Re: [css-d] stretch one div vertically in three column layout
On 25. 8. 2011 21:12, David Laakso wrote: ... i have come to a pretty stable css, when it comes to rendering it with firefox or chrome. but the internet explorer gives me headache and behaves absolutely idiotically :( can you please refresh the page and hint me, what might be wrong, or how could i resolve the issues? i am not going to describe them, i think you will understand the frustration when you see the IE rendering :) thank you all for your time For those among us who suffer from short-term-memory-loss and/or don't have time to look it up: --what is your url? --what versions of IE do you need to hit? ie 6/7 reference: http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ sorry, i forgot to include the links in the e-mail, since thunderbird's threaded view of messages is very convenient :) thank you for that link, it seems very helpful, i'll read it through and let you know if i had any progress. ~A __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] IE6 (was can style sheets be too long?)
Tim Climis wrote: I've been thinking that developing with IE6 in mind is in the past - my experience and data shows that people using IE/Windows have left IE6. Windows has been diligent in including browser upgrades as part of its important software updates. Are people seeing data contraire to this? It depends on your audience. I work primarily with international students, so the 30% of China, and the 17% of South Korea still using IE6 is a major concern. It may not be for your purposes. My current employer - and the previous employer - use IE6 as their official corporate browser. The reason the current employer uses it? High end mission critical enterprise web apps that work only with IE6. Replacing the apps would cost millions of dollars or more, not worth it for the relatively-little gain of using IE7/8. (Can't move to IE9, current employer is also still standardized on Windows XP, rejected Vista completely, and as far as I know isn't doing anything about migrating to Windows 7.) And don't raise the security issue; I've answered that in other posts. Things don't change fast in the corporate world! -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Off-topic : was IE6 (was can style sheets be too long?)
bruce.som...@web.de wrote: My current employer - and the previous employer - use IE6 as their official corporate browser. The reason the current employer uses it? High end mission critical enterprise web apps that work only with IE6. Replacing the apps would cost millions of dollars or more, not worth it for the relatively-little gain of using IE7/8. Is that possible? That would be an extremely grave lapsus. ... apps that work only with IE6! Did the developers assume that IE6 would be available from now to eternity? If, at the time of development, no more recent version of IE than IE6 was available, then they may have had little alternative, IMHO. Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Off-topic : was IE6, IE7, IE8, IE9
On 26/08/2011 7:39 PM, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: If, at the time of development, no more recent version of IE than IE6 was available, then they may have had little alternative, IMHO. Philip Taylor Very true and off-topic. This debate will also apply to IE7, IE8 and IE9 and could be flame war material for another 10 years. MS itself is doing it best to rid the world of Internet Exploder (IE7-). IE became CSS2.1 compliant with IE8 and finally IE supported a fair bit of CSS3 with CSS3 selectors, CSS3 background and borders, CSS3 color and many other CSS3 modules with IE9 bringing IE on par with other web browsers. IE10 will have much the same support as WebKit and Gecko. Opera is going to be the browser that is behind the pack. Progress can only happen when we (a web community involving users, authors and etc.) are willing to let go of the old. BTW, this debate is off-topic as Philip has indicated. I do not expect any replies to this email since this thread has nothing to do with *can style sheets be too long*. -- Alan Gresley http://css-3d.org/ http://css-class.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] IE6 and wirting-mode
On 26/08/2011 7:55 AM, Tim Climis wrote: It depends on your audience. I work primarily with international students, so the 30% of China, and the 17% of South Korea still using IE6 is a major concern. It may not be for your purposes. ---Tim There may be a very good reason for this. Please view this test in IE6. http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/kanji-test2-extra.htm Uu-prefixed vertical writing-mode has been supported by IE6 for 10 years now. Chinese, Japanese and Korean all have vertical writing modes. -- Alan Gresley http://css-3d.org/ http://css-class.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Off-topic : was IE6 (was can style sheets be too long?)
If, at the time of development, no more recent version of IE than IE6 was available, then they may have had little alternative, IMHO. Philip Taylor One can support IE without making use of proprietary features available only with IE. That's never a good idea. Bruce __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Off-topic : was IE6 (was can style sheets be too long?)
On Friday, August 26, 2011, 12:15:48 PM, bruce.som...@web.de wrote: One can support IE without making use of proprietary features available only with IE. That's never a good idea. While that's easy to say with hindsight, it wasn't so readily apparent at the time and many of us produced applications that: 1. for various reasons, we were commissioned to produce that way; and 2. we had no good argument to counter our customer's requests to do so. For example, 'back in the day' I produced several applications that used the Table of Contents (TOC) interface of Microsoft's HTML Help engine. Microsoft extolled its virtues at the time (mid 1990s) and waxed lyrical about how it could be used for so much more than just Help. At the time, they gave examples of its use in general websites and encouraged us to use it that way. In its favour, it was a quick and easy way to produce 'drill down' interfaces for 'Microsoft-only shops'. Despite my warnings that the application would depend on MSIE (which was 3.x at the time IIRC), the added costs associated with the alternatives made using the HTML Help engine very attractive. Besides, 32-bit Windows was new-ish and we had no reason to suspect that Microsoft would withdraw legacy support in the foreseeable future. All was well until Microsoft discovered a security flaw in the HTML Help engine. Rather than address the actual issue, they elected to hobble the HTML Help engine so that it could no longer be used 'out of the box' over a network. My applications stopped working without warning as customers' machines were automatically updated. There was a fix -- albeit one that involved Registry-burglary -- and I was able to get my customers back up and running... ... until Microsoft discovered yet another security flaw in the HTML Help engine and, once again, rather than address the actual issue they elected to hobble it. Again my applications stopped working without warning. There was another fix that involved yet more Registry- burglary, and so I was again able to get my customers back up and running... ... until IE7 came along when the fixes no longer worked. As some of the applications were mission-critical, customers had no option but to roll back the machines where IE7 had been installed and were obliged to remain on IE6 until the TOC interface of the HTML Help engine could be replaced. Although I wasn't obliged to do so, I wrote a Javascript-based replacement and applied it free of charge to preserve good will. Thankfully, I'd encapsulated the HTML Help stuff, and so it was feasible to do this. Had I coded more openly, my customers could well have been in the position that David describes. Having been there, I can well understand the issue that David highlights and would not be as quick as you to blame the developers as the true problem IMO is that Microsoft 'changed the goalposts' and without warning removed features they'd previously encouraged us to use. With all that said, this is on topic for CSS discussion IMO as it highlights a very good reason to consider support for IE6 for some time yet. -- Geoff __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] IE6 almost standard mode and quirks mode
On 26/08/2011 10:02 PM, Geoff Lane wrote: On Friday, August 26, 2011, 12:15:48 PM, bruce.som...@web.de wrote: One can support IE without making use of proprietary features available only with IE. That's never a good idea. While that's easy to say with hindsight, it wasn't so readily apparent at the time and many of us produced applications that: 1. for various reasons, we were commissioned to produce that way; and 2. we had no good argument to counter our customer's requests to do so. [snip] With all that said, this is on topic for CSS discussion IMO as it highlights a very good reason to consider support for IE6 for some time yet. What mode was IE6 in? Almost standards mode or quirks mode (like IE5)? http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/ -- Alan Gresley http://css-3d.org/ http://css-class.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] h1 replacement -- which one is recommended?
I've been looking all over websites -- a lot of good h1 replacement suggestions. But which one is more practical, validated in all aspects i.e. bobby approved, html5, etc? __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Off-topic : h1 replacement -- which one is recommended?
Scott Hamm wrote: I've been looking all over websites -- a lot of good h1 replacement suggestions. But which one is more practical, validated in all aspects i.e. bobby approved, html5, etc? H1 is HTML, not CSS, but that said, why might anyone want to replace it ? Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] can style sheets be too long?
Nice! And thanks Tim for the clarification, I'll definitely be incorporating that syntax in future projects. Kevin On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 6:06 PM, John j...@coffeeonmars.com wrote: On Aug 25, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Kevin A. Cameron wrote: +1 for the OOCSS mentality...Start with a base class that defines the most common use, then use additional classes in conjunction with the base class to define the variations. this is working *very* well for me, both solving problems and giving me flexibility at the same time. I re-named my styles improving their descriptiveness and with CamelCase, the whole thing much easier to read and make sense of. J __**__**__ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/**mailman/listinfo/css-dhttp://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.**com/http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/**policies.htmlhttp://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_**support_evolt/http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Off-topic : h1 replacement -- which one is recommended?
I'm guessing this is referring to replacing text with a (background) image..? Kevin On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk wrote: Scott Hamm wrote: I've been looking all over websites -- a lot of good h1 replacement suggestions. But which one is more practical, validated in all aspects i.e. bobby approved, html5, etc? H1 is HTML, not CSS, but that said, why might anyone want to replace it ? Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] can style sheets be too long?
I'll probably be throwing them up online for testing soon, and I know I'll have issues/questions. I'm going to flag your email to me so that I can alert you when they're up, if that works. J On Aug 26, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Ted Rolle Jr. wrote: John, would you be willing to post or e-mail them for study? Ted On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Kevin A. Cameron kevinacame...@gmail.com wrote: Nice! And thanks Tim for the clarification, I'll definitely be incorporating that syntax in future projects. Kevin On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 6:06 PM, John j...@coffeeonmars.com wrote: On Aug 25, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Kevin A. Cameron wrote: +1 for the OOCSS mentality...Start with a base class that defines the most common use, then use additional classes in conjunction with the base class to define the variations. this is working *very* well for me, both solving problems and giving me flexibility at the same time. I re-named my styles improving their descriptiveness and with CamelCase, the whole thing much easier to read and make sense of. John __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
http://coffeeonmars.com/testing/Dev_index.html http://coffeeonmars.com/testing/Dev_WPR_A.html These two pages ^ are nearly identical, except that the second one has an image placed into it with a div tag, and that seems to be causing the second page to sprout a horizontal scroll bar! removing the image makes the scroll bar go away. I have compared both pages' code side by side but I just can't see what I did wrong here. My only guess is in *how* I placed that graphic..somehow it messed up the hierarchy, or broke something to do with overflow. Can anyone shine a light on it? thank you, John __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On Aug 26, 2011, at 2:20 PM, John wrote: http://coffeeonmars.com/testing/Dev_index.html http://coffeeonmars.com/testing/Dev_WPR_A.html These two pages ^ are nearly identical, except that the second one has an image placed into it with a div tag, and that seems to be causing the second page to sprout a horizontal scroll bar! I've continued to experiment with the code, of course, and began to suspect my position:absolute maybe only 1 thing can be absolute, or maybe this instance is fighting something else. I changed it to: position: fixed; and that got rid of the scrollbar, but is my change the actual fix? thanks! J __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On Aug 26, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Angela French wrote: It's dependent on the size of my browser instance. If I spread it out a smidge bigger than my 19 monitor, it goes away. I don't believe you can control for that. Right. so, if it's smaller than 1024, scrollbar no mystery. But I'm getting a scroll bar on WPR_A even when the window is open wider. My earlier fix that I posted was an illusion.. something about WPR_A that makes the content independent from the center bar (light tan) containing it. continuing to examine the code here... J __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
I stripped out all of the attributes of the image's div tag (which
included width and height!) and kept only:
{
display: block;
margin: 20px 0 0 160px;
}
and that seems to have fixed it..still testing and trying to break it
and shakier on my feeble coding chops.
any thoughts?
J
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Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On Aug 26, 2011, at 2:55 PM, John wrote:
I stripped out all of the attributes of the image's div tag (which
included width and height!) and kept only:
{
display: block;
margin: 20px 0 0 160px;
}
and that seems to have fixed it..still testing and trying to break
it and shakier on my feeble coding chops.
that wasn't the fix either. seems if I put the image in there
anywhere, div or not, it makes the browser sprout a scroll bar, or
more accurately, makes the center content separate from the center
COLUMN.
I just don't get this.
J
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Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On 8/26/11 5:55 PM, John wrote:
I stripped out all of the attributes of the image's div tag (which
included width and height!) and kept only:
{
display: block;
margin: 20px 0 0 160px;
}
and that seems to have fixed it..still testing and trying to break it
and shakier on my feeble coding chops.
any thoughts?
J
Try positioing all your stuff /without/ using position:absolute; or
position: relative;. Margins will do. Padding when needed. Float left or
right if margin left or right won't work. Stress test: press and hold
apple; keep banging the + key until the type won't get any bigger.
#WPR_Image_A {
display:block;
width:699px;
height:408px;
margin: 20px auto;
border: 1px solid red/4 position only*/;
}
Best,
someyoungguy
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Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why? [ec]
Error Correction
#WPR_Image_A {
border: 1px solid red/*4 position only*/;
}
Best,
someyoungguy
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Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On Aug 26, 2011, at 3:27 PM, David Laakso wrote:
Try positioing all your stuff /without/ using position:absolute; or
position: relative;. Margins will do. Padding when needed. Float
left or right if margin left or right won't work. Stress test:
press and hold apple; keep banging the + key until the type won't
get any bigger.
#WPR_Image_A {
display:block;
width:699px;
height:408px;
margin: 20px auto;
border: 1px solid red/4 position only*/;
}
thank you, David...I am working through my documents to make these
changes you advise. I am not sure where, but somebody said that
position: was the way to go...
one of these days, I will know what I'm doing with this stuff...
working.
J
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Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On 8/26/11 7:37 PM, John wrote: one of these days, I will know what I'm doing with this stuff... working. J Keep it lean. Keep it mean; Keep it simple. Keep at it! Best, someyoungguy __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
Hi John,
I think here's the problem:
#WPR_Image_A {
position: absolute;
top: 210px;
left: 160px;
z-index: 70;
height: 100px;
width: 1024px;
display: block;
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
You're setting a 1024px width to that element, then, because of the
position:absolute adding the left 160px is using 1024px +160px, and since the
container is set to a 1024px witdth you see the scroll bar.
An easy fix will be to set the width of #WPR_Image_A to 864px (1024-160).
Hope that helps.
On Aug 26, 2011, at 4:20 PM, John wrote:
http://coffeeonmars.com/testing/Dev_index.html
http://coffeeonmars.com/testing/Dev_WPR_A.html
These two pages ^ are nearly identical, except that the second one has
an image placed into it with a div tag, and that seems to be causing the
second page to sprout a horizontal scroll bar!
removing the image makes the scroll bar go away. I have compared both pages'
code side by side but I just can't see what I did wrong here.
My only guess is in *how* I placed that graphic..somehow it messed up the
hierarchy, or broke something to do with overflow.
Can anyone shine a light on it?
thank you,
John
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Germán Martínez, UX Designer
http://martinez.pe
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Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On Aug 26, 2011, at 6:12 PM, Germán Martínez wrote: You're setting a 1024px width to that element, then, because of the position:absolute adding the left 160px is using 1024px +160px, and since the container is set to a 1024px witdth you see the scroll bar. An easy fix will be to set the width of #WPR_Image_A to 864px (1024-160). I took a look at that, too, and messing with it seemed to help; yet do you also feel I shouldn't have position: as one of the attributes? thank you, Germán John __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
- Original Message -
From: John j...@coffeeonmars.com
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On Aug 26, 2011, at 3:27 PM, David Laakso wrote:
Try positioing all your stuff /without/ using position:absolute; or
position: relative;. Margins will do. Padding when needed. Float left or
right if margin left or right won't work. Stress test: press and hold
apple; keep banging the + key until the type won't get any bigger.
#WPR_Image_A {
display:block;
width:699px;
height:408px;
margin: 20px auto;
border: 1px solid red/4 position only*/;
}
thank you, David...I am working through my documents to make these
changes you advise. I am not sure where, but somebody said that position:
was the way to go...
Yep, position is the way to go...
... nuts.
If you're after cross-browser inconsistency, inaccessibility to
vision-impaired users, and subtle, difficult to track down display issues,
the CSS position attribute's your boy. Otherwise, margins, padding, float,
and clear will do 99.9% of the positioning you'll need to do in a static
site. The only place in any of my stuff I've needed absolute positioning was
in dropdown/flyout menus, and occasionally when animating, which I do
rarely. Otherwise, the CSS position property appears nowhere in my work.
cheers,
scott
If you don't understand the CSS position property, you don't need it. If
you did understand the CSS position property, you wouldn't use it. -- _Ronx
(Ron Symonds)
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Re: [css-d] two similar pages; one scrolls. Why?
On 27.08.2011 01:37, John wrote:
[...] I am not sure where, but somebody said that position: was the
way to go...
Position is fine ... once you master the various variants and all
combinations.
one of these days, I will know what I'm doing with this stuff...
I am sure you will. Until then, and maybe even after, try adding a
test-style like the following while designing...
* {outline:red solid 1px;}
...so you know what space the various elements occupy. Much easier to
tune any layout then, and the test-style is easy to find and remove once
you are happy with your design.
regards
Georg
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