-- 
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 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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Re: [css-d] CSS Form Layout Problem

[Niklas Kanthak]

> I deleted the wrapping div of the form-tag. You don't need it! Think
> of the fieldset-tag as a wrapper. Same here: Reduce your HTML to the
> minimum! 
> http://nyslittreedata.advantex.net/index.cfm/fuseaction/Accounts.LoginForm.cfm
>  does not validate to html 4.01 strict, resulting in the following
> validation errors: That's why I've left the DIVs around the form in
> place.

Hello Marc,

one solution: wrap the hidden input fields (you can also push it into
the existing fieldset) into a dummy  constuction.

When adapting the form to XHTML 1.0 the validator doesn't mind the
missing legend-tags. Strange. I dunno why the validation of HTML 4.01
strict is more sensitive in that case. Somebody any idea?

Sure this is far more overhead than a simple , defining some
classes might make it more elegant. You decide.



  


...




 

> One last (new) question... Is there any way to get the content within
> the #postContentWrapper div to float at the bottom of the white
> content area that we've just "propped"?

Yes, just move the two IE hack classes from mainContent right into:


...



Niklas
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Re: [css-d] Display:none and SEO

[Jan Brasna]

Additionally, to an off-list response:

Jonathan Berry napsal(a) dne 26.5.2006 20:40:
> What about alternate content for Flash sites? I figured Google would be 
> doing this, but it's ridiculous.

Well, for Flash... Forget about display: none. Go for some 
degrading/alternatives:




-- 
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Re: [css-d] CSS Browser Cache?

[Brett Leber]

On 5/26/2006 4:13 PM, Jan Brasna wrote:
>>> Eg. by adding a "timestamp" to the stylesheet's URI:
>>>
>>> > Could you expand on this, or link to an article that explains why this 
>> works? I'm not familiar with the '?' suffix (unless we're using PHP, of 
>> course). Is it standard?
> 
> Brett, "?" is not a suffix. It's a query-string separator, see 
> appropriate RFCs on this. It's the same as the PHP mentioned by you - 
> the file requested is the "style.css" with the parameter. However, as 
> long as it's just a vanilla CSS, the parameter is simply discarded. For 
> the server. Not for the client - different parameter, different cache, 
> different request. So when you change the parameter, the browser 
> requests the fresh version.

Thanks for the clarification. Nifty, useful trick ;) I think I'd heard 
of it before, but had no idea why it worked.

Thanks,

Brett
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Re: [css-d] CSS Browser Cache?

[Jan Brasna]

>> Eg. by adding a "timestamp" to the stylesheet's URI:
>>
>>  
> Could you expand on this, or link to an article that explains why this 
> works? I'm not familiar with the '?' suffix (unless we're using PHP, of 
> course). Is it standard?

Brett, "?" is not a suffix. It's a query-string separator, see 
appropriate RFCs on this. It's the same as the PHP mentioned by you - 
the file requested is the "style.css" with the parameter. However, as 
long as it's just a vanilla CSS, the parameter is simply discarded. For 
the server. Not for the client - different parameter, different cache, 
different request. So when you change the parameter, the browser 
requests the fresh version.

-- 
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net
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Re: [css-d] CSS Browser Cache?

[cj]

does the forced refresh help at all?  (holding down control while
hitting f5 or the refresh button)
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Re: [css-d] CSS Browser Cache?

[Brett Leber]

On 5/26/2006 3:51 PM, Jan Brasna wrote:
> Eg. by adding a "timestamp" to the stylesheet's URI:
> 
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Re: [css-d] CSS Browser Cache?

[Jan Brasna]

Eg. by adding a "timestamp" to the stylesheet's URI:

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Re: [css-d] baby questions: images and aligning text right and left in div box

[Roger Roelofs]

smithj7,

On May 25, 2006, at 12:30 PM, smithj7 wrote:

> How is one to align images and assign properties like border= "0"?  Is
> it in a div?  I searched everywhere using css image property and so
> forth and found nothing so I'm guessing such stuff is done another  
> way.
The first thing to keep in mind is that you want to keep content and  
presentation of that content as separate as possible given current  
browser constraints.  So, the css goes in an external file and you  
use a css selector to 'target' the content on your page.  For  
example,  You have a myflorida logo in the upper left corner.  You  
can write a css selector like

#logo .floatleft img { border: 0; }

I'd suggest thinking about the content first.  Forget about how it  
looks and think about how the items group together on the page.  If  
the page makes sense with css turned off, you are more than half-way  
there.  After the html is close to final form, it is much easier to  
design the css selectors that will target the parts of the page  
efficiently.  Pick ids and class names the describe the content  
rather than describe how you want it styled.

> Also in one box I hope to align some text right and some text left.  I
> found on the list discussion page an example of doing this with a  
> link,
> but my text isn't a link.  Maybe this is not possible.
It doesn't have to be a link.  Any element will work fine.  Just pick  
the one that fits the content.

> The current page is http://dbs.myflorida.com/
> My tableless version is at http://dbs.myflorida.com/tablelessI.shtml

Roger,
-- 
Roger Roelofs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[css-d] CSS Browser Cache?

[xtiandc]

When I'm developing a site, I make frequent changes to a master CSS file. I am 
dealing with some dynamic content, so I must upload and develop on a live 
server/staging area. My question is: how do I ensure that the browsers I am 
using will display my site using the latest edits from the CSS file? That is, 
is there a way to force the major browsers to reload a fresh CSS with each 
refresh? This can be quite vexing...

Thanks!
Christian.

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Re: [css-d] Elastic layouts: want to confirm

[tedd]

>So, now I'm wondering...how does one define "breakage"? IMHO, if we try to
>account for every conceivable variable, including browser 
>inconsistencies, every
>aspect of accessibility and the like, one is left with a completely unstyled
>page. In web design, as in life, one must take risks and in so doing, runs the
>risk of failure. The question I think is where the line of failure is drawn?
>
>--Bill

Bill:

Draw the "line of failure" wherever you feel comfortable -- no real rules.

Some sites break and others don't -- check the ones below.

tedd
-- 

http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
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Re: [css-d] Elastic layouts: want to confirm

[David Laakso]

Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
> Tom Livingston wrote:
>   
 idea for accessibility, it often leads to lots of horizontal scrolling
 
>> What about a width limit (no, not a fixed width site) on the width of
>> the main content in relation to the rest of the page (like an article)
>> so as to allow the font scaling to occur vertically instead of
>> horizontally? This seems like a better solution to me.
>>
>> Like this maybe?
>>
>> http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/
>>
>> Scale up. No horiz scroll.
>>
>> 
>
> In Firefox, press Ctrl-+ eight times. The page breaks, with content 
> overlapping and unreadable.
>
> In case you're wondering whether anybody would use such extreme 
> enlargement, the answer is yes, some people do. A friend of mine with a 
> severe visual impairment resulting from diabetes needs at least that 
> level of enlargement, and accepts as a normal part of life that he has 
> to scroll horizontally. Your page would simply be unusable by him. 
>   
Not necessarily. And I have no clue what this has to do with CSS, but 
have you, or /your friend/, tried that particular page at 800% in Opera9b?
Personally I hate horizontal scroll bars...
> (Well, he'd have to switch over to his screen reader, but that only 
> currently works with IE, so he'd have to fire that up, then paste the 
> URL... you get the idea.)
>
> HTH,
>
> Nick.
>   
~dL

-- 
http://www.dlaakso.com/gustave/

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[css-d] Vertical alignment weirdness?

[Ian Skinner]

Any idea why the doctype would matter concerning the following CSS?

div#sideNav a:before
{
content: url(left_curve.gif);
vertical-align: bottom;
}

I have now tried this with other doctypes, it seems to be a matter of strict 
vs. transitional.  The output displays as I would expect in HTML and XHTML 
transitional, but does not display as I would expect, with the generated 
content staying on the baseline, in HTML and XHTML strict.

Is there some deference in the behavior of vertical-align in strict mode?


--
Ian Skinner
Web Programmer
BloodSource
www.BloodSource.org
Sacramento, CA

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Re: [css-d] CSS Validator Warnings

[Marc Funaro]

Sorry to waste your bandwidth... I found my own answer after digging just a
little further:

"If you don't specify color and  background-color at the same level of
specifity, your style sheet might clash with user style sheets. To avoid
this, specify always both of them, see Section 9.1 "Color Contrast" in the
W3C Note "CSS Techniques for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0" or
the article CSS Color Issues by the CSS Pointers Group for a discussion."

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[css-d] CSS Validator Warnings

[Marc Funaro]

Can warnings like these be safely ignored when validating a CSS file?

* Line : 9 (Level : 1) You have no color with your background-color :
BODY
* Line : 14 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color : A
* Line : 35 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
A:visited
* Line : 43 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
H1
* Line : 52 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color : P
* Line : 61 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
fieldset
* Line : 228 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
#topNav ul li
* Line : 260 (Level : 1) You have no color with your background-color :
#twoColumnBody
* Line : 317 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
#leftNav ul li
* Line : 335 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
#leftNav ul li ul li
* Line : 352 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
#leftNav ul li ul li ul li
* Line : 388 (Level : 1) You have no color with your background-color :
#mainContent
* Line : 414 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
#contentText
* Line : 470 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
#bottomNav ul li
* Line : 480 (Level : 1) You have no color with your background-color :
#footer
* Line : 491 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
#footerCredits
* Line : 498 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
.OptFormFieldLabel
* Line : 503 (Level : 1) You have no background-color with your color :
.ReqFormFieldLabel

Why such warnings about colors?

m

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Re: [css-d] Display:none and SEO

[Jan Brasna]

Matt Cutts (Google):

"I don’t recommend that people use CSS to hide text"
   -- 

Aaron Wall:

"If Google are stupid enough to try and catch spammers by looking for 
display: none; [...] then they'd dump a whole boatload of good sites."
   -- 

-- 
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net
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Re: [css-d] Major Alignment Issue

[Ed Seehouse]

On 5/26/06, Steve LaBadie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This page works fine in IE, but not in any of the others.  What do I
> need to do to fix this???

You need to change your whole design approach.  You are doing about
everything wrong for working with CSS.  First, no document type on
your html means all browsers will work in "quirks" mode and just about
anything can result.  Do a google search on "doctype" and read some of
the result pages, particularly this one:
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/doctype/

You should design for Firefox or other reasonably standards compliant
browser, *not* for IE.

IE may look right to you, but it is actually wrong.  IE is a five year
old behind the times browser that does many things wrong when applying
CSS.  It may look right, but it is lying to you.

First, get a doctype.  Next, validate your html and make sure it
valid.  CSS for positioning is predicated on having valid html to work
with.  Your site has dozens of html coding errors.

I could go on, but that's a start.

-- 
Ed Seedhouse
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Re: [css-d] baby questions: images and aligning text right and left in div box

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

smithj7 wrote:
> How is one to align images and assign properties like border= "0"?  Is
> it in a div?  I searched everywhere using css image property and so
> forth and found nothing so I'm guessing such stuff is done another way.
>   

Borders can be set in CSS. So can alignment, but I don't know what you 
are wanting to align images *to*. Other content? The top of their 
containing elements? The right side of the screen? Each would require 
different CSS, so we'll need more info to help you.

>  
> Also in one box I hope to align some text right and some text left.  I
> found on the list discussion page an example of doing this with a link,
> but my text isn't a link.  Maybe this is not possible. 
>   

It's quite possible:
http://www.communitymx.com/abstract.cfm?cid=529B0

> I have to make my work index page look more or less like the parent
> requirements.  
>  
> The current page is http://dbs.myflorida.com/
>  
> My tableless version is actually looking better than the table version
> IMHO (at least with the browers - i'm using will tackle browers issues
> after I better understand css with forms and images).  It is at
> http://dbs.myflorida.com/tablelessI.shtml

Looking good based on a brief peek.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Is it impossible to set margin to h1, h2... el ?

[Donna Casey]

> Your margin under the h1 is the correct size. You've set it to 1em, and 
> a 1em margin on a significantly bigger h1 is going to be bigger than on 
> the smaller p. If you want a smaller margin there, set it to a smaller 
> value, like .5em.

If your h1 element is set to 1.4em and that (through math) equates to 
14px... and your p element is set to 1em and that equates to 10px, then 
1em margin (top, bottom or whatever) will equal 14px for the heading and 
10px for the paragraph. Remember, it's the font-size of each element 
that determines what 1em equals... use px instead if you must have the 
same space exactly beneath both elements... otherwise, the math could 
get ugly.
On the other hand, using em allows the spacing to be proportional to the 
  font-size of the element, so I wouldn't worry about it, but do what 
Zoe said, and make a "proportional" adjustments for your heading and 
paragraph margins.

And don't forget that vertically adjacent margin collapse can intervene 
to make things appear unexpectedly different from what you planned 
(vertically adjacent margins collapse to the larger of the two values, 
even with nested elements, if no border or content appears between them)


Donna Casey
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[css-d] ADMIN Re: Is the list down?

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Tony Crockford wrote:
> No messages for ages, checked all my settings, last resort to post 
> myself and see...
>
>   

No one *ever* do this. If you all of a sudden aren't getting messages, 
yes, there is a 99% chance the list is down. Be patient and it will come 
back up. If you really have to know what is going on, email the list 
admin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead of 8000 people who 
can't help you. That should be the last resort with all list problems.

Tony, I'm not picking on you, but every time the list goes down at least 
one person does this, and if we don't send a reminder every time not to 
do this it will just get worse and worse.

Thanks,
Zoe Gillenwater
css-d list moderator

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Re: [css-d] Laying out uls horizontally w/o float

[john . e . guchemand]

Yes, but that is not what I am after.  I mean I don't want to lis to be
displayed inline; I want the uls to be displayed inline.

Thanks,

John


   
 "Justin Reid" 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 du>To 
 Sent by:  "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"   
 justin.ryan.reid@ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
 gmail.com  cc 
   css-d@lists.css-discuss.org 
   Subject 
 05/26/2006 01:48  Re: [css-d] Laying out uls  
 PMhorizontally w/o float  
   
   
   
   
   
   




> And what I want is to have the uls displayed across the screen
> horizontally, instead of falling one under the other (vertically).  I
have
> tried
> ul {display:inline;}
> but it doesn't seem to do anything.

And did you also try
li  {display:inline;} ?


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[css-d] Vertical alignment weirdness?

[Ian Skinner]

Any idea why the doctype would matter concerning the following CSS?

div#sideNav a:before
{
content: url(left_curve.gif);
vertical-align: bottom;
}

When used with a HTML transitional doctype it works as expected with the 
included image aligned to the bottom of the inline a element.

When used with a XHTML strict doctype it does not line up with the bottom of 
the inline a element, but rather only lines up with the baseline.

I have not tried other doctypes yet.  This has been tested in Firefox; it 
obviously does not apply in IE since IE currently does not know how to handle 
generated CSS content.

TIA

--
Ian Skinner
Web Programmer
BloodSource
www.BloodSource.org
Sacramento, CA

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Re: [css-d] Laying out uls horizontally w/o float

[Justin Reid]

> And what I want is to have the uls displayed across the screen
> horizontally, instead of falling one under the other (vertically).  I have
> tried
> ul {display:inline;}
> but it doesn't seem to do anything.

And did you also try
li  {display:inline;} ?
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[css-d] Major Alignment Issue

[Steve LaBadie]

This page works fine in IE, but not in any of the others.  What do I
need to do to fix this???
 
 
Help :(
 
http://www3.esu.edu/beta/aboutesu/index.htm
 
http://www3.esu.edu/beta/css/mainstyle.css
 
Steve LaBadie, Web Manager 
East Stroudsburg University 
200 Prospect St. 
East Stroudsburg, Pa 18301-2999 
570-422-3999 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
http://www.esu.edu  
 
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Re: [css-d] CSS Form Layout Problem

[Marc Funaro]

Niklas,

Thanks so much - yes, you've reminded me to be more careful when trying new 
statements, to remove them or review them after I have something workable!  It 
was messy for sure ;)

The prop/clear seems to be working now, and looks just like the old "1px 
transparent gif spacer image" hack we've been using with tables for years.  
(Funny how the same types of hacks are necessary, even when we've gone from 
tables to CSS for layouts!)

REGARDING:


>   I deleted the wrapping div of the form-tag. You don't 
>   need it! Think of the fieldset-tag as a wrapper. Same 
>   here: Reduce your HTML to the minimum!
>   
>   #accountLink {
>   /*float: right;*/
>   }


if I remove the DIV tags, the HTML for:

http://nyslittreedata.advantex.net/index.cfm/fuseaction/Accounts.LoginForm.cfm

does not validate to html 4.01 strict, resulting in the following validation 
errors:



This page is not Valid HTML 4.01 Strict!

Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser.

   1. Error Line 120 column 66: document type does not allow element "INPUT" 
here; missing one of "P", "H1", "H2", "H3", "H4", "H5", "H6", "PRE", "DIV", 
"ADDRESS" start-tag.

  ...idden" name="fuseaction" value="Accounts.procLogin">   

  The mentioned element is not allowed to appear in the context in which 
you've placed it; the other mentioned elements are the only ones that are both 
allowed there and can contain the element mentioned. This might mean that you 
need a containing element, or possibly that you've forgotten to close a 
previous element.

  One possible cause for this message is that you have attempted to put a 
block-level element (such as "" or "") inside an inline element (such 
as "", "", or "").

  ✉
   2. Error Line 133 column 97: document type does not allow element "INPUT" 
here; missing one of "P", "H1", "H2", "H3", "H4", "H5", "H6", "PRE", "DIV", 
"ADDRESS" start-tag.

  ...cLogin'; document.loginform.submit()"> 




That's why I've left the DIVs around the form in place.

One last (new) question... Is there any way to get the content within the 
#postContentWrapper div to float at the bottom of the white content area that 
we've just "propped"?

Again, I appreciate your help!!  Once this project is done, I'm going to grab a 
good book on CSS and spend quality time filling in all these gaps in my 
understanding of CSS layouts.  It's the exceptions and IE hacks that are just 
driving me insane... I don't know how ANYBODY remembers all this -- at the 
moment it's just a bit overwhelming, especially on a deadline :)

Thanks again,

Marc


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Re: [css-d] Elastic layouts: want to confirm

[Bill Brown]

> In Firefox, press Ctrl-+ eight times. The page breaks, with 
> content overlapping and unreadable.
> 
> In case you're wondering whether anybody would use such 
> extreme enlargement, the answer is yes, some people do. A 
> friend of mine with a severe visual impairment resulting from 
> diabetes needs at least that level of enlargement, and 
> accepts as a normal part of life that he has to scroll 
> horizontally. Your page would simply be unusable by him. 
> (Well, he'd have to switch over to his screen reader, but 
> that only currently works with IE, so he'd have to fire that 
> up, then paste the URL... you get the idea.)
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Nick.
> --
> Nick Fitzsimons
> http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/

Just asking out of sleep-deprived curiosity, and because the issue has been
raised with regard to my own site...what do you consider "breaking"? I went to
your site and pressed ctrl + eight times and while I don't get scrollbars, the
text is so large that it becomes one word to a line and five words to a screen.
I did NOT do this so I could come here and call you a hypocrit, I was honestly
just curious and the link to your site (in your sig) was the first I clicked.
Even Google (granted, not a site of CSS wizardry) is unreadable for me at zoom
factor eight.

So, now I'm wondering...how does one define "breakage"? IMHO, if we try to
account for every conceivable variable, including browser inconsistencies, every
aspect of accessibility and the like, one is left with a completely unstyled
page. In web design, as in life, one must take risks and in so doing, runs the
risk of failure. The question I think is where the line of failure is drawn?

--Bill




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[css-d] Laying out uls horizontally w/o float

[john . e . guchemand]

Hello all,

You all have been extremely helpful in the past, and I have my fingers
crossed for this one.  I hope I am just missing something.

I have the following html (for an orgchart - have changed the info to
protect the innocent):


0100  Rm  444  Administrative Office
Chief: Hewey Lewy



0400  Rm  436
Francisco Barney
Sam Sancisco



0300  Rm  A4  Administrative Office #2
Sec: Bobby Fischer
621-8142
Tarby L.
Frank Manny



And what I want is to have the uls displayed across the screen
horizontally, instead of falling one under the other (vertically).  I have
tried
ul {display:inline;}
but it doesn't seem to do anything.  I have also tried wrapping a div
(id="container") around the the uls, and then using the following
#container ul {display:inline;}
but also to no avail.

I am looking for a no-float solution.  I am avoiding floats on purpose
because of difficulties when printing.

Basically I just want to display these block elements inline.  Please tell
me what I am missing (it's probably right under my nose...).

Thank you in advance,

John

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[css-d] JS Scroller with Pure CSS Drop Down Menu Help

[xtiandc]

I'm about to go insane attemping to implement a vertical js scroller containing 
a css drop down menu. I've toyed with overflow, z-index, you name it...but I 
just can't get this to work correctly.

Here's what I'm dealing with:
http://demo.wfp.com/test3.asp

That's the page, with the javascript function in place.

Scroll over the menu items...you can see that the child menu cuts off and is 
not visible.

This is the page sans calling the js, same structure; you can see the hover 
behavior working as it should:
http://demo.wfp.com/test4.asp

I thought about canning the css drop down and attempting the same thing with a 
tooltip...but the same clipping issue occurs. 

Does this make sense? Any one have any ideas what I'm doing wrong? My undying 
gratitude to the person who can solve my issue!

Thanks in advance!

Christian Scanniello.

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Re: [css-d] Header problems

[Mark Fellowes]


Tom , 
It is transparent. Although even bringing up just the graphic in FF doesn't 
show that.  I did a little digging around, it looks like there maybe a js 
solution to the png transparency issue.  And I think transparencies are working 
in IE7, problem just exists in 6.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 4:17 PM -07:00
To: Mark Fellowes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: CSS List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [css-d] Header problems

>IE, the height is off  and the background graphic has a gray background.


Is the PNG transparent? Sounds like it. IE won't do trans PNGs


-- 

Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] Site-check

[David Laakso]

Eystein Alnaes wrote:
> I'd just like to know how this looks on Windows, perticulary on IE. Tryed to
> add IE/win filters/hacks from memory, but aren't able to check it without my
> windowsbox.
>
> I've used two things in perticular:
> - min-width for IE with css only (please don't mind the extra markup)
> - display: block; / width: 100%; for the a-tags in the meny.
>
> http://www.eystein.no/test/OR/fluid.html
>
>   
A cursory look only:
The menu seems ok in IE6.0 in XP. However, it looks much the same as the 
Opera8.5 capture in Opera9b in XP.
The min-width is holding at 1280. But, IMO, it is fragile. Your 
content-text font size is very small. Those who need a healthy font-zoom 
for readability at 1280 and up, will /easily/ break the width to a 
horizontal scrollbar-- as I did in IE(accessibility mode--ignore font 
sizes--font-size 'largest'). Not the end of the world, for sure-- but 
something to be aware of.
30 captures:

Regards,
~davidLaakso

-- 
http://www.dlaakso.com/gustave/

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Re: [css-d] Is it impossible to set margin to h1, h2... el ?

[Tom Livingston]

> While this will work, I don't recommend it. My method for margins around
> headings and paragraphs has always been to remove top margins on all
> text and just set bottom margins on everything. This allows me to
> control the spacing between headings and the following paragraphs
> without needing child selectors or classes. I've never needed something
> more intricate (though I acknowledge others will at times -- try
> something simple like this first though).
>
> Zoe

I'll try again now the messages are coming in again

Zoe,

I am trying this here:

66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index.html

but I am getting double margin (?) under the h1, in FF(Mac) and IE6.

What am I missing?


--

Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] Header problems

[Tom Livingston]

>IE, the height is off  and the background graphic has a gray background.


Is the PNG transparent? Sounds like it. IE won't do trans PNGs


-- 

Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com
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[css-d] Display:none and SEO

[Jonathan Berry]

Hello all, I was wondering if using display: none to hide alternate content
would cause search engines to pass over your page. If you have any online
resources or other advice I would appreciate it.

-- 
Jonathan Berry, M.A.
IT Consultant
619.306.1712(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [css-d] Overriding cellspacing in IE

[Justin Reid]

> I may well be inheriting tables from upstream and am writing tests to nullify 
> cellpadding, cellspacing, border, width, and align through CSS. I can nullify 
> all of the above with FF1.5 on a PC, but cannot override cellspacing for IE6.


have you tried setting the border-collapse property?

table { border-collapse: collapse; }

-Justin
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Re: [css-d] How To: Make links work when using AlphaLoader

[Ingo Chao]

cj wrote:

> the fix: i actually have no idea why what i did works.  however you
> can see my fixed version alongside a non-fixed version at
> http://sltclan.com/images/cj/fix-ie-loader/default.html
> 
> method #1 - not so great, but better than nothing:
> using "text-align: right;" on the link will work *most* of the time,
> but there is a slight delay when you mouse over the links.  you can
> see this live on the right column of the non-fixed area.  sometimes it
> stops working though, and i have no idea why.  that's ms for ya!
> 
> method #2 - requires a bit of markup, but much better:
> setting a parent to "text-align: right;" fixes it much better when i
> put "position: relative;height: 0;" on the actual link.  i don't know
> how i came up with this, but i have seen absolutely no problems with
> my links when i put this into effect.  you can even get all text to
> line back up on the left hand side after having set the parent to
> align right, which i show on the left column.


Thanks for sharing this interesting fix.

position:relative + z-index on the links is sometimes another option, 
but not when the parent with the filter is positioned absolutely. Here, 
an additional wrapper was required.

http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/tmp/alphatransparency.html

If your method does work for links on absolutely positioned filtered 
elements, this would be a big step. Can't test it on my Installation 
with IE6 side-by-side IE7 (where the filter does not work at all) at the 
moment.


Ingo

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[css-d] Float Layout Help

[Justin Reid]

Hello all,
I'm hoping someone on this list can help me with a layout issue that
uses floats. Really, what I'd like is this page,
http://www.justinreid.com/tests/test.htm, to look in FireFox what it
looks like in IE.

Meaning, I'd like the "sample items" to float to the right of the main
content area, and as the page contracts, the sample items stack on top
of one another until there's not enough room for even a single sample
item. At that point all the sample items drop below the main content
area.

Can anyone figure this out?

Thanks in advance,
-Justin
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Re: [css-d] Not quite the peekaboo-bug? (IE6)[SOLVED]

[Eystein Alnaes]

Well, my bad. It was the peekaboo. I was just looking in the wrong place. So
adding height:1%; for IE fixed it.

Eystein

Upon loading the layout is mixed up, but try hovering over the left-column
> links. Layout fixed!
>
> < http://www.eystein.no/test/OR/fluid.html>
> 
>
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Re: [css-d] Elastic layouts: want to confirm

[Nick Fitzsimons]

Tom Livingston wrote:
>>> idea for accessibility, it often leads to lots of horizontal scrolling
> 
> What about a width limit (no, not a fixed width site) on the width of
> the main content in relation to the rest of the page (like an article)
> so as to allow the font scaling to occur vertically instead of
> horizontally? This seems like a better solution to me.
> 
> Like this maybe?
> 
> http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/
> 
> Scale up. No horiz scroll.
> 

In Firefox, press Ctrl-+ eight times. The page breaks, with content 
overlapping and unreadable.

In case you're wondering whether anybody would use such extreme 
enlargement, the answer is yes, some people do. A friend of mine with a 
severe visual impairment resulting from diabetes needs at least that 
level of enlargement, and accepts as a normal part of life that he has 
to scroll horizontally. Your page would simply be unusable by him. 
(Well, he'd have to switch over to his screen reader, but that only 
currently works with IE, so he'd have to fire that up, then paste the 
URL... you get the idea.)

HTH,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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[css-d] Not quite the peekaboo-bug? (IE6)

[Eystein Alnaes]

I'm having an interesting time trying to figure this one out.
Upon loading the layout is mixed up, but try hovering over the left-column
links. Layout fixed! Why? I don't know.




Eystein.
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Re: [css-d] how to set all elements in a div?

[cj]

that will work if the div isn't inside of something else that has had
the font sized changed.  for example if you had:









body {font-size: 1em;}
.layer1 {font-size: .75em;}
.layer2 {font-size: 2em;}
.layer2 * {font-size: 1em;}

: then all your elements are going to be (1 * .75 = .75em) -> (.75em *
2em = 1.5em) -> (1.5em * 1em = 1.5em) -> 1.5em.  if you want to set it
specifically back to the original em, you could either calculate all
that changing back out, or set the font size using a word, such as
"font-size: medium;".


[someone correct me if i'm wrong, please.  you'd fix my understanding as well.]
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[css-d] Is the list down?

[Tony Crockford]

No messages for ages, checked all my settings, last resort to post 
myself and see...



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[css-d] Two ?Simple Problems

[Tim Gaunt \(The Site Doctor\)]

Hi,

I'm hoping the Guru's of the CSS Discuss can help me out on this page:
http://missmays.com/csstests2.htm

1st and foremost is the issue of the category headings -they work fine in
IE6 but in FF1.5 the second category starts under the special offers list. I
know why (the second category has an additional clearLeft class -without it,
the page looks like this: http://missmays.com/csstests2-noclear.htm). Is
there any way around this? I want FF to look like IE...

2nd -I'm concerned the category the list code will affect the SEO, is there
a better way of making the whole  tag clickable without hiding the text?

Many thanks in advance.

Tim

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Re: [css-d] Is it impossible to set margin to h1, h2... el ?

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Tom Livingston wrote:
>> While this will work, I don't recommend it. My method for margins around
>> headings and paragraphs has always been to remove top margins on all
>> text and just set bottom margins on everything. This allows me to
>> control the spacing between headings and the following paragraphs
>> without needing child selectors or classes. I've never needed something
>> more intricate (though I acknowledge others will at times -- try
>> something simple like this first though).
>>
>> Zoe
>
> Zoe,
>
> I am trying this here:
>
> 66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index.html
>
> but I am getting double margin (?) under the h1, in FF(Mac) and IE6.
>
> What am I missing?
>

Your margin under the h1 is the correct size. You've set it to 1em, and 
a 1em margin on a significantly bigger h1 is going to be bigger than on 
the smaller p. If you want a smaller margin there, set it to a smaller 
value, like .5em.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] How to float definition list items?

[lists]

> --
> From: "Paul Annett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [css-d] How to float definition list items?
> This definition list looks great in Firefox, but the positioning of the
> definitions is consistently not what I want across all versions of IE.
> http://www.nice-design.co.uk/dl/
>
> Which browser has it right? Do you have any ideas on how to make IE's
> presentation look like Firefox's?



Hi Paul,

I'll apologise in advance to all for the longish post.

As it happens I've just tackled a similar problem myself on a project I am
working on.

I had initially just come up with a very simple solution of putting a
float on the dt and setting a width, and it all seemed to work fine,
however as I started to add more complexity to the templates, began to
find that using short filler text probably wasn't the most robust testing
method.

As soon as we started adding live data, where the title or definition, or
both, ran over more than one line, we started to get all kinds of weird
floats. IE was a relatively easy fix. Adding a "clear: left" to the dt
(together with some IE specific margins etc), tended to fix it. Firefox
was problematic - it produced some strange floats that I've only today
managed to deal with.

I would say it's far more likely Firefox is getting it right, from what I
understand of floats - nonetheless, it doesn't mean you're not going to
have to work around them.

This is the most simple implementation - used by most of the project, a
single dt and dd inside a dl, for each line item:


It uses this CSS:
dl.section { margin: 0; padding: .25em 0 .45em 0; clear: left; display:
block; width: 100%; }
dl[class=section]:lang(en) { float: left; }

fieldset dl.section dt { margin: 0; padding: .25em 0 .1em .5em; width:
11em; float: left; clear: left; font-weight: bold; }
* html fieldset dl.section dt { clear: left; }
fieldset dl.section dd { margin: 0 0 0 .5em; padding: 0 0 .1em 0; width:
50%; float: left; display: block; /*border: 1px solid #000;*/ }
* html fieldset dl.section dd { margin: 0 0 .25em 11.5em; padding: .25em 0
0 0; width: auto; float: none; }
fieldset dl.section dd+dd { margin: 0 0 0 12em; border: 1px solid #c00; }



I then had to further refine this for another component of the site, which
uses a more sophisticated set up:


It uses this CSS:


fieldset.fdf dl.fdf dt { margin: 0 5em 0 2.7em; padding: .25em 0 0 .5em;
width: 11em; float: left; clear: left; font-weight: bold; }
* html fieldset.fdf dl.fdf dt { margin: 0 5em 0 1.5em; clear: left; }
fieldset.fdf dl.fdf dd { margin: .25em 0; padding: 0; width: 37%; float:
left; display: block; }
* html fieldset.fdf dl.fdf dd { margin: 0 1em .25em 19.2em; padding: .25em
0 0 .5em; width: auto; float: none; }
fieldset.fdf dl.fdf dd+dd { margin: .25em 0 .25em 19.2em; }
fieldset.fdf dl.fdf dd.numericRef { margin: 0 0 0 -3.5em; padding: 0 .25em
0 .25em; height: 1.2em; width: 2em; font-size: 120%; float: left;
text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; }
fieldset.fdf dl.fdf dd.numericRef+dd { margin: 0; }


Plus a little extra for IE7 in a separate file isolated by conditional
comments:

div#contentBody fieldset dl.fdf dd { margin: .5em 0 0 0; padding: 0;
width: 37%; float: none; display: block; }
div#contentBody fieldset dl.fdf dd+dd { margin: 0 0 .25em 16.5em; }
div#contentBody fieldset dl.fdf dd.numericRef { margin: 0 0 0 -3.5em;
padding: 0 .25em 0 .25em; height: 1.2em; width: 2em; font-size: 120%;
float: left; text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; }
div#contentBody fieldset dl.fdf dd.numericRef+dd { margin: 0; }


I've tested this on pretty much everything I can get my hands on (this gig
requires it), and it either works as expected, or degrades gracefully in
older releases - back to NN6.2 on Mac.

Cheers

Ben

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[css-d] Border-bottom not appearing in IE

[victor NOAGBODJI]

Hi,

Border-bottom applied on DIVs refuses to appear in IE while appearing
correctly in Firefox. I have tried to fix it but I couldn't.

Follow this link to see what I mean (open it with IE) :
http://www.surprises.tg

get the CSS here :
http://www.surprises.tg/templates/surprises.css -- that's the concerned CSS

Will you have more chance than I ?

thanks.
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[css-d] Div with text, vertical align, again...

[Scott Haneda]

I have read every vertical align thing out there, setting to table display
is not something I am into:


I like how if I + the font size, the box grows with it, and all is well.  I
was the white type to be sucked to the bottom, not the top, or even better,
in the middle.

Any way I try it, the type eventually truncates on enlargement.
-- 
-
Scott HanedaTel: 415.898.2602
 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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Re: [css-d] CSS Form Layout Problem

[Niklas Kanthak]

> Here is the current website link, where I've tried to implement the idea you
> outlined above.  I understand what the prop and clear divs are doing, but on
> my machine, with IE 6, it's still not working.
> I know the prop/clear solution will work, but I've still
> got something wrong and can't seem to figure out what!  Can you help?
> 
> http://nyslittreedata.advantex.net/index.cfm/fuseaction/Accounts.LoginForm.c
> fm

Hello Marc,

your CSS is still somewhat messed up. It seems that you tend to set in 
declarations at random (e. g. float) to solve problems. This is because 
of the lack of experience which I sometimes do, too, but that often 
causes more problems than to solve them. Try to reduce your CSS to the 
minimum of declarations.

It seems that main problems are:
fieldset {
/*clear : both;*/
}
#mainContent H1 {
/*width:560px;*/
}
.prop {
height: 900px;
/*display:inline;*/
}
#contentText {
/*height:100%;
width:560px;
min-height:900px;   
border:thin none;*/
}


Further changes:

I deleted the wrapping div of the form-tag. You don't need it! Think of 
the fieldset-tag as a wrapper. Same here: Reduce your HTML to the minimum!

#accountLink {
/*float: right;*/
}

Phew!

Niklas
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Re: [css-d] Suggestions, or dev for hire

[Scott Haneda]

> I quickly did this:
> http://www.newgeo.com/web/css/topborder/a.html
> 
> So I have an outer div for w/h in case I need it
> I have a left and rigth div to hold the two top corners, floated left and
> right.  I drop those in one more div to give me my center background color.
> Final div below it all gives me the thin border.
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to clean this up, or would it work pretty well across
> all browsers?

Of course, it does not work in IE on Windows
-- 
-
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 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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Re: [css-d] Suggestions, or dev for hire

[Scott Haneda]

> See image here:
> 
> 
> Gonna take the plunge, entire site in CSS, the box in the url above is used on
> all of the site, 10's of pages.
> 
> It is used at varying sizes, depending on the data they want in it.
> 
> I want a fluid box, with a adjustable inner padding/margin that I can stuff
> text and images into, and have it grow as I want.  Most of the times, I will
> fix the width.
> 
> I have some ideas on how to do it, but suggestions would help, to get me
> started in the right direction, or, I can hire someone for a hour or so of
> their time.

I quickly did this:
http://www.newgeo.com/web/css/topborder/a.html

So I have an outer div for w/h in case I need it
I have a left and rigth div to hold the two top corners, floated left and
right.  I drop those in one more div to give me my center background color.
Final div below it all gives me the thin border.

Can anyone tell me how to clean this up, or would it work pretty well across
all browsers?
-- 
-
Scott HanedaTel: 415.898.2602
 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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Re: [css-d] hide image from non-enabled css

[Thierry Koblentz]

> Courtney Burge wrote:
> > On this page:
> > http://www.cofc.edu/~hml/index2.html
> >
> > I have a header image that is set to "display:none" on the regular
> > stylesheet and will print with the use of a print stylesheet.
> >
> > Is there a way to also hide this header when toggling OFF the CSS on
> > the page?  I can't make the header image a background image, because I
> > want it to print ...
> >
>
> Well, obviously CSS can't do anything to solve a problem that occurs
> when CSS is off. :-) So, any solutions are off-topic for this list. Try
> asking your question on another list that can give you scripting advice:

What about using CSS not to hide the image but to *show* it?
Not using "display:none" in the regular stylesheet but setting *dimensions*
in the print stylesheet.
HTML:

CSS:
#zHeaderImage {height:120px;width:450px}

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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[css-d] Suggestions, or dev for hire

[Scott Haneda]

See image here:


Gonna take the plunge, entire site in CSS, the box in the url above is used
on all of the site, 10's of pages.

It is used at varying sizes, depending on the data they want in it.

I want a fluid box, with a adjustable inner padding/margin that I can stuff
text and images into, and have it grow as I want.  Most of the times, I will
fix the width.

I have some ideas on how to do it, but suggestions would help, to get me
started in the right direction, or, I can hire someone for a hour or so of
their time.
-- 
-
Scott HanedaTel: 415.898.2602
 Novato, CA U.S.A.


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[css-d] Header problems

[Mark Fellowes]

I don't believe I've ran into this before, meaning not asked about this type 
of problem before here.  Problem is the header in IE (haven't checked Opera or 
Netscape), looks right in Firefox.  In IE, the height is off  and the 
background graphic has a gray background.  

http://www.pamshop.com/Template1/exp4.html

The weird thing is and I came across it by accident is both:

http://www.pamshop.com/Template1/images/PoserMan_alt.png
and
http://www.pamshop.com/Template1/images/PoserMan_alt.gif

are basically the same graphic, with a white background.  Only I noticed 
setting the header to a black background and using the .png version seems to 
make things much darker (both in Dreamweaver and Firefox), where as using the 
.gif things are much brighter.  So I kind of like the png better and wonder if 
there is a fix for it.  Then also the height problem in IE.

TIA
Mark
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Re: [css-d] hide image from non-enabled css

[jack fredricks]

On 5/26/06, Zoe M. Gillenwater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Courtney Burge wrote:
> > On this page:
> > http://www.cofc.edu/~hml/index2.html
> >
> > I have a header image that is set to "display:none" on the regular
> > stylesheet and will print with the use of a print stylesheet.
> >
> > Is there a way to also hide this header when toggling OFF the CSS on
> > the page?  I can't make the header image a background image, because I
> > want it to print ...
> >
>
> Well, obviously CSS can't do anything to solve a problem that occurs
> when CSS is off. :-) So, any solutions are off-topic for this list. Try
> asking your question on another list that can give you scripting advice:
>
> http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic
>
> Best,
> Zoe

There are actually ways to do it.

All you need to do is find a way to display the image ONLY when css is
turned on.

If you COULD use background images, that would work...

however, you might want to try this;



it's got issues, but you might be able to solve them.
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[css-d] Overriding cellspacing in IE

[Storm, Dan]

I may well be inheriting tables from upstream and am writing tests to nullify 
cellpadding, cellspacing, border, width, and align through CSS. I can nullify 
all of the above with FF1.5 on a PC, but cannot override cellspacing for IE6.

Suggestions?


dan storm ~ web developer ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ w: 206.266.0292 ~ c: 
425.503.9580

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[css-d] IE 7 problem with the footer floating up

[Courtney Burge]

My site looks good in all browsers (afaik) except IE7b, where the
footer floats up into the #content and presses right underneath the
background image (a triangle) in the upper right of the #main-content.
 I need to get the footer to come after the #outer-wrapper.
screenshot:
http://www.cofc.edu/~hml/images/footerproblem.jpg

I have this page where I've stripped most of the content from the html
and left only relevant tags in the CSS.

Any suggestions?
http://www.cofc.edu/~hml/index2.html

Thanks in advance,
-- 
;) Courtney
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Re: [css-d] Is it impossible to set margin to h1, h2... el ?

[Tom Livingston]

> While this will work, I don't recommend it. My method for margins around
> headings and paragraphs has always been to remove top margins on all
> text and just set bottom margins on everything. This allows me to
> control the spacing between headings and the following paragraphs
> without needing child selectors or classes. I've never needed something
> more intricate (though I acknowledge others will at times -- try
> something simple like this first though).
>
> Zoe

Zoe,

I am trying this here:

66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index.html

but I am getting double margin (?) under the h1, in FF(Mac) and IE6.

What am I missing?


-- 

Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com
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[css-d] aligning bullets with IE 6

[Tim Ware]

We have a simple unordered list and, with Win IE 6 only, the text for  
each list item is about .2em lower than the bullet which is a  
graphical bullet thats 3px square with no border on the image.

We've adjusted the padding, margins, etc., and nothing lets them work.

Thanks.

Tim
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[css-d] Elements side by side

[Scott Hughes]

I am working with XML using CSS and have an element named 
 in which I would like to have the attributes for 
that element to be, of course, underlined. No text except for numbering in 
sequence. Then I have a  in which I would 
like to have my text and that element located and indented next to the 
 element. Does anybody know how I should handle that or can you 
give me directions to a source.
   
  Thanks


-
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ 
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
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[css-d] How To: Make links work when using AlphaLoader

[cj]

while microsoft's alphaloader might not exactly be css, it's currently
the best (only) way to get alpha transparent pngs to work in ie6.  one
of the many downfalls to using this propriety method, however, has
been that links cease to work when an alphaloaded background is behind
them.  heck you can't even select any text.

working on my site, i stumbled across something that made links start
to work again.  i didn't question it at first because i wasn't having
any problems, but later i added more links, and these new links didn't
work.  this meant i had to track down the "fix" i must have found.

the fix: i actually have no idea why what i did works.  however you
can see my fixed version alongside a non-fixed version at
http://sltclan.com/images/cj/fix-ie-loader/default.html

method #1 - not so great, but better than nothing:
using "text-align: right;" on the link will work *most* of the time,
but there is a slight delay when you mouse over the links.  you can
see this live on the right column of the non-fixed area.  sometimes it
stops working though, and i have no idea why.  that's ms for ya!

method #2 - requires a bit of markup, but much better:
setting a parent to "text-align: right;" fixes it much better when i
put "position: relative;height: 0;" on the actual link.  i don't know
how i came up with this, but i have seen absolutely no problems with
my links when i put this into effect.  you can even get all text to
line back up on the left hand side after having set the parent to
align right, which i show on the left column.

any comments or better suggestions are welcome, since i haven't seen
any fixes for links before i figured this all out.
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[css-d] Site-check

[Eystein Alnaes]

I'd just like to know how this looks on Windows, perticulary on IE. Tryed to
add IE/win filters/hacks from memory, but aren't able to check it without my
windowsbox.

I've used two things in perticular:
- min-width for IE with css only (please don't mind the extra markup)
- display: block; / width: 100%; for the a-tags in the meny.

http://www.eystein.no/test/OR/fluid.html
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[css-d] the story of internet explorer and the floating photo gallery, chapter 3

[skye estes]

so. i'm converting a client's site from tables to css.

i redid this photo gallery: http://pacifictao.com/index.php
using a list and floated list items at:
http://heli.cx/clients/pacifictao/dvds.html
i also added a second page for them at:
http://heli.cx/clients/pacifictao/dvds.html
the css for both of these can be found at:
http://heli.cx/clients/pacifictao/main.css

both of these look fine and beautiful and resize and degrade well with
browser windows in firefox. (except that since they're floated,
i've wrapped them in a div in order to keep div#main from collapsing. it
doesn't save it when the browser window has to be narrowed.
help on that would be very nice, because this is my first float layout. but
that's a secondary problem.)

in ie, they're ll wonky. any ideas why? i am at a total loss!
i have the end of each row clear:left-ed, and the beginning of each
subsequent row clear:right-ed.
ie for some reason thinks that it's a good idea to insert clears or line
breaks or something right in the middle of several rows.
this is the story, and now, dear readers, i turn it over to you.

thank you for your consideration.

·skye·
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Re: [css-d] Div with one absolute and one relative boundary

[richard hall]

The problem I have in my case, is if I use this

#menu {
float: left;
width:199px; 
background-color: #CC;
height:100%;
}
#content {
width:75%;
margin-left: 220px;
top:0;
font-family: Papyrus;
background-color:#FF;
}






... Then there is a white space and yellow bar about the graphic at the top
of the menu in firefox and safari and I want the graphic to be flush against
the top of the browser.

http://www.inspirationcenter.net/midamericadharma/float.aspx

However when I use this:

#menu {
width:199px; 
background-color: #CC;
height:100%;
}
#content {
position:absolute;
width:75%;
margin-left: 220px;
top:0;
font-family: Papyrus;
background-color:#FF;
}

... It seems to work correctly in firefox (man & win), safari, and IE (win)

http://www.inspirationcenter.net/midamericadharma

... I tried messing with top-margin=0 but couldn't get it to work ... Any
ideas/thoughs appreciated  Richard


On 5/25/06 9:11 AM, "Zoe M. Gillenwater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dave Goodchild wrote:
>> An absolutely positioned element will be positioned relative to its nearest
>> positioned parent (ie I tend to use a wrapper div with position: relative if
>> I am going to use absolutely positioned elements, but as I learn more I am
>> beginning to understand that floated layouts are much more flexible and in
>> line with the fluid medium we call the web. Am I right guys?
>>   
> 
> Yes. :-) Even fixed width layouts should employ floats, not absolute
> positioning, to avoid the possibilities of overlaps. Only *really*
> simple layouts can use absolute positioning safely.
> 
> Zoe

-- 
Richard H. Hall
http://www.umr.edu/~rhall

Save the internet - Preserve Network Neutrality!
http://www.savetheinternet.com



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Re: [css-d] Structured Layout

[Henry Umansky]

I apologize for the double post, I attempted to stop delivery of the
incorrect post.  Once again I am no match for the speed of the internet.
Eitherway, the correct post is listed below.  (sorry for the flood)

Hello all,
> I'm new to the list, so I apologize if this topic was discussed already.
> I'm trying to create a website from scratch for a client.  Sounds simple
> enough, the only problem is that the client wants a fluid layout that
> looks exactly like http://www.princeton.edu website.  Surveying
> Princeton's website, it looks like its a 3-column design with the standard
> header and footer.  However, if you attempt to change the text size, that
> website is not so fluid.  The header and footer is fairly simple to layout,
> my issue is with the main content area.  Not only is there three columns,
> but there are two rows.  So my question is this, is it possible to create a
> fluid 3-column, 2-row layout that is rigid initially, but fluid when text
> is resized?  In other words, the six main content areas will need to be the
> same ratio when text is resized.  I would prefer not to use tables and/or
> images as text links, but if I have to then I will.  Also, if you look at
> the left margin, it starts out at approximately 87 pixels, then when the
> window resizes lower, it collapses.  Princeton uses a background image for
> this effect, but is there a way to do that with CSS?
>
> Thank you,
> Henry
>
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[css-d] Structured Layout

[Henry Umansky]

Hello all,
I'm new to the list, so I apologize if this topic was discussed already.
I'm trying to create a website from scratch for a client.  Sounds simple
enough, the only problem is that the client wants a fluid layout that looks
exactly like http://www.princeton.edu website.  Surveying Princeton's
website, it looks like its a 3-column design with the standard header and
footer.  However, if you attempt to change the text size, that website is
not so fluid.  The header and footer is fairly simple to layout, my issue is
with the main content area.  Not only is there three columns, but there are
two rows.  So my question is this, is it possible to create a fluid
3-column, 2-row layout that is rigid initially, but fluid when text is
resized?  In other words, the six main content areas will need to be the
same ratio when text is resized.  I would prefer not to use tables and/or
images as text links, but if I have to then I will.  Also, if you look at
the left margin, it starts out at approximately 87 pixels, then when the
window resizes lower, it collapses.  Princeton uses a background image for
this effect, but is there a way to do that with CSS?

Thank you,
Henry
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[css-d] structured layout

[Henry Umansky]

Hello all,
I'm new to the list, so I apologize if this topic was discussed  
already.  Anyway, I'm trying to create a website from scratch for a  
client.  Sounds simple enough, the only problem is that the client  
wants a fluid layout that looks exactly like https:// 
www.princeton.edu website.  Surveying Princeton's website, it looks  
like its a 2-column design with the standard header and footer.   
However, if you attempt to change the text size, that website is not  
so fluid.  The header and footer is fairly simple to layout, my issue  
is with the main content area.  Not only is there two columns, but  
there are three rows.  So my question is this, is it possible to  
create a fluid 2-column, 3 row layout that is rigid initially, but  
fluid when text is resized?  In other words, the six main content  
areas will need to be the same ratio when text is resized.  I would  
prefer not to use tables and/or images as text links, but if I have  
to then I will.  Also, if you look at the left margin, it starts out  
at approximately 87 pixels, then when the window resizes lower, it  
collapses.  Princeton uses a background image for this effect, but is  
there a way to do that with CSS?

Thank you,
Henry
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[css-d] baby questions: images and aligning text right and left in div box

[smithj7]

How is one to align images and assign properties like border= "0"?  Is
it in a div?  I searched everywhere using css image property and so
forth and found nothing so I'm guessing such stuff is done another way.
 
Also in one box I hope to align some text right and some text left.  I
found on the list discussion page an example of doing this with a link,
but my text isn't a link.  Maybe this is not possible. 
 
I have to make my work index page look more or less like the parent
requirements.  
 
The current page is http://dbs.myflorida.com/
 
My tableless version is actually looking better than the table version
IMHO (at least with the browers - i'm using will tackle browers issues
after I better understand css with forms and images).  It is at
http://dbs.myflorida.com/tablelessI.shtml
 
Note (somewhat off topic):  When I started this group I had very little
knowledge of the power of css.  Thanks to this group I am understanding
how powerful a tool it is and am learning a whole bunch!  Thanks to
everyone!  Especially enjoy the posts with regards to accessiblity since
I work for Blind Services.  Definately would appreciate a link on how to
get forms with xhtml strict... can't get any to validate yet - can with
transitional - can email me privately regarding this issue.
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Re: [css-d] hide image from non-enabled css

[Andrei Gheorghe]

You could set the image in the css as a background for the top div (or
h1, whatever), so when css is disabled the background is also skipped
(along with all the other styles in the css).

Cheers

On 5/24/06, Courtney Burge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On this page:
> http://www.cofc.edu/~hml/index2.html
>
> I have a header image that is set to "display:none" on the regular
> stylesheet and will print with the use of a print stylesheet.
>
> Is there a way to also hide this header when toggling OFF the CSS on
> the page?  I can't make the header image a background image, because I
> want it to print ...
>
> thanks,
> Courtney
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[css-d] how to set all elements in a div?

[Michel Sabatino]

How can I set the same font size to all elements of a div.
h1, h2, h3, p, all of them to font-size 1em.
Is this the best solution ??

#mydiv * { font-size: 1em; }


Thanks in advance.
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Re: [css-d] After positioning relative, IE places everything far below

[Chris W. Parker]

Zoe M. Gillenwater 
on Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:39 AM said:

> You're right, relative positioning is not useful in the way you are
> using it. I would use a negative margin to shift something up like
> that. But relative positioning, without applying any offsets, is
> useful for setting things for absolutely positioned elements to base
> off of. Offsetting relative positioned elements is very occasionally
> useful when it doesn't matter if a gap is left behind.

I see. Thank you.


Chris.
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Re: [css-d] Elastic layouts: want to confirm

[Tom Livingston]

> > idea for accessibility, it often leads to lots of horizontal scrolling

What about a width limit (no, not a fixed width site) on the width of
the main content in relation to the rest of the page (like an article)
so as to allow the font scaling to occur vertically instead of
horizontally? This seems like a better solution to me.

Like this maybe?

http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/

Scale up. No horiz scroll.

-- 
-- 

Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] Div with one absolute and one relative boundary

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

richard hall wrote:
> The problem I have in my case, is if I use this
>
> #menu {
> float: left;
> width:199px; 
> background-color: #CC;
> height:100%;
> }
> #content {
> width:75%;
> margin-left: 220px;
> top:0;
> font-family: Papyrus;
> background-color:#FF;
> }
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> ... Then there is a white space and yellow bar about the graphic at the top
> of the menu in firefox and safari and I want the graphic to be flush against
> the top of the browser.
>
> http://www.inspirationcenter.net/midamericadharma/float.aspx
>
> However when I use this:
>
> #menu {
> width:199px; 
> background-color: #CC;
> height:100%;
> }
> #content {
> position:absolute;
> width:75%;
> margin-left: 220px;
> top:0;
> font-family: Papyrus;
> background-color:#FF;
> }
>
> ... It seems to work correctly in firefox (man & win), safari, and IE (win)
>
> http://www.inspirationcenter.net/midamericadharma
>
>   

Richard,

Get rid of the top margin on the h1 inside the div.
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CollapsingMargin

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Flexible box with image in the background

[Tom Livingston]

On 5/25/06, Erik Gyepes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> than the bottom is okay, but the TOP image is overwritten by the MIDDLE
> layer, so this is not really the best :(
>
> Erik
>

Those 3 divs are floats. Do they need to? If so, are you clearing them?

-- 

Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com
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