Re: [css-d] CSS float not working in IE7
Jo wrote:
http://9dragonsbmx.com/insideaboveall.htm
The photo needs to float to the right and it working fine in Firefox,
but in IE7, the text and INSIDE ABOVE ALL heading are sitting way
underneath and not top/left where they're supposed to. I'm sure it's
something simple, but I can't figure it out.
The image-container expands to full parent-width in IE/win.
Add...
.floatrightindex {width: 430px;}
...to make it shrink to image-width.
BTW: images don't need containers to be controlled, they can float
perfectly well on their own.
regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] Suggestion
Maybe I'm unable to see the advantages of a mailing list over a newsgroup, but till now, I'm not convinced. ;) David Laakso wrote: Re-read the link I sent you (provided again below) on how to bottom post ... I've read it. But, I have no problems about bottom and top post. I'm using an mail client and not the webmail service from gmail, even if I'm over a gmail mail account. Why? I kind of can organize things around here, and have it all on one single client, from meetings, to notes, to several e-mail accounts, all in one front-office that is not ugly I mean, not properly design, I mean, not easy to find what we want for, as google is. and you too can join us in enjoying and helping to keep this list well organized That's why I have suggested the newsgroup. :p and just as it is. The just as it is is not my way of thinking. Sorry. At least will never be without a proper reason for doing so. ;) David Jones Wrote: Email is much more convenient. for example, people still start new threads by replying to an existing email and changing (nor not changing) the subject line instead of sending a new message. At least in my case, Click over Create new or Reply to this it's exactly the same one click. If I click reply to create a new e-mail, however, I need to delete its contents with is unnecessary tedious. Yes you are able to not re-type the initial subject, and you are able to not re-type the css-d@lists.css-discuss.org when you create a new e-mail. But newsgroups work like this also. So, I don't get why is Email much more convenient. Newsgroups are no more organized than email I disagree. On a newsgroup you can easily search old posts/replys/e-mails. Here http://lists.css-discuss.org/mailman/private/css-d/ , you cannot do this, or at least, I don't know a easy way for doing it. On a newsgroup you don't need this rules: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic . :) I know it must give quite a work to add a newsgroup and let him share the same information that the mailing list has. But putting both systems to work, could bring advantages to this community. So... I have to insist on the newsgroup think if no one can give me the right reasons why is a mailing list better then a newsgroup. (In case you haven't notice, I believe it isn't btw. ;) Kind Regards, Márcio __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] positioning problem
The page is here -- http://free.of.pl/r/ramirez/temp/index.htm What I'm trying to do is to put the navigation on the right side of the container. I tried some floating and positioning, but I fail to position this correctly. Anyone could give me a tip on how to do this right? Cheers Tom -- Wymysl wierszyk, wygraj cyfrowke! Sprawdz http://link.interia.pl/f1f5a __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] The 1 px terror - Help.
Gunlaug Sørtun Wrote: When you don't declare font-size and/or line-height, all browsers will use their own default values. I see... so it's default BUT we have to give him same values so he can't default by himself. And since there isn't any update list of what properties the browsers use differently by default and what properties they don't use differently by default, it's a good practice to declare all by ourselves. - Please tell me this is correct (or don't) :) Gunlaug Sørtun Wrote: Actual font-size is always 1em of itself - and also 100% of itself if that makes it any clearer, and that reflection doesn't change no matter what the font-size actually is. A pixel on the other hand is a fixed-size design pixel no matter what, and has no relation whatsoever to font-size. So when we choose em instead of pixel we are saying to the browser, please adapt the font-size according to 1em or 100%. What exactly is 1 em or 100%? It could be the exact value of the font-size, depending on the font we are using. This way we avoid pixel rounding values, because we know that 100% will always be the max-height of a letter for example? Is that it? Thanks a lot, and thanks for the link. I will follow that to. Kind regards, Márcio __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
Hi Peter,
Peter Hyde-Smith wrote:
Ionut wrote
It's because of these elements:
#customer_search_form,
#walkin_customer_button,
#purchase_return_button
...and maybe others.
My advice is to float them left instead of positioning them
relatively. If you float them left, don't forget to also add a
display:inline; after the float: left; declaration. It's for
Internet Explorer's double margin floating bug[1].
Bill:
I would say definitely others, including the header, as outlining
elements in WebDeveloper show a number of elements wider
than my screen width of 1280px.
Thanks for mentioning WebDeveloper. I hadn't downloaded it; have been
getting by pretty well (I thought) with Firebug. This is GREAT! Amazing
amount of info / capabilities for layout. Now I just have to figure out
how to use it all ;-)
Are you trying for a max page width of 1024px (~78em)?
You'd set that through CSS, such as
#somewrapper{width: 98%; max-width: 78em;}, as well as using float
technique above.
Yes, 1024 is our target. Thanks very much for the code. I'll give it a try
immediately.
IMO, you've got a ton of CSS;
Yeah. My guess is that, if I had a better understanding of CSS, more time,
or both, I'd probably be able to refactor this down to about half a ton
less.
maybe want to more distinctly separate basic layout CSS from
fiddley-bits.
Here's a good test re: CSS expertise level: being able to tell the
difference between the two ;-) I'd sure appreciate any specific
recommendations along that line, or pointers to online content I could learn
from.
Also, recommend setting font-size in % instead of fixed pixels,
for browser friendly resizing.
I'm not familiar with setting font-size in %; just em and px. I thought
em-based sizing was the way to go for accomodating resizing. Just goes to
show ya. I'll look into it. Any good cheat sheets for making the
translations?
Thanks much for your help. I appreciate it!
Bill
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Re: [css-d] CSS tables
The rant is fine, though the link you sent is broken. I wonder if you have a current link, I'm curious. I also felt the Sitepoint article and book was reaching to make something out of nothing. In the long run, it will be great if all browsers can implement standards and if standards can provide some really useful tools. I also suspect that having to reach for solutions had inspired some creativity that may never have surfaced if tables had been the only available positioning tool. --Kenoli On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] discuss.org] On Behalf Of Kenoli Oleari Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:10 PM To: CSS Mailing List Subject: Re: [css-d] CSS tables The Sitepoint book proposes beginning to move away from IE 67, offering several strategies for doing this, all with the goal of pushing people to upgrade to IE8. It suggests that this is the beginning of a new cycle that will push CSS and site design to a new level eventually and sooner if there is a new press toward conforming to an improving CSS standards. I read the Sitepoint article as well as the Web-digital one, I really don't think this kind of article will help the community to go forward as they are presented in a purely academic way. And because these demos are not for the real world, people look at them as nothing else than experiments. Imho this goes against what you're saying . Web designers who could have made the effort won't go there because of poor browser support and those who're still living in 1998 are too happy to badmouth the technique as another failure of CSS when it comes to build browser-friendly layouts. Anyway, as some of us have shown before there are other ways to make it work in IE: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no _joke.asp And to answer your other point. As Ingo mentioned in one of the comments following the Sitepoint article [1], the real deal is not display:table, but inline-block! Sorry for the rant :-( [1] http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/02/28/table-based-layout-is-the-next-big -thing/#comment-654940 -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] positioning problem
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://free.of.pl/r/ramirez/temp/index.htm
What I'm trying to do is to put the navigation on the right side of
the container.
To absolute position it, add...
#Content {
position: relative;
}
...to establish a relation for A:P.
Then use these nav-styles...
#navlist {
border-bottom: 1px solid gray;
width: 200px;
position: absolute;
right: 1px;
top: 150px;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
Adjust 'top' to taste.
regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
Hi Ionut, Ionut Gabriel Stan wrote: Bill Walton wrote: I can't figure out why I have a horizontal scroll bar at http://www.shopkeepers-r.us or how to get rid of it. The current plan is for the browser window to be maximized with the screen resolution set at 1024x768. I'd sure appreciate help. Resource pointers that would help me understand why this is happening would _really_ be appreciated. It's because of these elements: #customer_search_form, #walkin_customer_button, #purchase_return_button ...and maybe others. The explanation is that you positioned them relatively with a large left offset but forgot to change them the width value which right now is 100% of the body width - 1264px in FF3. Thank you very much for this. One big question... how / where is the body width specified? I thought it might have to do with body width and went through all the CSS (I think) without finding it. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing? My advice is to float them left instead of positioning them relatively. I'll try this, but I thought that an element had to be positioned relative in _order_ to float it. Wrong? If you float them left, don't forget to also add a display:inline; after the float: left; declaration. It's for Internet Explorer's double margin floating bug[1]. [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/doubled-margin.html The best news is that this _only_ has to be styled for FF ;-) Thanks very much for your help. I appreciate it! Best regards, Bill __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Strange behavior in Fireworks
I just finished doing a website with navigation buttons at the top of each page which are actually produced by a largish graphic that shifts around with CSS telling it where to go. These button work fine in the latest versions of Safari Explorer, Opera, and Chrome on both Windows and Mac, but the latest versions of Firefox on both Mac and Win produce long blue and red lines projecting off to the left side of the display when they are clicked. It must be a CSS problem, but I can't figure out what. I'm surprised since Firefox is supposed to be so savvy with CSS. Here is the URL: http://www.boletta.com/aau/ CSS is here: http://www.boletta.com/aau/portfolio.css There are also additional local CSS stylesheets in the head tag of each page which you can access by calling up the source in browsers. Any suggestions for correcting this problem would be appreciated. I'm already late for a deadline. Many thanks, Bill Boletta [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] positioning problem
Add these properties to your #navlist -
#navlist
{
float: left;
border-bottom: 1px solid gray;
width: 200px;
*position:absolute;
right: 10px;
top: 20px;*
}
Alternatively, you could also block out content using divs to achieve some
fine control over your layout.
- Mustafa
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Re: [css-d] Suggestion
OK Now I get why I'm having such nice responses to my suggestion. :) My Bad. Bill Wrote: I'm not sure you've given any reasons why a newsgroup is better than a mailing list, either. This was my bad: Please have in mind that I do not intent to say: Newsgroup is better than mailing list. I don't agree with that. When I came, in my first mail, with the suggestion, we move from a mailing list to a Newsgroup I do not intend to say: let's leave one to have another. I intended to say: Both option can be available. If one wants, he changes to newsgroup, if not, keep on a mailing-list. I do intend to say, Newsgroup, in some scenarios, may have some advantages over a mailing list. I'm talking about having both and not one instead of another, even if, for my personal use, and others that may have the same scenario, this may be a switch to better solution. For example, if you use a e-mail client like Outlook Express or Outlook with a newsreader: . You can search, in the same environment where you post or reply, the old posts. . You can distinguish more clearly the questions from the reply's. . You don't need to worry about bottom to top or top to bottom ways of seeing it. Bill, I was talking about this http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=GmailAndCssDiscuss and not the other one. Sorry for that. Let us know how to register for it once you get it going. Sure Ok. I will only do that, however, if I believe I'm not on a solipsist movement here, that's why I've post this suggestion. Once again, sorry for the misinterpretation on the first e-mail with the suggestion. Kind Regards, Márcio Ps- Go here: http://css-discuss.markmail.org/; Thanks. It works really nice. I liken this to suggesting that we help people remember the names of all fifty United States by rearranging geographically into alphabetical order. I will always ask why if, I don't understand why that is the BEST reason for doing it. So if I believe that there is a different way for memorizing the states, I will post it here. I can understand this to some extent: You're saying that just because something has always been one way doesn't mean that's the right way. No. What I'm saying is just because something has always been one way doesn't mean that's the BEST way. I think David is saying, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have to agree with David. Now that I've clarify that I was thinking about having both and not one instead of another, it's useless to think it as a fix and broke, and see it more like an add-on. But, I still don't agree with the fact that If it ain't broke, don't fix it. IF you mean by that: if it isn't broke, leave it that way. As an classical example: Kopernik developed the heliocentric theory. But, actually, the predictions made around those centuries were more connected with the geocentric theories then with heliocentric theories. Even if, we should be glad that Kopernik had developed that theory, even if, the system was not broken. Convenient is subject to opinion. I believe everything is subject to opinion, that's why we should keep searching the best system. So, when someone states: mailing list is more convenient then newsgroups, even if it's an opinion, it should be justified. You're pretty clearly set on having a newsgroup and I think it's a great idea. Really? For the sound of your e-mail I was saying that you don't. AT ALL. :p __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Suggestion
Quoting MEM [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can I suggest that I we move from a mailing list to a Newsgroup. Yes, you can. However, we will not. css-discuss is a mailing list, and will remain so until it disbands. Anyone who wishes to establish a CSS newsgroup may do so, and I'll even look favorably on announcing its creation here (but check with me first, please). Do look around to see if there are already CSS newsgroups in existence that would serve the intended purpose, though. As for the rest of this thread, it's similarly off-topic, and needs to end right now. Thank you. -- Eric A. Meyer List Chaperone __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] hovering over hyperlink makes div move in IE6 (like its parents padding gets cut in half suddenly)
Here is a theme I am messing with... http://www.arianhojat.com/temp/css_test/test.html You can see when you hover over Home breadcrumb, that it expands the div ( the parent container has 5% padding, and it seems to get cut in half when hovering over hyperlink). i set a zoom:1 on the .breadcrumb to stop the h2 above it from moving too, but setting zoom:1 on hyperlink doesn't do the same for that. Anyone know what IE bug I have? Trying to debug it. Thought it was 'display:inline' on floats, but that element isnt floated. Thought maybe hasLayout is needed on that element, but wrong again. Not sure. Thanks!, Arian __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Strange behavior in Fireworks
Add this to your style sheet -
*:focus { outline: 0; }*
I'm not too savvy with css, however, Firefox *is* :)
I would love to know the reason behind this behavior and also good resources
to learn how to use css sprites(I wanted to ask about this to someone, so
thought this would be a good time to ask for it).
Thank you.
- Mustafa
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Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:01:19 -0600 Came this utterance fomulated by Peter Hyde-Smith to my mailbox: [snip] IMO, you've got a ton of CSS; maybe want to more distinctly separate basic layout CSS from fiddley-bits. Also, recommend setting font-size in % instead of fixed pixels, for browser friendly resizing. Setting all font sizes in % is not recommended. nested table cells, paragraphs, lists or blockquotes inherit their font size then apply the percent again, so you can get 66% of 66% or 44% as a result. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] CSS help - IE problems
Al Kendall wrote: Looking at trying to find a solution to my site (www.alsfitt.com) which when viewed in IE it is much lager than in the gecko browsers. Not sure what you mean. Please clarify the question: when viewed in IE it is much lager than in the gecko browsers. The page appears relatively the same on this end in compliant browsers and IE/7 (with content cross-over overlapping on a drag to windows 1024 and 800). There are additional issues in IE/6. -- A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] CSS tables
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] discuss.org] On Behalf Of Kenoli Oleari Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:33 AM To: CSS Mailing List Subject: Re: [css-d] CSS tables The rant is fine, though the link you sent is broken. I wonder if you have a current link, I'm curious. I guess wrapping was the issue. Here is a shorter URL: http://tinyurl.com/float-less-layouts I also felt the Sitepoint article and book was reaching to make something out of nothing. I agree. It's not much more exciting than http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#table-display In the long run, it will be great if all browsers can implement standards and if standards can provide some really useful tools. I also suspect that having to reach for solutions had inspired some creativity that may never have surfaced if tables had been the only available positioning tool. imho, what make people look for solutions is not related to the tools, but to the fact that browsers are broken or can't do what we want them to do ;) -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Suggestion
On 2008/11/04 02:02 (GMT) MEM composed: Suggestion: Can I suggest that I we move from a mailing list to a Newsgroup. :D I know is quite a request but... thinks may be more organized in a answer. question way. :) Once upon a time long ago I thought a newsgroup was clearly better than a mailing list, so I wrote this comparison of a mailing list to a newsgroup: http://fm.no-ip.com/listcompare.html#START There is already a CSS newsgroup: news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets -- Love is not easily angered. Love does not demand its own way. 1 Corinthians 13:5 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] The 1 px terror - Help.
From: Michael Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 07:04:52 +1300 To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org Subject: Re: [css-d] The 1 px terror - Help. On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:36:46 + Came this utterance fomulated by MEM to my mailbox: Gunlaug Sørtun Wrote: When you don't declare font-size and/or line-height, all browsers will use their own default values. I see... so it's default BUT we have to give him same values so he can'tdefault by himself. And since there isn't any update list of what properties the browsers use differently by default and what properties they don't use differently by default, it's a good practice to declare all by ourselves. - Please tell me this is correct (or don't) :) This is a philosophical choice. Do i want to control the user experience? versus Do i allow the user to control how they see my website?. The user can overrule practically anything you set anyway, and WCAG recommendations see that as a good thing. http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/fontsize.html http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/ May help you see things differently. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 I feel that setting font size, line height, etc. is about ensuring consistency in the display of your content in any particular browser. It has no relevance in controlling the user experience -- unless you choose to use absolute length units. Eric Meyer expressed this very nicely (http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/): ... Think of these as a starting point for creating your own defaults, in addition to being a way to illuminate the nature of browser defaults. Simply the act of taking those defaults into consideration and thinking about them closely puts you ahead of 99% of your peers. I do think that reset styles are quite useful; otherwise, I wouldn't have written about them here, and certainly not to the extent that I have. My hope is that people will use them as a launch pad for their own resets and for deeper thinking about styling and browsers. I use Tantek Celik's undohtml.css as a base for all my pages: http://tantek.com/log/2004/09.html --- Alyda __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Fade to black or the standards battle is lost (US election day)
Gabriele Romanato wrote: I've just finished to validate the markup and the CSS of the sites of Obama and McCain. The results are horrible: thousands errors! While I'm listening to Fade to black (Metallica), I'm just wondering why the standard are neglected in such a way. do you have an answer that could save my trust in a better web? Standards are there to make our working together easier and handovers or working with third parties less painful. They are an agreement between developers how to work together. For web standards it also *should* mean that your development process has predictable outcomes as the browser vendors adhere to these standards. In the past this was not the case, which had positives and negatives (we would not have Ajax had Microsoft not violated the ecmascript standard and enhanced on it). Now it is more and more and even IE in its 8th permutation is a great, standards compliant browser. Where it goes pear-shaped is that end users (and especially IT departments who are the only ones that can upgrade software in a lot of companies) do not upgrade browsers as browsers aren't seen as something that needs maintenance but comes with the operating system. This is why to have the largest reach some people consider it needed that we don't follow standards but test with all browsers over and over again. An election campaign site is not meant to be forever, so I guess they wanted to make it work now. For non-temporary sites this is not a safe way of thinking as it is short-sighted and you'll have to re-evaluate whenever a new browser comes around. A more mature and safer way of thinking browser support whilst following standards is a graded support, as explained for example here: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Ordered and Unordered Lists
I just noticed that apparently the full spectrum of list-style-types apply equally to both ordered lists and unordered lists. So, ordered lists can have a list-style-type of disc and unordered lists can have a list-style-type of decimal. Does anyone see any reason why ALL list-style-types can't be applied to both ordered and unordered lists? I guess the only reason that we have 2 types of lists is backward compatibility. Thanks for any input. ... doug __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Ordered and Unordered Lists
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Doug Jolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just noticed that apparently the full spectrum of list-style-types apply equally to both ordered lists and unordered lists. So, ordered lists can have a list-style-type of disc and unordered lists can have a list-style-type of decimal. Does anyone see any reason why ALL list-style-types can't be applied to both ordered and unordered lists? I guess the only reason that we have 2 types of lists is backward compatibility. Thanks for any input. ... doug Doug, So far as markup is concerned, there is a good reason for ul and ol to me. ul = Here's a bunch of garbage in no particular order ol = I spent time putting this in order, so it needs to be noted. Style wise, I can see using an ul with decimal styling if you're not concerned with the markup showing that it's supposed to be in a particular order, you just want the users blessed with style to have the convenience of seeing your cherished list to be in an apparent numerical order. Ultimately, where styles are concerned, I don't see a reason why not. Others more qualified may have a different opinion, but I believe it matters in the markup: ul if you don't care, and ol if you do. -- -Jack Timmons http://www.trotlc.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Ordered and Unordered Lists
--- On Tue, 11/4/08, Doug Jolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just noticed that apparently the full spectrum of list-style-types apply equally to both ordered lists and unordered lists. So, ordered lists can have a list-style-type of disc and unordered lists can have a list-style-type of decimal. Does anyone see any reason why ALL list-style-types can't be applied to both ordered and unordered lists? I guess the only reason that we have 2 types of lists is backward compatibility. Obviously, in context, one will make semantic sense more than the other. I guess it would be too much of a special case to restrict the values depending on element. It does raise an interesting question of quite how browsers should handle decimal on an unordered list. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] hovering over hyperlink makes div move in IE6 (like its parents padding gets cut in half suddenly)
Arian Hojat wrote: Here is a theme I am messing with... http://www.arianhojat.com/temp/css_test/test.html You can see when you hover over Home breadcrumb, that it expands the div ( the parent container has 5% padding, and it seems to get cut in half when hovering over hyperlink). i set a zoom:1 on the .breadcrumb to stop the h2 above it from moving too, but setting zoom:1 on hyperlink doesn't do the same for that. Anyone know what IE bug I have? Percentage on paddings triggers one of these absurd IE bugs where the fix leads to the next bug. See The Janus-faced padding http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/percentages.html better don't use percentage paddings at all. At least, don't change backgrounds (or similar) on hover. Ingo -- http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html http://www.dolphinsback.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Ordered and Unordered Lists
Doug Jolley wrote: I just noticed that apparently the full spectrum of list-style-types apply equally to both ordered lists and unordered lists. Right. In rendering, ol and ul differ just on the default value (as per a browser style sheet, real or fictional) for the list-style-type property. Theoretically, they might have other default differences as well, but I haven't encountered any. So, ordered lists can have a list-style-type of disc and unordered lists can have a list-style-type of decimal. Yes. Does anyone see any reason why ALL list-style-types can't be applied to both ordered and unordered lists? Pardon? You just said in the first statement that they can. I guess the only reason that we have 2 types of lists is backward compatibility. It's part of the history of HTML, not CSS, and it has some justification, since the difference between ol and ul can be regarded as structural, in some sense at least. As a more practical point, when CSS support is off, ol will appear (probably) with numbers and ul with bullets, so it makes difference which one you have used. One reason to switch off CSS support is that many pages look better that way, or at least more readable. Another reason to turn off _author_ style sheets is that special rendering situations, like very small displays, may require special browser or user style sheets, and in practice you might then need to switch off all or most of author styling. -- Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
- Original Message -
From: Michael Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:01:19 -0600
Came this utterance fomulated by Peter Hyde-Smith to my mailbox:
[snip]
IMO, you've got a ton of CSS; maybe want to more distinctly separate
basic layout CSS from fiddley-bits. Also, recommend setting font-size
in % instead of fixed pixels, for browser friendly resizing.
Hence, Michael's erudite response...
Setting all font sizes in % is not recommended. nested table cells,
paragraphs, lists or blockquotes inherit their font size then apply the
percent again, so you can get 66% of 66% or 44% as a result.
Michael:
I should have been more specific. From an accessibilty/usibilty standpoint
this delcaration of Bill's CSS
http://www.shopkeepers-r.us/stylesheets/application.css?1225143428,
body, p, ol, ul, td {
font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 13px;
line-height: 18px;
}
may be better served in part,
body{font: 100%/1.4 verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;}
with child elements served in ems (or just left alone). I've been down the
road of nested %'s. It's confusing and ugly.
Peter
www.fatpawdesign.com
developing in: WinXP/SP2 + FF3.0.3 at 1024x768 and 1280x1024
checking in: IE8.0beta/O9.61/Av11.6/Cr0.2/Orca1.1
In God we trust, all else bring data...
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Re: [css-d] CSS tables
Kenoli Oleari wrote: ... The Sitepoint book proposes beginning to move away from IE 67, offering several strategies for doing this, all with the goal of pushing people to upgrade to IE8. It suggests that this is the beginning of a new cycle that will push CSS and site design to a new level eventually and sooner if there is a new press toward conforming to an improving CSS standards. Sometimes designers and developers believe they could push users to do this or that, but I don't believe that this imagination of power will significantly change a lot. To me, it is more likely to get workarounds for old browsers than installations of new ones. This will slow down new inventions a bit - which is good, since the conforming browsers are not as free of bugs as some may believe. Ingo -- http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html http://www.dolphinsback.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] CSS tables
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Ingo Chao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This will slow down new inventions a bit - which is good What? Restricting innovation is never ever good. Ever. This is why the development community has been bashing IE on the head with a frying pan for as long as I can remember. IMO it's the environment slowing us down, not the tools. -- Blake Haswell http://www.blakehaswell.com/ | http://blakehaswell.wordpress.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] CSS help - IE problems
Hi All, Looking at trying to find a solution to my site (www.alsfitt.com) which when viewed in IE it is much lager than in the gecko browsers. The main CSS file is at www.alsfitt.com/css/alz.css and there are two IE CSS files www.alsfitt/com/css/als-ie.css and www.alsfitt/com/css/als-ie7.css . Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers! Al Kendall __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Suggestion
MEM wrote: But, I have no problems about bottom and top post. I don't think David was necessarily focusing on _your_ problems, Marcio. I kind of can organize things around here, and have it all on one single client, from meetings, to notes, to several e-mail accounts, all in one front-office that is not ugly I mean, not properly design, I mean, not easy to find what we want for, as google is. I'm not sure what any of that means. and you too can join us in enjoying and helping to keep this list well organized That's why I have suggested the newsgroup. :p I liken this to suggesting that we help people remember the names of all fifty United States by rearranging geographically into alphabetical order. The just as it is is not my way of thinking. Sorry. At least will never be without a proper reason for doing so. ;) I can understand this to some extent: You're saying that just because something has always been one way doesn't mean that's the right way. I think David is saying, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have to agree with David. So, I don't get why is Email much more convenient. Convenient is subject to opinion. Newsgroups are no more organized than email I disagree. Knew ya would. On a newsgroup you can easily search old posts/replys/e-mails. Here http://lists.css-discuss.org/mailman/private/css-d/ , you cannot do this, or at least, I don't know a easy way for doing it. Go here: http://css-discuss.markmail.org/ On a newsgroup you don't need this rules: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic . :) I can't imagine that's true. I can't imagine any place in the world where that could possibly be true. I need an OffTopic filter even when I'm riding the bus...and more frequently at family gatherings. So... I have to insist on the newsgroup think if no one can give me the right reasons why is a mailing list better then a newsgroup. (In case you haven't notice, I believe it isn't btw. ;) I'm not sure you've given any reasons why a newsgroup is better than a mailing list, either, but I'm also not going to lose sleep trying to convince you. You're pretty clearly set on having a newsgroup and I think it's a great idea. Let us know how to register for it once you get it going. Just my tooth sense. Bill -- ~~~ Bill Brown, MacNimble.com :: From dot concept to dot com since 1999 WebDevelopedia.com, TheHolierGrail.com, Cyber-Sandbox.com, Anytowne.com The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. -- Albert Einstein ~~~ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] The 1 px terror - Help.
MEM wrote:
Gunlaug Sørtun Wrote:
When you don't declare font-size and/or line-height, all browsers
will use their own default values.
I see... so it's default BUT we have to give him same values so he
can't default by himself. And since there isn't any update list of
what properties the browsers use differently by default and what
properties they don't use differently by default, it's a good
practice to declare all by ourselves. - Please tell me this is
correct (or don't) :)
It is correct - up to a point :-)
Whether or not to override browser-defaults depends very much on actual
design and personal preferences, and you'll better get some experience
with design and browsers before you start crushing browser-defaults an
mass.
Font-size, line-height, font-family etc, yes, declare those.
Margins, paddings, yes, you may want to declare those too for a few
elements, if/when the defaults and/or default-differences create
design-problems.
Gunlaug Sørtun Wrote:
Actual font-size is always 1em of itself - and also 100% of itself
if that makes it any clearer, and that reflection doesn't change no
matter what the font-size actually is. A pixel on the other hand is
a fixed-size design pixel no matter what, and has no relation
whatsoever to font-size.
So when we choose em instead of pixel we are saying to the browser,
please adapt the font-size according to 1em or 100%.
Not quite, in your case. We're actually telling the browser to adjust
some elements' height to correspond with font-size - whatever the
individual browser actually calculates that font-size to be based on its
own default, or on our declaration if we had included one.
In your case I only declared element 'height' and 'line-height' on the
relevant elements. I left the browser's own default font-size intact, as
I didn't declare any font-size.
What exactly is 1 em or 100%? It could be the exact value of the
font-size, depending on the font we are using. This way we avoid
pixel rounding values, because we know that 100% will always be the
max-height of a letter for example? Is that it?
We think of 'em' as the height of the letter M. Just remember that the
'em' has the same length both vertically and horizontally - it's a
perfect square.
From CSS 2.1:
The font size corresponds to the em square, a concept used in typography.
1em = 100% = em square = font-size.
Now, declare something like...
h1 {font-size: 2em;}
...on...
h1a perfect headline/h1
...and see that the h1 gets rendered at 200% the size of plain text.
However, now you have to keep the concept of 'em' in mind, and
understand that the text inside that h1 is exactly the size of
1em = 100% = em square = font-size of the h1 itself.
So, to downsize the text in a span in that h1, you declare...
h1 span {font-size: .5em;}
...on...
h1a perfect headline spanwith a span/span/h1
Applying the concept, the text in the span is exactly the size of
1em = 100% = em square = font-size of the span itself.
Too many up- and down-sizings may make it difficult for you to keep
track of how large an 'em' actually is and which font-size on which
element controls what, but browsers won't have problems calculating it.
Best not stray far from browsers' default and/or declare too many
font-sizes though, as rounding-differences will sneak in. Browsers have
to convert 'em' into pixels for every font-size before rendering, and on
average-resolution screens that can result in */- 1 screen-pixel
rendered font-size and/or element-dimensions.
So, don't expect pixel-perfection across browser-land, as you'll only
be disappointed. Each browser on its own will do quite well though, so
you most often won't notice unless you compare their rendering pixel for
pixel.
General advice: declare 'font-size: 100%; line-height: 1.4;' on body,
and then size headlines and paragraphs and other text-carrying elements
based on that font-size - in '%' or 'em'.
The unit-less line-height value makes the line-height 1.4 times the
actual font-size of each element, and levels out any differences in
browser-defaults for that property - defaults generally vary between 1.2
and 1.3 for line-height.
By declaring this you're actually confirming the browsers' default
font-size, and are killing a nasty IE/win em bug in the process. The
reward will be pretty stable and reliable behavior across browser-land.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] The 1 px terror - Help.
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:36:46 + Came this utterance fomulated by MEM to my mailbox: Gunlaug Sørtun Wrote: When you don't declare font-size and/or line-height, all browsers will use their own default values. I see... so it's default BUT we have to give him same values so he can'tdefault by himself. And since there isn't any update list of what properties the browsers use differently by default and what properties they don't use differently by default, it's a good practice to declare all by ourselves. - Please tell me this is correct (or don't) :) This is a philosophical choice. Do i want to control the user experience? versus Do i allow the user to control how they see my website?. The user can overrule practically anything you set anyway, and WCAG recommendations see that as a good thing. http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/fontsize.html http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/ May help you see things differently. -- Michael All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] padding-effect and bumping up font-size
Good evening list, Page: http://www.dzinelabs.com/sandbox/MP/Pages/Contact_success.php Css: http://www.dzinelabs.com/sandbox/MP/Stylesheets/MP.css I've got an image above the footer and because the page doesn't have much filling, unlike some other pages, the distance between it and the footer was real small. The footer sit's outside the container so i thought in my wisdom to create a class with a padding-bottom and apply that to the #content. Worked nicely but upon bumping the font-size up, the effect of the padding disappeared. And i can't understand why. Could somebody enlighten me? -- Best regards, Luc Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.0.18 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 2 and using the best browser: Opera. I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900). __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
Hi Bill, The body width is not specified. It is by default 100% of the viewport minus some margin pixels, depending on browser. So on my 1280px wide screen, in Firefox 3, the width of the body was 1264px as by default the body element has margin: 8px; according to Firebug. In IE6 this default is margin: 15px 10px; according to IE Developer Toolbar. Basically there's no need to give it a certain width unless you want a fixed size layout. In your case the problem resides in that those DIVs, that I mentioned about in my previous email, act just like the body element, or any other block element. They try to span 100% of the viewport by default. By positioning them relatively with a large left offset you're pushing them to the right without changing their default width, thus the scrollbar. Here's a little screenshot that shows exactly how one of those DIVs is pushed to the right: http://amenthes.110mb.com/css-d.png Regarding the float. You should make it a try on your design to see how it works. At first it may blow it up completely but it is fundamental to understand floating in CSS. In order to float an element a float:left; or float:right; declaration is all you need, no positioning required. But, as I said, you'll also need a display:inline; for IE6 to behave as expected. Hope that helps. Cheers, Ionut On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Bill Walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ionut, Ionut Gabriel Stan wrote: Bill Walton wrote: I can't figure out why I have a horizontal scroll bar at http://www.shopkeepers-r.us or how to get rid of it. The current plan is for the browser window to be maximized with the screen resolution set at 1024x768. I'd sure appreciate help. Resource pointers that would help me understand why this is happening would _really_ be appreciated. It's because of these elements: #customer_search_form, #walkin_customer_button, #purchase_return_button ...and maybe others. The explanation is that you positioned them relatively with a large left offset but forgot to change them the width value which right now is 100% of the body width - 1264px in FF3. Thank you very much for this. One big question... how / where is the body width specified? I thought it might have to do with body width and went through all the CSS (I think) without finding it. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing? My advice is to float them left instead of positioning them relatively. I'll try this, but I thought that an element had to be positioned relative in _order_ to float it. Wrong? If you float them left, don't forget to also add a display:inline; after the float: left; declaration. It's for Internet Explorer's double margin floating bug[1]. [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/doubled-margin.html The best news is that this _only_ has to be styled for FF ;-) Thanks very much for your help. I appreciate it! Best regards, Bill __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Strange behavior in Firefox
On Nov 5, 2008, at 12:15 AM, wlb wrote:
These button work fine in the latest versions of Safari Explorer,
Opera, and
Chrome on both Windows and Mac, but the latest versions of Firefox
on both
Mac and Win produce long blue and red lines projecting off to the
left side
of the display when they are clicked. It must be a CSS problem, but
I can't
figure out what. I'm surprised since Firefox is supposed to be so
savvy with
CSS.
Here is the URL:
http://www.boletta.com/aau/
That blue/red lines are focussing rings, indicating that the link is
focused; Gecko (Firefox) is well within the spec here,. The outline
wraps around the overflowed area of your link, caused by the negative
text-indent (on #nav li).
[EMAIL PROTECTED] answered
Add this to your style sheet -
*:focus { outline: 0; }*
I assume that asterix at the end of the line is a typing error on your
part…
Anyway, that is not such a bright idea, as it takes away any
indication to keyboard users that the link has been focussed. Unless
you also add other, carefully considered, stylistic indications that
the link has been focussed.
A better solution for that case is to declare:
#nav li a {overflow:hidden}
That will contain the focus ring within the box.
(corrected the obvious typo in the subject of this mail, that may help
people who search the archives)
Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/
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Re: [css-d] Strange behavior in Firefox
Thank you Phillippe. I didn't notice the negative margins on #nav li. - Mustafa __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:19:31 -0600
Came this utterance fomulated by Peter Hyde-Smith to my mailbox:
- Original Message -
From: Michael Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] how to get rid of scroll bar?
On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:01:19 -0600
Came this utterance fomulated by Peter Hyde-Smith to my mailbox:
[snip]
IMO, you've got a ton of CSS; maybe want to more distinctly
separate basic layout CSS from fiddley-bits. Also, recommend setting
font-size in % instead of fixed pixels, for browser friendly
resizing.
Hence, Michael's erudite response...
Setting all font sizes in % is not recommended. nested table cells,
paragraphs, lists or blockquotes inherit their font size then apply
the percent again, so you can get 66% of 66% or 44% as a result.
Michael:
I should have been more specific. From an accessibilty/usibilty
standpoint this delcaration of Bill's CSS
http://www.shopkeepers-r.us/stylesheets/application.css?1225143428,
body, p, ol, ul, td {
font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 13px;
line-height: 18px;
}
may be better served in part,
body{font: 100%/1.4 verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;}
with child elements served in ems (or just left alone). I've been down
the road of nested %'s. It's confusing and ugly.
Which is precisely the way that i do it. The only exception i make is
not using Verdana at 100%. The large x-height can make it look ugly at
'normal' sizes, when it was designed to look good at smaller sizes. Of
course this is subjective.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html
--
Michael
All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well
- Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416
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