[css-d] Float doesn't shrink fit content under Safari - any workarounds?

2008-06-10 Thread Timothy Armes
Hi,

I'm struggling with a Safari float shrinking problem and I'm
desperately seeking a solution.  I've spent days on the issue now.

I have a floated container containing floated fixed sized divs. On FF
the container shrinks to fit the contents, as is correct for a
widthless float. In Safari however the container isn't shrinking, it's
taking up 100% of the available width.

Here's some minimal code that displays the problem:


   
  
 #a { float: left; background-color: red; }
 .b { float: left;
  display: block;
  width: 300px;
  height: 300px;
  background-color: green;
  border: white solid 2px;
}
  
   
   
  
 
 
 
 
   


When the window is wide enough to display the 3 blocks the behaviour
is as expected and the container shrink wraps the floats. However,
when the window is made narrower we see that the container takes up
the full width of the window when it should still be shrinking to fit
the contents, as it does on FF.

You can also see the bug  in action here:

http://www.timothyarmes.com/gallery.php?lang=en-gb&sec=personal

It's slightly more complicated than the minimal version above, but the
problem is the same. In this case the floated outer container is
centered on the page and there should be a white border around the
images. In the case of Safari, as in my test code, my outer container
takes up the available width. This has two side effects:

1) The images aren't centered (because the container is too wide)
2) My border is far too wide on the right hand side.

Any help with this issue would be greatly appreciated,

Tim
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Re: [css-d] Float doesn't shrink fit content under Safari - any workarounds?

2008-06-10 Thread Bruno Fassino
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Timothy Armes wrote:
>
> I'm struggling with a Safari float shrinking problem and I'm
> desperately seeking a solution.  I've spent days on the issue now.
>
> I have a floated container containing floated fixed sized divs. On FF
> the container shrinks to fit the contents, as is correct for a
> widthless float. In Safari however the container isn't shrinking, it's
> taking up 100% of the available width.
[...]
>
> When the window is wide enough to display the 3 blocks the behaviour
> is as expected and the container shrink wraps the floats. However,
> when the window is made narrower we see that the container takes up
> the full width of the window when it should still be shrinking to fit
> the contents, as it does on FF.
>
> You can also see the bug  in action here:
>
> http://www.timothyarmes.com/gallery.php?lang=en-gb&sec=personal

On the above page, what you see in Safari occurs in Firefox 3 beta as
well. And I believe it is not wrong according to the definition of the
shrink-to-fit algorithm in the spec [1].  When the "preferred width"
(no inserted line breaks) cannot be used because it is greater than
the available width, then the width "jumps" to the latter. In other
words, roughly speaking, the spec says: fit the content if you don't
need to break it, but as soon as you need to break some lines then use
all the available width.
Once line breaks are determined you would like to have a sort of extra
step to fit the placed contents. This 'extra fit' (not required by the
spec) is done by Opera (and by FF2), and it would indeed be sometimes
desirable, but I don't know how to get it with current CSS.

Bruno


[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#float-width

-- 
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Re: [css-d] Float doesn't shrink fit content under Safari - any workarounds?

2008-06-10 Thread Timothy Armes
> Once line breaks are determined you would like to have a sort of extra
> step to fit the placed contents. This 'extra fit' (not required by the
> spec) is done by Opera (and by FF2), and it would indeed be sometimes
> desirable, but I don't know how to get it with current CSS.

Thanks, I now understand the reason for my problem.

If anyone out there has a solution I'd be a very happy man.
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Re: [css-d] Float doesn't shrink fit content under Safari - any workarounds?

2008-06-10 Thread Bill Brown
Timothy Armes wrote:
>> Once line breaks are determined you would like to have a sort of extra
>> step to fit the placed contents. This 'extra fit' (not required by the
>> spec) is done by Opera (and by FF2), and it would indeed be sometimes
>> desirable, but I don't know how to get it with current CSS.
> 
> Thanks, I now understand the reason for my problem.
> 
> If anyone out there has a solution I'd be a very happy man.

Hi Timothy --

To add to what Bruno has already put forward, you might also consider
taking another look at your code. It's incredibly difficult to fix a CSS
problem with invalid code. You've written your code in XHTML
Transitional, which is more for migrating old sites and documents than
for the creation of new ones. It almost implies that you can't be
bothered to follow all the specs, which I know is not the case.

The W3C Validator returns 104 errors [1] for your XHTML source code
(many of which are probably solved by properly closing a few tags here
and there) and the W3C Jigsaw Validator [2] (for CSS) returns 11 errors.
While it doesn't appear that this would fix your problem since you've
included a simpler test case, it'll save you a lot of headaches later on.

I tested both your website and the simplified code on:
 - Firefox 3/Ubuntu Hardy
 - Konqueror 4.0.5/Ubuntu Hardy
 - Safari 3.1.1/Vista (Hardly)
The behavior in the test case is not the same as it is on your website -
the float shrinks correctly in the test case for all browsers tested.
I'll have another look at it if you like after you've fixed the
validation errors. Your CSS seems quite complicated for a simple (though
nice) layout, so I'm also not sure what else you've got going on in there.

Hope it helps!
Bill Brown
TheHolierGrail.com

[1]:
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timothyarmes.com%2Fgallery.php%3Flang%3Den-gb%26sec%3Dpersonal
[2]:
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21&warning=0&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timothyarmes.com%2Fgallery.php%3Flang%3Den-gb%26sec%3Dpersonal
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Re: [css-d] Anchor hover in IE 6 'absorbs' margin of above element

2008-06-10 Thread Jonny Stephens
On 3 Jun 2008, at 21:55, David Laakso wrote:

> Patrick James wrote:
>> http://www.patrickjames.me.uk/test.html
>>
>> In Internet Explorer 6 when the mouse cursor hovers over the anchor
>> elements they turn red, as they should, but  Link 002, Link 003 and
>> Link 004 'bunch up' against the box above in the list.
>>
>> They are kept apart by a 5 pixel margin applied to the anchor  
>> element.
>> It looks like on hover the element being hovered over 'absorbs' the
>> margin above.
>>
>> I can't work out a remedy and so I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>>
>> Patrick
>
> Couple of things:
>
> You have targeted the a
> #nav001 a {
> }
> #nav001 a:hover {
> }
> Instead, target li a
> #nav001 li a {
> }
> #nav001 li a:hover {
> }
> And remove the margin-bottom:
> #nav001 li a {
> /*margin: 0 0 5px 0; delete*/
> margin:0 /*add*/;
> }

And if a margin is required, apply it to #nav001 li rather than  
#nav001 li a.

Jonny
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Re: [css-d] Anchor hover in IE 6 'absorbs' margin of above element

2008-06-10 Thread David Laakso
Jonny Stephens wrote:
> On 3 Jun 2008, at 21:55, David Laakso wrote:
>
>   
>> Patrick James wrote:
>> 
>>> http://www.patrickjames.me.uk/test.html
>>>
>>> In Internet Explorer 6 when the mouse cursor hovers over the anchor
>>> elements they turn red, as they should, but  Link 002, Link 003 and
>>> Link 004 'bunch up' against the box above in the list.
>>>
>>> They are kept apart by a 5 pixel margin applied to the anchor  
>>> element.
>>> It looks like on hover the element being hovered over 'absorbs' the
>>> margin above.
>>>
>>> I can't work out a remedy and so I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>   
>> Couple of things:
>>
>> You have targeted the a
>> #nav001 a {
>> }
>> #nav001 a:hover {
>> }
>> Instead, target li a
>> #nav001 li a {
>> }
>> #nav001 li a:hover {
>> }
>> And remove the margin-bottom:
>> #nav001 li a {
>> /*margin: 0 0 5px 0; delete*/
>> margin:0 /*add*/;
>> }
>> 
>
> And if a margin is required, apply it to #nav001 li rather than  
> #nav001 li a.
>
> Jonny
>   



But, if you do so, check the /page/ cross-browser as it may no longer 
look the same (render the same) in the IE's as in compliant browsers. Or 
will it?







-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Float doesn't shrink fit content under Safari - any workarounds?

2008-06-10 Thread Timothy Armes
Hi Bill,

> To add to what Bruno has already put forward, you might also consider
> taking another look at your code. It's incredibly difficult to fix a CSS
> problem with invalid code. You've written your code in XHTML
> Transitional, which is more for migrating old sites and documents than
> for the creation of new ones. It almost implies that you can't be
> bothered to follow all the specs, which I know is not the case.

It's now XHTML strict.
r
>
> I tested both your website and the simplified code on:
>  - Firefox 3/Ubuntu Hardy
>  - Konqueror 4.0.5/Ubuntu Hardy
>  - Safari 3.1.1/Vista (Hardly)
>
> The behavior in the test case is not the same as it is on your website -
> the float shrinks correctly in the test case for all browsers tested.

Odd, because it doesn't behave as I wish under Safari/Mac.  Or,
apparantly, FF3, and that's really annoying.

> I'll have another look at it if you like after you've fixed the
> validation errors. Your CSS seems quite complicated for a simple (though
> nice) layout, so I'm also not sure what else you've got going on in there.

Thanks for your offer.  I've now fixed the validation errors.

Most of the complexity comes from the fact that I'm trying to center
the gallery whilst resting fluid.  I'm using the technique of placing
the contents in a div positioned at 50% and then using an inner div to
shift back buy half its own width.

Of course, this is all pointless in safari since the inner div is
taking up all the width for the reasons explained by Bruno.

Surely there's a solution?

Tim
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Re: [css-d] Anchor hover in IE 6 'absorbs' margin of above element

2008-06-10 Thread Patrick James
Hi Jonny and David

This was the fault and I discovered it a day or two after posting :)

The margin is now on the 'li' and all is fine in all browsers I've  
tried.

Patrick

On 10 Jun 2008, at 14:35, David Laakso wrote:

>> And if a margin is required, apply it to #nav001 li rather than
>> #nav001 li a.
>>
>> Jonny
>>
>
>
>
> But, if you do so, check the /page/ cross-browser as it may no longer
> look the same (render the same) in the IE's as in compliant  
> browsers. Or
> will it?

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[css-d] CSS popup not popping in IE

2008-06-10 Thread Nancy E. Sosna Bohm
This pure-css popup works in FireFox, but not IE.
http://tinyurl.com/6xkooa

The css is:

div#popup a span {display:none;}
div#popup a:hover span {display: block;
   position: absolute; top: 150px; left:330px; width: 300px;
   padding: 5px; margin: 10px; z-index: 100;
   color:#00; background-color:cc;
   font: 10px arial; text-align:left;border:1px solid #00;
  }

The html is:


some text here

roughly half 

footnote-ish text here


remainder of some text here


When you mouse over the word "roughly," the footnote-ish text pops up.
Why doesn't it work in IE?

TIA,
Nancy

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[css-d] Fixed LI dimension with XHTML

2008-06-10 Thread andreas
Hi
 
Is it possible to display a unordered list inline, have a hyperlink fill the 
full size of the LI element and force the LI element to have a fixed dimension
using XHTML? It works if I just let it fall back to QUIRKSMODE but obviously I 
don't want that =)
 
I'm trying to make six LI elements horizontally line up and have a dimension of 
150x80 pixels and have the entire LI be covered by a hyperlink element. I've
tried these two doctypes with the same outcome. Its only been tested on IE7 so 
far...  IE7, FF, Safari would be nice to have it work in
 
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";>
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>
 
 
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>
Test

 
 * {border: 0;margin: 0;padding: 0; }  body {font-family: 
Verdana, Helvetica, Sans-Serif;font-size: .75em; }#menu {
background-color: #0f0;width: 900px; }  #menu ul { padding: 2px; 
position: relative; text-align: left; }
 #menu ul li { display: inline; background-color: #000; list-style: 
none; width: 150px;
 height: 80px;; }
 #menu ul li a { color: #aaa; font-weight: bold; line-height: 
2.8em; padding: 10px 20px; text-decoration: none; width: 100%;
 height: 100%; }
 #menu ul li a:hover { color: #fff; text-decoration: none; }
 #menu ul li a:active { background-color: #a6e2a6; text-decoration: 
none; }
 #menu ul li.selected a { background-color: #FFF; color: #000; } 


  Home Page   New Product   Specials   My Account   Contact Us   

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Re: [css-d] CSS popup not popping in IE

2008-06-10 Thread Kepler Gelotte
> When you mouse over the word "roughly," the footnote-ish text pops up.
> Why doesn't it work in IE?

Hi Nancy,

Try changing  to 

Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904

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Re: [css-d] Fixed LI dimension with XHTML

2008-06-10 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On Jun 11, 2008, at 5:39 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 > wrote:

> Is it possible to display a unordered list inline, have a hyperlink  
> fill the full size of the LI element and force the LI element to  
> have a fixed dimension
> using XHTML? It works if I just let it fall back to QUIRKSMODE but  
> obviously I don't want that =)
>
> I'm trying to make six LI elements horizontally line up and have a  
> dimension of 150x80 pixels and have the entire LI be covered by a  
> hyperlink element. I've
> tried these two doctypes with the same outcome. Its only been tested  
> on IE7 so far...  IE7, FF, Safari would be nice to have it work in
>
> #menu ul li { display: inline; background-color: #000;  
> list-style: none; width: 150px;
> height: 80px;; }

width and height do not apply to inline elements


You could float your 's:
#menu ul li {float:left; width:150px; ..}

locking the height is not a good idea, it could give strange results  
if the user has a different font-size than the one you have choosen.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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[css-d] How would you approach an organization chart in CSS?

2008-06-10 Thread Conjurer
I need to redo a organization chart that is a graphic and therefore not 
editable.

I could rework it in another graphic, but I was trying to think how you 
could do it with just markup and CSS.

It is a tree with a President at the root, 4 positions under him, and 
two of those have a level of four under them (8 total).
Then there is a fourth layer that reports to the third level with 6 
different people.

You can see the current org chart here: 
http://www.lechess.com/management.htm

Anyone have any thought on this?

Thanks!



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[css-d] overflow bg image

2008-06-10 Thread Matt Tibbits
Hello,

 

Probably an easy fix but I'm not sure how to do it: 

 

I have a bg image on a   tag that is positioned bottom, right. In IE7
the bg image is actually stuck to the bottom right of the viewing port, but
in FF the bottom, right of the content or body tag. 

 

You can view this at http://www.tchh.org/new/

 

Thank you,

 

Matt Tibbits

 

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Re: [css-d] How would you approach an organization chart in CSS?

2008-06-10 Thread Bob Meetin
You said just markup and CSS, but honestly this sounds more like a table with 
many of the cells spanning multiple columns and perhaps a narrow vertical 
background image used as the vertical line.

Conjurer wrote:
> I need to redo a organization chart that is a graphic and therefore not 
> editable.
> 
> I could rework it in another graphic, but I was trying to think how you 
> could do it with just markup and CSS.
> 
> It is a tree with a President at the root, 4 positions under him, and 
> two of those have a level of four under them (8 total).
> Then there is a fourth layer that reports to the third level with 6 
> different people.
> 
> You can see the current org chart here: 
> http://www.lechess.com/management.htm
> 
> Anyone have any thought on this?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 


-- 
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dotted i - Internet Strategies & Solutions
www.dottedi.biz
303-926-0167

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Re: [css-d] How would you approach an organization chart in CSS?

2008-06-10 Thread Patrick James
Hi

I think it could be done with a lot of absolute positioning but  
personally I would just rework it as another graphic in a vector  
drawing program, then export that as a .png and use that.

When you need to edit it, do it in the vector drawing program and  
export again as .png for use on web.

Patrick

On 11 Jun 2008, at 00:51, Conjurer wrote:

> I need to redo a organization chart that is a graphic and therefore  
> not
> editable.
>
> I could rework it in another graphic, but I was trying to think how  
> you
> could do it with just markup and CSS.
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Re: [css-d] overflow bg image

2008-06-10 Thread Bill Brown
Matt Tibbits wrote:
> I have a bg image on a   tag that is positioned bottom, right. In IE7
> the bg image is actually stuck to the bottom right of the viewing port, but
> in FF the bottom, right of the content or body tag. 
> 
> You can view this at http://www.tchh.org/new/

Hi Matt,

This should help:
html{height:100%;margin:0;padding:0;}

Good luck,
Bill Brown
TheHolierGrail.com
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Re: [css-d] How would you approach an organization chart in CSS?

2008-06-10 Thread Michael Stevens
Looks like a table to me... I wouldn't be afraid of using a table for it but
making it a graphic would be MUCH easier than screwing with any HTML
element.

Mike

-Original Message-
> I need to redo a organization chart that is a graphic and therefore 
> not editable.
>
> I could rework it in another graphic, but I was trying to think how 
> you could do it with just markup and CSS.

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Re: [css-d] overflow bg image

2008-06-10 Thread Matt Tibbits
Almost, although now the bg image will not stop when it reaches the TOP of
the view port in FF. It keeps being pushed up as the window is resized...

Matt
 

> 
> Hi Matt,
> 
> This should help:
> html{height:100%;margin:0;padding:0;}
> 


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Re: [css-d] overflow bg image

2008-06-10 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On Jun 11, 2008, at 9:06 AM, Matt Tibbits wrote:

> Probably an easy fix but I'm not sure how to do it:
>
>
>
> I have a bg image on a   tag that is positioned bottom, right.  
> In IE7
> the bg image is actually stuck to the bottom right of the viewing  
> port, but
> in FF the bottom, right of the content or body tag.
>
>
>
> You can view this at http://www.tchh.org/new/

Not sure if I understand what you want. The background-image should  
always be at the bottom right corner of the window ? No matter how  
much content or how tall the window is?

body {background: #ccc url(../path/to/image.png) no-repeat 100% 100%  
fixed;}
out to do just that.

Philippe
---
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http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] How would you approach an organization chart in CSS?

2008-06-10 Thread Zak Owen
I would agree with an image for the kind of char you want, but don't toss
out the idea of reworking the chart to take better advantage of HTML
elements and CSS, such as a hierarchical  - you could have a
class="levelN" (where N is the level, 0, 1, 2, etc) and each class could
have a set indent based on the level and a different icon for each level's
 element.

Use bold/unweighted font for the solid lines vs. Founders and Hon VP (since
they have the dotted lines going on).

Also, tables would do fine, but again you would have to think outside of the
original design.  One idea would be to create a table, make use of  'd
cells in the table for spacing or overflow: auto; for cells (can't remember
if this is legal in a ?).  Instead of solid chart lines, use different
color backgrounds from cell to cell and make your cellspacing and border to
0.

Good Luck!

Zak

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Looks like a table to me... I wouldn't be afraid of using a table for it
> but
> making it a graphic would be MUCH easier than screwing with any HTML
> element.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> > I need to redo a organization chart that is a graphic and therefore
> > not editable.
> >
> > I could rework it in another graphic, but I was trying to think how
> > you could do it with just markup and CSS.
>
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Re: [css-d] CSS popup not popping in IE

2008-06-10 Thread David Hucklesby
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:36:45 -0500, Nancy E. Sosna Bohm wrote:
> This pure-css popup works in FireFox, but not IE.
> http://tinyurl.com/6xkooa
>
> [code snipped]
>
> When you mouse over the word "roughly," the footnote-ish text pops up. Why 
> doesn't it
> work in IE?
>

I *think* that IE needs an extra boost to make it notice the "hover."
Try adding a rule like this:

div#popup a:hover {
background-position: 0 0;
}

More about this here:
http://www.tanfa.co.uk/css/articles/pure-css-popups-bug.asp

Cordially,
David
--

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Re: [css-d] Fixed LI dimension with XHTML

2008-06-10 Thread andreas
Philippe,
 
Why didn't I think of that :) Thank you. However is there anyway I could get 
the hyperlink to fill the entire
LI element once it's been floated? I would like for my mouseover effect to be 
applied when you are over the
entire menu item and not only the text itself.About the fixed height, you are 
right it would be better to apply a min-height then I guess.
 
.Andreas



> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
> css-d@lists.css-discuss.org> Subject: Re: [css-d] Fixed LI dimension with 
> XHTML> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:49:04 +0900> > > On Jun 11, 2008, at 5:39 
> AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote:> > > Is it possible to 
> display a unordered list inline, have a hyperlink > > fill the full size of 
> the LI element and force the LI element to > > have a fixed dimension> > 
> using XHTML? It works if I just let it fall back to QUIRKSMODE but > > 
> obviously I don't want that =)> >> > I'm trying to make six LI elements 
> horizontally line up and have a > > dimension of 150x80 pixels and have the 
> entire LI be covered by a > > hyperlink element. I've> > tried these two 
> doctypes with the same outcome. Its only been tested > > on IE7 so far... 
> IE7, FF, Safari would be nice to have it work in> >> > #menu ul li { display: 
> inline; background-color: #000; > > list-style: none; width: 150px;> > 
> height: 80px;; }> > width and height do not apply to inline elements> 
> > > You could float 
> your 's:> #menu ul li {float:left; width:150px; ..}> > locking the 
> height is not a good idea, it could give strange results > if the user has a 
> different font-size than the one you have choosen.> > Philippe> ---> Philippe 
> Wittenbergh> http://l-c-n.com/> > > > > 
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