[css-d] Sizing checkboxes in IE

[Barney Carroll]

Hello list,

A bit of a lazy question here but I can't get to an IE box: Does anyone 
know if checkboxes can be sized in IE?

I thought this was not part of CSS as it stood anyway, but when I attach 
the following CSS:

input[type="checkbox"]
{height: 1em; width: 1em}

...FireFox renders beautiful scaling boxes. Is this true across the board?


Regardsm
Barney
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Re: [css-d] layout breaks in IE 6

[Mike Breiding]

At 06:18 PM 2/27/2007 , Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
>Mike Breiding wrote:
> > The following layout breaks in IE 6.o
> > http://montrails.org/
>Indeed.
>
>Start by adding the following at the very bottom of your stylesheet...
>
>@media screen {
>* html #topbar, * html #name {overflow: hidden;}
>* html #contenttext {overflow-x: hidden;}
>* html #logo {margin-bottom: -4px;}
>}
>...and IE6 should not treat it too badly.
>
>- These rules are preventing IE6' 'auto-expansion' bug - IE doesn't
>respect dimensions if content doesn't fit inside.
>regards Georg  http://www.gunlaug.no

Thanks, George. That did the trick.
-Mike



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[css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Barney Carroll]

I've just installed Opera, to expand my testing abilities.

A site I'm working on uses many repetitive functional links that I've 
given block display and background-images to, in order to display them 
as icons. However they also contain text for the purposes of print and 
non-visual browsing.

These are the essential components of my method:

View draft

.draftlink {font-size: 1px; font-size: 0;}


The font-size of 0 is ideal, but only FireFox will actually swallow that 
whole, so for the fussy browsers I've given the ability to render the 
font as small as possible, at 1px.

/However/, Opera is doubly arrogant in that it seems to be deciding that 
1px is too small arbitrarily. The DOM inspector tells me the computed 
style is font-size: 9px. At a wild guess I'd say this is a UI decision 
the developers have made, judging text any smaller than 9px not to be 
allowed.

There are no overriding styles apart from the ones I described, no 
inherited modifiers, or anything. Why is Opera doing this and how can I 
tell it not to?


Regards,
Barney
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Re: [css-d] Sizing checkboxes in IE

[Jukka K. Korpela]

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007, Barney Carroll wrote:

> Does anyone know if checkboxes can be sized in IE?

Yes.

> I thought this was not part of CSS as it stood anyway,

The nature of a checkbox is unspecified in CSS. It has intrinsic 
dimensions, which can be affected by width and height properties, but it 
is debatable whether this means the square alone (if it is a square - 
there is no law saying what a checkbox _should_ look like) or a (normally 
borderless) box containing the square.

So there's really no "should", still less "shall", but there's a strong 
"could": sizing may well work.

> but when I attach
> the following CSS:
>
> input[type="checkbox"]
> {height: 1em; width: 1em}
>
> ...FireFox renders beautiful scaling boxes. Is this true across the board?

If you use just
input {height: 1em; width: 1em}
or
input.cb {height: 1em; width: 1em}
then it works on IE as well. However you might not _see_ it working, since 
the default size is apparently close to 1em. Well, perhaps rather 1.25em, 
but the difference is difficult to see. Try with 2em and you'll see.

The attribute selector [type="checkbox"] is not supported at all by IE 6, 
and IE 7 recognizes it in "standards mode" only.

-- 
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Ian Young]

>
> I've just installed Opera, to expand my testing abilities.
>
> A site I'm working on uses many repetitive functional links that I've
> given block display and background-images to, in order to display them
> as icons. However they also contain text for the purposes of print and
> non-visual browsing.
>
> These are the essential components of my method:
>
> View draft
>
> .draftlink {font-size: 1px; font-size: 0;}
>
>
> The font-size of 0 is ideal, but only FireFox will actually swallow that
> whole, so for the fussy browsers I've given the ability to render the
> font as small as possible, at 1px.
>
> /However/, Opera is doubly arrogant in that it seems to be deciding that
> 1px is too small arbitrarily. The DOM inspector tells me the computed
> style is font-size: 9px. At a wild guess I'd say this is a UI decision
> the developers have made, judging text any smaller than 9px not to be
> allowed.
>
> There are no overriding styles apart from the ones I described, no
> inherited modifiers, or anything. Why is Opera doing this and how can I
> tell it not to?

Have to ask the question. Why ever would you want to?
Ask yourself the question. If someone has images turned off, they won't be
too impressed with a page full of 1px text instead and they will go
elsewhere.

Leave as is woul dbe my advice. Maybe Opera knows better!!

Ian
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15:24

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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Barney Carroll]

Ian Young wrote:
> Have to ask the question. Why ever would you want to?
> Ask yourself the question. If someone has images turned off, they won't be
> too impressed with a page full of 1px text instead and they will go
> elsewhere.

Out of the question really. This part of the site is for managers, it's 
not as if they're going to find a rival service or anything. As it 
happens, I know that everyone with access to this part of the site is 
fully-sighted and have connections in excess of 28Kbps - so I'm not at 
all worried about the dreaded images-off demographic.


> Leave as is woul dbe my advice. Maybe Opera knows better!!

Sorry, way too arrogant for that. I got into CSS almost specifically so 
I could enforce my own magnanimous notions about UI. Hehehe.


Darren West wrote:
 > Maybe you would be better of using an image tag with the alt attribute:
 >
 > 
 >
 > Or using an embedded span positioned off screen:
 >
 > View draft
 >
 > .access-text { position: absolute; left: -1000px )

I may well go with that second option Darren - it's tried and tested, I 
can't really complain. I'd pompously decided that I shouldn't have to 
use extra markup and banal hacks to get my system to work, but it's not 
as if Opera are going to re-think their policy if I sulk long enough!


Regards,
Barney
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Re: [css-d] Sizing checkboxes in IE WORKS

[Barney Carroll]

Jukka,

Thanks, you're right about the negligible effect. I have since managed 
to test this across a few browsers:

Firefox: Beautiful indefinite vector-scaling.
IE 7:Bitmaps scaled.
Opera:   Bitmaps scaled.
Safari:  Object scales, but bitmap remains same size and in the top-left 
corner.


Regards,
Barney
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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

Barney Carroll wrote:

> These are the essential components of my method:
>
> View draft
>
> .draftlink {font-size: 1px; font-size: 0;}
...
> There are no overriding styles apart from the ones I described, no
> inherited modifiers, or anything. Why is Opera doing this and how  
> can I
> tell it not to?

As has often been mentioned here or on other lists it is a bad idea  
to rely on font-sizing like that to hide text. Browsers have settings  
for minimum font-size, or/and settings that prevent any font-sizing,  
etc.
In my browser, your text will display as 12px.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Barney Carroll]

Austin Harris wrote:
> ...I know that everyone with access to this part of the site is
> fully-sighted...
> 
> Just to be a PITA, what would happen IF this changed and someone lost their 
> sight?
> 
> Can of worms - meet can opener ;)
> 
> Austin

I'd advise them on using JAWS, in all likelihood.

The people I'm failing are not blind users, but sighted people with 
backgrounds and/or images turned off. If one of my users decided to do 
this, I would tell them to stop it.

The difference is between alienating users who /cannot/ access site 
functions, and those who can but have /chosen not to/. At a certain 
point, it is reasonable to run out of sympathy, budget and realistic 
conception for user-end customisation.


Regards,
Barney
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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Ingo Chao]

Barney Carroll wrote:
> ...
> /However/, Opera is doubly arrogant in that it seems to be deciding that 
> 1px is too small arbitrarily. 

Firefox and Safari allow to set a Minimum Font Size in their 
preferences, too. Opera has this preference set by default to 9px. The 
user may decide to change that, if he wants to. Perhaps 9px are too 
small for him.

Ingo

-- 
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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 28 Feb 2007, at 12:17:56, Barney Carroll wrote:

> Ian Young wrote:
>> Leave as is woul dbe my advice. Maybe Opera knows better!!
>
> Sorry, way too arrogant for that. I got into CSS almost  
> specifically so
> I could enforce my own magnanimous notions about UI. Hehehe.
>

Then you got into the wrong field; C, C++, C# or Java are what you're  
looking for :-)

Those languages will allow you to enforce your own notions about any  
computable problem (assuming you don't plan to use an existing GUI  
framework such as Win32, .NET WinForms, Aqua or Swing), but working  
in the browser, it's the browser whose notions get enforced.

Opera has a minimum font size enabled by default, so playing with 1px  
text is never going to work with the default settings in that  
browser. This is why most people recommend using other techniques.

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/



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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Felix Miata]

On 2007/02/28 12:38 (GMT) Barney Carroll apparently typed:

> At a certain 
> point, it is reasonable to run out of sympathy, budget and realistic 
> conception for user-end customisation.

Heaven forbid that anyone should choose to _personalize_ their _Personal_
Computer.
-- 
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the
truth is not in us."1 John 1:8 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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[css-d] ADMIN Re: Small-as-possible text in Opera?

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2007/02/28 12:38 (GMT) Barney Carroll apparently typed:
>
>   
>> At a certain 
>> point, it is reasonable to run out of sympathy, budget and realistic 
>> conception for user-end customisation.
>> 
>
> Heaven forbid that anyone should choose to _personalize_ their _Personal_
> Computer.
>   

Let's all please make sure that we keep this thread on-topic. If anyone 
has practical advice for Barney on how to modify his CSS to accomplish 
his goal, please share that. All other comments about users, etc, are 
not appropriate on the list.

Thanks for your cooperation,
Zoe Gillenwater
css-d list moderator

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Re: [css-d] Small-as-possible text in Opera? SOLVED

[Barney Carroll]

Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2007/02/28 12:38 (GMT) Barney Carroll apparently typed:
> 
>> At a certain 
>> point, it is reasonable to run out of sympathy, budget and realistic 
>> conception for user-end customisation.
> 
> Heaven forbid that anyone should choose to _personalize_ their _Personal_
> Computer.

I think you misunderstand me, Felix. I have no problem with users making 
any decisions about how they should modify what they're accessing. In 
fact, I believe they should have even more modularity, and hope that the 
evolution of XHTML will allow them far more than they have now.

However, I cannot be held responsible for all these customisations - I 
cannot conceive of, nor test for, many of these. If I have catered for 
problems by conceiving of certain CSS rules, and those rules are 
overridden by the user, there isn't much I can do. I am sure you would 
never tell a user they shouldn't be /allowed/ to implement a rule of 
p{font-size: 2px !important;}, but neither can you do anything about 
it once they have decided on it, and in all likelihood it will render 
all your work unusable.

In any case, I am implementing the off-page positioning technique as 
suggested by Darren. Thanks all for your warnings.


@Nick:
Extra-browser interfaces have always been something I'd love to work on. 
However, I'm perfectly confident I can ruin everybody's life using 
nothing but visual presentation in my current domain (and I'm sure 
plenty of list users will testify)!


Regards,
Barney
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[css-d] question

[Philippe Coq]

Hi,
I have a problem with this sample test.
I have the following html :

ABCDE FGHIJK
abcde fghijk

With the following .css file:
a:link { color: blue;text-decoration: none;}
a:visited {color: green;text-decoration: none;}
a:hover {
color: red;
text-decoration: none;
background-color: #ecf5ff;
}
a:active {color: black;text-decoration: none;}
h2 {color: red;}

I wonder why I lost color attribute in the string fghijk in the case href="#id2">...

while in the case  there is no problem.
How must I code the .css file?
Thanks in advance,
regards,
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[css-d] Worth the candle?

[Luis Speciale]

Hello ;

I’m trying to conceive a simple layout with no workarounds or hacks, to 
see how far it stands.
First of all, to learn. And later, to use it as the start for a layout 
for SPIP.
http://www.spip.net/en

I will be happy to hear (to read) your comments, if appropriate !-)

http://luis-speciale.net/centre.html

http://luis-speciale.net/css/basic.css

Thanks in advance

Luis

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Re: [css-d] Sizing checkboxes in IE WORKS

[Jukka K. Korpela]

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007, Barney Carroll wrote:

> Firefox: Beautiful indefinite vector-scaling.
> IE 7:Bitmaps scaled.

Strange - I get no scaling for checkboxes or radio buttons on Firefox 2, 
and IE 7 scales checkboxes nicely (while radio buttons have a pixelated 
circle).

-- 
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

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Re: [css-d] Website test please!! (44)

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a positioning problem with the index page navigation and the
> alignment of the pic squares in the site map page in FF 1.5 and IE 6

> http://users.ncable.net.au/~keno2/index.html

Index page...

#menu {
top:20px; /* adjust this value to taste */
clear: both; /* add this 'clear' */
/* and keep the rest as is */
}

...this will get IE6 back in line, and stabilize line-up across
browser-land.

Note: no need for divs around /every/ image. Images are normal elements
that can be styled (positioned etc.) directly.

Site map, add...

#cuts img {display: block;}

...to get cross-browser reliable line-up. Images are inline-elements,
and IE correctly adds space for descenders. Most other browsers use an
"almost standard" trick on images in otherwise empty divs (not
surrounded by text), but only when you use a Transitional doctype.


Looks like those pages otherwise survive well across browser-land.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] Website test please!! (44)

[~davidLaakso]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> Could I please have a cross browser check!!
>
> I have a positioning problem with the index page navigation
> and the alignment of the pic squares in the site map page in FF 1.5 and 
> IE 6
>
>
> http://users.ncable.net.au/~keno2/index.html  Site address
>
> http://users.ncable.net.au/~keno2/JRA.css main page
>
> http://users.ncable.net.au/~keno2/corners.css sub pages
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ken.
>
>   
Ken,

Georg provided the fix for the question you wrote about.

My lot in life is to nit-pick :-) .

You may want to consider making the page (I only looked at the home 
page) more user friendly.
It is breaking a little early with font-scaling in Firefox.

Try:

#menu { /*left: 90px; */ left: 120px; } <<< shove it right so it wont 
overlap the content text on zoom.

#container {  
/*height:203px; */  <<< delete the height so the text will not shoot out 
the bottom on zoom.
/*padding:0px; */
padding-bottom: 1em; <<< tweak to taste (buffer between bottom of  text 
and what follows beneath it)
}

.maintext { 
/*height:100px;*/ <<< no need to restrain the height
 /*text-align: justify;*/ <<< delete to dry up the rivers (justified 
text does not do well on the Web)
/*line-height: 16px; */line-height: 1.3; <<<  pixels for line-height 
does not do well cross-browser (user a raw number-- no munit of measure 
reqired)   
}

#events {
 /*text-align:justify; */ <<< delete to dry up the rivers (justified 
text does not do well on the Web)
}

Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] question

[francky]

Philippe Coq wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a problem with this sample test.
> I have the following html :
> 
> ABCDE FGHIJK
> abcde fghijk
>
> With the following .css file:
> a:link { color: blue;text-decoration: none;}
> a:visited {color: green;text-decoration: none;}
> a:hover {
> color: red;
> text-decoration: none;
> background-color: #ecf5ff;
> }
> a:active {color: black;text-decoration: none;}
> h2 {color: red;}
>
> I wonder why I lost color attribute in the string fghijk in the case 
> ...
> while in the case  there is no problem.
> How must I code the .css file?
> Thanks in advance,
> regards,
Hi Philippe,
I guess the css can be the same, but the html in the 2nd line has to be 
changed. Now the  is nested in the ..., which is forbidden.

* See testpage
  

You can do:
abcde fghijk
or maybe:
abcde fghijk

We don't know what your intention is with the code and the (styling of 
the) .
So if this is not what you want, do you have a link to a testpage to 
illustrate your question?

Greetings,
francky


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[css-d] logo to navbar gap

[Bryan Hepworth]

Hi Everyone

I'm battling to get the logo gap between the navbar to look similar in IE and 
FF. Is there a better or standard way of what I'm trying to do? The IE gap is 
the one (gap-wise) that I'm looking for.

http://www.redfedora.co.uk/clinotherm/clinotherm.html
http://www.redfedora.co.uk/clinotherm/clinotherm.css

Thanks
Bryan
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Re: [css-d] logo to navbar gap

[Bradley Wright]

On 28 Feb 2007, at 13:06, Bryan Hepworth wrote:
> I'm battling to get the logo gap between the navbar to look similar  
> in IE and FF. Is there a better or standard way of what I'm trying  
> to do? The IE gap is the one (gap-wise) that I'm looking for.

The UL that makes up the nav bar has margins:

#navcontainerblue {margin: 0;}

And the IMG is inline by default, which means it has line-height and  
adds a bit of a gap underneath it:

img#logoname (you need to add an ID to the image) {display:block;}

Then use margin-bottom on the IMG to achieve the gap you want (or  
margin-top on the UL or parent DIV).

Brad

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[css-d] Multiple Explorers - how to get IE 6 files?

[Allison Bloodworth]

Hi, 

I currently run multiple Internet Explorers in order to do browser testing,
and originally downloaded old versions of IE from this site:
http://www.quirksmode.org/browsers/multipleie.html

I have upgraded to IE 7 and am trying to add IE 6 to my repository of old
browsers, but haven't been able to find files similar to the ones on the
Quirks Mode site for IE 6. Anyone have any insight on how to go about this,
or have the files posted somewhere? I tried downloading IE 6 from Microsoft
to "downgrade" back to IE 6 and see if I could get the files that way, but
the installer refuses to run, it says because I've got a newer version of IE
installed. 

Thanks!

Allison Bloodworth
Principal Administrative Analyst
Technology Program Office
University of California, Berkeley
(415) 377-8243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[css-d] Getting Faux columns to work in IE?

[Jon Hughes]

http://goonsquad.org/santini/site/INCOTERMS2000.html

As you can see, this works fine in FF, but in IE, the columns only go down
to the "fold" -

I can't figure out how to fix that...


Anyone?

- Jon

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Re: [css-d] Multiple Explorers - how to get IE 6 files?

[George Ornbo]

On 2/28/07, Allison Bloodworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I currently run multiple Internet Explorers in order to do browser testing,
> and originally downloaded old versions of IE from this site:
> http://www.quirksmode.org/browsers/multipleie.html
>
> I have upgraded to IE 7 and am trying to add IE 6 to my repository of old
> browsers, but haven't been able to find files similar to the ones on the
> Quirks Mode site for IE 6. Anyone have any insight on how to go about this,
> or have the files posted somewhere? I tried downloading IE 6 from Microsoft
> to "downgrade" back to IE 6 and see if I could get the files that way, but
> the installer refuses to run, it says because I've got a newer version of IE
> installed.
>
> Thanks!

I think this is what you are looking for.

http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE

Even offers support for sessions and cookies as far as I can recall.

Cheers
George

Shape Shed | www.shapeshed.com
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Re: [css-d] Multiple Explorers - how to get IE 6 files?

[~davidLaakso]

Allison Bloodworth wrote:
> I have upgraded to IE 7 and am trying to add IE 6 to my repository of old
> browsers, but haven't been able to find files similar to the ones on the
> Quirks Mode site for IE 6. Anyone have any insight on how to go about this...]
>
> Allison Bloodworth
>   
We're a little off-topic, but see:

Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Getting Faux columns to work in IE?

[Ian Young]

> Subject: [css-d] Getting Faux columns to work in IE?
>
>
> http://goonsquad.org/santini/site/INCOTERMS2000.html
>
> As you can see, this works fine in FF, but in IE, the columns only go down
> to the "fold" -
>
> I can't figure out how to fix that...
>
>
>

Not sure what I am looking for here, Jon. No columns that I can see and IE6
same as FF.

Is this the correct link?

Ian
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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15:24

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Re: [css-d] Getting Faux columns to work in IE?

[~davidLaakso]

Jon Hughes wrote:
> http://goonsquad.org/santini/site/INCOTERMS2000.html
>
> As you can see, this works fine in FF, but in IE, the columns only go down
> to the "fold" -
>
> I can't figure out how to fix that...
>
>
>
>
> - Jon
>   
These deletions brought it up in ie/7.0 and held it ie/6.0 in xp on a 
local file.
/*html {
height:100%;
} */
body {
/*height:100%; */
}
FWIW, you may want to add a background-color for your content-text. Not 
everyone defaults to #fff (I default to fuchia in Opera to keep from 
making the same mistake :-) ).

Best,
~dL
PS General practice is to put hacks at the very bottom of the style 
sheet, not the top.

-- 
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[css-d] Strange Results with IE Conditional Comments

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

This is very strange.  My CSS Conditional comments seem to work but
when I add the link code for my default.css (non-IE CSS) into the  
page (either before or after
the conditional comments) IE for some reason also  parses the code in  
default.css and it
effects the IE layout as a result

First the environment:

:: I'm developing front-end code on Mac OS X.
:: I'm running Windows XP on Parallels for testing.
:: Publishing to a Windows 2003 server (I also have RDP so I can test
there as well)

:: I'm not using multiple versions of IE or anything like that, so no
"IE7.bat" problem or anything.

:: I'm using the following code:




Here is the URL:

http://advantix.appdev.netsolis.com/testing/index.aspx (only the
"about us" link works right now)

Works great on Firefox Mac and Win Firefox but as you'd expect IE has
trouble.

1. Can anyone reproduce the same results as I get?
2. Do you know the reason why conditional comments are not working in
this case?  What am I doing wrong?

Thanks so much!
figgy 
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Re: [css-d] Strange Results with IE Conditional Comments

[Dejan Kozina]

Hi.
Unless I misunderstood you badly, you're expecting IE to read 
IE6_default.css INSTEAD of default.css. Well, it won't.
IE will happily load any linked or included stylesheet. The CCs will 
only prevent other browsers to load the one inside the comment.
You should link the default stylesheet first, and then use the 
'commented' stylesheet only for correcting the values of the first one 
(as it comes later in the document it will overwrite the previous values).

djn


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This is very strange.  My CSS Conditional comments seem to work but
> when I add the link code for my default.css (non-IE CSS) into the  
> page (either before or after
> the conditional comments) IE for some reason also  parses the code in  
> default.css and it
> effects the IE layout as a result
> 
> First the environment:
> 
> :: I'm developing front-end code on Mac OS X.
> :: I'm running Windows XP on Parallels for testing.
> :: Publishing to a Windows 2003 server (I also have RDP so I can test
> there as well)
> 
> :: I'm not using multiple versions of IE or anything like that, so no
> "IE7.bat" problem or anything.
> 
> :: I'm using the following code:
> 
>  media="screen" />
> 
> 
> Here is the URL:
> 
> http://advantix.appdev.netsolis.com/testing/index.aspx (only the
> "about us" link works right now)
> 
> Works great on Firefox Mac and Win Firefox but as you'd expect IE has
> trouble.
> 
> 1. Can anyone reproduce the same results as I get?
> 2. Do you know the reason why conditional comments are not working in
> this case?  What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks so much!
> figgy 
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> 
> 
-- 
-
Dejan Kozina
Dolina 346 (TS) - I-34018 Italy
tel./fax: +39 040 228 436 - cell.: +39 348 7355 225 skype: dejankozina
http://www.kozina.com/  - e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [css-d] POOF! Background image on link goes away in IE!

[francky]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   Excellent! I used  tags rather than , but the effect was the same. 
> [...]
> ---
>   -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [...]
>   CSS workaround for external link with small icon 
>  
>  
>  
Hi all,
One day later and tested in IE7. Appears to give the same results as 
IE6. Means:

UPDATE
The * html hack has to be replaced by a general Conditional Comment for 
IE, which covers also IE7 (* html doesn't).

I already updated the page/article, but this moment my isp is not 
willing to upload the updated file with the same name. Strange: also the 
old one cannot be deleted by ftp. Hope in a few days.
A new file is coming through though:

http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-link-iconENupdate.htm

Cheers,
francky

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Re: [css-d] Strange Results with IE Conditional Comments

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Dejan Kozina wrote:
> Unless I misunderstood you badly, you're expecting IE to read 
> IE6_default.css INSTEAD of default.css. Well, it won't. IE will 
> happily load any linked or included stylesheet. The CCs will only 
> prevent other browsers to load the one inside the comment.

> You should link the default stylesheet first, and then use the 
> 'commented' stylesheet only for correcting the values of the first 
> one (as it comes later in the document it will overwrite the previous
>  values).

That's correct, and is how 'conditional comments' for stylesheet-links
are normally used.

For the odd case where we really want/need IE/win to _only_ read _one_
stylesheet and non-IE/win browsers to _only_ read _another_ stylesheet,
a valid variant of the 'downlevel-revealed' or 'reversed Conditional
Comment' can be used.

See...

...for examples, and links to original descriptions on variants of this
method.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Strange Results with IE Conditional Comments

[francky]

Dejan Kozina wrote:
> Hi.
> Unless I misunderstood you badly, you're expecting IE to read 
> IE6_default.css INSTEAD of default.css. Well, it won't.
> IE will happily load any linked or included stylesheet. The CCs will 
> only prevent other browsers to load the one inside the comment.
> You should link the default stylesheet first, and then use the 
> 'commented' stylesheet only for correcting the values of the first one 
> (as it comes later in the document it will overwrite the previous values).
>
> djn
Hi Figgy,
I can agree with Dejan. - Without looking for the doubles in the IE 
stylesheet, I have changed for IE6:

.logo { margin: -103px 0 0 5px; position: relative; }
.topnav-container { margin: -15px 0 0 200px; position: relative; }
.shadow { margin: -94px 0 0 0px; position: relative; }

then the IE6 positioning is going better (IE7 I can't test now).

* See testpage
  
.

O, I see you are changing things in the stylesheets, so I hope the 
testpage is still working when you see it. :-)

Remaining  *big* problem: a fixed (and small) font-size is used.

* It is impossible to enlarge the font/size for the visitors with IE
  as browser. - If seen in a 1280x1024 resolution monitor, the text
  is not readable.
* Visitors with other browsers can scale the font-size, but then the
  layout will break (text doesn't fit in the backgrounds).

So I think you should consider to build a more liquid design (layout), 
and to style the font-sizes in relative units (as em), so IE-users can 
enlarge/access the site too.

Success & greetings,
francky
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Re: [css-d] Getting Faux columns to work in IE?

[Jon Hughes]

Jon Hughes wrote:
> http://goonsquad.org/santini/site/INCOTERMS2000.html
>
> As you can see, this works fine in FF, but in IE, the columns only go down
> to the "fold" -
>
> I can't figure out how to fix that...
> - Jon
>   
These deletions brought it up in ie/7.0 and held it ie/6.0 in xp on a 
local file.
/*html {
height:100%;
} */
body {
/*height:100%; */
}


--

The problem with that is that it only goes to the bottom of the content, so
on the shorter pages, the columns only go half way down the page.

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[css-d] IE6 - float + overflow:auto problems

[Rolf Mortenson]

I was building a proof-of-concept for myself, and bumped into a  
problem in IE that I can't seem to solve.

test page is posted here, with all css in the head: http:// 
tinyurl.com/ytr6qf

I've got a basic structure like this:




Top


Lorem ipsum dolor ...




Lorem ipsum dolor ...



Lorem ipsum dolor ...



foot




div#left has float: left; (and is likely unrelated to the problem)
div#right has overflow: auto; and contains:
div#togglebar which has float: left;
div.big, which is simply bigger than the width of div#right in order  
to trigger the scroll bars

That all works great in FF, Safari, NN, but in IE6, div.big gets  
pushed down below the floated div#togglebar. I've tried every trick I  
can think of, but it won't cooperate. Anyone know how to get IE6 to  
do the float and the overflow together?

Thanks!


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Re: [css-d] IE6 - float + overflow:auto problems

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Rolf Mortenson wrote:
> I was building a proof-of-concept for myself, and bumped into a 
> problem in IE that I can't seem to solve.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/ytr6qf

> ...in IE6, div.big gets pushed down below the floated div#togglebar. 
> I've tried every trick I can think of, but it won't cooperate. Anyone
> know how to get IE6 to do the float and the overflow together?

Easy to solve for that case, by adding...

* html .big {float: left; margin: 0 -175px 0 -10px;}

...using negative margins on floats.
However, this solution will only work when you know the (more or less
exact) element-width and how much to subtract from it.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] IE6 - float + overflow:auto problems

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> However, this solution will only work when you know the (more or less
>  exact) element-width and how much to subtract from it.

It will also fail when the div is expanded, because you can't clear
below '.big'.

-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] IE6 - float + overflow:auto problems

[Rolf Mortenson]

> Rolf Mortenson wrote:
> > I was building a proof-of-concept for myself, and bumped into a
> > problem in IE that I can't seem to solve.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ytr6qf
>
> > ...in IE6, div.big gets pushed down below the floated div#togglebar.
> > I've tried every trick I can think of, but it won't cooperate.  
> Anyone
> > know how to get IE6 to do the float and the overflow together?
>
> Easy to solve for that case, by adding...
>
> * html .big {float: left; margin: 0 -175px 0 -10px;}
>
> ...using negative margins on floats.
> However, this solution will only work when you know the (more or less
> exact) element-width and how much to subtract from it.
>
> regards
>   Georg

So... if I muck up the markup a bit more by adding an additional div  
inside div#right with a very wide fixed width div, and apply the  
float and negative margins appropriately, IE might cooperate with  
oversized content inside of it?

Or I switch to positioning of div.togglebar?

thanks Georg
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Re: [css-d] IE6 - float + overflow:auto problems

[Rolf Mortenson]

>
> Easy to solve for that case, by adding...
>
> * html .big {float: left; margin: 0 -175px 0 -10px;}
>
> ...using negative margins on floats.
> However, this solution will only work when you know the (more or less
> exact) element-width and how much to subtract from it.
>
> regards
>   Georg
>
>
> So... if I muck up the markup a bit more by adding an additional  
> div inside div#right with a very wide fixed width div, and apply  
> the float and negative margins appropriately, IE might cooperate  
> with oversized content inside of it?
>
> Or I switch to positioning of div.togglebar?
>
> thanks Georg

Now that I think about it... that wouldn't work very well either,  
since I'd always have a horizontal scrollbar :-(
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Re: [css-d] IE6 - float + overflow:auto problems

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> It will also fail when the div is expanded, because you can't clear 
> below '.big'.

So, the only solution seems to be to wrap a div around everything below
#togglebar, and float that div with a negative backside margin - only in
IE6 and below.

HTML:







Lorem ipsum dolor ...



Lorem ipsum dolor ...





CSS:

* html #fixie {float: left; margin-right: -50%; width: 720px;}


No need to mess with '.big' for IE6 then.

regards
Georg
-- 
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[css-d] custom 'search' text box

[Web Developer]

Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone had any tutorials on how to make a custom
input box like the websites below. You can see their 'search' input
textboxes are customized.
I assume allofmp3 does some funkiness with position: relative;. not
sure about 1st trillians website though.

http://trillian.cc/support/
http://allofmp3.com/

Thanks,
Ari
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[css-d] (no subject)

[Rolf Mortenson]

> Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> > It will also fail when the div is expanded, because you can't clear
> > below '.big'.
>
> So, the only solution seems to be to wrap a div around everything  
> below
> #togglebar, and float that div with a negative backside margin -  
> only in
> IE6 and below.

Well, I built an alternate version that feeds IE6 positioned elements  
instead of floated, and it seems to work, even with the animated  
panel... still just working through the concept... just hadn't come  
across that particular flavor of IE6-challenge

http://tinyurl.com/29lrdw

thanks for showing me an opening!

Rolf
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Re: [css-d] IE6 - float + overflow:auto problems

[Rolf Mortenson]

sorry -- that went out without a proper subject line.

> Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> > It will also fail when the div is expanded, because you can't clear
> > below '.big'.
>
> So, the only solution seems to be to wrap a div around everything  
> below
> #togglebar, and float that div with a negative backside margin -  
> only in
> IE6 and below.

Well, I built an alternate version that feeds IE6 positioned elements  
instead of floated, and it seems to work, even with the animated  
panel... still just working through the concept... just hadn't come  
across that particular flavor of IE6-challenge

http://tinyurl.com/29lrdw

thanks for showing me an opening!

Rolf

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Re: [css-d] Worth the candle?

[Blake]

On 3/1/07, Luis Speciale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will be happy to hear (to read) your comments, if appropriate !-)

Hi, it looks like you've designed the layout with 800 x 600 in mind,
however the layout is too wide. You should drop it down to a maximum
of about 780px if you want it to fit in a browser window that's 800px
wide.

Other than that it seems to work nicely.

-- 
Australian Web Designer - http://www.blakehaswell.com/
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